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Obama Swaps 5 Gitmo Detainees for 1 U.S. Soldier

Five Afghan detainees at Guantanamo have been traded for the release of Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl, an American soldier being held in Afghanistan. The detainees were delivered to the Government of Quatar in Cuba, while U.S. commandos picked up the soldier in Afghanistan. Quatar was instrumental in the negotiations.

The White House says the detainees were members of the Taliban, not al Qaeda. All five have been held at Gitmo since 2002.

The released detainees are: Mohammad Fazl, about 47, Mullah Norullah Noori, about 47, Mohammed Nabi, about 48, Khairullah Khairkhwa, about 47, and Abdul Haq Wasiq, about 43. [More...]

President Obama said tonight:

“The United States of America does not ever leave our men and women in uniform behind,” President Barack Obama said Saturday evening from the White House Rose Garden with Bergdahl’s parents.

The Gitmo detainees were flown by a U.S. Air Force C-17 Globemaster. An unnamed U.S. official said:

“This is a case of the commander-in-chief exercising his prerogative to get one of his soldiers back.”

The Taliban released a statement explaining the transfer this way:

"They were released as a result of indirect contacts by the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan and the United States, and with the help of the Qatar government they have joined their families in Qatar," the Taliban statement continued.

Qatar has said the released detainees will remain in Qatar for a year.

There are now 149 detainees remaining at Guantanamo. It's long past time to send them home as well.

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  • Of course Inhofe is complaining (5.00 / 4) (#1)
    by ruffian on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 06:11:32 AM EST
    That Congress did not get 30 days notice of the transfer from Gitmo. A law specifically designed to prevent Obama from doing anything good. I'm really glad he ignored it.

    Not to go OT (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 09:25:58 AM EST
    But he plans to do some more ignoring and quietly allow some dreamers to enlist.

    Parent
    McCain is spouting off also. How (none / 0) (#9)
    by oculus on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 10:16:26 AM EST
    can we be assured the released people won't hurt us in the future.

    Parent
    Those people (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by lentinel on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 04:23:56 PM EST
    may or may not be dangerous, but I personally am more afraid of McCain.

    Parent
    If we could only be assured (none / 0) (#28)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 11:40:04 AM EST
    John and Lindsey won't hurt us in the future

    Parent
    Anything good? (none / 0) (#40)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 11:52:20 AM EST
     

    The next American taken as a hostage or killed in the process can thank Obama.  Now that Obama has demonstrated the value of taking Americans as hostages, there will be more to follow.  

     

    Parent

    Ha ha ha ha ha (5.00 / 3) (#43)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 12:05:23 PM EST
    Americans are so easy to take hostage :). We're just defenseless sitting ducks who must live in fear everyday.  Consumed with fear :)

    Parent
    Yes, MT (none / 0) (#46)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 12:14:13 PM EST
    There are thousands of Americans,just not military, who are now valuable as a hostage.

    Parent
    The whole world runs a certain risk Jim (none / 0) (#53)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 12:24:04 PM EST
    Certainly you saw Captain Phillips though.  I didn't see it, but I sort of have an idea how that all goes.

    You're just working hard trying to discredit Obama though, that's all.  And I am not afraid Jim, not at all.  Not anymore afraid than I was yesterday.  I don't think you are either :).

    Parent

    No, I didn't see Capt Phillips (none / 0) (#57)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 12:34:01 PM EST
    And have no idea as to what it is about.

    But then I don't pay much attention to Gollywood.

    And I don't have to discredit Obama. He does it himself.

    As for fear, that's an old BS argument that failed long ago.

    Fact. The Muslim terrorists have been shown that they can get back 5 of theirs for one of ours.

    Parent

    You're so funny too Jim (5.00 / 2) (#63)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 12:38:30 PM EST
    I have this image of you in my head with your thumbs in your belt loops rocking slightly backwards and saying, "Hell, one of our guys is worth at least five of theirs!"

    Parent
    You are assuming (5.00 / 5) (#65)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 12:46:30 PM EST
    Opposable thumbs?

    Parent
    Snarky remarks (1.00 / 1) (#107)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 07:18:34 PM EST
    define you MT. I am reminded of when you first showed up supposedly commenting while hanging outside Bush's vacation spot because he wouldn't meet with... what was her name?? I mean after the Left was done with her she was dropped into obscurity... for a second time.

    You remind me very much of the people here:

    link

    and here

    link

    only not as refined.

    Parent

    You and your ridiculous right wing buddies (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 09:41:06 PM EST
    Are showing everyone what you are really about.  Do you even realize that I wonder.  No,probably not.  But you know what ?  This guy from Red State does--

    Democratic, liberal, and progressive partisans will freak. That particularly smarmy freaking that the more obnoxious examples do when they think that they've got the moral drop on you.

    At least he is smart enough to know the score.  WE DO have the "moral drop on you" .  This is called circle the wagons and cover your ass they have totally caught us with our pants down.  
    If it wasn't so pathetic it would actually be funny.  

    Does that qualify as snarky?


    Parent

    Juicy GOT ending (none / 0) (#117)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 09:46:25 PM EST
    Maybe a little too much juice :)

    Parent
    There is still an open (none / 0) (#118)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 09:49:20 PM EST
    Why did any of us show up (none / 0) (#114)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 09:10:51 PM EST
    At Bush's ranch Jim outside of that small group of Gold Star families?  One father, who had lost a son had a long military career himself as an Army Ranger too.  So you do realize there were four Gold Star families there though right?  I digress

    Why did the rest of us go?

    Because Bush said he was going to arrest Iraq War protesters, so others joined because that notion runs counter to everything this country stands for....arresting war protesters.

    And nobody was arrested, he tested the citizens and found himself wanting, and that weekend thousands of people drove to no place Texas to make sure the Bushies got it.  There would be no arrest of war protesters.

    The only thing that ends wars driven by neo- cons are war protesters.  Without protesters, soldiers are nothing more than meat for grinders.  It is a check in the check and balance scheme of things.  It is the voice of the people.  It is the voice of those the military serves.

    You weren't going to drive my family off a cliff though and ignore the American people Jim.

    Parent

    I think it was a fabulous trade (none / 0) (#58)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 12:35:27 PM EST
    Would have made that trade myself!

    Parent
    Fairly easy indeed (none / 0) (#80)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 01:47:17 PM EST
     

    There are plenty of American civilians around the world that would be fairly easy to tale prisoner for an armed and determine group.  

    Obama was determined to close Gitmo.  Perhaps this is his method.  The sale window is open, the price of five for one may come down as more sympathetic hostages are taken.

     

    Parent

    You are coo coo for cocoa puffs (5.00 / 4) (#84)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 01:58:25 PM EST
    It was not a civilian (5.00 / 3) (#86)
    by MKS on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 02:04:19 PM EST
    exchange.

    It was an exchange of POWs....Done throughout history.

    And, do you guys remember Reagan?  Good grief.

    Parent

    POW's have no right to trials, lawyers or release (none / 0) (#105)
    by thomas rogan on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 05:37:04 PM EST
    I have never heard of the GITMO detainees be defined as POW's.  Is that the current controlling definition?

    Parent
    I don't care about definitions (5.00 / 2) (#106)
    by MKS on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 06:04:45 PM EST
    regarding this exchange.

    We got one of our own back.

    The Israelis do engage in exchanges of "prisoners" for one of their troops.

    This criticism shows how craven conservatives are....they do not care about the troops....just their own political agenda.

    Parent

    What bothers you more? (5.00 / 4) (#95)
    by Molly Bloom on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 03:17:19 PM EST
    Trading 5 for 1 or failing to secure the right to sell them arms and give them a cake and a bible?

     Would you feel better if he said "I did not trade arms for hostages. My heart and my best intentions still tell me that's true, but the facts and the evidence tell me it is not."?

    Did "they" learn "this lesson" from President Obama or Reagan?

    Parent

    Another amnesiac (5.00 / 2) (#62)
    by Molly Bloom on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 12:38:09 PM EST
    So ridiculous. (5.00 / 7) (#77)
    by ruffian on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 01:38:28 PM EST
    Yes terrorists, after letting your guys rot in prison for 11 years we may eventually trade a few of them to a neutral country for a year in which we will watch them and drone kill them if they step out of line - for one American POW - not hostage. Have at it if that is what you were waiting for to motivate you to take American hostages.


    Parent
    Brilliant (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 01:43:48 PM EST
    I left one thing out (5.00 / 3) (#81)
    by ruffian on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 01:49:33 PM EST
    Act fast while we still have a president with nothing left to lose finally willing to brave the certain sh**storm from his idiot enemies and do the right thing.

    Parent
    They have memory issues :) (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 02:32:58 PM EST
    I have (none / 0) (#102)
    by lentinel on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 04:25:16 PM EST
    a good idea:

    Let's get the fk out of there.

    Parent

    Imo... (none / 0) (#126)
    by lentinel on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 07:17:38 AM EST
    your comment is sorely lacking in compassion.

    This is a prisoner exchange. Not a hostage situation.

    Parent

    I'm (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by lentinel on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 07:54:20 AM EST
    very glad that our American soldier was released, and that five of the poor souls languishing in Gitmo for 12 years were also sent home.

    But this comment by Mr. Obama,

    "The United States of America does not ever leave our men and women in uniform behind..."

    gives me the willies.

    The US traditionally treats its soldiers and especially its veterans with varying degrees of contempt in my opinion. For returning vets, the lack of medical treatment has been a scandal for decades. Once in awhile the country takes notice, and then things slip back into the obscurity of indifference.

    So, yes. I am glad that this swap of prisoners was negotiated - and I will give credit to Mr. Obama if he is the one who actually engineered this - but I would never generalize into saying that we actually care about our men and women in uniform.

    No, no, no. We don't leave them behind. (5.00 / 4) (#10)
    by scribe on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 10:26:10 AM EST
    We just dump them in a refrigerator crate under a bridge after we bring them back stateside.

    Parent
    Oh, really? (none / 0) (#19)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 11:27:09 AM EST
    You wrote:

    ...and that five of the poor souls languishing in Gitmo for 12 years were also sent home.

    It is said that you are known by the people you associate with.

    Perhaps you wish to withdraw your approval.

    --Abdul Haq Wasiq, who served as the Taliban deputy minister of intelligence

    --Mullah Norullah Nori, a senior Taliban commander in the northern city of Mazar-e-Sharif when the Taliban fought U.S. forces in late 2001

    --Khairullah Khairkhwa, who served in various Taliban positions including interior minister and had direct ties to Taliban leader Mullah Omar and Osama bin Laden

    --Mohammed Nabi, who served as chief of security for the Taliban in Qalat, Afghanistan, and later worked as a radio operator for the Taliban's communications office in Kabul

    --Mohammad Fazl, whom Human Rights Watch says could be prosecuted for war crimes for presiding over the mass killing of Shiite Muslims in Afghanistan in 2000 and 2001 as the Taliban sought to consolidate their control over the country.

    link

    Parent

    Good point. (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by lentinel on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 01:33:43 PM EST
    My question:

    You wrote that:

    -Mohammad Fazl, whom Human Rights Watch says could be prosecuted for war crimes for presiding over the mass killing of Shiite Muslims in Afghanistan in 2000 and 2001 as the Taliban sought to consolidate their control over the country.

    If he could have been prosecuted for war crimes, why in the twelve years he was detained were charges not brought against him?

    And if there were charges brought against him, what were the results?

    Parent

    A couple of thoughts, as I read through (5.00 / 8) (#127)
    by Anne on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 07:18:28 AM EST
    this thread and pick up a little of the coverage of the exchange...

    Why must we always set up this dynamic involving the term "hero?"  I understand heroic actions and behavior, but I don't think wearing a uniform automatically makes someone a hero.  I have a nephew in basic training at Parris Island: he's not a hero.  He's a 19 yr old kid who wants to learn to be a mechanic, who isn't cut out for college,  doesn't want a minimum wage job and can't afford to move out of mom and dad's house.  Maybe one day he'll do something heroic, but he's not there yet.

    I don't know - I'm not sure anyone does - what the whole story is on Bowe Bergdahl, but what's really turning my stomach is that somehow whatever he's suffered at the hands of his captors isn't payment enough for whatever it is he's alleged to have done to get himself captured or for the lives lost looking for him.  We don't even know, at this point, what was done to him, what damages he's sustained, and yet the calls for the US to punish him are getting louder.

    I hate the media. I hate the way they play these stories and the emotion attached to them.  I hate that the bloodthirsty slavering of war-mongering politicians keeps being treated as normal and good and credible.  

    Starting out the week cranky, I guess.  Sorry.

    Don't (5.00 / 2) (#131)
    by lentinel on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 09:07:59 AM EST
    apologize.

    You have every right to be angry!

    Great post.

    Parent

    I agree (5.00 / 1) (#140)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 10:07:51 AM EST
    This honestly seems like a new low.  Just when you thought lower was not possible.  

    How low can you go?  Every day is a new frontier.

    Parent

    Hero Dynamic? (none / 0) (#128)
    by squeaky on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 08:06:05 AM EST
    Why must we always set up this dynamic involving the term "hero?"

    No one here is setting up a dynamic involving the term hero. No comment here at TL refers to any hero dynamic.

    Not sure why you are giving credence to some disgruntled people who are shifting the goal posts, and bringing up issues that are irrelevant to Bergdahl's release.

    Unless you are referring to Obama as a hero for getting back an American prisoner and getting 5 US prisoners out of Gitmo. Not likely...

    Parent

    ::rolling eyes:: (5.00 / 2) (#129)
    by Anne on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 08:54:36 AM EST
    It's a big world, squeaky, much larger than just what gets said here on TL.

    I briefly considered making the effort to - once again - correct the conclusions to which you leaped and deal with your attempts to put words in my mouth and thoughts in my head, but I'm not in the mood to engage with people who raise being deliberately obtuse to an art form.

    Or with people who apparently lie in wait to pounce on my comments; it's more than a little creepy.


    Parent

    Sq (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by lentinel on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 09:10:09 AM EST
    likes to leap to respond to things not actually said by the person she/he is responding to.

    It makes a rational dialogue impossible - and if one attempts it - exhausting.

    Parent

    Wow (none / 0) (#133)
    by squeaky on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 09:14:24 AM EST
    if you find being responded to creepy, stop posting on a public blog.

    Your comment starts off as having read the comments in the thread, where there is zero reference to hero dynamic. And then after you

    pick up a little of the coverage of the exchange.

    you make bold sweeping statements like this:

    Why must we always set up this dynamic involving the term "hero?"

    Has your limited reading of the exchange been to right wing sites?

    Because it has zero to do with the thread and considering that you have read a little coverage of the exchange, why would you make such a broad generalization as if you have uncovered some universal truth?

    Pretensions to say the least, and giving thrift to idiots who are not mainstream, imo.

    Parent

    I don't find being responded to creepy, (5.00 / 2) (#138)
    by Anne on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 09:58:58 AM EST
    I find you creepy, okay?  I find it creepy that I haven't posted anything since Saturday, and bingo-bango, as soon as I do, there you are.

    And you have nothing thoughtful or engaging to say in that comment, you just want to take my words and make them into something else and then provide some off-the-wall musing for why I said something you haven't even read correctly so you can draw a negative conclusion about me.

    Creepy.  And you've done it again.  Which is why it's so freakin' pointless to even try to engage.  You're not interested in discussion with me, you're interested in discussion with what you need me to be so you can be whatever it is you're going for.  I find it creepy.

    Does this sound like the opinion of someone who is giving credibility to the right wing?

    I hate the media. I hate the way they play these stories and the emotion attached to them.  I hate that the bloodthirsty slavering of war-mongering politicians keeps being treated as normal and good and credible.

    And it's not "thrift," by the way, it's "shrift."

    Jeezus.

    Parent

    OK (1.00 / 1) (#142)
    by squeaky on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 10:15:59 AM EST
    Yes, the reflexive personal insult.. can't help yourself..  My advice for you is if you are creeped out you need to work out your problem with your psychiatrist.

    I find it creepy that I haven't posted anything since Saturday, and bingo-bango, as soon as I do, there you are.

    Are you referring to your Saturday comment in response to a comment I wrote? and then your ensuing reflexive insult?

    hmmmm.... The lady doth protest too much, methinks...

    Parent

    Number One Reason... (5.00 / 5) (#190)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 02:30:35 PM EST
    ...I have not posted in nearly 6 months, squeaky and his/her compulsive need to irritate everyone that is accompanied here with the compulsive need to reply to everything.

    There are other reason of course, but squeaky is the person keeping me away, this thread being the typical example.

    And I am positive that compulsive behavior will not allow him/her to ignore this post.

    Parent

    I miss your comments, Scott. (5.00 / 1) (#197)
    by Anne on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 03:54:38 PM EST
    But I feel your pain.  

    Hope things are going well for you!

    Parent

    Try substituting (none / 0) (#135)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 09:27:36 AM EST
    "Poster boy" or "model soldier" for hero.

    Parent
    BS (none / 0) (#136)
    by squeaky on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 09:42:08 AM EST
    One wing nut commenter brings up allegations that Bergdahl went AWOL :

    But lets not pretend this guy was a model soldier. It is time for you to admit he is not a poster boy.

    First off, poster boy and model soldier have zero to do with being a hero. Both terms in this context refer to a soldier who follows orders and never strays from his or her duty. Hardly anything to do with the heroic.

    And one poster, who certainly did not come close to suggesting that Obama or anyone thinks of Bergdal as a hero, gets transformed to the collective conscious of all TL or the world, or TL and the world according to Anne:

    Why must we always set up this dynamic involving the term "hero?"

    Sorry CaptHowdy, Anne is not speaking for me, nor the wing nuts who comment on this site...  jeeeez even ppj did not go there.

    As far as I can tell the only mention of hero is by disgruntled soldiers who are either Obama haters or irate that Berghdal was freed.

    Parent

    This is the headline one one of several links (none / 0) (#137)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 09:47:47 AM EST
    Fellow soldiers call Bowe Bergdahl a deserter, not a hero

    From a regular commenter here not the one you cited.  CNN.

    Take a breath.

    Parent

    Yes I Read Slado's Link (none / 0) (#139)
    by squeaky on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 10:05:03 AM EST
    And once again, those disgruntled soldiers who are obviously making political hay do not represent the bulk of commenters at TL nor the mainstream populace.

    To turn the marginal Obama haters into this is pretentious, untrue and and absurd:

    Why must we always set up this dynamic involving the term "hero?" [emphasis mine]

    the use of hero dynamic belongs to neither we or always, imo. despite what those who want to discredit Obama for getting the only US prisoner in Afghanistan released.

    It is about politics.

    Parent

    You know what (none / 0) (#141)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 10:15:22 AM EST
    You are full of it.  Nearly ever story I have seen or read about this has included at some point that question, hero or deserter.  It is clear  to everyone but you apparently this is the media meme.
    You have a habit of jumping Ito things, this, the price of MoCap software, of the subject of the day when you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

    Anne is absolutely right.  And I am not usually the one to say that.  
    Now
    Fell free to indulge your neurotic compulsion to have the last word.  I'm done,
    .
    But I wouldn't go to pretentious if I was you.

    Parent

    BS (none / 0) (#144)
    by squeaky on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 10:48:53 AM EST
    The fact that the media is reporting controversy about Bergdahl's status is the regular anti Obama crap that the media loves to dish out.

    It sells soap.

    That is a different discussion, imo.

    To give shrift to the wingnut, discourse by asking absurdly obvious questions, is adding to the distraction here:

    Why must we always set up this dynamic involving the term "hero?"

    Because this is about Politics, and to give it any more shrift is counter productive. And, the term hero has only been used by one disgruntled Obama haters...

    What is disgusting is that CNN would give marginalized wing nuts aka three percent nation a voice.

    Annes question about hero dynamics, distorts the issue, imo, gives credibility to the wingnuts, imo.

    The issue is about Obama, Berghahl is a bit player in the firestorm. Even though Obama is freeing the last remaining soldier in Afghanistan, his detractors are suggesting that Obama is a muslim sympathizer because Bergdahl loved the Taliban.

    That is the story. The issue about whether a captured soldier needs to be a hero in order to be saved is not part of this dialogue.

    At best, if you want to make this about Berghal, the story is about whether someone who some alleged went AWOL, deserves to have been traded for 5 taliban from gitmo. '

    Hero dynamics is not the issue, despite how the wingnuts want to frame the discussion, imo

    Parent

    Asking why these things always (none / 0) (#157)
    by Anne on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 11:49:35 AM EST
    have to be framed in terms of "hero" was not meant to legitimize the efforts of the right-wing and the media to make it part of the discussion, it was meant to do just the opposite.

    In other words, I was saying it should not be part of the discussion; I was irritated at the direction of the discussion.  I actually think most people got that, and did not take it as being support for the right-wing nonsense.  

    Like it or not, the issues surrounding Bergdahl  were part of the discussion here.  As was the question of whether Obama should have made the exchange.  You're awfully quick to tell me what should and shouldn't be part of the discussion, but I don't see much from you in this thread that is on the point you say the rest of us should be on.  Perhaps, if what you want is a substantive discussion on specific points that you've decided are appropriate, you should provide some; to chastise me for responding to the content of an ongoing discussion seems...petty.  

    Here's David Atkins over at Washington Monthly with some substance:

    The first of these problems is the legal swamp that is the War on Terror, and the particularly murky moral and legal zone that is the Guantanamo Bay detention facility. But for the cowardice of Congress, all the prisoners at Guantanamo should have been transferred into stateside prisons and tried for their crimes or released. That would have eliminated many of the legal issues involved in the exchange.

    The second is a political question. The GOP has become such a nearly nihilistic obstructionist force that even if the Obama Administration hadn't needed to act so quickly to secure the transfer, giving the House 30 days notice would have been turned into a carnival for political gain in advance of the midterm elections, and likely would have blown the potential deal.

    The third is a matter of government secrets. Partially because of the political problem and partially due to an overweening security state, not nearly enough members of Congress are adequately briefed on nearly enough national security secrets. That in turn leads to an inability by the legislative branch to fully hold the national security deep state accountable for wrongdoing, as well as mutual distrust between the branches.

    It is highly unlikely that the Obama Administration released men who still posed extremely strong risks to U.S. interests. But without sharing that information with Congress and the American people, and without knowledge of how detainment at Guantanamo has affected the specific prisoners involved, that's an impossible question for the lay pundit to answer.

    In the end there's no one to trust. It's bad policy on the merits to simply trust the Executive Branch on its own say-so. But the GOP has been such a bad faith actor that its objections can hardly be seen as more than political gamesmanship--particularly from the same party that idolizes a president who secretly traded missiles to Iran for hostages.

    It's probably not to your liking either, because it's more nuanced than the discussion you've declared we're supposed to be having and it isn't sufficiently praising of Obama's actions.  

    Parent

    Not Declaring What To Discuss (none / 0) (#163)
    by squeaky on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 12:13:43 PM EST
    Simply taking issue with your framing of the issue. And I am certainly not accusing you of supporting right wing nonsense, intentionally. What I am pointing out is the question:

    Why must we always set up this dynamic involving the term "hero?"

    Is playing into wingnuttia's framing. No one has called Bergdahl a hero. To engage in the question is foolish and gives shrift to right wing framing. Patriot nation and the Jake Tapper's parroting of them saying that Bergdahl is not a hero is a rhetorical trap.

    And, even though our wingnutters here are parroting the allegations by patriot nation that Bergdahl is a deserter, no one here has brought up the hero dynamic.

    It is different to argue that Berghdahl broke the rules and deserved to be a Taliban prisoner, than to argue that only heroes deserve to be rescued.

    The wingers her are arguing, or at best questioning, whether Bergdahl deserved to be rescued because of his alleged AWOL.

     

    Parent

    Wingnut Framing (none / 0) (#145)
    by squeaky on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 10:52:55 AM EST
    NO ONE has called Bergdahl a hero.

    It is a non-sequitur meant to distract and heap a pile of dirt on Obama. Simple.

    Parent

    Capt, what is your military history? (none / 0) (#146)
    by oculus on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 10:59:09 AM EST
    Or is that a nautical reference?

    Parent
    oc, what is your interest? (5.00 / 1) (#178)
    by sj on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 01:13:02 PM EST
    Capt, what is your military history? (none / 0) (#146)
    by oculus on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 09:59:09 AM MDT

    Or is that a nautical reference?

    Or is that just stirring the pot?

    Parent
    I was surprised the captain was admonishing (none / 0) (#198)
    by oculus on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 03:57:18 PM EST
    squeaky so I was trying to figure out the motivation beyond squeaky and Anne disagreeing.

    Parent
    Oka-a-ay... (none / 0) (#199)
    by sj on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 04:22:18 PM EST
    I was surprised the captain was admonishing (none / 0) (#198)
    by oculus on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 02:57:18 PM MDT

    squeaky so I was trying to figure out the motivation beyond squeaky and Anne disagreeing.


    And that has what to do with his handle? Still not seeing the connection.

    And I'm still trying to figure out the motivation behind squeaky's disagreeability (with any particular person) myself, but I think I knew that CH's handle had nothing to do with it.

    But never mind. I'll just assume that you hadn't had any caffeine and your thought processes were undefined.

    Parent

    What reference (none / 0) (#150)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 11:13:58 AM EST
    I don't understand your comment

    Parent
    To answer (none / 0) (#151)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 11:15:36 AM EST
    I proudly have no military history

    Parent
    Are you going to explain or am I supposed to guess (none / 0) (#172)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 12:50:46 PM EST
    I would like to know what your point was supposed to be

    Parent
    Captain Is A Military Rank (5.00 / 1) (#174)
    by squeaky on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 12:56:06 PM EST
    Sorry that after how many years (5.00 / 2) (#177)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 01:08:00 PM EST
    And how many discussions about the source of that name int these threads  that is would miss the point--

    Pazuzu is a fictional character and the main antagonist in The Exorcist horror novels and film series, created by William Peter Blatty. Blatty derived the character from Assyrian and Babylonian mythology, where Pazuzu was considered the king of the demons of the wind, and the son of the god Hanbi. In The Exorcist Pazuzu appears as a demon who possesses Regan MacNeil.
    The majority of the film deals with Regan's demonic possession by a being she initially refers to as "Captain Howdy."

    But you can call me sir.

    Parent

    Assuming, arguendo, the (5.00 / 1) (#160)
    by oculus on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 12:01:01 PM EST
     the involvement of the Taliban being released is as described in the NYT, the U.S. Government should have prosecuted these five years ago.

    A few thoughts here: (5.00 / 3) (#204)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jun 04, 2014 at 12:26:44 AM EST
    (1) The war in Afghanistan is officially winding down, and those five prisoners -- who were Taliban, and not al Qa'eda -- would have had to be released at its conclusion anyway. To not do so would constitute a violation of the Geneva Conventions.

    (2) The practice of prisoner exchanges are almost as old as the so-called "art of war" itself. In earlier times, the practice was to parole prisoners of war after their capture / surrender and send them home (which the Americans did to British soldiers at Saratoga in 1778), with the admonition that they were not to return to battle -- because if they did and were captured again, that was grounds for their summary execution.

    (3) Abraham Lincoln was arguably the first leader in modern times to refuse to engage in prisoner exchanges during wartime, because he knew that the large numbers of Union prisoners in Confederate hands were proving an increasing burden upon the beleaguered and starving rebels. The resultant treatment of prisoners on both sides in the Civil War was an abomination, and responsibility for the horrors of Andersonville could just as easily be laid at the feet of Lincoln as it was at those of the camp's commander, Confederate Col. Henry Wirz, who was later executed for war crimes. Conditions at Camp Douglas, where rebel prisoners were held outside Chicago, was just as bad as Andersonville.

    (3) The wingbats who are carping about this particular exchange have very short memories, especially when it comes to Republican presidents who negotiated for the release of American prisoners / hostages. The Iran-Contra scandal -- the genesis of which was the attempt by the Reagan administration to negotiate the release of American captives held in Beirut, Lebanon -- comes immediately and specifically to mind.

    Aloha.

    May I just say (4.60 / 5) (#42)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 12:04:11 PM EST
    It is a sad and depressing example of how fvcked up our country is that bullsh!t political agendas makes it impossible for some people to simply be glad a POW is coming home ok.  

    for fvcks sakes you would think in the history of the republic prisoners had never been exchanged.  


    Yes, Captain (5.00 / 4) (#66)
    by KeysDan on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 12:46:48 PM EST
    you rightly make the point that the Sgt. was a POW, not a hostage.  Captured on the battlefield.   An example of a hostage situation, would be the Reagan Administration's secret facilitation of the sale of arms to Iran (under an arms embargo) and using the proceeds from the overpriced arms sale to fund, against the Boland Amendment, the Nicaraguan contras.

    Parent
    You know (none / 0) (#67)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 12:53:42 PM EST
    I think one of the problems we have is dealing with the moronic phrase "war on terror".  The terms pow, hostage etc get all mixed up.

    To the point that people like some commenters here don't know the difference or even that there might be a difference

    Parent

    Yes, and it seems (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by KeysDan on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 01:04:09 PM EST
    that the differences among Taliban, Haqqani and al Qaeda are also elusive.  

    Parent
    Helpful links to get up to speed on Bowe Bergdahl (1.50 / 2) (#70)
    by ragebot on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 01:07:13 PM EST
    This is a lengthy article with lots of background that starts off with the blurb

    "Three years ago, a 23-year-old soldier walked off his base in Afghanistan and into the hands of the Taliban."

    So let's get this straight right now.  At best he went AWOL.  There were latrines on base he could have used, but for some reason (and some claim it was to smoke hash) he walked off his base.

    Rolling Stone

    So yea, I am doubling down on my claim that he was not 'standing tall and looking good'.

    But that article is from 2012.  Here is a link to a more recent article addressing the AWOL question in more detail

    Christian Science Monitor

    If you don't like these links simply do a google search on "Bergdahl AWOL".

    My best guess is he will not be charged.  From the CBS link I posted earlier

    "It's hard to imagine any circumstance where his captivity won't be viewed as time served," said Hunter, R-Calif.

    But lets not pretend this guy was a model soldier.

    Honest to god (5.00 / 2) (#72)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 01:13:22 PM EST
    I don't understand what your point is.  Are you saying because he was not (if he was not) a model soldier he should have been left to die?

    Parent
    Well, Captain (5.00 / 4) (#73)
    by KeysDan on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 01:22:52 PM EST
    think of it as progress:  we seem to be going from the Sgt. being a  deserter to being AWOL, or maybe just using an unauthorized latrine or using it for unauthorized purposes such as  a sampling of the newest Aghan cash crop.   If I have haven't helped you, please check with Rush for further clarification.

    Parent
    Your post is silly (2.00 / 1) (#74)
    by ragebot on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 01:31:58 PM EST
    I said he was not "standing tall and looking good" and you asked me why.

    It is time for you to admit he is not a poster boy.  He left his base without permission and was wandering around in a dangerous area.  This is not something a good soldier would do.  He shipped his uniforms home just before he left his base.  He put his fellow soldiers at risk when they tried to locate and rescue him.  He seems to have made multiple bad decisions during his time in service.

    None of this means he should be abandoned by the US, just that Obama was certainly aware of many questions about Bergdahl's past and still went ahead with releasing five bad guys (two wanted by the UN for war crimes) to get his release.

    Parent

    So what exactly is your point? (5.00 / 7) (#79)
    by ruffian on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 01:46:17 PM EST
    That only medal of honor candidates deserve to be released from being POWs?

    Never fear though, I'm sure that after he returns home, if he has to wait more than 5 minutes to see a doctor you will be right back on his side.

     Disgustingly transparently political, but with this one you all may have gone a bit too far.

    Parent

    Yes, the meme (5.00 / 6) (#82)
    by KeysDan on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 01:55:33 PM EST
    is coming across as, Sorry, Sgt. Bergdahl, we can't thank you for your service because if we do this POW exchange will reflect well on President Obama.

    Parent
    Sorry Sgt. (if you really ARE a Sgt)..... (5.00 / 4) (#83)
    by ruffian on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 01:58:09 PM EST
    His Dad looked "granola" (none / 0) (#87)
    by MKS on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 02:06:25 PM EST
    with long hair.  

    Big difference to the wingers...

    Parent

    True, but the dad (5.00 / 3) (#200)
    by KeysDan on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 04:37:10 PM EST
    looked like that Duck Dynasty guy--the wingers should love him.

    Parent
    I don't ever remember saying (5.00 / 3) (#85)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 02:02:06 PM EST
    he was a poster boy.  I don't even know way that means.  Guess I should listen to more hate radio.

    Parent
    A good soldier? (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 02:46:19 PM EST
    So you were in Vietnam and it was full of good soldiers who obeyed every rule?

    Parent
    Really (none / 0) (#94)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 03:16:11 PM EST
    Nobody ever smoked anything there!

    Parent
    Only the good soldiers (none / 0) (#97)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 03:44:19 PM EST
    The not so good soldiers did other things.

    Parent
    If only this kid could have been (none / 0) (#92)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 02:52:17 PM EST
    A famous football player before enlisting.  Then discovering that he read all the time, tested out philosophies, and wrote home disillusioned would have to be proven to your wingnutty forgetful nugget over and over and over again, and you wouldn't have dreamed of painting him in broad blackening strokes.

    Parent
    He had a uniform there (none / 0) (#98)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 03:56:35 PM EST
    You do not know what he shipped home and why and I doubt his parents understood.  During that time of deploying to Afghanistan, the clothing you were issued was just insane because they experience full seasons there.  He could have shipped home his winter versions because he layered his clothing, and they had all sorts of crazy layering items too.  My husband leaves behind everything he is issued that he isn't going to use because you have to drag it all around with you in a war zone.  It is actually a hindrance. YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT HE SENT HOME AND WHY AND OBVIOUSLY HIS FATHER WOULD NOT KNOW EITHER.  He had a uniform on him...duh.  And the military doesn't want its clothing back anymore that soldiers are issued for deployment.  The stuff is his forever.

    God you are so clueless.

    And his unit was complete mess, just a shambles of leadership failure.  Apparently they didn't know their arse from an elbow.  

    Parent

    You seem very stuck on "model soldiers" (none / 0) (#93)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 03:00:10 PM EST
    Just when I think Obama (1.25 / 4) (#3)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 08:15:15 AM EST
    can't do anything dumber, he does this.

    He has shown the Muslim radicals that we will swap prisoners.

    No American in any place in the world is now safe.

    As for ""The United States of America does not ever leave our men and women in uniform behind..."

    I give you Benghazi.

    Guantanamo as a whole is DUMBER (5.00 / 7) (#4)
    by Dadler on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 08:46:55 AM EST
    Our very own North Korean gulag is a disgrace to this nation, at least according to all the brave soldiers I know through my brother. But what the hell, they're just some of the best and brightest, I bet they're just children who don't have a clue.

    It's like drone murders. Stupid and murderously counterproductive beyond all reason. You have a habit of trusting the military far more than you trust the government. Please reconcile those positions for me. Because, you know, we DO have civilian control of the military here, or we're supposed to. Are you going to claim that we really don't have civilian control of the military, that military brass actually run the whole show, and that this is why the military is right to you more often than not? Because rhetorically that's your only out, my friend.

    All in. Peace.

    Parent

    I haven't the vaguest idea as (2.00 / 1) (#20)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 11:30:48 AM EST
    to what your meandering rant is supposed to mean.

    You compare GITMO to North Korea? Please. That alone loses all credibility you had with me.

    And of course we have civilian control of the military....

    Or do you think Obama was in the army and not elected by the Low Information Voters??

    Parent

    Iran contra ring any bells? (5.00 / 9) (#7)
    by Molly Bloom on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 09:38:21 AM EST
    Reagan. Arms. Hostages. Boland  Amendment. Moral equivalent of founding fathers. Any of this sound even vaguely familiar ?

    Parent
    The idea and reality of a "trade" (5.00 / 5) (#8)
    by christinep on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 09:43:30 AM EST
    is nothing new.  In fact, as the Editor of the New Yorker just observed on ABC's "This Week" in the roundtable:  Israel has used trades to bring back its own, and--in so doing--released known criminals/murderers.  The fierce response against President Obama taking this very practical measure, especially in light of the ongoing drawdown in Afghanistan, is somewhat surprising ... given the alternatives (e.g., a new military intervention), the trade in this situation was the logistically responsible and morally correct action to take.

    Parent
    Ummmm.... (5.00 / 2) (#11)
    by kdog on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 10:34:24 AM EST
    There is one obvious safer American...the occupying soldier released from captivity in the swap.

    Now I don't think those 5 guys released are any threat to me, or the entire Eastern front from Maine to Florida...but if they are I'll gladly accept any risk to free a prisoner of occupation. Least we can do after we screwed the poor guy by deploying him to occupy a foreign country to risk his life for no good reason...no? Sh#t I woulda traded the entire buck fifty souls just to close Gitmo...closing that b#tch and never opening another gulag will make us all safer in the long run, as would other changes in our aggressive foreign policy.

    Parent

    Kdog (none / 0) (#31)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 11:42:42 AM EST
    what would you do with enemy combatants we capture?

    A quick bullet behind the ear??

    Because if you don't restrain them they will, as many of those already released, return to fight and kill again.

    Parent

    What (5.00 / 1) (#130)
    by lentinel on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 09:05:53 AM EST
    a giant heap of crock, Jimbo.

    If your tone weren't so nasty, it might be possible to have a dialogue.

    But all you do is shovel republican conservative talking points - without thought. Without care. Without anything.

    Parent

    A bullet behind the ear... (none / 0) (#38)
    by kdog on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 11:49:30 AM EST
    would be more humane than indefinite detention in a never ending war..but that ain't saying much.

    But yes there are no guarantees...you do what is right and come what may.  Cowardice is no excuse for Gitmo.

    Parent

    You might want to ask (none / 0) (#48)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 12:18:08 PM EST
    the person being shot before you shoot them.

    And "cowardice?" Please.

    You think jailing our enemies is worse than letting them go to attack us??

    Come on, guy.

    Parent

    Just my opinion... (none / 0) (#59)
    by kdog on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 12:35:45 PM EST
    The gitmo experience is a fate worse than death in my book...you may disagree.

    I'm not convinced the prisoners are our enemies at all...or if by our actions we made enemies out of them aka drew first blood by invading Afghanistan. Unless you have some evidence these 5 dudes, or the other 150 were directly involved in the crimes committed on 9/11/01. You take too much on faith imo Jimbo.

    Parent

    jim: What did we do with German POWs (none / 0) (#45)
    by christinep on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 12:09:54 PM EST
    as WWII ended?  If your idea is to hold them ad infinitum as we bring this 13 year war in Afghanistan to an end, perhaps you should say so.  If your real point is the war there should not end, perhaps you should say so.  (And: even from a one-time Repub viewpoint, ala Reagan and Iran/contra, what would Reagan do?  Per Molly Bloom's reminder.)

    Parent
    First of all (2.00 / 1) (#60)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 12:37:02 PM EST
    this war continues.

    The Muslim terrorists can end the war at any time.

    The German leaders were tried and many hanged by the neck until dead.

    Reagan is dead. If you have to bring him up then you have lost the argument.

    Parent

    Not all of them (5.00 / 3) (#88)
    by MKS on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 02:18:52 PM EST
    Many who were convicted at Nuremberg of actual war crimes served just a few years and were released.  

    Parent
    Saying "German leaders" is evasive (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by christinep on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 03:57:44 PM EST
    And, you know it, Jim.  Regular German soldiers constituted most of the POWs ... not the top, not the elite.  What happened to most of the German POWs (those not the elite leaders)?  

    My question is straightforward; my question also naturally followed your assertions relating to dire things in store from arranging a trade ... as if that has not happened in the  world any number of times.  And, my question regarding Reagan is an obvious one ... you surely understand that.  

    Look, if you want to play all manner of games, I cannot stop you.  If you want to have an honest conversation ... well, that is really up to you.  While I think that a number of precedents are available (and a few referred to here), it is possible that you could and would address any distinctions from the Reagan era Iran/Contra or the release of German POWs at the conclusion of WWII or the occasional trades by the acknowledged tough negotiators leading Israel.  As for me, I'm just about always open to discussion when the other person is evidencing honesty, integrity of position; but, I close that door when the challenge evidences dishonesty.  Are you willing to do something other here than lob net balls?

    Parent

    Games?? (none / 0) (#108)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 07:32:47 PM EST
    Germany was destroyed. The war was over. The average German soldier was just a soldier and just wanted to go home. The "leaders" were tried and some executed.

    Have we executed any one at GITMO????

    And the lessor "leaders" spent some time in prison. But when released they were no threat.

    Look, you cannot compare WWII to the war against the west that the Muslim terrorist is fighting now.

    But, if you want to bring WWII up, I remember that Hitler spelled it all out in a book called "Mien Kampf." Of course no one paid any attention and millions died.

    Well bin Ladin said this in his 3/97 interview with Peter Arnett, then with CNN:

    REPORTER: Mr. Bin Ladin, will the end of the United States' presence in Saudi Arabia, their withdrawal, will that end your call for jihad against the United States and against the US ?

    BIN LADIN:.... So, the driving-away jihad against the US does not stop with its withdrawal from the Arabian peninsula, but rather it must desist from aggressive intervention against Muslims in the whole world.

    Link

    Fool me once, shame one you.

    Fool me twice, shame on the Left.

    Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accept the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay-and claims a halo for his dishonesty."

    ― Robert Heinlein in Double Star



    Parent
    Oh, (5.00 / 3) (#158)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 11:54:12 AM EST
    well if you believe that then you have to believe that George W. Bush was an absolute moron for disbanding the terrorism committee that was in the White House.

    But of course when Bill Clinton was chasing him they were screaming wag the dog at the top of their lungs. Thanks for reminding us why Americans should never trust the GOP with foreign policy ever again.

    Parent

    Fooled you and your boy GWB ... (none / 0) (#113)
    by Yman on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 08:39:05 PM EST
    ... three times  (at least), given his decision to ignore explicit warnings about Al-Quaeda and focus on Saddam, instead.

    9-11 didn't happen because of "the Left".

    Oops.

    Parent

    "As for Benghazi" ... (5.00 / 2) (#13)
    by Yman on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 10:51:36 AM EST
    ... all you've given is debunked, winger fairy tales/lies.
    Politifact -
    Fact-checking Benghazi: The rhetoric hasn't matched up with reality

    Snopes - Benghazi Bungle

    ... and a few dozen other places not affiliated with Faux News or Rush.

    Parent

    Yman the Parser (1.00 / 3) (#22)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 11:33:54 AM EST
    Obama lied and men died

    And Rice told lies on the Sunday shows.

    You can tell all the BS you want but the facts remain.

    Parent

    Blaaaah blah blaah (5.00 / 4) (#24)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 11:37:00 AM EST
    Capt, glad to see (1.00 / 2) (#33)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 11:44:27 AM EST
    that you are commenting at your usual level.

    lol

    Parent

    As are you (none / 0) (#41)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 11:53:10 AM EST
    "Parser" = Truth (5.00 / 4) (#29)
    by Yman on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 11:41:16 AM EST
    Facts and truth are much harder to deal with than debunked, winger fairy tales, huh, Jim?  Explains why you never post links to your Benghazi claims that have been debunked by actual news organizations too many times to count.  C'mon Jim!  At least give us a good laugh by linking to wherever you get this silly stuff - NewsMax, Rush,  Drudge, Faux News ...

    Parent
    Yman the Parser (1.00 / 1) (#32)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 11:43:42 AM EST
    You twist and turn and follow and hector and spout BS.

    But the facts are the facts.

    Obama is a proven liar.

    Parent

    Blah, blah, blah ... (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by Yman on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 11:51:06 AM EST
    Still no links to back up your silly, fairy tales.

    Parent
    I guess you missed all the Sunday (1.00 / 1) (#49)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 12:19:21 PM EST
    shows....

    lol at your attempt to use ignorance as an excuse.

    Parent

    Right (none / 0) (#52)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 12:23:14 PM EST
    The "Sunday shows" the source of all wisdom.  

    Parent
    Sorry Capt (1.00 / 2) (#61)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 12:38:05 PM EST
    But Rice lied.

    That can't be dismissed with a snappy come back.

    Parent

    "All the Sunday shows" ... (none / 0) (#112)
    by Yman on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 08:27:52 PM EST
    ... that you still can't even find a link to.

    Heh.

    Parent

    Jim (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by MKS on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 01:17:54 AM EST
    I don't know how many times you have written, "Obama lied and men died."

    You are clearly mocking the phrase "Bush lied and men died."   But you do not know what you are talking about.  The Bush lies led to the death of many.  Even assuming Obama lied, you Fox folks are talking about a supposed lie after the fact.  

    Bottom line: Your talking point makes no sense.  

    And you are all about talking points, spouted without thought or explanation.

    You do not add new facts, new ideas, or reasoned discussion.  You only offend here.  You are better suited to right wing sites.....

    Parent

    No Worries PPJ (4.64 / 11) (#6)
    by squeaky on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 09:33:08 AM EST
    When the Muslims capture you, no one will negotiate for your release.

    Parent
    Ok. I admit that was funny. (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by oculus on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 10:56:22 AM EST
    What I wrote to Squeaky (none / 0) (#27)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 11:39:54 AM EST
    And I would not expect them to. (none / 0) (#26)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 11:39:33 AM EST
    When you join the military you forfeit your life.

    You go were you are told to go, do what your told to do.

    It is called duty. It is called courage. It is called honor.

    Three things that you have not the vaguest concept of.

    Parent

    Interesting CBS Blurb (1.00 / 1) (#12)
    by ragebot on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 10:34:42 AM EST
    A little back ground on just who Obama traded five bad guys for

    Sgt.

    Not the best example of a 'standing tall and looking good' troop.  

    Phuck You! (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 11:14:14 AM EST
    Pat Tillman felt the same way (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 11:20:06 AM EST
    Before he was killed by friendly fire

    Parent
    Really? You think so? (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Yman on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 11:33:06 AM EST
    A little back ground on just who Obama traded five bad guys for

    Sgt.

    Not the best example of a 'standing tall and looking good' troop.

    Based on that article?!?

    Sounds like a pretty good example of an armchair warrior critique.

    Parent

    Today's Army (none / 0) (#30)
    by ragebot on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 11:41:43 AM EST
    is a much different than the one I served in in 1967-68.  

    There are still unanswered questions about just what happened just before, during, and after his capture.  Maybe the emails he sent to his folks were not as bad as some sources have reported.  

    But there does seem to be some reason to think he left his duty station with out authorization.

    I suspect the more that comes out the worse he will look.

    Parent

    If --as you admit, ragebot--there are (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by christinep on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 12:17:27 PM EST
    "unanswered questions," why would you assume the worst or assume that the circumstances evidence anything less than honorable?  Why would you assume, without more, the worst of this soldier? Has there been an investigation or any fact-gathering that would lead anyone to that conclusion?

    Parent
    He either did or he did not (none / 0) (#35)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 11:48:52 AM EST
    But there does seem to be some reason to think he left his duty station with out authorization

    And his command knows the truth.

    I like to think he did have authorization but we need to know.

    Because if he did not then he is a deserter.

    And you cannot have people deserting because they disagree, or don't like where they're at...or any other reason.

    A courts martial is in order.

    Parent

    He probably didn't have authorization (5.00 / 5) (#50)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 12:20:09 PM EST
    To go off alone to take a dump Jim.  Pretty sure you know that in the military you are supposed to dig a hole and go right there in front of everyone when outside the wire. One of the less appetizing things about soldiering.  But I'm certain he isn't the only soldier who just wanted to a nice quiet BEEP alone for once.  I'm pretty sure nobody is going to throw a book at him.

    Remember the yahoos who were captured in Bosnia just drivin around without a sense of direction?

    You wingers need to calm down about this kid though before someone punches your lights out.  You're just Pi$$ed because the Kenyan Usurper gets credit for getting him returned home.

    Get your feelings straight before you go out in public talking trash though or you could need a steak for that eye.

    Parent

    MT. When he was captured (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by KeysDan on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 12:58:07 PM EST
    he was a private, and received two promotions while a POW.   Not a usual and customary procedure for a deserter, right?

    Parent
    That I don't know (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 01:09:57 PM EST
    But if he was an obvious deserter I would think his command would have disallowed such promotions.  If it was cut and dry he deserted, I really doubt it.

    A lot of soldiers write home disillusioned though.  Heck, mine did in Iraq but he still had something to do, keep everyone alive with him that he could...get them home.

    Parent

    I have to tell (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 03:26:38 PM EST
    you though Jim and the other person here and maybe some of the GOP elite seem to be the ones whining. Most of my friends who have military service feel the same way you do Tracy--he's home and that is all that matters and yes, POWs have been traded since time immemorial.

    Parent
    So nice to hear (5.00 / 4) (#100)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 04:11:32 PM EST
    It is not clear to me that he deserted, but down to the gritty, I don't care.  Too many years at war.  Osama is dead, his friends..gone too.  Nobody in Afghanistan wants to see us back there ever again except maybe one crazy loon, and there is always one crazy loon.  I live next door to one.

    Let's go home and take care of our soldiers who made it home.

    Time for new chapters, I'm ready for beginnings.  My psyche has already departed Afghanistan.


    Parent

    Unfortunately the Muslim radicals (none / 0) (#109)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 07:35:29 PM EST
    won't leave us alone.

    Parent
    Yes (5.00 / 2) (#149)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 11:12:24 AM EST
    we know. Shake a Muslim in front of you and you'll do anything. Fear rules your life. America is no longer the land of the brave to conservatives. It's the land of bedwetters.

    Parent
    Where is Don Draper (none / 0) (#115)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 09:12:49 PM EST
    Doing howling baby when you need him?

    Parent
    Maybe they did not get (none / 0) (#103)
    by KeysDan on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 04:42:20 PM EST
    the latest version of the 'Tea Party News",   Ted Cruz, Editor-in-chef---all the news that's fit to cook.  

    Parent
    Probably (none / 0) (#104)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 05:35:21 PM EST
    not. Everything is gloom and doom that comes from the tea party.

    Parent
    If that is what he (2.00 / 1) (#64)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 12:44:06 PM EST
    did then the courts martial will clear him.

    Kindly note that I said that:

    I like to think he did have authorization but we need to know.


    Parent
    He was adventurous (5.00 / 3) (#76)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 01:33:51 PM EST
    I understand that he traveled to Europe on his own in his teens, did all sorts trailblazing type things.  He just blazed a trail to take dump.  If it was a makeshift latrine, maybe other soldiers were using it too.  Maybe they just wanted one moment of peace ....you don't know.

     They are not going to court-martial him Jim, not happening.  And you're broken for even putting it out there that it is on the schedule.  Even jumping to that conclusion in public could get your teeth knocked out.  Before you are going to even lightly smear a POW you had better be real certain.

    When do we court-martial Dubya for desertion?  We have so much more evidence in his case!

    Parent

    No doubt it is (none / 0) (#36)
    by Yman on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 11:48:59 AM EST
    Yet your mere suspicions and "unanswered questions" based on unpublished emails are enough for you to try to attack this POW's character by claiming this:

    A little back ground on just who Obama traded five bad guys for

    Sgt.

    Not the best example of a 'standing tall and looking good' troop.



    Parent
    In case you missed it (2.00 / 1) (#51)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 12:23:02 PM EST
    the link goes to CBS news.

    The other to the Tennessean.

    As I noted, his command knows.

    Let's have a courts martial and find out.

    Parent

    I don't think anybody but (5.00 / 2) (#90)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 02:35:47 PM EST
    You and a couple of hacks really cares Jim.

    Parent
    In case YOU missed it (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by Yman on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 08:26:30 PM EST
    ... the link disclosed no actual evidence.

    Let's have a court martial if there's enough evidence to actually prosecute him.  Before there's any evidence, statements such as these:

    A little back ground on just who Obama traded five bad guys for

    Sgt.

    Not the best example of a 'standing tall and looking good' troop.

    ...  are nothing more than disgusting rumor-mongering by armchair warriors.

    Parent

    The Taliban reported he was discovered (none / 0) (#37)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 11:49:27 AM EST
    In a makeshift latrine.

    That was radio intercepts

    You are so broken

    Parent

    And he's been promoted twice (none / 0) (#17)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 11:17:08 AM EST
    While being a POW

    Parent
    He was promoted (2.00 / 1) (#23)
    by ragebot on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 11:35:29 AM EST
    from PFC when he was captured to Sgt. because Army regs specify normal promotion based on time when a POW.

    I saw an interesting analysis about how since we are not officially at war those regs might not apply.

    Parent

    I think you are a horrible (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 11:45:23 AM EST
    Narrow minded filthy slob.  What war did you serve in and where?

    I can't even believe you used to wear a uniform you're so inhumane to your own people, forget how you would be to other people in a war zone.  Just chilling, you're like a war crime looking for a place to happen.  The VA was harming the new vets from Iraq and Afghanistan and all you care about is that they met and meet your needs.  Something is wrong with you.  Something inside of you is horribly broken, beyond repair.

    Parent

    MT: ragebot may be all those things you say (5.00 / 4) (#55)
    by christinep on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 12:27:47 PM EST
    And, one thing we all honestly know that ragebot is: A politico ... a politico hack who doesn't identify openly as the partisan he is; but, whose every word shows it.  Like you, I find his eager willingness to kick this soldier in the face based upon nothing more than narrowly based Swiftboat-type rumor to be contemptuous.  In these moments that should be joyful for a returning soldier, his friends & family, we should be able to set aside the political drive for a little while.

    Parent
    Wondering where (none / 0) (#25)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 11:38:34 AM EST
    You could have seen that

    Parent
    He's Back..... Mullah Omar opines on swap (none / 0) (#15)
    by Mr Natural on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 11:06:32 AM EST
    Deliver me from McCains (none / 0) (#44)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 12:07:15 PM EST
    Whining and mewling.

    On the other hand, after being held without charge or trial for god only knows how many years I can't imagine why these 5 might want to "re-enter the fight" can you?

    Good grief, Capt (2.00 / 1) (#54)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 12:25:03 PM EST
    Have you even read who they are and what they did??

    Do you think that if we had immediately released them they would not have started attacking us again????

    Parent

    I know who they are and what they allegedly did (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 12:31:47 PM EST
    Do you know who we are and what we have undeniably done?

    Now please bloviate twaddle about me hating uhmerka

    Parent

    One more time (1.00 / 1) (#110)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 07:36:51 PM EST
    snarky remarks cannot hide the truth.

    Parent
    It's (none / 0) (#147)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 11:08:24 AM EST
    Hatin Murica. We cain't be pronouncing anything even near the correct way. LOL.

    Parent
    CNN reports (none / 0) (#119)
    by Slado on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 11:00:54 PM EST
    His command and unit was such a mess (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 12:22:43 AM EST
    Pardon me if I don't just buy one soldiers spouting.

    Parent
    Non-Sequitur? (none / 0) (#120)
    by squeaky on Sun Jun 01, 2014 at 11:36:47 PM EST
    Do you think that Obama should have not traded Bergdah for five gizmo detainees because some soldiers have accused him of deserting?

    Seems to me that the GOPers should be happy to stop tax dollars paying room and board for Taliban, no?

    Parent

    You do realize that Leatherman in the CNN (none / 0) (#122)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 12:33:51 AM EST
    Article was his squad leader who was demoted when photographs were published in the Guardian that showed a complete breakdown of their units discipline?  What did someone say around here earlier today....something about not exactly a model soldier or something?

    Parent
    So what? (none / 0) (#124)
    by MKS on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 01:18:55 AM EST
    Unless you have been a POW, I do not think you have any standing to criticize.

    Parent
    The John McCain's criticisms (5.00 / 1) (#143)
    by jbindc on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 10:47:12 AM EST
    Should be the only ones we've heard so far that matter.

    And no one else on this blog (as far as I know) should be taken seriously - right?

    Parent

    Okay. (none / 0) (#148)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 11:10:02 AM EST
    I get it. Conservatives would have rather left the guy with the Taliban. And that conservatives are ruled by their own fear. America is no longer the land of the brave.

    Parent
    I didn't say anything (none / 0) (#152)
    by Slado on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 11:24:38 AM EST
    I just posted the link.

    Nice job assuming my thoughts on this.

    Good news he's back.   Fair question to ask was he worth it.

    Unfair for Dem's to take such offense at even being questioned.

    Such is the zero tolerance policy on the left for criticism of Obama that isn't done by the left.

    The knee jerk defense of Obama on here is funny sometimes.

    I have no idea the details of this.   What is obvious is we traded 5 highly dangerous men for a soldier who left base under questionable circumstances.  Maybe he was just using the potty maybe he was a deserter or even a traitor as some suggest.    

    Maybe it was worth it, maybe it wasn't.   We need to know more to make that call but some on here want to act as if the actions of the administration are unquestionable.

    Hardly.

    Parent

    I don't (5.00 / 1) (#159)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 12:00:52 PM EST
    take offense at being questioned. The thing is the GOP is not questioning. They are screeching like Dick Cheney that we're all GONNA DIE because these particular people were traded.

    You can only scream it's the end of the world so many times before people just flat out quit listening to you. Everytime something happens the GOP ratches up the hysteria one more notch until it has become so ridiculous they've become a parody of themselves.

    Trading prisoners is routine. It's been done for a long, long time. And they are going to be watched. And usually prisoners that are traded are not so great but hey, at least Obama wasn't giving them arms was he?

    Parent

    do you remember the Bush years? (none / 0) (#168)
    by Slado on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 12:29:22 PM EST
    Apparently you don't because the left was no better.

    When a president is at 40% approval rating this is the deal.

    If his presidency wasn't in shambles the republicans wouldn't be piling on.

    How many scandals does one guy need before you start to wonder if he's good at his job?

    Same thing happened to Bush.

    Comes with the territory.

    Parent

    Are you kidding? (none / 0) (#176)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 01:02:10 PM EST
    The GOP has been piling on Obama since after he was in office six months. Of course, IMO he brought this on himself with his PPUS crap.

    The GOP does not recognize any Democratic president as legitimate. They believe they are entitled to the presidency. Approval ratings have nothing to do with their wailing. See Clinton, Bill with 60-70 approval ratings.

    Parent

    Both parties are partisan (none / 0) (#185)
    by Slado on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 02:15:14 PM EST
    Some of the things Dems said about Bush were frankly horrible.   Videos about him being assassinated, questions of his intelligence etc.. etc...

    Reagan wasn't treated much better.  

    Boo hoo.

    Lets stop pretending one party is meaner then the other.

    In fact it's been worse then it is today.

    Google Lincoln and criticism of him.

    Politics is a mean nasty business.   Ignoring the realities of your own side just makes you naive.

    I agree that Republicans are partisan when it comes to Obama.   So what?   Doesn't mean that sometimes their criticism is valid

    Parent

    One more thing (none / 0) (#153)
    by Slado on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 11:33:52 AM EST
    As with all things Obama its never enough to simply do something.

    They have to send Rice out to fudge the facts and put things in the best light possible.

    Why not just say that he's a soldier and the US had to get him back?  

    Why does she have to exaggerate him and the circumstances?  

    He was not captured on the battlefield unless the "battlefield" is the entire country of Afghanistan.

    Again I'm not saying it wasn't worth it.   It was a tough call but like all things this administration does its never enough to just tell it straight.  

    Parent

    I hate (5.00 / 1) (#162)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 12:06:02 PM EST
    to tell you this but he did serve with honor and distinction. I also hate to tell you this but pretty much anybody who is not court martialed gets in that category. It's a pretty generic description of even guys who are not the most outstanding soldiers.

    Parent
    What? (none / 0) (#165)
    by Slado on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 12:23:18 PM EST
    If he deserted his post he didn't serve with distinction.

    Doesn't mean we shouldn't try to get him back.

    As for the "hero" business I'll rephrase.

    He didn't "serve with distinction" as Rice claimed.

    Parent

    You obviously (none / 0) (#173)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 12:52:33 PM EST
    don't understand. He got promotions while a POW. People acusing him of desertion counts for nothing. The only thing that matters is if the US Army charged him with something which they did not.

    Like I said that is a pretty low bar to meet.

    Parent

    So if the army is covering (none / 0) (#186)
    by Slado on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 02:17:44 PM EST
    up that fact that he deserted it doesn't matter?

    The Army has a bad history of covering things up in Iraq and Afghanistan for political reasons do they not?

    Can't really understand your point.

    Correct me if I'm wrong but your saying as long as the Army says he served with distinction then he did?

    Ok.

    Parent

    Senond one more thing (none / 0) (#154)
    by Slado on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 11:37:06 AM EST
    Here's the link to the article by his fellow soldier.

    Doesn't paint a pretty picture.

    I can understand (if true) why they'd be a little bitter.

    All that being said there is still a moral and patriotic argument for getting him back.

    Just wish this administration and the military didn't feel the need to gloss over all this and pretend he's some sort of hero when (if above is true) he's not.

    Parent

    Huh? (5.00 / 1) (#161)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 12:02:07 PM EST
    I haven't heard anyone calling him a hero. I've only heard that everyone is freaking glad that he's home. No more no less.

    Parent
    I think what's going on is this: (5.00 / 1) (#164)
    by Anne on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 12:14:03 PM EST
    people associate the term "hero" with "POW."  Whether that came about because enduring the treatment POW's get is considered heroic, or whether they were captured under circumstances where they were performing some kind of heroic action, I think you'd be hard-pressed to find many people who wouldn't make the association between "POW" and "hero."

    So it isn't so much that anyone's claiming or assigning hero status to Bergdahl, rather that they are trying to get people to stop conflating those terms with him specifically; it's the only way to advocate for him to be appropriately punished by us if he was captured while deserting.

    I don't know if that helps, but that's how I've been perceiving the situation.


    Parent

    Ha (none / 0) (#156)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 11:42:35 AM EST
    Just wish this administration and the military didn't feel the need to gloss over all this and pretend he's some sort of hero when (if above is true) he's not.

    But...But but no one ever EVER said he was a hero.  Haven you heard?

    Sorry that was snark.

    Parent

    Got A Quote (none / 0) (#166)
    by squeaky on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 12:27:06 PM EST
    No one in the administration has referred to Bergdahl a hero.

    But, hey why not shift the goal posts and give credence to Slado's claim that the administration and the military is pretending the Bergdahl is some sort of hero.

    May as well... Jake Tapper did... oh, actually he did not he quoted a  vehemently anti-Obama right wing nut job site called Patriot Nation three per center

    Parent

    I didn't respond to your link (none / 0) (#155)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 11:37:50 AM EST
    And only speaking for me I have no interest in and have not written one word in defense of Obama.  If a zero tolerance policy exists it is on the right.  Zero tolerance for anything that could possibly on any conceivable level be seen as good that happens while Obama, of probably any democrat, is president.
    Your 5highly dangerous men had all, every single one, been cleared by courts to be released when arrangements could be made.  And in it of the hysteria from the right were considered pretty low level.  There are 78 more prisoners there who have also been cleared if the administration can find a way to get past McCain and his flying monkeys.

    Parent
    Can't agree (none / 0) (#167)
    by Slado on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 12:27:18 PM EST
    it cuts both ways.

    some on the right hate Obama and some on the left have no ability to accept criticisms of him.

    I think Obama is a mess and I'm so frustrated with him at this point I give him very little benifit of the doubt.

    In this case I don't really care.   He has a right to trade prisoners.  I question the cost of the exchange but he's the CIC so he gets to decide.

    Move on.  

    As for the VA, IRS, Benghazi, Syria, NSA etc... he's a complete failure as a president and I can't wait for the next person.  Even Hillary would be better.

    Parent

    Well (none / 0) (#171)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 12:45:19 PM EST
    We agree on one thing

    Parent
    CO2 (none / 0) (#169)
    by Slado on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 12:33:21 PM EST
    So despite evidence to the contrary and the reality that any reduction by us won't matter the EPA under Obama is soldiering on with it's zealotry against CO2.

    Great.   Economy be dammed.

    I hope I live long enough for the giant I told you so and Jeralyn see's fit to keep this blog going.

    I will enjoy it.

    HERO OR NOT (none / 0) (#170)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 12:42:52 PM EST
    I am not engaging in that ^^ anymore but would anyone interested in the question of Bergdahls hero status please click the google search link below and take a look at the dozens, hundreds? of headlines asking the question.
    This is the point some of are trying to make.  It is NOT wingnut framing there are headlines in that list from every political perspective asking the same question, hero or deserter/villan/traitor whatever.  
    To say no one is calling him a hero is just being intentionally obtuse.  That is not the point or the question.  The question is who cares.  I was going to post headlines but there are simply too many.  Better you look at the list yourself.

    LINK

    It All Comes From One Source: Wingnuttia (none / 0) (#175)
    by squeaky on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 01:01:22 PM EST
    Specifically Patriot Nation. Just because Google is parrot nation, does not make your point so.

    The MSM are rolling with "not a hero" quote from wingnuttia

    Source linked to above.

    Obama is a Muslim...

    About 135,000,000 results (0.26 seconds)

    Everyone is saying it... hahahaha

    Parent

    I'm pretty sure (5.00 / 2) (#182)
    by sj on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 01:45:28 PM EST
    ...your google search is as relevant to the discussion as this one. (Although admittedly I only got 91,500,000 hits and it took much longer (0.55 seconds). In other words, once again you ignored the substance of the conversation to argue with... yourself?

    Are you arguing with fantasy Anne? Fantasy CaptHowdy? (Coming soon, fantasy sj?) Because you sure have not been talking about the same thing that they are. Who knows?  

    "Hero" is exactly how it was represented on the morning "news" magazine I had on this morning. They hadn't gotten to the deserter accusations yet. I'm pretty sure nobody except you is limiting the commentary on this matter to official Administration/military remarks.

    Wev. It's so predictable the way you dumb down the comments of others so that you can make one of your even-more-boring-and-shrill-than-jim insulting screeds. And you aren't even insulting me.

    Yet.

    Anyway, there is a whole of lot of "scroll past it" that I should have done on this thread. I'm just glad the kid is coming home, and that there are five less people imprisoned indefinitely.

    Oh! Almost forgot!    hahahaha

    Parent

    So...Bergdahl's fellow soldiers are (5.00 / 4) (#184)
    by Anne on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 02:09:53 PM EST
    wingnuts?  Because the articles I'm seeing at CNN, NBC News, The Hill, CBS News, International Business Times, all quote members of his unit.

    Wingnut world is picking up on it, yes, but unless they're making up the people who are being quoted, I don't know how you can ignore that it is a topic of discussion all over the media - on the left and on the right - and the word "hero" is being used quite a bit to describe something Bergdahl isn't.

    Let's be honest, okay?  The ultimate goal for the right is to knock Obama for making the exchange, for releasing the terrorists into the world (people who are probably so broken the only people they scare are themselves).  But how could they do that if Bergdahl really was a hero in every sense of the word?  They're going after Bergdahl as one flank in the attack against Obama.

    And the mainstream, useless as ever when it comes to pretty much everything, is going along.

    I don't think we should be making people heroes or finding ways to make them cowards.  I think the man is an American soldier, the only POW left, his country owes him something, as it does all soldiers in its command, so when the opportunity to bring him home presented itself, Obama took it.  As he should have.

    Just please, for the love of God, stop acting as if the only place the hero/deserter issue is coming up is in "wingnuttia."

    Parent

    And (5.00 / 1) (#187)
    by jbindc on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 02:19:39 PM EST
    Even if those men being quoted ARE wingnuts - they actually served with Bergdahl and know a little bit more about what happened, unlike anyone here or in the media commenting.

    Parent
    Suuuuuure (none / 0) (#189)
    by squeaky on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 02:29:04 PM EST
    Interesting how defending this group ties in with your, Anne's and sj's longstanding agenda...  

    never passed up a story that makes Obama look bad.

    Parent

    Nope (5.00 / 2) (#191)
    by jbindc on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 02:31:39 PM EST
    Just adding to the evidence that you look bad and going off (once again) half-cocked with your conspiracy theories....

    Parent
    This has nothing to do with Obama (5.00 / 3) (#192)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 02:36:40 PM EST
    Nothing. Just stop.

    Parent
    Certainly True For YOu (none / 0) (#194)
    by squeaky on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 02:54:10 PM EST
    Anne, sj, and jbindc have never said a good word about the guy. Well maybe Anne almost said something nice once... the others never.

    On the other hand the tweet from Patriot Nation, picked up for Tapper's CNN article and spread throughout the MSM, has only to do with Obama.

    Parent

    Actually, yes we have (5.00 / 2) (#195)
    by jbindc on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 02:58:19 PM EST
    We have all given credit where credit was due.

    You, however, have selective memory.

    But it's kind of entertaining to watch your version of "wingnut" theories develop....

    Parent

    Very cute (none / 0) (#196)
    by sj on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 03:47:32 PM EST
    the way you took your dishonest and insulting slur about me sideways without responding directly to me. And when I say "dishonest" I mean that literally. You are being dishonest either to yourself or to the rest of the world.

    When you're not boring you're annoying. But in any case you are never surprising. At least not pleasantly so.

    Parent

    It's funny (5.00 / 2) (#193)
    by jbindc on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 02:38:50 PM EST
    Interesting how defending this group ties in with your, Anne's and sj's longstanding agenda...  

    I wasn't aware we had an agenda. I mean, we haven't had a meeting or anything....

    Parent

    From Democracy Underground (none / 0) (#188)
    by squeaky on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 02:26:41 PM EST

    Far Wing Right -- Attempt to Start Another Scandal - The Rescue of Bowe Bergdahl

    Be aware of this group:

    From reading the threads, this group is made up of a group of FAR RIGHT WING folks doing their mighty best to blame President Obama and Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel for making a decision to rescue Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl in Afghanistan.

    These folks are alleging Sgt. Bergdahl deserted his post and this action led to the deaths of these six soldiers. Upon reading the threads in this "group" it turns out that two of these soldiers were injured and died BEFORE the date this "Group" accused Sgt. Bergdahl of "deserting".

    No charge of "deserting" has been verified by anyone in the U.S. Army Chain of Command including the President --- as Commander in Chief or the Secretary of Defense -- who coordinated Sgt. Bergdahl rescue.

    This "group" as they managed to get a bit of Media attention on CNN based on a "Reporter Jake Tapper" who used a UNVERIFIED TWEET initially as a news story resource. Incredible right?

    This is an blatant attempt by the far right wing to change the narrative from the rescue of this Solider and Prisoner of War -- into something else. [emphasis mine]

    Democracy Underground

    Parent

    I'm glad you enjoyed it (none / 0) (#179)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 01:13:10 PM EST
    And good to know you consider democratic underground and media matters and several other left leaning sites wingnuttia

    Hahahahahaha

    Parent

    Quote is From Patriot Nation (none / 0) (#180)
    by squeaky on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 01:35:00 PM EST
    Not sure how to make that any clearer.

    Media Matters from your google link:

    Fox News Attacks Obama Admin's "Sense Of Pride" In Bowe Bergdahl's Rescue
    Fox's Take: Soldier's Father "Raising Some Questions" With "Koran Controversy"

    the hero word must have come from this comment:

    Ted Kennedy's SEARCH+RESCUE  Eugene_2012 * an hour ago
    That's nothing.
    Hanoi John Kerry has a Hero-in-Vietnam Photo, at the Commie Museum in Ho Chi Minh City - youtube.com/watch?v=zOpIdgl5bH...

    Checked 16 Google pages but did not see one link to DemocracyUnderground...

    Parent

    For fvcks sake (none / 0) (#181)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 01:41:42 PM EST
    it was on the second page of my iPad

    Yes, I will save you the trouble of chortling, it a CNN piece.  Posted on the DU website without comment.

    Parent

    OK (none / 0) (#183)
    by squeaky on Mon Jun 02, 2014 at 01:56:19 PM EST
    It was not on my search.. sorry to say but it clearly is on your iPad link..

    and once again the Jake Tapper headline is a direct quote from Patriot Nation Website.

    That is the source of Tapper's CNN Title, not the other way around.

    Many are flocking to social media, such as the Facebook page "Bowe Bergdahl is NOT a hero," where they share stories detailing their resentment. A number of comments on his battalion's Facebook page prompted the moderator to ask for more respect to be shown.

    Had Tapper the decency to mention in his title something like

    Fellow wing nut soldiers call Bowe Bergdahl a deserter, not a hero, and the same soldiers call Obama a Muslim who is not a US citizen.

    It would have changed the story, and pointed to the plot line, which has nothing to do with Bergdahl, and everything to do with Obama.

    Parent

    Horrible decision by Obama (none / 0) (#201)
    by Green26 on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 06:11:53 PM EST
    Went against policy of not negotiating with terrorists. Yes, there have been exceptions--although I don't recall any like this.

    Will likely make US soldiers and citizens more vulnerable to taking by terrorists, for later trading.

    Gave up way too much, 5 high value Taliban, for this "soldier".

    Some of the 5 will likely get back into the fight, as soon as they, is my view (and that's supported by prior US assessment of them).

    Some Afghan people are upset that the US thinks so little of them, that the US was willing to made this trade (and effectively release the 5).

    Bergdahl was a deserter, or went AWOl. Left his gun/gear behind, left with a compass and knife, and had mailed much of his stuff to Idaho. About 6 soldiers were killed looking for him, according to press reports. Another soldier is now in a wheel chair. The Taliban knew the US would be looking and were ready for that, and the Taliban starting shelling the FOB.

    Many in the US military are upset with the trade, including my son who was in a sister unit in Alaska. His friends spent the summer "eating rockets" and being attacked occasionally.
    When Hagel announced the swap at Baghran/Afghanistan as a great development, his audience was completely silent.

    Obama ignored the law on this type of release.

    Hagel foolishly argued that the US wasn't negotiating with terrorists, because Qatar had been the intermediary negotiator.

    I think polls will show the country is solidly against Obama's move.

    While it's nice to get any American home, this was not the kid to give away the store for, in my view.

    Google this youtube video if you want a look at (none / 0) (#202)
    by Green26 on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 06:47:21 PM EST
    the base in question and the Afghan war. A number of boys died in the this battle. These were all my son's buddies.

    The Battle Of COP Zerok Afghanistan July 4th 2009


    Should have said "similar to" base in (none / 0) (#203)
    by Green26 on Tue Jun 03, 2014 at 10:27:08 PM EST
    question, which was OP Mest, which is also in Paktika Province, which is where the base in the video was.

    Question for Donald on post 204 (none / 0) (#205)
    by Green26 on Wed Jun 04, 2014 at 06:24:04 PM EST
    Have presidents negotiated with terrorist groups for prisoners exchanges?

    When, in recent history, has the US negotiated an exchange of prisoners, as opposed to something financially?

    Any examples involving a 5 for 1 exchange?