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Finding a Burial Site for Tamerlan Tsarnaev

By Jeralyn, Section Crime in the News
Posted on Sat May 04, 2013 at 01:03:54 PM EST
Tags: Tamerlan Tsarnaev, Boston Marathon Bombing (all tags)
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The funeral director who has Tamerlan Tsarnaev's body says he can't find a cemetary willing to accept his body for burial.

Reportedly, a second autopsy is or has been performed on Tamerlan at the request of the parents or lawyers for Dzhokhar Tsarnaev.

His father said early on they would like his body returned to Dagestan.

The father said he had no hope that Tamerlan's body would be released by the U.S. authorities to be buried in his homeland.

"They won't give us his body," he said, his voice breaking with emotion. "We wont be able to bury him in our land."

Perhaps he will be cremated and his ashes scattered at sea or returned to Russia. Adam Lanza, Timothy McVeigh, Ted Bundy and Klebold and Harris (Columbine) were all cremated. There's a company in Connecticut that arranges burials at sea, three miles offshore in the Long Island Sound.

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    Finding a Burial Site for Tamerlan Tsarnaev | 43 comments (43 topical)

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    Are we really that petty and mean-spirited? (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat May 04, 2013 at 04:41:35 PM EST
    Jeralyn: "The funeral director who has Tamerlan Tsarnaev's body says he can't find a cemetary willing to accept his body for burial." (NOTE: While it's a very common mistake, the correct spelling is "cemetery.")

    I swear, given the opportunity, I believe people would gladly drag Tsarnaev's body behind a pickup truck through the streets of Boston, not unlike what that Somali warlord did to those U.S. Army Rangers in Mogadishu 20 years ago during the infamous "Black Hawk Down" battle.

    We keep insisting we're better than that. It's about time we started acting like it.

    Aloha.

    it is probably a matter of (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by TeresaInPa on Sat May 04, 2013 at 04:52:25 PM EST
    not wanting to be a target of vandals should they bury Tamerlan there.

    Parent
    Maybe but I doubt it (none / 0) (#12)
    by sj on Sat May 04, 2013 at 11:26:58 PM EST
    I think Donald is exactly right and it is "us" being mean-spirited.

    It's all, all so sad and so tragic.

    Parent

    So? (none / 0) (#13)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Sat May 04, 2013 at 11:36:42 PM EST

    Whatsa matta you?  If you won't step up to dispose of the body, don't be so harsh toward others in the same boat.

    Parent

    We live in a Christian nation, true? (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by MKS on Sun May 05, 2013 at 12:57:31 AM EST


    Parent
    Is that your impression (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by sj on Sun May 05, 2013 at 11:57:51 AM EST
    of an Italian accent?  Nice.  (not really)

    What boat is that exactly?  How do you propose I "dispose" of the body?  Are you saying I should become a licensed undertaker?  Once again, what are talking about? You are making zero sense.

    But let me ask you this: do you have an objection to laying him to rest in your intended burial place?  I don't. He is still a human being.

    Parent

    Well step right up (none / 0) (#41)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Tue May 07, 2013 at 01:28:48 PM EST
    .

    Well step right up and offer to take care of the body yourself.  

    .

    Parent

    THAT'S your argument? (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by Yman on Tue May 07, 2013 at 02:41:15 PM EST
    Oy.

    Parent
    The man has family; where to bury their (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by Anne on Tue May 07, 2013 at 03:32:26 PM EST
    family member is their decision, not mine or yours or anyone else's.

    He's dead.  He's not going to hurt anyone, although his death has managed to reveal a lot of ugliness in people who like to think they have the moral high ground.  Kind of ironic.

    Ignorance just abounds, which is the saddest thing of all.

    Parent

    well of course (none / 0) (#16)
    by TeresaInPa on Sun May 05, 2013 at 07:13:45 AM EST
    it must be "us" (by which you mean "them" because if you were in the cemetery business you would do the right thing) being mean spirited. There couldn't be a more logical business decision.

     It's so easy and satisfying to be sanctimonious and judgmental.  I think you should get a special permit and have Tamerlan buried on your property.  At least when your neighbors tear your place apart you won't have to worry about loss of future business.

    Parent

    You're the only one (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by sj on Sun May 05, 2013 at 12:02:03 PM EST
    talking about vandalism. I haven't seen anyone in the news express that concern. I've seen concern about protesters, yes.  But in any case, the remains are not responsible for the criminal actions of others. If you wanted to vandalize his grave, you would be the criminal.

    I will continue to be sanctimonious and judgmental about your mean-spiritedness.

    Parent

    A moving part of Bugliosi's book on the (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by ruffian on Sat May 04, 2013 at 05:17:06 PM EST
    JFK assassination, which I just listed to and talked about in the thread the other day, was his description of the Oswald's family attempt to get a burial site and any kind of minister to hold a funeral  service for LH Oswald. His brother Robert comes across as a very decent guy, trying to deal with both his mother, who seemed to have some mental issues, and Marina who spoke little English, and at the same time dealing with the Secret Service, FBI, and Dallas Police who rightly so needed the body for evidence for a couple of days.

    The Secret Service even went to bat for him calling local ministers and chaplains until they finally found one that would do a brief graveside service. Not a lot of charity to a grieving, confused, blameless family.

    Contrasted with the compassion of Jackie Kennedy who spoke of having common cause with Marina Oswald as new widows.

    Parent

    a very sad situation (none / 0) (#18)
    by TeresaInPa on Sun May 05, 2013 at 07:55:59 AM EST
    and unfortunately the world has changed and not for the better.  What we have now is the image of the mother who blames America and states that her sons have been set up.  There is nothing sympathetic about her.  Where is the father?  Why are neither of the parents here?  Where is the support for these young men growing up in this country?
    We have two sons who grew up here with all the advantages of any other American kid, yet fell in to a radical branch of Islam, decided to become terrorists. They blew people up and among other things, murdered a little child. Americans tend to resent that. Oswald was one thing, a lone gunman, not a part of an ongoing "Holy war" against the west.

    I think some one will get him buried.  I can't blame the U.S. for not wanting his body to go back to eastern Europe where his grave site could become a shrine for would be recruits and knuckle-headed  Jr Jihadists. So I am betting that some one in the government will step in and come up with a solution.

    Parent

    Good point, Donald from Hawaii! (none / 0) (#40)
    by mplo on Mon May 06, 2013 at 08:30:42 PM EST
    I'm not about to glorify Tsarnaev either, nor turn a blind eye and/or a deaf ear to his actions, but that doesn't give people the right to be so disgustingly mean-spirited and petty.

    This:

     

    We keep insisting we're better than that. It's about time we started acting like it

    absolutely says it all, in a nutshell, Donald from Hawaii.  Thanks for your points well taken.

    Parent

    Righteous revenge is so cool (none / 0) (#43)
    by jondee on Tue May 07, 2013 at 02:43:38 PM EST
    and cathartic. Everyone gets to be Yahweh for a day. Or for fifteen minutes.

    If any message gets sent out 24/7 in our society, that's close to being it..

    It's also wonderful recruiting tool for the military and law enforcement..

    "Be he agent or be he principal, I will wreak my hate upon him.."

    Parent

    Real tacky (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by vicndabx on Sat May 04, 2013 at 10:12:32 PM EST
    The guy is dead and beyond the cares  of this world. The only people punished at this point are the family. IMO, they are victims along with everyone else.

    Again, and again, (5.00 / 2) (#15)
    by NYShooter on Sun May 05, 2013 at 01:52:51 AM EST
    we see the religion racket displayed in all its glory. I'm certainly not going to go the other way and glorify Tsarnaev either, but, c'mon, the man is dead. Isn't this the point where God steps in, adds up the chips, and makes his/her eternal decision? The only thing that's shocking is that we're shocked when Christians (or Muslims, or Jews, or ....) don't behave very Christian-like..........even when his supposed soul has left us and is in the hands of "Him."

    The only thing that episodes like this show is that there are times when all religions come together and show their unity.................hypocrisy.  


    IIRC cremation is (none / 0) (#1)
    by MO Blue on Sat May 04, 2013 at 01:26:16 PM EST
    Haram(prohibited, not allowed) in the religion of Islam. This seems to be confirmed by wikipedia.

    Islam

    Islam strictly forbids cremation, and stresses that the human body must be treated with respect both while alive and when dead.[30] Islam has specific rites for the treatment of the body after death.

    I do not know enough about the religion to know if there are any exceptions.

    Allowing his family in Russia to bury him there would IMO be the best solution.

    His family can (none / 0) (#2)
    by CoralGables on Sat May 04, 2013 at 01:32:57 PM EST
    His body was released to his parents side of the family Thursday afternoon at the request of his wife.

    Parent
    I'm not sure that releasing his body (none / 0) (#3)
    by MO Blue on Sat May 04, 2013 at 02:09:23 PM EST
    to his parents side of the family and giving permission to transport the body out of the U.S. are one and the same thing. Maybe some of the lawyers here could clarify. He has family members who live in the U.S.

    "Of course, family members will take possession of the body," uncle Ruslan Tsarni of Montgomery Village, Md., told The Associated Press on Tuesday night. "We'll do it. We will do it. A family is a family."

    He would not elaborate. Tsarnaev's parents are still in Russia, but he has other relatives on his side of the family in the U.S., including Tsarni. link

    Of course if you have a link to something that states his body can be transported to Russia, I would be interested in reading it.

    Parent

    No links on body transport (none / 0) (#4)
    by CoralGables on Sat May 04, 2013 at 03:08:31 PM EST
    for this case. The only person I know that was transported was sent in the cargo hold of a passenger plane. I would think that's quite common all over the world. Googling Worldwide funeral shipping amd International funeral shipping just now gets plenty of hits. It looks like a regular and popular business venture.

    I would note in this article on the funeral home that picked up the body, I'm impressed by the funeral home. But (IMHO) the people that would question why his funeral home is handling the arrangements are little different than those less than fine folks at Westboro Baptist Church.

    Parent

    Let me (none / 0) (#5)
    by CoralGables on Sat May 04, 2013 at 03:27:56 PM EST
    try that link again

    Parent
    Might be a poplar business venture (none / 0) (#6)
    by MO Blue on Sat May 04, 2013 at 03:40:20 PM EST
    under normal circumstances but then again I don't think they do a booming business in shipping alleged terrorists. From the what I can determine, you need some type of permit to ship the body out of the country and the destination country must agree to accept the body. I can think of several reasons why both the U.S. and Russia would be reluctant to expedite moving the body to Russia.

    BTW, I already read the article and am in complete agreement with your opinion contained in your 2nd. paragraph:

    ....I'm impressed by the funeral home. But (IMHO) the people that would question why his funeral home is handling the arrangements are little different than those less than fine folks at Westboro Baptist Church.

     

    Parent

    Personally, (none / 0) (#17)
    by lentinel on Sun May 05, 2013 at 07:18:41 AM EST
    I can understand why a cemetery might refuse to bury him.

    If somebody close to me was buried there, I would not particularly welcome a mass murderer (alleged) to be planted next to grandma.

    The whole thing is spooky, but that is not the point.
    People have personal feelings about grave sites, and I think they are entitled to them.

    The actions of our strange government is another matter, however. Why they won't permit the corpse to be transported to some other country where burial would not be problem is really mysterious.

    Isn't the government finished with him yet?
    Haven't they done all the autopsies?

    I would think that everyone would welcome the deportation of the remains of someone who is allegedly guilty of the crimes with which he has been unofficially indicted.

    I know you love to blame the government (none / 0) (#19)
    by CoralGables on Sun May 05, 2013 at 08:26:10 AM EST
    but do you have any info that shows the US won't let him be transported elsewhere?

    It appears the family in the US wants to bury him here and only people like you (that find it spooky) are preventing it from happening.

    Parent

    My (none / 0) (#20)
    by lentinel on Sun May 05, 2013 at 09:00:58 AM EST
    source for my comment about the government was the post by Jeralyn above:

    His father said early on they would like his body returned to Dagestan.

    The father said he had no hope that Tamerlan's body would be released by the U.S. authorities to be buried in his homeland.

    "They won't give us his body," he said, his voice breaking with emotion. "We wont be able to bury him in our land."

    I am not saying that I personally would prevent his body from being buried here. I was simply saying that I can understand how people who feel close to their loved ones who are interred - and derive comfort from visiting their graves, placing flowers and sometimes talking to them in the beyond - and also pay money to the cemetery for those privileges - might be reluctant - or even violated to have a suspected mass murderer in a neighboring plot.

    Parent

    A good example of how (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by CoralGables on Sun May 05, 2013 at 09:16:17 AM EST
    bad info spreads. They hadn't released the body when the father made that statement because the autopsy wasn't yet complete. When the autopsy was done and death certificate filed the body was eligible for release to his wife, who then signed off to have it released to his family, who then claimed it. The quote from his father was old and poorly reported news.

    Parent
    We are all making assumptions based on (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by MO Blue on Sun May 05, 2013 at 10:27:20 AM EST
    not enough information.  Fact: U.S. officials visited Anzor Tsarnaev earlier in the week in his home in Dagestan prior to him making his statement regarding burying his son in Russia.

    Fact:

    The father said he had no hope that Tamerlan's body would be released by the U.S. authorities to be buried in his homeland.

    "They won't give us his body," he said, his voice breaking with emotion. "We wont be able to bury him in our land."

    Did he ask U.S officials about transporting body back to Russia prior to making his statement? Information not available.

    Did he ask Russian officials about transporting body back to Russia prior to making his statement? Information not available.

    Has anyone asked U.S officials or Russian officials whether or not they would allow Tsarnaev's body to be transported to Russia for burial? To the best of my knowledge, this question has never been asked or answered.

    Fact: His wife signed off to have it released to his extended family here in the U.S. They claimed the body and the funeral director who has says he can't find a cemetary willing to accept his body for burial.

    The reason they are attempting to bury him here is unclear.


    Parent

    Only quibble is (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by CoralGables on Sun May 05, 2013 at 10:38:52 AM EST
    with your factual section above. The father made that claim prior to the body being released as he likely didn't understand the process of the autopsy when a crime had been committed. That now makes his claim old and irrelevant since they now have the body.

    Other than that you are right on point. I would suggest two possible reasons for him not being transported to the parents home country: 1) financial (the family is obviously responsible for that cost); 2) their home country may have turned them down.

    Parent

    The factual statement was what the father (5.00 / 3) (#32)
    by MO Blue on Sun May 05, 2013 at 01:37:46 PM EST
    said. He was quoted as saying:

    The father said he had no hope that Tamerlan's body would be released by the U.S. authorities to be buried in his homeland.

    "They won't give us his body," he said, his voice breaking with emotion. "We wont be able to bury him in our land."

    Once again the fact that the body was released to his relatives here in the U.S. does not mean that the U.S. has granted permission for the body to be transported to Russia. Nor does it mean that the father did not understand the process. That is just an assumption. It is possible that he did not understand the process or he could have been told that he could not transport the body to Russia when he talked with U.S officials prior to making his statement. As stated, we do not know one way or the other. The other reasons that you mentioned

    1) financial (the family is obviously responsible for that cost); 2) their home country may have turned them down.
     

    are also possible. We just don't know all of the details. Assumptions one way or another are not facts. They are opinions.

    Parent

    So, (none / 0) (#24)
    by lentinel on Sun May 05, 2013 at 09:41:39 AM EST
    are you saying that at this time the government is willing to let the body be transported and buried in Dagestan?

    That would be compassionate if true.

    Parent

    Sigh....a Muslim's body cannot be cremated (none / 0) (#21)
    by Militarytracy on Sun May 05, 2013 at 09:04:03 AM EST


    Burying body at sea not a good option (none / 0) (#23)
    by MO Blue on Sun May 05, 2013 at 09:29:43 AM EST
    according to Islam. This was discussed when bin Laden was buried at sea.

    Finally, the burial at sea issue: according to Muslim burial rituals, the interment process must take place as soon as possible after death. It includes: bathing the dead body; shrouding the body in a white cotton or linen cloth; performing the funeral prayer; burying the body in a grave, and; positioning the deceased so that the head is facing towards the holy city of Mecca.

    A wide range of senior Islamic scholars have interpreted bin Laden's burial at sea as a humiliating disregard for standard Muslim burial practice. Sheik Ahmed al-Tayeb, the grand Imam of Cairo's al-Azhar mosque, Sunni Islam's highest seat of learning, observed that bin Laden's burial at sea "runs contrary to the principles of Islamic laws, religious values and humanitarian customs."

    Dubai's Grand Mufti said "Sea burials are permissible for Muslims in extraordinary circumstances... This is not one of them." (Sea burials are permitted where the death occurs aboard a ship far from land and there are sanitary issues.) ....
    Quick burial before sunset is a prevailing (none / 0) (#25)
    by Militarytracy on Sun May 05, 2013 at 09:48:48 AM EST
    importance in the faith.  That is why burial at sea is acceptable inspite of the controversy that some attempted to create.

    Tamerlan Tsarnaev's body has missed that form of respect by miles though already, but as soon as his body is released...the day of, it should go through the ritual washing by same sex Muslims (I think his wife is permitted to participate) and then immediate ritual shrouding followed by immediate prayers and burial.

    Muslim's are usually buried where they die and bodies are not transported around because of the observance of burial before sunset.  That is also why burial at sea is acceptable.  Do our regulations allow for cadavers to be buried at sea though?

    Parent

    I know that was the opinion put forth (none / 0) (#26)
    by MO Blue on Sun May 05, 2013 at 10:16:44 AM EST
    by the U.S. A better justification in the case of bin Laden might have been:

    Burial at sea is rare in Islam, though several Muslim websites say it is permitted in certain circumstances.

    One is on a long voyage where the body may decay before the ship reaches land. The other is if there is a risk of enemies digging up a land grave and exhuming or mutilating the body - a rule that could plausibly be applied in Bin Laden's case.

    Just found the "exhuming or mutilating the body" exception which could be applied to Tamerlan Tsarnaev as well.


    Parent

    Since the buried before sunset requirement (none / 0) (#28)
    by MO Blue on Sun May 05, 2013 at 10:33:35 AM EST
    cannot be met, I still feel that he should be buried in Russia if that is what his parents want.  

    Parent
    It looks like the body wrangling is moving forward (none / 0) (#33)
    by gbrbsb on Mon May 06, 2013 at 08:26:49 AM EST
    with W Breault kick-starting a fund with $500 of the $3-4000 calculated to send it to Russia. And it's only a body... no christian mercy even for a body... for the family... for a little girl?  Even Achilles repented!

    Parent
    It would be nice (none / 0) (#34)
    by CoralGables on Mon May 06, 2013 at 08:48:10 AM EST
    if William Breault were doing this out of the kindness of his heart. On the contrary, he sounds more like someone protesting outside the funeral home.

    Here are a couple of his quotes:

    "We don't want him buried here in the city."

    "Why should we accept somebody who is accused of a terrorist act?"  

    Sometimes however, even wrong intentions can lead to the right outcome.

    Parent

    Good Lord...does this guy (5.00 / 2) (#38)
    by Anne on Mon May 06, 2013 at 02:14:06 PM EST
    know that Lee Harvey Oswald is buried in Fort Worth, Texas?  I haven't heard anyone clamoring to dig up Albert DeSalvo and move him out of the Peabody, MA cemetery where he's buried.  

    Tamerlan Tsarnaev isn't going to harm anyone from the grave; burying him in a cemetery isn't going to deconsecrate the ground.  

    The ignorance on display is just embarrassing.

    Parent

    Yes I noticed the generosity had an edge. (none / 0) (#37)
    by gbrbsb on Mon May 06, 2013 at 01:17:45 PM EST
    For whoever's or wherever's or whatever's sake it's a cadaver! makes one wonder where they bury child molesters, drug dealers, and other insalubrious folk and mark me the same would happen here. A discreet release and burial and who would have been the wiser. But then see the blogs baying for the hanging, drawing and quartering of 19 year old Phillipos, and he's a Christian!

    Parent
    Comment by funeral director (none / 0) (#35)
    by MO Blue on Mon May 06, 2013 at 08:49:29 AM EST
    Stefan said Monday he's looking outside of Massachusetts and doesn't think Russia will take the body.

    At this point, I would hope that someone would finally ask both the U.S. and Russia if they would allow the body to be transported to Russia. Some official clarification would be appreciated.

    Parent

    Little known issue for Cambridge (none / 0) (#36)
    by CoralGables on Mon May 06, 2013 at 12:57:16 PM EST
    Under state law in Massachusetts, the city of Cambridge is required to bury the body of indigent residents if they are asked.

    I think the funeral home owner was relying on (none / 0) (#39)
    by Militarytracy on Mon May 06, 2013 at 05:24:59 PM EST
    that.  I see that he gets a lot of credit locally for preparing many of the poor for burial.  I wonder how they are legally getting around burying Tamerlan's body?

    Parent
    Finding a Burial Site for Tamerlan Tsarnaev | 43 comments (43 topical)

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