James Foley Killing: Knife Switch?

On James Foley, I think it's odd that the knife in the ISIS guy's hands in the execution video doesn't match the one on the ground next to Foley's body after he is killed. And we don't see the ISIS guy actually cutting Foley. Also, Foley doesn't flinch when he puts the knife up to his neck. Could the ISIS guy speaking in the video not be the actual killer, just playing the part for the cameras? They could easily have stopped the tape, and had the real ISIS executioner step in and do the killing. Are authorities searching for one person when they should be looking for two people?

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    Thank you for (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 01:38:06 PM EST
    Calling attention to this.  Definitely something odd going on there.

    Taking part in a murder usually leads (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 06:38:34 PM EST
    To being charged.  And yes, it is perfectly acceptable, valid, and sane for authorities to be looking for the ISIS fighter who starred in this video.  He is also a battlefield combatant unlike Mr. Foley.  He also knows where kidnapped journalists have been kept.

    It's ok. (5.00 / 4) (#32)
    by lentinel on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 04:22:27 AM EST
    When I wrote,
    that fact (our killing of civilians) doesn't generate much interest here - ...

    by "here", I meant in the USA - or the Western world.

    Not the people posting here on TalkLeft.

    I should have made that clear.

    I would also like to make clear that I don't think that we're "worse", as you say. But I do think we hold ourselves to a different standard than other peoples. I do think that what we call terrorism is when they do it, and military "actions", or operations when we do it.

    And, I would repeat, that there does seem to be a callous over our consciousness - meaning our national consciousness - about the death and damage that we have brought and continue to bring to other countries and their people. And, as you know, the numbers of casualties are staggering.

    One other thing.
    I seem to be acquiring a reputation of being a negative person.
    Complaining all the time. Whining.

    I would like to suggest to those who feel that to be the case to post the good news they see happening thanks to the Obama administration. Or good news in general. I'm open to it - and would look forward to reading about it.

    But what I see before me is a country still locked in the mentality of GW Bush. I see that ghettos still exist as ever. That the police forces have become even more militarized. That journalists here are being intimidated. That whistleblowers are being threatened. That income inequality has become even worse. That the neglect of our wounded or disabled veterans continues to be cruel and shameful.

    I can't ignore these things because they affect me.

    On the other hand, I love my record collection.
    I love to cook.
    I love listening to music.
    I love my friends and family.
    I think that TalkLeft is great and unique - and that Jeralyn is amazing.

    I read and value greatly the opinions expressed here on TalkLeft.

    Thanks for clarifying (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 10:08:58 AM EST
    That line.  It bugged me too.

    I agree with you (5.00 / 2) (#39)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 01:46:39 PM EST
    I think the President is handling the situation very very well, and proving that it does not require what neocons would consider a military commitment.

    There won't be accolades for him though.  The rightwing will either use any ISIL success as proof he isn't doing enough, or if ISIL begins faltering....well, he never asked permission to use Special Forces and now he's King Kenyan.  Nor will there be many congratulations from the Left.

    Thankless damn job when it comes to ISIL :)

    Amen #2 (none / 0) (#41)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 01:53:43 PM EST
    Wake them up.. (5.00 / 2) (#47)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 11:43:18 AM EST
    isn't that what the Manson Family claimed they wanted to do?

    Emotionally shocked and traumatized people generally aren't functioning at a maximal intellectual-ethical level. Which is also why, incidentally, as a society we shouldn't let the "get even" impulses of victims guide our criminal code -- not unless we're hyper-ambitious, emotion exploiters representing the State.

    'Wake them up' seems to me to be (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by ruffian on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 11:48:52 AM EST
    psychopath for "Look at ME! Me! Me!"

    In the very good and chilling book (none / 0) (#49)
    by ruffian on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 11:51:57 AM EST
    "We Need to Talk About Kevin", the mother of a school and family mass murderer confronts her son and asks him 'why didn't you kill me too?'. He responds that she was his desired audience.

    There are a lot of groups with (none / 0) (#50)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 11:58:07 AM EST
    a public relations tin ear, but the radical Islamists I must say take the cake. They're so completely Hearts and Minds tone deaf, that I'm starting to think that they believe if they simply kill and maim enough people, Allah himself, or possibly aliens from space, will come down and intervene directly in the situation..



    Gotta say, you are asking us to comment on (none / 0) (#2)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 01:41:28 PM EST
    something most of us have not seen.

    I first discovered TL the day Daniel Pearl was killed because you discussed and linked to the video. You decided not to link to the Foley video.

    Way different camera angles... (none / 0) (#3)
    by fishcamp on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 01:49:55 PM EST
    it could be the same knife.  But I've learned my lesson on these types of comments.  

    There is still the odd way it was shot (none / 0) (#6)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 02:00:40 PM EST
    Not showing any of the actual act.   As past videos have.

    From what (none / 0) (#29)
    by lentinel on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 11:58:22 PM EST
    you say, the video does not show the actual act.

    Yet the newsmedia that I have seen universally describe the video as showing the actual execution.

    Part of the fervor in the reaction to the execution is based on the fact that the victim was beheaded. That is considered by us to be truly gross and disgusting, as of course it is.

    But how would we have reacted if this Islamic State had put a prisoner on a gurney, injected him with a chemical cocktail bought from unknown sources, and let the video run for two hours as the prisoner gasps and groans.

    What I'm getting at is that the fact of the execution does not seem to generate as much fervor as the means of execution.

    As I and others have mentioned, we slaughtered over 100,000 civilians - so far - in our Iraq adventure. And we're not done yet.
    But that fact doesn't generate much interest here - although it does seem to be a source of some interest in the region.

    So some of this seems to me to be selective outrage.
    What they do, and the way they do it is gross and barbaric.
    What we do, and the manner in which we do it, is clean, humane and impersonal and nothing we need to discuss over dinner.


    Would point out (none / 0) (#10)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 02:14:27 PM EST
    The black hand guard.  No on the one on the ground.

    One hypothesis: they've got so many (none / 0) (#23)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 07:45:35 PM EST
    knives, swords, daggers, guns, big guns, bigger guns and bombs sitting around the old TeamCreep hidey hole that they can't keep track of it all.

    Another possibility, an even uglier thought:  There was contention, a shoving match, or maybe even a few incidental beheadings over who got to have their knife displayed in that frame.  All the sociopaths fighting to have something really special to show their grand-spawn, as if.


    Yes, I thought about the black hand guard (none / 0) (#25)
    by fishcamp on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 08:01:04 PM EST
    but in the sand shot, an end of the hand guard type shot, there's a big reflection that could be the end of the big hand guard.  I don't know.

    I have the video (none / 0) (#4)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 01:52:15 PM EST
    I took the screengrabs from the actual video. I don't want to post graphic images or links to the video. It's available in numerous places. I don't remember posting the link to the Pearl video, but I well may have. Times change.

    Took me about (none / 0) (#5)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 01:54:24 PM EST
    3 minutes to find it

    Then share. (none / 0) (#7)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 02:03:35 PM EST
    I've looked multiple times and always got "this video has been removed" messages.

    do not link to it here (none / 0) (#21)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 06:43:16 PM EST
    I have said repeatedly I am not linking to it. You can google it yourself (and ignore the you tube links, it's been removed from there.)

    Sorry (none / 0) (#22)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 06:44:45 PM EST
    The Guardian has posted the audio track (none / 0) (#24)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 07:47:31 PM EST
    No need to watch.

    Thank you... (none / 0) (#28)
    by TH71 on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 10:56:12 PM EST
    for not posting the link. It's one thing to report news but I am happy to see when news outlets, blogs, etc. choose not to propagate the most violent and horrific of ISIS's actions.  

    More to the point, here (none / 0) (#11)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 02:35:10 PM EST
    in a Guardian editorial by Deborah Orr.

    You don't have to have seen the film to have picked up more detail about it than you might want to know. My own squeamish imagination is in thrall to the tiny knife, a picture of which the media in its wisdom has decided can be published freely. I'm not so sure that it's wise to bandy pictures of that (assumed) murder weapon around. Actually, I see so much meaning in that knife that I wonder if I might have strayed beyond reason on this matter.

    First, it makes a mockery of the idea that you can protect yourself from the brutality of the attack on Foley by declining to look at the film. It invites you to think about how difficult it would be, to sever a man's head with a little knife like that, and how painful. You can't help feeling that the knife was chosen for that reason.

    Actually, it's reported, even the film leaves the actual butchery to the imagination, showing only its results. However, I think that small knife was selected for reasons more fiendish even than that unwelcome invitation to imagine it being used. I think it was selected to provide a contrast with the air strikes of the military industrial complex, the air strikes that the murderer claimed were Foley's real killers. I think it was a message and a warning: "I may not have many weapons at my own disposal, but look what I'm prepared to do with whatever comes to hand."

    I guess that makes more sense than being (none / 0) (#15)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 03:07:33 PM EST
    Unprepared.  Still.  Maybe giving them too much credit?  It seemed like a badly produced project.  I see some moron yelling "CUT, no no no idiot STOP FILMING!  Can we get the psychopath double?"
    "I think he's in the trailer"

    I'm sorry (none / 0) (#16)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 03:14:21 PM EST
    I really do not at all mean to make lite of this horror.   It's just how I deal with horror.


    J, good calls on the inconsistant knives. (none / 0) (#13)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 02:49:55 PM EST
    Also, in the video, the guy saws away multiple times back and forth on Foley's throat, yet there is not a drop of blood.

    Also, I suppose we have no gaurantee (none / 0) (#18)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 04:50:07 PM EST
    that the British voice we hear on the vides is the actual voice of the Man in Black, as we can't see the MiB's mouth because it's behind the hood.

    Thanks. (none / 0) (#14)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 02:50:18 PM EST

    Everything this ISIS Bunch does (none / 0) (#17)
    by NYShooter on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 04:34:55 PM EST
    is calculated to elicit a certain response.

    We've seen the word, "baiting," being used, and, I believe that's important. Just like the Twin Towers were chosen on 9-11, specifically, to strike at the heart of our business/industrial center, so it is with ISIS in each of their atrocities.

    I just hope our leadership is capable of dealing with this new type of "war." What we need is not better weapons, but, better intelligence. I mean, do they really mean it when they say to America, "bring it on?" They know we could turn them into crystallized fossils with the push of a button. So, when they publicize their mass butchery/beheadings who are they trying to reach, us, or, the people of the Middle East?

    Bottom line, "nothing is what it seems to be."

    The way they have been operating (none / 0) (#19)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 05:09:39 PM EST
    We can crystallize them without doing the same to a lot of innocents.  That's just how they want it.  Surely they are at least smart enough to know that at this point the only complaint anyone is going to have about vaporizing them is the collateral damage.  They are going to make sure there is as much of that as possible.

    Yeah, well, (none / 0) (#27)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 08:40:04 PM EST
    Rather than focusing on the "atrocities America is committing," their stated hope, we focus on the more immediate issue, the atrocities they have just committed.  Which no one but the simplest sentient organism, or higher, could have foreseen.

    Amen (none / 0) (#36)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 10:47:55 AM EST

    unfortunately that comment was deleted (none / 0) (#59)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 12:31:27 AM EST
    for containing profanity

    Heh (none / 0) (#61)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 09:01:43 AM EST
    I almost said - that's the first time I have ever agreed with you and it will be deleted for profanity

    I say we (somehow) (none / 0) (#37)
    by jondee on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 10:56:37 AM EST
    bring in the Russians and Chinese and turn ISIS into a big greasy spot in a couple of days.

    I know they're human beings too, but they're completely and utterly forgotten how to act in any sort of evolved fashion.

    Big Mistake? (none / 0) (#38)
    by squeaky on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 11:01:38 AM EST
    No, they are smarter than they look.

    It looks like the execution video was a big mistake by ISIS though, as Americans are now scared, and if you make Americans scared, they will want their military to destroy you.

    If you make Americans scared they will give license to their congress critters to repay the debt they have to the Military Industrial Complex, and vote to enter into an unwinnable war with no cap on spending.

    GOP wet dream... all entitlement programs (save for tax breaks for the upper-middle and upper class) will be ended because the treasury will be emptied by non-ending war.

    This is exactly what ISIS wants. For one thing if you believe that dying for your religion  (Martyrdom) is one of the best things you can do in life don't they want to ape BUSH and say BRING EM ON?

    Paid for fighters aren't willing (none / 0) (#40)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 01:47:58 PM EST
    To die for a religion :). Only the ones working for free.

    Off topic comments deleted (none / 0) (#60)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 12:35:33 AM EST
    The topic is the video and execution and ISIS.