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Friday Open Thread

I've got a long drive this afternoon to a jail in the mountains. Here's an open thread, all topics (except Zimmerman) welcome.

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    AN AXE LENGTH AWAY, vol. 86 (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by Dadler on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 12:31:19 PM EST
    My bank (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by Mikado Cat on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 01:44:50 PM EST
    lets me make a deposit by taking a picture with a cell phone.

    Parent
    Take a picture of what? (none / 0) (#14)
    by Dadler on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 03:40:12 PM EST
    Your handsome young man?

    Winky wink wink?

    Parent

    That would be an ICK FACTOR volume (none / 0) (#15)
    by Dadler on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 03:41:18 PM EST
    Very funny image, though.

    Parent
    And what bank would that be? (none / 0) (#17)
    by Dadler on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 03:46:51 PM EST
    First National Seed Bank?

    Parent
    Tomatoes! (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by Zorba on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 12:38:53 PM EST
    The tomato bonanza has begun.  I guess I'll be canning  a bunch of tomatoes this week-end.
    And the squash bonanza has also begun.  I don't know why, every year, I get so excited about harvesting the first of the zucchinis, patty pans, and yellow crookneck squash, because I know darned good and well that, in just a few weeks, I will be begging people to take some of the excess.  Not to mention stealthily leaving bags of squash on the porches of neighbors, and looking for unlocked cars in which to deposit some of the extra squash.  OTOH, my neighbors will be doing the exact same thing.      ;-)

    Pisto Manchego (5.00 / 2) (#13)
    by nycstray on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 03:37:49 PM EST
    Great use of tomatoes and squash, plus you can can it :) Also, tomato jam.

    Mine are taking forever to ripen this year, but the plants are LOADED :D I've been buying some at the FM just so I could start canning (8lbs $2.50), yeah I'm crazy like that, lol!~

    Parent

    Oooohh! (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by Zorba on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 04:13:48 PM EST
    I looked it up, and it certainly looks good to me.
    I do make a Greek vegetable mix and can it.  It includes squash, fresh tomatoes, potatoes, green beans, okra, onions, dill, oregano, garlic, Italian parsley.  And olive oil.  We Greeks cannot make anything without olive oil.  ;-)
    Tomato jam sounds great, too.  Thanks, nycstray!


    Parent
    We Spanish can't cook without olive oil either... (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by gbrbsb on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 09:31:44 AM EST
    no sunflower, rape or other oil will do... and so delicious and healthy. Tomato jam is also really nice and tomato chutney, a typical Indian home made condiment the English adopted from Colonial times. A much tastier and healthier substitute for the ghastly ketchup monopoly.

    Parent
    And I'm betting (none / 0) (#77)
    by Zorba on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 01:28:41 PM EST
    that you use Spanish olive oil.    ;-)
    I use Greek.
    I like the tomatoe chutney suggestion.  I'll have to look up a recipe and make some.  I bet I'll be able to can some for the winter, too.
    I will be making some fresh salsa today or tomorrow, plus some extra salsa to can.  Our hot peppers are starting to come in, and I have enough cilantro, as well.

    Parent
    You bet right... from Jaen, Cordoba & Granada (none / 0) (#97)
    by gbrbsb on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 07:26:54 PM EST
    I do a more italian/mediterranean version (none / 0) (#26)
    by nycstray on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 04:28:14 PM EST
    with capers and olives. I eat it for brunch with the eggs cooked on it along with a seared breakfast style steak and crusty bread :)

    Parent
    That sounds great, too! (none / 0) (#41)
    by Zorba on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 06:43:09 PM EST
    I'll have to try it.  Capers and olives are always good!
    I use my veggie mix as either a side dish, or on cooked rice, orzo, or spaghetti.  Or just a big bowl of it with some crusty bread to sop up the juices, and a green salad on the side.

    Parent
    Pisto Manchego with tomatoes and... squash ??? (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by gbrbsb on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 09:11:07 AM EST
    Surely not the yellow or orange kind... inside or out!

    Traditionally said to be from "La Mancha", (Don Quijote, Rocinante and Sancho Panza's territory) in all my 35 years in Spain I have only ever seen it made or made it myself with courgette ("zucchini" over your side of the pond or "calabacín" south of the Pyrenees), or at a push small green marrow.

    Delicious piping hot with a fried egg or cold with a hard boiled egg... yummy either way!

    Parent

    It seems you 'guys' (5.00 / 3) (#24)
    by Nemi on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 04:17:52 PM EST
    eat what you can and what you can' t you can.

    Sounds delicious btw. :-)

    Parent

    One thing you find during picking season (none / 0) (#29)
    by CoralGables on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 04:31:13 PM EST
    the folks of TL get all excited when they Can Can

    Parent
    Now, now, CG (5.00 / 2) (#42)
    by Zorba on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 06:50:07 PM EST
    I don't think that any of us will be doing the can-can.  But we do can veggies, fruit, make jams and jellies, and so forth.
    Make fun of us all you want, but then you ain't getting anything tha we produce.    ;-)


    Parent
    Good for you! (none / 0) (#99)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 07:57:48 PM EST
    Unfortunately I have the worst garden I have had in years. It has been too cool and too wet to grow the tomatoes and okra with any great harvest. The beans are okay and the bell peppers. The only real success has been banana peppers...

    Parent
    Oh, I'm sorry about (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by Zorba on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 02:10:51 PM EST
    your tomatoes and okra.  It's true, they don't like the cold and wet.  Especially the okra.
    We're in an okay (not the ideal) hardiness zone for okra, but a little on the cool side because we're up on a mountain.  But usually we get enough okra for pickling and freezing, plus enough to eat in my Greek vegetable stews, and fried okra, which we love, but we try to watch the fried foods!
    Everything but some of my herbs and my shallots have done pretty well this year.  The hot peppers aren't as good as last year, but still a decent crop.

    Parent
    I would love to meet you sometime Zorba (5.00 / 2) (#111)
    by ZtoA on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 10:36:23 PM EST
    I like your political views and actually agree with most of them. And it is so interesting to me that you hold those views and are such a home cook and preserver. Its not actually surprising.

    I went to 11 Madison Park because of your recommendation. I walked in early (one can often walk in to an upscale restaurant on a weekday if early enough) and they seated me. I had been to the MET, the Armory Museum and to the Morgan that day and had walked all over and had, for some reason, worn a linen shirt which by that time was very wrinkled and my shoes are always best described as "walking". But they seated me in the bar and I ordered the most amazing meal. Soon enough I realized that I was so very very underdressed.  I imagined that Saudi princes brought their wives there and other NYC versions of beautiful people came in. But no one was dismissive of my in my shoddy attire at any point. I thought of you since you had recommended it and thought of you growing your food. You are an enigma and a very interesting person to follow online.

    Parent

    Oh, my (5.00 / 1) (#115)
    by Zorba on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 09:03:33 AM EST
    I had never thought of myself as an enigma.
    But yes, we have a farm, grow and preserve a lot of our own food, buy as much of the rest as we can locally (and did this many years before the whole "locavore" movement got trendy), and we also like to travel, go to nice restaurants, museums, the theater, the symphony, etc, etc, etc.
    There are liberals on farms.  They're not all in major urban centers.  Our closest friends up here are two families who also have small farms, and are also liberals.  We met because our kids were all in 4-H together.  The majority of the rest of the people up this way are pretty conservative, but what I would call more old-fashioned conservatives, hard-working, "salt of the earth" types, not at all tea-party types.
    Think of me as an old, 1960's, anti-war leftie.  Or as some of my friends call me, an aging hippie.        ;-)

    Parent
    Judy Woodruff interviews Tice and Binney (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by shoephone on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 01:25:14 PM EST
    on last night's PBS News Hour.

    NSA, apparently, spied on Supreme Court Justices during the Bush years. As well as all the rest of us.

    Spied (none / 0) (#19)
    by Mikado Cat on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 03:52:30 PM EST
    How? and why?

    Parent
    AN AXE LENGTH AWAY, vol. 87 (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by Dadler on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 10:19:22 AM EST
    Terrorist Bambi (5.00 / 2) (#78)
    by Edger on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 01:34:52 PM EST
    From the  "Inmates running the asylum" dept.
    August 1st...
    13 Wisconsin officials raid animal shelter to kill baby deer named Giggles

    Two weeks ago, Ray Schulze was working in a barn at the Society of St. Francis no-kill animal shelter in Kenosha, Wis., when officials swarmed the shelter with a search warrant.

    "[There were] nine [Department of Natural Resources] agents and four deputy sheriffs, and they were all armed to the teeth," Mr. Schulze told WISN 12. "It was like a SWAT team."

    The agents were there to retrieve a baby deer named Giggles that was dropped off by a family worried she had been abandoned by her mother, the station reported. Wisconsin law forbids the possession of wildlife.

    "I said the deer is scheduled to go to the wildlife reserve the next day," Mr. Schulze told the station. "I was thinking in my mind they were going to take the deer and take it to a wildlife shelter, and here they come carrying the baby deer over their shoulder. She was in a body bag. I said, `Why did you do that?' He said, `That's our policy,' and I said, `That's one hell of a policy.'"

    Photo of man eating Terrorist Bambi at the link.

    It's supposed to be better (5.00 / 2) (#79)
    by Zorba on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 01:44:11 PM EST
    to kill the fawn than to allow the guy at the shelter to transport it to the wildlife reserve???  Or to transport it themselves?
    That's a policy that stinks.  The Department of Natural Resources needs to change their stupid policy.  I can more than understand why they don't want people to possess a wild animal, but I think a nature reserve would be a perfect place for the deer.  And in the interim until the deer can be taken to the reserve, a no-kill animal shelter seems to me to be very different from some average deluded person thinking that they want to raise their own Bambi.

    Parent
    But, but, but.... (5.00 / 3) (#80)
    by Edger on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 01:49:47 PM EST
    It's the "policy", you know?

    Not a policy that people can't be in possession of wildlife, but policy that the only possible way to resolve this while keepin' em safe 'n secure is to send a SWAT team armed to the teeth out to kill it now!

    You can't be too safe. You just never know. With that face and those eyes she could have walked right into the middle of a playground and exploded?

    Why didn't they just drone the place?

    Parent

    Findings of a new fiscal study on (5.00 / 7) (#86)
    by MO Blue on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 02:44:02 PM EST
    Medicare For All.

    Upgrading the nation's Medicare program and expanding it to cover people of all ages would yield more than a half-trillion dollars in efficiency savings in its first year of operation, enough to pay for high-quality, comprehensive health benefits for all residents of the United States at a lower cost to most individuals, families and businesses.

    That's the chief finding of a new fiscal study by Gerald Friedman, a professor of economics at the University of Massachusetts, Amherst. There would even be money left over to help pay down the national debt, he said.Friedman says his analysis shows that a nonprofit single-payer system based on the principles of the Expanded and Improved Medicare for All Act, H.R. 676, introduced by Rep. John Conyers Jr., D-Mich., and co-sponsored by 45 other lawmakers, would save an estimated $592 billion in 2014. That would be more than enough to cover all 44 million people the government estimates will be uninsured in that year and to upgrade benefits for everyone else.



    The UMass (Amherst) (5.00 / 5) (#89)
    by KeysDan on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 03:44:19 PM EST
    Department of Economics is a heterodox academic unit of substantial heft.   President Obama would have been well served in both economic and health care policies with such input--even though it is not Harvard and does not  have the likes of Larry Summers,  Carmen Reinhardt and Kenneth Rogoff among its faculty members.

    UMass Economics Department Professor Gerald Friedman's study on Medicare for all is a good example, as is the work of UMass Economics Department Professors Michael Ash and Robert Pollin and their graduate student, Thomas Herndon, who found the acclaimed work of Reinhardt and Rogoff to be irreproducible and resting on an excel blooper.   Reihnardt and Rogoff's error was, in no small measure,  the basis for the international austerity kick, with its glaringly apparent and dismal results.  

    Parent

    Unfortunately, being proven right is not (5.00 / 2) (#90)
    by MO Blue on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 04:07:54 PM EST
    valued since the WH, most of our politicians and the majority of our media prefer to use those who have been proven wrong as their so called "expert" sources.

     

    Parent

    At one time I thought the (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by KeysDan on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 05:47:15 PM EST
    best job in the world is a weather forecaster--who else could be wrong so much and keep his (her) job?   But, no.  It seems like guys like Larry Summers and Tim Geithner not only can make colossal errors, but be considered for even bigger jobs (e.g.  Fed Reserve Chair) and receive high praise from the President of the USA.

    Parent
    Without digging too deep (none / 0) (#91)
    by Mikado Cat on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 04:17:10 PM EST
    "save an estimated $592 billion in 2014"

    Why do I doubt that reducing payments to the healthcare industry by $592 billion a year is going to have a benign effect?

    Doctors and hospitals can afford to take medicare patients because they have other patients that pay much more. Remove the high payers who demand premiums services and watch healthcare go down the toilet.

    Parent

    Heaven forbid that you (5.00 / 5) (#92)
    by MO Blue on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 04:30:48 PM EST
    dig deeply into a subject prior to forming and expressing your opinion.

    Since you have left us choosing between the findings of actual research conducted by UMass Economics Department Professor Gerald and your admittedly shallow opinion, I think I will go with the actual research.  

    Parent

    What is confusing (none / 0) (#102)
    by Mikado Cat on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 08:00:45 AM EST
    If $592 billion a year is "saved" how does that not mean a net $592 billion a year less into the healthcare industry?

    Parent
    I prrovided a link to the research (5.00 / 3) (#105)
    by MO Blue on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 08:42:06 AM EST
    Health care is an issue that many people on this blog are very interested in and we take the time to read literature on the subject.

    From your responses, it appears that you have not taken the time to read the data on the research. That might be a good step for you to take.

    Parent

    Math (2.00 / 2) (#113)
    by Mikado Cat on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 03:55:14 AM EST
    is actually my favorite subject, and it tells me the plan is going to save $592 billion a year. I don't need to know any other details to understand it is a crock.

    What a clever idea, we all just pay less and get the same services, and nobody thought of this before?

    I can't wait to see this applied to income tax, we all pay less, and the government does fine.

    Parent

    Do you really expect anyone to take your (5.00 / 4) (#114)
    by MO Blue on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 04:34:53 AM EST
    opinion seriously when you announce that you are  completely uninformed about a topic and have no interest in any details about the subject?
    Talk about a crock. Your uneducated and flawed opinion fits that description nicely.

    BTW, I will say goodbye to you now. I know you don't like to read links but this is one you may want to read, Mikado Cat.

    Parent

    Poll: (none / 0) (#3)
    by jbindc on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 12:53:31 PM EST
    U.S. Drinkers Divide Between Beer and Wine as Favorite:

    PRINCETON, NJ -- Americans who drink alcohol are about equally likely to say they drink beer (36%) or wine (35%) most often. Another 23% say liquor is their beverage of choice. That continues the trend in which beer has declined as the preferred beverage of U.S. drinkers, shrinking its advantage over wine from 20 percentage points in 1992 to one point today.



    A friend gave me a bottle of this: (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 03:32:28 PM EST
    [Silver Coyotehttps://www.google.com/search?q=silver+coyote+santa+fe&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en& ;client=safari#biv=i%7C0%3Bd%7CZITiRSVG_edfYM%3A]

    Good stuff.

    Parent

    Following your link, (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by Nemi on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 04:30:44 PM EST
    this was the first link at Google. I've never come across a question like that before, but what's the point? Anyone can click on the 'Yes' button. No?

    Parent
    did you mean this? (none / 0) (#27)
    by sj on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 04:28:18 PM EST
    Yep. There was a bottle on the bar @ (none / 0) (#38)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 06:28:39 PM EST
    Santa Fe Opera. My friend asked for it at a liquor store. The clerk had never heard of it but the store stocked it.  

    Parent
    Seems like it is (none / 0) (#44)
    by Zorba on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 06:58:38 PM EST
    a "white whiskey."
    Doesn't sound all that interesting to me.  There's a reason that the Scots leave their whiskey to age in barrels for years.  
    YMMV, obviously.     ;-)

    Parent
    After a guided tour (none / 0) (#62)
    by Nemi on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 06:49:04 AM EST
    around Glenfiddich Distillery (hmmm, there's that warning again, but now in an extended version) years back, at the end of the tour we were offered a 'wee dram'. 'Wee' indeed. Hardly enough to fill a thimble, let alone reach our taste buds, so I really couldn't tell if the aging had an effect on the taste. But it sure did live up to the myth about Scottish people being stingy. ;-)

    Parent
    Is it good? (none / 0) (#50)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 11:22:19 PM EST
    Are you sipping on it?

    Parent
    I like it! About to sip another wee dram. (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by oculus on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 01:02:34 AM EST
    I don't generally like whiskey...bleh (none / 0) (#55)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 01:32:26 AM EST
    But some of the newer small batch things becoming available are a lot better IMO.  One of our friends likes Basil Hayden so I tried some and found it completely different from any past whiskey I had ever tried and very enjoyable.

    Parent
    I like Jameson's. (none / 0) (#56)
    by oculus on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 02:15:47 AM EST
    I can do Jameson in an Irish coffee (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 02:22:23 AM EST
    Thats about it though.  The more common whiskeys clash with my taste buds and my constitution.  I can drink the heck out of tequila though, something many cannot abide :)

    Parent
    Yum (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by chrisvee on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 02:05:41 PM EST
    I am a tequila girl as well.

    Parent
    It must taste as good to us (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 03:38:47 PM EST
    As Jack Daniels tastes to others.  Just thinking about Jack Daniels makes me nauseous though.  When we married someone gave us a bottle of Crown Royal...bleh.  15 years later our daughter married and I sent the bottle at the last minute to the reception.  Three guys made it disappear forever and I never have to dust it again.

    Parent
    Love tequila (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by sj on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 06:28:23 PM EST
    A few years back I was visiting a friend in Austin. You probably knew that there was such a thing as a tequila bar, but it was a revelation to me. So many good, smooth tequilas. Like swallowing liquid gold. Drank too much to make a note of my favorites, though...

    Parent
    Tequila makes me warm, smiley, so happy (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 07:53:36 PM EST
    It's just delightful.  I like to space my shots out with a beer.  Man there's some good tequila out there.  The beer is the breather and the palette cleanse.

    Parent
    Me too (none / 0) (#67)
    by DFLer on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 09:26:52 AM EST
    too much, though. I've had to 86 myself from drinking it!

    Parent
    Yer all a buncha (5.00 / 3) (#96)
    by shoephone on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 06:32:23 PM EST
    lushes, you are. Now give m'another shot o' the Jameson's.

    Parent
    More details (none / 0) (#4)
    by jbindc on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 01:21:25 PM EST
    emerging on Benghazi:

    CNN has uncovered exclusive new information about what is allegedly happening at the CIA, in the wake of the deadly Benghazi terror attack.

    Four Americans, including Ambassador Christopher Stevens, were killed in the assault by armed militants last September 11 in eastern Libya.

    Sources now tell CNN dozens of people working for the CIA were on the ground that night, and that the agency is going to great lengths to make sure whatever it was doing, remains a secret.

    CNN has learned the CIA is involved in what one source calls an unprecedented attempt to keep the spy agency's Benghazi secrets from ever leaking out.

    Since January, some CIA operatives involved in the agency's missions in Libya, have been subjected to frequent, even monthly polygraph examinations, according to a source with deep inside knowledge of the agency's workings.

    The goal of the questioning, according to sources, is to find out if anyone is talking to the media or Congress.

    It is being described as pure intimidation, with the threat that any unauthorized CIA employee who leaks information could face the end of his or her career.

    In exclusive communications obtained by CNN, one insider writes, "You don't jeopardize yourself, you jeopardize your family as well."

    Another says, "You have no idea the amount of pressure being brought to bear on anyone with knowledge of this operation."

    "Agency employees typically are polygraphed every three to four years. Never more than that," said former CIA operative and CNN analyst Robert Baer.

    In other words, the rate of the kind of polygraphs alleged by sources is rare.



    With (none / 0) (#7)
    by Mikado Cat on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 01:52:15 PM EST
    Congress focused on partisan fighting, and Benghazi being a phony scandal, I still give this a 50/50 chance of blowing wide open.

    How much mystery can there be?

    It was well known the CIA was attempting to buy up missing weapons like the Stingers after the fall of Qaddafi.

    Weapons and money going to rebels to fight in Syria.

    What is left except embarrassment in the execution of those activities?

    Parent

    Part of it (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by jbindc on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 02:47:54 PM EST
    Is maybe because we were originally told there were no more than 7 people in the compound the night of the attack, and now it appears that there were at least 35 - mostly CIA operatives. And if this part of the story is true, these operatives are now being harassed and threatened not to talk about what really happened that night.

    And then there's the question of was the administration (like all of its predecessors) using diplomatic cover to run a covert op on foreign soil and protect that mission?

    And another question this begs is this:  is the CIA hidiing something really big from Congress? Is that what all the initimidation and harassment tactics are about?

    I don't know if this is a "scandal", but there are a whole lot of things that don't add up.  When the administration started the whole "this was because of a video of protests" (that never actually happened) message, that certainly didn't help (and then they had to back off that statement, which did not help).

    Parent

    Not the compound (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by Mikado Cat on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 03:50:23 PM EST
    The larger group was at the CIA annex.

    Strong suspicion is that the attack on the compound was intended to flush out the CIA operation and lead the attackers to it when the group at the compound were rescued.

    If the CIA was paying $20k for each stinger, the amount of money could be quite large at that facility.

    A group could have for example sold them 100 stingers for $2 million in cash, promised another delivery, then attacked to recover both the stingers and and cash.

    Parent

    The whole (5.00 / 4) (#34)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 04:57:57 PM EST
    Benghazi thing is going nowhere. First of all, the GOP group Groundswell is the one that has been pushing this story, getting Issa to send out false information on it and everything. At a certain point people just quit listening about this and it pales compares to the 1000 times as many people that died in Iraq and we never found out what went on there did we? This is about trying to drive Hillary's numbers down not really about Obama at all.

    Parent
    Part of the problem with your theory (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by jbindc on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 05:12:38 PM EST
    Is that the WH also sent out false information from the beginning that they had to back out away from.  

    I don't think if new information comes out like we are seeing, people will "quit listening".

    And while it may come to nothing, it certainly is worth asking questions.

    Parent

    You know, there is a very real difference ... (4.14 / 7) (#43)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 06:55:36 PM EST
    ... between purposefully disseminating a falsehood with the intent to deceive or mislead, and what the White House actually did, which was to offer an initial assessment of a then-fluid situation in Benghazi, accompanied by a clearly stated caveat that said assessment would probably change as more information about what happened over there became known to them.

    Therefore, I really wish you wouldn't lace your critiques with long since discredited GOP talking points -- i.e., "the WH also sent out false information ..." -- when discussing this matter. It can come across like you're scandal-mongering, even if that's not your intent.

    You want a real Benghazi scandal, then I'd suggest you instead take a good long look at the House Oversight Committee's disgraceful handling of this sorry matter under Chairman Darrell Issa, given that they falsely attributed to the White House some blatantly mis-transcribed texts of e-mails, which were then offered to ABC's resident Capitol Hill stenographer, Jonathan Karl, who then dutifully reported the misinformation verbatim.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Nakoula (none / 0) (#58)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 03:02:33 AM EST
    Nakoula is still in jail.

    Parent
    There is also a very real difference (none / 0) (#61)
    by jbindc on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 06:43:16 AM EST
    Between saying "We don't really have all the information and as this is a fluid situation, we can only tell you that initial, unverified reports suggest that it was ___." vs. "There were large protests and then there was a video."

    I think most people would understand that the government may not have all the answers to something this large and horrific in just a few days, so the fact that the administration felt compelled to not only a lie, but a blatant and easily disproved lie, just shows how much contempt they have for us and how stupid they think we are.

    I found it astounding that instead of demanding answers - no matter whose fault or ultimate responsibility it is - there are people who continue to make excuses by saying things like "Ooh, Darrell Issa is scary!" Especially when they like to use the WH carefully crafted spin about deliberately "doctored" emails, to prove their point.

    Parent

    Oh Please (none / 0) (#100)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 08:05:19 PM EST
    They were still spouting the "talking points" 4 days later...

    Or don't you understand we have radios, the internet...telephones..

    Really Donald, just when I start to assign some confidence in you.

    Parent

    What Benghazi is really about (none / 0) (#36)
    by Politalkix on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 05:09:17 PM EST
    link

    In their own words....

    Parent

    Glen Doherty (none / 0) (#48)
    by Mikado Cat on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 11:15:28 PM EST
    has online friends that don't tend to forgive and forget.

    Parent
    Meaning what? (none / 0) (#53)
    by shoephone on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 11:54:50 PM EST
    Are his "online friends" making threats? Or was this simply another provocative, trollish comment from you?

    Parent
    Glen was a good friend to (none / 0) (#59)
    by Mikado Cat on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 04:30:05 AM EST
    a diverse group of people online, and they are not likely to forget. Not a violent group AFAIK, but technically resourceful.

    I am just pointing out that some don't consider the death of 4 decent human beings as bumps in the road, or a phony scandal.

    Parent

    Why is (5.00 / 3) (#60)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 06:24:41 AM EST
    one person so much more important than 4,000? It's like oh, 4,000 died in Iraq sigh so sad too bad BUT FOUR GET THIS FOUR!!!! people died in Benghazi and it's the END OF THE FREAKING WORLD. This just makes ZERO sense. And 58 people died in embassy attacks under George W. Bush and not a peep from the GOP.

    Parent
    No one does (5.00 / 2) (#63)
    by Yman on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 08:31:50 AM EST
    I am just pointing out that some don't consider the death of 4 decent human beings as bumps in the road, or a phony scandal.

    Everyone takes the death of those 4 people seriously.

    Everyone doesn't/shouldn't support the laundry list of manufactured scandals propogated by the GOP.

    But go ahead and keep slinging straw.

    Parent

    Honestly (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 01:59:47 PM EST
    the GOP is doing it again. They are turning a tragedy into a punchline. I never thought 9/11 could be turned into a punchline but they managed to do it. By the time 2016 rolls around, every time a Republican mentions Benghazi it's going to bring nothing but peals of laughter.

    Parent
    Not sure where you're getting that idea (none / 0) (#85)
    by jbindc on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 02:20:40 PM EST
    Here's one poll from May - 8 months after the attack. So, while the news ebbs and flows on this, it's just silly to say that it has become a "punchline".

    And despite the craziness of the Republicans, I think most people want answers and the complete BS the White House has given so far is not satisfactory.

    Parent

    Well (5.00 / 3) (#101)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 07:28:20 AM EST
    the GOP does not want answers and they are unwilling to relinquish control of any investigation. Petraues said that there could not have been a plane sent but the GOP continues to shop the story that Obama told them to "stand down" Every time Hillary's name is brought up the GOP screams Benghazi! Benghazi! Benghazi! So it's kind of becoming a punchline.

    Parent
    The shame isn't GOP (2.00 / 3) (#103)
    by Mikado Cat on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 08:08:40 AM EST
    digging into the worst diplomatic fiasco in 30 years, its that NOBODY else is.

    Huge mistakes were made in both policy and execution and the only reason we aren't getting an explanation is that the trail leads back to Clinton and Obama.

    Its been almost a year, doesn't Obama know what he did that night yet?

    Parent

    Worst (5.00 / 5) (#104)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 08:36:20 AM EST
    diplomatic fiasoo? Worse than what? The bombing of the marine barracks where many times the people were killed? The War in Iraq where 1000 times the people were killed? The 58 people that were killed in embassies under George W. Bush? It's only the "worst" thing in the fevered minds of conspiracy theorists. When you use reason, the whole hyperbole falls apart.

    Parent
    Where was the GOP when members (5.00 / 5) (#106)
    by Anne on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 08:53:38 AM EST
    of their own party were lying us into a war that killed exponentially more Americans?  

    Helping, that's where.

    The GOP is only interested in Benghazi because they think they can make it into something that will bring down or severely damage Obama and the Democrats.  

    To help you with respect to other things the GOP is trying to make into some kind of scandal, the above paragraph is actually a template, that originally looked like this:

    The GOP is only interested in ____ because they think they can make it into something that will bring down or severely damage ____ and the Democrats.  

    The versatility of this template is unparalleled - all you have to do is fill in the blanks - and since the GOP is never going to stop trying to spin straw into gold at the slightest hint of controversy, it's going to get a lot of use!

    Parent

    The irony (5.00 / 3) (#109)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 12:49:25 PM EST
    is that this is solely what the GOP has been doing for about two decades now. It was the end of the world and the "worst thing EVER" that little nothing called Whitewater. It was the worst thing EVER with Travelgate. It was the WORST THING ever Bill Clinton having an affair. The world was going to end if we did not get rid of him and impeach him according to the GOP. Then you have the crazed birth certificate people. The smallest thing is the WORST EVER. This is how they manage to turn everything into a punchline. Mike Lofgren named them correctly when he called the GOP an apocalyptic cult whose only goal is to "fleece the rubes".

    Honestly, sooner or later you're going to have to give people a reason to vote FOR you but the GOP seems to be incapable of doing that.

    The thing that they really could use to their advantage is the NSA stuff but then people remember that Bush was spying on everybody too.

    If Hillary is the nominee in 2016 we should start a Benghazi drinking game.

    Parent

    If, as you suggest, most people (none / 0) (#88)
    by christinep on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 03:42:59 PM EST
    want answers, why aren't we seeing it in the main ... other than the House protagonists & their talking points or the talking points of the very conservative media talkers?  That one self-selecting sample some months back and proximate to the publicized House hearings is used as justification to support a personal conclusion that many people still have questions is apropos of very little.

    I follow much of your comments ... they are interesting, well-thought out, etc.  While it is true that we seem to represent different political viewpoints in the context of American politics ... nonetheless, I've learned a number of things from what you have written.  But this Benghazi thing ... well, it is difficult to understand why if one so intelligent would want to pursue any possible "scandal," it would be the matter of a sad, tragic event in a dangerous consulate area of the world.  In recent decades -- as I'm sure you know & as even CNN recaps in its main online feature this am -- many people (including American staff) have been killed in attack on or near American embassies/consular offices.  

    Although it would be foolish for me to say "never" or "no way," without more the Issa et al approach to Benghazi verges on a pathetic attempt to create suspicion out of a sad tragedy.  And, without more, the most obvious reason that comes to mind is now-publicized early attempt by the Repubs to start softening up/taking down/wev then Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.  The only real mystery, now, would be how long Issa & crew (with their very conservative media allies) will keep polishing their conspiracy theory.

    Parent

    Imagination? (none / 0) (#21)
    by christinep on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 04:02:33 PM EST
    We both know that an intelligence force could be on the ground" for any one or combo of a number of reasons.  

    Two questions: Where "on the ground" would these operatives have been (in or outside the Benghazi compound?) In terms of foreign intelligence operations, what do you think it is necessary to know in terms of transparency AND in terms of security?

    Oh, and given the directive to close  certain mid-East compounds/embassies on August 4th, what degree of specificity should we know about the reasons leading to that decision?  (Sorry ... but, let me throw in a general & rhetorical question or statement in trying to understand the fascination that the House seems to have with Benghazi ... Seriously, what is it that raises the dander of some about Benghazi that makes it different from other assaulted foreign posts such as Lebanon in the 80s or the South African Embassy in the 90s or a number of other dangerous post?  Part of me is being sarcastic, but there is a real part that doesn't get why such consternation & hearings?  Is it about the then-Secretary of State?)

    Parent

    Maybe because an ambassador was murdered? (none / 0) (#22)
    by jbindc on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 04:06:00 PM EST
    As I recall, the Foreign Service (5.00 / 2) (#25)
    by christinep on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 04:28:13 PM EST
    has dangerous posts.  Benghazi was certainly known to be one of them.  

    Look, I grant that an Ambassador's death in service needs investigation and that the import of that situation should not be diminished.  But, really, jbindc, did we ever investigate to such a degree the deaths of @200 servicemen in Lebanon? Other foreign service personnel deaths over the years?  Don't you think that the House's obsession resembles--at this point--the search for something to keep any Benghazi story alive? Who is their audience -- revving up for the primaries?  It is hard to get past a conclusion that the House congressional committee is searching for some facts to support the "scandal" story they had long ago claimed.  Meanwhile, what is the $$$$cost of this investigation? (And, does it contribute to the debt?)

    Parent

    Well, if you recall (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by jbindc on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 04:39:56 PM EST
    It was unusual for the ambassador to be at this particular place, since it really isn't a "Foreign Service post".

    And who cares what was or wasn't done in the 1980s??  But if you want a refresher - here's what's happened afterward.

    And please note, this isn't the House asking the questions - it's CNN. Hardly an arm of the House.

    Are you so afraid that something might be found that will hurt Obama that you are suggesting we shouldn't at least ask the questions???

    Parent

    Let me guess about CNN (none / 0) (#40)
    by christinep on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 06:33:16 PM EST
    and let me go on a further limb and make a guess (based on some of the operatives who were found to issue their concerns during the first phase of Issa's hearings) that we are seeing what you can always find in any controversy ... there are always a few disgruntled employees who would have done things otherwise.  We'll know soon enough, without whipping the story, if there is any there there.

    And, you guessed it, I'm not afraid of continued hearings ... based upon past examples of the "scandals," it tends to back-fire & actually help the WH.  So, let's see.

    Parent

    And that's what it's all about (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by jbindc on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 01:58:59 PM EST
    As long as it helps the WH, that's all that really matters.


    Parent
    Or, for some people, it IS all about (none / 0) (#94)
    by christinep on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 06:05:37 PM EST
    hurting the WH. I suspect.

    Parent
    I want someone "asking questions" (none / 0) (#74)
    by jondee on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 12:40:35 PM EST
    who wouldn't accuse Obama of being in the pocket of the handkerchief lobby if he blew his nose in public.

    And no, I'm not talking about you, jb. Not at all.

    Parent

    That's been my feeling for the longest time (5.00 / 2) (#35)
    by sj on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 05:02:59 PM EST
    It is hard to get past a conclusion that the House congressional committee is searching for some facts to support the "scandal" story they had long ago claimed.
    This information has brought me up short and now I do want to know more.

    And I don't give a flying fig what the $$$$cost of this investigation is. Or if it contributes to the debt.

    Parent

    What bothered me (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by Mikado Cat on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 11:26:54 PM EST
    is that early on the whole mess in Benghazi struck me as political. Jimmy Carter lost an election after a failed rescue attempt, and my feeling is that may have played a greater role than any diplomatic or logistical issues.

    Parent
    Yep (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by sj on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 04:32:51 PM EST
    and also maybe because the CIA has put down such chokehold on information from those who where there.

    Parent
    Which was the point of the article (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by jbindc on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 04:40:31 PM EST
    posted in the first place.

    Parent
    I know (none / 0) (#33)
    by sj on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 04:55:34 PM EST
    I meant to respond to christine but got distracted.

    Parent
    1912 Eighth Grade Examination (none / 0) (#8)
    by Wile ECoyote on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 02:26:05 PM EST
    for Bullitt County Schools.  Give it a shot.  

    Learned a new word: "Kalsomining." (none / 0) (#10)
    by Anne on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 02:48:46 PM EST
    It's a lime paint/whitewash.

    Parent
    Tom Sawyer used it on the fence... (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by fishcamp on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 06:31:05 PM EST
    And it's no fun to remove (none / 0) (#11)
    by shoephone on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 03:22:16 PM EST
    especially from ceilings. The stuff just falls apart, because it's mostly chalky material mixed with glue and water. Laborious removal, to say the least. And then major cleaning and prep to recover with new paint. When it's underneath old wall paper is the worst.

    Parent
    The horsehair plaster we found (none / 0) (#16)
    by Anne on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 03:44:19 PM EST
    under the wallpaper in our old house was not much fun to deal with, either.

    Laborious AND creepy/hideous.

    Parent

    Don't think (none / 0) (#52)
    by Mikado Cat on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 11:36:45 PM EST
    I passed.

    Parent
    Has BTD surfaced? (none / 0) (#20)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 04:01:41 PM EST


    It appears he swims by with scuba gear (5.00 / 4) (#45)
    by CoralGables on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 07:33:50 PM EST
    pops above the surface momentarily, sees a daily Voldemort thread and resubmerges again.

    Parent
    I'll cast a lure (5.00 / 2) (#47)
    by ruffian on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 08:35:28 PM EST
    It's not much, but it's not nothing (none / 0) (#46)
    by ruffian on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 08:32:50 PM EST
    They finally sell Fat Tire beer in Florida stores. At least my local one, which is all that really matters.

    Down here we only get (none / 0) (#70)
    by fishcamp on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 10:48:54 AM EST
    Fat Bastard wine.

    Parent
    It appears that (none / 0) (#64)
    by Edger on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 08:50:51 AM EST
    someone in the Senate office building has attempted to edit the Wikipedia page for "Edward Snowden" to change the word "dissident" to "traitor"

    The attempted revision link is here.

    Screenshot taken at 6am this morning here.

    IP Address 156.33.241.5 is United States Senate.

    Someone from Schumer's office? (5.00 / 3) (#72)
    by shoephone on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 12:19:46 PM EST
    I heard UpChuck Schumer on the radio yesterday, ranting wildly about Snowden and all the horrible danger he's put our country in, how he belongs in jail, blah, blah, blah. Can't recall if he used the word "traitor" but I think he did. Makes sense to me that someone on his staff would have tried to change the Wikipedia page.

    Parent
    Could be anyone there I guess. (none / 0) (#73)
    by Edger on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 12:27:13 PM EST
    Maybe some staffer who is too effin' dumb to read the first yellow highlighted thing you see when you click an edit link on a wikipedia page?

    "You are not logged in. Your IP address will be publicly visible if you make any edits."

    On second thought maybe it's more likely that a politician would be that effin' dumb?

    In either case it was pretty childish, in my opinion.

    The Edward Snowden page on Wikipedia has since been revised with even the word "dissident" removed, and semi-locked. The message you now see if you click on an edit link on the page is...

    "This page is currently semi-protected and can be edited only by established registered users."



    Parent
    Along with the 'Russia has stabbed us in the back' (none / 0) (#107)
    by ruffian on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 11:16:00 AM EST
    crapola...what game is he playing on this? Is it all just part of the NSA is protecting us from terror and I am 'tough on terror' posture?

    I have never felt so unable to even comprehend the news. Admittedly, I barely try these days because it is so depressing.

    Parent

    Word changed to fugitive (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by MO Blue on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 12:45:04 PM EST
    Edward Joseph Snowden (born June 21, 1983)[1] is an American fugitive who leaked details of several top-secret United States and British government mass surveillance programs to the press.[4][5] Snowden is a former technical contractor for the United States National Security Agency (NSA) and a former employee of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA).


    Parent
    New show I can't wait to see (none / 0) (#65)
    by jbindc on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 08:56:23 AM EST
    Low Winter Sun on AMC, Sun, Aug 11 at 10:00 pm EDT

    With my cable cutting Showtime (none / 0) (#108)
    by ruffian on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 11:17:15 AM EST
    due to a contract dispute midway through the final season of Dexter....I am too. That and Breaking Bad. Yay!

    Parent
    Russia cracks down on American rock band (none / 0) (#71)
    by Politalkix on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 12:07:38 PM EST
    link after flag stunt.

    Mikado Cat (none / 0) (#112)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 02:10:57 AM EST
    Your comments seemed designed to promote a conservative agenda and rile readers. I think you should find another place to comment about politics.