Hamas Rejects Egypt's Proposal for Cease Fire

Egypt proposed a cease-fire plan for Israel and Hamas. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has accepted it and will bring it to a vote before the Israeli Security Cabinet in the morning. (Added: The Israeli Security Cabinet has now approved it.) cabinet has approved it.)

Hamas has rejected it.

Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri already rejected the proposal late Monday night on the grounds that "we are still under occupation and resistance is the right of our people."

Here is the text of Egypt's proposal.

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    Another Day (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by koshembos on Tue Jul 15, 2014 at 02:47:24 AM EST
    Hamas must save face and declare victory. So far, their rockets failed miserably to penetrate Israeli defenses. Also Israeli response didn't conjure the typical world condemnation. Egypt will have to come up with a lollipop for Hamas Israel will agree to. It will take several more days.

    Reality (5.00 / 0) (#8)
    by Slado on Tue Jul 15, 2014 at 01:25:15 PM EST
    The sad conclusion I've come to is peace is not possible.

    The Arab nations surrounding Israel will never truly accept a Jewish state in their midst.

    As evidence I give you the persecution of non Muslims throughout the Muslim world.

    Persecution of Christians

    Persecution of Jews

    What further complicates the current issues is the dubious history of the creation of Israel in the first place.

    Creation of Israel and non creation of Palestine

    Whether we like it or not the reality is for some in the Muslim world a Jewish state is unacceptable.   And the other reality is historically they have a point.  In so much as the international community created another problem when they cared the state of Israel out of thin air.

    Israel knows all this and surrounded by people who don't really like them they are scared to give ground.   The extreme factions of Israel refuse to end the settlements or end the occupation for fear of what would come next.

    Why would they be trusting of their neighbors?  

    What historical and current realities would lead any reasonable person inside Israel to think that if we could magically go back to the 1948 borders and establish a Palestinian state the conflict would end and peace would begin anew?

    I don't think for some parts of the Arab world that would be enough.   There will never be anything truly acceptable to the extreme factions in the Muslim world other then the end of the Jewish state which is impossible thanks to their military and our support.

    Same goes for Israel.   Their extreme politics with the knowledge of the above sad reality will never go beyond the slight concessions they've been arguing over for years.   They won't end the occupation, they see the settlements as a buffer zone and in some extreme cases their God given right and so the cycle continues.

    In a strictly moral sense it's easy to understand why the Palestinian people are outraged.  They have little freedom, no economy, terrible leadership and are a continual pawn in the bigger struggle between Israel and it's Arab neighbors.

    It is a perfectly reasonable argument on their part that they too don't want to concede to the status quo and accept some sort of peace in exchange for the same horrible conditions they continue to live under.   It is also understandable that they feel like this isn't an equal negotiation or even a fair fight.   Israel holds the cards.  They are more powerful.   What reality would possibly lead a Palestinian to conclude that Israel in exchange for lasting peace would end the occupation and let them have a state to call their own?  

    It is truly depressing.   Neither side currently has the leadership to bridge these sad realities so while they make small concessions to each other the greater issues at play are never addressed because neither side can ever satisfy the extreme sides of the other.

    As evidence I give you the break down at Camp David, the assassination of Sadat and Yitzhak Rabin and countless other cease fires, accords, agreements and treaties that all eventually break down because the extremes of both sides are never happy.

    Color me jaded but I'm tired of devoting any intellectual energy to this conflict.   In my mind neither side is reasonable.  Both sides have intractable demands and 66 years of history tells me that this conflict won't end in my lifetime and probably not in my children's.

    It's just sad.

    What About a Democratic Non-Secular State? (none / 0) (#10)
    by RickyJim on Tue Jul 15, 2014 at 05:06:04 PM EST
    The Arab nations surrounding Israel will never truly accept a Jewish state in their midst.

    Did you know that some early Zionists like Albert Einstein advocated a joint state?  Since that land is famous for the miracles that happened there, it might not be as ridiculous as it might seem today.


    In some ways (none / 0) (#12)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jul 15, 2014 at 05:58:54 PM EST
    It's like the poisonous political climate in this country.  An industry and culture has grown up to service the stalemate.   People are making money from it on both sides.
    The people suffering in the crossfire are considered collateral damage for the greater good of the bottom line.  By both sides.

    History of the Holy Land (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Peter G on Tue Jul 15, 2014 at 10:18:58 PM EST
    Nina Paley does her best (which is better than I could) to explain who was there first, and then what happened.

    It is evident (none / 0) (#2)
    by lentinel on Tue Jul 15, 2014 at 05:57:55 AM EST
    that the Palestinians feel themselves to be occupied by a foreign power.

    From what I read, that perception is not entirely without merit.

    Until that issue is resolved, we will have these bloodbaths.

    You're right... (none / 0) (#3)
    by bocajeff on Tue Jul 15, 2014 at 08:34:08 AM EST
    They "feel" themselves to be occupied is much different than the reality of the situation. They could have their own State any time they want. All they have to do is accept Israel's right to exist and agree to peace. They want to continue fighting a losing battle.

    If the Palestinians would put as much effort into building a successful country as they do in trying to defeat a successful country then they would have a successful country. One in which people are clothes, fed, housed and educated. Instead they choose perpetual war.

    What a shame for the peaceful minded population.


    I see this a lot (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jul 15, 2014 at 09:59:54 AM EST
    They want to continue fighting a losing battle.

    They have been doing this for a long time.  I'm not sure by what metric they are losing any more than they are winning.  They sure aren't going away.  
    Personally I can see why both sides would in a fighting mood.   But I can definitely see why I might question the right of some tiny island half way around the world to give my land someone else because they wanted it after stealing the oil out from under my feet for generations.


    What oil are you talking about? (none / 0) (#9)
    by Wile ECoyote on Tue Jul 15, 2014 at 04:10:02 PM EST
    Olive oil?

    Israel has always been about (none / 0) (#11)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jul 15, 2014 at 05:50:17 PM EST
    The region as much as religion.   And having a foothold there.  And not for olive oil.

    What even mention (none / 0) (#13)
    by Wile ECoyote on Tue Jul 15, 2014 at 06:13:42 PM EST
    Oil in your post?

    Capt, you really should (none / 0) (#20)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jul 16, 2014 at 10:26:42 PM EST
    do a bit of research before making such statements.



    More like stealing the water (none / 0) (#22)
    by jondee on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 10:48:58 AM EST
    out from under the Palestinians.

    There is also a very tight embargo (none / 0) (#4)
    by MKS on Tue Jul 15, 2014 at 08:41:47 AM EST
    of Gaza.  That makes life very difficult.

    If the embargo is so tight, (none / 0) (#5)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Tue Jul 15, 2014 at 09:47:46 AM EST
    If the embargo is so tight, whence cometh all of those rockets?

    They (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by MKS on Tue Jul 15, 2014 at 07:43:09 PM EST
    can't build hospitals in Gaza because cement is embargoed.

    It is not surprising that weapons can be snuck in....But out-in-the-open, transparent, peaceful activities could be ensnared more readily than covert military uses and weapons.

    But many like you believe squeezing the people even on peaceful uses and goods is somehow a good idea.


    So (none / 0) (#16)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Tue Jul 15, 2014 at 11:06:29 PM EST
    So hundreds or thousands of rockets can be snuck in, but nothing to improve life in general?  That sounds more about the priorities of those doing the sneaking than the porosity of the embargo.

    No, I get it (none / 0) (#17)
    by MKS on Tue Jul 15, 2014 at 11:56:33 PM EST
    You do not like the people of Gaza and believe they deserve what they get.

    So you agree with harming all kinds of civilians to put pressure on the pathetic military capability that does exist.


    They were looking forward... (none / 0) (#18)
    by unitron on Wed Jul 16, 2014 at 02:27:20 AM EST
    ...to having their own state (Palestine) with the end of the Ottoman Empire, but then England went back on its promises to them.

    Don't forget France (none / 0) (#21)
    by Slado on Wed Jul 16, 2014 at 10:33:36 PM EST
    They helped screw them too.

    Very good edition of Fresh Air with the author of a book about Lawrence of Arabia.

    Talks all about how the two countries screwed over the Arabs.  



    "A land without a people" (none / 0) (#23)
    by jondee on Thu Jul 17, 2014 at 10:56:12 AM EST
    was an arrogant, propagandistic lie from the beginning.

    You start out denying that there's "a people" and end denying that people's humanity.



    complications upon complications (none / 0) (#7)
    by ZtoA on Tue Jul 15, 2014 at 12:03:35 PM EST
    From the NYT article J linked to:

    Egypt is widely considered the natural regional mediator in such conflicts. But Egypt's relations with Hamas, an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood, have turned bitter since the military ouster last year of Egypt's elected Islamist president, Mohamed Morsi, a leader in the Brotherhood. Under the new president, Abdel Fattah el-Sisi, a former general who led the military takeover, Egypt has shut down most of the tunnels beneath its border with Gaza that were both an economic lifeline for the Palestinian coastal enclave as well as a major channel for weapons smuggling.

    When children die... (none / 0) (#19)
    by Dadler on Wed Jul 16, 2014 at 08:07:34 PM EST