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Weds Night DNC: The "Dangerous Demagogue" vs the Qualified Woman Who Never Quits

Update: Obama knocked it out of the park at the end. So forceful, uplifting, genuine... and Here's Hillary! With Stevie Wonder's "Signed Sealed, Delivered" playing the background, the two of them make an amazing sight. I think Bill Clinton is so overcome with emotion he might cry. What a moment. Just the best. Thank you, President Obama. Welcome, Hillary Clinton. Anyone who doesn't think she will own this election is delusional. Americans are a lot of things, but they are not stupid enough to elect the inexperienced egotist Donald Trump.

Update: It's Obama time. After that horribly weak and depressing introductory video, I hope he reverses the tone and has something inspiring to say.

He does. He calls Hillary the woman who never quits, who is absolutely qualified to be President. He praises and vouches for Tim Kaine.

Best line about Trump: "Don't boo, Vote." Good question he asks: Does anyone believe that someone who never did anything for working people is now going to be your daddy?

Obama says he looks much older now than he did at his first convention 12 years ago. That would be Boston in 2004. Here's a photo I took of him at the Bloggers' Breakfast in Boston at the DNC: [More...]

He has the crowd on its feet when he discusses immigration. Which leads into his endorsement of Hillary. The crowd stands and cheers.

"Hillary forcefully argued for the mission that took out Osama bin Laden"

He's very forceful in his praise of Hillary. As to her being President:

Hillary Clinton is respected around the world not just by leaders, but by the people they serve. Sheís worked closely with our intelligence teams, our diplomats, our military. And she has the judgment, the experience, and the temperament to meet the threat from terrorism. Itís not new to her. Our troops have pounded ISIL without mercy, taking out leaders, taking back territory. I know Hillary wonít relent until ISIL is destroyed. Sheíll finish the job Ė and sheíll do it without resorting to torture, or banning entire religions from entering our country. She is fit to be the next Commander-in-Chief.

Towards the end, he says (from the prepared remarks):

Thatís why anyone who threatens our values, whether fascists or communists or jihadists or homegrown demagogues, will always fail in the end.

Thatís America. Those bonds of affection; that common creed. We donít fear the future; we shape it, embrace it, as one people, stronger together than we are on our own. Thatís what Hillary Clinton understands Ė this fighter, this stateswoman, this mother and grandmother, this public servant, this patriot Ė thatís the America sheís fighting for.

And thatís why I have confidence, as I leave this stage tonight, that the Democratic Party is in good hands.

Now he knocks it out of the park. Wow.

Time and again, youíve picked me up. I hope, sometimes, I picked you up, too. Tonight, I ask you to do for Hillary Clinton what you did for me. I ask you to carry her the same way you carried me. Because youíre who I was talking about twelve years ago, when I talked about hope Ė itís been you whoíve fueled my dogged faith in our future, even when the odds are great; even when the road is long. Hope in the face of difficulty; hope in the face of uncertainty; the audacity of hope! America, you have vindicated that hope these past eight years. And now Iím ready to pass the baton and do my part as a private citizen. This year, in this election, Iím asking you to join me Ė to reject cynicism, reject fear, to summon whatís best in us; to elect Hillary Clinton as the next President of the United States, and show the world we still believe in the promise of this great nation.

Original Post

I wanted to miss Joe Biden so I was late tuning in to the DNC. Tim Kaine starts off very boring. 3 minutes in and he's already talking about his faith. (His "north star for orienting his life".) He took a year off from school to be a missionary in Honduras to teach kids how to be welders and carpenters.

Michael Bloomberg was terrific. He had some excellent lines bashing Trump -- there was no mean-spirited name-calling, and it was much more effective as a result. The worst he called Trump was a "dangerous demagogue." Some highlights: [More....]

Throughout his career, Trump has left behind a well-documented record of bankruptcies, thousands of lawsuits, angry shareholders, and contractors who feel cheated, and disillusioned customers who feel ripped off. Trump says he wants to run the nation like he's run his business. God help us.

I'm a New Yorker, and New Yorkers know a con when we see one! Trump says he'll punish manufacturers that move to Mexico or China, but the clothes he sells are made overseas in low-wage factories. He says he wants to put Americans back to work, but he games the US visa system so he can hire temporary foreign workers at low wages. He says he wants to deport 11 million undocumented people, but he seems to have no problem in hiring them. What'd I miss here?!

Truth be told, the richest thing about Donald Trump is his hypocrisy. He wants you to believe that we can solve our biggest problems by deporting Mexicans and shutting out Muslims. He wants you to believe that erecting trade barriers will bring back good jobs. He's wrong on both counts.

His message: You don't have to love Hillary. But you owe it to yourselves, your children and grandchildren to keep Trump from becoming President, and especially Commander in Chief:

Now, I know Hillary Clinton is not flawless; no candidate is. But she is the right choice — and the responsible choice — in this election. No matter what you may think about her politics or her record, Hillary Clinton understands that this is not reality television; this is reality.

...There are times when I disagree with Hillary. But whatever our disagreements may be, I've come here to say: We must put them aside for the good of our country. And we must united around the candidate who can defeat a dangerous demagogue.

Bernie Sanders is in the audience listening to Tim Kaine. I'm surprised he isn't back home in Vermont already.

Okay, so Tim Kaine is plain, nothing fancy, not exciting and he's not inspiring me. But he's qualified, experienced and level-headed. With Trump, we'd be living on the edges of our seat for four years, wondering if his next impulsive move would be the end of all of us.

Si Se Puede!


The woman who introduced Obama was an uninspiring choice. Nor did I like the video of Obama's presidency: Very depressing. Milking Sandy Hook and Orlando. Boring announcer, his voice had no character. Trite. I hope when he speaks live, Obama has something more interesting to say.

< Tuesday Night DNC: Clinton Time
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  • Display: Sort:
    Obama-- (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by MKS on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 10:04:32 PM EST
    will miss him.

    Yeah me too. (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by ruffian on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 10:11:05 PM EST
    Lord knows I don't agree all the time but I appreciate him more as time goes by.

    Parent
    Agreed (5.00 / 3) (#6)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 10:24:02 PM EST
    I've always felt we were safe and in good hands during his Presidency, even when I didn't agree with him. He's not reckless or impulsive. He's very deliberative, weighs things out and seeks out others' opinions. I think Hillary is the same way.

    Parent
    The wonders of a legal education (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by MKS on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 10:34:49 PM EST
    Analyze, weigh the evidence.....

    Parent
    truth is -- to me (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by BackFromOhio on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 12:56:05 AM EST
    you don't learn that from a legal education; you come to law school with that frame of mind --that is, an openness to hearing other points of view. Law school teaches you discipline and how to slice  or support an argument, but open-mindedness is something you learn growing up.
    As President Obama spoke tonight, I kept thinking of our reality TV, the culture and cult of mean, of which DT is an extreme example, and longed for us to have more examples of our President's depiction of who were are and what we value.

    Parent
    I think you're mostly right. (none / 0) (#112)
    by JanaM on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 01:04:13 PM EST
    But I do think the process of learning how and disciplining yourself to analyze and dissect before coming to a conclusion can also teach one to be more open minded and avoid premature opinions.

    Parent
    And, our greatest President (none / 0) (#14)
    by MKS on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 11:14:11 PM EST
    was a lawyer.

    Parent
    And our worst president (none / 0) (#23)
    by Repack Rider on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 04:47:57 AM EST
    ...had an MBA.

    Parent
    Or, our worst President (none / 0) (#30)
    by MKS on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 08:10:58 AM EST
    was a lawyer too.  Funny how that works.

    Parent
    A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing (none / 0) (#33)
    by jondee on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 08:27:23 AM EST
    and no knowledge leads to Trump (none / 0) (#56)
    by jondee on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 10:02:04 AM EST
    for President.

    Parent
    Which lawyer-president (none / 0) (#44)
    by Peter G on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 09:21:28 AM EST
    are you nominating, MKS?

    Parent
    Tricky Dick (none / 0) (#71)
    by MKS on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 10:57:41 AM EST
    Pains me to say it, but just because Nixon (none / 0) (#108)
    by Peter G on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 12:45:57 PM EST
    was our most unabashably criminal President, I don't think I would say he was in the running to be declared our worst President.

    Parent
    Unabashedly, that is (none / 0) (#110)
    by Peter G on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 12:48:03 PM EST
    Sorry, English-speakers.

    Parent
    Fun fact (none / 0) (#32)
    by jbindc on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 08:15:14 AM EST
    Our greatest president was a general practice lawyer who, later in his legal career, became a corporate lawyer who  defended the railroads (the "big banks" of their day), and was one of the first attorneys to argue that a corporation was a "legal person".  

    And oddly, as someone who was a very successful litigator, he felt it was better to persuade people to stay out of litigation as much as possible and work it out themselves.

    Maybe Donald Trump could use that message.

    And of the 43 men who have been president,  25 have been lawyers (and Harry Truman, while not having a college degree, did study law for two years at an actual law school).  Hillary will be the 26th lawyer out of 44 people (not men anymore!)

    As for the rest of the night - I like Tim Kaine.  He's real, he's genuine, and just a good person.  Bloomberg did well, and Obama and Biden was awesome  (and that's no "malarkey"!)


    Parent

    Not to overstate the obvious (none / 0) (#48)
    by jondee on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 09:40:46 AM EST
    but it was a different different world in Lincoln's time. People knew they had to make a living, but they weren't as "careerist" as people are today. And an aspiring lawyer back then knew that being steeped in Cicero and the Bible and Shakespeare would not only lend the authority and poetry of venerable tradition to his arguments, it would in general help make him a more well-rounded person, which other people can also sense..

    It's very sad that we've become so visual, image conscious, hypercritical, and cynical today. We're losing the poetry and the soul; Lincoln's "mystic bonds of memory".

    Parent

    Plaintiff's lawyer quoted Cicero (none / 0) (#84)
    by oculus on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 11:25:30 AM EST
    in his closing in my dead coyote case. The look of befuddlement on the jurors'faces was priceless.

    Parent
    I'm fin finding I'm not as allergic (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by ruffian on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 10:07:56 PM EST
    to politicians talking about their religion if they act like they really care about people.

    Some people are inspired by their faith ... (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 11:08:21 PM EST
    ... to do right by others in service to their fellow man. And there are those who are motivated by their religion to take advantage of others and take from them because they believe it to be their Heaven-sent right to do so.

    And that's the difference between faith and religion.

    Parent

    Lol., he tickled the big dog with that line (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by ruffian on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 10:12:08 PM EST


    We don't look to be ruled (5.00 / 4) (#5)
    by ruffian on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 10:20:14 PM EST
    Wow.

    That was finally THE ONE THING that (none / 0) (#31)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 08:14:45 AM EST
    Wapo found in common with Trump supporters,  they crave authoritarianism.

    Parent
    This is so good. I could listen to him (5.00 / 3) (#7)
    by ruffian on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 10:31:33 PM EST
    talk about just about anything. Can't wait to see what he does next.

    Best hug in politics right there (5.00 / 3) (#9)
    by ruffian on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 10:46:05 PM EST
    I don't know how an endorsement gets any better than that.

    It's one that deserves a picture. (5.00 / 3) (#24)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 05:14:38 AM EST
    You said it Jeralyn. That was amazing. (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by ruffian on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 10:51:59 PM EST
    He just says it all perfectly. I can't begin to sum it up.

    Gees MSNBC, NOT ONE PERSON (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by ruffian on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 10:59:41 PM EST
    Expects Hillary to give a speech like that., least of all Hillary. Just stop.

    That's okay (none / 0) (#18)
    by MKS on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 12:17:52 AM EST
    She just needs to show herself, and need not try to top the Murder's Row of speakers.....

    Parent
    Lincoln (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by MKS on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 11:12:58 PM EST
    Andrea Mitchell said Obama is the best speechwriter since Lincoln.

    He also echoes Lincoln's view of democracy. Do we now cave to fear, or believe in democracy and working together.....  

    I liked video. And the speech. (5.00 / 3) (#15)
    by oculus on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 11:20:53 PM EST


    I liked (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 11:38:29 PM EST
    the introduction by Gold Star Mom Sharon Belkofer, the video, and the speech.

    Parent
    Sharon Belkofer was awesome. (none / 0) (#123)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 03:41:05 PM EST
    In her sorrow, she took comfort from President Obama and then inspiration from his example, running for and winning a seat on her local school board. She embodies the core essence of our democratic principles and our republican form of government.

    Parent
    These guys deserve an Emmy for this (5.00 / 3) (#17)
    by ding7777 on Wed Jul 27, 2016 at 11:50:18 PM EST
    convention Emmy Award Winning Producer Ricky Kirshner, Production Veteran Vicangelo Bulluck to Oversee Production of Convention Program

    So true (none / 0) (#20)
    by BackFromOhio on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 01:00:37 AM EST
    Did he use actors (none / 0) (#43)
    by ragebot on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 09:06:11 AM EST
    Alex Jones. Now there's a credible source (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by jondee on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 11:58:35 AM EST
    the man who's personally kept the tinfoil industry from going under in last decade.

    The Arthur Godfrey of paranoid shut-in's and agoropobics.

    Parent

    agoraphobics (none / 0) (#98)
    by jondee on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 12:01:34 PM EST
    OMG (none / 0) (#100)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 12:02:20 PM EST
    Did he actually link to Alex Jones.  I'm embarrassed for him.

    Parent
    If you polled mass shooters (none / 0) (#117)
    by jondee on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 01:34:57 PM EST
    about who their favorite radio personality was, I guarantee Alex would come in first.

    Parent
    Is it wrong (none / 0) (#118)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 01:52:22 PM EST
    to be reassured that Alex is out there though...rocking the tinfoil for all us sinners.

    He'll always have a small space in my heart for crashing Bilderberg conferences and once telling a Texas State Trooper he was a "well dressed mercenary".

    Parent

    Point taken.. (none / 0) (#119)
    by jondee on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 01:58:59 PM EST
    the problem with Alex is, the always ready at hand, all-purpose rejoinder is "consider the source".

    We're talking about a guy who proclaimed over the airwaves that the government created the deadly tornados in Oklahoma.

    Parent

    He's certifiable... (none / 0) (#120)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 02:18:53 PM EST
    no doubt, and a fear monger profiteer to the backyard apocalypse bunker set.  

    You know my sources of entertainment are sometimes perverse...I do follow politics for fun, after all.  I get a kick outta ol' Alex.

    Parent

    you're a better man than I (none / 0) (#122)
    by jondee on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 02:25:03 PM EST
    though I do dip into disinfo and loompanics on occasion when I'm feeling particularly squirrely.

    Parent
    The Craigslist ad (none / 0) (#86)
    by jbindc on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 11:28:29 AM EST
    Was a fake.  No actors.

    Parent
    It's off to the gym (5.00 / 5) (#27)
    by fishcamp on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 07:20:27 AM EST
    in a few minutes.  Hope the lawyer and ex-Marine are there.  I probably shouldn't start up with the fact that many are saying Trump committed treason by asking his buddy Putin to find Hillary's 30,000 allegedly missing emails.  But, of course, I will.

    Looking forward (none / 0) (#29)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 07:35:53 AM EST
    to a report on their defense, denial and spin.

    Parent
    One more time (none / 0) (#41)
    by ragebot on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 09:00:27 AM EST
    for all you guys who cut class the day the taught law school.

    Back when Bergdahl was pulling his stunts the topic of treason was debated longly and loudly here.  Treason is defined in the constitution and it soon became clear what ever Bergdahl did it was not treason.

    Same goes for Trump he may be a loud mouth bully who blabs about silly stuff too much but he did not commit treason.

    Parent

    I agree with you (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 09:06:00 AM EST
    People should stop saying it because it just gives them a handy deflection for the seriousness of what he did.

    read this from TIME

    Parent

    Tom Vilsack (none / 0) (#45)
    by jbindc on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 09:25:45 AM EST
    In a speech at a delegation breakfast this morning,  said he believes Trump violated the Logan Act.  This was deliberate and will not be the last time we hear that, is my guess.

    Parent
    Yes (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 09:33:01 AM EST
    I read that.  Not a lawyer and don't play one here but I'm pretty sure from what I've read this does not constitute treason.

    My only point was continuing to harp on treason just gives them an easy deflection.

    What he did was very serious.  And absolutely unprecedented.

    There are people here trying to dismiss and minimize this, I've no idea why and don't really care, but if you care Google.  There has been a sh!tload written about this.  And none of it is good for Donald.

    Parent

    I know (none / 0) (#50)
    by jbindc on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 09:44:03 AM EST
    It may not be treason, but it most definitely is a threat to our national security.

    But if the word "treason" being replayed  from now until November gets some of those Republicans in the middle that were going to hold their nose and vote for him only because he's had an R after his name,  then I'm ok with that.   Maybe it will also make the media be tougher on him.on other things - like his tax returns.

    Parent

    Maybe (none / 0) (#54)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 09:57:23 AM EST
    Jb, if the 30,000 emails are all personal (none / 0) (#59)
    by Green26 on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 10:13:01 AM EST
    emails, as Clinton has said, how could it be a threat to national security for the Russians or anyone to locate them?

    Parent
    Even as you frame it, still despeicable (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by MKS on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 11:06:11 AM EST
    He is asking Russian Intelligence to help him win the election.

    What part of that is okay with you?

    Parent

    That depends if... (none / 0) (#65)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 10:20:38 AM EST
    they were truly all personal emails...and some people say they could potentially be used for blackmail.

    I don't think the emails per say are a threat to national security...a president who wishes for foreign powers to hack his domestic political opponents could be such a threat though.  

    Personally...I don't think this world will ever have a semblance of safety in the world until no government has any secrets.  Get back to work Julian! ;)

    Parent

    I can sympathize with that sentiment to an extent (none / 0) (#66)
    by CST on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 10:24:39 AM EST
    But I would think that someone who is as pro-individual liberty/privacy as you are could appreciate that at the end of the day even politicians deserve some semblance of a private life.

    Parent
    Absolutely... (none / 0) (#79)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 11:10:39 AM EST
    I have my work email, and my personal email...the work domain is owned by the boss, and the personal is on Hotmail (don't laugh, I'm getting old).  I don't begrudge my boss full access to my work email, he owns it.  In the case of government workers, we are the boss, and should have full access to their work emails by FOIA request.  Every government employee, from president down to the lowest level clerk.  

    And if I want to communicate in total privacy, in this day and age...it's either an in person conversation or a written letter.  No other way I'm afraid, and even the written letter ain't foolproof.  Sh*t in person ain't foolproof.  Wouldn't surprise me to know the NSA can access the mic on any smartphone.

    Parent

    No (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by jbindc on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 11:14:41 AM EST
    You STILL shouldn't be entitled to EVERY email. Military plans, names of covert operatives, and attorney-client privileged docs come to mind just off the top of my head.   .

    Parent
    You're just going to have to become (none / 0) (#82)
    by jondee on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 11:17:50 AM EST
    a tribal bard and commit everything to memory.

    And maybe put it all in rhyming verse form..

    Makes me think of Ridley Walker..

    Parent

    hey (none / 0) (#83)
    by CST on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 11:21:36 AM EST
    at least it's not aol

    To me, there is a huge difference between saying that we should have full access by FOIA request and saying that it's okay for hackers to get that information for us if we don't.

    Parent

    There is a huge difference... (none / 0) (#90)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 11:41:22 AM EST
    but since the FOIA does not go far enough, and we keep far too much information classified and secret (imo), the hackers (and whistleblowers like Manning & Snowden) are the only way we are gonna find out just how much dirty we do.

    Now I wouldn't go so far as Don the Con and root for foreign governments that are filthier than ours...but I root long and hard for Wikileaks and Anonymous to leak or hack away, to keep us in the know when our own government don't want us to know.  You bet your arse!

    Parent

    I might feel different about wikileaks (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by CST on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 11:51:28 AM EST
    If they were equal opportunity.  If it were really about keeping us in the know - it wouldn't just be the DNC emails that we're reading.  They are clearly pushing an agenda.

    Whistle blowing is also very different from hacking, IMO.

    Parent

    That belief is (none / 0) (#99)
    by JanaM on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 12:01:46 PM EST
    incredibly naive and simplistic.

    Why does an email from one State Dept diplomat to the SOS to be warned that a head of state of an ally we are negotiating a delicate matter with has terribly bad breath have to be shared with you? Or negotiating tips?

    If people are so keen to know everything then get a job where you have access to such things. Indiscriminate leaks are irresponsible and potentially dangerous and that's what your "heroes" essentially did.

    Parent

    Donald Trump (none / 0) (#74)
    by jbindc on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 11:01:48 AM EST
    And his recklesness is a threat to our national security, not info about Chelsea's wedding or Hillary's yoga class.

    And let's not forget, because he is the official nominee, he will be getting a classified briefing in a couple of weeks. If that doesn't scare you, then I don't know what will.

    Parent

    Security briefings for candidates (none / 0) (#113)
    by JanaM on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 01:06:35 PM EST
    can be limited by the President IIRC. But that limit has to apply to both sides. Maybe someone else can weigh in.

    Parent
    That's ok... (none / 0) (#115)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 01:19:39 PM EST
    when your president says no, Putin says yes! Clinton and Trump can fly to Moscow together for the briefing, they can bring handcuffs if they should bump into their common enemy, whistleblower Ed Snowden.

    Parent
    The Logan Act -- adopted in the first (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by Peter G on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 02:20:29 PM EST
    Adams Administration (which is not a compliment) -- is vaguely worded and essentially never enforced. I mean, if Tom Cotton and his gang were not indicted for trying to scuttle the Iran nuclear deal by writing directly to the Iranian leadership in opposition to our government's position, then there is no Logan Act. Throwing around accusations of violation of the Logan Act is just political rhetoric.

    Parent
    To be explicit about where I'm coming from (none / 0) (#126)
    by Peter G on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 04:19:30 PM EST
    I don't care to participate in or encourage an our-side equivalent of the gleeful, lynch-mob style RNC changes of "Lock her up." No kangaroo courts for me, no mob rule, and no trial by public opinion. Not even for someone I despise.

    Parent
    Well, you're no (none / 0) (#128)
    by JanaM on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 04:28:34 PM EST
    fun.

    Parent
    Others (such as family members) (none / 0) (#131)
    by Peter G on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 04:51:40 PM EST
    have said the same.

    Parent
    Sigh (none / 0) (#127)
    by TrevorBolder on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 04:28:26 PM EST
    Seriously!

    None of this comes even close to Senator Ted Kennedy
    http://tinyurl.com/mqpnzp

    Composed in 1983 by Victor Chebrikov, the top man at the KGB, the memorandum was addressed to Yuri Andropov, the top man in the entire USSR. The subject: Sen. Edward Kennedy.

    "On 9-10 May of this year," the May 14 memorandum explained, "Sen. Edward Kennedy's close friend and trusted confidant [John] Tunney was in Moscow." (Tunney was Kennedy's law school roommate and a former Democratic senator from California.) "The senator charged Tunney to convey the following message, through confidential contacts, to the General Secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, Y. Andropov."

    Kennedy's message was simple. He proposed an unabashed quid pro quo. Kennedy would lend Andropov a hand in dealing with President Reagan. In return, the Soviet leader would lend the Democratic Party a hand in challenging Reagan in the 1984 presidential election. "The only real potential threats to Reagan are problems of war and peace and Soviet-American relations," the memorandum stated. "These issues, according to the senator, will without a doubt become the most important of the election campaign."

    Parent

    Not trying to dis the (none / 0) (#51)
    by ragebot on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 09:47:57 AM EST
    Russians.  But a while back I posted a link to a NYT blurb about the DNC hack.  Way back when the FBI alerted the DNC of attempts to hack them the DNC hired a security firm to address the issue.  One comment about the report from the security firm was an eye opener.

    APTs 28 and 29? As in there's 27 more advanced persistent threats that still probably have access to the DNC network? They've got more problems than just the Russians if that's the case.

    Not sure if the Russians were at the back of the line but being numbers 28 ans 29 sure does not put them in first place as the best hackers.  I still try to keep up with tec stuff and it is obvious China has the best and most folks involved.  A little shock to me was that Korea also seems to be ahead of a lot of larger and richer countries.

    There is also the old line that we only hear about the CIA's failures; never their wins.  The FBI may be investigating the DNC hack but I would put my money on the CIA and NSA for having the best nerds.

    And anyone who things Trump will have legal problems as a result of his blabbing needs a reality check.

    Parent

    If you read about this (none / 0) (#53)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 09:56:41 AM EST
    You will learn that while we can't know because those who know won't tell us but everything indicates the Russians did the act in question.  There is a lot of evidence pointing to them.  Have they been hacked by the Chinese?  Who knows. Probably.  But the Russians did this.  That is pretty clear.

    As far a Donsld and "legal troubles" you IMO are correct.  I never meant to suggest he would.  That said, from what I have read it's absolutely not impossble.  I've read almost certainly not until after the election to avoid the appearance of trying to influence it but it could happen.

    But
    This could be will be and definitely SHOULD be an issue in this election.   Can you imagine the sh!tstirm if Hillary did this.

    They should hit him with it and hit him with it and then beat him with it.  And they will.

    Parent

    What is the act in question (none / 0) (#67)
    by ragebot on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 10:34:01 AM EST
    The security firm hired by the DNC said they found two hack done by Russians.  Those hacks were APT28 and APT29.  Is that the act?  Or is the act the actual release of the hacked emails?  It is not unreasonable to think some of the other 27+ hackers also have the emails.  Do you think only the Russians are capable of releasing the emails and none of the other hackers would.

    I am too old to have taken the new math as a student but to me than means there were 27 APTs before the two Russian attacks and possibly more after.

    Those were just the hacks that were discovered and no mention was made of APTs after the two Russian hacks.  What's the over under that the Russians were not the last to hack.

    I also linked to a VICE show Who is Anonymous?  It was interesting to me that governments had infiltrated anonymous.  When asked which governments the answer was all of them.

    It seems obvious to me that the problem of Russians hacking the DNC is only a small part of the problem.  Who else hacked the DNC, and maybe more to the point how many foreign governments other than the Russians hacked the DNC.

    And it is not just the DNC.  China has been implicated in hacking things like our power supply.  Again not trying to dis the DNC but I am much more worried about our electric grid going down than some pols writing embarrassing emails.

    Not to mention that if Russia/whoever really does have the 30k emails Hillary deleted and releases them it will be a huge black eye for the FBI that was not able to recover them.

    Back to last nights convention.  One talking head said what ever Trump's motivation was he was able to get the MSM and Democrats to take their eye off the ball (heavy hitters speaking at the convention) and look at his newest shiny object.

    Parent

    It's their M.O. (5.00 / 4) (#73)
    by Repack Rider on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 11:01:08 AM EST
    Those who are outraged by Donald Trump's blatant attempt to involve Russia in our election should remember that Republican presidential candidates have conspired with foreign countries on at least two occasions in order to be elected.

    Richard Nixon conspired with South Vietnam in 1968 to delay peace talks brokered by Lyndon Johnson so he could hang the war around the necks of Democrats. Then, after promising during the campaign to end the war, he extended it, screwing both the US AND Vietnam.

    In 1980 Ronald Reagan conspired with Iran to keep the hostages until after Jimmy Carter lost the election. Iran symbolically released them while Reagan was being inaugurated.

    Treason. It's what they do.

    Parent

    Crimea is more disturbing (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by MKS on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 11:03:50 AM EST
    Trump wants to recognize Russian annexation of the Crimea.

    See, Putin says nice things about The Donald, and he reciprocates.....

    Parent

    I don't think (none / 0) (#129)
    by TrevorBolder on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 04:31:13 PM EST
    Trump knew where Crimea was, when asked that action.

    His fallback answer, we'll look into it

    Parent

    Could be (none / 0) (#132)
    by MKS on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 04:54:56 PM EST
    But then he has publicly stated a position on it.

    Talk about giving away the store, negotiating with yourself, etc.  And he is the master negotiator.

    What a disaster.

    Parent

    Agree. (none / 0) (#72)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 10:59:25 AM EST
    From what he said, and what we know, it is not treason.  He exercised constitutionally protected wackadoodle speech.  However, Trump is not simply a guy in a bar spouting off; he is a candidate for president who is, essentially, challenging Russia to commit a crime. Even his running mate, Pence, falls off Trump's wagon on this one.

     And, of course, his irresponsible speech confirms what is clear for all who care to see, he is unfit to be commander in chief.  His exercise of free speech, in this case, strengthens the perception that Trump is favoring Putin policies and actions.  And, based on Trump's self-proclaimed business and negotiating skills, it suggests that he has entered into a bargain, a bigly bargain.

    Parent

    Tweeting vaguely but not quite (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 11:58:18 AM EST
    treasonous things: tweeson. Guilty as charged.

    Parent
    Well since I doubt (none / 0) (#107)
    by JanaM on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 12:34:19 PM EST
    we have all the facts we really don't know what, if anything, Trump is guilty of. We don't know what communications or agreements he or his agents have had with those associated with Putin.

    His reckless talk may just be the tip of the iceberg. Wanna bet it's being cautiously and discreetly looked into?

    So I suppose we are free to speculate as those have done for 25 years with Hillary.

    Parent

    ruffian, (none / 0) (#114)
    by JanaM on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 01:07:33 PM EST
    love it. Gwilty of Tweeson.

    Parent
    It was just hanging there, a low fast ball (none / 0) (#116)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 01:27:27 PM EST
    right over the plate...I can't help myself sometimes.

    Parent
    Agreed, what Trump's done is not treason. (none / 0) (#124)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 03:53:12 PM EST
    Rather, his remarks throughout the entire campaign have ranged afar from remarkably vulgar to insensitively callous, and from shockingly immature to extraordinarily intemperate. Taken collectively, his body of public statements is clearly unbecoming of someone who aspires to the highest office in the land. And the more he opens his mouth, the further he forfeits his right to further consideration from most thinking Americans.

    Parent
    HEH (none / 0) (#61)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 10:14:23 AM EST
    Well, retired military types may not be as hep to sarcasm as retired camera guys and us telcom dwebs...

    But then neither is the media and other Hillary supporters...

    ;-)

    Parent

    Well, (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by jbindc on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 11:38:19 AM EST
    The retired Rear Admiral amd former JAG officer, John Hutson, didn't see it as "a joke" or "sarcasm" when he spoke last night. In fact, he called it "criminal intent."

    So, since he used sarcasm to get his point across, I think he's pretty "hep".

    And if you're on Twitter and follow retired Air Force Col. Morris Davis, the Chief Guantanamo Prosecutor (2005-2007),  he didn't really take Trump's words as a joke, yet he seems to have a wicked sense of humor and sarcasm about lots of other things (especially concerning Trump).

    Parent

    Thanks, jb, (none / 0) (#109)
    by JanaM on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 12:46:53 PM EST
    I'll check them out.

    Parent
    ;-) Sail on sail on ship of state! (none / 0) (#62)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 10:15:51 AM EST
    Well, retired military types may not be as hep to sarcasm as retired camera guys and us telcom dwebs...

    But then neither is the media and other Hillary supporters...

    ;-)

    Parent

    Yes, when you guys settle on a talking point (5.00 / 3) (#69)
    by jondee on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 10:48:00 AM EST
    the way African killer bees settle on a hive location.

    All together now: Trump was just joking. Any fool could see that.

    At least this time you can't say "Hey! He's just an entertainer!" the way you do when Limbaugh says something moronic. But then again, maybe you can.

    Parent

    Agreed. (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 11:36:28 AM EST
    Any fool could see he was joking.   As for the most getting under the skin part of the president's speech, was calling attention to Trump's human bankruptcy--in the sense of having done nothing over his long, 70 years to be your daddy (excluding the sugar variety).

    Parent
    Pick the word (5.00 / 2) (#28)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 07:31:13 AM EST
    that best applies, for the following well-crafted line (the or's may or may not be in the disjunctive): "That's why anyone who threatens our values, whether fascists, or communists, or jihadists, or homegrown demagogues, will always fail in the end."  

    Hint: Mrs. Cllinton seeks help in her election from the President of the USA, Trump seeks help in his election from the President of Russia.

    Eight years ago (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by CST on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 08:54:09 AM EST
    In the heat of the primary - could anyone have imagined this?

    I've always liked Obama, I voted for him in that primary, and I've never regretted it.  But it was also that year that Hillary brought me back into the fold so to speak, and I thought - this woman could also be a great president.  It felt like we had such a great choice that year.  And even with McCain - say what you will about him, his choice of VP, his policy, his party - he seems like a decent human being.  I wasn't afraid of him winning (or Romney for that matter) the way I'm afraid of Donald Trump winning.

    Like Obama - I believe this country is much better off than it was 8 years ago, and I truly think that if we do send a full slate of D's to Washington that things could continue to improve and the future is bright.  On the other hand...

    This country is clearly in a much darker place than it was back then.  And that gives me great pause.  I'm starting to get nervous Trump could win.  And every ounce of progress we've made as a country, every step towards that more perfect union will just go up in smoke.  But the thought of that doesn't make me sad - it makes me angry, furious even.  How could so many people put so much at risk?

    The stakes have certainly never been higher in my lifetime.

    What's (none / 0) (#52)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 09:53:14 AM EST
    Scary to me is we have people ready to embrace fascism in this country and are either too ignorant or hateful to realize what they are doing.

    Parent
    Where you been? (none / 0) (#55)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 10:00:36 AM EST
    I have (none / 0) (#58)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 10:12:34 AM EST
    Been in Minnesota and now on the way to Virginia.  People in Minnesota loathe trump. So some good news there. I'll teport back from Virginia.  Embrace of Putin should shock some people

    Parent
    Don't forget desperate... (none / 0) (#57)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 10:10:13 AM EST
    One could argue a fascist wanna-be dictator like Donald Trump is the natural outcome of at least 35 years of betrayal of the working & middle class by the political class.  Desperation, hopelessness, resentment, and anger all lead people to do all kinds of stupid, harmful things...like voting for Don the Con.

    Parent
    I know it's an overused argument (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by CST on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 10:16:39 AM EST
    But the similarities of this era to the rise of Fascism in the 30s across Europe - not just the Axis countries - is remarkable.

    We've seen this before on the heels of a different depression, and it wasn't just Hitler.  There were Fascists rising all over the west.  Hell, even FDR put the Japanese in camps.  Donald may not be Hitler2.0, but he doesn't have to be to do real damage, and people's fears are not overblown.

    Parent

    A lot (none / 0) (#64)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 10:19:06 AM EST
    Of these same voters were bad off before then though. When it all became about skin color there was just an illusion that they were better off and then there's people that were worse off back then. Dont forget that the past was not sunshine and roses for a lot of people.

    Parent
    Yes and no... (5.00 / 3) (#70)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 10:52:51 AM EST
    True, in the past when we were "great" (lol), the broked*ck white man could always look at the black man or a woman and feel better about his lot.  Now poor and working class, economically speaking, is the new black. While there are still undeniable advantages to being a white man, the playing field has leveled considerably.  Which is great news, but is the cause of some resentment amongst older white men.  But that's not the whole story....

    There was a time when the CEO made 10-15 times the worker, an equitable split of the pie, and working middle class people had some economic security that does not exist today.  Now the CEO makes 150 times the worker and the majority of Americans are living check to check.  Could be as high as 75%.  And they are in debt up to their eyeballs.  There is a downward spiral that is real for all working/middle class people, and good reason for bitterness and anger.  You can't dismiss all of it as just bitter old white men who miss their privilege.  That's only telling a small fraction of the story.

    Parent

    Yeah, a little self-indulgence (none / 0) (#78)
    by jondee on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 11:08:40 AM EST
    and enjoying the finer things is fairly healthy, but what's been going on in the business arrangment between the deracinated 1% and the middle, working class, and our poor borders on depraved late-Roman Empire stuff..

    It's no wonder at all that word "revolution" is so much in circulation these days.

    Parent

    Tell ya the truth... (none / 0) (#85)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 11:28:04 AM EST
    surprised it's taken this long...a testament to the opiate-like effects of cheap toys and television and...actual drugs;)

    Parent
    did you see my Robertson quote (none / 0) (#91)
    by jondee on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 11:41:40 AM EST
    yesterday? Apparently it didn't pass muster.

    Parent
    Nah, missed it... (none / 0) (#95)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 11:51:39 AM EST
    but knowing you, it was surely poignant whatever it was!

    Parent
    relating events of 1995.. (none / 0) (#106)
    by jondee on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 12:11:30 PM EST
    from the mouth of Ronnie Hawkins and in reference to Arkansas traditions about what sort of behavior constitutes adultery and what doesn't..

    Parent
    Figured... (none / 0) (#111)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 12:57:29 PM EST
    it was something from Robbie, and not Pat:)

    Parent
    I am firmly for Hillary and would never vote for (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by Green26 on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 10:37:46 AM EST
    Trump, but I continue to be struck by how so few of the speakers seem to have or express any understanding or appreciation for business, the economy and job creation, and where the money will come from to fund all of these many and mostly worthy programs. My wife and I have been on vacation, so have had time to watch many of the minor speakers too. The speakers and the production have been very good and impressive.

    The lack of business/economy/jobs understanding and appreciation is, as an independent, my biggest gripe with Democrats, or the vast majority of Democrats. In my view, a strong economy and job creation, which brings increased tax revenues, is what enables the US to fund programs and help those in need.

    One of the things I like about Hillary and Bill, is that I do believe they have a good understanding of the importance of business/economy/jobs. Hillary gets attacked for being too close to business or Wall Street, but that is largely unfair, in my view.

    While, again, I suppose many of you will not agree, in my view, Hillary is correct, or largely correct, in the times when she has supported or seemed to support business and Wall Street. These constitute the bulk of the engine that drives the US economy and enables the US to fund programs. To put it bluntly, money doesn't grow on trees. Sure, there is plenty of greed, etc. out there, but greed also often helps drive business growth. Sensible regulation is good, but being anti-business is counterproductive, in my view.

    Twice in the last 90 years, ... (5.00 / 2) (#125)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 04:07:42 PM EST
    Green26: "I continue to be struck by how so few of the speakers seem to have or express any understanding or appreciation for business, the economy and job creation, and where the money will come from to fund all of these many and mostly worthy programs."

    ... it's been the Democrats, and not the Republicans, who have stepped up to save this country from an economic free-fall and subsequent collapse.

    Further, it can be fairly argued that it was the Republicans' own economic policies, underscored and compounded by their own innate lack of understanding about the inherent nature of financial and commodities markets when left unfettered, which precipitated both economic crises engendered by the Great Depression and the Great Recession, respectively.

    So as far as the Democrats' own understanding of the nation's economy is concerned, I'd offer that the Democrats' body of work over the many decades tends to speak for itself.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    I think you make some excellent points. (none / 0) (#105)
    by JanaM on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 12:10:46 PM EST
    I also think Hillary is smartly aware of what drives a healthy economy and she is smart and responsible about how and what programs we can get funded.

    Parent
    Hi folks (5.00 / 1) (#130)
    by flyerhawk on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 04:34:56 PM EST
    Long time no chat.

    The President's speech was spectacular last night!  Great to hear him so clearly differentiate between the obvious choice and the horrible choice.  

    Hoping that Hillary's kills it tonight.  

    Trump sent out an email to his supporters urging them to not watch the convention as the Democrats have been killing the Republicans ratings wise.

    There are still idiots out there (4.00 / 1) (#21)
    by BarnBabe on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 03:35:27 AM EST
    "Does anyone believe that someone who never did anything for working people is now going to be your daddy?"

    Since the beginning I have truly believed that the intelligent or educated people out there would see through his nonsense. Wrong. The amazing thing is I have had several arguments with people in that category who hate Hillary so much for no reason other than she is a woman and Donald makes more sense. Oh yeah, and she lied about emails and should be in jail. My one x-NY Cop stood in my Living Room saying his wife and 2 daughters are voting for Trump. He was yelling really. I didn't say it but I was thinking, I would tell you that just to shut you up. But back to who likes Trump. I think there are a lot of men who will not vote for her. The same ones who would not vote for Obama because he was black. They will not admit it but I know it. I tell them that when they complain about him and they start back peddling. Shuts them up.

    In the beginning, I felt like you. Now, I have that slight fear because of the arguments. Scares me for sure. BTW, they flashed to Debbie Wasserman in the audience but nothing was said. Anyone else see her?

    This is why it is a real contest (5.00 / 2) (#39)
    by MKS on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 08:54:44 AM EST
    between democracy and tyranny as framed by Obama.

    Democracy is not destined to prevail.  There is a reason dictators have risen to power.

    Parent

    When people tell you Trump can't win this election (none / 0) (#34)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 08:39:48 AM EST
    It might be wise to see if the said they same thing about the primary.  With equal conviction.

    Parent
    And that just a spot of logic (none / 0) (#36)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 08:47:40 AM EST
    That doesn't even consider the fact he's ahead of her in the polls.  Even at 538.

    Look, I've said for a year I think Hillary will win.  And I do.  I've also said I think Donald COULD win.  And I do.  IMO even saying this is over or will be easy is andolutely the most dangerous and misguided thing you can do.  If we are complacent we will lose.  

    Parent

    Is it at all meaningful that he would be (none / 0) (#46)
    by Peter G on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 09:29:45 AM EST
    ahead in the polls this week, with the benefit of his "convention bump" and before she gets hers? Are the "polls" in question projections of the popular vote, or of the Electoral College?

    Parent
    This is from a few days ago (none / 0) (#49)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 09:42:34 AM EST
    Silver's "now-cast," updated with fresh surveys on Monday, shows Trump's current likelihood of winning at 57.5 percent, compared with Clinton's 42.5 percent. In the 11 battleground states, Colorado, Virginia and Michigan would go to Clinton, while Florida, Nevada, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Iowa would go to Trump.
    The breakdown shifts a bit between the Electoral College and the popular vote. Silver's model currently predicts the popular vote going 45.4 percent to Trump vs. 45.1 percent to Clinton, but the Electoral College giving Trump a wider margin of victory, 285 votes and Clinton 252.6.
    The model predicts that Libertarian candidate Gary Johnson will garner just 0.4 Electoral College votes despite winning 8.2 percent of the popular vote.
    Clinton still leads in 538's polls-plus model, Silver notes, as it accounts for any post-convention bounces that are likely to fade.

    There has been news from 538 since questioning there coverage of Trump.  Like I said.  I think Hillary wins.   But I'm not terribly confident of that.  

    For one thing I suspect Trumps numbers could be consistently higher that the polls say because some won't want to admit they indent to vote for him.   This has also been written about by pollsters.

    Parent

    If you know many Trump supporters (4.00 / 1) (#60)
    by CST on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 10:13:13 AM EST
    You should know that they aren't exactly afraid to speak their minds.

    I think the idea that they don't want to admit that they support him flies in the face of everything his supporters do.

    Also, this did not play out in the primary, there were no hidden Trump supporters in the votes compared to the polls.  Beyond the occasional anomaly, which would exist for any candidate, any suggestion that this is a meaningful number of people is just wishful thinking by Trump supporters, IMO.

    Parent

    Well (none / 0) (#89)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 11:39:19 AM EST
    A.). It's a minor point
    B.). This is the general not the primary.  Very different voting block.  And yes I do know Trump supporters and yes they have been les and less willing to defend him the crazier he gets.  It's my belief they will still vote for him but they don't want to talk about it.

    As I said this has been discussed quite a bit by pollsters,  I will see if I can find some.

    Parent

    And I going to say this again (5.00 / 2) (#93)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 11:46:58 AM EST
    Everyone who is now saying there is no way he can win the election are the very same people who were absolutely sure beyond any possible reasonable doubt that he would never EVER win the primary.

    When I was crying in the wilderness about the primary I said then my greatest fear was that denial in the primary would mutate into denial in the general.  And look around.

    Donald is NOT a fool.  He acts like one but he is not.  He knows exactly what he is doing.  Hes is crazy like a fox and he is a dangerous dangerous man.

    His primary opponents dismissed him and where are they now.  We can not dismiss him.  The silver lining IMO is that Hillary is absolutely NOT dismissing him and is taking him very very seriously.  We need to do the same.

    Parent

    not much different (none / 0) (#103)
    by pitachips on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 12:04:39 PM EST
    Then people who thought that Obama's poll numbers weren't to be trusted because in the privacy of the voting booth many whites who claimed to support him would vote McCain/Romney.

    I think right now we are so far from voting day that the polls are essentially meaningless. We have yet to see the result of the billion dollars or so in Clinton ads; the debates; the massive get out to vote/voter registration effort that will support Hillary. The closer we get to November I think you will start seeing Trump's support even among establishment Republicans slipping.

    Parent

    Yes it is (5.00 / 1) (#104)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 12:08:45 PM EST
    But could we please not start talking bout how "it's over" and how "Hillary will win easily" so lazy people thnk it's ok to stay home and not vote.

    Could we do that?

    Parent

    They are already airing... (none / 0) (#133)
    by kdog on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 05:11:00 PM EST
    the shi+ out of the ad with the little kids watching Trump speak crudely and rudely. I see it twice a day and I don't watch that much tv. I must say it's pretty effective.

    Parent
    In 2004 (none / 0) (#22)
    by Repack Rider on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 04:45:00 AM EST
    ...I told my Black employees after Mr. Obama spoke at that year's convention, "If there is ever going to be a Black President of the United States, I just saw him last night.  He had a funny name, I can't remember it now."

    It was interesting (none / 0) (#37)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 08:51:20 AM EST
    The way he mentioned that last.  Like he was aware he was closing a circle.  It was amazing.  Maybe the best speech I've ever heard.  He did everything he wanted to do. And didn't seem t break a sweat.

    And there will be others. He's not done with Donald.

    Parent

    Confused (none / 0) (#25)
    by kinderly gross on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 06:34:52 AM EST
    too hard to understand why they are not going for all out attack like Trumph? Don't know what is the thing they are waiting for!

    Glowgaze

    Site violator. (none / 0) (#26)
    by oculus on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 07:13:00 AM EST
    Check out this photo (none / 0) (#35)
    by MKS on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 08:40:31 AM EST
    It looks like it is photo shopped.  But it is real.

    Thinking about that photo and the whole (4.50 / 2) (#101)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 12:03:15 PM EST
    extraordinary scene on stage at the end of Obama's speech...as well as his, Michelle's, and Biden's speeches themselves...do you think they would have been so fervent and emotional about endorsing an outsider, instead of someone they had worked closely with and grown to know and appreciate over the course of years? That's the best advantage of being a dedicate member of a party.

    It is not rigging the system to earn people's respect, trust, and yes, love, as is clearly evident in that picture.

    Parent

    Already post above. (none / 0) (#40)
    by MKS on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 08:55:00 AM EST
    zj (none / 0) (#77)
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    We're being spammed by (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by jondee on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 11:45:25 AM EST
    Boris and Natasha again.

    That's what Hillary gets for joining forces with moose and squirrel.

    Parent

    SITE VIOLATOR (none / 0) (#81)
    by jbindc on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 11:16:23 AM EST
    ZJ in allall kinds of threads with this LONG spam.

    Now THIS is serious. (none / 0) (#102)
    by JanaM on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 12:03:21 PM EST
    Hiw did they hack my Christmas wish list?

    Parent