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Sunday Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Sun Oct 11, 2015 at 06:02:16 PM EST
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Comcast is simply impossible to deal with. I've had no internet from Thursday when I moved to late yesterday. Every excuse in the book for not being able to transfer service, hours wasted on the phone, techs who never call back despite promises to do so. A special raspberry to Shawn and Elisha (Alicia or Alisha?) in Seattle and Vince in the Philippines. Worthless, all. I ended up going to the Comcast store late yesterday afternoon and Brandi C. spent an hour doing various things and setting up a fourth account for me and said all I had to do was go home and activate it. She was very close to fixing it, only it wouldn't activate, and I spent another hour or two on the phone with two to three more people, and the last one did something that finally allowed me to activate it. Unfortunately, I didn't write her name down.

Here's a new open thread, all topics welcome.

PS Now that Comcast is back on, it works great. The internet is really fast and the X1 service is an improvement. I have phone service but it's not my phone number -- they haven't figured out to restore my number yet.

Tonight on TV: Homeland, the Good Wife and El Nino Santo. Am I missing anything?

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    Sunday Open Thread | 202 comments (202 topical)
    Welcome back (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by fishcamp on Sun Oct 11, 2015 at 06:29:47 PM EST
    Sorry to hear about the problems.  We will all be splendid bloggers while you're working.  Don't burn out.  Come on down for a boat drink at a tiki bar. (-:   And the bonefish are back since the water cooled.

    Ben Carson: Pompeii Victims Could Have Outrun Lava (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by Mr Natural on Sun Oct 11, 2015 at 07:50:04 PM EST
    "Archeologists estimate that the population of Pompeii was about eleven thousand," he said. "You can't tell me that if eleven thousand people put their minds to it they couldn't beat one volcano."

    (Borowitz)

    Carson delivers stupidity (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by Repack Rider on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 04:56:47 AM EST
    ...in measured, even, reassuring tones.  

    It could almost lull you to sleep, if you didn't actually listen to what he is saying.  The words, they have meaning.  Carson will say anything, even though he apparently doesn't KNOW anything.

    He has no sense of how people react to his insensitivity to ordinary behavior.  He is not going to get much mileage out of his hypothetical bravery and leadership if he were ever in such a situation, contrasted by his anecdotal tales of chicken-shack douchebaggery, don't shoot me, shoot HIM.

    Carson, JEB! and Kevin McCarthy make me long for the days of George W. Bush's gift for stirring oratory.

    Carson's amazing ignorance is not limited to how the world works, he also seems to know nothing about the government he wants to take charge of.  The Constitution is a mystery to Carson.  He's like someone who doesn't know the rules of baseball, never played in a game, never even went to a game, but wants to play center field in the World Series.

    Parent

    Ben Carson (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by KeysDan on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 11:23:00 AM EST
    is both a good surgeon(just OK, according to Trump) and a fool.   It is not uncommon.

    Yesterday, at a megachurch in Gainesville, GA, the seventh day adventist, Ben Carson, told the Church-goers that he would place God at the Center of politics and culture.

     We are, after all, a Christian nation     since the founders put "In God We Trust" in the Pledge of Allegiance, on coins and paper money, and in Court Houses.

     His history is a little off, unless you consider President Eisenhower a founding father.  The Pledge was written by the socialist, Edward Bellamy, in 1892, adopted by Congress in 1945, and "In God We Trust" added in 1954.

     Other historical facts (of, course who cares about those) belie his historical accuracy. But, the coins and paper money, perhaps, show that God wants us to buy his book, "A More Perfect Union," which he was pushing at the megachurch.

    Parent

    "In God We Trust" is not in the Pledge (5.00 / 4) (#45)
    by Peter G on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 12:41:19 PM EST
    at all. Maybe Carson doesn't know the Pledge. What was added in 1954, in an anti-communist pander by Congress, was "under God."  And we are not, and never have been, a "Christian nation." Article VI, Clause 3, of the Constitution belies it, among many other authoritative sources. That is one of the biggest historical lies of the Right.

    Parent
    I may have, (none / 0) (#59)
    by KeysDan on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 02:02:36 PM EST
     "misunderestimated", to use a phrase of George W. Bush, Ben Carson.  He did get the "under God"  for the Pledge; the "In God We Trust" he saved for the other parts of his misinformation. My regrets, but not to Carson.  

    Parent
    Gramov greets the Jews! (1.67 / 3) (#8)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 08:47:25 AM EST
    TUVIA
    We belong to the Bielski otriad.

    GRAMOV
    We know of you. Jewish bandits.
    Zus's finger tightens on the trigger of his submachine gun.

    ZUS
    I'll take the two on the left...
    Tuvia maintains his composure.

    TUVIA
    I'm sure we can clear up this
    misunderstanding with your commander.

    Parent

    Go away. We do not need to read (5.00 / 3) (#10)
    by Anne on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 09:21:11 AM EST
    Hollywood scripts, so stop posting links to them.  

    Parent
    to the rescue (1.00 / 3) (#11)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 09:21:17 AM EST
    to the rescue . . .

    Parent
    the clip here (1.00 / 3) (#12)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 09:21:55 AM EST
    the clip here

    Parent
    Yes well . . . (none / 0) (#7)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 08:31:48 AM EST
    Treblinka or uprising . . .

    Parent
    Ben Carson's crackpot ideas are going to (4.80 / 5) (#9)
    by Anne on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 09:17:51 AM EST
    end up getting people killed.  There are people who've been listening to Carson's illogical and magical flights of fancy who are going to act on his irresponsible advice to charge at someone with a gun, and it's not going to save anyone's life - it's just going to add to the body count.

    And it won't be an act of selfless heroism, it will be an act of colossal stupidity.

    Which reminds me, Daniel Craig and Hollywood notwithstanding, Carson's efforts to blame gun control for the Holocaust, and Jews for their own failure to rise up against Hitler is both disturbing and abhorrent.  Not to mention historically inaccurate.

    This is a dangerous man who should be kept as far from elective office as possible.

    Parent

    anne, you fit this perfectly (1.50 / 2) (#14)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 09:49:11 AM EST
    "Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accept the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay-and claims a halo for his dishonesty." - Robert Heinlein


    Parent
    A shifty doctrine.. (5.00 / 3) (#15)
    by jondee on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 10:08:25 AM EST
    like one embraced by chickenhawks who've avoided the front lines all their lives.

    Parent
    One embraced, as well, by (5.00 / 2) (#31)
    by Zorba on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 11:23:25 AM EST
    commenters who frequently fall back on quotes from Robert Heinlein.

    Parent
    So, now you've decided I'm a pacifist? (5.00 / 3) (#19)
    by Anne on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 10:37:31 AM EST
    Why?  Because I said it was irresponsible for Ben Carson to be saying that in confrontations with armed individuals, we should rush at them?  

    Or because I said Carson's grasp of history, specifically the Holocaust, is not accurate?

    Was it because I objected to Carson putting the blame for the millions who died in the Holocaust on gun control, and Jews not willing to take up arms against the Nazis?

    I think you may be one of the last people who should be lecturing anyone on any subject involving honesty.

    But I have no doubt you will be joining Carson in his magical thinking, not least because Carson's making it possible for people like you to openly express your bigotry.

    Parent

    I guess (5.00 / 3) (#22)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 10:44:34 AM EST
    Carson and his ilk have never heard about the Warsaw Ghetto uprising.

    They are so entirely stupid. They want the military to have all the tools and ammo and machinery to their heart's limit but somehow think guns would win against the military. The stupid burns.

    Parent

    Just Think... (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 10:53:26 AM EST
    ...Iraq might have been the cake walk the right promised us, had they not had so damn many guns.  

    Joke.

    Parent

    Carson and his ilk (none / 0) (#64)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 03:44:51 PM EST
    Carson maybe and some of his ilk at times watch TV . . .

    and because they or "we" watch TV, they or we saw the movie about the Warsaw ghetto uprising that was shown on TV several years ago . . .

    and although they or we know there are fictions and truth in movies, they or we realize that the movie was based on actual events . . . at least in part.

    Did Carson goof by saying that the Holocaust would have been greatly diminished if more of the Jews had had guns or there had not been gun control in certain areas?   I don't know . . .  I assume he was exaggerating . . .  We could presume that we will exclude Germany and Austria, and consider Jews in France, Belgium, Holland and the USSR and other areas.

    I don't know how things would have gone if more of them had been armed . . . but it seems that one reason Hitler did not invade/attack Switzerland was that the whole population is supposed to be armed and trained at least somewhat . . .  Or, at least, I believe I have read or heard that . . .

    The other question is, If nearly every Frenchman or nearly every Pole had been armed before 1939, and if the gov of their countries had surrendered as they did in 39 and 40, would the arms in the hands of the general populace of Poland or France made a positive difference in discouraging the Nazis?

    I somewhat think that on June 6, 1944, that a whole lot of guns in the hands of the people of France would have contributed to saving some American lives for the next few weeks and killing some Nazis that month.  Maybe it would have saved us a few days on our trip to Berlin.

    If we and the Russians got to Berlin quicker than in April of 45, then, that might have saved persons in the gas chambers of Aushwitz, where 2000 could be killed in a moment in the gas chambers . . .

    Parent

    What if Eleanor Roosevelt could fly? (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by Anne on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 05:04:41 PM EST
    You are engaging in a counterfactual argument based on magical thinking and fantasy, I guess because you find it entertaining, but that is not why Carson is making that argument.

    Aside from playing fast and loose with history, these arguments also end up blaming the Jewish people for their own demise.

    Can you just stop now?  This wasn't a "goof" by Carson - he's written about it and talked about it enough that it's clear he actually believes this stuff.

    You want to sign onto that?  Knock yourself out; I don't think it's coming as any surprise to anyone that you are intrigued by Carson and his crackpot ideas.

    Parent

    O.M.G.! Really? (5.00 / 3) (#71)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 06:35:27 PM EST
    zaitz: "I somewhat think that on June 6, 1944, that a whole lot of guns in the hands of the people of France would have contributed to saving some American lives for the next few weeks and killing some Nazis that month.  Maybe it would have saved us a few days on our trip to Berlin."

    What an incredibly ignorant and stupid thing to opine! Here's a sample of the fate which awaited the loved ones of those in France who resisted the German occupation:

    "Werner C. was part of the 3rd Company of the 1st Battalion of the 'Der Fuehrer' regiment of the fanatical SS's 'Das Reich' division. Four days after the June 6, 1944, D-Day landings in Normandy the company attacked Oradour-sur-Glane in reprisal for the French Resistance's kidnapping of a German soldier. The troops herded the civilians into barns and into the church, blocked the doors and then set fire to the entire town. Those not killed in the blazes were shot as they tried to flee, though a handful managed to escape."

    All told, 642 civilians in Oradour-sur-Glane were slaughtered in reprisal for the kidnapping of one single German soldier by French resistance fighters.

    Also, you absolutely fail to consider the fact that not everyone in France during the period of 1940-44 was necessarily opposed to the German cause. In fact, the very first shots fired by U.S. troops and sailors in the Nov. 8, 1942 invasion of North Africa were not against Germans, but rather at those French troops who were loyal to the Marshal Henri Petain's fascist puppet regime in Vichy.

    In the Battle of Casablanca, four U.S. troop transports and over 150 landing craft sunk were sunk by heavy French naval and artillery gunfire during the landings, which were nevertheless completed successfully, albeit at a cost of 479 American and 1,344 French lives. Further, another 163 U.S. sailors were killed in the corresponding naval battle off the Moroccan capital, as were 462 French sailors.

    French resistance to the Allied invasion ended only when Adolf Hitler ordered German forces to occupy Vichy France militarily on Nov. 15-16, 1942. Convinced that the Vichy regime had been effectively removed from power and that Petain was a German prisoner, the French military commander in North Africa, Admiral François Darlan, declared himself the effective head of state and then switched sides, ordering all French forces to lay down their arms and cooperate with Allied forces.

    (Less than six weeks later on Dec. 24, 1942, Adm. Darlan was himself assassinated at his HQ in Algiers by a delusional 20-year-old French royalist who believed that the admiral's removal would hasten an eventual restoration of the former Bourbon monarchy in Paris. The assassin was immediately arrested; tried and convicted of Darlan's murder by military tribunal the very next day and sentenced to death, and then shot by firing squad on the morning of Dec. 26.)

    So, what Anne said. Can you please just stop now, before you embarrass yourself any further with such mindless and unsubstantiated contentions?

    Aloha.

    Parent

    As best we have been able to determine (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by Peter G on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 08:53:40 PM EST
    at least as many of my wife's French Catholic ancestors/relatives in Alsace died in German camps for their resistance as did my Hungarian Jewish ancestors/relatives.

    Parent
    Thank you, Peter. (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 10:36:57 PM EST
    The nonchalance in which Ben Carson, et al., have been talking about this issue demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding and casual dismissal of history's lessons, not to mention that it's a rather appalling display of insensitivity on their parts.

    My paternal grandmother's youngest brother was an American soldier with the U.S. First Army, who was killed in Europe in early 1945. Further, I had a great aunt by marriage, a German of Jewish descent, who was one of the lucky ones. As a teenager, she and her family managed to bribe their way out of Nazi Germany, escaping first to Antwerp and then to England in Jan. 1939, only two months after Kristallnacht.

    They settled in Cambridge northeast of London, where her father taught school. In 1944 she met my great uncle, who was then stationed with the U.S. 8th Air Force in East Anglia. She emigrated to Southern California after the war to marry him and eventually, the rest of her family was able to join them. While they remained faithful to Judaism, she chose to convert to her husband's Catholic faith.

    The crackpotted notion that Jews and other victims of Nazi atrocities are themselves somehow responsible for the fate which had befallen them is both reprehensible and sickening.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    the French resistance (none / 0) (#90)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 04:00:55 AM EST
    I could be wrong, but it seems that you are suggesting that prior to the American liberation of France, that the French resistance should not have killed or captured any German soldiers, because there would be German reprisals against other innocent French persons and there would be more deaths in comparison to the one German taken or lost.

    Forgive me for being slow and struggling and not understanding everything . . .  You know by the way that Hitler also bombed and killed English civilians . . . and that part of Hitler's war on Britain was bombing and killing English civilians . . .

    Basically, you seem to be suggesting that the French resistance should not have killed or captured or kidnapped Germans, because innocent French would be killed in reprisals, but that English forces should have resisted and fought, though English civilians would be killed in terror bombing reprisals . . .

    What General Weygand has called The Battle of France is over. The battle of Britain is about to begin. Upon this battle depends the survival of Christian civilisation. Upon it depends our own British life and the long continuity of our institutions and our Empire. The whole fury and might of the enemy must very soon be turned on us. Hitler knows that he will have to break us in this island or lose the war. If we can stand up to him, all Europe may be free and the life of the world may move forward into broad, sunlit uplands. But if we fail, then the whole world, including the United States, including all that we have known and cared for, will sink into the abyss of a new Dark Age made more sinister, and perhaps more protracted, by the lights of a perverted science. Let us therefore brace ourselves to our duties, and so bear ourselves that, if the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say, "This was their finest hour".[21][22]

    Parent

    No. We are "suggesting" that (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by Anne on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 06:43:04 AM EST
    Carson's efforts to build an argument against any form of gun control by claiming that gun control was responsible for the Holocaust and Jews were complicit in their own demise is a counterfactual one that depends heavily on magical thinking and illogical fantasy.

    No one is saying resistance efforts should not have been undertaken - but it's clear that resistance does not come without risks.

    What people are saying - what I am saying - is that it is irresponsible and just plain stupid to suggest that in a situation with an active shooter, who may or may not have all his or her mental faculties, those in the cross-hairs should put themselves and others at further risk by confronting the shooter and taking some kind of action.  

    But here's the real problem: you don't seem to function in a world where reality plays much of a role, and it affects your thinking and your logic and even your common sense.  You don't seem to realize that your predilections, provided courtesy of your websites and of which you are clearly quite proud, have, in addition to completely creeping people out, branded you as someone whose thought process and the opinions generated by it cannot be trusted.

    That you apparently share some of Carson's thinking tells me I'm right to be completely creeped out by Carson, too; it's one thing to be the Green Lake Creeper, and quite another to want to be president and be in a position to impose crackpot policies on an entire nation.

    Parent

    re gun control and the holocaust (none / 0) (#95)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 07:30:19 AM EST
    In 1931 the Weimar republic required registration of guns and its officials had warned that they hoped that the list of guns and their owners would not fall into the hands of any extremist groups.  The idea for gun registration was spawned by the public discussion of a Nazi plan to do various evil . . . So the Weimar republic had gun registration.

    That worked out really great . . .

    In and after 1933, in Germany, there were various searches of persons considered unreliable or enemies of the state for weapons.  

    The Gestapo banned independent gun clubs and arrested their leaders.

    Parent

    re the Jewish preference in Warsaw (none / 0) (#106)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 09:20:42 AM EST
    In the Washington Post, David Kopel of the Cato Institute, who teaches advanced constitutional law at the Sturm College of Law at the University of Denver, cited the diaries of Jews who died in the Warsaw Ghetto. They expressed unalloyed joy at being able to kill some of their Nazi tormentors, and deep regret about not having been armed and been able to fight back sooner than they did.

    Parent
    Donald, what Z is pointing out is that if (none / 0) (#112)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 10:20:37 AM EST
    the French had had guns on D Day they would have been more capable in killing Germans and assisting the invasion.

    Pretty simple.

    Would some French people have died.

    Yes.

    But you claim that defending yourself is wrong and that you should wait for someone else to protect you.

    "Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accept the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay-and claims a halo for his dishonesty." - Heinlein

    Parent

    Yep, Jim, it's pretty simple. (none / 0) (#117)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 12:31:44 PM EST
    JimakaPPJ: "[W]hat Z is pointing out is that if the French had had guns on D Day they would have been more capable in killing Germans and assisting the invasion. Pretty simple."

    That simplicity of thought is also incredibly ignorant and stupid, because it has no actual basis in the harsh reality of those times. No doubt, the notion of an occupied France's populace rising up spontaneously against their German oppressors and in concert with invading Allied forces to help liberate themselves is no doubt stirring to one's soul, and further looked great on the big screen in the 1962 film "The Longest Day."

    And that seems to be how "Z" formulated his nonsensical opinions, from watching too many old war movies. Because the historical record very strongly suggests that such fanciful onscreen depictions were often nothing more than wholly fictitious propaganda, and that the actual events didn't unfold according to some Hollywood script and screenwriter's fancy.

    I didn't "claim" anything, so please don't put words into my mouth. I only merely noted, with supporting examples as evidence, that:

    • French resistance to the German occupation of 1940-44 often came with a very high price, in the form of severe reprisals against the civilian population, which quite understandably tended to temper the latter's enthusiasm for such open defiance of German authority; and

    • Opposition to that German authority in France wasn hardly universal or unanimous, because a not-insignificant portion of the French populace actively collaborated with the Germans on any number of matters, whether it be providing labor for the Axis war effort, ridding France of its Jewish residents, or aiding and abetting German opposition to Allied strategic aims.

    Further, an estimated 20,000 French civilians were killed during the Battle of Normandy, having been caught in the crossfire between the invading Allied forces and defending German troops. Another 50,000 or so civilians died as a direct result of Allied air raids on occupied France as a whole in the months and years leading up to Operations Overlord and Anvil and the Allied liberation of that country.

    And the sad truth of the matter is that those acts of liberation aren't necessarily remembered as fondly by the French people themselves as they are by their liberators, because the former suffered grievously from the toll exacted by the devastating Allied bombings and artillery fire.

    Those are the facts, Jim.

    Parent

    The facts are that bad things happen to good (none / 0) (#124)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 01:28:16 PM EST
    people and that it is necessary to defend yourself.

    You are a member of the group that wants the police to come by, count the dead and write reports. And then you want to blather on and on about your family and how the French actually hates the allies for liberating them.

    I doubt that any French Jews had that attitude.

    Enjoy your safety, dear Donald. And may you never have to defend yourself.

    Someone else is doing it for you.

    Parent

    Oh, for the love of Christ! (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 03:24:03 PM EST
    JimakaPPJ: "The facts are that bad things happen to good people and that it is necessary to defend yourself. [...] Enjoy your safety, dear Donald. And may you never have to defend yourself. Someone else is doing it for you."

    Could you possibly be any more friggin' clueless? Hopefully one day, whenever you finally decide to stop channeling Yosemite Sam and Wile E. Coyote, you'll perhaps get it. Until then, I'm sure you'll just keep enjoying the view from Uranus.

    Because while I and others here may well be depending on other people to defend our safety, we can no doubt also rest assured that big-talking chickenhawks like you and your fellow brave souls of the U.S. 101st Parallel Universe Division -- aka "the Fighting Keyboardists" -- most certainly won't be counted amongst their numbers.

    Nope, pathetic little warmongers like you are most always found well to the rear of the action. You're perfectly content to wrap yourselves in the American flag and wave your popguns and pom-poms, all the while urging others forward to smite the heathen in your name and let the Lord sort them out. And then afterward, you'll tell everyone what an absolutely splendid adventure it all was.

    Adios, payaso.

    Parent

    Donald, control yourself. All that frothing at the (none / 0) (#142)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 05:25:52 PM EST
    mouth is gonna ruin your bib.

    I mean, now you are calling me a war monger because I advocate self defense when attacked??

    But I do understand and agree with you:

    Because while I and others here may well be depending on other people to defend our safety...

    I mean yes. Yes you do. And yes. Yes you did.

    BTW, I have still served the country for 10 years. That's 10 more than you.

    I hate to do this but....

    As Gump said, "Stupid is as stupid does."

    lol


    Parent

    How--exactly--did you defend anyone's safety? (none / 0) (#149)
    by shoephone on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 10:52:39 PM EST
    Your Johnny One Note retort "I served in Naval Aviation for ten years!" doesn't mean anything unless you explain what you actually did. And because you have continually refused to explain, no one here believes you did a goll darned thing. We know, for a fact, that you were never in combat. In fact, it's a pretty safe bet that you spent ten years sitting on your butt, pushing paper in a  naval base office, stateside.


    Parent
    shoephone asks "How?" (none / 0) (#153)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Oct 14, 2015 at 07:59:51 AM EST
    By the simple act of serving. I was joined in that act by thousands and thousands of other Americans.

    And whatever I did it was more than you and more than jondee.

    We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
    For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
    Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
    This day shall gentle his condition;
    And gentlemen in England now-a-bed
    Shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here,
    And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
    That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day. -
    -Henry V, Shakespeare


    Parent
    Jim, one's service to one's country (5.00 / 3) (#156)
    by Anne on Wed Oct 14, 2015 at 09:31:11 AM EST
    is not supposed to be a weapon against those who did not serve; in my opinion, when you wear your service like a shield to repel the opinions of others, you cheapen that service.  I don't know anyone, in my family, or in my circle of friends and acquaintances, who uses or has used their military service as a way to devalue and discredit people, but you do that at every opportunity.

    Military service is not the one true test of patriotism; it is not the one and only way to demonstrate a love for one's country.  That isn't even the one and only reason people elect to serve, but you never talk about that, do you?  You never talk about the many, many people who enlist because the military is the only place that's hiring people who may have limited education and even more limited job opportunities.  For you, here, what we get, time and again, are false equivalencies where lack of service equals hatred of the military and lack of respect for the country.  

    As often as you insist that you don't have to prove that you served by describing your role, rank and MOS, those of us who did not enlist for military service, or who were not drafted into it, do not have to defend that or prove that it doesn't mean we hate the military.  

    You can and will think whatever you want, and you'll continue to entertain yourself by pushing people's buttons and putting words in people's mouths and smacking them about the head and shoulders with your military service baton; none of what you do here ever serves to make positive differences in anyone's life.  That's a shame, because the opportunity presents itself every day and you choose a different and ugly path for the purpose of irritating, upsetting and annoying people.

    That is who you are, jim, and no amount of military service redeems the lack of character you present here.


    Parent

    Here's what my response to Donald was (1.00 / 1) (#160)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Oct 14, 2015 at 08:34:13 PM EST
    You are a member of the group that wants the police to come by, count the dead and write reports. And then you want to blather on and on about your family and how the French actually hates the allies for liberating them.

    I doubt that any French Jews had that attitude.

    Enjoy your safety, dear Donald. And may you never have to defend yourself.

    Someone else is doing it for you.

    That remains true.

    And I love how you sneer at those who are defending you.

    You never talk about the many, many people who enlist because the military is the only place that's hiring people who may have limited education and even more limited job opportunities.


    Parent
    No one was sneering, jim. (5.00 / 1) (#172)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 15, 2015 at 10:10:00 AM EST
    Truncating my comment to remove the context is just another of your cheap tricks and no one's being fooled by it.

    My larger point was that you've cheapened whatever service you had by shoving it in people's faces for your own self-aggrandizement; it diminishes your service, and doesn't do much for your overall character, either.

    But trust me, we already had plenty of evidence for that.


    Parent

    anne, let us be honest. (1.00 / 2) (#173)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Oct 15, 2015 at 10:48:18 AM EST
    We both have a visceral dislike for each other. You demonstrate it by not capitalizing my name. I return the favor. You make wild statements based on what you wish  I had said. I return the compliment by quoting you.

    That is a significant difference. But I digress.

    As I noted above, and which I am sure you read, I did not bring up my service. Donald did. I suppose I should not have returned the favor. If you are bothered because I served and point out that fact to people who are claiming that we  should not defend ourselves then you will just have to be bothered. I see it as a significant difference between us and a defining difference in philosophy.

    Now, since you have read the thread, I am sure you are aware that my position is that people should be able to defend themselves. And they should defend themselves. That was the basic point made by Dr. Carson. Since he is black and is off the reservation the Left has launched attack after attack against this very commonsense position.  Donald even claims that people shouldn't have resisted the Nazis because some would be killed.

    So there you are. If this means we will never have a cup of coffee together....I see that as our mutual gain.

    Parent

    You do not capitalize your screen name, (5.00 / 2) (#174)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 15, 2015 at 11:20:56 AM EST
    which I shorten to "jim;" perhaps you are expressing dislike for yourself by not capitalizing it?

    My comments are not about what I wish you had said, they point out where you have misstated what I said; whatever quotes you post are usually truncated to lose the context you don't want them to have.

    There is little Carson has said that falls into the category of "common sense."  His remarks are being "attacked" because they are inaccurate with respect to history, and dangerous in present-day context.

    And Donald made no such claims that people should not have resisted the Nazis; I know that's what you wanted them to say, but that's not what they did say.

    Part of the problem here is that you don't apparently read for comprehension, you read to be able to cherry-pick and manipulate whatever parts of people's comments help you make your (usually illogical or factually incorrect) assertions.

    What bothers me, jim, is dishonesty and manipulation of the facts, which is the only way you apparently can function here.  

    Parent

    anne, jimakaPPJ is a moniker (none / 0) (#180)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Oct 15, 2015 at 09:26:26 PM EST
    not my name. Which you know to be Jim. I restate my comment.  But it is just one of your little digs. perhaps, anne, i should ignore it.

    An exampke. You wrote:

    Military service is not the one true test of patriotism; it is not the one and only way to demonstrate a love for one's country.

    I never said that it was. So you must have wished I had or just made it up. Your choice.

    What I have said, time and again, is that you, Jondee, Donald,et al, did not serve. You depend on others to serve in the military and defend the country. That follows with your belief that people should not have guns. They should wait for the police to protect them.

    anne, if you have to wait for the police to protect you from an attack you will be either dead or severely harmed.

    But I do agree. Dr. Carson's comments re defending yourself is dangerous. But so is standing there and waiting to be killed. Again, your choice.

    And common sense tells me that if 10 people in a normal size room rushes one person with a gun the killer will be taken down. The person on the Oregon college's campus could have distracted the killer by going to the building and firing in the air. He didn't and that is a shame. But I digress.

    And yes, Donald did.

    All told, 642 civilians in Oradour-sur-Glane were slaughtered in reprisal for the kidnapping of one single German soldier by French resistance fighters.

    I have made my point on who makes things up...and it isn't jimakaPPJ.


    Parent

    Jim, lets be honest (5.00 / 1) (#177)
    by jondee on Thu Oct 15, 2015 at 01:02:53 PM EST
    EVERYONE here has a visceral dislike of you, yet you keep coming back.

    In the civilized world, that sort of behavior is considered the height of rudeness and bad manners.

    Didn't they teach you anything about manners growing up in the South?

    Parent

    jondee (none / 0) (#178)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Oct 15, 2015 at 09:01:40 PM EST
    They taught me that my task is to try and educate folks like you.

    Alas, alas it is an impossible task.

    But I do try hard.

    Parent

    Jim (none / 0) (#189)
    by jondee on Fri Oct 16, 2015 at 12:29:46 PM EST
    from listening to you is very hard to believe they valued education all that highly. Or manners all that highly.

    Sorry to say.

    Parent

    jondee (none / 0) (#179)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Oct 15, 2015 at 09:01:59 PM EST
    They taught me that my task is to try and educate folks like you.

    Alas, alas it is an impossible task.

    But I do try hard.

    Parent

    As a Verteran of a Foreign War... (5.00 / 2) (#158)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Oct 14, 2015 at 12:31:14 PM EST
    ...my opinion has no greater importance than anyone here, so STFU already Jim about your service.

    You are tarnishing the countless others who served in some feeble attempt to prove a political point.

    It's disgraceful.

    Parent

    Brush up your reading comprehension (none / 0) (#162)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Oct 14, 2015 at 08:46:02 PM EST
    my reply to Donald was:

    I doubt that any French Jews had that attitude.

    Enjoy your safety, dear Donald. And may you never have to defend yourself.

    Someone else is doing it for you.

    Note that I wrote nothing concerning me.

    Donald, among others, responded on a personal note:

    Nope, pathetic little warmongers like you are most always found well to the rear of the action.

    If you can't stand the heat, don't go in the kitchen.

    Parent

    You put your brain on hold (none / 0) (#154)
    by jondee on Wed Oct 14, 2015 at 08:14:25 AM EST
    and took orders for ten years and now you take orders from the Heritage Foundation.

    How does that serve America?

    And you still don't have the foggiest idea what anyone else here has done in their lives.

    Parent

    If you weren't in the military (1.00 / 1) (#159)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Oct 14, 2015 at 08:29:17 PM EST
    you didn't serve.

    Just that simple.

    BTW - Midnight basketball doesn't count.

    Parent

    Sorry you don't know the difference (5.00 / 1) (#163)
    by jondee on Wed Oct 14, 2015 at 09:54:00 PM EST
    between a job description and the actual reality of people in all walks of life who "serve" and do good for others in the real world.

    Of course, you've probably got some Biblical passage that proves that you've done more for mankind than anyone else..

    Parent

    How like you to grasp and gasp (none / 0) (#171)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Oct 15, 2015 at 09:34:44 AM EST
    We both know that the context of this conversation is military service against foreign foes.

    For example, police "Serve and Protect" but as important as that is it is not the same as taking a non union 24/7/52 job for a predetermined number of years in which you can't quit and can't disobey without some serious consequences.

    Unless, of course you desert and surrender to radical islamists resulting in the death of your peers and giving Obama an excuse to release 5 terrorists.

     

    Parent

    We both know you've narrowed (none / 0) (#175)
    by jondee on Thu Oct 15, 2015 at 12:39:48 PM EST
    the meaning of the word "serve" to cover yourself and no one else here and to feed your own narcissism -- which has a bottomless appetite..

    And btw, why, after all these years are you still clucking in the chickenhawk yard about Islamic terrorists? Time to show the world what your really made of and pick up a gun and get over there.

     

    Parent

    Yes jondee (none / 0) (#182)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Oct 15, 2015 at 09:40:02 PM EST
    the conversation was about serving the country not the city or your neighborhood.

    And based on Obama's increasing the flood of immigrants I won't have to go anyplace. They are here now. There will be more in future.

    Parent

    And btw, (none / 0) (#188)
    by jondee on Fri Oct 16, 2015 at 12:15:59 PM EST
    what is this "blacks are on the reservation" dog whistling supposed to imply?

    Are you trying to say that all blacks, besides the Ben Carsons of the world, are dependent on government largese the way reservation Indians were?

    The racist disdain of the tea bagger faction is so ingrained now that you now just spew it out unthinkingly.

    Parent

    I am imply nothing. I state. (none / 0) (#191)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Oct 16, 2015 at 04:04:36 PM EST
    It is very true and easily seen that blacks who don't toe the Demo line are attacked because of their race more than a white person. It is racism of the worst kind.

    Parent
    You repeat memes you've heard (none / 0) (#196)
    by jondee on Sat Oct 17, 2015 at 10:51:36 AM EST
    repeated without thinking about the implication of the words..

    Why is it that "on the reservation" is only used to describe blacks who vote Democrat?

    Everyone knows how the reservation system worked.

    The question is, are you playing dumb or are you just dumb??

    Parent

    Ji continue to maintain (none / 0) (#165)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 15, 2015 at 12:08:59 AM EST
    my 2 yrs. as a Navy wife counts!

    Parent
    oculus, military wives are the greatest. (none / 0) (#170)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Oct 15, 2015 at 09:26:44 AM EST


    Parent
    "By the simple act of serving" (none / 0) (#157)
    by shoephone on Wed Oct 14, 2015 at 10:38:42 AM EST
    So, in other words, you really didn't do anything to defend anyone's safety. You just enlisted and wore a uniform while doing diddly.


    Parent
    shoephone I have never (none / 0) (#183)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Oct 15, 2015 at 09:44:18 PM EST
    commented on what I did.

    It is irrelevant to the point I make.

    BTW - I have commented many times that I believe in Universal Military Service. And one of the stated reasons is that it puts everyone's children into the game.

    Parent

    It MIGHT have been considered irrelevant (5.00 / 1) (#184)
    by shoephone on Thu Oct 15, 2015 at 11:33:15 PM EST
    if you hadn't spent countless years on this blog puffing your chest out about whatever mysterious things you did in the military, and belligerently disparaging everyone else--whether they "served" or not. As if the mere fact of having been in the military is the mark of a great human. It isn't. I know people who served with honor (my stepdad, for one. He's been decorated with medals by the U.S., British, and French governments) and people who served with great dishonor, and got away with it (like the guy I met in college who one night admitted to raping Vietnamese girls, and claimed that it was not that big a deal, "cuz, hey, lots of other soldiers did it too.")

    You may have worn a uniform, but your obnoxious egotism + desperate secrecy about it makes me very, very suspicious that you did much of anything but take up space and get a paycheck, courtesy of the U.S taxpayers.

    The fact that Scott served in a direct capacity during Vietnam, but never tries to prove he's better than anyone else here because of it, says a lot. He reminds me of most of the people I know who served during wartime: some are proud of it, some are not, but they don't try and bash other people over the head with it.

    Your attitude, likewise, speaks volumes about you. And after all the sound and fury you expel, you keep your history in the service a secret. You must be ashamed of it, after all. Perhaps because, in reality, it signifies nothing.  

    Parent

    shoephone the issue first (none / 0) (#192)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Oct 16, 2015 at 04:50:17 PM EST
    came up, years before you showed up, in discussions about the war in Iraq in which I pointed out that, as someone who had served, I knew more about the military than the average anti-war Leftie. Since then I use it when someone becomes especially insulting, such as Scott, Donald, jondee and anne are apt to do from time to time. If, at the beginning, someone had made a reasonable request for details I probably would have given some. But since insult has been the game my attitude is, I won't bring it up if you won't.

    In this particular case I direct anyone with an interest to read the thread in an un nested configuration and they will see how the conversation started out with attacks on Dr. Carson for his comments re self defense and guns. Z joined in supporting Dr. Carson and drew very heavy attacks from Donald who claimed that if someone had resisted, such as Jews in France, more would have died.

    I agreed with Z.

    Donald, what Z is pointing out is that if (none / 0) (#112)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 09:20:37 AM CST
    the French had had guns on D Day they would have been more capable in killing Germans and assisting the invasion.

    Pretty simple.

    Would some French people have died.

    Yes.

    Donald, of course, when ballistic. I replied:

    The facts are that bad things happen to good (none / 0) (#124)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 12:28:16 PM CST
    people and that it is necessary to defend yourself.

    You are a member of the group that wants the police to come by, count the dead and write reports. And then you want to blather on and on about your family and how the French actually hates the allies for liberating them.

    I doubt that any French Jews had that attitude.

    Enjoy your safety, dear Donald. And may you never have to defend yourself.

    Someone else is doing it for you.

    Donald was probably quivering when he replied:

    Because while I and others here may well be depending on other people to defend our safety, we can no doubt also rest assured that big-talking chickenhawks like you and your fellow brave souls of the U.S. 101st Parallel Universe Division -- aka "the Fighting Keyboardists" -- most certainly won't be counted amongst their numbers.

    Nope, pathetic little warmongers like you are most always found well to the rear of the action.

    At that point I thought it reasonable to remind Donald of some facts:

    I mean, now you are calling me a war monger because I advocate self defense when attacked??

    But I do understand and agree with you:

    "Because while I and others here may well be depending on other people to defend our safety..."

    I mean yes. Yes you do. And yes. Yes you did.

    BTW, I have still served the country for 10 years.

    That's 10 more than you.

    At this point several of you jumped in and I just kept reminding you that you had not served. jondee tried to make doing anything thing the equivalent of military service.

    And I love you quoting what someone supposedly told you that raping Viennese young girls was common place. Did you actually believe him?? And if you did, do you also believe that returning vets were spit on and called baby killers??

    I mean one anecdotal story is as good as another, right?

    So you can believe or not believe, I care not. And Scott can tell what he wants to tell. He is a free agent. I don't care what he did. He knows the value of his work and I have written that I honor his service and all those who served. Even Kerry's. (It was after he returned home that he turned traitor.)

    So I repeat. Don't insult me by making wild claims about my service and I won't bring the subject up.

    Your choice.


    Parent

    You know more ... (none / 0) (#193)
    by Yman on Fri Oct 16, 2015 at 05:37:49 PM EST
    ... about "the military" than the average anti-war Leftie?  Really?  How do you know that?

    More importantly, you said it was a discussion about the Iraq War.  Which war did you serve in?

    Heh, heh, heh ...

    Parent

    But you do bring it up (none / 0) (#195)
    by shoephone on Fri Oct 16, 2015 at 06:46:31 PM EST
    Jim. You bring it up all the time. You use it as a cudgel, whenever you feel threatened by a challenge to your fact-less statements. It's your go-to tactic. Therefore, the onus is on you to come clean--which you refuse to do.

    I, frankly, don't give a cr@p what you did--or didn't do--during your time in the military. I'm sure the details would bore me endlessly. But if you keep bringing it up and using it as a weapon to shut other people up, then you deserve all the flak you get.

    And, by the way, I've been reading this blog for many more years than I've been commenting. I'm well acquainted with your comments from waaaayyyy back. You've been accusing other people of "making stuff up" for at least the past ten years.

    Parent

    More me-first, (none / 0) (#197)
    by jondee on Sat Oct 17, 2015 at 10:56:32 AM EST
    the-rules-don't-apply crapola..

    People aren't supposed to be devouring bandwidth here reposting other people's posts.

    Parent

    et al (none / 0) (#198)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Oct 17, 2015 at 12:05:07 PM EST
    yman, personal knowledge of the military and war? You first.

    And that teacher, while important, is not on the front line. If the military, which that mess cook you sneer at from your elitist perch is part of, loses the war then the teacher is meaningless.

    shoephone, if you don't care why are you writing about it? And the answer is that the reminder of what you didn't do makes you uncomfortable.

    And TL has been around right at 13 years..but nice claim.

    And I as note to jondee, quit the military insults and I will not respond.

    jondee - sometimes it is necessary to quote other people's insults. As a solution I suggest you and Donald quit posting personal insults.

    et al et al - The issue remains. The gulf between us is that while I am a social liberal, I also believe in the second amendment and a strong military with universal service.

    I also agree with Dr. Carson's statement that if you are in a group, don't stand there and be killed, attack as a group and some of you will survive.

    The Jews learned that lesson in Hitler's death camps and the survivors still practice it.

    BTW - Dr. Carson's position by itself doesn't qualify him to be president. But anyone who doesn't have that position is not. Look at the mess that Obama has gotten us into.

    Your aversion to violence as a necessary and responsible personal defense carries over to your position re the military. Time and again I have seen the military cheered on when they go into an earthquake damaged area but cursed and scolded when they attack an enemy.

    And worse, with no personal knowledge of the military, its culture, its demands and its rewards you deem your knowledge gleamed from the press and  the Leftie teaching in schools has made you an expert.

    Trust me. You aren't.

    Parent

    Your entire comment is senseless (5.00 / 2) (#200)
    by shoephone on Sun Oct 18, 2015 at 12:31:54 AM EST
    shoephone, if you don't care why are you writing about it? And the answer is that the reminder of what you didn't do makes you uncomfortable.

    1. I write about it because you've been hiding and lying about your real military experience for years. You're the one who continually brings it up, but then you stop short of telling the full truth. That makes it ripe for questioning. Either come clean about it or quit your blathering about it.

    2. "the remainder of what you didn't do makes you uncomfortable." What on earth does that even mean? In plain English? If you're concerned that I didn't spend time in the military, that's your issue, not mine. Unlike you, I'm not someone who needs to be ordered around by others to feel I have a purpose in life. The only one who is uncomfortable is you, Jim. Day in and day out. Otherwise you wouldn't spend so much time on this blog, trying to prove yourself to a bunch of people you are unlikely to ever meet.

    Bottom line: Tell the truth about your military service. Either put up or shut up.

    Parent
    Sorry, Jim (none / 0) (#199)
    by Yman on Sat Oct 17, 2015 at 10:28:30 PM EST
    You're the one claiming your experience in a peacetime military gives you special knowledge/credibility when it comes the the subject of the Iraq war.  That's funny.  But it's really not necessary for you to go first, since we all know the truth of your posing.

    BTW - I guess it wasn't obvious enough for you, but that "mess cook" was not just an abstract example.

    Heh, heh, heh ...

    Parent

    Why not just Universal Service? (none / 0) (#185)
    by jondee on Fri Oct 16, 2015 at 08:11:00 AM EST
    that would help the country immeasurably more than indoctrinating every citizen in the art of fearing authority and killing..

    Even your mentor Heinlein acknowledged that only certain people were cut out for the military whereas other's gifts and abilities lay in areas like scientific research, agriculture, engineering, human services etc etc

    Parent

    The reason? (none / 0) (#186)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Oct 16, 2015 at 09:58:44 AM EST
    Universal service is "midnight basketball."

    Universal Military Service is national defense.

    Even you must agree that there is a difference.

    Parent

    Is that what all the doctors and nurses (none / 0) (#187)
    by jondee on Fri Oct 16, 2015 at 12:04:43 PM EST
    and teachers and youth workers and construction workers do? Play "midnight basketball"?

    You take a lot for granted.

    Of course, no one's contribution is more valuable than your's has been. What a self-glorifying as*hole you are -- not to put too fine a point on it.

    Parent

    Being a civilian doctor or nurse or teacher (none / 0) (#190)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Oct 16, 2015 at 04:02:25 PM EST
    is no different than a waitress or mechanic or basketball player.

    They can quit at anytime.

    And you are correct when it comes to protecting the country the contribution of a Private is more important than a MD with a clinic in the 'burbs.

    Parent

    Heh - that's funny (none / 0) (#194)
    by Yman on Fri Oct 16, 2015 at 05:39:47 PM EST
    And you are correct when it comes to protecting the country the contribution of a Private is more important than a MD with a clinic in the 'burbs.

    I know many teachers who contribute far more by teaching than a mess clerk in "naval aviation".

    Parent

    Well (none / 0) (#155)
    by jondee on Wed Oct 14, 2015 at 08:32:25 AM EST
    if you have a lively enough imagination, you can take credit for fighting in the Battle of Agincourt while shuffling papers..

    Parent
    Donald (none / 0) (#136)
    by sj on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 04:19:58 PM EST
    Maybe so-far-unconvicted meant that in addition to having more GUNS! the resistance should have also had their a$$es hanging out. It makes as much sense. jim is in agreement so ... I guess it's logical.

    Man, am I glad that I am nowhere NEAR to Green Lake.

    Parent

    People who have never experienced war ... (5.00 / 2) (#150)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Oct 14, 2015 at 12:18:48 AM EST
    ... have no business passing judgment upon those who have, and that includes the respective populations of those countries occupied by the Axis during the Second World War. The notion that the French people should have had more guns and actively resisted the Germans is beyond silly.

    France in May 1940 was one of the world's major powers, and possessed one of its largest standing armies with over three million men under arms. It took the Germans all of 46 days to reduce that country from its formerly lofty status to one of a conquered province and rump vassal state -- from May 10, when the Germans invaded the Low Countries, to June 25, when France surrendered unconditionally to Adolf Hitler, in a ceremony which took place in the very same railcar in the Forest of Compiegne where Germany capitulated to end the First World War.

    If the French army couldn't withstand the German Blitzkrieg, how were French civilians supposed to resist the occupying Wehrmacht? It would have invited their wholesale slaughter.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    You Are Replying... (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 10:49:25 AM EST
    ...to a man who quotes science fiction writers as some brilliance that applies to world politics.

    Never mind that Heinlein was a liberal, because no one cares what a science fiction writer, who died nearly 30 years ago, would think about Syria/Iraq.

    It's the rights shame game, you don't like war, then you are a pacifist, you don't love your country, you are a radical, you hate the military, and 1001 really dumb things they say when the can't make the case based on merit, so they try and shame.

    Parent

    But, Scott - he has a friend in (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by Anne on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 11:10:26 AM EST
    Uncle Chip; that has to count for something, right?

    Lordy.

    Parent

    the politics of heinlein (none / 0) (#62)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 03:25:41 PM EST
    the politics of heinlein were fluid and changed somewhat over the course of his life . . . variously liberal, conservative, hippy counter-culture, etc

    different of his books reflect different possible political views . . .

    Some people think of Heinlein as mostly libertarian with various possible additional elements.

    Calling him a liberal is misleading oversimplication.

    Parent

    et al (none / 0) (#63)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 03:26:07 PM EST
    anne, Carson's point is really quite simple.

    We are our brother's keeper and evil should be opposed. We should never stand mutely by and just allow ourselves to be killed.

    Is that bigotry? Only in your mind.

    GA, when you don't have the facts, make wild claims.

    Scott, yes you are. And you are wrong about Heinlein.

    Isaac Asimov believed that Heinlein made a swing to the right politically at the same time he married Ginny.
    The Heinleins formed the small "Patrick Henry League" in 1958, and they worked in the 1964 Barry Goldwater Presidential campaign.[16]
    When Robert A. Heinlein opened his Colorado Springs newspaper on April 5, 1958, he read a full-page ad demanding that the Eisenhower Administration stop testing nuclear weapons. The science-fiction author was flabbergasted. He called for the formation of the Patrick Henry League and spent the next several weeks writing and publishing his own polemic that lambasted "Communist-line goals concealed in idealistic-sounding nonsense" and urged Americans not to become "soft-headed."[27]

    Link

    Donald, as usual you make things up.

    warmongering and stupidity with the concept of patriotism.

    That has nothing to do with the concept of self defense.

    Heinlein also wrote:

    What are the marks of a sick culture? It is a bad sign when the people of a country stop identifying themselves with the country and start identifying with a group. A racial group. Or a religion. Or a language. Anything, as long as it isn't the whole population.

    Zorba I did my share. Jondee, you did not.

    et al - There was a time in which being a Democrat did not mean you were, a best, a pacifist. Of course Truman and Roosevelt are dead.

    Parent

    That's right, Jim. We're all making things up. (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 06:50:25 PM EST
    JimakaPPJ: "[A]s usual you make things up."

    Well, since we're busted, I guess I'll just have to spill the beans. For years now, Anne and I have convened a nightly conference call of our fellow delusional TL libtards, and we all come up with various ways by which we can irritate you and get your goat. But alas, we should have known that you're simply too smart for the sorry likes of us.

    Christ in Heaven, but you are a pill! And once again, I'm left to wonder how you ever made it past the ninth grade.

    :-P

    Parent

    Carson's point was really quite simple (5.00 / 2) (#87)
    by jondee on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 01:15:26 AM EST
    to in a staggeringly stupid and heavy-handed way exploit one of history's greatest tragedies in the service of the far-rights neanderthalic approach to violence in America.

    Parent
    "Zorba, I did my share." (4.00 / 1) (#82)
    by shoephone on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 09:32:17 PM EST
    Whatever the he[[ that means.

    Parent
    Beats (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by Zorba on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 02:04:42 PM EST
    the he[[ out of me.   ;-)
    And to quote him:  et al, and lol.


    Parent
    Oh, "you're just making things up." (none / 0) (#135)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 04:10:13 PM EST
    No doubt, he's ROTFL.

    Parent
    What makes the repeated use of that (none / 0) (#88)
    by jondee on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 01:24:59 AM EST
    quotation so dumb is that it refuses to acknowledge the obvious fact that pacifistic teachers, doctors, nurses, parents, scientists etc can still make tremendous contributions to any society.

    The poet Lorca talked about fascistic "patent leather souls" who only admire a man in uniform carrying a gun..

    Jim and Robert Heinlein are obviously two of those.

    Parent

    jondee (none / 0) (#113)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 10:25:58 AM EST
    A society that ceases to exist due to external forces cannot be contributed to.

    Of course a pacifistic can contribute to the new society.

    "Don't resist. Your death will painless."

    Parent

    A society that only values (none / 0) (#146)
    by jondee on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 06:17:59 PM EST
    Identical armed men in lockstep who never pause to question an order has already ceased to exist.

    Parent
    re Carson and the holocaust (none / 0) (#65)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 03:53:46 PM EST
    Wikipedia says that there were about 100 armed uprisings of Jews against the Nazis during WWII, but wiki also says of the Warsaw ghetto uprising that they, the Jews, were poorly armed . . .

    Unless someone has been recently reading wiki or studying the time, they might not know the numbers of armed uprisings of Jews . . . or the amount or quality of the arms . . .

    I assume that Carson does not spend his time reading wiki to check each statement for complete accuracy . . .

    but he seems to be doing as well or perhaps better than HRC in HRC's running explanations and commentary on her private servers--explanations that change from month to month to reflect new information.

    I am not sure if anyone running is really very accurate or honest . . . maybe Sanders or O'malley but I haven't even tried to pay attention to their accuracy or not . . .

    Parent

    to be more precise . . . (none / 0) (#89)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 03:45:29 AM EST
    as I recall, what carson said was that we should rush those who are shooting us or shooting at us or perceived as likely to be shooting at us or others, and not merely certain armed robbers . . .

    you would agree that Meis at SPU in Seattle and the Americans in France on the train did exactly that, and that they are regarded as heroes for it?

    Parent

    I Would Agree... (5.00 / 2) (#105)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 09:16:57 AM EST
    ...that guns have killed infinitely more people than they have saved.  The notion that they make us safer is absurd and untrue.

    Carson is a jag-off who, in his own words, when put up to the challenge of an armed robber, threw a fast food employee under the bus to save his own @ss.  IOW, he doesn't even stand up to his own bad advise when given the chance.

    Parent

    And that story cannot be verified, (5.00 / 2) (#109)
    by Anne on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 09:45:03 AM EST
    so not sure anyone should believe it.

    What this nitwit doesn't seem to understand is that trying to make the argument that the course of history would have been different had the Jews been armed to the teeth is a dishonest, offensive and manipulative one.  Not to mention wholly self-serving.

    This is not Nazi Germany.  Obama is not Hitler.  No one is confiscating any legally-owned weapons.

    Ben Carson is a man with dangerous ideas; they are no less dangerous just because he isn't shouting them and spraying people with spittle.

    Parent

    And what Carson said was stupid, really (none / 0) (#110)
    by Anne on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 09:52:34 AM EST
    stupid, because it's going to get people killed.

    Parent
    As these fit you much better, Jim. (none / 0) (#47)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 12:58:21 PM EST
    "Ignorance is the night of the mind, but a night without moon and star."
    - Confucius (551 B.C.-479 B.C.)

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago."
    - Bernard Berenson (1865-1959)

    "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."
    - The Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr. (1929 - 1968), Strength to Love (1963)

    Because only willful ignorance would cause someone such as yourself to conflate both warmongering and stupidity with the concept of patriotism.

    "You have to understand the way I am, Mein Herr. A tiger is a tiger, not a lamb, Mein Herr. You'll never turn the vinegar to jam, Mein Herr. So I do what I do. When I'm through, then I'm through. And I'm through. Toodle-oo! Bye-bye, Mein Lieber Herr."
    - Sally Bowles (Liza Minnelli), Cabaret (1972)

    :-P

    Parent

    I love your quote from Cabaret (none / 0) (#114)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 10:39:57 AM EST
    It reminds me that it was adapted from the Christopher Isherwood story.

     

    Auden and Isherwood set sail for the United States on temporary visas, a controversial move, later regarded by some as a flight from danger on the eve of war in Europe.[12] Evelyn Waugh, in his novel Put Out More Flags (1942), included a caricature of Auden and Isherwood as "two despicable poets, Parsnip and Pimpernel", who flee to America to avoid World War Two.[13]

    Link

    He later became a citizen but was an obvious pacifist.

    sherwood considered becoming an American citizen in 1945 but balked at taking an oath that included the statement that he would defend the country. The next year he applied for citizenship and answered questions honestly, saying he would accept non-combatant duties like loading ships with food.

    To our shame we has naturalized in '46.

    I add a very heartfelt thanks for making my point.

    Parent

    You have absolutely no point, Jim, ... (5.00 / 3) (#118)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 12:50:23 PM EST
    JimakaPPJ: "I add a very heartfelt thanks for making my point."

    ... and never more so as when you insinuate that openly gay men such as Christopher Isherwood should have remained in Berlin and courted their fate with the Nazis, rather than get out of the country while they still could.

    That's both completely asinine and thoroughly despicable.

    Parent

    I have insinuated nothing and made (1.00 / 1) (#125)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 01:36:19 PM EST
    no comment about Isherwood's sexual orientation. Of course such accusations are standard from folks like you. And you insult thousands of gay men and women who have served by making your false claim.

    You just make things up because you don't have facts.

    As Gump said, "Stupid is as stupid does."

    Parent

    You didn't have to mention that Isherwood was gay. (none / 0) (#133)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 03:58:58 PM EST
    For someone who brought him up, it's quite obvious that you've never actually read "Goodbye to Berlin," his short novel upon which the musical "Cabaret" was based.

    Isherwood's sexual orientation has long been well-known and further, he made little or no effort to hide that fact during his lifetime. And so, since that's a given, yes, you did make that horrid insinuation. When you offer such noxious comments, you don't then get to define what others are supposed to think you said.

    And of course, you'd quote Gump. You literally personify that saying, because given your posts in this thread -- hell, in ANY thread, for that matter -- you obviously wouldn't know fact from fiction if your life depended on it. Since I've no further time to waste on old bigots, I'm through talking to you here.

    Ciao.

    Parent

    You brought Isherwood into the conveersation (none / 0) (#140)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 05:15:44 PM EST
    by quoting from Cabaret. I merely pointed out his politics. Then you brought up his sexual orientation.

    Really Donald, do you think the world's a stage and only you get to perform?

    Yes, I think you do.

    Parent

    Donald, my brother, (none / 0) (#141)
    by Zorba on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 05:21:54 PM EST
    I have advised you in the past to just ignore him and never respond to him.
    I know that's hard, because I also know that you don't want to let such profound misperceptions pass without trying to correct them.
    But really, at the end of the day, all it does is upset you, and you have enough on your plate without trying to deal with this type of thing.
    Take a few deep yoga breaths, and try to take care of your health, and yourself.
    Peace, and namaste.

    Parent
    In your heart (none / 0) (#144)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 05:37:02 PM EST
    You know I'm right.

    Parent
    In my guts, ... (5.00 / 1) (#151)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Oct 14, 2015 at 12:20:46 AM EST
    ... I know you're nuts.

    Parent
    Of course when the far-right (none / 0) (#147)
    by jondee on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 06:34:32 PM EST
    gets done with that pansy-ass peace freak Jesus, he'll be repackaged as a mullet-wearing, hummer-driving uberpatriot who supports the troops and has his own Heavanly talk radio show.

    Parent
    Maybe (5.00 / 1) (#148)
    by FlJoe on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 07:06:29 PM EST
    we should ask Carson and Jim if Jesus should have armed himself and fought the Romans instead of surrendering, that's the only logical assumption to be made from their rhetoric.

    Parent
    Luke 22:36 (none / 0) (#161)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Oct 14, 2015 at 08:36:52 PM EST
    Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.


    Parent
    Jesus was a conceal carry guy (none / 0) (#164)
    by jondee on Wed Oct 14, 2015 at 10:03:23 PM EST
    a lot of people don't know that..

    Interestingly, a little known fact is that he was also a social liberal who was onto all environmental hoaxers of his day..

    And he also believed in a strong national defense


    Parent

    lol - A lot of people don't read the bible they (none / 0) (#166)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Oct 15, 2015 at 08:53:26 AM EST
    just mouth claims that someone else has told them.

    Then they double down as you just did.

    Jesus' kingdom was not of this world so he said pay taxes, which, of course, would be used for national defense.

    Mathew 22:

    20 And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?

    21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.



    Parent
    Yep (none / 0) (#167)
    by FlJoe on Thu Oct 15, 2015 at 09:00:12 AM EST
    that whole "Prince of Peace" thing was just a PR scam. That whole "turn the other cheek thing" was really a reference to switching to your "dominant eye" in order to get a better bead on your enemy. Jim's Jesus was nobody's punk.

    Parent
    Again you need to read (none / 0) (#169)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Oct 15, 2015 at 09:22:42 AM EST
    Luke 22:36-36

    35 And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.

    36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    You should remember at this point Jesus knew that he was about to be arrested. He had told Peter that Peter would found his church and that Peter and the others would go forth and spread the faith to everyone. A reasonable person would assume that they would need protection.

    Jesus allowed himself to he sacrificed for our sins. He did not say that we should sacrifice ourselves.

    Here is a brief explanation of "turn the other cheek" which you want to use.

    Another interpretation is that Jesus was not changing the meaning of "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" but restoring it to the original context. Jesus starts his statement with "you have heard it said", which could mean that he was clarifying a misconception, as opposed to "it is written" which could be a reference to scripture. The common misconception seems to be that people were using Exodus 21:24-25 (the guidelines for a magistrate to punish convicted offenders) as a justification for personal vengeance. In this context, the command to "turn the other cheek" would not be a command to allow someone to beat or rob a person, but a command not to take vengeance.

    Link

    Parent

    The idea is to make yourself over in (none / 0) (#176)
    by jondee on Thu Oct 15, 2015 at 12:42:52 PM EST
    his image, not make him over in your image..

    When you get done with him, Mary and Martha will be the spitting images of Pam Geller and Ann Coulter..

    Parent

    The idea is to read and understand (none / 0) (#181)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Oct 15, 2015 at 09:34:19 PM EST
    I doubt if you have ever had anyone actually point out the difference between "you have heard it said" and "it is written."

    Christ was not into politics. He taught individual salvation, not group think. For example, He did not throw the money changers and sellers of because He hated money. He did so because they were defiling the temple.

    Parent

    Sorry, FlJoe, I missed you (none / 0) (#168)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Oct 15, 2015 at 09:00:30 AM EST
    And to answer your question.

    John18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.


    Parent
    there is at Greenlake . . . (1.00 / 3) (#13)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 09:41:45 AM EST
    There is at Greenlake a man who also at times walks and who is considered by some people the mayor of Greenlake--or perhaps he is considered by himself to be mayor of Greenlake.

    He is Jewish and a former school teacher.  For a while he and I were somewhat friendly though we have not talked much this year.

    He owns one or more guns, and when we were discussing that topic, he said it was for the next time that the government comes for the Jews.

    April 19, 1775 . . .

    Parent

    Throughout history (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by jondee on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 10:17:22 AM EST
    going back to the Middle Ages and before it wasn't "governments" coming for the Jews so much as it was Christians.

    Parent
    Good God... (5.00 / 6) (#20)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 10:39:36 AM EST
    ...now we are getting advise about guns from a man who likes exposing himself in public because of what one one person, who fancies himself as a mayor of a lake, may have said to him.

    Don't you have some unsuspecting young females to horrify ?

    Parent

    LOL! He probably does, Scott. (none / 0) (#49)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 01:08:55 PM EST
    But the Woodland Park Zoo probably has a standing TRO against him, so he comes here instead.

    (FYI, Green Lake is a residential district in north Seattle, and home to an assortment of odd and colorful characters.)

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Jon Meis saved lives . . . (none / 0) (#17)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 10:21:43 AM EST
    Jon Meis -- the Seattle Pacific University student who pepper-sprayed, tackled and with the help of others held down the man shooting students at Seattle Pacific University last week -- has released a statement about his actions at SPU.

    Parent
    the first step in SPU attack . . . (none / 0) (#23)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 10:47:39 AM EST
    Once at the campus, Ybarra said he re-assembled the shotgun, loaded it and walked toward Otto Miller Hall.

    When he attempted to take the students hostage by brandishing the weapon, Ybarra said a male student laughed at him, thinking the gun was fake.

    "I was really mad at him for doing that," Ybarra told detectives. "That was the first guy I shot. When he turned his back."

    Ybarra did not start with shooting; Ybarra started with brandishing and demands  . . .  He shot when he was ignored and laughed at.  Ybarra shot 3 persons; he killed one of them and wounded 2 others.  

    So . . . we suppose instead first guy jumps at him and is shot while doing so . . .  We have to guess as to whether or not Ybarra kills  him in the heat of the moment . . . or if something goes wrong . . .  Does Ybarra miss or only wound him?  We don't know.

    Please note that most mass shooters, in contrast to Ybarra, have not spent time practicing at the local shooting range . . .

    Parent

    why the problem with Carson's comments? (2.20 / 5) (#5)
    by zaitztheunconvicted on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 03:02:23 AM EST
    back on 9/11, there was a group of unarmed passengers who attacked the hijackers and we celebrate them as heroes because they saved lives.

    a few months ago, there were several americans on a train in France and they attacked a gunman and took him down and we celebrate them as heroes.

    In Seattle, a year ago, there was a shooter at SPU and he had to reload and while attempting to reload, he was attacked by a person or persons who stopped him, who are now considered heroes or a hero.

    During WWII, there were in fact some Jews who took up  arms in the Ukraine and wandered about, providing for themselves and killing Germans and there is a movie about it called Defiance.  You know, the movie with Daniel Craig the D-list actor no one has heard of . . .

    Also during WWII, the Jews in the ghetto of Warsaw rebelled and fought the Germans . . . and, in case you did not know it, that was also made into a movie with other d-list actors such as leelee sobieski and it went straight to late-night cable--being of such poor quality . . .

    Though, the Warsaw uprising was put down . . .

    In 1968, the 25th anniversary of the Warsaw ghetto uprising, Zuckerman was asked what military lessons could be learned from the uprising. He replied:

    "I don't think there's any real need to analyze the Uprising in military terms. This was a war of less than a thousand people against a mighty army and no one doubted how it was likely to turn out. This isn't a subject for study in military school. (...) If there's a school to study the human spirit, there it should be a major subject. The important things were inherent in the force shown by Jewish youth after years of degradation, to rise up against their destroyers, and determine what death they would choose: Treblinka or Uprising."[62]

    THE VILLAGE OF NALIBOKI 4
    A typical Eastern European shtetl. LOCAL POLICE help German Einsatzgruppen, mobile killing squads, round up Jews.

    PEASANTS beat them with sticks as they are herded into lines.
    One man tries to run and is beaten.
    Others look on, or look away with indifference as they are loaded onto waiting trucks.
    5 TWO MEN HIDE IN THE NEARBY WOODS (ZUS & ASAEL BIELSKI)

    Oh . . . well . . . I can't imagine what two Jews with a gun could do . . .  I can't imagine it at all . . .

    Parent

    Everyone responds differently in high stress life (none / 0) (#35)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 11:44:38 AM EST
    And death situations. If people can communicate privately and create a plan that changes things exponentially too, like in the back aisles of a full airplane.

    But a real idiocy in Carson's philosophy is that as far as I know he doesn't believe in a new world order. If this storm the guys with guns thing were to be adopted on a large scale look out 1%, look out law enforcement, look out crowd control.  If Ben Carson really wants people to ignore the deadlines of guns and enmass storm those who threaten us with such weapons he might want to tease that philosophy all the way out :)

    Parent

    Weird population dynamics with Maine Lobsters (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by Mr Natural on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 10:26:45 AM EST
    The enigma behind America's freak, 20-year lobster boom

    Last year, Maine fishermen hauled ashore 124 million pounds of lobsters, six times more than what they'd caught in 1984.

    Even more remarkable than sheer volume, though, is that this sudden sixfold surge has no clear explanation. A rise in sea temperatures, which has sped up lobster growth and opened up new coastal habitats for baby lobsters, is one likely reason. Another is that by plundering cod and other big fish in the Gulf of Maine, we've thinned out the predators that long kept lobster numbers in check.

    Even as biologists puzzle over Maine's strange serendipity, a more ominous mystery is emerging. A scientist who tracks baby lobsters reports that in the last few years their numbers have abruptly plummeted, up and down Maine's coast.
    Not sure about Yankee lobsters (none / 0) (#91)
    by ragebot on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 06:19:01 AM EST
    But I do know something about lobsters in the Florida.  Since the 1950s when my Dad returned to his home state I have been catching and eating Florida Lobsters.  Some years lobster are hard to find and some years they literally walk over each other's backs and crawl out of the water on land in what is called a lobster walk.

    Some say storms are the cause, but the thing is not all storms cause one and sometimes they walk without storms.  But I have never seen anyone who could predict correctly when the lobster would walk.

    Parent

    In Maine (none / 0) (#107)
    by CST on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 09:23:21 AM EST
    The lobster population dropped for a few years but recently has been booming.  It's more long-term trends.  They are worried now though because there seem to be a lot of missing baby lobsters, despite the continuing lobster boom.

    Parent
    Movies! Movies! Movies! (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by caseyOR on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 11:10:31 AM EST
    Saw two movies this weekend, and I recommend them both. Both Sicario and The Martian provide suspense, interesting characters and an emotional response, albeit a different emotional response for each movie.

    Sicario is another movie about our never-ending drug wars. It stars Emily Blunt as an FBI agent who specializes in kidnap rescues. While not starry-eyed, she does still believe in doing things by the book. She is assigned to be the liaison to an undefined drug war task force lead by Josh Brolin, a task force that somehow includes a former Columbian prosecutor played by Benicio del Toro.

    It is a harsh movie, but the actors, especially Blunt and del Toro, are excellent. Be warned- this is in no way a nice or fun or easy-going movie, and violence probably should have been billed as a co-star.

    The Martian, which stars Matt Damon with a multitude of other actors doing excellent work (Jeff Daniels, Jessica Chastain, Chiwetel Elejiofor, Michael Pena and others) is based on the book of the same name. Damon plays an astronaut, part of a Mars exploration team, who is left on the red planet by his crew because they think he has been killed in a storm.

    The movie runs on two tracks- Damon trying to survive on Mars and NASA down on earth trying, once they learn to their great shock and surprise that Damon's character is alive, trying to figure out a way to bring him back home to earth.

    I laughed and I cried. Seriously. Damon, who is one of my favorite actors, is so good in this movie. And, given that he plays an astronaut stranded on Mars, totally believable.

    The Martian is offered in both 2D and 3D. I saw it at the Giant Screen Theater here in 2D because I trouble watching 3D. Spectacular.

    We have entered that time of year when I seem to be going to a movie at least once, if not more, a week because suddenly the theaters are filled with movies I actually want to see enough to pay the ticket prices. I do take full advantage of the fact that I am now old enough for the senior discount.


    replied in the other thread (none / 0) (#29)
    by CST on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 11:12:58 AM EST
    But I'll stop by again to say YAAAY MARTIAN.

    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#67)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 04:24:24 PM EST
    It was very good.   And I'm not a fan of the star particularly.

    Parent
    "Sicario" was wonderful but ... (none / 0) (#66)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 04:05:34 PM EST
    ... but pretty hair-raising, as movie experiences go. I'll also echo your cautious recommendation of this movie, because some of its moments are definitely not for the squeamish or overly sensitive. I'll just say that given both the plot and what's depicted onscreen, you'll eventually come to see both how and why they went there.

    Ever since his Oscar-nominated supporting turn as S.F. Supervisor Dan White in Gus Van Sant's acclaimed film "Milk," I've come to really appreciate Josh Brolin's understated approach to drama. In this particular role in "Sicario," he offers just a vague and tantalizing hint of potential menace, without ever once devolving into outright caricature. A lesser actor wouldn't have been able to resist the temptation to chew the scenery and channel Sterling Hayden's Gen. Jack D. Ripper from "Dr. Strangelove."

    A funny thing about senior discounts: when my hair grew back after chemo, it came in very grey. So much so that when I occasionally go to see a film on my own, unless I specifically say "One adult, please," more often than not the box office clerk will look at me and automatically give me the senior discount, even though I won't actually turn 60 for another 5-1/2 years. I guess I aged more than I realized from that health issue.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Amy Schumer... (5.00 / 3) (#32)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 11:24:11 AM EST
    ...on SNL did a damn funny skit spoofing gun lovers.

    The problem, it's a spoof of reality.

    A comment above reminded me, we don't allow guns on planes, even for personal security, because the idea that more guns would equal less violence is absurd, whether it's up in the air, down on the ground, in a hospital, or at the playground.  Less guns equals less gun violence, no matter what gun manufactures claim.

    1,000th US Mass Shooting Since Sandy Hook (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 01:28:34 PM EST
    Just before sundown on Thursday 1 October, an old man charged across the main street of the little town of Inglis, Florida. He was expecting trouble. Someone had recklessly fired a pistol in public, and Buzz Terhune intended to have words about it.

    The horror that unfolded in the next few minutes has become so mundane, so everyday, that it no longer makes national news. Terhune was marching headlong into the 1,000th mass shooting in the United States since the Sandy Hook elementary school massacre almost three years ago.

    Just a few hours earlier, a gunman in Oregon had killed nine people and injured nine others at a community college. It shocked the American conscience. But what happened to Terhune and three other people, and has happened to thousands of others across the country, went unnoticed. Shootings that injure or kill four or more people - mass shootings - have become commonplace in American culture.

     LINK

    Parent
    Guns & Football (none / 0) (#48)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 01:06:53 PM EST
    This time after the Dallas game where a crowd cheered for the person with the gun to shoot the guy who is now in critical condition. LINK

    The good news, the shooter hurt himself trying to get away and will be in jail as soon as the hospital releases him.

    Parent

    Innoncent man sentenced to death (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by McBain on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 11:35:06 AM EST
    http://tinyurl.com/onntuau

    Typical situation.  Poor defendant couldn't afford a good lawyer.  The prosecutors wanted to win at all costs.  Only unusual thing.... after 30 years the prosecutor admits he was wrong.

    Columbus Day (5.00 / 2) (#50)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 01:18:05 PM EST
    For generations, school children learned to recite, "In fourteen hundred and ninety-two, Columbus sailed the ocean blue". They then learned the story of the brave explorer who navigated into uncharted territory with sailors who were frightened of falling off the edge of a flat earth. That tale, much of it created by Washington Irving (the man who gave us The Legend of Sleepy Hollow), is bunk. Mariners knew full well the earth was round, including Columbus and his crew. Columbus just thought the circumference of the earth was thousands of miles smaller, and thus that the islands of the Caribbean were the East Indies. Our holiday celebrates a man who was lost.

    Lost or not, he immediately captured some of the natives he met, writing of the "seven [natives] which I have ordered to be taken and carried to Spain," and further musing that "I could conquer the whole of them with 50 men, and govern them as I pleased". In December, his ships reached Hispaniola - the island that now hosts Haiti and the Dominican Republic - where he forced the natives to provide him gold; those who didn't had their hands lopped off. It was the beginning of a rapid decline of the island's population; historian Laurence Bergreen estimates that there were 300,000 natives on Hispaniola when Columbus arrived; by 1550, there were just 500. Many had been killed by disease or Spanish soldiers; others had been enslaved and sent back to Spain. A huge number simply took their own lives rather than live under Spanish rule. Is this really worthy of a celebration and a three-day sale at the local department store?

    LINK

    For the record, Columbus never set foot on the soil that would later be called the United States of America.

    Not as lost as you seem to think (none / 0) (#92)
    by ragebot on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 06:37:53 AM EST
    As some of you may remember I have applied for an educational permit to visit Cuba to mimic what may have been Columbus's first voyage to the New World.  While there is no agreement on just where Columbus first landed everyone seems to agree the 5th or 6th place he landed was the North Coast of Cuba.

    While this book is disputed by some it does offer an interesting theory about where Columbus did land.  The reason I buy into this theory is because at Columbus's third landing he sent his tenders through a reef to get what he described as casks of fresh water.  The only place in the Bahamas where fresh water meets the sea is Andros and the only way his third landfall could be Andros is if the route proposed in the book is correct.  But I am open to other theories.

    Arne Molander who wrote the book spent lots of time sailing in the Bahamas with a transcribed version of Columbus's log (unfortunately the original was lost) and describes the instruments Columbus carried along with Johan Mueller's ephemeris which would allow fairly accurate navigation including how to determine latitude with readings of lunar planetary conjunctions.  The transcribed log indicates unexplained stops at places that offered unobstructed views of these lunar planetary conjunctions.  It is interesting to note Columbus also used the ephemeris's prediction of a total solar eclipse to shock the natives on the DR.

    To a great extent Columbus was a product of his times in dealing with the natives and I am not trying to defend that.  But it is important to note that Columbus was viewed as the greatest navigator of his age.  He spent lots of time studying previous explorers and there is circumstantial evidence he was aware (and some claim was on) a voyage to the New World sponsored by the King of Sweden.

    What separated Columbus for other explores was not that he sailed to the New World, but that he was able to get the lat/long of some of the places he landed and was then able to get back home.

    Parent

    Your Point ? (5.00 / 1) (#104)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 09:10:12 AM EST
    We celebrate and made a national holiday for a man that did not step on United States soil.  Plus, regardless of the times, was a real SOB.

    There is no valid reason for this to be a national holiday.

    For the record, he didn't discover cold fusion, he 'discovered' something that would have inevitably been 'discovered', which was in all likelihood already 'discovered' by the vikings.

    Parent

    Blame Colorado (none / 0) (#108)
    by jbindc on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 09:23:52 AM EST
    Columbus Day first became an official state holiday in Colorado in 1906, and became a federal holiday in the United States in 1937, though people have celebrated Columbus's voyage since the colonial period. In 1792, New York City and other U.S. cities celebrated the 300th anniversary of his landing in the New World. President Benjamin Harrison called upon the people of the United States to celebrate Columbus Day on the 400th anniversary of the event. During the four hundredth anniversary in 1892, teachers, preachers, poets and politicians used Columbus Day rituals to teach ideals of patriotism. These patriotic rituals were framed around themes such as citizenship boundaries, the importance of loyalty to the nation, and celebrating social progress.[3][4][5]

    Many Italian-Americans observe Columbus Day as a celebration of their heritage, the first occasion being in New York City on October 12, 1866.[6] Columbus Day was first enshrined as a legal holiday in the United States through the lobbying of Angelo Noce, a first generation Italian, in Denver. The first statewide Columbus Day holiday was proclaimed by Colorado governor Jesse F. McDonald in 1905, and it was made a statutory holiday in 1907.[7] In April 1934, as a result of lobbying by the Knights of Columbus and New York City Italian leader Generoso Pope, Congress and President Franklin Delano Roosevelt proclaimed October 12 a federal holiday under the name Columbus Day.[7][8][9]

    Since 1970 (Oct. 12), the holiday has been fixed to the second Monday in October,[10] coincidentally exactly the same day as Thanksgiving in neighboring Canada fixed since 1959. It is generally observed nowadays by banks, the bond market, the U.S. Postal Service, other federal agencies, most state government offices, many businesses, and most school districts. Some businesses and some stock exchanges remain open, and some states and municipalities abstain from observing the holiday.[11] The traditional date of the holiday also adjoins the anniversary of the United States Navy (founded October 13, 1775), and thus both occasions are customarily observed by the Navy (and usually the Marine Corps as well) with either a 72- or 96-hour liberty period.

    Link

    Parent

    Missing you all.... (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by Stellaaa on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 01:27:49 PM EST
    Are we ready to rumble?   Another election thought I would see how everyone is doing.  

    Hey, good to see ya! (none / 0) (#60)
    by ruffian on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 03:18:32 PM EST
    Oh yeah, we do some rumbling already.

    Parent
    A breath of fresh air! (none / 0) (#81)
    by oculus on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 09:19:35 PM EST


    Parent
    Welcome back! (none / 0) (#102)
    by jbindc on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 08:35:21 AM EST


    Parent
    Thank heavens (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by lentinel on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 08:00:14 AM EST
    for scamsters who are illiterate.

    I received this email today - allegedly from PayPal.
    It had their logo - and at first glance looked impressive.

    Then, thankfully, it contains some hilarious errors that forunately cancel any sense that this could be authentic.

    It reads:

    Your account has been limited

    Hello Dear .

    We recently have determined that different computers have logged into your account, and multiple password failures were present before the login. Therefore your account has been limited.

    To get back into your PayPaI account, you'll need to update your account information.
    Click here  ,and sing in to your paypaI account , update your account info.


    I love the "sing" into your account.  I yodeled.

    And although I was touched by being addressed as "Hello Dear".,
    I decided to put this little missive into the trash.

    LOL...I got one from someone (5.00 / 2) (#99)
    by ruffian on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 08:06:27 AM EST
    pretending to tell me I am being sued by the IRS. If that were true I'm pretty sure I would have heard about it by now....from the IRS. Else they are really bad at suing people.

    Parent
    I didn't get an email from (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by Zorba on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 01:19:26 PM EST
    these schlubs, but I've gotten two phone calls from them.  I don't answer, but they leave a message.  
    Sure, the IRS is going to be calling me from an unknown number, to tell me that I'm being sued by them.
    There must be a few idiots around who buy into this and respond  (no doubt with their names, addresses, and social security numbers), or they wouldn't bother continuing to do this type of scam.
    I guess there really is a sucker born every minute.

    Parent
    I got a call once too (none / 0) (#122)
    by ruffian on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 01:25:50 PM EST
    they got mad when I just laughed at them. It was pretty funny. I said yeah, I guess I'll see you in court.

    Parent
    LOL! (none / 0) (#126)
    by Zorba on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 02:00:04 PM EST
    I almost never answer calls from an unfamiliar or "unknown" number.
    I've been tempted at times to answer and mess with their heads or make fun of them (assuming it's a "live" caller and not a recording) but pretty much all of the people who are doing the calling are very, very poorly paid workers and not the originators of the scam, and I figure their lives are miserable enough as it is, to get stuck in jobs like this.

    Parent
    Yeah (none / 0) (#123)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 01:26:16 PM EST
    I've gotten messages saying that if I don't respond I am going to get arrested. They have a heavily Indian accent and then when I checked the caller ID they had some kind of funky number. So I then googled and found out it was a scam.

    Parent
    Cubs win again. Cards lose. (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by caseyOR on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 10:18:29 AM EST
    The possibility of a Cubs-Mets matchup for the NL pennant took another step closer to reality last night. Not only did the Cubs take a 2 games to one lead over the Cards. the Mets defeated the LA Utleys, oops, Dodgers.

    Game 4 tonight at Wrigley Field. Cubs could seal the deal tonight. Of course, they could also lose, but what is baseball if not a beacon of hope and promise. In baseball there is always "next year."

    GO, CUBS!!!!!!!!!!!!!🐻⚾️

    Good Luck Tonight... (5.00 / 2) (#116)
    by kdog on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 11:25:06 AM EST
    all goes well, we'll see ya Saturday in Flushing.  Plenty of time to find a black cat;)

    Parent
    Oh nooo....not the black cat! (none / 0) (#120)
    by ruffian on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 01:04:32 PM EST
    I just got a shudder up my spine!

    Cubs fans, have you read 'The Cubs of '69'? You will relive your childhood, and not in a good way. kdog you might like it for a laugh.

    Parent

    In baseball there is always next year? (none / 0) (#115)
    by CoralGables on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 11:06:30 AM EST
    Sounds like a Cubs fan locked into depression prevention mode.

    Parent
    Well, I'm sad :-( (none / 0) (#128)
    by Zorba on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 02:16:54 PM EST
    And the game isn't "tonight," it's at 4:37 PM Eastern time.
    I have my Cardinals t-shirt on, and I'm ready to rumble!
    If the unthinkable happens and the Cubbies win, I'm going to have to think hard about who to root for if the Mets also take it. I've lived in New York, my daughter and her husband live there.  OTOH, I have a lot of relatives in Chicago.
    Of course, if it's the Cubs vs the Dodgers, definitely the Cubs.
    And even if the Dodgers wind up in the World Series, I will root for them over any American League team.  


    Parent
    I would never root for the Dodgers. (none / 0) (#129)
    by oculus on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 02:40:03 PM EST
    How could you????

    Parent
    Only if, (none / 0) (#139)
    by Zorba on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 04:47:10 PM EST
    And I mean really, only if, the horrible happens and they win the National League Championship.
    I could never, ever root for any American League team.
    My father would come back to haunt me if I ever did so.

    Parent
    et al again (1.00 / 3) (#201)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Oct 18, 2015 at 12:51:07 PM EST
    shoephone claims:
    I write about it because you've been hiding and lying about your real military experience for years.

    My one and only claim is that I served 10 years in Naval Aviation. And you cannot show otherwise. So when it comes to lying you lead the parade.

    Yman - Since you have never been in the military it is obvious that I know more about it than you. So your claims are superfluous.

    Again, it is obvious you make such a big deal over Carson's comments because he is a black man leaving the reservation and your personal decision to forego personal defense with or against weapons  leaves you depending on others to do it for you.

    That is pacifism by any name. And is just an extension of the Left's protests against the war in Vietnam.

    Same trouble with AT&T for past 7 months (none / 0) (#3)
    by suzieg on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 02:31:13 AM EST
    To make an extremely long story short, the bottom line is that I've been asked to pay $1,220.00 for their mistake. Moved from Austin to Houston and asked to have the same promotions for long distance calls as I had in Austin which basically cost $5.99 for unlimited calls to Canada and US + $0.10 to UK. along with a regular landline because my husband had just been told by MD Anderson that he had ran out of options and to start researching hospice care. I wanted the reliability of a land line but got Uverse phone service instead. After 3 months of begging for a regular landline, I was finally able to have someone come over and install it but the representative had forgotten to add voice mail. After calling to have it installed, the order was somehow changed for unlimited calls to US only therefore ended up with a $1,220.00 bill. By this time, my husband was not able to come home for hospice care because of lack of phone service and died in the hospital. The calls were to family and friends in Canada and the US where my husband's family and my kids are living. I"ve been telling AT&T to listen to all my recorded calls where i repeatedly asked them if I have the $5.99 plan which they all assured me I did.. I'm always told that it was definitely their fault and that I will have my bill credited but the bill keeps growing because of the penalties for not paying on time. They even cut my service altogether.. I've been  assured it should all be resolved by Friday. I'll never forgive them for all the stress they caused us during this most difficult and sad time!

    suzie - I am so sorry for your loss; (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Anne on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 10:41:39 AM EST
    and then to have been sent down a bureaucratic rabbit hole while trying to deal with your husband's last days, and his eventual death, is just too much.

    I swear I just don't know what's wrong with people; why should something like this have ever gotten to the point that it did?

    I hope you get some resolution to this, finally.

    Parent

    Suzie, I am so very sorry (none / 0) (#40)
    by Zorba on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 12:19:54 PM EST
    This was absolutely horrible.  And totally unacceptable on the part of AT&T.
    You have all my sympathy.  My thoughts are with you.

    Parent
    My sympathies. (none / 0) (#41)
    by oculus on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 12:23:52 PM EST
    When my daughter was in Taipai for a semester almost 10 years ago, my ATT bill for a couple phone calls to her was exorbitant. The company forgave those charges and signed me up for special rates to Taiwan. But a few more calls pre-plan showed up on the next month's bill. No forgiveness for those.

    Parent
    Oh Suzie, I am so sorry (none / 0) (#42)
    by sj on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 12:29:33 PM EST
    It is unforgiveable that you had to deal with this when your focus truly needed to be elsewhere.

    Peace to you and your family.

    Parent

    I've been watching "Indian Summers." (none / 0) (#4)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 02:54:05 AM EST
    It's on the same time as "The Good Wife," and I've decided to catch that show on the rebound.

    I've been watching it too. (none / 0) (#85)
    by desertswine on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 10:38:13 PM EST
    Even tho I can't understand the dialogue about a third of the time.  I don't know if its the accents or if I'm losing my hearing.

    Parent
    That, and I am at the point where I have to freeze (none / 0) (#98)
    by ruffian on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 08:03:55 AM EST
    the replay, get up right next to the TV, and put on my reading glasses to read meaningful documents being held up to the camera with dramatic music in the background. Still not sure I get it, but it will probably be explained next episode.

    All said though, I am really loving the show.

    Parent

    Pistorious Killing Scene becomes Party House (none / 0) (#25)
    by Mr Natural on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 10:52:45 AM EST
    Two business partners have taken out a lease on Pistorius' former home, and they plan on turning it into a "party house," according to a news report from South Africa's News24.

    Footage obtained by Netwerk24 shows the two partners standing both outside and inside Pistorius' former home, toting beers and speaking of their plans to turn the house into a party pad.

    "We're going to decorate the house in honor of what happened here. And then we'll invite people over."
    Anything new in Arkansas drinking water? (none / 0) (#33)
    by christinep on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 11:24:44 AM EST
    Or is Arkansas Repub Senator Tom Cotton just naturally over the edge?  

    It seems the Senator thinks that the House could use stability and order, and has proposed the one with the ability to bring that coalescence: Enter the one, the only Dick Cheney!

    Dr. Paul Krugman, (5.00 / 2) (#36)
    by KeysDan on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 12:02:11 PM EST
    in his NYT article (Oct 12) has other ideas of what is going on: In brief, he says, "crazies have taken over the Republican Party, but the media don't want to recognize this reality.  The combination of these two facts has created an opportunity, indeed, a need, for political con men. And, Mr. (Paul) Ryan has risen to the challenge."

    Ryan, everyone says (except Cotton) is the only one who can save the day (and their bacon). But, Krugman notes that the Republican party is a post-policy enterprise, which does not do real solutions to real problems, and pundits and the media, really do not want to face up to that reality.

     The media is still worshiping at the church of "balance."  Ryan, Krugman holds, is a con man.  He is to fiscal policy what Fiorina was to corporate management: brillant at self-promotion, hopeless at actually doing the job. But his act has been good enough for media work. He even uses power point!

     Ryan is wise to ask around if the the Speaker's job is right for him.  As Romney's running mate his halo was fraying, and, Krugman predicts that a few months as speaker would probably complete the process.

    Parent

    Never got around to replying (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by CoralGables on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 12:12:00 PM EST
    I'm happy to say, although I have never beaten Ryan's falsified marathon time, I smoked his real time at nearly triple the age he was when he ran Grandma's Marathon. Ryan is a putz of a runner.

    Parent
    Eliminate (5.00 / 3) (#56)
    by Zorba on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 01:40:43 PM EST
    the last three words of your final sentence, and you have exactly characterized Ryan in every way.   ;-)

    Parent
    Exactly ... on both the man & the media (none / 0) (#46)
    by christinep on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 12:57:10 PM EST
    Media & pundits: Looking a bit at the Sunday a.m. panel group-talk, the storyline really hasn't changed too much for them in the way of "Trump or not Trump, and how far does he go, and who is this week's flavor" (Reps) countered by "Hillary 'still' ahead in polls, but will Biden jump in & Bernie can draw a crowd" (Dems.) While the Repub Congressional dilemma now draws some concentrated segments, the depth of the matter is not plumbed in any way ... because the cw approach to balance has to be inserted. A kind of somnambulism or trance would characterize this stage.

    Paul Ryan: How do you say pretentious, pompous, & downright phony in a stronger way! Raul defines the "he has a lean & hungry look" character.  Unfortunately--from what I know of Paul Ryan's budget plan to save the county, etc., we better have a back-up plan to survive when he takes his hatchet to all government programs that shore up society.  With him, we would soon find that old W's privatization of Social Security and dissing of related programs like Medicare seemed genuinely helpful & positive compared to Paul Ryan's Ayn Rand model of government. (So, I have mixed feelings about him in the Speaker's role: OTOH, since his draconian views could be exposed earlier in the Speaker's role--thereby ending a potential national office run--I'd want to see him plunge headlong into the House mess.  Yet, the lesser effect on the nation now would be if he squirreled himself away with his pretend accountant's eyeshades.)

    Parent

    The waters fine (none / 0) (#103)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 08:41:22 AM EST
    It's the in breeding.

    Parent
    I expect Utley to be playing tonight (none / 0) (#37)
    by CoralGables on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 12:05:01 PM EST
    Also expect him to win his appeal should they ever actually have the hearing. This play has happened more that a dozen times in the past without a suspension.

    Have you seen any video from (none / 0) (#39)
    by oculus on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 12:19:32 PM EST
    when Utley leaves first base to when he takes out Tejada?  (Yes, I've googled.).

    PS. A Japanese pro catcher friend relates he slif into second cleats up and took out the shortstop, whose injuries ended his pro career.  Then another player did the same to the catcher, who explained, that's how the game is played. No complaining.

    Parent

    Imagine baseball played "open carry" (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by Mr Natural on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 12:32:03 PM EST
    sorry.

    Parent
    Yes indeed. Tejeda (none / 0) (#44)
    by oculus on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 12:34:46 PM EST
    coulda/shoulda.

    Parent
    As a Dodger fan, I'd hope that it's overturned. (none / 0) (#52)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 01:26:49 PM EST
    But as someone who loves the game of baseball, which should not be played as a full-contact sport, I believe that that Utley's suspension is upheld. It was an ugly and dirty play, and while I'm sure that he never intended to break Tejada's leg with that slide, nevertheless there needs to be consequences for such incidents.

    Yes, this sort of thing has happened in the past -- the last time being only a few short weeks ago in Pittsburgh, as a matter of fact, on a slide by the Cubs' Chris Coghlan that was even worse than Utley's -- but Major League Baseball has to finally draw the line here.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    The bum is coming off the bench... (none / 0) (#70)
    by kdog on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 06:28:51 PM EST
    And should be mindful of chin music should Mattingly  call his number. Payback's a b#tch.

    The tackle was one thing, technically illegal but everybody does it...what killed me was the review. Utley never touched second, he gave himself up...shoulda been an out.

    No sense cryin' over spilled milk...it's Harvey time. Let's Go Mets! Beat them sons of b#tches.

    Parent

    Well... (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by Repack Rider on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 07:39:10 PM EST
    Utley never touched second, he gave himself up...shoulda been an out.

    My thought also, but the ruling was that since Utley was declared out on the field before the video reversal, he did not have to touch the bag.  The "safe" call that put him back on second was based on the reversal of the out call on the field.  The rationale was that it was an umpire's mistake to call him out, as Tejada did not touch the bag, and Utley should not have to suffer for another's mistake

    Utley should sit out until Tejada plays again, and both players should have been called out because of runner's interferance.  The four runs scored after that play were the difference in the game.

    Parent

    It should've been a double play, ... (none / 0) (#74)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 07:12:11 PM EST
    ... based on runner interference. I hope the Dodgers consider getting rid of Utley during the off-season. That was just a dirty play.

    More importantly, though, MLB should just amend the damned rules to require that henceforth, a baserunner must slide at the base and not at the nearest infielder, with violators subject to an automatic two-week suspension. There's absolutely no reason for such violent collisions between players of opposing teams to be occurring on purpose. The only legally hard contact in baseball should be bat to ball.

    While I'm obviously rooting for the Dodgers, here's a toast in hope that the remaining games of this series can be played without any further controversy.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    7th inning: Mets 10, Dodgers 4. (none / 0) (#86)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 10:45:16 PM EST
    Maybe that's karma, deciding to bite my Dodgers in the a$$.

    Parent
    BTD and I will likely now mourn (none / 0) (#51)
    by CoralGables on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 01:19:39 PM EST
    the remainder of the Gator season (unless our defense pulls off half a dozen shutouts)

    Why? (none / 0) (#55)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 01:32:40 PM EST
    Just enjoy the rest of the season, and be thankful that Florida didn't hire Steve Sarkisian. They're apparently not waiting until December in Los Angeles.

    Parent
    Sarkisian (none / 0) (#57)
    by CoralGables on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 01:43:34 PM EST
    was never on the Gators radar. We're very happy with McElwain.

    Gator game has been pulled off the board in about half of Vegas.

    Parent

    Losing recruits at USC (none / 0) (#58)
    by CoralGables on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 01:45:16 PM EST
    will move the needle quickly in Los Angeles.

    Parent
    Given how quickly the situation has unraveled ... (none / 0) (#68)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 04:56:53 PM EST
    ... in L.A. since I first commented on the state of USC football last Saturday, I really can't see how Sarkisian will ever be allowed to return to the sidelines as the Trojans' head coach.

    Let me further update that. He won't be returning, because USC has just announced that he's been fired.

    I also believe that at this point, AD Pat Haden's job security is likely problematic as well, unless he's got some serious friends in high places who are willing to shield him from the Schittstorm that's now enveloping the USC athletic department.

    When Sarkisian's hiring was first announced in Dec. 2013, and I remember thinking how odd it was that my alma mater Washington appeared overly eager to hustle him onto the plane to SoCal. Granted, the Huskies likely had Chris Peterson already waiting in their lobby at that particular moment, but per today's story in the Los Angeles Times, I can now see why UW administrators weren't sorry to see him leave.

    I find it very hard to believe that Haden wouldn't have known about any of this baggage prior to making such a decision, particularly since the hard-partying Sarkisian was also a former offensive coordinator during Pete Carroll's tenure as Trojan head coach. He certainly didn't take up binge drinking in response to the long, dark and wet Seattle winters.

    Didn't anybody say anything to Haden about Sarkisian before he made his choice? If nobody did, then why not? Because of the high-profile nature of Trojan football in the greater USC community, the cascading events of these past four days have proved Sarkisian's hiring to be a monumental personnel blunder of the first order.

    Ed Orgeron has got to be laughing at these latest developments.

    Parent

    And here to play Sarkisian offstage... (none / 0) (#72)
    by Mr Natural on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 06:40:31 PM EST
    George Jones and Merle Haggard


    Parent
    Cheers! (none / 0) (#75)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 07:14:14 PM EST
    There's no truth to the current rumor that Coach Sark's nickname is "Cutty."

    Parent
    Hey, I think I identified the original source ... (none / 0) (#78)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 08:24:25 PM EST
    ... of Sarkisian's problems with alcohol: LINK. Living in Provo, UT would certainly drive me to drink.
    ;-D

    Parent
    Oh, now I see why you're in mourning. (none / 0) (#79)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 08:29:58 PM EST
    That's a shame. I have to feel for the kid, because he was having such a good year, too. Maybe Treon Harris will rise to the occasion.

    Parent
    FSU fanboy here (none / 0) (#94)
    by ragebot on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 06:48:43 AM EST
    I am finding something funny about this story which I posted a link to in BTD's football thread.  The Jax paper is reporting the UF program listed Grier's weight as 201 and last year he was listed as 200.  At the preseason presser Grier said he gained 15 pounds in the off season.  The Atlanta paper has claimed Grier has gone from 175 to 225 at UF.  I have no idea which is right and am wondering if some of the UF fanboys can point me in the right direction.

    My understanding is roids help build muscle mass resulting in weight gains so knowing just how much weight Grier has gained is kinda important in determining if this was a simple mistake by the kid or a deliberate act.  I know Jamis gained weight at FSU but if you look at before and after pix Jamis' weight gain seems to be from eating too many crab legs and is concentrated in his gut and butt.

    In any case I am withholding my judgement till I know just how much weight Grier gained and what part of the body gained the weight.  UF has appealed and it is possible Grier could return earlier than expected.  On the other hand he could also face more problems if the Atlanta paper's claim is true.

    Parent

    Your understanding (5.00 / 1) (#130)
    by Repack Rider on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 02:47:25 PM EST
    ...is in contrast to mine.

    My understanding is roids help build muscle mass resulting in weight gains so knowing just how much weight Grier has gained is kinda important in determining if this was a simple mistake by the kid or a deliberate act.

    I have a friend who was a professional bicycle racer on the European circuit, and then a coach for the American team in the big European stage races.  Dude knew more about drug use in sport than anyone I ever met.  He alerted me to the "moon-face" side effect of steroid use, which I have seen in a number of athletes including Ben Johnson, the disgraced sprinter, and Barry Bonds.

    Steroids, he explained, do not in themselves build muscle mass.  Steroids are an aid in recovery from a big effort.  In bicycle stage racing, recovery is everything because the effort is daily.  As my friend pointed out, you don't always win the Tour de France with a good day, but you always lose it with a bad day.

    In a baseball player like Barry Bonds or Mark McGwire, steroids allow them to pile on more workouts in the weight room by shortening the recovery time between workouts, which is why steroids + weight training makes you huge, while steroids + bike racing leaves you skinny.

    Something that DOES make you bigger is Human Growth Hormone or HGH.  Side effects include a gap in the front teeth as the skull grows but the teeth don't, and increased risk of testicular cancer.  Lance Armstrong was very tall for a bike racer, and had testicular cancer.  Hmmm.

    Parent

    Interesting, RR (none / 0) (#138)
    by sj on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 04:32:17 PM EST
    Thank you.

    Parent
    Why don't you withhold your judgment, period? (none / 0) (#119)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 12:59:59 PM EST
    Muscle has greater density than fat, and there are plenty of ways to increase muscle mass in one's body without resorting to the use of steroids. Your not very thinly veiled insinuation that the young Mr. Grier was perhaps cheating is wholly without foundation.

    Parent
    Over the Counter (none / 0) (#131)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 02:51:50 PM EST
    Florida Gators quarterback Will Grier has been suspended for one year for violating NCAA rules, coach Jim McElwain announced Monday.

    Grier tested positive for a performance-enhancing substance that was found in an over-the-counter supplement, McElwain said. The positive test carries an automatic suspension of one calendar year from the NCAA, meaning Grier would not be eligible to return until Florida's seventh game of the 2016 season. He would have redshirt sophomore status at that time, a Florida spokesperson said.

     LINK

    While we don't know what the substance was, he certainly wasn't taking steroids.  Performance Enhancing Drugs is a broad and huge grouping which includes ADHD meds, and a lot of things found in over-the-counter products, like caffeine & PPA, which can be found in cough medicine & nutritional supplements.

    Here is a pdf of banned substances in the NCAA.

    A year for something that anyone can purchase is ridiculous IMO.  I wonder how many NCAA members would unknowingly fail their own tests.

    Parent

    Sunday TV...anyone watching Project Greenlight (none / 0) (#61)
    by ruffian on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 03:22:55 PM EST
    on HBO? It's the Ben Affleck/Matt Damon produced reality show about the director they selected directing a low budget independent film that will be shown on HBO.

    I love this kind of stuff, so I am hooked. they director they chose may be a good director - that remains to be seen, but he does not get the concept of low budget, so bumps heads with the line producer often. It is her job to be the one that says no to his 'dreams'.

    I don't particularly like the movie they are making. Supposed to be a comedy of manners but does not look that funny to me. Maybe the finished product will be ok.

    An announcement just came down (none / 0) (#77)
    by CoralGables on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 08:20:53 PM EST
    that will make all Gator fans reminisce.

    Saint Steve has announced his retirement. The ol' ball coach is hanging em up.

    Fargo- wow, gonna be good! (none / 0) (#83)
    by ruffian on Mon Oct 12, 2015 at 10:28:52 PM EST


    It really looks like it (none / 0) (#134)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 04:02:46 PM EST
    I love the look.  The saturated palette and 70s colors.

    Great cast.  

    The Knick starts next weekend.

    Parent

    The first episode was wierd. (none / 0) (#152)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Oct 14, 2015 at 12:28:32 AM EST
    I'll have to stick with the series, and eventually it will all make sense.

    Parent
    The intelligent debate takes place tonight (none / 0) (#96)
    by CoralGables on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 07:38:01 AM EST
    Sanders gets a chance to make a dent in the huge lead held by Clinton.

    The latest hint by Biden that he won't decide until much later this year just about confirms that Joe is only in if for some reason (death, illness) Hillary is out.

    A new Morning Consult national poll released this morning leaving Biden out (he's not a candidate so no reason to list him in the poll) shows the dominance of Hillary going into tonight's debate:
    Clinton +31

    Another black eye for CNN (none / 0) (#100)
    by ragebot on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 08:21:28 AM EST
    and Morning Joe as well.

    Not to mention Jeb Bush and Kelly Ayotte.

    It seems like the plant is trying to scrub her online activities after the fact.  When will folks things on the internet are on there forever.

    link

    Wanna bet you won't see anything about CNN screwing the pooch much of anywhere, but if someone did this to Hillary it would be all over the MSM.

    A Bush plant! (none / 0) (#101)
    by CoralGables on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 08:32:36 AM EST


    Parent
    Question (none / 0) (#137)
    by FlJoe on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 04:28:44 PM EST
    Does the name Ted Strauss ring a bell with anyone?
    A "midwestern businessman"  who just maybe  running for the Republican nomination.

    What??? (none / 0) (#143)
    by Zorba on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 05:26:21 PM EST
    The only Ted Strauss I have ever heard of was a Texas businessman and philanthropist who died, I think, last year, at an advanced age.

    Parent
    Thats (none / 0) (#145)
    by FlJoe on Tue Oct 13, 2015 at 06:14:53 PM EST
    the only one I googled, but I saw that name in a  very legitimate context. I can't elaborate any further on that right now.

    I am guessing Ted is a straw candidate, but I have reason to believe there is yet another rich Republican out there thinking about jumping in.

    Parent

    shoephone (none / 0) (#202)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Oct 19, 2015 at 12:26:05 PM EST
    I served from 1989-1992, my foreign war was the Gulf War, not Vietnam.  I also want to be clear, that although I have medals for going to southwest Asia, during the war, I in no way fought in what most would deem as war.  I was on a ship, a helicopter carrier, that did not engage in battle.

    I would also add that the Gulf War was 6 months long and that anyone in the area was deemed to have participated, hence my official status of a veteran of a foreign war.  We got hazardous duty pay(flight deck), combat pay(war), and did not pay any taxes for over a year.

    Sunday Open Thread | 202 comments (202 topical)