Monday Open Thread

I'm swamped today. Here's an open thread, all topics welcome.

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  • Speaking of images (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by ZtoA on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 02:01:30 PM EST
    The NSA is gathering faces. Millions of them.

    NSA Collecting Millions of Faces from Web Images. NYT

    I stopped putting (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 08:59:06 PM EST
    Personal photos of family up much because I suspected that.  How sad

    It isn't that anyone in the family has anything to hide, it's creepy though how this could be used against grandchild long after you are worm food.


    Time for all Americans... (none / 0) (#14)
    by Dadler on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 02:29:47 PM EST
    ...to don masks. Uncle Sam, Sojourner Truth, Guy Fawkes, Mother Jones, Sam the Butcher, I don't care, just wear them and let's get our freedom on.

    Phuck the roof, raise the floor!!!


    The othe day on my FB page (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 02:32:37 PM EST
    A link popped up to a workshop conducted by some subversive makeup and effects people on simple things you can do to make your face unrecognizable to facial recognition software.

    Michael Jackson (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by sj on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 06:12:43 PM EST
    may have been on to something with using veils and masks to obscure the features of his children.

    Who knows? The NSA may start a new fad -- veils, masks, tattoos.  Okay, probably not tattoos because that's permanent, but wigs and bizarre makeup.

    It could happen. And may the odds be ever in your favor.


    Boom (none / 0) (#16)
    by Dadler on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 02:39:13 PM EST
    Even if only a few people do it at first, I swear, it will catch on. Then again, I'm a loving lefty dreamer. And what the hell do we know?

    A lot, I hope.

    Peace out.


    Time for everyone, (5.00 / 3) (#19)
    by Zorba on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 03:05:19 PM EST
    men as well as women, to wear the niqab/burqa/chador in public.

    Sorry, Mme. Zorba, but I don't do burqas. (none / 0) (#22)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 03:47:57 PM EST
    Would donning drag or clown makeup suffice?

    You may do the clown makeup (none / 0) (#26)
    by Zorba on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 04:17:11 PM EST
    But only if you add a huge red rubber nose.    ;-)

    Okay, but if I do, please be forewarned ... (none / 0) (#42)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 05:30:26 PM EST
    ... of what might happen if ever I'm allowed to do a kids' show on TV.

    Broken link (none / 0) (#44)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 05:33:11 PM EST
    On the Edgar of my seat

    Lol (none / 0) (#45)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 05:34:14 PM EST
    Spell correct, gotta love it

    Okay, Edgar. (none / 0) (#47)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 05:42:52 PM EST
    I don't know how that happened, but I'm sure that you'll remember Koko from "The Groove Tube," right?

    I was thinking more (none / 0) (#122)
    by Zorba on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 07:10:02 AM EST
    along the lines of  this clown.

    Ha (none / 0) (#129)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 09:18:18 AM EST
    Me to.  That is one of my very favorite King stories and I devour King.  I am Annie Wilkes.  Until the last few years as we drifted apart I have pretty much everything he ever wrote in hardcover.  
    But about IT
    One of my very earliest memories, this is obviously from a time before I really understood the language, was of hearing grown ups talk about a cyclone.  I didn't know what that was but a CYCLOWN that came down from the sky to kill everyone sounded pretty go@@amned terrible.  I had trouble with clown with until I was a teenager. I could NEVER watch Bozo.
    I told a therapist friend about this once and he almost fell out of his chair laughing which I thought was quite unprofessional.  And told him so.

    Yes, that was (5.00 / 2) (#131)
    by Zorba on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 09:43:58 AM EST
    pretty rude of your therapist friend.  Not that you were his patient, but still........

    Admit it (5.00 / 1) (#135)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 10:08:49 AM EST
    You laughed

    BTW (none / 0) (#133)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 09:55:14 AM EST
    I love Tim Curry but that TV movie was beyond awful.  That story is probably the best example of one of the two kinds of stories King writes.  One kind, Misery, Dolores Claiborne, Stand By Me, The Green Mile are made for transfer to the screen.  The other kind, IT,  Pet Sematery, The Tommyknockers, The Stand (I think) simple can not be successfully transferred to the screen because he has the ability to scare the hell out of you with the silliest stuff that no amount of theater art can make anything but laughable.

    The Dark Tower in being made now.  IMO, and I think in his, the best thing he ever wrote.  And possibly the hardest thing to bring to the screen.  We will see.


    Did King write "Delores Claiborne" (none / 0) (#141)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 10:30:13 AM EST
    Intending it be staged as an opera?  

    Just googled THATS EXCELLENT (none / 0) (#151)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 10:53:04 AM EST
    I would say no but it's perfect.  I done even like opera and I would love to see it.  Do you know the story?  If not you should find the movie.  IMO if Kathy Bates had not won an oscar the previous year for Misery she would have at least been nominated for it.  It is probably my favorite King movie and it seemed to sort of go unnoticed.  Directed by Taylor Hackford, Hellen Mirens husband.

    Also the story of the book is a good one.  King writes so much he does weird sh!t just to keep himself from getting bored I guess.  Green Mile was published in sequential little books and Dolores Clairborne was written as if it was a statement or a confession being written by a defendant.  Interesting I would think to a lawyer.  And not an easy way to write a book, being all first person.  And what a book.


    Find the movie (none / 0) (#152)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 10:54:06 AM EST
    Or better read the book

    It is already an opera but not a very good one. (none / 0) (#153)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 10:56:23 AM EST
    I saw it in San Francisco.

    Heh (none / 0) (#156)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 11:10:23 AM EST
    I would expect the crowd might have some people you might not usually see at the opera.

    I would still like to see it.  


    Speaking of Sam the Butcher... (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by kdog on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 03:33:59 PM EST
    RIP Ann B. Davis aka Alice, the recipient of many an order of Sam The Butcher's meat.

    Strange how we remember her for ... (none / 0) (#28)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 04:23:33 PM EST
    ... "The Brady Bunch," much like we do the great character actress Agnes Moorhead -- a four-time Oscar nominee -- in her TV role as Darrin Steven's overbearing mother-in-law Endora in "Bewitched." I suppose it's a generational thing.

    Ann B. Davis actually achieved fame and renown much earlier in "The Bob Cummings Show" (1955-59) -- not to mention winning two Emmy Awards -- as Charmain "Schultzy" Schultz, the lovelorn and plain-looking secretary who absolutely crushed on her dashingly handsome boss, Hollywood photographer Bob Collins (Bob Cummings), and often served as the comic foil to his constant womanizing.

    (I remember that show when it ran in syndication as "Love That Bob!", and it was rather wickedly sly for its moralizing era. In the 1996 spoof "The Brady Bunch Movie," Ms. Davis also has a cameo appearance as a truck driver named "Schultzy.")

    In fact, according to her L.A. Times obit, she received her star on Hollywood Blvd.'s Walk of Fame in 1960, which was well before she took on the role of Alice in "The Brady Bunch."

    Hers was a gentle and good-hearted soul. She'll be missed.


    This is how I remember (none / 0) (#36)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 04:46:35 PM EST
    Agnes Moorehead

    Posted about Ann B last night.  Never watched Brady's I remember her from the older shoes.


    Here's how I remember Agnes Moorehead, ... (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 05:12:50 PM EST
    ... in her Oscar-nominated role as Aunt Fanny from Orson Welles' 1942 classic "The Magnificent Ambersons."

    She was always one of the very best at her craft.


    I got (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by lentinel on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 07:09:54 PM EST
    a tape of her doing a radio version of "Sorry Wrong Number'. A classic.

    I also thought she was chillingly great in the film, "Dark Passage", with Bogie and Baby.


    Oh yeah (none / 0) (#41)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 05:21:46 PM EST
    That too.   She was also pretty great as Kane's mother.  Also "All That Heaven Allows" I love Douglas Sirk.
    Did I mention I'm gay?

    I thought that was a given. (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 05:39:01 PM EST
    My own camp sensibility and cultural sensitivity is mostly wasted in my straight man's world, a strange and otherworldly place where someone's idea of a really great film is usually "Rambo: First Blood, Part II."



    Brady Bunch.... (none / 0) (#38)
    by kdog on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 04:53:15 PM EST
    reruns ran everyday after school as a kid...seen 'em all. Wells was the best actor on the show, hands down.

    It's a select group that have The Beasties droppin' their work...

    Like Sam the butcher bringing Alice the meat
    Like Fred Flintstone driving around with bald feet


    Orson Welles was on... (none / 0) (#102)
    by unitron on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 09:53:54 PM EST
    ...The Brady Bunch?

    When did that happen?


    Orson! Orson! Orsonnnnn! (none / 0) (#106)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 10:13:04 PM EST
    Here ya go (none / 0) (#17)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 02:41:03 PM EST
    I saw that a while ago (none / 0) (#24)
    by ZtoA on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 04:10:30 PM EST
    And it won't work. At least not in any real sense. I watched parts 1-4 of the ABC Snowden interview and one of the take aways that I got was that the technology for data collecting is far outpacing any oversight or regulation. Access is technology driven and those people and agencies that can use it will use it.

    In my sci fi nightmares drones have become tiny - like a small insect - and ubiquitous. Then not even going inside and closing doors will help.


    Believe me (none / 0) (#35)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 04:41:24 PM EST
    There are very smart people working on defeating it.

    But are they paid (none / 0) (#50)
    by sj on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 06:13:57 PM EST
    as well as the very smart people who are creating it?

    I believe you (none / 0) (#78)
    by ZtoA on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 07:46:06 PM EST
    But the insane pace of new technology is outpacing the humans it seems. There is no bad guy here. I see it as a very painful, and possibly, dangerous growth spurt in human technology.

    No doubt it's an arms race (none / 0) (#84)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 08:14:13 PM EST
    But think of it this way.   For the most part the people designing the systems are brilliant guys that to brilliant work for which they get paid well and then go home.
    The guys working to screw it up never home, they never give up, the never sleep and they don't get paid.   It's purely an act of love and passion that they literally live for.

    My money is on passion every time.


    I hope you are right (none / 0) (#87)
    by ZtoA on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 09:03:14 PM EST
    The private sector can definitely do this better. And the more domestic surveillance comes out of the shadows the better.

    Which is not to say (none / 0) (#90)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 09:12:05 PM EST
    Necessarily everyone will benefit from the hackers and anarchists but a lot of it filters down if you know where to look and at least the MAN is kept on his ties.

    Just realized my comments on this subject on this have been laughably gender biased.  But the honest truth is, it is mostly guys.


    That's not you who are biased (none / 0) (#98)
    by ZtoA on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 09:33:11 PM EST
    the whole industry is.

    I recently ordered some liquid latex for a project I'm working on. So I've been watching youtubes about how to make a balk cap and do facial prosthetics. Maybe I'll do some for myself to wear out to the grocery store and elude surveillance.


    bald cap that is (none / 0) (#100)
    by ZtoA on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 09:33:43 PM EST
    And speaking of Game of Thrones, ... (5.00 / 3) (#18)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 03:04:52 PM EST
    ... Spain's King Juan Carlos announced his abdication from the throne today in a nationally televised address to the nation, in favor of his son Crown Prince Felipe.

    Regardless of how one feels about the role of monarchies in the 21st century, Juan Carlos should be forever remembered and hailed as one of the very rare rulers who freely gave up absolute power of his own accord, and restored democracy to his country after 36 years of authoritarian rule by el Caudillo, the late Fascist dictator Gen. Francisco Franco.

    Having long held the formal title of "Prince of Spain" during the years of the Franco regime, Juan Carlos was groomed by Gen. Franco and dutifully played the part of loyal subordinate. He was formally designated Franco's heir-apparent in 1969, and succeeded el Caudillo to power as an absolute monarch upon the latter's death in November 1975, per the generalissimo's will, choosing the name Juan Carlos I.

    But very soon thereafter, to the surprise of Franco's friends and cronies, King Juan Carlos resolutely turned his back on the Falange (Fascist) Party, which desired a continuation of the autocracy imposed upon the country after Franco's March 1939 triumph in the Spanish Civil War. He began meeting with once-exiled members of the political opposition after he restored their passports, which allowed them to return to Spain, some for the first time in decades.

    Events quickly followed in rapid succession. The  king first used his power and authority to revoke the government's bans on all other political parties save for the Falange, which had been in place since the end of the civil war. Then to everyone's delight save for the political right, he announced Spain's first free and democratic elections in over four decades, with the expressed intent of establishing a constitutional monarchy.

    Those elections were held in June 1977, and Felipe Gonzalez of the Socialist Workers Party was elected as the country's first prime minister, much to the consternation of the Falangists. Gonzalez would serve as the king's prime minister for ten years, and enjoyed a very close personal and political relationship with him.

    In 1978, after its adoption by the newly reconstituted Spanish Cortes (parliament), the king formally promulgated a new constitution by which he officially proclaimed his role as constitutional monarch through his succession to the throne as the rightful heir of the royal House of Borbón, rather than as an absolute monarch by Gen. Franco's designation.

    The king's restoration of democracy in Spain and his renunciation of Franco provoked an attempted Falangist military coup on Februry 23, 1981, in which members of the Guardia Civil (Franco's notoriously loyal personal troops) seized the Cortes and arrested its members, including Prime Minister Gonzalez and his cabinet.

    Juan Carlos quickly took personal control of the situation, and in a nationally televised address that night to the country as both king and head of the armed forces, he forcefully denounced the coup and its leaders, and urged the Spanish people and members of the military to support his democratic reforms by taking to the streets to resist the Guardia Civil, which they did in huge numbers. Greatly outnumbered and with no hope of re-imposing their will upon the populace, the Guardia Civil stood down. (Juan Carlos formally disbanded them shortly thereafter.)

    The king's immediate denunciation effectively undercut coup leaders, who had insisted publicly that they were acting in his name, and they soon surrendered upon realization that they enjoyed no popular support whatsoever, even among disaffected members of the Spanish military.

    Juan Carlos won widespread praise at home and from abroad for his decisive actions -- even from Santiago Carrillo, head of Spain's Communist Party who simply told the media "God Save the King," upon his release from captivity in the Cortes following the coup's collapse.

    Not long thereafter, Juan Carlos began to withdraw from active political participation in Spanish governmental affairs, and sought to redefine his role as monarch -- and by extension, that of his successors -- as primarily ceremonial in nature, albeit one with great moral authority as guardian of the country's fragile democracy.

    In recent years, the king's popularity has slipped somewhat as his family became embroiled in a financial scandal allegedly perpetrated by his youngest daughter's husband, who's now on trial in a Madrid court for corruption and malfeasance. But with tonight's announcement, Juan Carlos is once again being praised by most everyone across the country as the man who hauled Spain out of the dark ages of Franco's rule, and led it to its rightful place as a welcome and contributing member of the European and world community.


    And in other news... (5.00 / 4) (#29)
    by unitron on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 04:29:55 PM EST
    ...Spain's Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead.

    : - )


    Then there were the (5.00 / 2) (#57)
    by sj on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 06:38:26 PM EST
    despicable "hunts". Bad enough he took these expensive jaunts when unemployment is over 20% (over 40% for youths) but hunting elephants when poaching for ivory is illegal, and don't get me started about the bear "hunt"
    ...he shot a domestic bear that had been fed honey-laced vodka to slow its reactions during a recent hunting trip in Russia....

    In a letter to governor Vyacheslav Pozgalev, the deputy head of the region's hunting grounds conservation department deplored Mitrofan's shooting in late August as "abominable".

    "The party sacrificed a good-humoured and jolly bear who had been kept at a farm in the village of Novlenskoye," Sergey Starostin wrote.

    "The bear was put into a cage and ... the party made him drunk with vodka mixed with honey and pushed him into the field. Quite naturally, the massive drunken animal became an easy target. His Majesty Juan Carlos killed Mitrofan with one shot."


    Not to mention the odious austerity programs while Spain was ravaged by unemployment. How did he use his bully pulpit then?

    He did good decades ago, post Franco, and thwarted a military coup. Of course those things took courage, but not any real work. But it made him look heroic, right? He got to be a "symbol of stability". It didn't require that much more follow-through than his elephant and bear hunts.

    A self-indulgent man with an overblown sense of entitlement: that's what I've seen pretty much in my life.


    That hunting trip (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by ZtoA on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 07:47:25 PM EST
    really spelled his doom. His reputation has been shot since.

    People can always overstay their welcome. (none / 0) (#115)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 12:10:10 AM EST
    sj: "[King Juan Carlos] did good decades ago, post Franco, and thwarted a military coup. Of course those things took courage, but not any real work. But it made him look heroic, right?"

    I'm not going to defend the indefensible, which is what that elephant hunt was. The king deserves whatever criticism he's received for that. Yes, it hurt his popularity, but that's really tangential to his overall body of accomplishment.

    And what Juan Carlos accomplished in transitioning Spain -- a country with no real history of democratic rule, save for the very short life of the Spanish Republic, which was overthrown by Franco -- from an Fascist autocracy to a democratic constitutional monarchy was certainly no small feat.

    So, please don't say that there was no real work involved. Your petulant and entirely groundless remarks only serve demean your own self, especially since it's quite obvious that you've never had to face down armed Fascists hellbent on fomenting a military coup.

    Juan Carlos had to confront an entrenched and very lethal right-wing oligarchy that was long used to unchallenged rule. The Falangists had basically installed him in power after Franco's death with every expectation that he would compliantly support the reigning status quo. Once they finally realized what he was doing, they proved resolutely hostile to his stated goal of modernizing Spain's government and re-establishing the country's relationship with the West on his own terms, and not on theirs.

    Had the Falangists not initially refused to believe the king was indeed serious about his proposed reforms, which gave Juan Carlos the time he needed to set events into motion and drive them from power without bloodshed in the 1977 elections, this could have ended very badly for both the king and the Spanish people.

    The Guardia Civil was a very powerful presence in Spanish life back then, being much stronger than the Spanish army proper, and posed a very real threat. They could have easily removed the king from the throne, and put an end to the entire reform effort. Instead, they mistakenly believed that Juan Carlos was merely playing to the crowd, and discounted the possibility that he was actually working to win the people over, until it was too late.

    As it was, Juan Carlos took a huge gamble personally in opposing the February 1981 coup that for all practical purposes was quite successful initially. There was no guarantee when he took to the television airwaves that he would be able to rouse popular support to his side and compel the Falagists to back down.

    But like the Communist plotters in the former Soviet Union who initially removed Mikael Gorbachev from power ten years later while discounting the political threat posed by Boris Yeltsin, the Falangists and Guardia Civil made a fatal assumption that the king had rendered himself non-consequential politically and would do nothing to oppose them.

    You're right. What Juan Carlos did in outmaneuvering and facing down the Falangists over the better part of six years took no small amount of courage of his part. But it also took a lot of time and effort to bring it to a successful conclusion.



    Fearing Rising Backlash, NRA Urges Stand Dowm (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 05:31:33 PM EST
    Jee-buz (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by Yman on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 06:20:48 PM EST
    When the NRA thinks you've gone too far and look "weird" carrying your assault rifle into stores and fast-food restaurants (among other things), you know you're far into the fringe weeds.

    Seriously (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 06:26:00 PM EST
    Like the GOP the NRA may find they have created a monster that will bite them on the butt.

    That (none / 0) (#59)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 06:49:45 PM EST
    is exactly what I was going to say. The NRA has created a monster with their radical leaders like Lapierre just like the GOP created a monoster with the tea party. It looks like they are going to be engulfed by monsters of their own creation.

    There was a young lady from Niger, (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 06:55:24 PM EST
    Who smiled as she rode on a tiger.
    They came back from the ride
    With the lady inside,
    And the smile on the face of the tiger.

    No attribution. Did you compose this? (none / 0) (#92)
    by oculus on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 09:17:38 PM EST
    No, I wish (none / 0) (#96)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 09:30:46 PM EST
    That like the second most famous limerick ever after "there was a young man form a Nantucket.

    A habit depraved and unsavory (none / 0) (#146)
    by jondee on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 10:42:35 AM EST
    kept the Bishop of Bingham in slavery.
    Midst screeches and howls,
    he deflowered young owls,
    which he kept in an underground aviary.

    It's one of the best known, classic (none / 0) (#97)
    by Peter G on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 09:31:28 PM EST
    limericks of all time, attributed to 19th Century poet William Cosmo Monkhouse.  And very apropos to the topic, I might add.

    My jaw dropped at the picture accompanying (none / 0) (#103)
    by vml68 on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 09:57:25 PM EST
    the article.
    If there was trouble, was this woman planning to throw her kids to the ground and start shooting?

    Reminded me of the mothers (none / 0) (#117)
    by nycstray on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 01:56:41 AM EST
    who push the stroller w/baby into the street and expect NYC traffic to stop on a dime for them and their precious baby . . .

    How is the puppy doing? (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by vml68 on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 08:54:43 AM EST
    Did you find a home for her?

    That does freak me out considering the (none / 0) (#125)
    by vml68 on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 08:51:39 AM EST
    number of pedestrians injured or killed every year in NYC.

    Here is another winner...LINK
    I am in awe at the sheer stupidity. SMH!


    Or the people... (none / 0) (#136)
    by kdog on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 10:13:44 AM EST
    in sidewalk-less 'burbs who walk on the inside towards the curb with their small kids to the outside towards traffic...so wrong, so stupid.  Kids to the inside!!!

    I can take it (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 09:07:23 PM EST
    We THRONIES wear our persecution like a badge if honor.  
    Besides we agreed today and I didn't want to screw that up


    Only two more episodes and season over (none / 0) (#108)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 10:29:32 PM EST
    It isn't as if GoT has the ability to take over the blog.

    As I see this GOT subthread was not (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by ZtoA on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 09:26:58 PM EST
    addressed to you, yet you felt free to respond with your "gentle teasing". "Sheesh". I'm sorry for the fatigue in your scroll finger.I can relate since I do so with the other shows that are discussed. I wish it was the most annoying thing in my life.

    As for squeaky, you don't understand how fun it is for me to converse with him, and others here about art. It's a rare treat to exchange info and opinions in a place where I can be anonymous. You probably don't realize it but he is truly an expert (and the captain too) in the arts. They both have such deep knowledge and insight. They both challenge me all the time. I feel free to disagree too.

    I'm suddenly feeling (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 09:33:16 PM EST
    Under qualified

    I hesitate to ask, but,.... (none / 0) (#114)
    by oculus on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 11:27:00 PM EST
    JEEBUS (5.00 / 1) (#130)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 09:35:12 AM EST
    I can't decide if this is funny or tragic or karmicly just or WHAT

    Why hurricanes with female names may be more deadly

    It now appears that gender biases apply not only to people, but also to things.
    In a first-of-its-kind study, researchers from the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign looked at 90 years of hurricane fatality data collected by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and found that powerful hurricanes with female names were more deadly than hurricanes of the same strength with male names.

    The reason, they say, is tied up with a lingering and subconscious sexism that continues to permeate our society.

    "The femininity of the name influences the degree to which people feel the storm is dangerous, and that effects how they respond to it," said Sharon Shavitt, a behavioral scientist at the university and a coauthor of the paper. "We had a hunch that there would be some gender biases, but we were quite stunned by the degree of this effect."

    Their model suggests that simply changing the name of a powerful, hypothetical hurricane from "Charlie" to "Eloise" would cause the death toll to triple, the researchers write in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

    That article makes no sense (none / 0) (#168)
    by unitron on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 12:09:27 PM EST
    Apparently an article about actual statistics (which would be skewed by the exclusive use of female names from '53 to '78) and a different article about subjective perceptions were cuisinarted together.

    Unless they're suggesting that in cases of deaths where there's some question of whether the hurricane can be blamed the authorities are prone to making the decision based on the "sex" of the hurricane.


    Interesting story ... (none / 0) (#1)
    by magster on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 01:32:45 PM EST
    on Chris "Birdman" Andersen of the Miami Heat and formerly of the Denver Nuggets when he was victim to an elaborate "catfish" scam.

    Highlights both defense lawyers and investigators/prosecutors doing their jobs to get to the bottom of a really crazy identity theft incident to save a career and reputation of NBA player.

    Crazy... (5.00 / 3) (#172)
    by kdog on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 12:26:57 PM EST
    The sad part is despite being totally exonerated, Birdman will never get his reputation back.  When it comes to crimes against children, especially sex crimes...accusations are all it takes to ruin your rep forever.

    Ask 100 NBA fans about Birdman and 99 will say "oh yeah the pedophile who plays for Miami".  It's a god damn shame.

    I dislike Facebook, Twitter, and the rest even more than I did before...and that was plenty o' dislike, believe you me.  These social media platforms make the unreal far too real in people's minds...if you catch my drift.


    Hey kdog.... (none / 0) (#208)
    by magster on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 03:59:13 PM EST
    if you're a Nuggets/NBA fan, come over to DenverStiffs.com. It's a great NBA site with an active commenter following for the Nuggets.

    I want to talk about (none / 0) (#2)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 01:44:08 PM EST
    Game of Thrones

    Great episode! (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by ZtoA on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 02:05:02 PM EST
    Perfect actually IMO. The fight scene was fabulous, but my favorites were of Sansa and Arya. Sansa in particluar transformed herself into a player and not just a pawn in the game. Could Reek and Ramsay get any creepier? Tyrion's beetle ruminations were so perfect - just like their gods.

    And what about (none / 0) (#10)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 02:08:24 PM EST
    The Mother of Dragons?  Or her handmaiden and Grey Worm?  I loved that.

    Yes Danny is great (none / 0) (#12)
    by ZtoA on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 02:18:23 PM EST
    She is so beautiful and so alluring and so great at taking her power. A true despot in the making..... or not?

    And her handmaiden and grey worm story line is great. A story about actual love, so rare on GOT.


    Grey Worm (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 02:25:37 PM EST
    Is becoming one of my favorite characters.  Pathos personified.

    He is great! (none / 0) (#27)
    by ZtoA on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 04:17:43 PM EST
    The whole pacing of the episode was fantastic, the sets the costumes the acting the directing and the writing were great. That last scene was shocking (gave me a bit of a headache) even tho I knew he was going to die.

    Some are saying he didn't finish the mountain off because of hubris, but I think he was really going for an accusation of Tywin and had a bit of adrenaline going at the moment.


    Oh. My. Gawd. (none / 0) (#20)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 03:32:30 PM EST
    I swear, you guys are like a cult.

    If the GOP had any sense, they'd purchase oodles of political advertising and slot it whenever GoT and PD air, so that a year from now, you'll be coming to these threads and yelling, "Ben-GHAAAAZZEEEeee ...!!!" and "Vincent FOSTERRRrrr ...!!!" and asking us if we know where Bill Clinton's penis is tonight.



    That would be tough with no commercials (5.00 / 3) (#30)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 04:34:41 PM EST
    It would have to be worked into the show subliminally.  
    Now that you mention it Jim has been making a lot of sense lately.

    LOL! (none / 0) (#39)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 04:53:22 PM EST

    Definitely even better than a cult :) (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by ZtoA on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 04:37:22 PM EST
    GOT is HBO and so no ads which is great. GOP would have to do product placement to advertise with HBO. Now that would be interesting. But with so much political intrigue and violence I doubt that Benghazi would be very exciting. I think if they go ahead with product placement they should insert their advertising in the Reek/Ramsay story line.

    You want cult? (none / 0) (#204)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 03:01:15 PM EST

    The Dothraki book and CD package features a pronunciation guide, basic phrases, a detailed guide to grammar, 200 vocabulary words organized in eleven thematic lists, a dialogue, culture notes, and 50 written exercise questions to test your Dothraki. The accompanying one-hour audio CD features pronunciation, phrases, key grammar examples, vocabulary, and a dialogue.



    Lucky 4 u there is only 2 more (5.00 / 3) (#33)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 04:38:31 PM EST
    episodes this season.  After that we will be limited to the occasional scheduling announcement or plot leak.   Well, until
    SEASONS 5 & 6 hahahahahaha

    Me too! Oh Oberyn, you cocky idiot (5.00 / 2) (#64)
    by ruffian on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 07:04:58 PM EST
    I guess they do not have horror movies where he is from - the monster is never really dead when your think he's dead. That was definitely the most exciting fight I can remember on the tube. I was really yelling out loud.

    I loved Tyrion's monologue about trying to decipher the motives of a moron. It was so sad, and showed the roots of his character. How is he going to get out of this now? I hope Stannis's fleet is in the harbor. Again.

    Castle Black - yawn. glad they dispensed with it at the beginning.

    Arya - it sure was good to see her smile, even if it was hysterical ironic laughter. That is my favorite kind.


    FromAV Club (none / 0) (#68)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 07:16:32 PM EST
    I'm guessing that the last minute twist will be seen by some as evidence of Game Of Thrones increasingly toying with the viewers' emotions--with Maisie Williams cackling at her character's misfortune presented as exhibit B. But there's another way to look at it: the show laying the groundwork for monumental, irreversible change.
    Tyrion's tale of rocks, bugs, and the unwitting forces that bring them together would be the biggest moment--not that anything else in "The Mountain And The Viper" steals its resonance. If anything, the trial by combat underlines the monologue's importance: This is Tyrion speaking of his own existence, as an insect that fate knows only to smash. The metaphorical hand bears the name Lannister for obvious reasons, but this is more than a parable about Tyrion and Tywin. It's about all of these characters, so many of them seemingly introduced for the sole purpose of suffering. The hand goes by many names (Ramsay Bolton, Joffrey, the maesters), its beetles spread across the Seven Kingdoms and beyond. In the end, Tyrion's only crime may have been that he was more invested in decoding these cruelties and less invested in putting a stop to them. "Certainly I had the wherewithal to unravel the mysteries that lay at the heart of a moron," he tells Jaime, slyly nodding toward whichever lunkheaded gods make the people of Westeros fear the giant rock.

    Have you seen previously TV?.


    I did see previously .tv. (none / 0) (#82)
    by ruffian on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 07:57:48 PM EST
    I love the title  ' we give this episode two thumbs in - way  in'.

    The beetle story was one of the shows few attempts to find some deeper meaning, something Tyrion would do  when facing death.  I liked it a lot for that reason.


    Yes, right (none / 0) (#128)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 09:07:11 AM EST
    IN not up.  Wayyyyy in.

    I thought about you today (none / 0) (#109)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 11:03:36 PM EST
    I was sitting in a waiting room reading a letter from the editor in Real Simple.  She started out writing about how some of just want the house cleaner, and how if you wanted you could spend every hour in the day making things less dusty, more sparkly, more stain free.  She wrote about the frustration of being determined to have a life but also wanting a spotless home.  Then suddenly she throws Downton Abbey into the swirling feelings.

    She says Downton Abbey is Domestic Porn.  I thought about it for a second, and it is delicious how everything is in its place, silver polished, gourmet meals show up along with kitchen romance, rapings, and killings.  The place is always polished and glowing and delicious.  I guess it is Domestic Porn.

    Then she talked about how those of us addicted and dreaming of the neat and tidy and perfect feel when the feather duster touches the chandelier in the opening credits, and I giggled out loud.


    Funny I never really thought of it that (5.00 / 1) (#120)
    by ruffian on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 06:11:04 AM EST
    way, even though I do so love to clean as a stress buster. I was so mad after work yesterday I vacuumed. It felt great!

    Downton  is also  antique furniture p**n. I think I like that just as much. I really want to touch those tables and books they are dusting!


    Doing laundry (5.00 / 1) (#163)
    by NYShooter on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 11:27:22 AM EST
    does it for me.

    All those t-shirts, so nice, folded, and stacked.


    Next weeks episode (none / 0) (#148)
    by Slado on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 10:45:43 AM EST
    will be all Castle Black and will not dissapoint.

    Remember episode 9 is typically the big one in GoT.

    I am anticipating two huge deaths and other stuff but for those who read the books I will not tease anymore.

    Agreed with all other comments.   I knew what was going to happen in that fight scene and it was still surprising and awesome.

    In fact I went back last night and re read that chapter and it was just as riviting.

    Excellent work by the show bringing that thrilling sequence to life.

    I love the show.  

    If you have any interest I highly suggest reading the books.

    Well worth it.


    I think reading is going (none / 0) (#160)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 11:18:08 AM EST
    To be the way I deal with jonesing for the show.  I have the books but have been reluctant to read until the series caught up.   It aparrently has.

    We are at the end of the third book (none / 0) (#182)
    by Slado on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 01:03:36 PM EST
    Still 2 more books to go.

    the fourth is a little slow with tons of new characters (as if we need more) but still good.

    Book 5 is awesome.


    This is a cautionary tale: (5.00 / 1) (#149)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 10:47:06 AM EST
    Honey, (none / 0) (#3)
    by sj on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 01:49:39 PM EST
    you need to find you a GOT board. Here's one that comes with a recap and lots of comments :)

    btw just got the Outland e-book (none / 0) (#4)
    by sj on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 01:51:52 PM EST
    to refresh memory. Will wait till last minute to get Starz.

    Is that from the Outlander books? (none / 0) (#80)
    by ZtoA on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 07:49:56 PM EST
    Yes, typo (none / 0) (#166)
    by sj on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 12:00:19 PM EST
    Outland = Outlander

    Ha (none / 0) (#5)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 01:56:33 PM EST
    I thought this was a GOT board.  I was trying to link to previously TV,  where the headline was -- We Give This Episode Two Thumbs Up.  WAY Up

    But the site seems hosed right now.

    Also Penny Dreadful was AWSUM.  I won't spoil it but wait  for the last 60 seconds.


    Okay okay (none / 0) (#107)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 10:15:15 PM EST
    I'll watch it tonight.

    Never saw that possibility (none / 0) (#116)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 12:34:17 AM EST
    I saw the first 3 GoT episodes.... (none / 0) (#6)
    by magster on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 01:59:04 PM EST
    and lost interest. Is there a "OK, this show is bleeping awesome!" episode that got you forever hooked. If I give GoT another go, how patient do I need to be? Should I read the books to care about the show?

    You don't need to read the books (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by ruffian on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 07:25:21 PM EST
    at least I have not. I think if the story is not compelling to you, then don't force it.  I didn't watch at all until a few months ago decided to give it a try. I think I liked the dialog, the Tyrion character, and the Stark - Lannister rivalry enough to want to see what happened next.  There are aspects of the story I don't pay that much attention to - the more supernatural stuff bores me (except the dragons - they are real!).  But I love the political machinations.

    Honestly (none / 0) (#74)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 07:32:19 PM EST
    I thinks it takes a sustained interest.  Which for me happened binging on the marathon.  It's SUCH a complex story with such an absurdly huge cast of characters.  I can see why it would be baffling and boreing if you came in in the middle.
    I was just trying to explain on FB why Grey Worm is such an interesting character.  Try it.  It takes a lot of characters.

    Next sick/flu day... (5.00 / 2) (#77)
    by magster on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 07:43:55 PM EST
    I'll try to do a first season binge and see how that goes.

    It's hard to say (none / 0) (#8)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 02:03:33 PM EST
    I was the same for the first three years.  I watch a lot of TV (duh) but for some reason catching an episode here and there never did it for me either. I was permanently hooked during the marathon of the series that they did in the run up to this, the 4th season.
    Not sure why.  To much tine on my hands, nothing else on?

    No matter the blog... (none / 0) (#11)
    by magster on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 02:08:42 PM EST
    this one, Daily Kos, my Broncos or Nuggets blog, ... it's GoT in the comments. It seems like it's approaching Breaking Bad levels of devotion.

    We dropped the premium cable channels ... (none / 0) (#37)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 04:51:23 PM EST
    ... years ago, so I was never able to see "Game of Thrones." But I might consider watching it on DVD, given all the hoopla about it that's going on around here.

    It took a lot for me to get into "Breaking Bad," because I generally shy away from movies and shows about illegal drugs and illicit drug use. (Watching people do hardcore drugs -- whether live or onscreen -- simply makes me cringe.) But everybody here kept praising "Bad," so I finally felt compelled to tune in and see what it was that I was missing. And in retrospect, I was really glad I did.



    It does start slowly (none / 0) (#150)
    by Slado on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 10:51:58 AM EST
    The first season doesn't have it's Oh Wow moement till episode 9.

    From there it is a thrill ride.

    The sencond season is much better and IMHO they'e each gotten better with this one being the best.

    It helps alot to have read teh books becasue frankly it's one more chance to know what's going on because like all books it's more in depth and helps you rememnber all the goings on in the back ground and give you more insight into the characters and helps you remember that 20 sub plots happening simultaneously.

    I watched the first three seasons without reading the books and loved it.    Then because I couldn't wait a year I read the books in about 4 months and now I actually enjoy the series even more.

    It's just different enough to keep it interesting but the basic plot lines are the same.  

    Anyway I'd compare it to King's the Dark Tower Series or Lord of the Rings.

    It's another world and when you dive into it whole heatedly you start to notice everything and all the details of the books and series.   The combination of the two is great because you see it in your mind while you read it and you fill in the background with the words while you watch it.

    Good stuff.


    Yes (none / 0) (#177)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 12:45:20 PM EST
    I was going to say that about the Dark Tower.  It's like Game of Thrones meets The Good The Bad And The Ugly.   King has said that Sergio Leones vision of the west very much influenced the story.  

    How so you feel about the Ron Howard movie?
    Personally thrilled wih that choice but trying to keep an en mind.

    The Dark Tower book series is considered Stephen King's fantasy magnum opus, so it's no wonder that a film adaptation has been on the table for years now. Problem is, Oscar-winner Ron Howard (long attached to direct and/or produce the project) hasn't been content to adapt King's literature into either a Game of Thrones-style epic TV series or a big-budget movie trilogy; he and writer/producer Akiva Goldsman (Winter's Tale) have wanted to make both, which explains why both Universal and Warner Bros. have balked at the proposed multi-platform endeavor in the past.

    Despite issues getting the necessary funding for the proposed Dark Tower cross-platform venture, Howard and producer Brian Grazer have always maintained that the project was never been dead in the water - just (much) slower than expected to make its way down the pipeline into production. In the meantime, it would appear that the filmmakers have been meeting with potential cast members, including one rising star who threw his hat in the ring a while back.

    AICN caught up Aaron Paul at the 2014 Sundance Film Festival --- "Quint" eventually turned his conversation with Paul to Dark Tower, in part because the actor has previously revealed on Twitter - back in Fall 2012 - that he'd like to play the character Eddie Dean in the movie/TV adaptation.

    Well, fans aren't the only ones who like the idea, according to Paul:


    For those who don't know Dark Tower is MASSIVE.  I love the cross platform idea.  It might actually make it work.


    Oops (none / 0) (#178)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 12:46:20 PM EST
    Personally NOT thrilled with Ronnie.   Big difference in meaning there

    It's interesting (none / 0) (#183)
    by Slado on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 01:08:05 PM EST
    I'm a huge Stephen King fan and have read probably 75% of his books but have stayed away from the Dark Tower series on purpose.

    I am hesitant to dive in because I know it will consume me.

    Recently I read the JFK time travel book, "Under the Dome" and "Doctor Sleep".   I always seem to do this with SK.  If I read one book I get into his style and have to read a couple more to satisfy the urge to read him.

    I have been tempted to get into the Dark Tower but it is such a commitment because i won't just start it, I'll have to finish it.

    Should I dive in?


    Absolutely yes (none / 0) (#186)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 01:23:36 PM EST
    It is, words fail me.  As you know it's HUGE.  And it just gets better and better and better.  It really ties nearly all his other work together.  If you google you can find a chart that tracks all the references and background to his other books in TDT.
    The other thing is that it literally spans his career.  He started The Gunslinger around the time of Carrie and the final book includes the collapse of the World Trade Center and involves him as an actual character linked to his near fatal accident when he was hit by a truck.

    Absolutely yes.  And the ending, which he swears he never knew till he wrote it is perfect.  The whole time you are wondering how the HELL is he going to end this. And then, of course! It was the only ending possible.


    You've convinced me (5.00 / 1) (#207)
    by Slado on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 03:28:17 PM EST
    Here ya go (none / 0) (#198)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 02:27:12 PM EST
    I was afraid of that... (none / 0) (#23)
    by Anne on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 03:49:55 PM EST
    if you could just get Jeralyn hooked, she might give you all a separate forum.  Is there a Spanish language version?

    At this stage, though, even I'd read GOT sub-threads if it meant I didn't have to read one more comment from squeaky about you-know-what.



    No, I don't know what (5.00 / 2) (#25)
    by ZtoA on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 04:13:15 PM EST
    What do you mean? Do you mean something because this just sounds like an unprovoked attack.

    Also, I invite you not to read the GOT open thread comments.


    Alas, no drug cartels in Westeros (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by ruffian on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 07:13:35 PM EST
    Which makes me think about how nice it is to have one show where drug use is not a sub-plot in someone's downfall. So many more interesting ways to fall.

    Well (none / 0) (#69)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 07:18:44 PM EST
    There's Joffery

    If they do a version of 'The Bachelor' in Westeros (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by ruffian on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 09:20:12 PM EST
    I will definitely watch. The rose ceremonies would be very dangerous. Known as The Red Rose Ceremony. And the family visits are a real mine  field - maybe even literally if you dare select that handsome Jaime Lannister.

    Great episode (none / 0) (#105)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 10:11:17 PM EST
    Sansa looked ""killer" in her Aunts dress.  Seeing scenes played out with Arya and The Hound puts that relationship in a new perspective, a gradual innocence lost.   Who would Arya have become if she didn't end up with The Hound for a tutor?  It is a question I never asked myself until actors stepped into those characters. Almost makes me feel sad though in a mothering kind of way....get away from that child!

    What a spectacular fight.  Not anything I could have ever put together in my head.

    A vote of no confidence at Castle Black.  We all expected better from Jon Snow and anyone blessed with his presence.  Once again, it took getting to see him in the flesh before I could become this disappointed :)


    Maybe because I'm not a parent (none / 0) (#127)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 08:57:57 AM EST
    But naaaa.  Since I know you know her fate, would you deny her hearts desire? Her entire family was slaughtered the need for revenge has almost literally kept her alive.  Would you deny her that?   Not me.  I think her story in a tragic way makes her one of the most fulfilled in this story so far.  Avoiding spoilers, she gets her hearts desire.  Does it come with a cost?  Doesn't everything?  Isn't that the message?  Not only be careful what you wish for but know it won't be free?
    I CANT WAIT to see that part of the story.  

    I agree thr fight was amazing.  

    I absolutely love the Missandei/Grey Worm story.  Who in Westeros more deserves to find a little peace?  No idea what happens to them.  It will probably be tragic but for the love of the gods give them their moment.

    About Penny Dreadful, who saw that coming?  Not me?  Can you imagine me in my livingroom standing up to cheer?  YES


    We won the culture war! (5.00 / 1) (#134)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 10:00:47 AM EST
    Josh and I ate at "The Landing Zone" (none / 0) (#138)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 10:19:24 AM EST
    Yesterday because I had some things to do on post.  It used to be the officers club, but now it is open to everyone.

    I remember the hoopla about lifting DADT and I knew that the real people who held no great rank didn't really care.  Since the lifting though, boy the military likes it some gay waiters.  You have all these guys in uniform getting food and beverages from individuals who have studied such things, and that's what they want.  They do not care about gender or bedroom preferences, this is a dining facility.

    The facility is responsible for a lot of parties too and I notice that soldiers don't care who possesses the skills, they just need the skills.  If there could be a thought bubble over the soldiers head as he asks which wine would go with the food better it would read "Because I will only care about such things once a year at best, so don't give a shite to understand this goobly gook.  You choose....make me look good".


    Tell us it isn't. No more officers' club? (none / 0) (#139)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 10:26:17 AM EST
    Or did the officers' club just move to a different location?

    We frown on officers knocking off (none / 0) (#142)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 10:33:09 AM EST
    Early and then all getting plowed together in private, using each other to reinforce everything that is broken about them.

    That video of the judge taking the lawyer outside to pound on him, that's the kind of leaders "O" clubs created :)


    What became of the wine fountains? (none / 0) (#143)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 10:37:14 AM EST
    I think you can still get them for (none / 0) (#144)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 10:40:27 AM EST
    Weddings, and promotion and retirement parties.  They are plastic though, I don't know what happened to the stone ones they confiscated from Roman ruins.

    But are they still up and running at (none / 0) (#147)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 10:45:35 AM EST
    the former O Club?

    That's where the plastic ones are (none / 0) (#154)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 11:08:27 AM EST
    The O club has been completely confiscated and not replaced.  And they built a splash park outside of it for the kids.

    There is no safe place for them to get (none / 0) (#155)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 11:10:13 AM EST
    Drunk together anymore

    They really shouldn't have wine fountains (none / 0) (#157)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 11:15:25 AM EST
    At Fort Rucker AL.  If you have a glass of wine outdoors in the summer you have to have a hand ready to cover the mouth quickly.  Those little no-see-em flies would be belly up even in an indoor fountain in a few hours.....bleh!

    That is why I can't believe the Golden Corral nasty place still did food fountains here.  It's so gross


    That's hilarious (none / 0) (#140)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 10:30:09 AM EST
    You didn't answer my question (none / 0) (#34)
    by ZtoA on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 04:39:38 PM EST
    I sill invite you to skip the GOT comments in the open threads. Or complain to J and ask that she ban the subject.

    You still have not answered my question about what you meant in your comment.

    It's getting kinda hard to "skip" them (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by nycstray on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 06:25:14 PM EST
    They take over the open threads quite often these days.

    Your invitation (none / 0) (#48)
    by sj on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 06:09:14 PM EST
    was superflous. Evidence found here:
    ...At this stage, though, even I'd read GOT sub-threads...
    That clearly indicates that once the parent thread mentions GOT she skips the subthreads.

    Just so you know.

    I also skip the GOT subthreads. The discussion bothers me not a bit. The way they use up so many of the 200 allotted comments can be bothersome however, as sometimes it is days between open threads.

    As to your demands about what she "meant" by her comment, I think you're reading more into it than need be.


    Possibly sj (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by ZtoA on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 07:51:28 PM EST
    And the GOT season will soon be over. Then we'll get on to some other show that I don't watch.

    Lately there have been plenty of opens (none / 0) (#53)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 06:23:33 PM EST
    There is still space on one from days ago on the front page that I, but no one else, have been using.  I don't understand fretting about filling up threads.   There is always another thread.

    Yeah, I think it has been proven many times over (5.00 / 2) (#70)
    by ruffian on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 07:19:55 PM EST
    that there are a lot more annoying and pointless ways to fill up a thread. I am not going to fret about it either.

    Not so much (none / 0) (#62)
    by sj on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 06:56:59 PM EST
    There is always another thread.
    Or rather I would say it's very inconsistent depending on J's schedule. There really have been times -- and recently -- when it was days between one Open Thread that was closed for comments/responses, and the next one being created.

    I'm not trying to pick a fight here, CH, or point fingers. Not at you and not at J. I made an observation that sometimes it can be bothersome. That's all. If there is another thread available it isn't bothersome. If there isn't, then it is.

    "If there isn't, then it is." Seriously, how bad a sentence was that?


    I did not think you were (none / 0) (#63)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 07:02:03 PM EST
    I'm not going to (none / 0) (#65)
    by sj on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 07:09:44 PM EST
    go looking for a thread that got filled up with no replacement for days. It has happened. Period. Just as your example represents another possibility: a thread that was unfilled for more than a week.

    Not all opinions are complaints. Although this particular one is starting to be. I'm complaining -- nope, I'm whining -- that this conversation twixt you and I has gotten more overblown than the topic deserves.



    I love you DJ (none / 0) (#71)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 07:23:46 PM EST
    I'm not arguing with you and I know YOU are not complaining

    SJ DJ JJ (5.00 / 2) (#72)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 07:25:10 PM EST
    you know who you are

    I would like to complain about (5.00 / 4) (#75)
    by ZtoA on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 07:34:42 PM EST
    half the open threads filled up with people complaining about GOT comments.  :)

    Anyone (none / 0) (#52)
    by lentinel on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 06:22:53 PM EST
    not actually having seen or heard this may not believe it, but when the Columbia space shuttle blew up, and that azzhat GW Bush donned his mantle as defacto priest and national consoler, he said that the doomed astronauts had, and this is a quote, "come home". I actually saw and heard him say it.

    Yes. They didn't have their precious lives snuffed out due to the incompetence of some folks at NASA putting on a defective heat shield.
    They "came home". And he had his pathetic finger on the button that he might think sends us all to a nice cozy home where Mrs. God bakes us cakes and tell us stories. How we survived that maniac is a true miracle. Thank you Lord.

    No. You moron, I wanted to scream. They fking didn't come home, you idiot. That's why you're there today, Mr. President, beating your gums.

    But he was referring to whatever strange religious dialect he churns up when it suits him. The "rapture". When everyone "comes home".

    And now, today, the NYTimes has a piece about the precursor to Columbia - the Challenger disaster. That one caused by defective O rings that were not designed to function at the temperature to which they were subjected during the beginning part of the flight.

    They have a quote that fronts their report: Get ready folks.
    "On Jan. 28, 1986, seven astronauts slipped the surly bonds of earth to touch the face of God."

    They also didn't leave the earth and blow up due to the incompetence of the NASA folks.
    No. They didn't. They touched the face of God. They really really did. They touched it. The Times said so, and like W., they should know about touching God's face.

    Maybe God doesn't want her face touched. Did they ever think about that?

    Seriously. This religious stuff is dangerous. I'm not talking about any individual's right to believe in whatever they want, or worship whomever or whatever they want. I'm referring to the use of religious claptrappery on the part of government officials or powerful media outlets to mask reality and excuse malfeasance and greed.

    You do know that line... (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by unitron on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 09:45:27 PM EST
    ...is from a once well-known poem written by an aviator during WWII, right, and that it gets used a lot when memorializing air crews?

    Well, (none / 0) (#118)
    by lentinel on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 03:29:39 AM EST
    whoever that aviator might have been, he or she certainly had in fact come home to the earthly one - not the home in the great beyond. Unless you're saying it was written in the home of the beyond and sent to us by angel or carrier pigeon.

    Nevertheless, when Bush said it, is felt mega-creepy.

    I wonder if any aviator crews have a say in the way they are to be memorialized. Gone home would not be a great choice, imo.


    If you're (none / 0) (#119)
    by lentinel on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 03:58:48 AM EST
    referring to the touching the "face of God", quote...
    Anybody can pen whatever homily they wish.

    I didn't think it was appropriate as a heading, referencing God, in the NYTimes for an article that pretty well outlined the bureaucratic mess and callous disregard for human life by NASA and Morton Thiokol, the company responsible for the O rings that doomed the crew of the Challenger.


    And you (none / 0) (#121)
    by lentinel on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 06:57:43 AM EST
    do know perhaps that NASA knew the tile had blown off and that there was damage - and that they told the crew that everything was fine for re-entry.

    Touching the face of God? Don't think so.

    Pure horror is more like it.

    Even the quote is fked up, imo, in that it assumes that God has a face and circulates somewhere among the clouds.

    What about a similar accident in a submarine?
    Any face touching there?


    Regan made that quote (none / 0) (#123)
    by jbindc on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 07:10:33 AM EST
    The same evening on a televised presidential address right before his State of the Union - the same day as the tragedy.  Since nothing was know as to the cause of the tragedy, it would have been premature to make conclusions.

    Besides, since it had just happened, the country needed comfort - not blame.


    Here's the poem from which it came:

    High Flight

     "Oh! I have slipped the surly bonds of Earth
     And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings;
     Sunward I've climbed, and joined the tumbling  mirth
     of sun-split clouds, -- and done a hundred things
     You have not dreamed of -- wheeled and soared and swung
     High in the sunlit silence. Hov'ring there,
     I've chased the shouting wind along, and flung
     My eager craft through footless halls of air....

    Up, up the long, delirious, burning blue
     I've topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace.
     Where never lark, or even eagle flew --
     And, while with silent, lifting mind I've trod
     The high untrespassed sanctity of space,
     - Put out my hand, and touched the face of God."

    I totally disagree. (none / 0) (#132)
    by lentinel on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 09:47:27 AM EST
    What comfort does it give the country to tell us that people who were needlessly killed got to touch God's face?

    What would have given some comfort would have been the direct and forceful assurance that the government would not rest until the people responsible for this nightmare were found and prosecuted.

    Your assertion that it was "premature to make conclusions" is wrong on its face. The O rings were known to be defective. They knew before launch that they could not function in such cold temperatures. And they let the bloody thing launch anyway.

    The "God" business is pure hokum designed to pacify the people of this country.

    Righteous anger is what was called for.
    Not pseudo religious pablum.

    In any case, it was a totally inappropriate quote to head an article in the New York Times that detailed the malfeasance that caused this disaster and the lives of the crew.

    Lastly, the poem is by someone who is expressing the joy of being in flight and how moved the author of the poem felt. It was not a poem about people who had lost their lives in a disastrous explosion. The author claims to have felt God's presence while as a living being in flight, not one who was heading towards Earth in a death spiral.

    Pure crap from Reagan.
    Pure crap from Bush.
    Pure crap from the NYTimes.


    Just because God is ever mentioned (3.67 / 3) (#137)
    by jbindc on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 10:14:04 AM EST
    by someone in a powerful position does not mean that it's combining state and religion. No, it would not have been appropriate at the times they were given for Reagan to talk about O-rings, nor Bush to talk about mechanics.  How cruel of you to try and take words meant to convey comfort and make it into something else entirely.  Not everything is political.

    IMO, it's come to the point that irreligious people in this country are becoming as hateful and intolerant as those they condemn.

    Oh, and by the way - the author of that poem was killed in flight during war and that poem is on his gravestone.


    Well (5.00 / 1) (#145)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 10:40:36 AM EST

    IMO, it's come to the point that irreligious people in this country are becoming as hateful and intolerant as those they condemn.

    What you are seeing is a push back to creeping theocracy and you can expect more of the same.  But as far as equivalencies mostly we are just saying we wish they would be religious and shut up about it and stop trying to destroy the educational system by turning into bible school.  We are not self righteously proclaiming they will burn in hell because they disagree.
    Not exactly apples to apples


    A very thoughtful comment, jbindc (none / 0) (#202)
    by christinep on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 02:46:29 PM EST
    As for eulogies and thoughts upon death, I believe that most people need and hold dear words of comfort, solace, and human sentiments of hope.  For me, as a believer in God and the promise of hope, meaningful and loving expressions from other mourners, friends soothes the pain (and sometimes sudden horror) of great loss.  At the gravesite time of loss ... at the funeral or memorial service ... our love for each other, often imparted in spiritual murmurings and hopes, may be all we can give ... at that time, it often is all that can be received.

    To those who seem so angry with those who believe or wish to believe or simply want to comfort, little can be said other than a genuine request to respect those with whom you disagree just as you would want to be respected.  Love and tolerance ... it helps, all the way around.

    (Be back in a few minutes ... need to send our just-signed sympathy card to a neighbor whose dear brother died over the weekend.  She is a doctor; he was afflicted over a lifetime; they both lived as observant Jews.)


    Equivalents (none / 0) (#159)
    by squeaky on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 11:17:24 AM EST
    Angry god who wreaks vengeance on sinners, and the heathen.

    Angry Americans who relishes severe punishment for those who do wrong.

    Between the two poles it is not surprising that we are prison nation.


    And the real irony is (none / 0) (#161)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 11:21:58 AM EST
    They do it in the name of Jesus who, from what I know if he existed, would probably not sit next to them on a bus.

    That might be true (5.00 / 1) (#179)
    by jbindc on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 12:47:15 PM EST
    In a slim minority of cases.  But since most people on the planet believe in some sort of god, and a vast majorit of them don't have ill-will or hate towards the irreligious, all that "pushback", as you call it (or rather, close-minded elitist hatred, in some cases), really doesn't help your cause.  It just makes you [in the general sense, not you in particular], look just like what those haters think of you in the first place.

    And if a president chooses words that mention God in the immediate aftermath of a tragedy, in an attempt to console, is it really that big of a deal that all these years later someone is going to get incensed about it?  


    If the president wants to find solace and (5.00 / 2) (#199)
    by Anne on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 02:29:33 PM EST
    comfort in God, he's more than welcome to do so, in the privacy of his home, his mind or his religious institution of choice.

    The president quoting scripture or invoking religious imagery, while well-intended, is presumptuous, imposing his ideas of comfort on a nation comprising people of all faiths, and some of no faith.

    Does he think that if he doesn't say these things that millions of people won't take it upon themselves to offer up their own prayers, or attend a special service or seek comfort from their religious leaders?

    I don't mind a president overcome by emotion, or clearly affected by tragedy.  I don't even mind him sharing that he's sad or angry or upset.  

    But if he feels the need to invoke God, he should do so on his own, and allow the nation he governs to do the same.


    Yes well THAT might be true (none / 0) (#180)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 12:54:44 PM EST
    But the undeniable fact is the loonies are driving the bus.  And the agenda. And we, I shouldn't speak for any one else, I don't care how I appear.
    We are done being cowed by the charge that standing up to the fanatics is somehow "insulting" the rest of you.

    If you don't like it try standing up to the yourselves.   I don't see much of that.


    Well Capt (5.00 / 1) (#188)
    by Slado on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 01:25:56 PM EST
    As a practicing Catholic I can tell you there is always internal strife and confrontation within the religious community.

    Believers love nothing more then getting on other believers to show that they believe more or better then the other guy.   I would suggest in fact that believers are more hostile to their fellow believers then they ever are to non believers.    

    Catholics have long felt this sting in America (which is ironic since Christianity was started by Catholics) from their fellow Christians.

    Anyway the thing to remember is religion is different then belief in a higher power.  

    Religion is for people.   Ultimately if you choose to believe it is a personal choice between you and the man upstairs.  

    I don't for a second believe that the rules and laws of men have any real bearing on this individual relationship.    

    I choose to practice Catholicism (I'm a convert by the way) because it helps me deal with the trials of life, helps me an my wife provide a moral base for our children and because quite simply when the priest give that rare perfect sermon it recharges me and gives me hope.   Also the true message of Catholicism to serve your fellow man as Jesus did is very appealing to me.

    All of the ills from religion are really the fault of man and man doesn't need religion or faith as an excuse to abuse his fellow man.  

    To me it is not because of religion that people do bad things it is simply the reality that most people claim to be religious and might not be good people anyway.

    I think non believers focus too much on the so called beliefs of the religious instead of their individual faults and actions.    Just like we can't judge a race of people on stereotypes we shouldn't judge religious people on the faults of a few zealots.

    Also like my new favorite Pope says I don't judge non believers because what do I know?   Faith is personal and I don't for a second believe in a vengeful God.   We might all be going to heaven or the great beyond, it's not my place to judge.

    We'll find out soon enough.


    I have (5.00 / 1) (#195)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 02:22:29 PM EST
    never understood the Catholic hatred that comes from some quarters mostly Southern Baptists in my area but then I'm ECUSA so they don't seem "weird" to me. We just don't want a pope. My mother who is an ex-Baptist used to talk about how Catholics were a cult. I think some of the Baptist churches may still be teaching that. I know the more fundamentalist ones still do. I think a lot of them do not know their church history either. If you ask a Baptist where they came from they give you a blank stare. I told one that her church came from Catholicism as they all did and she was apalled.

    The crux of the problem is that all the mainline churches are getting either ignored or drowned out by these radicals and the radicals are the ones running for congress, at least in my area, so they are getting an even bigger microphone. Most of the Republicans running here reject science and believe that the bible should be used as a science document. No wonder Georgia scores low in testing.

    That being said I have to say that your pope is getting a lot of people to listen to him who would have NEVER listened to the last two popes. So there's hope there.

    What I have seen from the fundamentalist sorts is that they work backwards. They decide that they want to do something and then find a bible verse to justify what they are doing.


    Yep (none / 0) (#196)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 02:26:02 PM EST
    What GA said.

    Honestly Catholics are the least of (none / 0) (#191)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 01:44:23 PM EST
    What I was talking about.  Granting disagreements on things like choice and gay rights IMO they are NOT the problem.  They are never the ones trying to stop evolution from being taught  etc etc.  the people my comment was directed at are, well, my family.  Who would literally turn public school into bible school.
    And I agree with you about the internal religious hostility.  Heck they would hate you almost as much as me.  
    And in fact I do know progressive religious people.  Lots of them.  They quietly practice their faith and don't make trouble for anyone. Even the fanatics which is what I have a problem with.  While I know it happens I don't see nearly enough people defending public schools in the name of their faith.  Or calling out the extremism of the religious right in the name of their faith.  And it needs to be done.  No one will listen to us.  They to your church, or the Lutherans or the other progressives propel of faith.

    IMO your faith is be co-opted by fanatics with a mostly political agenda.


    It is (none / 0) (#187)
    by lentinel on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 01:23:58 PM EST
    one big crock.

    It's not enough for those pols to wrap themselves in the flag.

    They have to wrap themselves in holiness.

    I am a believer in the separation of Church and State.
    So was, from what I have read, Jesus.

    I am not seeking vengeance.
    I am seeking justice. And I am interested having those responsible for the deliberate placing in danger of innocent and brave people to be removed from their jobs so that they are not in a position to kill anyone else. And, since I also believe what they did is criminal, I would not at all mind if they were incarcerated.

    Reagan and Bush et al are just protecting bureaucracies while posing as members of the clergy.

    If that is comforting to you, so be it.


    Amen to that (none / 0) (#56)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 06:27:52 PM EST
    The Challenger crash (none / 0) (#60)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 06:49:48 PM EST
    Is one of those things where I know just where I was and what I was doing when it happened.  What I was doing was putting the finishing touches on a the graphics of a huge shuttle themed marketing campaign that I had been working on for almost a year.  One of my first independent CG animation projects.  It was set to launch the day after the actual launch.  For obvious reasons it never launched.

    Ha I remember (none / 0) (#89)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 09:11:47 PM EST
    too. I was at work and my boss started playing some strange music in his office.

    I do remember feeling the same way at (none / 0) (#124)
    by ruffian on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 08:26:10 AM EST
    Bush's platitudes at the time. In pretty much your same words. I'll put it this way - the people that would look to him for comfort probably heard what they came for. The rest of us - irritated the hell out of us.

    Not your average day in court (none / 0) (#85)
    by CoralGables on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 08:53:30 PM EST
    Mr. Trettis is a pathetic (none / 0) (#91)
    by oculus on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 09:16:24 PM EST
    suck up.

    Not much professionalism (none / 0) (#94)
    by CoralGables on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 09:21:20 PM EST
    from either of the two main characters to go along with the classic suck up.

    So...when do you think we can expect (none / 0) (#158)
    by Anne on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 11:15:34 AM EST
    Obama to release the rest of the detainees who've been otherwise cleared for release?

    His decision to release the five detainees held at Guantanamo - without giving Congress the legally-mandated 30-day notice - would seem to open the door to additional releases, wouldn't it?

    From Jason Leopold at al Jazeera, speaking to a Human Rights First attorney (via Glenn):

    if the administration can make the argument that the five Taliban detainees are transferrable "without any significant problems under the congressionally imposed transfer restrictions" then certainly "the same argument can be made for the detainees who have already been cleared for release."

    Yes, I'm reading Glenn this morning.  He - and others now asking the same questions - has a point.

    If the Obama administration's position is that Congress cannot constrain the president from releasing the detainees, shouldn't a president who has repeatedly said he wanted to close Guantanamo be issuing orders to do just that?

    Or is this when we find out that all that huffing and puffing about Congress tying his hands and preventing him from closing the camp was just that: huffing and puffing?

    Is he constrained or isn't he?    

    I think after the midterms (none / 0) (#162)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 11:22:56 AM EST
    Well (none / 0) (#164)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 11:45:20 AM EST
    actually I read that the NDA gave him the authority to realease prisoners and just let congress know after he did it. I'm guessing this law supercedes the law that Inhofe is screaming about.

    Apparently, the basis for (5.00 / 2) (#206)
    by christinep on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 03:18:25 PM EST
    dispensing with the 30-day official notice provision is grounded in the determination that the soldier's deteriorating health (via Sec of Defense, et al observations of so-called "proof of life" video) and other factors about his safety necessitated exercising emergency exemption and acting quickly.  

    At an even in a north Denver suburb last night that I was fortunate to attend, Hillary Clinton briefly addressed the matter by beginning with the statement of the long-time practice that, whenever possible, no soldier should be left behind.  She reference the "proof of life" observation matter from a phone call she recounted with Secretary Hagel.  She noted that there are many facts to elicit that could well provide valuable info about the Taliban as well as overall circumstances.  Clinton went on to stress the importance of facts: Rather meaningfully, she remarked that there is a growing tendency among some to live and argue from a "fact-free zone."


    He is still supposed to give 30 days notice (none / 0) (#165)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 11:59:46 AM EST
    He did. Or do that this time.  They don't seem to concerned about the hyperventilating of congress

    Who (none / 0) (#169)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 12:19:13 PM EST
    with a sane mind would be concerned about the hyperventilating of congress? They're a bunch of fire breathing maniacs. Everytime I think the crazy clown car can't hold any more people a few more find a way to shove themselves into it.

    It's over the top screeching hysteria topped by more over the top screeching hysterica by yet even MORE screeching hysteria. What's that pharmaceutical that calms people down? I can't remember the name of it but honestly someone needs to start spiking their drinks in the congressional cafeteria with it.

    Oh, I remember Xanax. At this point I think they need to become Xanax zombies or something.


    No, that's not correct. (none / 0) (#167)
    by Anne on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 12:06:02 PM EST
    The bill calls on the Secretary of Defense to notify Congress 30 days in advance of any transfer and outline the steps the administration has taken to ensure the detainee is not engaging in terrorist activities against the United States.

    Specifically, it says:

    .--The Secretary of Defense shall notify the appropriate committees of Congress of a determination of the Secretary under subsection (a) or (b) not later than 30 days before the transfer or release of the individual under such subsection. Each notification shall include, at a minimum, the following:
    (1) A detailed statement of the basis for the transfer or release.
    (2) An explanation of why the transfer or release is in the national security interests of the United States.
    (3) A description of any actions taken to mitigate the risks of reengagement by the individual to be transferred or released,
    including any actions taken to address factors relevant to a prior case of reengagement described in subsection (c)(3).
    (4) A copy of any Periodic Review Board findings relating to the individual.
    (5) A description of the evaluation conducted pursuant to subsection (c), including a summary of the assessment required by paragraph (6) of such subsection.

    Obama then issued a signing statement, in which he said, in part:

    Section 1035 does not, however, eliminate all of the unwarranted limitations on foreign transfers and, in certain circumstances, would violate constitutional separation of powers principles. The executive branch must have the flexibility, among other things, to act swiftly in conducting negotiations with foreign countries regarding the circumstances of detainee transfers.

    If it was as simple as release now, notify later, there's even less excuse for why we're still holding so many detainees.


    Well (none / 0) (#170)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 12:21:02 PM EST
    I wasn't really debating about Obama holding all these prisoners. I personally think they should have been tried or let go. This indefinite detention crap is stupid.

    Yes it is clear that the President (none / 0) (#184)
    by KeysDan on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 01:08:25 PM EST
    did not follow all conditions of the law by not notifying Congress in advance, even though the POW exchange had been discussed with Congress for two years.

     However, as noted, in the 2014 bill that imposed the conditions,  the president  claimed, in an accompanying signing statement, that  he had the constitutional power to override those conditions.

    What the law actually is, may come to be what the Court says it is.  The general notion of presidential :signing statements, rather than a veto of the bill, may be a matter for the Courts to resolve some day.  Certainly, George W. Bush  was the king of signing statements, including justification for torture, aka, enhanced interrogation.

    Much is trying to be being made of the unworthiness of Sgt  Bergdahl (whose  surname apparently conjures up similarity to Benghaziin Republicans) and the five Guantanamo prisoners exchanged,giving the vapors to Miss Lindsey, for instance.   However, conditions other than the advance notice appear to have been reasonably well met, and the 30-day, or its flexibility, arguably so, given the circumstances.  


    My focus isn't Bergdahl. (none / 0) (#192)
    by Anne on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 02:03:38 PM EST
    My focus is on how it is that a president who seems to be claiming he isn't constrained by Congress, and can release detainees from Guantanamo all by himself, can continue to whine that he can't close the facility because Congress won't let him.

    Seems to me he's painted himself into a corner.


    Yes, I know that was your (none / 0) (#197)
    by KeysDan on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 02:26:35 PM EST
    focus and I agree.   He painted himself into  a corner and I am in his corner on this one.  These five detainees have been at Guantanamo since 200l-2002.  And, as Stephen Colbert said, we released them just as we were this close (putting two fingers together) to charging them with something.

    My response was to take the opportunity of your comment to lend my thinking on that 30-day notice as well as on the  Republican operatives still busy at work.  


    Guantanamo should be closed. (5.00 / 4) (#200)
    by Anne on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 02:34:34 PM EST
    Seems to me the president has now demonstrated that he can do just that.

    So, we'll see whether the recent release was the beginning of a move to closing the facility, or just a one-off to be accompanied by more excuses, hand-wringing and terror-demagoguing.


    Not the argument/position (none / 0) (#181)
    by vicndabx on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 12:56:28 PM EST
    If the Obama administration's position is that Congress cannot constrain the president from releasing the detainees, shouldn't a president who has repeatedly said he wanted to close Guantanamo be issuing orders to do just that?

    Argument is in the context of negotiations w/a foreign entity, in this case the Taliban who we were fighting.

    As you so aptly note, there is a law preventing him from outright releasing anyone w/o running it by Congress, let alone the politics of it.

    I agree w/Capt. Howdy, if there's to be any movement, it will be after the midterms.  What that movement is remains to be seen.


    Baseball update (none / 0) (#173)
    by Dadler on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 12:29:37 PM EST
    Friday June 22nd, the A's are at home against the Red Sox, and it's free Coco Crisp Garden Gnome night.

    Enough said. Be there.

    And let's not forget Coco Crisp's best attribute as a ballplayer -- he doesn't get soggy in milk (hat tip to John Kruk on that one).

    And here's the actual free item (none / 0) (#175)
    by Dadler on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 12:31:15 PM EST
    I see your Coco Crisp Garden Gnome Night... (none / 0) (#176)
    by kdog on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 12:42:30 PM EST
    and raise you Brooklyn Cyclones Seinfeld Night on July 5th.  In addition to a Keith Hernandez Magic Loogie Bobblehead giveaway, we've got...

    *MCU Park will known as Vandelay Industries Park for one night only.
    *Mailmen in uniform get to throw out a ceremonial first pitch ("Hello Newman!")
    *Anyone who has a business card indicating that they are in fact a "Latex Salesman" will also receive a free ticket to the game.  If we call the number and it's some apartment on the Upper West Side, you won't qualify for the freebie.
    *Fans can visit the information table for an "airing of grievances."
    *Closest to the pin / whale's blow hole competition ("Is that a Titleist?")
    *The foul poles will be known as Festivus Poles.
    *"Low-Talking" PA Announcer.
    *Elaine Dancing Contest
    *Everyone Runs the Bases Post-game...but anyone named Jerry gets a head start (Take that Duncan Meyer).
    *Game of "Risk" on the Concourse
    *Cereal eating contests
    *Anyone named George Costanza will be allowed to join our radio broadcast as a color analyst for an inning
    *Players in puffy shirts for batting practice.

    Tentative plan is to borrow my bro's postal uniform so I can throw out one of 'dem ceremonial first pitches.


    Of course this is not legal advice, (none / 0) (#185)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 01:14:04 PM EST
    but it's gotta' be a crime to impersonate a federal mail person.

    I'm not gonna try... (none / 0) (#190)
    by kdog on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 01:43:43 PM EST
    and deliver any mail pal, just rock the blue shorts with a rope chain for a couple hours to get on a professional diamond for the first time ever!

    My bro has already been on one...Shea Stadium NL East clincher 1986...back in less police statish days when fans could rush the field after a big win.  He came home with a nice chunk of the sacred Shea turf.


    Nyet Comrade... (none / 0) (#194)
    by kdog on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 02:21:24 PM EST
    do tell!

    4th of July about 15" years ago (5.00 / 4) (#201)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 02:45:49 PM EST
    me and a bunch of buddies go a Dodgers game on 4th of July.

    After the game they invited the fans onto the field to watch a fireworks display.

    We sit in center field and my one buddy who grew up near the stadium and who bleeds dodger blue, spent the whole time working at digging up a chunk of the turf.

    He hides it under his shirt and when he gets home he plants it in a flower pot and took care of that turf like is was a newborn baby.

    Anyway, he moves away to the midwest somewhere and about 7 years later I'm working on a commercial at Dodger Stadium. There was lots of downtime and a couple of us struck up a convo with a couple of the grounds keepers.

    We complimented them on how perfect the grass was, and one of them says something about "how it takes a lot of work to keep the grass just right" and then says "Sometimes, it's people that trash the grass. 7 years ago some a-hole dug a big chunk out of the outfield during a 4th of July Fireworks display. It took weeks to repair that spot just right."

    I just nodded my head in silent support.


    Classic... (none / 0) (#209)
    by kdog on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 03:59:21 PM EST
    I remember reading it took a yeoman's grounds crew effort to put Shea back to together during the magical 1986 run...my brother told me while he was getting his souvenir turf some dude was trying like the Dickens to dig out the pitching rubber but could not do it.

    I think the diehards are entitled...even if it sucks for the grounds crew.  But those days are long gone...I believe the official end to MLB field clebrations were the 90's Yankees under Guiliani...they had cops on horses up and down the foul lines to keep the fans off the field.  Looked like a f8cking cavalry.  



    Always trying to save me and kdog (none / 0) (#203)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 02:57:54 PM EST
    From the possible consequences of our actions.  We play the percentages though. It's a gambling thing :)

    SITE VIOLATOR (none / 0) (#174)
    by vicndabx on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 12:30:51 PM EST

    Brienne from GOT (none / 0) (#189)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 01:31:32 PM EST
    To do the new Star Wars.  Also Lupita Nyongo from 12Years a Slave.

    Star Wars Cast Adds Lupita Nyong'o and Game of Thrones' Brienne

    Mad magazine weighs in on (none / 0) (#205)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 03:09:30 PM EST
    Trading for Bergdahl as only they can.

    Speaking of GoT... (none / 0) (#210)
    by unitron on Wed Jun 04, 2014 at 12:44:16 AM EST