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Tuesday Morning Open Thread

I've got a busy day at work and our old open thread is full. Here's a new one, all topics open.

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    Watch out for Yellowjackets (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 08:13:59 AM EST
    They may be small but the hurt like he11.
    My dogs found some and refpgretted it.  Two legs or six, hurt my dogs and we have a problem so I went after them.  I won but they git me a few times.  I can't believe how much the little
    SOBs hurt.

    In response to Donald's comment (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by fishcamp on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 09:05:19 AM EST
    in the previous open thread Scotland would not become a country without a currency if they separated.  One year after the Bank of England was established and printing British pounds the Bank of Scotland was formed and began printing Scottish pounds which they still do.  These Scottish banknotes are begrudgingly accepted in England since they are regulated by the Bank of England.  It was the dreaded regulators from England that caused the many battles depicted in the "Outlanders".  If Scotland does separate from England their banknotes would still be based on Sterling as are the banknotes of the Crown dependencies of Jersey, Guernsey, and the Isle of Mann.  There are also fourteen Overseas Territories that print their own notes that are based on Stirling but not accepted in England.

    Parent
    Please read Paul Krugman's column. (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 11:54:58 AM EST
    "I have a message for the Scots: Be afraid, be very afraid. The risks of going it alone are huge. You may think that Scotland can become another Canada, but it's all too likely that it would end up becoming Spain without the sunshine."

    Basically, Krugman says that because Canada has its own currency, its government can't go broke, and can rescue its own banks in the event of a financial crisis.

    But because an independent Scotland would continue to peg its Scottish pound as a monetary equivalent of England's pound sterling, its government would not be able to effectively intervene in the event of a financial crisis involving its banks, without assistance (and perhaps permission) from London:

    "If Spain and the other countries that gave up their own currencies to adopt the euro were part of a true federal system, with shared institutions of government, the recent economic history of Spain would have looked a lot like that of Florida. Both economies experienced a huge housing boom between 2000 and 2007. Both saw that boom turn into a spectacular bust. [...] In Florida's case, most of the fiscal burden of the slump fell not on the local government but on Washington. [...] Spain, by contrast, bore all the costs of the housing bust on its own. The result was a fiscal crisis, made much worse by fears of a banking crisis that the Spanish government would be unable to manage, because it might literally run out of cash."

    That's what Krugman is saying.

    Parent

    Donald, thank you for referring (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by fishcamp on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 12:31:58 PM EST
    me to Paul Krugman's column and what you both say may well be true.  I was merely pointing out the fact that Scotland would not be a country without a currency.  Quite frankly I doubt they will separate since they are a country of only five million people and realize they must stay with hated England.  I wonder what he thinks about the other seventeen or so countries like the Falklands that did separate, print their own currency, and are still in existence?

    Parent
    Most people don't know that ... (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 01:29:19 PM EST
    ... during the Second World War, the Territory of Hawaii actually had its own currency. Upon approval of the Treasury Dept., the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco overprinted federal reserve notes and silver certificates with the word "HAWAII," which were then issued for exclusive use in the islands, and were good nowhere else.

    This was done so that any U.S. currency seized during a Japanese invasion and occupation of Hawaii would be rendered worthless, should the Japanese later attempt to circulate the notes elsewhere. Today, the Hawaii notes are considered very rare and almost priceless by collectors, since most of them were collected and destroyed by the Treasury Dept. after the war's end.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Wax, dab, hash oil, and other exciting thing (5.00 / 3) (#12)
    by Lfrieling on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 08:58:02 AM EST
    Let's get real. Are wax, dab, and other pot extracts really  the scourge of pot, the newest form of Devil's Lettuce? Demon in the world of legalized pot?  As usual as one would expect, the press waxes eloquent, claiming everything from "dangerous" to "will cause instant death after you eat the neighbor's babies."  The reality?  I can share my decades of experiences with bud and my latest legal experience with wax,  

    Here's how strong it is, IMO.  One hit of what well could have been one of the best waxes extant got me similarly high as smoking 1/2 a joint of the best pot I've ever run into.  1/2 joint by weight of wax is WAY stronger than bud.  BUT no one smokes more than a match head or two of concentrate.  ONE toke of the "best" was more than enough.  One big toke was perhaps a little too strong.  A little.  Lets compare apples to apples.  Weight to weight.

    Treat extracts with caution?  Of course.  They are strong, and if poorly made, retain some butane taste, if it was a butane extraction.  Many prefer "bubble hash," which uses a water or steam extraction.  (Not sure which)   Are there timing issues like edibles?  No. Not scientifically, and not in reality.   Timing is about the same as with bud.  The active delta 9  THC in blood rises quite rapidly with vaporized or smoked bud.  Wax behaves similarly.  Like very strong pot , the high comes fast, and does not last particularly long.  (several hours perhaps).  

    30-50 x stronger?  No way unless you smoke equal weights of each. . Of course that is not done, and probably could not be done.  A full strong dose of wax might be a match-head,  separated into several tokes.  How can you compare a match-head with a full gram; one joint?  You can't!
    HREF ="www.Lfrieling.com">Lenny

    Calling Maureen Dowd (none / 0) (#13)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 09:03:42 AM EST
    Thanks for these breath of air posts.

    Parent
    Well said Lenny... (none / 0) (#69)
    by kdog on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 01:20:32 PM EST
    once people get used to and respect the potency of wax and adjust dosage accordingly, it will just be another less harmful option to get stoned along with edibles and vaporizing. Less or no smoke = same effect = healthier option.  We should cheer the wax as part of a well-balanced offering of cannabis options for users medicinal and recreational, not fear the wax.

    Parent
    Tom of Finland Stamp a Hit (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by squeaky on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 09:06:26 AM EST
    Tom of Finland stamps are out and the most popular stamps Finland has ever produced.....  OK too soon to tell..

    It's too early to tell how the stamps will stack up against other series in terms of total sales. But the postal service said that the Tom of Finland stamps were already the most popular ever in terms of media attention. "Our aim is to keep printing stamps which are in line with our time," Posti spokesman Markku Penttinen noted when announcing the success to the news agency.


    Do you collect stamps? (none / 0) (#97)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 03:10:41 PM EST
    Hahaha (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by squeaky on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 03:20:58 PM EST
    No, but I have seen a lot of Tom of Finland shows at Feature gallery run by the late great Hudson.

    Tom of Finland was never my cup of tea but I liked the kitchy and in your face gay pride aspect of it all..  

    Parent

    I collect TofF (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 03:31:17 PM EST
    I don't have the stamp yet though.  Should probably get on that.

    Parent
    New Rules in the NFL (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 09:59:27 AM EST
    Apparently, no one really cares that Ray Rice knocked his gf out because this was information everyone had a month or two ago.  Rice admitted to it and his gf said she provoked it.  We saw him dragging her unconscious body out of the elevator.  

    What in the hell did people think happened in the elevator.  I know, go look at what Rice said he did, he hit her.  People don't lose consciousness from a punch on the arm, they lose it from getting punched very hard in the head, or so hard that their head hits something on they way down.  In this case, looks like both.

    Who cares if they saw the video, they already knew what happened, there was no new information released yesterday.  The NFL, Goodell, and the Ravens organization is trying to sell that they didn't realize ___ until the video was released.  

    Realized what, that when an NFL player hits his woman so hard she loses consciousness, is a GD disturbing thing ?  Same with fans, Sunday they cheered Ray Rice, today so disgusted, they turning in his jersey for free drinks.

    I am not sure what is bothering me more, the fact nearly everyone is playing the 'I did not see the video' card, as if that is some valid reason for not punishing a wife/gf beater in the NFL.  Or that Ray Rice is being held accountable for their errors in judgment, to a degree I would call extremely excessive.  'Banned until further notice' is Goodell trying to save his own a$$ by waiting for the public's reaction.  The problem with that is the reaction is the reaction of idiots who don't seem to think domestic violence is a big deal unless they actually see it, then it's the most heinous thing they have ever witnessed.

    Ray Rice should not have been playing for most of the year, if not all.  But that punishment should have been doled out regardless of video evidence.  No one has ever disputed what happened in the elevator, including Rice.  

    I hope the players union goes to the wire for him in insisting that a person should be 'tried' twice for the same incident when not one fact has changed except public opinion.  The NFL screwed up, Rice should not have to pay for their mistakes.  They had their chance to get their pound of flesh and they took a slap on the wrist. A video showing exactly what was already known is not a valid reason to re-punished Ray Rice.

    But the media has already latched onto 'who saw the video' and they are going to nail people for either seeing it, or not seeing it.  The real and obvious question they should be asking:

    Why do you need to see a video of undisputed events, to dole out a fair punishment ?

    I should be happy in that at least someone cares now.  But this is domestic violence, grown a$$ men hitting their women, and for most of the victims, they do not have the luxury of being famous or having the abuse caught on video.

    Hopefully in the future, people will not need a video to understand that domestic violence is a GD ugly thing and stop giving hard workers and nice guys the benefit of the doubt, when there is no doubt about the assault.

    There is a reason Rice waiting until the elevator to hit her.  The NFL and Ravens fans validated it.  Had the video not been 'stolen' and released, we might not even know about the incident.

    Some Gallows Humor... (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by kdog on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 10:40:55 AM EST
    making the rounds on the internet.

    NFL Lackey: Commissioner, Wes Welker dropped Molly.
    Goodell: 2 Game Suspension.
    NFL Lackey: Molly is a drug, sir.
    Goodell: Make that 4 Games.

    Parent

    Janay Rice: "This is the media's fault." (5.00 / 2) (#47)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 12:05:31 PM EST
    She, too, doesn't see the big picture:

    "No one knows the pain that [the] media & unwanted options from the public has caused my family. To make us relive a moment in our lives that we regret every day is a horrible thing. To take something away from the man I love that he has worked his ass [off] for all his life just to gain ratings is horrific. THIS IS OUR LIFE! What don't you all get. If your intentions were to hurt us, embarrass us, make us feel alone, take all happiness away, you've succeeded on so many levels."

    Oy.

    Parent

    Guess we saw that the (none / 0) (#86)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 02:01:52 PM EST
    Advice of "Fox&Fiends" was "take the stairs"?

    A little blow back I guess -

    CO-HOST BRIAN KILMEADE: Comments that we made during this story yesterday made some feel like we were taking the situation too lightly. We are not. We were not. Domestic abuse is a very serious issue to us, I can assure you.

    Guess some Fox viewers still have a pulse.

    Parent

    Re: Big Picture (none / 0) (#114)
    by vicndabx on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 03:51:59 PM EST
    She probably doesn't see it because to her, this is a personal matter between her and her husband.  The big picture is irrelevant when you are the picture.

    People should be allowed to be forgiven for their mistakes. Those who were not directly impacted should tamp down on the outrage IMO.

    I do not condone violence against women. Punishment when applicable and counseling where appropriate to deal with the root cause of the violence is what is needed.

    This couple, it appears at least, we're trying to work it out (counseling, classes for the offender.) Now, because of the media's and our's fascination with the downfall of others, two lives will likely not be able to obtain the happiness comes with financial security.


    Parent

    I feel empathy for Janay Rice. (5.00 / 1) (#118)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 04:00:34 PM EST
    But that was her husband who laid her out cold in that Atlantic City elevator, not the media or the NFL. Like it or not, domestic violence is no longer considered a private family matter. It's now everyone's concern.

    Parent
    I agree (none / 0) (#123)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 04:09:10 PM EST
    Squeak was talking below, or above, about consensual violent relationships.  I have been around enough to know this is a complex and personal subject.  However.  If you are a public figure, particularly one who so many young men look to as a role model - sorry, to bad if you didn't want to be one.  It comes with the big paycheck IMO -  it takes it to another level.  

    Parent
    Elephant in the Room (5.00 / 3) (#99)
    by squeaky on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 03:15:45 PM EST
    What bothers me is that when two several hundred pound men smash their heads into one another, causing brain damage, the fans love it.

    And then the fans are shocked when one of these players who have been trained on testosterone, adrenaline and fearless bullying, act badly in public.

    The sport should be banned.

    Players are fodder for the entertainment moguls. They get brain damage by the time they are 40 and then out of a job with little resources to live out the rest of their sad life.

    Parent

    You can't be everyone's mom (5.00 / 1) (#104)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 03:29:15 PM EST
    I don't watch football.  But lots of people love it.  Probably the players most of all.  I don't watch boxing, same there.  You can't tell people they can't do this stuff.   if you tried all that would happen is that it would go underground and probably be way more violent and dangerous.  

    My nephew was on track for a full scholarship as a quarterback.  He was good.  In one of his last high school games he dislocated his shoulder.  They popped it back and he went back in the game.  He did it again.  They popped it back and he went in AGAIN.  Now, this is ridiculous.  I admit.  Outrageous in fact IMO that his coach and parents, who were there allowed it.  But they did.  His shoulder was damaged so badly the scholarship was history.   I only relate this story as an example of how obsessive some people are about this stuff.

    You simply can't make the kind of rules you are talking about.  Not to mention if someone was suggesting it about something you like you would be screaming from the rooftops about the police state.

    Parent

    Being Mom, Certainly Not My Point (5.00 / 2) (#107)
    by squeaky on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 03:36:07 PM EST
    I do not really care about those who chose to get into violent relationships, or violent sports. That is their business. Sad exploitation, but a adult choice.

    What I do find disturbing is that people love to see other humans get damaged for entertainment under certain conditions and shudder under different ones.

    It is almost like a switch gets turned off that makes violence ok, yet unbearable when the switch gets turned on.

    Parent

    Not At All (2.00 / 0) (#131)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 04:35:09 PM EST
    I am sure there are people who like that aspect, but my guess is 99% of sports fans would love it if no one ever got hurt, regardless of the sport.

    Injury is a part of life and even more a part of sports life.  It what happens to the body when you push it.  If blood lust was what people wanted, the endless rules and constant review and adjustment would not be necessary.  Every precaution is made to keep players from getting hurt.  They aren't always successful, but keeping people healthy equates to success in the NFL, period.

    That being said, I would try like hell to steer my kid from football, maybe going as far as not letting them.  But then I wouldn't want my kid digging ditches for a career, or working at a chemical company, or being a cop.  But it's not really my choice in the end.

    These are willing participants who love the game and are well aware of the risks.  There is so much information, form the web to the NFL, to documentaries that anyone making that choice has the ability to make an educated choice.  No different that people going into the Marines when we were engaged in tow wars, there is a good chance they are going to get hurt.

    It's why I think drugs should be legal, in a free society we all have the right to engage in behavior others find risky or dangerous.  And the guys doing it in the NFL are getting paid, from a college education, if they choose to participate, to that big fat contract.  The path is littered with bodies, but that is human nature, to go for the gold.  Not everyone can get it, but at some point in that path there are other opportunities that most squander, but they are there.

    I do think the NFL needs to devise some sort of program to ensure that players making millions a year aren't filing bankruptcy 5 years later.  I forget the stat, but its more people than not.  They do provide a lifetime of the best health care, something many people who have dangerous jobs are not afforded.   Something collegiate athletes are not afforded as well.

    You are acting as if men who don't play in the NFL, don't hit women.  That somehow the NFL is responsible for violence just because a portion of their job is violent.  That is simply not true, men have been hitting women long before football.

    Unlike gladiators, injury is not the point of the game, it's a byproduct.  The assumption that fans are tuning in to see people tear each other apart is uniformed at best, and simply not true.  Every sport has fans, so stop insisting that football fans are there for any other reason than fans of soccer or tennis.  The game is different, but the same fans tune in to the Olympics, baseball, and other sports because they like competition, especially if they can relate to the team geographically.

    It's interesting that you posted a link to S&M artwork, but have this great hatred of violence.  Isn't that exploiting willing participants committing violent acts, or has S&M gone all PC.  

    Parent

    Life is full of switches (none / 0) (#111)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 03:43:27 PM EST
    All we can do is shame this behavior and spotlight it.  Which is why I have a big problem with the victims reaction to the press coverage.  IMO that's when it crosses the line from enabling you own abuser to enabling others

    Parent
    Yes (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by squeaky on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 03:55:48 PM EST
    I had the toughest time eating Uni.. reminded me of diarrhea..

    Could not even get my taste buds working with a mouthful of the stuff because I was squinching myself up so much at the idea of it.

    And I am a foodie, and know that Uni is considered one of the greatest delicacies.

    Went to a top Sushi place, sat at the bar, got Omikase, and told the sushi chef what Uni reminded me of, but really wanted to like it.  

    He plied me with the stuff, narrative as to what little bay in Japan it came from (pre nuke accident), and I was converted.. love it now.

    Still I do not think I could eat dog, rat, snake, monkey brain.. I think that the switches are fused shut for me, on those delicacies.

    Parent

    Confession time (5.00 / 1) (#120)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 04:03:18 PM EST
    I had to google to know what you were talking about.  Nope.  I'll pass.  The you tube video almost made me urk.

    Parent
    Capt, the coaches violated (5.00 / 1) (#189)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Sep 10, 2014 at 07:47:39 AM EST
    every rule when they did that. A dislocated shoulder on a high school player calls for him to be transported to a a medical facility for treatment and then not allowed to play again until he has been cleared by medical staff.

    And the parents cannot allow or disallow.

    I hope he sued the coaches and I hope they were banned from coaching.

    Parent

    Football is too American to be banned (none / 0) (#109)
    by Slado on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 03:37:32 PM EST
    We simply love it way to much.

    Yes it has it's issues but kids and adults are just as likely to suffer terrible injuries playing other sports and nobody is looking to ban them.

    The NFL does have some culture issues but so does any sport.

    I mean does anyone think a boxer or UFC fighter might have some anger issues?

    The NFL should catch some major heat for this episode and if that leads to meaningful change, good.

    Parent

    Yes (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by squeaky on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 03:47:42 PM EST
    Skiing is tough on the body too..

    It irks me that so much money is made on these people and they wind up suffering, and struggling financially..  but you are right, many of them would rather do nothing else..  so be it.

    One thing a famous (jewish?) boxer said (1930's?) when asked: what makes a great boxer?

    The answer was being really poor.

    There have been boxers who were not really poor but, at least during a certain time in US history that may have been the case.

    Parent

    Zactly what the man of this house said too (5.00 / 1) (#193)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 10, 2014 at 08:29:19 AM EST
    What?  Gladiators don't treat women well?  Who'd a thunk?

    Something that puzzles me sometimes too, the female hockey fans screaming for them to knock each other's teeth out, that attend anti- war rallies the next weekend :). It's just strange

    Parent

    Good points (none / 0) (#29)
    by Slado on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 10:30:39 AM EST
    ESPN had Ed Werder on this morning and his sources at the Ravens said that the video matches the description of events that Ray Rice described to the Ravens, police and NFL following the initial incident.

    So the video is simply visual confirmation of what was already known.

    So what happened yesterday?   The NFL and the Ravens were forced to confront visually what they had done in suspending for two games (NFL) and standing behind Ray Rice (Ravens).

    Keep in mind the Ravens told us what a great guy Ray Rice was, how sorry he was, how this was a learning experience, let him practice with the team throughout training camp and he even got an ovation fromt he home town fans Sunday.

    I never understood how this guy wasn't in more trouble after the first video.   We all knew that he'd punched her so hard she was unconcious and Ray Rice never lied or told us otherwise.

    Now we see what we knew we were going to see and everyone is outraged?

    Disgusting.    The NFL and the Ravens should be ashamed.

    I don't know what to think of the local PD.   I am sure there is legal precedent to show if this is unusual or not expected.   I would assume this has a lot to do with the victim as far as charges etc...   I'd love to hear from Jeralyn or other lawyers as to what would normally happen to a non sports star.

    But as for the NFL and the Ravens they have been exposed as enablers and pathetic and should issue an apology for how they've handled this.

     

    Parent

    As long as people didn't see the punch, ... (5.00 / 2) (#51)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 12:28:50 PM EST
    ... they could cling to their illusions about what actually happened. For sure, the images of a knocked-out Janay Palmer-Rice laying prone in a hotel elevator door were disturbing enough, but so long as we never actually SAW the knockout punch being landed, we could console ourselves with the illusion that nobody really knew what went on inside that elevator.

    The release of the hotel elevator's surveillance video removed all doubt whatsoever, and was the equivalent of a bucket of ice water poured over our heads, without the benefit of any pledges going to charity.

    One should never discount or dismiss the powerful effect of visual imagery on the collective consciousness of a populace. We should remember that the Vietnam War continued to remain a noble cause in the minds of many Americans, until the public glimpsed compelling images of a just-napalmed 10-year-old girl running naked down a country road, a South Vietnamese officer summarily executing a Viet Cong prisoner in a Saigon street, and dead Vietnamese villagers in My Lai who'd been massacred by American troops.

    That's why when people are in the position to do so, they try so very hard to suppress compromising photos and video as they think necessary, so that they might continue to control the public narrative. And at this point, thanks to TMZ, neither Ray and Janay Rice, the Baltimore Ravens nor the NFL are in control of that narrative, and the public will demand accountability and satsifaction.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    You are of course correct (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by Slado on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 01:19:27 PM EST
    but to me personally the original video was pretty alarming as you saw him carrying a women drunk or knocked out.

    When we learned he confessed to the crime it was simply alarming that he was not going to be seriously prosecuted and only received a 2 game suspension.

    Maybe the teaching moment will be going forward that a victims account is enough to illicit a harsh reaction.

    I'm still confused about the law on this one.  Is he getting off light?

    Parent

    It would appear so. (2.00 / 0) (#81)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 01:43:36 PM EST
    But according to New Jersey law, it's fully within the discretion of state authorities to allow a first-time offender to enter a pre-trial diversion program, which would allow the defendant to clear his or her record upon completion of the program. In many other states like Hawaii, the defendant would first have to enter a DAG plea with the court, "deferred acceptance of guilt," before being allowed into such a program. But apparently in New Jersey, such discretion is left to prosecutors, and not necessarily the courts.

    Therefore, if Ray Rice "got off lightly," that would be an issue for the New Jersey legislature to remedy for future miscreants. But for the authorities to now renege on their agreement with Rice, in light of this video's release, that would in my opinion amount to a gross violation of the defendant's constitutional right to due process.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    I agree with you (none / 0) (#103)
    by Slado on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 03:27:33 PM EST
    too late for the cops or court to change their mind.  


    Parent
    Come On... (5.00 / 2) (#85)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 01:58:55 PM EST
    ...while that makes a lot of sense, the criminal justice system manages to dole out punishment to millions each year without videos.  Most of what you mentioned above was unknown, not events in which people did a 180 after seeing it on video.

    How does the NFL go from 2 weeks to indefinite when the facts of the case are the same.

    As far as I can tell the only people really upset are the ones who glossed over the story over when it originally happened.  They keep acting like the video is new evidence, when it only confirms what everyone already knew.

    The only thing I learned form the video, is he's got a damn good left, I assumed he used his right, which has me wondering if he's left handed.  Just checked, he is right handed, but his only completion was a left handed throw.  Ambidextrous I guess.

    Parent

    But that's the criminal justice system. (5.00 / 1) (#115)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 03:54:01 PM EST
    Rather, I was speaking to the effect of video imagery in the forming of public opinion.

    The NFL is a powerful institution that has millions and millions of fans, and let's face it, there were tons of people who were more than willing to continue making excuses for Ray Rice, even after the first video of the incident came to light last May. Sadly, others latched onto Janay Palmer's apology, in which she implied that she had somehow provoked her fiancé into committing physical violence upon her, and deserved what she got.

    Yes, we knew implicitly what Ray Rice did, even before yesterday's TMZ video release. But as long as some people didn't actually see Janay Palmer getting coldcocked, they could rationalize that while the earlier May video looked bad, they didn't really know what actually happened inside that elevator. Yesterday's video release served to rip the blinders off, and many of these same people are now suddenly finding it a lot harder to excuse what Rice did.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Ana Mendieta (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by squeaky on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 04:01:57 PM EST
    I wonder if the art world would have felt differently if they saw a video of Carl Andre punching Ana Mendieta so hard that she flew out of the window.

    Many saw them punching each other out in real life on a regular basis, drunk.

    He of course outweighed her by 100 lbs.

    No one spoke up at Carl Andre's trial. Guess they did not want to ruin their own careers, or believed, sad as it was, an agreed on violent relationship.

    Parent

    Had there been video evidence ... (5.00 / 1) (#164)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 07:46:21 PM EST
    ... of the encounter, I think it would've probably been harder for people in the art world to rationalize what happened to Ana Mendieta. No doubt, there are a lot of dysfunctional and co-dependent relationships out there, but nobody deserves to be violently brutalized, regardless of the relationship's circumstances.

    Parent
    Hmmm (5.00 / 1) (#179)
    by squeaky on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 11:35:22 PM EST
    Not sure anyone in the art world rationalized her death. Their violent relationship was not a secret, lots of physical fighting in public. No one would testify against Andre. Everyone who knew them assumed it was another fight that ended tragically.

    I guess if there were a video, no witnesses would have to be called. Her death would be clearly an accident or intentional ... or somewhere in between.

    Parent

    Interesting and informative story (2.00 / 0) (#133)
    by Zorba on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 04:43:42 PM EST
    Thanks, squeaky.  I was not at all aware of this.

    Parent
    Yes (5.00 / 2) (#143)
    by squeaky on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 05:19:41 PM EST
    She was a great artist!

    Parent
    Well, there still are people like (2.00 / 0) (#38)
    by jbindc on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 11:12:10 AM EST
    this (FOX NEWS)

    Parent
    What did you think of the vampire (none / 0) (#33)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 10:41:33 AM EST
    On the strain.  Honestly, I thought he looked a little goofy.   Still love the show but IMO he was way more creepy under the hood.

    Parent
    Happened again today - someone asked me (5.00 / 2) (#144)
    by Angel on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 05:21:29 PM EST
    what my country of origin was.  I said, "I'm American, born here in Texas." They said I sounded Australian. :)

    You know, I never (5.00 / 1) (#148)
    by sj on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 05:32:20 PM EST
    understood the flack that Madonna got for having a bit of a Brit accent after living in London for several years. I think it's inevitable -- especially for someone who is sensitive to the nuances of sound.

    For years I worked in Colorado for a Louisiana based company. After many -- often extended -- trips to LA, I found myself picking up speech patterns when I would be talking to someone from the home office.

    More embarrassing than that was a kitchen encounter with an employee of a company where I was interviewing. After a nice interaction with a lovely older (and Southern) gentleman, he asked me where, in the South, I was from. I had to admit that my accent was acquired after spending extended time in LA. At least he didn't think I was making fun of him...

    Parent

    Mordiggian88: (5.00 / 4) (#210)
    by Anne on Wed Sep 10, 2014 at 11:11:10 AM EST
    First of all, take a reading comprehension class:  I gave you "grief" because you wanted to make assumptions and dream up scenarios based on the limited information provided by the initial video.  I'm terribly sorry if you don't like being reminded that the words you had people saying and the thoughts you had them thinking were figments of your imagination, but we really try here not to peddle that kind of BS.  Do I have to remind you that until Rics's case was adjudicated, neither he nor his wife said one single word to the media?  

    Second, I made quite clear, numerous times, that I was not defending Rice - I was trying to get you - and others - to stop stating as facts things that had not been established as facts at all.  If that's too complicated for you, perhaps we've identified at least part of what your problem is.

    Third, I'm allowed to revise my opinions based on new information.  I didn't run from that information, I didn't try to make it into something less than what we all saw, I didn't make excuses for Rice.  I expressed my disgust and my disappointment, both appropriate expressions for the reality of that video - as well as for the unbelievably terrible way the whole thing has been handled from the NFL to Ravens management to the courts and law enforcement.

    Finally, it appears that what's really bothering you is that no one's rushing to your defense, and you seem to resent that others have supported my comments.  In part, that's because you've given people the impression that in your other life, you're an a$$hole, and that's not tolerated well here.  I can only conclude that your erudite recitation of a quote meant to insult was delivered in front of the mirror.


    To NYShooter at #150 (5.00 / 1) (#213)
    by ruffian on Wed Sep 10, 2014 at 03:58:17 PM EST
    No offense taken!

    For the record I NEVER would camp outside or even stand in line. They want me to buy something they can dang well make it easy! Which they do - I always pre-order at zero-dark-thirty the first day, and have it delivered to my door.

    I am TOTALLY (2.00 / 0) (#3)
    by jbindc on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 07:53:09 AM EST
    gonna do this with my BF

    Photos (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 08:23:40 AM EST
    Please.  It's worth noting that everyone I knew in the 70s would have thought those looked just as stupid then as now.

    Parent
    I think my sister and I had t hose outfits (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by ruffian on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 09:29:44 AM EST
    In our defense, we were 10-12 and our mom bought our clothes.

    Parent
    Elephant Bells! (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 09:40:38 AM EST
    Do you remember them?  When bell bottoms weren't enough so they would start the bell below the knee.

    I had to have elephant bells.  Can't believe I could even walk down the hall in grade school without tripping on myself :)

    Parent

    You (5.00 / 3) (#35)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 10:55:05 AM EST
    are bringing back memories of me having elephant leg hillbilly cut cordurory pants in 7th grade. LOL. You had to wear body suits with them.

    Parent
    I completely forgot body suits :) (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 02:27:54 PM EST
    How could you (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 03:01:25 PM EST
    forget about them? They were such a hassle. Or at least that's how I remember them.


    Parent
    ... back then, yours truly not excepted. I look back at family photos from that era, and can only laugh and wonder what we were all thinking.

    And just think, all that was just from a 1970 JC Penney's catalogue! The '70s still had another ten years to go, and we had yet to endure the subsequent onslaught of denim from Miller's Outpost and bombardment of polyester from Angel's Flight, not to mention the tsunami of leisure suits from Heaven only knows where.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Ah (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 01:10:20 PM EST
    but are you shameless enough to share them?

    More gold from the photo trunk.  If I remember we were on our was to a Moody Blues concert.  Can you guess what was in the belt bag?

    Halo purely accidental.

    Parent

    Sadly (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 01:12:05 PM EST
    Bell bottoms were not included in this photo.  But trust me, they were there.

    Parent
    Heavens to Mergatroid! LOL! (5.00 / 2) (#89)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 02:14:29 PM EST
    You look like a refugee from "The Rockford Files," or the Jack Lord-era incarnation of "Hawaii Five-O." And you're right -- that IS shameless, especially the tight jeans and hair! As far as what's in the bag is concerned, no doubt it was something to be lit up and passed down the row during the concert.

    I never really learned to appreciate the Moody Blues until later in life. I always associated them with "Nights in White Satin," a rather pretentious and overplayed song which I came to despise, so much so that my college roommate and I used to regularly ridicule its "Breathe Deep, the Gathering Gloom" soliloquy during bong sessions with our fellow dormies. Now, when heard within the context if their concept album "Days of Future Passed," I finally understand the song's significance.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    You didn't mention the choker (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 02:22:56 PM EST
    Funny you say that about the MBs. I was never a fan but the girl in that pic was their biggest fan.  And my last actual girlfriend, but anyway, she sort of dragged me.  That's why I remember where we were going.  And you know, live, they blew me away.  (It may have been something I ate)  That night was when I learned what a Mellotron was -

    Mike Pinder worked at Streetly Electronics for 18 months in the early 1960s as a tester, and was immediately excited by the possibilities of the instrument.[32] After trying piano and Hammond organ, he settled on the Mellotron as the instrument of choice for his band, The Moody Blues, purchasing a second-hand model from Fort Dunlop Working Men's Club in Birmingham[33] and using it extensively on every album from Days of Future Passed (1967) to Octave (1978).[34] Pinder claims to have introduced John Lennon and Paul McCartney to the Mellotron, and convinced each of them to buy one.[34] The Beatles hired in a machine and used it on their single "Strawberry Fields Forever", recorded in various takes between November and December 1966.[35][36] Though producer George Martin was unconvinced by the instrument, describing it "as if a Neanderthal piano had impregnated a primitive electronic keyboard",[16] they continued to compose and record with various Mellotrons for the albums Magical Mystery Tour[37] and The Beatles (White Album).[38] McCartney used the Mellotron sporadically in his solo career, and his wife Linda played one while touring with Wings.[39]


    Parent
    And then you can join (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by ruffian on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 09:28:49 AM EST
    I love it! (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 09:38:26 AM EST
    Your family woulld totally rock those outfits (5.00 / 2) (#22)
    by ruffian on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 09:41:02 AM EST
    Hey! (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 10:03:20 AM EST
    Did you ever wear your poncho as a skirt when it got hot?

    Parent
    You might not respect me (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 10:38:14 AM EST
    If I answered that.   And elephant bells, yes.  Those were cool.  Unlike that polyester stuff.

    Parent
    There are some fads that should never be (5.00 / 2) (#23)
    by Angel on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 09:41:47 AM EST
    repeated.  This is one of them.

    Parent
    I had the safari top (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 10:58:02 AM EST
    I loved that thing.

    I vaguely remember this trend. LOL

    Parent

    One designer at NY fashion week (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by oculus on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 12:30:20 PM EST
    featured a sack dress. Bad revival.  

    Parent
    In reply to Anne (2.00 / 0) (#4)
    by jbindc on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 08:05:14 AM EST
    From the last open thread

    I'm not sure what purpose it serves to (none / 0) (#185)
    by Anne on Mon Sep 08, 2014 at 07:11:56 PM EST

    wish an entire season of losses on 52 men who didn't coldcock their wives or girlfriends, unless you can make a case that they all knew the real story and have been protecting Rice.

    Wishing losses on an organization that shielded this man for too long and are now claiming, "Hey, we just saw this video!"  (BTW - I don't believe them.  The first question a 7th grader would have asked after seeing the first video would have been, "What about the elevator?  Is there video footage from there?" So the fact that the Ravens and the NFL are saying they didn't ask the question, or didn't get this video stretches the imagination beyond belief).

    I would also say me just wishing something like a losing season for a team is a lot different than what happened at Penn State, and you may correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember you being one of those people who was very vocal about them being severely punished because of the Sandusky fiasco - something that REALLY had nothing to do with the players themselves. (Thankfully, the bowl ban has been lifted by the NCAA).

    Anyway, I'm a Steelers fan (2nd favorite team), so I don't really want the Ravens to win anyway - even before the Ray Rice incident.  :)

    According to TMZ this morning (3.00 / 0) (#6)
    by jbindc on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 08:17:36 AM EST
    The NFL never asked for the video

    Sources connected with the Revel Hotel and Casino in Atlantic City tell TMZ Sports ... NO ONE from the NFL ever asked for the video inside the elevator ... video that was compelling enough to get Rice instantly fired.  

    Sources who worked at the casino at the time of the incident tell us ... if the NFL had asked for the video, they would have gladly complied.

    Without video ... Goodell blindly justified the initial 2-game suspension, based on the only evidence they had -- from the two people in the elevator, who called it mutual combat.

    Multiple sources tell TMZ Sports ...  the casino made a copy of the elevator surveillance video for police. We're also told Rice's lawyer had a copy of the video, which he got in the criminal case.

    An NFL source tells us they requested "any and all information" from law enforcement in the criminal case but got nothing because it was a pending case. But the NFL had other options ... namely going to the casino or Rice's lawyer -- but the NFL never bothered to ask.

    Why not?

    Parent

    Someone is lying (5.00 / 1) (#188)
    by jbindc on Wed Sep 10, 2014 at 07:11:00 AM EST
    Wanna put money on who it is?

    Here's SI's Peter King, back in July:

    There is one other thing I did not write or refer to, and that is the other videotape the NFL and some Ravens officials have seen, from the security camera inside the elevator at the time of the physical altercation between Rice and his fiancée.

    And here's ESPN's Chris Mortensen, also from July.

    We saw the TMZ video of what happened outside--when he was dragging her out unconscious--but inside, I'm told from those who have seen the video, it wasn't pretty. In fact, she attacks him--we don't know the reason why--and he strikes her, strikes her hard. And her head--according to the sources I've spoken to--struck the rail inside the elevator and she was unconscious.

    Which is exactly what today's video shows.



    Parent
    Rhetorical (none / 0) (#7)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 08:21:50 AM EST
    I assume

    Parent
    Another perspective... (none / 0) (#42)
    by kdog on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 11:53:18 AM EST
    from Janay Rice, who feels victimized all over again by the media and the peanut gallery.

    Ray Rice and the NFL aren't the only ones who should be ashamed of themselves.  TMZ has taken sleaze to new heights over the past decade, and we the people eat it up.

    Shame on everybody's arse. I'm reminded of Scarface and Tony Montana..."Say goodnight to the bad guy, think that makes you good?"

    Parent

    Just my opinion (5.00 / 2) (#44)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 11:55:51 AM EST
    She needs help as much as he does

    Parent
    Perhaps... (none / 0) (#45)
    by kdog on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 12:00:59 PM EST
    they were getting help and on the mend, and we've set them back.  All of us...the NFL, the media, the peanut gallery.  It's their lives we are treating like a soap opera.

    One thing I'm taking away from this story is how much of a judgemental holier than thou Scarlet Letter society we still are...the required Nathaniel Hawthorne reading in high school just didn't stick I guess, or stuck wrong.

    Parent

    I think referring to folks (5.00 / 4) (#48)
    by nycstray on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 12:10:43 PM EST
    as the peanut gallery is wrong and I also don't think we are treating this like a soap opera. Maybe TMZ is (I haven't watched them), but in general, people are upset over what happened and at the NFL response. This is about domestic violence. So sorry you think it's a holier than thou judgement to be upset over the lack of penalty for knocking a woman out cold in an elevator.

    And I think her perception may be a bit off if she thinks people are 'doing this' to hurt them.

    Parent

    I'm totally cool... (none / 0) (#56)
    by kdog on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 12:49:36 PM EST
    with talking about domestic violence and appropriate societal response to domestic violence when it occurs...long overdue even.  But we can do that without the Rices and without the video being played over and over and over.  I get the feeling we're missing the forest (domestic violence) for the trees (Ray Rice's celebrity, Pro Football, Celebrity Obsessed Media/Consumers, Self-Righteous Indignation, Shock Video, Etc).

    One thing for sure, the NFL cannot solve this country's (err world's) domestic violence problem.  I didn't mean to imply domestic violence is not a serious issue...of course it is.  I just think we're not focused on the issue, we're focused on the soap opera.  Maybe I'm wrong.

    Parent

    I think you're mostly right (none / 0) (#62)
    by jondee on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 01:10:01 PM EST
    but we're not a bunch of deep thinkers here.

    Hell, TMZ is a popular show. What does that tell you?

    Parent

    Sorry dog (5.00 / 6) (#50)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 12:16:16 PM EST
    He put her out with a haymaker.  And then dragged her out and left her laying there with her dress .

    That's not ok.  Even if she thinks it is.   It's not ok.

    Parent

    Haymakers (5.00 / 2) (#54)
    by Uncle Chip on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 12:38:24 PM EST
    He put her out with a haymaker

    and then Roger Goodell put her out with another haymaker by separating her husband form the money she was going to be spending.

    I'd love to get a good look at that Prenupt.

    Parent

    Who said it was ok? (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by kdog on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 01:04:41 PM EST
    He was arrested and prosecuted...personally I don't have a problem with deferment programs in lieu of prison, for first time offenders with a chance for redemption & rehabilitation...but I can understand reasonable people disagreeing and saying he got off to light for a violent crime.

    This pile on punishment from the league otoh, I think it went from too soft (compared to lesser moral infractions aka drugs.no moral infraction at all) to too harsh.  Another player roughed up his pregnant girlfriend in the offseason, I believe he got a two game suspension pre-revision to policy.  If video emerges, should he be banned indefinitely too?  Or any old regular joe/jane who does a horrible thing...should they be barred from their professions indefinitely?  Is that helping or hurting the cause?    

    And lets be clear about TMZ's role here...they did not release that video to educate and help the preventing domestic violence cause...they released it because they are gutter-pimps and we are gutter-dwellers.

    Parent

    It is interesting that no one (none / 0) (#60)
    by jondee on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 01:05:38 PM EST
    in the mainstream talks about dog fighting any more ever since the Michael Vick controversy died down. No one wants to offend too much the good folks in flies-all-over country apparently..

    I remember when that story broke it was framed almost as some sort of startling revelation that that stuff goes on..

    Parent

    DogFighting (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by squeaky on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 01:10:35 PM EST
    At least with bullfighting they eat the bull after the fight (if it gets killed)...  not the matador though...

    My guess is that in some countries they also eat the dog after the fight, (if it gets killed)...

    shame to waste good meat.

    Parent

    Are you saying... (none / 0) (#181)
    by unitron on Wed Sep 10, 2014 at 12:30:40 AM EST
    ...that the matador doesn't eat the bull, or that if the matador is the one to die that he doesn't get eaten?

    Parent
    Bullfight (none / 0) (#196)
    by squeaky on Wed Sep 10, 2014 at 08:45:01 AM EST
    After the fight, if the bull loses, purveyors sell the meat outside the bullring.

    If the matador loses, you may find some meat in the rare specialty restaurant, but be prepared to spend $$$$$$$.

    Parent

    No one with a brain (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 01:19:05 PM EST
    Even a small one in fly over country is ok with this.  Not even my dumb redneck family cops.  The busted a bunch of meth heads for this a while back.  They were more despised for the dog fighting that the meth.   Lots of animal lovers in fly over country too.

    Parent
    It was pretty big (none / 0) (#74)
    by jondee on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 01:37:01 PM EST
    in south Louisiana when I lived there a couple of decades ago. Of course they kept it kind of on the down low..

    People used to bring their whole family, little kids included, to watch.  

    Parent

    Can't speak to that (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 01:43:14 PM EST
    But in my backwoods redneck neighborhood you could get shot for it.

    Parent
    Pretty Sure... (none / 0) (#90)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 02:14:51 PM EST
    ...cock fighting is still legal in Louisianan and Florida, and a couple other states.  Scratch Florida, I just remember someone telling me the reason there were so many roosters squawking in the keys is because when they made it illegal, all the roosters were set free.

    Never mind, it's illegal in all states and it's territories.

    Louisiana was the last state in the nation to outlaw cockfighting, with the ban going into effect in 2008. The legislature upgraded the law in 2010 with legislation that made it a crime to knowingly attend a cockfight. Sen. Morrell's bill is expected to plug any remaining loopholes in Louisiana's cockfighting ban.

    LINK

    Parent
    Cultural Bias? (none / 0) (#84)
    by squeaky on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 01:58:15 PM EST
    Dog fighting is enjoyed in much of the world.

    Loooong tradition in Japan.

    Most people in the world at large do not see dogs as pets, europe included. They are used as work animals.

    A friend who lives in Spain has to go to tremendous effort to get good vet care, because if treatment costs more than 200 euros most vets do not understand why you would not put the dog down.

    Parent

    pit bulls are a fashion accessory (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by jondee on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 02:04:25 PM EST
    around here.

    Get a tattoo, get pierced, and get a pit bull. Everybody's doing it.

    Yes I know they can be sweethearts.

    Parent

    Yes (5.00 / 2) (#92)
    by squeaky on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 02:23:43 PM EST
    Pet fashion is pretty horrible. The breeders follow the trend and then lots of unwanted dogs..  not to mention that many fashion dogs are not treated well, and abandoned of when passé.

    Parent
    This is not exactly true (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 05:04:35 PM EST
    Most breeders don't follow trends.  At least not the ones that I know.   You can't "follow trends" and be breed knowledgable. Perhaps commercial breeders out of Missouri follow trends, like puggles and doodles

    Parent
    Or treated like a fashion accessory (none / 0) (#125)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 04:13:36 PM EST
    My first golden was adopted from a woman who only wanted a fashion accessory to look cool walking around inNY.   He spent the other 99% of his life in a crate.

    Parent
    Yes (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by squeaky on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 04:15:21 PM EST
    That is what I meant.. fashion accessory..

    Lucky dog that it wound up with you!

    Parent

    My room mate inNY (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 04:21:00 PM EST
    Dog walked and sat dogs for (mostly) rich people.  This woman was a pretty big female rocker but her name is escaping me right now.  Anyway Karen, my friend, was always talking about how awful the dogs life was so together we talked her into letting me take him.  With visiting privileges if she wanted them.  Which she never used.

    Parent
    that's why I have goldens too (5.00 / 1) (#128)
    by ruffian on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 04:22:50 PM EST
    Pure fashion!

    Parent
    Ha (5.00 / 2) (#130)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 04:28:30 PM EST
    If this dog had rolled in a mud puddle she would have had a brain hemorrhage  

    Parent
    With some googling (none / 0) (#134)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 04:49:28 PM EST
    I remembered the dog owner

    Robin Beck

    Anyone know the name?  I admit without the dog I would not.

    Parent

    Always dressed in Golden fur :) (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 05:00:12 PM EST
    And most Pitts aren't coming out (none / 0) (#140)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 05:09:16 PM EST
    Of "breeders".  There are many Pitt crosses from individuals who did not have their pet dogs altered.  And in Alabama, Florida, Georgia, and Mississippi they are still illegally fighting Pitts and breeding them specifically for that.

    I only know of one Pitt breeder who attempts to train her dogs for regular competition.

    Parent

    When I lived in LA (none / 0) (#146)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 05:27:13 PM EST
    I went with a friend to the largest dog shelter in the valley to find a dog for her.  They had a whole building for Pitbulls.  I started to go in and the girl said 'if you are not looking for a Pitbulls I wouldn't go in there.  It will give you nightmares'
    So then I had to go in.   But I regretted it.  I really really did.

    Parent
    I am called a discriminator (5.00 / 2) (#157)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 07:06:06 PM EST
    And I am.  Dogs that have a track record of mauling children to death, dogs bred to have uncontrollable prey drive, why do we breed them?

    I am all for homing what exists and loving them, but why do we need more?  I am drifting that way with Rottweiler's too, they aren't as bad but they can also maul to death humans.  This isn't even tallying the deaths and horrible injuries that they inflict on other dogs just going for a walk down the street.

    There is a newly developed breed, Black Russian Terrier, and it has been bred to be hyper aggressive.....why?

    Two different times when I have brought up this idea that maybe we don't need more hyper aggressive dogs, breeders of hyper aggressive dogs have given me the weirdest threat.  They threaten to come to my house and kill my dogs.  It's strange, it's like telling gun people maybe we don't need all these weapons and their response is to tell you they are going to blow your head off. I did not say that anyone should kill their dogs, I have only said maybe we shouldn't make more.  And at first I was quickly shut up by such threats, but my heartfelt belief won't go away...so I am becoming harder and harder to shut up.

    Parent

    That's pretty creepy MT (none / 0) (#158)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 07:11:34 PM EST
    I would keep my distance.  

    Parent
    They do remind me of gun people (5.00 / 1) (#161)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 07:20:47 PM EST
    They need some sort of projection of force outside of themselves.

    Parent
    One of the reasons domestic violence (5.00 / 2) (#96)
    by Anne on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 03:03:29 PM EST
    continues to be a problem is the effort to keep it in the dark, to keep thinking that "he didn't really mean it," to keep thinking it will change, that the victim can somehow change the person who is abusing her.

    No one in this debacle has acted with honor or integrity.  No one.  Not Ray Rice who punched the woman he says he loves, or his employer who couldn't be bothered to obtain all the evidence, or did obtain the evidence and chose to ignore it, or the owner/management of the team he played for, who chose to let the league take the lead and may also have lied about what they knew and when they knew it, or law enforcement and the legal system who who saw the video and chose to give Ray the superstar athlete discount, or Janay Rice, who excused away the violence of the man who's supposed to love her.

    Maybe one day, she'll be glad this came out so publicly, because it may have saved her life.  

    The "peanut gallery" - the people who pay the money to go to games and buy gear and pay the cable companies - comprises about 50% women now, so if you think they don't have - or the male fans don't have - the right to chime in, or make their feelings known, or have the right to expect better from the athletes and teams they support, your eyes are wide shut.

    The league and the teams go out of their way to promote - and make money off of - these professional athletes, so I don't think they, or the athletes, have any right to complain about the media attention - good or bad - that results from public behavior.

    And, for what it's worth, there's nothing "holier than thou" about taking issue with people who abuse or are violent with others.  For every Ray Rice who's in the public eye, there are thousands of no-name abusers taking out their anger and frustrations on women and children, sometimes with tragic results.  I hear you saying all of that is wrong, you just don't want it to interfere with your sports interests.

    That's so shallow I'm not sure there's even any water in the end of the pool you're swimming in.

    Parent

    Anne had more to say about the subject (1.20 / 5) (#185)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Wed Sep 10, 2014 at 06:37:08 AM EST
    but unfortunately had to be taken to the local ER for her dislocated shoulder from patting herself on the back.

    Parent
    Grow the fk up, would you? (5.00 / 3) (#199)
    by Anne on Wed Sep 10, 2014 at 08:54:52 AM EST
    It's clear you're not getting traction on all your sniping comments, and poor baby! - no one's patted you on the back for being "right" about the Ray Rice situation - why this is so important to you, I have no earthly idea -  so I guess you're upping your "game" by making more petty comments and down-rating any comment I - and others - have made - comments that lack any objectionable content.

    Oh - and for what it's worth - I don't know why you think I would be the one with the dislocated shoulder from excessive back-patting, when you're the one running around braying about how you were right and trolling for recognition.

    The operative concept here being "trolling."

    ::rolling eyes::

    Parent

    You Know... (5.00 / 2) (#203)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Sep 10, 2014 at 09:07:18 AM EST
    ....we get it your were right once in your lifetime and you aren't going to let this anomaly slip by with out squeezing every shrape of enjoyment out of it.

    Can you pleaze stop acing like toddler who just loves the feeling of a full diaper, it's beyond annoying.

    Anne is one of the those insightful and level headed posters here, and she has clearly taken the path you agree with, so can you stop acting like a jerk and let it go already.

    Parent

    The point had nothing to... (none / 0) (#110)
    by kdog on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 03:42:13 PM EST
    do with my "sports interests"...it was about our prop 'em up to tear 'em down culture.  The Scarlet Letter.  How to react when a member of society does a terrible thing.  Janay Rice's request that we not use their lives to make our points, that they ain't props in a play.

    jondee got me, despite my ineloquence finding the words...did you even try or did you just see an opportunity to feel superior and jumped on it?  Lotta that going around ya know, sh*t is contagious.  

    Parent

    No, I think the story it remsembles (none / 0) (#49)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 12:14:37 PM EST
    is Young Goodman Brown.  

    Parent
    CO2 levels (2.00 / 0) (#41)
    by jbindc on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 11:52:27 AM EST
    rising at a dramatically faster rate than previously thought:

    Levels of heat-trapping carbon dioxide in the atmosphere rose at a record-shattering pace last year, a new report shows, a surge that surprised scientists and spurred fears of an accelerated warming of the planet in decades to come.

    Concentrations of nearly all the major greenhouse gases reached historic highs in 2013, reflecting ever-rising emissions from automobiles and smokestacks but also, scientists believe, a diminishing ability of the world's oceans and plant life to soak up the excess carbon put into the atmosphere by humans, according to data released early Tuesday by the United Nations' meteorological advisory body.

    SNIP

    A landmark report last year by a U.N.-appointed panel of climate scientists warned that, if current trends continue, the world could soon see major disruptions to both natural ecosystems and human civilization, including rising sea levels that could swamp many of the world's coastal cities. That report, by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, projected a rise in temperatures of up to nine degrees in the next century unless action is taken to lower carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere.

    Methane, another major greenhouse gas, also rose significantly in the WMO's latest report, continuing a steady climb that began six years ago. Global concentrations of methane -- a byproduct of farming and fossil-fuel extraction, as well as numerous natural processes -- are now 21 / 2 times as high as they were at the start of the industrial age, in the mid-18th century, the report said.

    My guess is that a large contributor to this crisis are all the gasbags - both in politics and on cable news - who just keep talking to hear themselves talk.

    So the question is (none / 0) (#77)
    by Slado on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 01:40:02 PM EST
    If CO2 is rising so fast...

    Why No warming in 17-19 years, depending on who does the math?

    Why is Arctic Ice actually expanding?.


    Why are Hurricanes at an all time low?

    Hmmmmm, could it be the gasbags in Climate Research don't know what they're talking about?

    Could it be that our weather system is much more complicated then they understand and simply changing the amount of CO2 in the air isn't enough to change the weather?

    Just wondering.


    Parent

    Slado one of the reasons hurricanes (5.00 / 3) (#88)
    by fishcamp on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 02:07:37 PM EST
    are at an all time low is due to Sahara dust.  Yep, it blows all the way across the Atlantic Ocean to most of the Caribbean Islands and Florida.  There must be thousands of tons of it in the air dampening the hurricanes.  I have about a half pound in each eye right now.  My house and boat get all dusty when it doesn't rain.  Strange but true

    Parent
    Not all that strange. (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 03:18:13 PM EST
    Desert dust storms can be huge and fierce, as residents of Phoenix can no doubt attest. And L.A. regularly gets cloaked in Mojave Desert dust, particularly during Santa Ana conditions.

    Meanwhile, in the eastern Pacific, we're potentially on track to see a record number of hurricanes this season. On average, we usually see the formation of four or five tropical cyclones. Thus far this year, we've had fourteen, of which three have either hit or brushed us here in the islands -- and hurricane season doesn't officially end in the eastern Pacific until November 30.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    As an addendum, ... (2.00 / 0) (#105)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 03:29:25 PM EST
    ... Arizona, southern Nevada and southeastern California have experienced serious flooding the last couple of days from the remnants of Hurricane Norbert.

    Parent
    Wow (none / 0) (#102)
    by squeaky on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 03:22:28 PM EST
    That's heavy!

    Parent
    "Depending on who ... (none / 0) (#162)
    by Yman on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 07:24:06 PM EST
    ... does the math".

    Heh.

    When you're relying on climatedepot, David Rose and a wingnut blog to do your math, you'll always end up with 2+2=5.

    BTW - Your "questions" have been answered numerous times - by actual climatologists.

    Parent

    Could it be?? (none / 0) (#190)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Sep 10, 2014 at 07:51:02 AM EST
    Why yes. It definitely could be.

    You see, these people have vested financial interests in this matter plus it is a matter of power and prestige.

    The three things that have led mankind into wrong actions since the dawn of time.

    Parent

    BAHAHAHAHA (5.00 / 1) (#195)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Sep 10, 2014 at 08:37:35 AM EST

    it is a matter of power and prestige.

    The three things that have led mankind into wrong actions since the dawn of time.



    Parent
    To be fair, he mentioned financial (none / 0) (#201)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Wed Sep 10, 2014 at 08:59:17 AM EST
    interests as the third factor earlier in the sentence.

    But, I can see how you were confused. James' treatment of the English language is interesting, if not exactly clear and/or grammatical in some of his comments.

    And, as I pointed out, the glaciers are in on it too, apparently for power and prestige, as glaciers have no financial interests at stake, AFAIK.

    Parent

    Yes, it' s a conspiracy (none / 0) (#191)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Wed Sep 10, 2014 at 08:01:05 AM EST
    that even the glaciers are a part of these days.

    Who are we to believe, James, you and the climate denialists , or those lying glaciers?

    Parent

    JB Please Explain... (2.00 / 0) (#108)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 03:37:07 PM EST
    ...how the law and order commenter here, get's hooked-up with a "very peacenik BF".  From the comment yesterday it would seem that your BF leans in the opposite direction of you.  Surely the peacenik doesn't have the same... 'views' on authority.  

    You aren't really conservative, but not a liberal either, but you are the one who likes when the cops cracks skulls, not literally, but you know what I mean.  I am fascinated that you are in love with a peacenik who I would think doesn't share you views on law enforcement, drugs, and criminals in general.

    No big deal, just caught my eye.  I always go out with people with very similar views and I am always fascinated by people who live happy lives, even though their views on many issues are different.

    He agrees with me on some things (5.00 / 2) (#145)
    by jbindc on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 05:22:31 PM EST
    Law-n-order (maybe I opened his eyes to some things) :)

    He is a lapsed member of the ACLU, and his mother writes the newsletter for her local chapter.  He is also a member of NOW. He is an atheist, so yeah, we are very different in many ways. We don't agree on drugs, and sometimes not on law enforcement, but sometimes we do.  He mostly does believe, as do I, that people should be held accountable for their actions.

    But we agree on many, many other things, including our general outlook on life, most politics, discussing books, some TV (he doesn't watch much - I'm an addict), etc. We are both very interested in current events and are both huge sports fans.  (He has bragged on more than one occasion that he has a dream girlfriend who comes in the aparment and will put the game or ESPN on).

    But the biggest thing of all is that he puts up with my BS and still thinks I'm amazing, so, you know - that's how I knew he was a keeper right there. :)

    Parent

    And for the record (5.00 / 1) (#149)
    by jbindc on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 05:33:08 PM EST
    The only continual fight we have is over the DH Rule, since he's a Mets fan and I am a Tigers fan.  We can't bring up the subject.  :)

    Parent
    not JB (none / 0) (#113)
    by CST on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 03:50:36 PM EST
    but as a "peacenik" myself I can say that I often am interested in people with other views.  It helps if you can respect where there views came from (background/life experience, etc...) even if you disagree with the outcome.

    Parent
    their* (none / 0) (#116)
    by CST on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 03:54:07 PM EST
    gah

    Parent
    Ravens owner apologizes to (2.00 / 0) (#173)
    by Anne on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 10:00:06 PM EST
    season-ticket holders, suite owners and sponsors in a letter.

    From the letter:

    On the morning of Feb. 15, we learned that Ray and his then fiancé, Janay, had been arrested at an Atlantic City casino, and both had been charged with "simple assault" resulting from an altercation with each other. After the couple was taken to police headquarters, and after a report was written, they were allowed to leave together.

    A number of Ravens' representatives talked with Ray during the course of that day. His explanation was that after he and Janay had consumed a great deal of alcohol, they had had an argument and that they struck each other.

    We at the Ravens organization issued a statement to the media that we were aware of the incident, that we had talked with Ray, and that he deserved the due process of law.

    We then began our own process to discover as much as we could about what happened. We talked with representatives of the casino, the police who arrested the couple, the prosecutor and a lawyer who represented both Ray and Janay in the case. Soon after, the video of Janay and Ray coming out of the elevator became public.

    We contacted the casino management and asked if there was video of the incident from inside the elevator that we could see. The casino would not share such video. We asked the local New Jersey police and the police refused as well. We asked the prosecutor's office and that office refused. It was our understanding at that time that Ray's attorney had not yet seen the video. NFL officials had been informed, and we know they were also trying to retrieve and/or see the video.

    Assessing the situation at of the end of February, this is what we knew: A player who had been a model citizen in the community and terrific teammate for six seasons had been charged with simple assault against his fiancé. At that time, his fiancé Janay had been similarly charged.

    Ray and Janay both told us nothing like this had happened before. He was showing great remorse; they were meeting regularly with our team chaplain and were diligently attending couples counseling.

    In March, the prosecutor dropped the case against Janay, but elevated the charge against Ray from simple assault to aggravated assault. At this point, we decided to defer action until completion of the court proceedings. We stopped seeking to view or obtain a copy of the video. We halted our fact-finding. That was a mistake on our part.

    In May, the prosecutor recommended, and the judge agreed, that Ray should be accepted into a pre-trial intervention program that will eventually have the assault charge dismissed from his record, pending a year of good behavior.

    The police had seen video from inside the elevator. The prosecutor and the judge, who had also seen such video, allowed Ray into the program that would eventually clear him of the assault charge.

    On June 16, Ray and Janay met with Commissioner Roger Goodell, who then announced on July 27 that Ray Rice would be suspended for the first two games of the season. Ray subsequently met with the media and answered questions.

    Yesterday morning Sept 8, all of us saw the video from inside the elevator. It is violent and horrifying. I immediately came to the office and called a meeting with Dick Cass, Ozzie Newsome, John Harbaugh and Kevin Byrne. The meeting was relatively short. The decision to let Ray Rice go was unanimous. Seeing that video changed everything. We should have seen it earlier. We should have pursued our own investigation more vigorously. We didn't and we were wrong.

    The letter ends with:

    I am sorry we let you down.

    Note: it's not constructed the way we usually see these things, i.e., "I am sorry if we let you down," which I was pleased to see (I've always hated that "if" part, because to me it reads like, "if you don't think we let you down, forget that I'm apologizing.")

    I don't know if the letter helps, hurts or makes no difference, but it isn't just the people with a financial interest in the team who have been let down, it's the entire fan base, victims of abuse and, to some extent, Rice and his wife.


    I don't know if the letter helps, either. (5.00 / 1) (#182)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Sep 10, 2014 at 12:46:20 AM EST
    Like so many of the mea culpas we've heard, I find it too little and too late. I agree with your earlier assessment of this sad and tawdry affair. So many people have failed so spectacularly on so many levels that at this point, it's really hard to take seriously whatever it is they're now saying.

    Parent
    Anne, (1.00 / 3) (#204)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Wed Sep 10, 2014 at 09:10:59 AM EST
    You were the one for giving me lots of grief because I didn't buy into your complicated defense of Rice before the elevator video became public, as anyone can see perusing the comments you made to me awhile back.

    Therefore your revisionism is hilarious, even though you've apparently have some support from those commentators who apparently don't remember your attacks on me that last time, are in denial,or in the early stages of Alzheimer's or another affliction that affects the memory tracts of the human brain.

    Oh, well.  As Schiller noted, against stupidity the Gods themselves contend in vain.


    Who knew this technology was available (none / 0) (#1)
    by Uncle Chip on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 06:54:25 AM EST
    Re: the gunshot audio of the Michael Brown shooting:

    The recording was analyzed by ShotSpotter , a company which developed technology to identify and locate urban gunshots in real time, using microphones mounted throughout a city.

    ShotSpotter could not verify, with available information, that the recording is of the Michael Brown shooting. The company did say that it is the sound of ten gunshots within less than seven seconds, with a three-second pause after the sixth shot.

    It identified seven additional sounds as echoes of gunshots.

    It also said that all ten rounds were fired from within a three-foot radius--that the shooter was not moving.

    Michael Brown shooting investigation

    There goes the myth that Wilson was backing up as he was shooting.

    It will be interesting to see if the location (2.00 / 0) (#2)
    by Anne on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 07:52:03 AM EST
    of the spent shell casings supports that analysis.

    Parent
    You would think (5.00 / 0) (#25)
    by Repack Rider on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 09:46:21 AM EST
    ...that the shell casings were the first item investigated.  We haven't heard a word about it, there do not seem to be photos showing marked locations, Officer Wilson is on video strolling through the scene...

    I'm beginning to think this event was not thoroughly investigated.

    Parent

    Photo of shell casing[s] (none / 0) (#34)
    by Uncle Chip on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 10:54:33 AM EST
    This is the only photo of shell casings that I've seen thus far though I'm constantly being told that it's really a charm bracelet.

    If that's two shell casings that have rolled together there, then it raises some interesting questions for the Chief.

    There would probably be more photos around but the police went around the neighborhood collecting everybodys' cell phones.

    Parent

    Oddly, we're constantly being told by some (none / 0) (#40)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 11:32:35 AM EST
    that those are absolutely shell casings, but they sure don't look like shell casings to me. Nothing about the shape is shell casing-like, and the color looks more "gold" than brass to me.

    These are shell casings.

    My wild a$$ guess guess is some kind of bling, perhaps "grillz."

    Parent

    Third Cone (none / 0) (#46)
    by Uncle Chip on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 12:05:06 PM EST
    yeh -- they may just be some kind of bling not related to the shooting as they do look short for shell casings.

    So if one cone marks the hat, and one cone marks shoe insole, then what is that third cone marking???

    Is there something under it?

    Parent

    Not sure why "bling" would be (none / 0) (#135)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 04:51:07 PM EST
    not related to the shooting
    ?

    Parent
    A 10 year old girl (none / 0) (#141)
    by Uncle Chip on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 05:13:21 PM EST
    could have dropped it there while running across the street the day before.

    Parent
    also drop her hat and flip flop there?

    Parent
    Check the fingerprints on that gun (none / 0) (#155)
    by Uncle Chip on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 06:23:51 PM EST
    she might have fired that as well.

    Parent
    Which gun? (5.00 / 1) (#163)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 07:40:50 PM EST
    Shell casings (none / 0) (#9)
    by Uncle Chip on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 08:25:51 AM EST
    Yep -- they better account for all that brass.

    If they don't have 10 shell casings at that location then they should check the bottom of Wilson's shoes as he walked back and forth through the crime scene several times fighting the temptation each time I'm sure to reach down and pick up his brass.

    Parent

    Meme of the Day (none / 0) (#28)
    by whitecap333 on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 10:26:31 AM EST
    And here you had me thinking that Big Mike was amiably strolling up to Wilson, to offer him a cigar, maybe.

    Parent
    You keep implying (5.00 / 3) (#39)
    by Repack Rider on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 11:12:13 AM EST
    ...that Mike Brown was in some way responsible for his own death, even though all witnesses agree he was surrendering.  There is no witness account of the event indicating an attack on Wilson by Brown.  

    Why would you say such a thing?  What do you have against an 18 y.o. kid who never harmed you?

    Parent

    Maybe it has something to do with (5.00 / 2) (#58)
    by Anne on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 01:04:17 PM EST
    the "whitecap."

    Parent
    I can think of at least one witness... (none / 0) (#180)
    by unitron on Wed Sep 10, 2014 at 12:23:32 AM EST
    ...who will probably not say he was surrendering.

    Parent
    What's wrong with you? (5.00 / 5) (#55)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 12:45:53 PM EST
    Why are you so vested in the fate of Officer Wilson that you would continue to smear the name of a deceased 18-year-old teenager who was heretofore unknown to you? You've attached your name to so many false or misleading narratives that you've become the equivalent of "Baghdad Bob" on this subject.

    Parent
    Rasmussen Poll (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by Uncle Chip on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 03:14:01 PM EST
    This from another thread:

    Look at the results of that Rasmussen poll conducted August 15-16: 17% of Whites said they were not persuaded of Officer Wilson's guilt.

    So then 83% of Whites weren't buying what the  police department and its union were selling, right???

    This strongly suggests they do not find Wilson's accusers credible.

    Who are you kidding??? Only 17% believed Wilson's non-statement and anonymous fiction and that to you is a strong suggestion.

    Railing at them for their "racism" and "insensitivity" is merely hardening their attitudes.

    It generally does but in this case the overwhelming majority of Whites support the family of Mike Brown especially after seeing the autopsy and hearing all the lies from the FPD corrected again and again.

     In the Heartland, people still give law enforcement officers, whatever their color, the benefit of doubt.

    They certainly do so when in this case they support the family of Mike Brown then that should tell you something.

    Reality is knocking.  Time to answer the door.

    It's the local boy scouts taking your order for crow.

    Hows about answering it with an incident report that explains how Wilson was able to shoot Brown in the palm of his right hand and in the front of his right forearm without his arms being up at that moment of the shots in surrender???


    Parent

    Cute (none / 0) (#159)
    by whitecap333 on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 07:12:11 PM EST
    I obviously meant to say that only 17% of Whites were persuaded of Wilson's guilt.  I tried to correct, but I don't think that comment was accepted, the subject of Brown being deemed off-topic.  But let me expand on that 17% a bit.  That poll was taken August 15-16.  The video of Brown manhandling the store clerk was released, as I recall, on the afternoon of 8-15.  That suggests that many of the poll participants had not had occasion to view the video at the time they were interviewed.  I doubt that many are receptive to the idea that the video is not germane to the issue of whether Brown assaulted Wilson, as he attempted to exit his patrol car.

    I won't pretend to understand the notion that Brown ceased being a threat to Wilson simply by raising his hands.  What do you suppose his "reach" was?  And it looks like he got as close as 4 feet.

    Parent

    Obviously Mike Brown (5.00 / 2) (#172)
    by Repack Rider on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 09:52:26 PM EST
    ...wasn't thinking clearly, since he apparently assumed that stopping his flight, turning around, raising his hands and saying, "OK, OK," ws a gesture of surrender, which all the witnesses also assumed was a surrender.

    What would have been the PROPER way from Mike Brown to surrender, if raising his hands was a threat?  Where did you get your information on the distance between Brown and Wilson, since Brown was running away before he stopped and turned around?

    How much do you get paid for this?  No one would embarrass himself by ignoring the evidence like you do for free.

    Parent

    To whitecap333 (5.00 / 2) (#177)
    by Uncle Chip on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 11:18:36 PM EST
    I won't pretend to understand the notion that Brown ceased being a threat to Wilson simply by raising his hands.

    Why not -- you pretend so well on everything else.

     If raising one's hands is not an indication of surrender, then perhaps you can tell us what is  surrender posture -- doing a cartwheel, standing on his head, putting his fingers up his nose, doing the Dixie???

    Please tell us.

    What do you suppose his "reach" was?

    his reach when -- before or after he was shot in the right shoulder, right arm, right chest, right hand, and right forearm, and subsequently bent over wrapping his arms around his stomach in pain???

    And it looks like he got as close as 4 feet.

    Would that be before or after the final four bullets fired point blank to his head as he was falling to the ground???

    Is that the kind of arrest you would want for yourself or for your son or daughter???

    I'm surprised that Wilson did not go back to his truck and reload and start shooting bystanders as they were more of a threat to him than Brown was at that point.

    Parent

    Is anyone here (1.33 / 3) (#186)
    by whitecap333 on Wed Sep 10, 2014 at 06:50:56 AM EST
    so divorced from reality as to doubt that Wilson will testify he instructed Brown to halt, or get on the ground?  And that he had just been assaulted by him?

    A price will be paid for orchestrating this charade.  In the Court of Public Opinion, pleas of mental deficiency are not accepted.

    Parent

    To Whitecap333 (none / 0) (#194)
    by Uncle Chip on Wed Sep 10, 2014 at 08:35:55 AM EST
    Wilson will testify he instructed Brown to halt, or get on the ground.

    And what will he testify that he instructed Brown to do during that 3 second pause in the shooting as Brown was bending over from being shot and falling to the ground???

    Parent

    Pause (none / 0) (#202)
    by whitecap333 on Wed Sep 10, 2014 at 09:04:06 AM EST
    According to the WaPo forensic audio analysis, the 3 second pause comes just before the final 4 shots, the first 2 of which would obviously have been to the arm.  I have no idea what you are attempting to insinuate here.

    Parent
    Ferguson policy on use of deadly force (none / 0) (#197)
    by Uncle Chip on Wed Sep 10, 2014 at 08:45:09 AM EST
    FPD policy on use of deadly force

    The department's use of force guidelines are similar to other police departments. The policy reads:

    An officer may use deadly lethal force when the officer reasonably believes that the action is in defense of human life, including the officers own life, or in defense of any person in imminent danger of serious physical injury. The officer should have exhausted every alternative means of apprehension before using deadly force and lethal force will not be used if there's a clear risk to the safety of a third person.

    "The Ferguson policy is very clear about when an officer is supposed to use deadly force," said UMSL professor David Klinger.

    Klinger said the back half of the policy also requires that the suspect committed or attempted to commit a felony, the crime involved the use or threatened use of deadly force, and if there's a substantial risk the suspect will kill or seriously hurt someone if the suspect is not stopped.


    Parent

    sarcastic unnamed one (5.00 / 2) (#205)
    by Uncle Chip on Wed Sep 10, 2014 at 09:16:36 AM EST
    Oh I'm sure it is --

    I'm not sure if defending yourself from an assault by a police officer is a felony or not.

    I don't think resisting arrest is a felony but first the officer would have to have told you that you are under arrest, and pull his handcuffs out instead of his service weapon.

    I know jaywalking isn't and neither is shoplifting a handful of cigarillos.

    Parent

    Anyone see this? (none / 0) (#10)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 08:42:04 AM EST
    "A Good Job: Stories of the FDNY" Produced by Steve Buscemi Airs Tonight 8 PM CT on HBO
    Mon September 08 2014

    I missed it.   But it looks interesting.  Previously TV spoke pretty highly.

    Here's (none / 0) (#11)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 08:46:12 AM EST
    a link

    Ultimately, A GOOD JOB is about camaraderie and the bonds formed around firehouse kitchen tables, the cumulative effect of trauma, both physical and mental, and the stories - the good, the bad and the exciting. A GOOD LIFE shows the immense mental and physical toll of firefighting, as well as the community borne out of sharing an incredible responsibility.

    Steve Buscemi worked as a firefighter at Engine Co. 55 in New York City from 1980 to 1984 before pursuing a career as an actor

    Did not know Stevie was a firefighter.

    Parent

    Great Guardian Piece on 1WTC (none / 0) (#18)
    by squeaky on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 09:30:36 AM EST
    Longish.... but full of details..  really good piece.
    ...You need community, solidarity and civic virtue - ideals that flickered for a moment in the hazy, uncertain days of late 2001, but that disappeared in the era of Bloomberg and were replaced by the privatisation and oligarchy that are the hallmarks of the 21st century.

    ....Back in 2006, at the end of his 12-year governorship, Pataki and Bloomberg brokered a deal to have the Port Authority take over construction of 1WTC, providing Silverstein a huge cut in rent on the remaining towers. It made New Yorkers perpetual landlords of a commercially unviable goliath, but nobody cared.

    Even when Occupy Wall Street electrified downtown New York in the autumn of 2011, neither the protesters nor their antagonists paid much attention to the giant tower rising one block away, which has cost $3.8bn in public funds - the world's priciest skyscraper by far, more than twice the cost of the world's tallest building, the Burj Khalifa in Dubai - and is at least partly to blame for climbing tolls on the city's bridges and tunnels and a lack of funds to repair the city's reprehensible infrastructure.



    Guardian


    I still get excited on Apple announcement day (none / 0) (#19)
    by ruffian on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 09:37:57 AM EST
    Know exactly what you mean ruffian... (none / 0) (#24)
    by fishcamp on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 09:45:14 AM EST
    are you planning to buy a new larger iPhone or a weird new watch?  My office area is paved with Apple stuff but I still want more.  Terrible addiction, expensive but fun.

    Parent
    I have a dilemma.... (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by ruffian on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 10:37:49 AM EST
    I really don't want a bigger phone...but I do want an upgrade since I am not on the 5S yet. So I hope they have one that is the same size....or if they managed to fit a bigger screen in only a slightly larger package.

    I'll see what the watch is like...right now I don't want it - I don't wear a watch or bracelets now because I am such a klutz, they just annoy me.

    This might be a cycle where I don't get anything new - horrors!!!!

    Parent

    So, you are one of the Apple fanboys (none / 0) (#61)
    by NYShooter on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 01:07:53 PM EST
    that have made them so rich that they could buy Google, Microsoft, and, have enough left over to buy Yahoooooo!

    Parent
    Yes I am an Apple fanboy and (none / 0) (#66)
    by fishcamp on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 01:14:07 PM EST
    damn proud of it and I wish I had more of their stocks.  But if wishes were fishes...well maybe I'll go out for a couple of hours and catch some Yellowtail Snapper for dinner.

    Parent
    Yes, I am (none / 0) (#72)
    by ruffian on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 01:33:57 PM EST
    And if any of my other purchases gave me as much pleasure and as little pain as my Apple products, I would be their fangirl too. But none come close. OK, maybe my Dyson vacuum.

    Parent
    Oooooo Dyson (none / 0) (#76)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 01:39:53 PM EST
    Special as they say?  I want one of those bland less fans.

    Parent
    BLADELESS (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 01:41:19 PM EST
    I'm sure they are less bland too (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by ruffian on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 04:03:46 PM EST
    Yes, they are. (5.00 / 1) (#176)
    by nycstray on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 11:16:23 PM EST
    Especially for us pet lovers.

    Parent
    hahaha (none / 0) (#178)
    by squeaky on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 11:25:52 PM EST
    Woof..

    Parent
    Vacuum (none / 0) (#124)
    by squeaky on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 04:13:27 PM EST
    I love my Vacuum too... one very expensive purchase 20+ years ago, but never had a regret, loooove it.. it is a Wap Turbo.. I think it is called something else now and much more expensive.

    Funny how we can love stuff..  

    I used to be Apple crazy, but do not really care so much anymore about the latest whatever..

    I only use apple, just lost the hype on the next greatest thing..

    Parent

    LOL, I hope you didn't take offense; (none / 0) (#150)
    by NYShooter on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 05:52:29 PM EST
    none, certainly was intended, just a little rib'n among friends.

    I mean, how can you not love you Apple Addicts who camp out on the sidewalk of your local Apple Emporium for weeks and weeks before a new product (lol, usually you don't even know what the product will be) is introduced.  

    And, I know exactly what the thrill/love/addiction/ infatuation/whatever you want to call it is all about. If you have to explain it you don't get it.

    Any car, with an internal combustion engine, can get you over the Rocky Mountains. But, lower yourself into the cockpit of a 1964 Austin Healy roadster convertible (preferably hunter green,) top down, on a crisp, sunny,  Autumn day, and, let'r rip. If you're not addicted the first day, your, most likely, dead.

    Regarding an Apple product, when an owner is describing it, "just the way it feels in your hand," you either, immediately, "get it," or, you never will.

    Parent

    I walked by such a camp-out (none / 0) (#183)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 10, 2014 at 12:57:44 AM EST
    In San Francisco awhile back. Mostly youngish males. Lots of security. But it was for an athletic shoe.  

    Parent
    Bought it when I was in 11th grade with my lawn-mowing and odd-jobs money. Sold it in about 1986 and have regretted it pretty much ever since...

    Parent
    Well the Watch is pretty great (none / 0) (#73)
    by ruffian on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 01:36:47 PM EST
    have not seen the technicals yet...does it tether to the phone for internet connectivity?

    Parent
    Here is my nit about the watch (5.00 / 2) (#122)
    by ruffian on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 04:06:05 PM EST
    I probably would not buy it anyway...but here is another reason not to...the big controller 'crown' on the side is set up for a right handed person that wears the watch on the left wrist. What about us lefties? Like all other wristwatches, it is not lefty friendly. I hope it is thumb-usable for us lefties.

    Parent
    Either that or Apple will do what (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by ruffian on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 04:23:52 PM EST
    Catholic school failed to do - make millions of people right handed.

    Parent
    Yep the nuns tried to convert me (5.00 / 3) (#132)
    by fishcamp on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 04:43:15 PM EST
    from left handed to right handed so I just threw up every day after lunch and my mom finally transferred me to the public school where my friends were.  We've spoken about nun bopping before.

    Parent
    Mr. Angel's teachers tried the same thing (5.00 / 3) (#142)
    by Angel on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 05:18:22 PM EST
    with him.  They would hit his left hand with a ruler when he tried to write with it; ruined his penmanship forever.  

    Parent
    I am excited b/c my phone has vanished. (none / 0) (#36)
    by oculus on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 10:56:33 AM EST
    You're an Apple groupie. (none / 0) (#82)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 01:46:43 PM EST
    ;-D

    Parent
    I want to see (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 01:53:41 PM EST
    Donald in polyester bell bottoms.

    Parent
    LOL! That'll never happen. (5.00 / 2) (#93)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 02:25:45 PM EST
    Some sleeping dogs are best left for dead, and '70s-era polyester fashion is one of them. I will admit to having great '70s-era hair, though -- naturally thick and curly, a consistency not unlike Greg's from "The Brady Bunch" except that I was blond and not brunet. Whenever I took my baseball cap off during games, POOF! The girls loved it, while my coach and grandfather both used to nag me (mostly in jest) about getting a haircut.

    Parent
    The Strain (none / 0) (#70)
    by Slado on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 01:28:08 PM EST
    To answer your question Howdy without hijacking the other post...

    After reading the books I was very concerned about how they'd present the face of "The Master".

    FYI he is as large as he is because he took the body about 150 years before of a rich man cursed with "giant-ism".   The master has the ability to change human form through his blood worms and inhabit the vampire form of a human.   So for obvious reasons his latest form is of this once giant man.

    I thought before this week they did a good job not really showing a direct shot of him and would benefit artistically going forward from the audience never getting a good look at his face because it would have to be a rubber mask and those just never look right.

    Oh well, they chose to show him and I agree it was goofy but I'm not going to let it ruin what is a great story and well adapted show from the original material so far.

    I think you can guess what happened/s to Kelly.  Not good.

    Also in the books the vampires don't actually speak.  They communicate telepathically with themselves and humans and then mouth the words they think so humans think they're talking.  I wonder if they're going to address that or just disregard that little factoid for TV reasons.   I can see it going either way.  If you remember when they did the autopsy all the internal organs are streamlined for maximum efficiency and the addition of the stinger renders the vocal chords obsolete so they can't talk.  

    Happy to answer any question you have for background purposes.   Right now they are about 90% accurate to the books with a few wrinkles thrown in.

    Good stuff.

    Well (none / 0) (#75)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 01:37:24 PM EST
    Only the nazi talks, right? And he was infected in a "special" way?  I don't remember any talking after having a functional stinger.  Correct me if I'm wrong.  Oh!  Except for the vampire killing vampire and I don't know much about him yet.

     I like not knowing.  Don't tell me anything important.

    I am disappointed they showed the master.  It doesn't really matter what the makeup was there is nothing they could have done that was as creepy as that black hole.

    But as you say, I still love it.

    Are you are American Horror Story fan?

    Parent

    No (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by Slado on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 01:41:35 PM EST
    I'm showed out.   My wife is already mad at me for watching the Strain.

    I'll add it to my list of shows to put in the Que.

    Parent

    Today's moment of stupid: (none / 0) (#136)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 04:51:20 PM EST
    "What is the new Beatitude? Blessed are the fully armed, for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven."

    And somewhere in Heaven, Jesus Christ is slapping his forehead with his palm and saying, "Oy."

    :-(

    This (5.00 / 2) (#137)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 04:53:22 PM EST
    Is not even funny any more

    Parent
    These (5.00 / 1) (#151)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 05:56:32 PM EST
    people are sick.

    If I went to a church to visit and it had a roving band of people carrying Uzis I would turn around and leave. That's not a church. It's an ARMED CULT CAMP.

    Parent

    Seriously (none / 0) (#152)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 06:11:29 PM EST
    "Blessed are the fully armed??"

    If Jesus had stayed in the grave, he would be spinning.

    All joking aside.  This is a sickness.  It really is.

    Parent

    More gun idiocy. (none / 0) (#154)
    by Angel on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 06:19:50 PM EST
    There is a collection on C&L (none / 0) (#156)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 06:37:07 PM EST
    In other sports news (none / 0) (#147)
    by ragebot on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 05:31:15 PM EST
    some blogs are claiming the Rice mess is responsible for the timing of the NCAA letting PSU off the hook for the Sandusky scandal

    PSU link

    But not everyone is happy with the NCAA's decision

    Wrong message

    Flying under the radar The Citadel took out three DLs on the defending national champion college football team FSU and one of their players was caught saying 'going for the knees' was intentional on his part and on the part of his team mates; resulting in his suspension from the team.  At least till the next game.

    Victor Hill is a moron.

    I really wish Mack Sails would finish building my jib and I could get back to sailing in the Keys.

    Good to hear from you rarebit...whoops ragebot (none / 0) (#166)
    by fishcamp on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 08:04:19 PM EST
    auto correct can be both good and bad.  At least the jib should be less expensive than the main sail or a spinnaker.

    Parent
    I have never (none / 0) (#170)
    by ragebot on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 08:32:17 PM EST
    flown my spinnaker.  My cat is fast enough the AP goes far enough forward that my 180% screecher is the most used sail.  

    Parent
    Why cat racing (none / 0) (#160)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 07:15:21 PM EST
    Hey Howdy c'mon I walk my cats (5.00 / 2) (#165)
    by fishcamp on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 07:56:57 PM EST
    every night down the street with no leashes and they love it.  The neighbors past my house were a little leery of some guy just walking down their street at night.  The cats, of course, would disappear into the bushes and when two people slowed to ask if I was ok I told them I was walking my cats.  At first they just drove away but now I'm the semi-famous cat walker.  I think I told this story once before.  I don't think I mentioned that the three of us don't like thunder and lightning and race home immediately.  Your photo of cat racing is great.

    Parent
    When I lived in Houston (5.00 / 1) (#167)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 08:11:14 PM EST
    In the 70s we lived in a hip gay area.  Right by the modern art museum of course, anyway, the neighborhood was full of odd people.  If you lived through the 70s you know what I mean.  There was a certain pride then in flying the freak flag that just went away with the decade.  As I said, anyway, there was a guy who lived down the street who had a sheep that he walked around the neighborhood on a leash.  Most everyone in the neighborhood was fine with this but someone complained and it resulted in a police visit.  I not sure of the details but apparently they decided, whatever, if the guy wants to walk a sheep.....
    Cops were sometimes different too.
    But the thing is the guys response to the complaint was that he now put fishnet hose on the sheep before the walks.
    As far as I know no one else complained

    Parent
    Just on the rear legs (5.00 / 3) (#168)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 08:14:57 PM EST
    I've lived a sheltered life. :) (5.00 / 1) (#169)
    by Angel on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 08:26:08 PM EST
    One day my partner and I (4.50 / 2) (#171)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 08:39:33 PM EST
    Was walking down the street with a drag queen friend and we met Mr Greenjeans (thats what we called him, I never knew his name) with Sybil.  Oddly I did know the sheets name.  
    Anyway, our friend watches them walk past a shrieks "oh my god they have SEAMS!"
    And skittered on his platforms back to catch him to ask where he had found fishnet stockings with seams.  Which apparently were getting hard to find because of new production techniques.


    Parent
    You guys (5.00 / 1) (#174)
    by ragebot on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 10:30:57 PM EST
    don't know what a good cat vid is

    link

    Parent

    You get the feeling that (5.00 / 1) (#192)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Sep 10, 2014 at 08:25:32 AM EST
    Is still going on.  Just as we left it.

    Parent
    Jose Padilla... (none / 0) (#175)
    by desertswine on Tue Sep 09, 2014 at 10:49:05 PM EST
    ... this week, which overlooks the fabled Yosemite Valley, I seriously doubt that they expected to see THIS.

    Sad.

    Continuity: (none / 0) (#187)
    by lentinel on Wed Sep 10, 2014 at 07:00:03 AM EST
    Thanks for the feedback, Scott (none / 0) (#206)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Wed Sep 10, 2014 at 09:26:51 AM EST


    need (none / 0) (#207)
    by P3P3P3P3 on Wed Sep 10, 2014 at 10:47:42 AM EST
    need (none / 0) (#208)
    by P3P3P3P3 on Wed Sep 10, 2014 at 10:51:37 AM EST
    SITE VIOLATOR (none / 0) (#209)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Sep 10, 2014 at 10:59:27 AM EST
    P3P3P3P3

    Can't relpy

    Oscar Pistorius Verdict Due Tomorrow... (none / 0) (#211)
    by Mr Natural on Wed Sep 10, 2014 at 12:27:37 PM EST
    Whitecap333 (none / 0) (#212)
    by Uncle Chip on Wed Sep 10, 2014 at 01:30:49 PM EST
    According to the WaPo forensic audio analysis, the 3 second pause comes just before the final 4 shots, the first 2 of which would obviously have been to the arm.

    I know what you are trying to insunuate but it won't work.

    Ballistic experts and grand juries know that police and shooters are taught to fire in groupings and bullets fired tenths of seconds apart are found in groupings.

    In this case the first volley of 6 shots over ~2.5 seconds would be found in one grouping -- the right shoulder, the open palm of the right hand that was up, the inside of the right forearm that was up, the inside of the right bicep that was exposed, and possibly the one to the upper right chest.

    The second volley of 4 shots over ~1.5 seconds was aimed at the head -- thus those 2 fatal shots grouped together  with 2 missing all together.

    Meaning that during the pause, as witnesses have said, Brown was clearly injured and holding his right arm around his waist and headed down to the ground.

    Wilson should have realized that during that 3 second pause and backed up to allow the bullets he had just delivered to take their effect while he went back to the SUV to call for backup and the EMT.

    Instead he chose to empty his weapon delivering the final 4 shots [2 connecting] into the head of someone who was obviously no threat to him or anyone at that time.

    How is this defendable in any way???