Saturday Afternoon Open Thread

3 weeks to college football!

Open Thread.

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    Oh, brother. (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by oculus on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 06:27:07 PM EST

    Eventually (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by CoralGables on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 06:59:42 PM EST
    all Gators surface

    Segue: Gator (5.00 / 5) (#31)
    by oculus on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 01:47:37 AM EST

              "Woman stops gator attack with a small Beretta  pistol."

    This is a story of self control and marksmanship by  a brave, cool-headed
    woman with a small pistol against a fierce predator.  What is the smallest
    caliber that you would trust to protect  yourself?

    A Beretta Jetfire testimonial.

    Here is her story:

    While out walking along the edge of a bayou just  below Houma, Louisiana
    with my soon to be ex-husband discussing property  settlement and other divorce
    issues, we were surprised by a huge 12-ft. alligator  suddenly emerging from
    the murky water and charging us  with its large jaws wide open.
    She must have  been protecting her nest because she was extremely

    If I  had not had my little Beretta Jetfire .25 caliber pistol with me, I
    would  not be here today!

    Just one shot to my estranged husband's knee cap was  all it took.The gator
    got him easily and I was able to escape by just  walking away at a brisk
    It's one of the best pistols in my  collection! Plus ... the amount I saved
    in lawyer's fees was worth more  than the purchase price of this gun.

    ------ End of Forwarded Message


    Old Jokes Never Die -- (none / 0) (#71)
    by jayjerome on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 02:20:23 PM EST
    Heard that before, but with a man pulling the trigger...

    Best comments Evah! (none / 0) (#12)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 07:47:44 PM EST
    OMG (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by shoephone on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 06:30:27 PM EST
    Posting comment just to see if this is a figment of my imagination.

    Spent the afternoon (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by Repack Rider on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 06:36:52 PM EST
    ...with some of my HS classmates as we plan our 50th year reunion.  I contributed the theme for the party, "Seniors Again!"

    Done with that, I'm headed for my studio where some of my friends and I will drink some beer, smoke some weed, and I will play my guitar really loud.

    Tomorrow I'll go for a mountain bike ride.

    Aging is not what I expected it to be.

    Sounds to me like (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by shoephone on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 06:42:06 PM EST
    you're making the best of it! You old codger.

    LOL! (5.00 / 4) (#23)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 10:53:48 PM EST
    "Mom! Grandma and Grandpa are smoking pot again!"

    As my late boss used to quip: (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 10:50:25 PM EST
    "Don't ever question life -- just live it to its fullest."

    No doubt, you'd have appreciated the local TV ad that a classic rock station here in Honolulu came up with a few years ago, in which some teens who are waiting at a bus stop and listening to some hip-hop are suddenly assaulted aurally by a passing convertible with its top down, being driven by a 50-something man who's blasting the Rolling Stones' "Gimme Shelter" on his car stereo -- "Oooh, children, it's just a shot away, it's just a shot away ..." -- with the caption below reading, "We're definitely not your kids' favorite station."

    It still makes me chuckle when I think about it.



    Just remember (4.50 / 2) (#13)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 07:49:34 PM EST
    Getting old ain't for sissies!

    Getting old may not be for sissies (none / 0) (#14)
    by ragebot on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 08:14:16 PM EST
    but it sure beats the alternative.

    That depends n/t (none / 0) (#43)
    by Nemi on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 06:30:51 AM EST
    Since the alternative (none / 0) (#76)
    by ragebot on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 04:16:33 PM EST
    to getting old is death it does not seem like a tough choice to me.

    But to others (none / 0) (#83)
    by Nemi on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 06:11:54 PM EST
    death can still be preferable to life and the reason why Euthanasia exists.

    50 year reunion!! Great.. (none / 0) (#51)
    by Cashmere on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 09:39:57 AM EST
    You seem to know how to celebrate this in style  :)

    I can't wait! (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Teresa on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 06:38:20 PM EST
    I'll have to wait until about 2015 to be competitive with BTD's Gators again, but my Vols are going to get back where we used to be.

    Oculus - you made me bust out laughing!

    Our local radio stations start the countdown at 100 days & we're at 28 and the guys are practicing in this miserable heat. I don't know how they do it since sitting in the stands would be hard enough.

    I love College football too.. (none / 0) (#52)
    by Cashmere on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 09:51:09 AM EST
    Oregonian, so most here are Duck fans (including our two sons, one a graduate and the other a senior in Eugene)...  But my heart belongs to the Oregon State Beavers (which means I am typically heartbroken...), but Oh well, I love my Beavs.

    I work with many gators.  Hi tech Silicon Forest attracts many gator PhDs.  They are EVERYWHERE!  I usually root for the Gators in the SEC (my boss is a Gator)...


    Welcome back. (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 07:12:12 PM EST
    You were missed -- even by me. ;-D

    The first football-related question posed to you is this: What odds are you offering that Lane Kiffin will survive the season as the USC Trojans' head coach?

    GO DUCKS... (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by fishcamp on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 07:37:00 PM EST
    Have you seen pictures (none / 0) (#17)
    by CoralGables on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 08:40:25 PM EST
    of their new football complex. It's like the Ritz Carlton of football. Compliments of Phil Knight of course.

    I have... and EVERYTHING sports related (none / 0) (#54)
    by Cashmere on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 10:03:33 AM EST
    in Eugene is compliments of Phil Knight.  Being a Beaver fan, I cannot stand it (even though we have given plenty of $$ to Oregon with two sons that are or have attended U of O).

    I wonder if the new coach for the Ducks will prove to be as good as Chip Kelly.  Personally, I am glad Kelly is gone (I never could stand his arrogance... but I am pretty sure a big part of my attitude was sour grapes).  Will be interesting to see how Kelly does in the NFL.


    Be still my heart...can it really be? (5.00 / 5) (#10)
    by Anne on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 07:16:44 PM EST
    All I can say, BTD, is that your presence here would go a long way to bringing the left-leaning balance of this place back.

    And it really, really needs to come back.

    Great to see you!  I have hope.

    Please distinguish TL from commenters (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 01:15:50 PM EST
    TalkLeft has never changed. Readers come and go. Commenters don't speak for TalkLeft.

    Yeah, they Just Show Up... (5.00 / 2) (#122)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 02:41:23 PM EST
    ...like some kinda right wing magic.

    When did it ever leave? (none / 0) (#20)
    by AmericanPsycho on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 09:59:50 PM EST
    I don't remember TL swinging to the right. Is that what you're saying?

    I think Anne is referring ... (5.00 / 4) (#21)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 10:34:43 PM EST
    ... to the fact that TL has had a lot of new posters since the advent of the neverending saga of Herr Zimmermeister -- and they haven't exactly been the type who'd be considered part of the ACLU's donor base.

    I am a new poster since the ZImmerman case.. (5.00 / 6) (#50)
    by Cashmere on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 09:32:54 AM EST
    My political views are very liberal.  I had and still have a keen interest in the Zimmerman case and I appreciated the wealth of information on this site.  The forum is excellent.  It was the only place I found to have a rational discussion.

    I also do not mind at all if other posters do not lean politically as left as my husband and I do..  leaves room for debate.

    I find it odd that so many left leaning posters were so turned off by the Zimmerman discussion that they have chosen not to post here, if that's what you are saying.  Does everyone just want new posters that parrot their POV?    Yes, Jeralyn has many rules and I discovered them as well as I made a few posts that I realize were out of line and they were deleted.  I have since not done this and have had no problems.  I understand that it is Jeralyn's site, with the help of BTD, and they have every right to delete inappropriate comments, force the comments to stay focused on the topic of the post, and ban posters when needed.

    Just my POV.  I hope to stick around and post on many topics here and I wish the "regulars" would be more inviting to the newbies, instead of complaining left and right about how things have changed here.  We are lucky to have such an excellent board.


    Speaking for myself, posting on the (none / 0) (#70)
    by scribe on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 01:27:14 PM EST
    Zimmerman case was an exercise in futility.  Too many of the "right-leaning" people, really those who were in the camp better described as "we'll give him a fair trial in the morning and hang him out back of the courthouse in the afternoon because everyone knows he's guilty", combined a decided level of knowing in advance what was the Truth and would be the Result, with an exceptional level of inability to countenance the possibility that someone else might see things differently than they, a marked unwillingness to avoid ad hominem argument, and a pack mentality.  They make noise in inverse proportion to the wisdom behind their speech.

    Life's too short to spend on trying to educate the aggressively stupid, the willfully ignorant, or to shout down the morons.  

    So I spent my time on other, more productive, more pleasing pursuits.

    I have no end of respect for those who kept going "once more into the breach" to dial back and correct the try-'im-and-hang-'im crowd.  I have tried and have given up on that, leaving what reaction to them I do have to hoping the try-'im-and-hang-'ims someday need a criminal defense attorney, particularly if they are wrongfully charged.  That might be the only way those type of folks will learn.


    To be more accurate (5.00 / 4) (#124)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 03:14:40 PM EST
    From the very beginning, there were plenty of people on both sides of the imaginary aisle who talked as if they knew the Truth, the Whole Truth, and nothing but the revealed Truth about the Zimmerman case.

    The claim that it was only those people who thought Zimmerman was in the wrong who were irrationally invested in the case is just a continuation of the one-sided tunnel vision so many were blinded by.  


    thank you for pointing this out. (none / 0) (#126)
    by Anne on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 03:20:35 PM EST
    I thought about doing it, but couldn't muster the energy, and didn't want to risk a food fight.

    With nearly universal applicability (5.00 / 2) (#127)
    by Edger on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 03:21:47 PM EST
    one of your poetic sentences should be quoted often by many in the future...

    "They make noise in inverse proportion to the wisdom behind their speech."

    Heh. Have you considered writing sonnets, scribe?


    I don't see this a political ideology (3.50 / 2) (#143)
    by Mikado Cat on Tue Aug 06, 2013 at 06:35:54 AM EST
    if your source of news was one who ran with the child vs mugshot and Crump Julison narrative and you were not immediately offended by the bias, that initial views seems to stick with most people and nothing shakes it. Political polarization seems to attach to everything, but I see it as grow around a core belief, not the other way around.

    Here is a typical newspaper headline from 4/4/12
    http://www.examiner.com/article/why-republicans-stand-with-george-zimmerman-and-want-travyon-martin- off-tv


    Dang (5.00 / 2) (#147)
    by sj on Tue Aug 06, 2013 at 11:13:19 AM EST
    BTD must have forgotten to specify Zimmerman-free. That must be it.

    MIkado Cat, weren't you asked to leave? (5.00 / 1) (#149)
    by shoephone on Tue Aug 06, 2013 at 11:50:27 AM EST
    The "chattering" sanction was applied. (none / 0) (#150)
    by oculus on Wed Aug 07, 2013 at 12:44:52 AM EST
    Is there a cat type called "Mikado"?  Lis it British?

    I was never (none / 0) (#152)
    by Mikado Cat on Fri Aug 09, 2013 at 03:50:08 PM EST
    ordered to stay in my truck, only told we don't need you to do that.

    Mikado is Gilbert and Sullivan, whose work I enjoy.


    As soon as (1.00 / 1) (#93)
    by Mikado Cat on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 03:28:09 AM EST
    the ACLU starts supporting all the amendments, I'll start supporting the ACLU.

    I think its time to put some reasonable restrictions, licensing, back ground checks for the heavily abused first amendment.


    Sure, why not? (5.00 / 3) (#109)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 12:15:43 PM EST
    Let's start by amending your First Amendment rights.

    After all, if your changes to the First Amendment will result in free speech being limited strictly to only those points of view with which one agrees, I'd further amend your amendment by banishing all viewpoints based upon right-wing mythmaking, AM squawk radio strawmen, and personal experiences garnered from living in either of Rush Limbaugh's or Rand Paul's parallel universes.


    Sorry, I used Sarcasm (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by Mikado Cat on Tue Aug 06, 2013 at 06:14:30 AM EST
    I am very fond of all amendments.

    Free speech is at perhaps its lowest ebb. While all are allowed to speak, effective speech is highly eroded by vastly unequal ability to be heard.

    Look at the icon for support TalkLeft (tiny megaphone, big megaphone), how is it free speech if opposing views have the ability to drown out your voice with ease?

    The majority of blogs moderate on point of view, CNN, NPR, CTH. Especially frustrating with NPR is the practice of "invisible" time shift moderation of opposing views. Your post is delayed sometimes by hours pushing the comment outside the active reading window of the thread, but a later reader will see no act of censorship, most will never see the post.

    I am about as much of a capitalist as anyone can be, but I am very troubled by news controlled by profit, its inherently corrupting. New media is still evolving, so maybe it will shift to the good at some point.


    oy (5.00 / 2) (#111)
    by sj on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 12:22:45 PM EST
    Wait til J starts focusing on Hernandez. (none / 0) (#28)
    by oculus on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 01:38:08 AM EST
    ... because really, is there anyone who's more insufferably boorish than New England Patriots fans?

    Yes--Gator Fans ;) (none / 0) (#151)
    by indy in sc on Fri Aug 09, 2013 at 12:29:01 PM EST
    and Hernandez brings out both!

    I doubt I'll be addressing Hernandez (none / 0) (#65)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 01:12:07 PM EST
    It hasn't interested me as yet.

    I would (none / 0) (#36)
    by lentinel on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 04:04:31 AM EST
    be glad to see BTD's posts once again.

    But I find it difficult to describe them as left-leaning - with support for the war in Afghanistan and all... Not to mention the many references to Obama as a "rock star"....


    I would just be nice to have (5.00 / 4) (#47)
    by Anne on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 08:38:10 AM EST
    some focus on something other than guns and you-know-who; BTD's overall take may not be as far to the left as you or I might place ourselves, but the general atmosphere would be decidedly more left than that which we've been experiencing.

    Which is not to say that I don't fully expect to disagree with him from time to time, but I'm also pretty sure that BTD is unlikely to put up with the kind of right-wing swill that's been more prevalent in the comments, even in the open threads.


    Well (5.00 / 4) (#72)
    by CoralGables on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 02:39:36 PM EST
    BTD starts an open thread and already he who shall not be named has been named 6 times. It's like a fungus that won't go away.

    It's safe to say it's not safe for BTD to resurface yet. He put up the periscope but perilous times are still here. Dive Dive Dive.


    Then isn't torpedoing fair game? (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by oculus on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 03:27:01 PM EST
    I guess... (none / 0) (#48)
    by lentinel on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 09:30:04 AM EST
    With me, it is my left-wing swill that he doesn't put up with...

    Oh, for crying out loud! (5.00 / 3) (#37)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 04:32:24 AM EST
    What I find even more interesting is that you would leap so baldly to such an insulting and hyperbolic conclusion.

    Since I'm of German-Irish descent and have a German surname -- as do also millions of other Americans, I might add -- the very notion that a benign play upon (or use of) a German word / name in everyday banter would be disingenuously construed as somehow indicative of Nazi-baiting on my part, quite honestly didn't even enter my mind.

    But it sure did yours, apparently. And that would imply to me that either you're perhaps trying to pick a fight with me, or that your knowledge of Germans and German-Americans is at best embarrassingly superficial -- or both.


    I didn't (5.00 / 2) (#42)
    by lentinel on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 05:59:36 AM EST
    infer from your renaming of George Zimmerman to "Herr Zimmermeister" that you were calling him a nazi...

    but I honestly don't know what you were in fact referencing....


    it was an inappropriate name (none / 0) (#66)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 01:13:33 PM EST
    to use for Zimmerman.

    And there's the 'other' football game (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by Nemi on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 07:09:58 AM EST
    soccer and there's "Mister Flo", who started 'Amandla' a German-run football school in a Cape Town township.

    Nowadays some 2,500 children, a third of them girls, come to the field every week. They are organized into 135 teams, with each team practicing twice a week. Some have been in the program for years. And that is what distinguishes Amandla from many other organizations: the coaches get to build up real relationships with their charges. They don't just know which players are particularly fast runners. They also know who is having problems at home or in school, and in addition to talking to the children about these problems, they also listen to them.

    Zech points to a muscular young man in a yellow shirt. "None of this would work without guys like Bota." The 29-year-old is one of the 20 Amandla coaches. He wears a whistle around his neck, but until recently he was still carrying a pistol in his belt. His arms are covered with the scars of knife wounds. "Bota is a fluke," says Zech.

    The former gangster has been enrolled in the state-approved "Youth Leadership Programme" since October. Over a two-year period, young people with strong leadership skills are trained to become positive role models for the children. While they might have been afraid of Bota in the past, they are now drawn to him. After passing practice, he explains to them why one always has a choice in life. He ends many sentences with the words: "You understand?" -- as if he were handing a relay baton to the children. "Yes, coach!" they shout in response.

    A great story and in stark contrast to what FIFA, with its much bigger budget, has accomplished.

    AN AXE LENGTH AWAY, vol. 88 (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by Dadler on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 09:31:06 AM EST
    A light Sunday funny: "This Day in Car Stereo History." (link)

    And the rest from last week, in case you missed any.

    Vol. 87
    Vol. 86
    Vol. 85
    Vol. 84
    Vol. 83
    Vol. 82

    AN AXE LENGTH AWAY (a comic a day)

    Peace out, my friends.

    Spy tools are not being used widely enough (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by Politalkix on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 10:48:47 AM EST
    link. The linked article from the NYT provides counter arguments in the privacy Vs security debate.

    "The recent disclosures of agency activities by its former contractor Edward J. Snowden have led to widespread criticism that its surveillance operations go too far and have prompted lawmakers in Washington to talk of reining them in. But out of public view, the intelligence community has been agitated in recent years for the opposite reason: frustrated officials outside the security agency say the spy tools are not used widely enough."

    I miss BTD so much I pledge to fully read (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by ruffian on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 11:08:10 AM EST
    every football post as well as his political gems.

    I obviously get a lot out of Jeralyn's posts too, just miss the different voices...and am too lazy to stray much to other sites.

    Well anyone may read those football posts. (none / 0) (#62)
    by oculus on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 12:50:39 PM EST
    But I'm thinking we'd best commit to understanding those wagers.  

    I struggle with that (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 12:58:16 PM EST
    Because as soon as I understand I will start betting, without betting it's mostly useless information.  

    Oh c'mon, that is asking the impossible! (none / 0) (#79)
    by ruffian on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 04:38:01 PM EST
    It starts scaring me (none / 0) (#80)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 04:42:46 PM EST
    When I understand what he's basing his bets on in soccer.  Husband leaving for Korea, could be a bad checking account trainwreck in my future :)  Careful Tracy

    Oh yeah, that is bad all around (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by ruffian on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 04:56:18 PM EST
    Just do some fantasy betting, trying to beat BTD's take.

    Patti Smith's "Just Kids" (5.00 / 3) (#60)
    by ruffian on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 11:29:50 AM EST
    I have been listening to the audiobook, which she reads, and feel like I have spent 2 weeks with a very good friend.  Absolutely beautiful book. Anyone that loves NYC and/or art should read it immediately.

    Amash: Snowden is a whistleblower (5.00 / 3) (#61)
    by MO Blue on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 12:12:44 PM EST
    Rep. Justin Amash (R-Mich.) said on Sunday that he believes National Security Agency leaker Edward Snowden is a whistleblower, not a traitor.

    "He may be doing things overseas that we would find problematic, that we would find dangerous," Amash said on Fox News Sunday. "But as far as Congress is concerned, sure he is a whistleblower. He told us what we need to know."
    "Without his doing what he did, members of Congress would not really have known about it," the Republican lawmaker said. link

    Representative (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by lentinel on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 04:23:42 PM EST
     Justin Amash (R-Mich.) said on Sunday
    "... as far as Congress is concerned, sure he (Snowden) is a whistleblower. He told us what we need to know."
    "Without his doing what he did, members of Congress would not really have known about it..."

    But, not so long ago,

    Obama told us that

    "The programs are secret in the sense that they are classified. They are not secret, in that every member of Congress has been briefed," ..."Your duly elected representatives have consistently been informed," Obama said.

    To me, this statement by Obama is mind-boggling in its duplicity.

    If we had a real functioning press, Obama should be grilled on his assertion. Either that, or the press should be going to "every member of Congress" and asking them if they had indeed been informed. If they say that hadn't, they should put it to Obama. If they say that they had, they should be asked why they didn't feel it incumbent upon them to inform the people whom they are allegedly representing what the hell is going on.

    Either way, we have a government that is anything but representative. The "intelligence" community (and I use that word somewhat sarcastically) is running the show. Obama is either clueless or useless, and the Congress is but a puppet show and a way for some millionaires to make even more money.


    More from Amash (5.00 / 3) (#78)
    by MO Blue on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 04:35:02 PM EST
    AMASH: Well, we don't know the facts about what he's doing and what kind of information he's given up. But I certainly think that without his doing what he did, members of Congress would not have really known about it. There's allegations that this information was given to Congress. Of course, Congress passed the Patriot Act. They passed the FISA Amendments Act.

    But members of Congress were not really aware on the whole about what these programs were being used for, the extent to which they were being used. Members of the Intelligence Committee were told. But members who are rank and file members really didn't have the information. link

    Not (none / 0) (#84)
    by lentinel on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 07:06:30 PM EST
    exactly what Mr. Obama told us:

    "...every member of Congress has been briefed..."

    Where is Helen Thomas when we need her?


    More from Greenwald (5.00 / 7) (#85)
    by MO Blue on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 07:14:49 PM EST
    Guardian columnist Glenn Greenwald on Sunday chided the U.S. government for claiming it had provided "robust oversight" of the National Security Agency (NSA) even though members of Congress were forced to go to his paper to learn about secret programs that gather data on American citizens.
    "We keep hearing that there's all kinds of robust oversight by Congress," Greenwald said, adding that lawmakers had provided "very detailed letters trying to get this information and they're being blocked from getting it and they've said, and other members have said that they are forced to learn about what the NSA is doing from what they're reading in our reporting."

    "I think the most amazing thing, one of the most amazing things in this whole episode, Martha, there is a 2011 opinion, 86 pages long from the FISA court, that ruled that much of what the NSA is doing which is spying on American citizens is both unconstitutional in violation of the Fourth Amendment and illegal, a violation of the statute," he continued. "This opinion remains a complete secret. The FISA court has said they have no objection to having it released, but the Obama administration insists it has to be secret." link

    I don't see how the administration can (5.00 / 6) (#86)
    by Anne on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 07:35:26 PM EST
    keep claiming that Congress has been briefed, when members are coming forward to relate that that is not the case, that they can't even get the information when they affirmatively ask for it.

    I think the incident that just floored me was this one:

    On June 19, Grayson wrote to the House Intelligence Committee requesting several documents relating to media accounts about the NSA. Included among them were FISA court opinions directing the collection of telephone records for Americans, as well as documents relating to the PRISM program.

    But just over four weeks later, the Chairman of the Committee, GOP Rep. Mike Rogers, wrote to Grayson informing him that his requests had been denied by a Committee "voice vote".

    In a follow-up email exchange, a staff member for Grayson wrote to the Chairman, advising him that Congressman Grayson had "discussed the committee's decision with Ranking Member [Dutch] Ruppersberger on the floor last night, and he told the Congressman that he was unaware of any committee action on this matter." Grayson wanted to know how a voice vote denying him access to these documents could have taken place without the knowledge of the ranking member on the Committee, and asked: "can you please share with us the recorded vote, Member-by-Member?" The reply from this Committee was as follows:

       Thanks for your inquiry. The full Committee attends Business Meetings. At our July 18, 2013 Business Meeting, there were seven Democrat Members and nine Republican Members in attendance. The transcript is classified."

    To date, neither Griffith nor Grayson has received any of the documents they requested. Correspondence between Grayson and the Committee - with names of staff members and email addresses redacted - can be read here.

    Denial of access for members of Congress to basic information about the NSA and the FISC appears to be common. Justin Amash, the GOP representative who, along with Democratic Rep. John Conyers, co-sponsored the amendment to ban the NSA's bulk collection of Americans' phone records, told CNN on July 31: "I, as a member of Congress, can't get access to the court opinions. I have to beg for access, and I'm denied it if I - if I make that request."

    Representative Griffith:

    "I did not take an oath to defer to the Intelligence Committee," Rep. Griffith told me. "My oath is to make informed decisions, and I can't do my job when I can't get even the most basic information about these programs."

    I think Mr. Obama has much to answer for; I look forward to that day, though I won't be holding my breath waiting.


    Obama (5.00 / 2) (#94)
    by lentinel on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 06:55:32 AM EST
    does have a lot to answer for...

    but no one seems to be asking him.

    We need frequent press conferences - and reporters in the mold of Helen Thomas to put it directly to him. You know - the "transparency" that Obama mentions from one side of his mouth from time to time.

    I suspect a wag-the-dog moment, but the US is claiming that Al Q is about to mount a major attack. Whenever an administration does this, it is win-win for them. If there is an attack, they show how great their intelligence service is - (although they can provide no details about where or when) - and if there is no attack, they can claim to have thwarted it - with the bonus of shifting all conversation from the NSA to Al Q.

    This probably sounds like paranoia to some, but that is what W. did many times - and as we know, Obama is following in all too many of his footsteps.


    Fascinating allies, uh? (none / 0) (#63)
    by christinep on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 12:57:13 PM EST
    Yep, strange bedfellows (5.00 / 4) (#68)
    by shoephone on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 01:23:10 PM EST
    But the really important part of his statement is that, if not for Snowden's revelations, Congress would not know about it. Which is another way of saying that the NSA and the WH are just fibbing when they claim Congress not only knew about it, but had oversight of it.

    Yes his bill to (5.00 / 2) (#69)
    by MO Blue on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 01:23:52 PM EST
    limit NSA bulk surveillance was supported by a majority of the Democratic Representatives in the House.

    Democrats voted to limit the surveillance 111 to 83 with 6 Dems not voting. 94 Republicans voted yea also.


    In the calm before (5.00 / 3) (#95)
    by CoralGables on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 10:49:34 AM EST
    12 names leaking out (none / 0) (#119)
    by CoralGables on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 01:13:06 PM EST
    All expected to be 50 games.
    No big names that weren't expected:
    Nelson Cruz - Rangers
    Jhonny Peralta - Tigers
    Everth Cabrera - Padres
    Francisco Cervelli - Yankees  
    Antonio Bastardo - Phillies
    Jordany Valdespin - Mets
    Minor leaguers Jesus Montero, Cesar Puello, Sergio Escalona, and Fernando Martinez
    Free agents Jordan Norberto and Fautino De Los Santos.

    Ryan Braun already agreed to 65 games.
    And of course Arod who is expected to get 214 games and appeal. Official word still expected to come at 3pm


    Peralta (none / 0) (#120)
    by jbindc on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 01:37:38 PM EST
    Isn't going to appeal and should be back in time for the playoffs.

    Secret DEA unit passing surveillance off (5.00 / 3) (#96)
    by shoephone on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 10:55:01 AM EST
    to other agencies in effort to start investigations of Americans -- and covering their tracks so that they don't leave any fingerprints on their activities.

    Although these cases rarely involve national security issues, documents reviewed by Reuters show that law enforcement agents have been directed to conceal how such investigations truly begin - not only from defense lawyers but also sometimes from prosecutors and judges.

    The undated documents show that federal agents are trained to "recreate" the investigative trail to effectively cover up where the information originated, a practice that some experts say violates a defendant's constitutional right to a fair trial. If defendants don't know how an investigation began, they cannot know to ask to review potential sources of exculpatory evidence - information that could reveal entrapment, mistakes or biased witnesses.

    "I have never heard of anything like this at all," said Nancy Gertner, a Harvard Law School professor who served as a federal judge from 1994 to 2011. Gertner and other legal experts said the program sounds more troubling than recent disclosures that the National Security Agency has been collecting domestic phone records. The NSA effort is geared toward stopping terrorists; the DEA program targets common criminals, primarily drug dealers.

    "It is one thing to create special rules for national security," Gertner said. "Ordinary crime is entirely different. It sounds like they are phonying up investigations."

    Someone remind me: who are the criminals?

    According to bmaz - and maybe (5.00 / 2) (#101)
    by Anne on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 11:35:01 AM EST
    Jeralyn can weigh in when she gets a chance - this kind of thing has been going on for quite some time, like since back in the 90's:

    Link to bmaz.

    Yes. Exactly. And, as the "senior DEA officials" admitted, this, too, is not new in the least. Again, the Reuter's quote of the incredulous former Judge Nancy Gertner aside, any number of longtime members of NACDL could have told you all of this at any point in time since the mid 90′s.

    The takeaway that is important from the Reuters piece is that all the frothing about "golly, what if those NSA capabilities bleed out of terrorism and into traditional criminal cases" is nuts. It already is, and has been for a long time. It is the "clean teaming" of criminal prosecutions. And it is a direct and tangible fraud upon defendants, the courts, Due Process and several other important Constitutional concepts.

    It is not a matter of what if it happens, it IS happening.

    I guess the question is, what's going to be done about it - anything?


    Only if Congress decides to care (none / 0) (#104)
    by shoephone on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 11:51:07 AM EST
    about the constitution. What the DEA's SOD unit is doing is a violation of the sixth amendment. So, we can rack up a whole list of constitutional violations by the state -- police actions perpetrated against people engaging in peaceful protest, the NSA's warrantless, unaccountable vacuuming up of everyone's personal communications, and the DEA, the DOJ, and all the spy agencies covering up evidence that should be available to defendants at trial -- and then wait for those whose salaries we pay and whose healthcare we cover to get a clue.

    In interesting turn of events, the GOP-controlled House very nearly passes the Amash amendment, while the Democratic-controlled Senate admonishes us to sit down and shut up about all the revelations of crimes against the people.

    And, conveniently, they all go on vacation for the next five weeks.


    Actually it's the GOP that voted it down (none / 0) (#105)
    by CoralGables on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 11:58:22 AM EST
    in the House:

    Ayes 94 Noes 134

    Ayes 111 Noes 83


    But they almost passed it -- got 94 votes (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by shoephone on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 12:16:07 PM EST
    The fact that 94 Republicans voted for the amendment is a monumental shift in hardcore national security policy by them, IMO. And that Dems Pelosi and Hoyer voted against is important to note, as well.

    Resurgence or shift in policy (none / 0) (#121)
    by christinep on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 02:36:31 PM EST
    Recently,  it appears that a relatively dormant brand of Repub isolationism has reemerged.  Highlighted by Rand Paul (& even mre pronounced by the father, Ron Paul), this is the brand from earlier in the 20th century that championed no involvement -- and that includes no foreign food or other humanitarian aid-- a number of the newer House Repubs eschew any outside intervention by the US and --ala Pat Buchanan--support increasing barriers against all outsiders (read: very anti-immigration reform.). Part & parcel of the isolationism reemergence is a rejection of what they regard as national security over-reach.

    This particular group of Repubs  make up the growing Libertarian wing of the party.  As some of us would say, the domestic side of that coin is an I-take-care-of-me & mine-and-the-rest-of-you-get-off-my-property-&-leave-me-alone.
    iOW, these are the base component of the Tea Party.  They do not want Big Government intervention in anything...for them, federal health programs, regulated school programs, civil rights laws are ver unacceptable.  (Recall the father & son Pauls dilemma on Civil Rights legislation.)

    So, yes, it is not unexpected that Paul-type Libertarian is feeling it's oats these days ... And, that includes Cong. Amash who is aspiring to be a recognized spokesman in that regard.  I referred to "fascinating allies" above.  Here, I would only point out that such alliance could become quite complex & not at all inviting overall very soon.


    Pelosi/Hoyer=Bachman/Boehner (5.00 / 2) (#123)
    by shoephone on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 02:57:03 PM EST
    on this issue. Isn't that interesting? "Fascinating allies" indeed.

    And as far as politicians looking out for their own personal interest, can we add DiFi to your list? She rakes in millions from defense and security donors, and she and her husband have personally benefited from multi-billion dollar trade deals and defense contracts that she steered towards his businesses.


    All politicians look out for their interests (none / 0) (#129)
    by christinep on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 06:05:31 PM EST
    For me, the question has always been whether an individual politician also has an interest in the country & its citizens.  To that end, the overall vote pattern is most important to me in terms of a number of both foreign & domestic categories.  Just as it is difficult (if not impossible) to find someone who fully reflects what I think & believe, so I think that most face choices about what is a sufficient line of agreement.  Answer: For the most part, I find the voting records of Pelosi, Hoyer, & Feinstein sufficiently liberal (or, more accurately, moderate-to-liberal on a continuum of present-day US issues.)

     In that context, I expect Congressmen/Congresswomen to vote with re-election, etc. in mind; and, that means voting their interests.  Pelosi represents a district that would expect her to vote as she did on the issue at hand.  As Democratic leaders, she & Hoyer have always demonstrated their ability to count (better than Boehner's problems lately... see, e.g., the Transportation bill that was withdrawn.)  From a poli-sci 201 quick look, they could/should vote their constituencies and be confident that their votes would not change the outcome ... vote counting & acting accordingly is a long-used pragmatic "have one's cake & eat it too" mechanism.  Practical politics; it works.


    Hoyer is no liberal (5.00 / 2) (#133)
    by shoephone on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 07:24:31 PM EST
    and never has been. He is roundly despised by many of the true liberals in the House. And please, Feinstein votes her own selfish interests all the time. She should have been brought up on ethics charges for steering money to her husbands businesses. If ever someone should have ben made to recuse herself on certain votes, it's Feinstein.

    You call her behavior practical. I call it questionable, at the very least.


    I wonder: Do DiFi's constituents (5.00 / 1) (#134)
    by shoephone on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 07:26:58 PM EST
    think she is looking out for their interests? I'd bet a good many of them do not believe that. She is carrying water for the NSA, and for the people who have come before Congress and lied under oath.

    She had the guts to sponsor the (5.00 / 2) (#138)
    by oculus on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 09:34:12 PM EST
    Recently-defeated gun restrictions bill.  

    It is clear that you have (none / 0) (#137)
    by christinep on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 08:55:53 PM EST
    strong antipathy toward Sen. Feinstein.  Frankly, I've always supported her in lieu of an alternative from California.  But, I do hear your position, shoephone ...sometimes, we find ourselves in a situation where those outside a state/district/etc. cannot see what we have witnessed.  In this case, I may be that outsider.  But, you know, if her constituents have tired or are tiring of her, the practical reality is that someone with constituent support has to take her on.

    She's not my senator (5.00 / 1) (#140)
    by shoephone on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 11:42:39 PM EST
    but I did grow up in California and still pay close attention to Cal politics. I was in college there when Milk and Moscone were murdered, and she was a real source of stability during that horrible time and in the days following, taking over the mayor's office. But either she changed a lot or simply started showing truer colors when she became a senator. I think she and Boxer both have outlived their sell-by dates. Her duplicity on the deep and wide tentacles of the security state, and her unethical votes on contracts financially benefiting her husband and herself have made her damaged goods, IMO. California Democrats can and should do better.

    Wasn't the Senator known to be (none / 0) (#148)
    by christinep on Tue Aug 06, 2013 at 11:42:03 AM EST
    rather hawkish (or similar descriptive) on foreign affairs & security? Was she practicing "duplicity" or has she gradually shifted over the past 30 years in view of her role in the Intelligence community?  I understand your position, but do wonder about the harshness of the word "duplicity?"

    The complex and uninviting outcomes (5.00 / 1) (#125)
    by MO Blue on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 03:20:23 PM EST
    that you predict would only occur if there were a permanent alliance between the Republican contingency and the Democratic contingency who voted to curtail NSA's spying activities.

    Since the likelihood of Conyers and the other Democratic Representations who voted "yea" on this bill, voting to eliminate Government intervention in federal health programs, regulated school programs, civil rights laws etc. is probably zero, I find it hard to view this as a credible warning.


    You understand, MO Blue (none / 0) (#130)
    by christinep on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 06:08:52 PM EST
    Of course, it is temporary.  My comment is to point out that all politics really is practical, local, and all that.  Others who might not understand the "alliance" might jump to the inaccurate conclusion that some big change or shift was happening.  And, as you seem to suggest, that would be a miscalculation in the world of politics.

    That statement leaves out the fact that (5.00 / 3) (#117)
    by MO Blue on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 12:36:01 PM EST
    the Democratic WH engaged in a full court press to defeat it and Democratic leadership in the House whipped and voted against its passage.

    In reality, the fate of the amendment was sealed when the Obama White House on Monday night announced its vehement opposition to it, and then sent NSA officials to the House to scare members that barring the NSA from collecting all phone records of all Americans would Help The Terrorists<sup>TM</sup>.
    Even more notable than the Obama White House's defense of the NSA's bulk domestic spying was the behavior of the House Democratic leadership. Not only did they all vote against de-funding the NSA bulk domestic spying program - that includes liberal icon House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi, who voted to protect the NSA's program - but Pelosi's deputy, Steny Hoyer, whipped against the bill by channeling the warped language and mentality of Dick Cheney. This is the language the Democratic leadership circulated when telling their members to reject Amash/Conyers:

    "2) Amash/Conyers/Mulvaney/Polis/Massie Amendment - Bars the NSA and other agencies from using Section 215 of the Patriot Act (as codified by Section 501 of FISA) to collect records, including telephone call records, that pertain to persons who may be in communication with terrorist groups but are not already subject to an investigation under Section 215."

    Yes... (none / 0) (#118)
    by Edger on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 12:48:31 PM EST
    Obama is far, far better than any republican could ever hope to be.

    No republican - not even all of them put together - would ever have a hope in hell of getting a cheer out of people for this the way obama does so effortlessly.

    He's a pro.


    It seemed obvious it was only a matter of time.  A shorter period of time than I thought though.  Police state formed, turn the key all the way and done.

    Intelligence at work. (5.00 / 3) (#98)
    by lentinel on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 11:23:12 AM EST
    Gen. Martin Dempsey, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said Sunday on ABC's "This Week" that the potential for an attack (by Al Q)  is serious.
    "There is a significant threat stream, and we're reacting to it," he said. Asked for details about what the threat entails, the general said: "That part of it is unspecified..."


    Having that information from the threat stream that something unspecified is going to happen at an unspecified time somewhere unspecified makes me feel real good and I'm making my plans accordingly.

    You could call holding on any football play (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by ragebot on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 12:23:18 PM EST
    As I am sure BTD will confirm the officials could call a holding penalty on any play in a football game.

    I would suspect that intel guys could come up with a terrorist threat warning on any day of the month as well.


    Their "terror alert" is, in itself, (4.00 / 4) (#102)
    by Edger on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 11:38:57 AM EST
    an act of terrorism.

    ter·ror·ism : Noun: The use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.


    Right... (5.00 / 1) (#128)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 04:03:01 PM EST
    So they only collect metadata, but the somehow they managed to pull chatter from it, but not enough to actually figure it out.  Good thing they are tracking my every movement and communication here in Texas or this might have never been detected and people in Africa would have died.

    It has to be secret to be effective unless of course they decide to shout it from the rafters.

    It wouldn't surprise me if the CIA decided to detonate a bomb in an empty embassy.  Nothing crazy, just enough to scare people who live on the other side of the world and stop the bleeding on the spying programs.

    We have embassies in places that I am surprised haven't been targets in the past like Rwanda and Yemen.


    The chatter took place overseas. (none / 0) (#131)
    by Visteo1 on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 06:29:46 PM EST
    I have not heard the medium used, nor how it was intercepted.  I would be surprised if we hear details.  

    @Edger - Please don't start rumours about self-inflicted hoaxes.  I am not ready for the Bhengazi conspiracy to take a new turn.


    Haven't we heard this song before? (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by jbindc on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 12:06:14 PM EST

    Six months later, State of the Union policy goals gathering dust

    Nearly six months after President Obama used his State of the Union address to outline a broad, progressive agenda for his second term, many of the policy priorities that earned applause from his base appear to be gathering dust.

    The White House and Democratic allies insist that the president is making measurable progress on his goals, noting instances where Obama has taken executive action on his own or built coalitions with Republicans in the Senate.

    They also argue that even where the president falls short of legislative wins, he has framed the issues to succeed down the road. Obama's continued push for priorities recognized as popular with voters forces Republican lawmakers to both oppose the measure and reinforce their obstinate reputation, strategists say.

    But a look at the list of policy goals the president pushed for in his February address reveals little movement on a wide variety of objectives.


    Despite a laundry list of instances where the president's agenda has become mired, White House officials are preaching patience.

    "The gridlock of the moment is not predictive of what is going to happen in the future on big issues," senior adviser Dan Pfeiffer said last week at a Christian Science Monitor breakfast.

    "If we'd had this breakfast in August of 2011, and I had said to you, 'the president is going to go out and he's going to campaign and he's going to make the case for protecting tax cuts on the middle class and raising the rates on the wealthy back to what they were under Bill Clinton,' you all would have laughed me out of the room," he continued.

    For Jeralyn: (5.00 / 1) (#107)
    by oculus on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 12:06:49 PM EST

    Wonder if anyone has seen this: (5.00 / 2) (#114)
    by Anne on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 12:26:28 PM EST
    Tamerlan Tsarnaev subscribed to publications espousing white supremacy and government conspiracy theories. He also had reading material on mass killings. Until now the Tsarnaev brothers were widely perceived as just self-styled radical jihadists. Panorama has spent months speaking exclusively with friends of the bombers to try to understand the roots of their radicalisation. The programme discovered that Tamerlan Tsarnaev possessed articles which argued that both 9/11 and the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing were government conspiracies. Another in his possession was about "the rape of our gun rights". Reading material he had about white supremacy commented that "Hitler had a point." Tamerlan Tsarnaev also had literature which explored what motivated mass killings and noted how the perpetrators murdered and maimed calmly. There was also material about US drones killing civilians, and about the plight of those still imprisoned in Guantanamo Bay.


    Charlie Pierce:

    I can't tell you how disappointed I am that apparently there was no literature found that dealt with the one-worlder threat posed by Agenda 21. However, the late Mr. Tsarnaev seems to have spent months marinating in 100 different spices of American lunacy before he decided to bust out of Prison Planet with a bang. Turns out he was a bipartisan sociopath, a kind of No Labels/Third Way dude when it came to attempts at mass murder.

    My initial and ongoing impression is, "Huh."  Not "huh?" but the declarative, "huh."  As in, who knew, and I wonder what direction things are going to go in now.

    It appears that Tamerlan was a good old (5.00 / 1) (#141)
    by caseyOR on Tue Aug 06, 2013 at 12:09:36 AM EST
    all American rightwing nut job. A white supremacist terrorist, not an Islamic terrorist.

    He certainly seemed to have sampled most of the major paranoid rightwing areas. Gun rights crazy, yep. 9/11 truther, yep. White supremacy, yep.


    It appears (none / 0) (#144)
    by ragebot on Tue Aug 06, 2013 at 06:49:30 AM EST
    there is more smoke than fire here.

    The mainstream media has distributed articles on the rightwing topics mentioned (whatever rightwing means).  The article does not mention the source of the articles, kinda important fact in my mind.  Lets also remember during WWII Islam was basically rightwing.

    My first impression on reading the article linked to was "where is the beef".  While there is a brief mention of the younger brother possessing a couple of rightwing articles there is a much longer exposition of ties to Islam and radicalization by the brother's mother.  Not to mention the brother's last words about being a Muslim.

    I am open to changing my mind if more evidence comes out, but so far I am calling cheap publicity headline twisting the facts.


    Right... (5.00 / 1) (#145)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Aug 06, 2013 at 10:33:28 AM EST
    Just because they are readying and believing the same conspiracy non-sense doesn't equate to them being the same politically.

    Just two different political ideologies who happen to have a common enemy, the US government.  Pretty sure White Supremacists aren't down with immigrants in any way, especially Russians, even if they are white.

    I would imagine all Muslim fundamentalists believe 911 was a set-up to wage war on Islam.  It's how the mind of the zealot works, they perceive persecution where is doesn't exist.  War on xmas, cough, cough.


    Objection, non responsive (1.00 / 2) (#146)
    by ragebot on Tue Aug 06, 2013 at 10:42:51 AM EST
    is the first thing that comes to mine almost every time I read one of ScottW714's posts.

    My point was that the article linked to contained precious little about the younger brother's right wing reading habits.  It contained a lot more about both brothers and their mother having rather extreme views of Islam.

    What I was looking for was details on what right wing reading one or both of the brothers had been doing, not some diatribe I have trouble following.

    We have just been through a long drawn out string of threads about how the media has distorted the facts about the Zimmerman case and it looks to me like this is an example of a headline distorting the facts about the Boston Bombing case.


    Hate groups differ (none / 0) (#153)
    by Mikado Cat on Sat Aug 10, 2013 at 08:24:23 AM EST
    on who they hate, but not so much on core belief's, structures, and methods. They could share a common newsletter format and cut and paste a few different words.

    Reading their material doesn't mean accepting ideology, just sharing recipes.


    I look forward to the BTD post Monday (none / 0) (#7)
    by CoralGables on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 07:00:22 PM EST
    when Arod is suspended for 214 games.

    I look forward to the BTD post ... (none / 0) (#8)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 07:08:32 PM EST
    ... sometime in mid-September, when the Yankees are eliminated from playoff contention.

    Pads actually beat the Yankees @ Petco. (none / 0) (#26)
    by oculus on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 01:34:29 AM EST
    Sweet. But I was at Summerfest.

    Oculus.. are you in San Diego? (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by Cashmere on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 09:54:14 AM EST
    Love San Diego..  My husband grew up there (Point Loma)..  We love to visit and we stay at OB...  We love to take our dog and stay at a motel that borders Dog Beach.

    Huh? (none / 0) (#38)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 04:47:26 AM EST
    Yanks beat the Padres tonight, 3-0. You must be talking about yesterday's game, a 7-2 SD triumph.

    How was Summerfest this year, BTW? La Jolla is such a great setting for a summer outdoor concert. It's one of my favorite places in SoCal.


    Fri. night the Pads won. Yes, I am still (none / 0) (#39)
    by oculus on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 04:55:22 AM EST
    bitter re '98 WS.

    Summerfest [LJMS] opened last night. Continues through third week in Aug.


    Enjoy. (none / 0) (#41)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 05:49:08 AM EST
    I wish I was in San Diego. I'm jealous. The only place I get to go this summer is American Samoa toward the end of the month (8/21-26) -- and that's work-related. But The Spouse is accompanying me, and we're going to spend two days there checking the place out, after I'm finished at LBJ Med. Center in Pago Pago.

    Plus, Hawaiian Airlines has the only three N/S flights per week between Hawaii and Samoa, and that's really the only way there from here -- unless you're willing to fly 10+ hours to Auckland, NZ and then backtrack 5 hours to Pago Pago. Otherwise, it's about a 5-1/2 hour flight between HNL and PPG.

    So, while I finish on Saturday morning (8/24), the next scheduled flight back home isn't for another 60 hours, at 11:20 p.m. Monday night (8/26). We'll get back to HNL at 5:50 a.m. the following morning. (American Samoa's one hour behind us.)

    Such is how one island-hops across the south and western Pacific -- intermittently.



    Go Big 10 (or 12 or 13)... (none / 0) (#15)
    by Visteo1 on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 08:14:57 PM EST
    What is the count for this year?

    Thought it was B1G (none / 0) (#16)
    by ragebot on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 08:30:42 PM EST
    But whatever you want to call the Big Ten, which currently has 12 teams, and is suppose to expand to 14 in 2014 when the university of Maryland and Rutgers will join.

    Wonder if there is any interest in the legal aspects of UM leaving the ACC and the big bucks they had to pay to leave.

    Not to mention the ongoing legal issues facing Penn State.

    What ever you think about the Big Ten (my take is OSU is the only team in the national picture) no football conference comes close to the legal issues of the Big Ten.


    5 teams in the top 25 (none / 0) (#18)
    by Visteo1 on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 09:43:45 PM EST
    I know little these days, but it looks to be an exciting year.  Ohio State seems to be a constant.  

    Remembering back to the last time Northwestern went to the Rose Bowl, reminds me anything can happen.  The Detroit News put the odds at something like 100,000 to 1, for that happening.  

    Illinois was winless in the B1G last year...Last time that happened, they went to the Rose Bowl the next year.

    If you know of any bookies willing to give 100,000 to 1 odds, I have a few dollars to spend.


    But wasn't Northwestern later (none / 0) (#27)
    by oculus on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 01:37:16 AM EST
    In trouble w/NCAA for that Rose Bowl year?

    Barnett had controvery (none / 0) (#56)
    by Visteo1 on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 10:56:45 AM EST
    after leaving, but I don't remember NW getting into trouble.

    Chief Illiniwek was a big controvery for Illinois.  I do not understand why changes were not made to address valid concerns.  How is it that today we still have the Cleveland Indians image?  That is offensive.


    And really, how about the Fighting Irish of Notre Dame, whose mascot is an appallingly clichéd ethnic stereotype -- a belligerent, whiskey-besotted refugee from the Lucky Charms ad campaign.

    Honestly, I've never understood how either of those ethnic slurs have withstood the test of time.

    I remember the hue and cry that arose from certain quarters of the Italian-American community back in the mid-'70s when CBS first aired "The Godfather," and that network was compelled to run a disclaimer stating that the film was a work of fiction, and was never intended to be at all representative of the future cast of "Jersey Shore."

    Yessiree, we white Americans sure are funny creatures. Sometimes, we're all too ready to jump to conclusions and take immediate offense at a perceived slight -- and then, we'll be all too blasé and dismissive in the face of a painfully obvious slur, simply because the offending caricature doesn't look at all like one of us.

    Aloha. ;-D


    LOL - I like the little Leprechaun (none / 0) (#132)
    by Visteo1 on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 06:42:26 PM EST
    Me too (none / 0) (#139)
    by MO Blue on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 11:30:39 PM EST
    This person of Irish decent is all in favor of the Leprechaun. Am definitely not offended by it and hope it remains for me to enjoy.

    Controversy... (none / 0) (#59)
    by Visteo1 on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 11:11:37 AM EST
    At least the week before last on the west coast (none / 0) (#24)
    by cpresley on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 10:59:55 PM EST
    it's the pac 12. We went to a ceremony at Standford stadium and our badges said pac 12. My husbands Uncle got inducted into the hall of fame. For all you collage football fans don't get excited, it was the hall of fame for the refs.

    What is cottage football? (none / 0) (#29)
    by oculus on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 01:39:00 AM EST
    Cottage football (5.00 / 5) (#35)
    by lentinel on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 04:00:46 AM EST
    is a variation of the game of football that is played in a very small house.

    Collage football, referred to above, is a variation of the game of football in which the ball is made of bits of ribbon and newspaper clippings which are glued together.


    That's "collage football," you silly. (none / 0) (#75)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 04:14:58 PM EST
    She was obviously referring to diehard fans of those plot-driven but dizzying montages of action footage which one always sees in gridiron-themed Hollywood movies, such as "Knute Rockne -- All American," Rudy," "Friday Night Lights" and "On Any Sunday."



    "Brian's Song." (none / 0) (#88)
    by oculus on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 10:01:21 PM EST
    And "Heaven Can Wait" - 1978 version. (none / 0) (#89)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 10:18:32 PM EST
    And " Semi-Tough's" in another category (none / 0) (#91)
    by shoephone on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 10:58:21 PM EST
    altogether: football-romantic-comedy-about-a-threesome-and-the-EST-seminar. Very little scrimmaging, except for off the field...

    The greatest football movie (none / 0) (#92)
    by MKS on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 11:56:13 PM EST
    of them all....All guys cry during that movie.  Even though it was just a cheesy t. v. movie with poor production values....

    There is a reason they do not replay it very often. It lives better in memory than in replay.  


    Intersting aspect of Brian's Song (none / 0) (#97)
    by CoralGables on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 10:55:10 AM EST
    It's said to be based on the book "I Am Third" by Gale Sayers. Technically I guess that's true. In the 272 page book the movie was taken from only about a ten page chapter.

    Usually Hollywood takes a 10 hour book and turns in into a 2 hour movie. Brian's Song took a 5 minute chapter and made it into a 73 minute movie.


    Link? (none / 0) (#99)
    by oculus on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 11:23:50 AM EST
    The link is in my head (none / 0) (#103)
    by CoralGables on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 11:46:00 AM EST
    I read the book.

    Don't try that in a Z thread! (5.00 / 2) (#108)
    by oculus on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 12:13:12 PM EST
    I could be wrong, (5.00 / 1) (#113)
    by sj on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 12:24:17 PM EST
    but I think in general CG tries to avoid a Voldemort thread. :)

    Some of us should have done that, too. (5.00 / 2) (#116)
    by Anne on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 12:28:23 PM EST
    Me being one of those people...it would have been better for my blood pressure, for sure.

    It was Chapter 6 (5.00 / 3) (#115)
    by CoralGables on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 12:28:01 PM EST
    actually about 20 pages.

    Titled: Pick

    Who's Z?
    (please don't answer)


    Let me guess (none / 0) (#135)
    by Politalkix on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 07:29:06 PM EST

    I truly hope BTD starts posting again !! (none / 0) (#19)
    by ZtoA on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 09:52:37 PM EST
    But I have to say that several years ago I posted a comment about shoes. I am not a shoe person in any way. In fact I'm a shoe joke in my family. But J and another responded and it was very  compassionate and, in my perspective, rather funny and inclusive.

    I look forward to expanding this site and having BTD back. And I truly appreciate being challenged and reading differing points of view. Give 'em hell BTD !!

    Coming soon to Fox: Moab on the UT. (none / 0) (#25)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 11:07:12 PM EST
    "Way to go, Dad. Thanks a lot."

    FX should definitely reserve the rights to this story. Yikes!

    And get your Sunday Groove on (none / 0) (#57)
    by Dadler on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 11:03:03 AM EST
    Amazon's labor practices faces resistance (none / 0) (#82)
    by Politalkix on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 05:22:59 PM EST
    in Germany. link

    AN AXE LENGTH AWAY, vol. 89 (none / 0) (#100)
    by Dadler on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 11:26:33 AM EST