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Thursday Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Thu May 23, 2013 at 08:38:00 AM EST
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Lots of work today. Here's an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    Thursday Open Thread | 156 comments (156 topical)

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    Article (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu May 23, 2013 at 07:04:15 AM EST
    on the new healthcare law and how some employers are going to offer basically junk insurance to their employees. link

    A lot of us predicted that here.

    Wow (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by MO Blue on Thu May 23, 2013 at 07:15:30 AM EST
    Who could have predicted that the insurance protection act would result in more and more junk insurance. :-(

    Parent
    Yep (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by jbindc on Thu May 23, 2013 at 07:44:14 AM EST
    And as I posted a couple of days ago...some unions aren't happy with what's probably about to happen to their insurance plans. (Emphasis mine)

    In a new op-ed published in The Hill, UFCW President Joe Hansen homed in on the president's speech at the 2009 AFL-CIO convention. Obama at the time said union members could keep their insurance under the law, but Hansen writes "that the president's statement to labor in 2009 is simply not true for millions of workers."

    Republicans have long attacked Obama's promise that "nothing in this plan will require you to change your coverage or your doctor." But the fact that unions are now noting it as well is a clear sign that supporters of the law are growing anxious about the law's implementation.

    Many UFCW members have what are known as multi-employer or Taft-Hartley plans. According to the administration's analysis of the Affordable Care Act, the law does not provide tax subsidies for the roughly 20 million people covered by the plans. Union officials argue that interpretation could force their members to change their insurance and accept more expensive and perhaps worse coverage in the state-run exchanges.

    Hansen, who is also the head of the Change to Win labor federation, told The Hill that his members often negotiate with their employers to receive better healthcare services instead of higher wages. Those bargaining gains could be wiped away because some employers won't have the incentive to keep their workers' multi-employer plans without tax subsidies.



    Parent
    In the article (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu May 23, 2013 at 08:59:20 AM EST
    it states that these insurance plans offer no hospitalization which is what really runs up the costs of medical care in this country. So these plans are going to do nothing about the cost shifting that has been going on and they are also counting on sick people not taking the insurance therefore shifting that cost over to the taxpayers. I guess as long as these people are making money, it doesn't matter than the taxpayers are left holding the bag. This article is the best advocate for single payer I have seen but I'm sure they did not mean it to be.

    Parent
    Well, (5.00 / 2) (#65)
    by jbindc on Thu May 23, 2013 at 01:26:26 PM EST
    This should keep about 12 million people from the plan...

    Pelosi vows there will be no ObamaCare for illegal immigrants

    This isn't new, but once again illustrates what a cluster-bleep this is going to be.

    Parent

    Big ACA debate.. (none / 0) (#14)
    by kdog on Thu May 23, 2013 at 08:57:35 AM EST
    broke out in the office late yesterday...started with bossman dropping the "prepared to get f*cked cuz I'm too good to get f*cked" hints with our renewal coming July 1, coupled with a mini-Obama rant.  We'll see what happens, but it sounds like switching carriers, self-insuring, junkier insurance, no raise, and/or possibly dropping coverage all together are all on the table.  No raise sounds definite.

    I got my increase letter from Oxford a couple weeks ago...it was bad but not unprecedentedly bad...15% increase for single, higher for family.  I think the year before it was 8-10%???

    If we the employees get any say I think I'd vote for dropping coverage alltogether, as long as we get the cash equal to what they gave Oxford last year.  My co-workers on regular scripts who need to see a doctor regularly didn't seem to keen on that idea.  Selfishly speaking I could probably do better on my own with that cash on the individual market, even as a smoker.  More likely I'd just roll the dice without insurance and use that cash to get some long overdue dental work. The older folks might not make out as well.

    Oh well, like they say in AA I'm gonna try not to worry about things I can't control.  If it goes down bad I know where the door is...came here looking for a job, leave here looking for a job.


    Parent

    You might not be better off (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by jbindc on Thu May 23, 2013 at 11:19:33 AM EST
    If the employer gives you the money instead of the plan, that becomes taxable income.  And as a smoker and partaker of other plant-based things (which of course I KNOW you'd report so as not to commit insurance fraud!), then that would add to your insurance expense. So, you could have a higher tax burden AND higher insurance costs.

    You may, of course, be eligible for a subsidy, based on your income.

    Parent

    Like I said... (none / 0) (#42)
    by kdog on Thu May 23, 2013 at 11:45:39 AM EST
    I'd probably roll them bones and go uninsured...cha-ching if I won that bet! ;)

    And if the insurance industry was on the up and up...the reefer use should get me a better premium. It's a stress killer and stress kills good health.  Plus it keeps my weight down, and keeps diabetes and bladder cancer at bay.  I thought you kept up with the news? :)

    But as we well know the health insurance industry is the furthest thing from on the up and up.

    Parent

    Hey I keep up with the news! (none / 0) (#50)
    by jbindc on Thu May 23, 2013 at 12:24:21 PM EST
    But the insurance company will balance it out with things like research showing that smoking five joints a week is equivalent to smoking a pack of cigarettes a day - so they will double whammy you!

    Parent
    Depends on your state (none / 0) (#53)
    by nycstray on Thu May 23, 2013 at 12:30:44 PM EST
    in CA they can't charge you more if you smoke . . .

    Parent
    I didn't think that law had passed yet. (none / 0) (#61)
    by jbindc on Thu May 23, 2013 at 12:56:53 PM EST
    Last I saw (last month), it was still working it's way through the California legislature....

    Parent
    If it does pass... (none / 0) (#64)
    by kdog on Thu May 23, 2013 at 01:22:47 PM EST
    the anti-smoking zealots are gonna have a conniption.

    Parent
    Hmmm . . . (none / 0) (#79)
    by nycstray on Thu May 23, 2013 at 01:54:31 PM EST
    That is in part because California rejected an option under the federal law that allows companies to charge smokers up to 50 percent more for their premiums. Additionally, insurance companies are required to accept all applicants regardless of their medical histories and cannot charge older customers more than three times what younger customers pay.

    link

    Parent
    It must have passed (none / 0) (#86)
    by jbindc on Thu May 23, 2013 at 02:11:14 PM EST
    since the end of April, when I last saw news about it.

    Thanks.

    Parent

    I've known very few if any people who've ... (none / 0) (#84)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu May 23, 2013 at 02:07:07 PM EST
    ... bogarted joints the way one smokes cigarettes, unless it's for specific medicinal purposes. From my own experience, sharing a joint was always a form of social ritual I partook with friends and acquaintances. (I don't smoke anything any more because I've become asthmatic, and even second-hand smoke can cause me no small amount of respiratory distress.)

    Parent
    5 a week doesn't seem like many (none / 0) (#85)
    by jbindc on Thu May 23, 2013 at 02:10:24 PM EST
    if you are a regular user.

    I could be wrong.

    Parent

    What I'm saying is that a joint ... (none / 0) (#93)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu May 23, 2013 at 02:29:20 PM EST
    ... is usually shared by two or more people, so really, if you rolled five joints a week, you actually only smoked about 20-50% of them. But that said, I can certainly see how marijuana smoke itself can potentially be more detrimental health-wise than cigarette smoke, given that we generally don't use filters to reduce the tar.

    When I was a cigarette addict, at the very most I averaged about a little over a half-pack per day over the 20 years I was a smoker. Still, my maternal grandmother used to nag me relentlessly about my smoking to the point where I finally promised her in 1996 that I'd quit -- if only to get her off my friggin' back. I quit in October of that year (Halloween, actually), which of course made her very happy. In retrospect, she did me a huge favor by harping after me like that.

    Parent

    I don't know about that (none / 0) (#94)
    by jbindc on Thu May 23, 2013 at 02:32:14 PM EST
    I know several people in my immediate circle who are marijuana smokers, and they tend to smoke alone when they are at home.  And I know they do it a lot, so it wouldn't be a stretch to think they consume a joint a day.

    Parent
    That's like drinking alone, jb. (none / 0) (#98)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu May 23, 2013 at 02:37:11 PM EST
    In that regard, it's certainly not good for you, and the potential for serious abuse is probably much greater.

    Parent
    What if you live alone? Are you not (none / 0) (#104)
    by Anne on Thu May 23, 2013 at 02:46:21 PM EST
    supposed to have a drink or indulge in whatever relaxing substance that people who don't live alone indulge in?

    What's bad for you is doing anything for the wrong reasons, not whether you do it alone or in a crowd.  So, if you drink or smoke to escape, or self-medicate your anxiety, or because you're depressed, or you want to feel less shy, then maybe you'll have an issue - but you can have that issue even if you don't live alone.

    Times when my husband was out of town or working late, I'd come home and have a glass of wine just like I would if he were home - and guess what?  Nothing terrible happened!

    By your reasoning, people who live alone probably shouldn't watch TV, or eat, or go online - the potential for abuse is just way too great...

    Parent

    "Anne drinks alone.... (none / 0) (#115)
    by kdog on Thu May 23, 2013 at 03:11:30 PM EST
    yeah with nobody else.  And you know when she drinks alone, she prefers to be by herself."

    I Drink Alone, George Thorogood and The Destroyers

    Parent

    I guess I should be more specific (none / 0) (#108)
    by jbindc on Thu May 23, 2013 at 02:57:48 PM EST
    While I don't know all their personal habits, these people have spouses or significant others.

    In a few of the cases, the spouse / SO does not indulge in marijuana, so in that sense, my friends are "smoking alone", but they are not alone in the house, and the other people in the house know what's going on (none of them have children in the house).

    Parent

    Usually... (none / 0) (#110)
    by kdog on Thu May 23, 2013 at 03:02:11 PM EST
    when I'm smoking alone it's strictly the bong...joints are best shared, too much for one person one session, at least how I roll 'em.

    Parent
    joints are so wasteful, (none / 0) (#124)
    by NYShooter on Thu May 23, 2013 at 06:20:56 PM EST
    with bongs, you take a hit, or two, and don't waste any good stuff between puffs.

    IOW, "a little goes a long way."

    Parent

    Kdog, a 15% increase on an individual plan (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by shoephone on Thu May 23, 2013 at 12:22:31 PM EST
    is huge, IMO. But I agree with jb that trying to self-insure would cost you much more and not cover as much.

    Incidentally, I used to know the guy who's the president and CEO of Oxford. Never could stand him. He was the uptight killjoy at every social gathering. His current salary package with Oxford nets him about $5 million a year. Maybe you should write him a letter and ask him if he might swing a little your way so you can cover the 15% increase he just dropped in your lap.

    Parent

    An uptight killjoy? (none / 0) (#58)
    by kdog on Thu May 23, 2013 at 12:52:16 PM EST
    Now I really want out! If you're gonna make 5 million a year off the backs of broked*cks at least have the decency to spend it on blow and ice statues that p*ss Grey Goose. I mean c'mon man, what kinda fuedal lord are you! ;)

    I'd write the letter, but why waste the paper and ink harassing his secretary...it's the same thing as b*tching to the teller at Chase about Jaime Nickel and Dimon.

     

    Parent

    He blows it on grandiose homes (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by shoephone on Thu May 23, 2013 at 02:27:31 PM EST
    Last I heard, he and his wife are the current residents of Martha Stewart's  Connecticut estate at "Turkey Hill."

    Parent
    Good to know... (5.00 / 3) (#105)
    by kdog on Thu May 23, 2013 at 02:47:05 PM EST
    god forbid I get a terminal illness and hit my lifetime cap, I'll go die on his lawn.

    Parent
    Yeah (none / 0) (#17)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu May 23, 2013 at 09:02:01 AM EST
    my husband's former boss used to go on rants monthly at the meetings. But here's the rub: they don't want to pay for anything but the hospitals don't let you go there for free. They do not offer any solutions to the problem.

    Parent
    The worst part... (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by kdog on Thu May 23, 2013 at 09:19:05 AM EST
    was some of my Foxafied co-workers egging on the bossman.  Never let it be said that the working person in this country isn't their own worst enemy.  Whatever sour deal we get will be all Obama's fault in their eyes.  Of course Obama bears some responsibility for this more shady than sunny ACA deal, along with Congress, but there is so much blame to go around in the private sector too.  Even blame in the mirror.

    Parent
    You should've asked them and bossman... (none / 0) (#29)
    by Dadler on Thu May 23, 2013 at 10:27:31 AM EST
    ...if it's factually possible for the Federal Government to go financially broke. When you hit them with no, it's not possible, the heads woulda spun. You're right, Americans help dig their own graves every day with their apathy and ignorance of how the game really works. The federal government could provide healthcare for all in a financial heartbeat. The problem ain't financial, it's simply ethical and moral and political -- no one wants to care about anyone else but themselves. And, of course, Americans are largely brainwashed to think of money as a living breathing thing, a thing that, they have been taught since birth, matter much more than we do as people.

    An absurd state of delusion is what we live in. At least I got the legal herbals out here. ;-)

    Parent

    check out my little comic (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by Dadler on Thu May 23, 2013 at 10:29:06 AM EST
    kind of related. sort of. but funny either way. (link)

    Parent
    LOL... (none / 0) (#40)
    by kdog on Thu May 23, 2013 at 11:37:20 AM EST
    Dude, bossman is one of those whose whole sense of self-worth is tied to his bank balance...if I even attempted to explain your enlightened views on currency his head would explode...and he already thinks I'm a pinko-commie;)

    Love the new Tea Party Girl cartoon!

    Parent

    You'd have to wear a hazmat suit (none / 0) (#44)
    by Dadler on Thu May 23, 2013 at 11:52:02 AM EST
    no doubt. good exit speech tho, if you do quit. whatever happens, hope you don't get too screwed on the healthcare. and too bad you don't live in my old stomping grounds down near tijuana way. i have a few friends who got dental work done in Mexico, for much less than here obviously, when they had to do what they had to do. and i don't recall any of them complaining about the work done.

    got lots of tunes, gonna try to do them as a daily exercise. many funny ones in the vault to come.

    Parent

    Mexico Dental... (none / 0) (#46)
    by kdog on Thu May 23, 2013 at 12:08:56 PM EST
    is the next step, I've been researching the dental resorts where you stay for a few weeks and bang out your dental work...I think I'm done with the dental school clinic, the price is right and no complaints with the work except it takes so much longer, but it's such a hassle to get in there and it's only during work hours.  Not to knock it, it has been a lifesaver and I'm grateful.  If I lived on the border I'd be all over it.

    To be honest with myself I haven't made it the priority I should...if I locked down in serious no spending hermitude for a year or two I could do what needs to be done, but I have a real hard time living like that...you know me, I like to live it up as much as I can and allocate limited resources to pleasure.  I'd feel like an arsehole if I missed all those shows and dropped 10 grand on my teeth then got hit by a bus;)  And really, at the end of the day, it's just vanity.

    Parent

    Mortality is a b*tch (none / 0) (#47)
    by Dadler on Thu May 23, 2013 at 12:22:25 PM EST
    Makes you do all kinds of crazy stuff, like actually enjoy life if you can. Imagine that.

    Sadly, too many people can't. And they're usually the ones in charge.

    You're on the right path, no doubt about that, Mr. Whitman.


    Parent

    I've noticed that people who grow older ... (none / 0) (#89)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu May 23, 2013 at 02:15:43 PM EST
    ... and allow their teeth to deteriorate also tend to be more prone to other potentially serious health issues. That's simply my own observation, so take that anecdote for what it's worth.

    Parent
    Dental health and heart health (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by jbindc on Thu May 23, 2013 at 02:22:43 PM EST
    Are corrleated.

    Parent
    That really doesn't surprise me at all. (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu May 23, 2013 at 02:35:12 PM EST
    It's always been my position that dental coverage should be inclusive within any health insurance benefits package. Within the community health centers where I work, dental care is part of the continuum of health care provided to patient-clients, and the dentist is considered an integral part of the health care team.

    Parent
    just don't have gum surgery (none / 0) (#122)
    by Dadler on Thu May 23, 2013 at 03:57:21 PM EST
    it is a scam and a half almost all the time.

    Parent
    Can't imagine opting for it if it was (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by ruffian on Thu May 23, 2013 at 10:48:16 PM EST
    not needed. I had it when I had to have an implant done...truly a horrible experience. I would really have to be a masochist to do it electively.

    Parent
    Tomorrow I am having a tooth pulled and the (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by caseyOR on Thu May 23, 2013 at 10:59:47 PM EST
    tissue under that tooth, yes the gum, scrapped clean of the infection that is festering there. Thanks to the wonder that is modern anesthesia, I will be out cold and unaware of anything until the procedure is over. After that, of course, pain will reign.

    The oral surgeon uses the same anesthesia that is given for colonoscopies. I came out of the anesthesia okay after that fun little procedure, so, aside from the gawd awful pain that follows the surgery, tomorrow should be more of the same.

    I have bad reactions to many painkillers, vomiting and insane itching among them.  I am pretty much limited to vicodin. I hope it is up to the task after this dental surgery.

    Parent

    Casey (none / 0) (#134)
    by ScottW714 on Fri May 24, 2013 at 09:07:07 AM EST
    ...when I came out, the pain was miniscule compared to when I went it.

    I am the same way when it comes to pain meds, so much so that sometimes the pain is preferred to what they do to my stomach.  They don't make me sick, just feel like he11, so it's always a line I try not to cross.  I am not advising anything, but for me I figured out that a little alcohol multiplies the pain pills without making fee like sh1t.

    Parent

    Never let it be said... (none / 0) (#145)
    by kdog on Fri May 24, 2013 at 11:45:45 AM EST
    there is no such thing as medicinal scotch.  Last time I had a mild abcess, scotch was the only thing that helped a little.  Swish and swallow enough you'll dull the pain to get to sleep.

    Parent
    Unless You Get Your Scotch... (none / 0) (#147)
    by ScottW714 on Fri May 24, 2013 at 11:58:13 AM EST
    ...at a bar in New Jersey, could turn out to be rubbing alcohol.

    Parent
    Well played... (none / 0) (#150)
    by kdog on Fri May 24, 2013 at 12:32:21 PM EST
    puring Popov in the Absolute bottle is one thing, but these thieves could kill somebody with f*ckin' rubbing alcohol.

    What gets me is what kinda drinker isn't gonna realize instantly they got caramel rubbing alcohol in place of single malt?  

    Parent

    I hope your day and tomorrow (none / 0) (#136)
    by Militarytracy on Fri May 24, 2013 at 09:57:40 AM EST
    Go better than expected.  Josh has those kinds of reactions to painkillers too, my heart goes out to you.

    Parent
    Tried Percocet Captain? (none / 0) (#144)
    by kdog on Fri May 24, 2013 at 11:43:24 AM EST
    I find it to be the best of the bunch...less nausea than Vicodin for me, and much less than the Oxy, which made me puke.  Never had an itching reaction to any though so ymmv.

    Parent
    My father and grandfather both had to have it (none / 0) (#135)
    by Militarytracy on Fri May 24, 2013 at 09:56:00 AM EST
    Done, I think the Sonicare toothbrush changed my fate.  Floss, brush, floss, brush, and I was still losing the battle an inch at a time.  Dentist says my gums are great now for my age, I'm a little ahead of the curve now.

    Parent
    My Abssessed Tooth... (none / 0) (#142)
    by ScottW714 on Fri May 24, 2013 at 11:27:34 AM EST
    ...was infected way up into the nerve, far above the gum line.  I never got answer as to how it happened, but I had a root canal on it when I was in 10th grade.  Like 20 years prior to the abscess.

    I totally concur with the Sonicare, best tooth brush ever, IMO.

    Parent

    I'm off to the dentist in a bit. Thanks for (5.00 / 2) (#143)
    by caseyOR on Fri May 24, 2013 at 11:43:18 AM EST
    the kind words, MT and Scott.

    The weird thing about this infection is that I have no pain. I only know the infection is there because my regular dentist found it on the x-rays she took during my normal cleaning appointment. The tooth itself is okay. The gum tissue under the tooth is infected and not responsive to antibiotics. Sadly, to get to the infection the tooth must be removed.

    When this all heals I get a partial to fill the hole left by the departed tooth. Now I really feel old. Dentures. Geez.

    Hope everyone has a good holiday weekend. I expect to be zoned out on pain pills.

    Parent

    Gum Surgury (none / 0) (#123)
    by ScottW714 on Thu May 23, 2013 at 04:27:40 PM EST
    ...I have had for an abscessed tooth, which was actually covered under my health insurance, which was good, because as everyone knows, dental coverage is a joke.  Didn't cost me a thing.

    And I can't comment about scam or not, but I was in dire pain and they went in an scraped out the infection and packed something in it and sewed me up.  There was no was in he11 I was waiting on antibiotics.

    That is the kind of pain I imagine when I think of torture, unbearable.

    Parent

    I hear ya... (none / 0) (#91)
    by kdog on Thu May 23, 2013 at 02:26:08 PM EST
    which begs the question, who decided dental health is different than, ya know, regular health?  I have never understood why teeth are considered somehow seperate from the body in the eyes of the health care/health insurance industry.

    Parent
    It's even worse (none / 0) (#133)
    by NYShooter on Fri May 24, 2013 at 03:40:01 AM EST
    than you know, kdog. Now, I understand there are many types of insurances and all kinds of coverage, so my experience is based on when I was sort of a big shot in a big, well known company, so you would think the coverage to be pretty good.Most people think when they hear, "dental insurance," you're talking about teeth and the parts of the mouth very closely associated with teeth. And, most believe that those things aren't covered by most insurance plans. Guess what? They're right. But, like you intimated, the very same disease, sickness, or injury, if it happened to, let's say, your ankle, it still wouldn't be covered. Why? Makes no logical sense whatsoever.


    Parent
    Bacteria gone wild, holed up in your gums, (none / 0) (#128)
    by ruffian on Thu May 23, 2013 at 10:46:03 PM EST
    even if you have good dental health. If you have a heart murmur you are recommended to take antibiotics when you get your teeth cleaned because of the release of bacteria into your blood stream.

    Parent
    That has begun to change (none / 0) (#156)
    by Militarytracy on Sat May 25, 2013 at 09:04:11 AM EST
    I have mitral valve prolapse and they don't give me prophylactic antibiotics anymore.  Josh's dentist is very careful with Joshua though because he has so many regular surgeries though his heart seems fine.  He receives regular prophylactic antibiotics for every procedure and cleaning. There was debate about M's stent.  One doctor argued it wasn't an issue and said it was a big issue, but the only factor seemed to be about it being a recent not fully healed procedure and they decided to put off his teeth cleaning all together, I guess instead of standing there arguing with each other.

    Now I'm really confused :)

    Parent

    Choices? (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by MO Blue on Thu May 23, 2013 at 08:11:01 AM EST
    Wonkbook's Number of the Day: $80 million. That's the amount by which Penny Pritzker, Obama's nominee for Commerce Secretary and billionaire heiress to the Hyatt hotel fortune, is reported to have understated her taxable income. link
    More on the Pritzker situation: (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by Anne on Thu May 23, 2013 at 09:01:33 AM EST
    "Chicago billionaire Penny Pritzker inadvertently understated a portion of her income by at least $80 million in a disclosure form required for her nomination to be U.S. Commerce secretary and has amended the document. Forms released online last night by the Office of Government Ethics show that Pritzker earned additional income for consulting work on hundreds of trusts, including family trusts, beyond what she disclosed last week. The omission, discovered by Pritzker's financial advisers, was due to a clerical error, said Susan Anderson, the nominee's spokeswoman." Brian Wingfield in Bloomberg.

    You know you make a lot of money when...an $80 million dollar understatement/omission/error is "inadvertent," and you have trouble keeping track of the hundreds of trusts from which you receive income.

    ::rolling eyes::  

    ::considered banging head on desk, but already have a headache this morning::

    Parent

    Business as usual (none / 0) (#7)
    by jbindc on Thu May 23, 2013 at 08:23:01 AM EST


    Parent
    What more can be said? (none / 0) (#9)
    by Slado on Thu May 23, 2013 at 08:27:33 AM EST
    Do as I say, not as I do.

    You probably didn't watch O'Reilly last night but one of the guests had an interesting theory on the Apple hearings.

    He supposed that it was just a dog and pony show to get some sort of new tax reform through.   That the fake outrage would give the Senate cover to pass corporate friendly tax reform (not personal) that leads to even lower rates for big companies.

    One good point he made is while on paper we have a very high corporate tax rate nobody pays them (nobody that isn't an idiot).


    Parent

    You cite O'Reilly?? (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by MKS on Thu May 23, 2013 at 08:34:25 AM EST
    And someone who does not know but has a theory??

    This is how it becomes fact that Romney will win in a blowout; Saddam Hussein had WMD and was behind 9/11.

    Try facts.

    Parent

    You need to relax (none / 0) (#33)
    by Slado on Thu May 23, 2013 at 10:41:19 AM EST
    I was only commenting on an interesting theory.

    It was actually Lou Dobbs that supposed it and O'Reilly thought it was out there.

    I tend to believe it because I'm cynical of all things government these days and I wouldn't put it pas Levin and his cabal in the Senate.

    Parent

    Lou Dobbs--okay that's (none / 0) (#57)
    by MKS on Thu May 23, 2013 at 12:49:25 PM EST
    better.

    Did you think it is an interesting theory that Hillary killed Vince Foster?

    Parent

    Would you stop being a partisan hack (1.00 / 1) (#62)
    by Slado on Thu May 23, 2013 at 01:19:40 PM EST
    for like 10 seconds?

    He was simply questioning the charade that the Apple Senate hearing was and I found his kooky theory interesting is all.

    Parent

    "hack?" (none / 0) (#67)
    by MKS on Thu May 23, 2013 at 01:27:37 PM EST


    Parent
    It was a dog and pony show... (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by kdog on Thu May 23, 2013 at 09:26:22 AM EST
    Apple's tax dodging is totally legal...last I checked that's what Congress does, decides whats legal and illegal and if the president signs off, voila! It's the law, unless the judiciary shoots it down.

    Rather than drag Apple into Congress for shaming, which is all well and good and deserved but accomplishes d*ck, how about finally bringing some reason and sense to our f*ckin' tax code Congress?  

    Parent

    I just ran across this solution to the tax (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by MO Blue on Thu May 23, 2013 at 12:35:41 PM EST
    problem. I think it is a great idea which means that it has absolutely no chance of being implemented at the federal level.

    Here's how it would work. Let's say a company earns 20 percent of its sales in California. The company would pay 20 percent of its worldwide sales to California at the state's corporate tax rate. No need to worry about where the firm has offices or where its employees work -- and no chance of the firms shifting their income to other states using elaborate, hard-to-trace methods.
    ...
    Adopting California's sales-based corporate tax system would simplify the tax code and level the playing field," he wrote. "Under sales-based apportionment, it is conceivable that a medium-size corporation could file its report on a single sheet of paper attached to its annual Form 10-K filed with the SEC without needing the help of a tax attorney."
    ...
    Such a solution, they wrote, would reflect the globalized way that companies actually do business now. Rather than figure out the location of a company's production -- which can get complicated when an iPhone is designed in Cupertino and manufactured in China -- the taxes would be based on where customers are located. link


    Parent
    Makes sense to me... (none / 0) (#60)
    by kdog on Thu May 23, 2013 at 12:55:29 PM EST
    definitely no chance in hell.  

    Parent
    OK, let's say the rest of the co's sales are (none / 0) (#69)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu May 23, 2013 at 01:35:28 PM EST
    to the other 49 states. Are you suggesting the co then file 50 state tax returns?

    Parent
    Professional athletes do it (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by jbindc on Thu May 23, 2013 at 01:49:51 PM EST
    Maybe not all 50 states, but many states require them to fill out tax returns for however many times they "work" there (i.e. play a game).  Even some cities require they fill out separate tax returns. It's called a "jock tax".

    Athletes are taxed based on "duty days" they spend in each state. In baseball, there are approximately 181 "duty days," meaning a player earning $1.81 million would make $10,000 each duty day. Therefore, if that player's team had three games in California, he would be responsible for taxes on $30,000 of income.

    So, why can't a big corporation (with all their accountants and lawyers) be required to fill out 50 tax forma?

    Parent

    For eight of his first nine major league seasons, (none / 0) (#97)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu May 23, 2013 at 02:35:43 PM EST
    For eight of his first nine major league seasons, Angels pitcher Darren Oliver worked in Texas, where the stars at night are big and bright and, more important, there's no state income tax.

    Yet, each April, he pays a small army of accountants to file more than a hundred pages of returns -- and sometimes checks -- to as many as a dozen states and one province in Canada, covering taxes on income he earned on the road.

    "The book's like this big," Oliver, holding his thumb and index finger a couple of inches apart, says of the tax documents he filed this year.

    As a little corp that does biz in most of our states, I don't think it's reasonable.

    Parent
    I was talking about implementing (none / 0) (#87)
    by MO Blue on Thu May 23, 2013 at 02:13:34 PM EST
    the point of sales method for federal taxation.

    Parent
    You mean if a co sells 60% of its goods (none / 0) (#100)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu May 23, 2013 at 02:39:17 PM EST
    overseas, and 40% in the US, they should pay fed taxes on the 40%?

    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#116)
    by MO Blue on Thu May 23, 2013 at 03:14:14 PM EST
    Pay U.S. federal tax on 40% its worldwide sales at current U.S. federal corporate tax rate.

    Parent
    Seems reasonable to me. (none / 0) (#117)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu May 23, 2013 at 03:18:39 PM EST


    Parent
    Ah, but kdog (none / 0) (#22)
    by MO Blue on Thu May 23, 2013 at 09:43:39 AM EST
    I guarantee that your idea of bringing some reason and sense to our f*ckin' tax code and our pay for play Congress' idea will be drastically different.

    Tax reform via our government will more than likely result in the working poor and the middle class paying more, lowering the corporate rate from 35 to 25 - 28 percent and adopting a "territorial tax system" that would exempt the "Fix the Debt CEO" companies' foreign profits from taxation, netting them about $134 billion in tax savings.

    Parent

    I don't doubt it... (none / 0) (#24)
    by kdog on Thu May 23, 2013 at 09:47:38 AM EST
    but then why is Congress ragging on Apple?  This is they system they designed.  Dog & Pony Show.

    Sem. Levin gives good dog & pony show, I grant him that...but if he is saying what he means, he totally sucks as a legislator.

    Parent

    I still haven't found out what US taxes Apple (none / 0) (#66)
    by Farmboy on Thu May 23, 2013 at 01:26:30 PM EST
    dodged. In 2012 they made $16B profit from US sales, and paid about $6B in taxes. That's 35%, the US corporate tax rate.

    They also made $25B in 2012 from business outside the US, and their quarterly financials show they paid taxes on that money to the appropriate nations.

    So, where's the dodge? I know Cook said the foreign profits are sitting in foreign banks because Apple can't bring it home without paying a penalty, but does Congress think American-based businesses should pay US taxes on money they made outside the US, even when it's already been taxed?

    Parent

    Here's an answer (5.00 / 2) (#68)
    by jbindc on Thu May 23, 2013 at 01:30:51 PM EST
    Apple Tax Rate Ignores Profit Shifting Offshore

    Chief Executive Officer Tim Cook provided a figure to Congress on Tuesday that U.S. companies rarely disclose: its federal tax bill. Apple paid $6 billion last year -- a rate of 30.5 percent.

    "That's more than $16 million each day," Cook said. "We pay all the taxes we owe -- every single dollar."

    While nobody at the hearing questioned the figure, it provides a distorted picture of Apple's total tax burden. Based on its public filings, the company pays just under 14 percent of its income in taxes worldwide, according to Scott D. Dyreng, an assistant professor of accounting at Duke University's business school whose research specializes in the actual tax rates of large U.S. companies.

    Cook's statistical spin goes to the heart of the debate over corporate tax avoidance. By shifting income from countries where they operate to offshore tax havens, multinational companies such as Apple, maker of the iPhone and iPad, can manipulate their tax rates and boost their profit.

    Apple's calculation "ignores the issue of profit shifting, which is the central controversy that was the subject of the hearing," said Martin Sullivan, a former U.S. Treasury Department economist and chief economist at Tax Analysts, a nonprofit organization. "Apple has shifted enormous amounts of profits from the United States to an untaxed entity overseas. That's the issue."

    Then, there's this:

    The 30.5 percent rate asserted by Cook is based on Apple's reported U.S. pretax income last year of $19 billion, about a third of the company's worldwide pretax profits.

    In fact, Senate investigators raised questions about whether Apple shifted billions of dollars offshore that should have been included in its U.S. income. Apple has attributed $30 billion in income since 2009 to an affiliate that is incorporated in Ireland, where it has no employees.



    Parent
    So the Senate claims that Apple has no (none / 0) (#76)
    by Farmboy on Thu May 23, 2013 at 01:46:08 PM EST
    employees in ireland. Apple claims "AOI and other Apple subsidiaries in Ireland play an important role in the Company's international business activities. Established more than thirty years ago, Apple's base of operations in Ireland now employs nearly 4,000 people engaged in manufacturing, customer service, sales support, supply chain and risk management operations and finance support services."

    (transcript of Cook's testimony)

    I guess those Irish factories, warehouses, and 4k employees don't exist if McCain says they don't.

    Parent

    Apple has more than one subsidiary (5.00 / 2) (#121)
    by MO Blue on Thu May 23, 2013 at 03:42:54 PM EST
    in Ireland. Did Cook claim AOI had Irish factories, warehouses, and 4k employees?.

    AOI
        Apple owns 100% of AOI either directly or through controlled foreign corporations.
        AOI owns several subsidiaries, including Apple Operations Europe, Apple Distribution International, and Apple Singapore.
        AOI has no physical presence and has not had any employees for 33 years. It has 2 directors and 1 officer, all Apple Inc. brass. One is Irish, two live in California.
        32 of 33 AOI board meetings were held in Cupertino rather than Cork.
        Shockingly, AOI doesn't pay taxes. Anywhere. The holding company had a net income of $30 billion from 2009 to 2012, but has not declared tax residency in any jurisdiction.
        AOI's income made up 30% of Apple's total world profits from 2009- 2011.

    A key quote from the report explains why AOI exists:

     Apple explained that, although AOI has been incorporated in Ireland since 1980, it has not declared a tax residency in Ireland or any other country and so has not paid any corporate income tax to any national government in the past 5 years. Apple has exploited a difference between Irish and U.S. tax residency rules. Ireland uses a management and control test to determine tax residency, while the United States determines tax residency based upon the entity's place of formation. Apple explained that, although AOI is incorporated in Ireland, it is not tax resident in Ireland, because AOI is neither managed nor controlled in Ireland. Apple also maintained that, because AOI was not incorporated in the United States, AOI is not a U.S. tax resident under U.S. tax law either.

    The subcommittee said AOI and ASI held board meetings in the United States and most board members were based there. That means the units would not be deemed to have Irish management control, accountants said.

    Apple told the subcommittee that AOI's assets are managed by employees at an Apple subsidiary, Braeburn Capital, located in Nevada, while its assets are held in bank accounts in New York, and its primary accounting records are maintained at Apple's U.S. shared service centre in Austin, Texas.




    Parent
    The issue is whether ... (5.00 / 3) (#70)
    by Yman on Thu May 23, 2013 at 01:37:24 PM EST
    ... those figures accurately represent their US income, or whether Apple is using transfer pricing/profit/expense shifting to make their US income appear lower.

    Parent
    So the simple solution is to find out if Cook is (none / 0) (#82)
    by Farmboy on Thu May 23, 2013 at 02:00:12 PM EST
    lying. Cook's statement reads:
    Apple does not use tax gimmicks. Apple does not move its intellectual property into offshore tax havens and use it to sell products back into the US in order to avoid US tax; it does not use revolving loans from foreign subsidiaries to fund its domestic operations; it does not hold money on a Caribbean island; and it does not have a bank account in the Cayman Islands. Apple has substantial foreign cash because it sells the majority of its products outside the US. International operations accounted for 61% of Apple's revenue last year and two-thirds of its revenue last quarter. These foreign earnings are taxed in the jurisdiction where they are earned ("foreign, post-tax income").

    Treasury should check the documents Apple files in the US, and request copies of their foreign tax documents from the respective nations. Or we can listen to McCain ask some more questions about how to use his iPhone.

    Regardless, Cook's testimony and the Senate financial investigators disagree.

    Parent

    Apple pays no tax in many countries (5.00 / 2) (#88)
    by jbindc on Thu May 23, 2013 at 02:13:38 PM EST
    To the tune of tens of billions of dollars.

    The Senate panel's new report focuses on Apple units in Cork, Ireland, where Apple has long based its operations for Europe, the Middle East, India, Africa, Asia and the Pacific. The units are beyond the reach of the Internal Revenue Service, which counts corporations as American if they are incorporated in the U.S.

    But Irish tax law only considers companies residents of the small European country if they are managed and controlled there, and Apple manages them from the U.S.

    The result: Apple pays little or no taxes to either country on much of its revenue earned outside the U.S., according to the report.

    One of the units, Apple Operations International, hasn't filed a corporate tax return anywhere in the past five years, the Senate panel found. The unit is the main holding company for Apple's business outside of the Americas.

    "Despite reporting net income of $30 billion over the four-year period 2009 to 2012, Apple Operations International paid no corporate income taxes to any national government during that period," the report found.



    Parent
    And Cook's under oath testimony claims that (none / 0) (#103)
    by Farmboy on Thu May 23, 2013 at 02:43:17 PM EST
    Apple did pay taxes to foreign governments on their foreign revenue, and that their AOI profits are post-tax, not pre-tax as the committee claimed.

    So the testimony and corporate financial statements are in disagreement with the Senate report. And they can't both be right. Let's get Ken Starr and have him get to the bottom of it.

    Parent

    It's not just Republicans (5.00 / 2) (#111)
    by jbindc on Thu May 23, 2013 at 03:04:19 PM EST
    who are unhappy with Apple (despite your trying to paint it that way).

    "Apple sought the Holy Grail of tax avoidance," Carl Levin (D-Mich.) said, creating entities offshore that claimed no tax residence and helped avoid billions in taxes. "We intend to highlight that gimmick and other Apple offshore tax avoidance tactics so that American working families who pay their share of taxes understand how offshore tax loopholes raise their tax burden, add to the federal deficit and ought to be closed."


    Parent
    Well, the new nominee for (5.00 / 2) (#114)
    by Anne on Thu May 23, 2013 at 03:11:03 PM EST
    Secretary of Commerce, Penny Pritzker, might not be so eager to stop the offshoring of income, given that she earned millions - millions she "inadvertently" forgot to report on her tax returns - from restructuring of domestic trusts that wanted to offshore income...

    Parent
    I have no idea whether ... (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by Yman on Thu May 23, 2013 at 03:10:01 PM EST
    ... Apple is using transfer pricing or other profit/expense shifting methods to pay less taxes.

    My point is that it's not as simple as looking at the profit they claim on their tax returns and comparing it to the tax they pay.  Moreover, investigating this and figuring out the truth will hardly be "simple".

    Parent

    Bingo (none / 0) (#102)
    by MO Blue on Thu May 23, 2013 at 02:41:44 PM EST


    Parent
    A couple of articles (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by MO Blue on Thu May 23, 2013 at 02:39:42 PM EST
    regarding how Apple avoids paying any taxes on some of it subsidiaries:

    The Irish loophole behind Apple's low tax bill

    Apple Avoids Paying $17 Million In Taxes Every Day Through A Ballsy But Genius Tax Avoidance Scheme



    Parent

    Microsoft has been doing this for years. (5.00 / 2) (#109)
    by shoephone on Thu May 23, 2013 at 03:01:58 PM EST
    Escaping billions of dollars of taxation in Washington State, where it's headquartered, by registering companies in states like Nevada, which have no business taxes.

    Parent
    Obviously Donnie is out of his element... (none / 0) (#73)
    by kdog on Thu May 23, 2013 at 01:41:53 PM EST
    but there is a reason they set up a shell shop in Ireland.

    What's wrong with an American corporation paying 35% on their total profit? Not just US sales.  With deductions allowed for any foreign tax obligations as business expenses before getting to their total profit figure.

    Parent

    Do tell (none / 0) (#13)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu May 23, 2013 at 08:53:56 AM EST
    how more conspiracy theories are going to help the GOP? I mean it's not like the majority of Americans don't already think they are sitting on the ledge between sanity and insanity already.

    Parent
    Didn't You Blow a Gasket... (none / 0) (#27)
    by ScottW714 on Thu May 23, 2013 at 10:20:07 AM EST
    ...when I accused you of watching Fox News a couple months back ?  I believe you called it a personal attack on my part.

    Parent
    You probably didn't watch Bugs Bunny ... (none / 0) (#75)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu May 23, 2013 at 01:46:04 PM EST
    Slado: "You probably didn't watch O'Reilly last night but one of the guests had ..."

    ... last night. He said, "What's up, Doc?" And Elmer Fudd retorted, "Ooooh, I'll get you, you wascally wabbit!"

    Cartoons are cartoons, regardless of whether they're animated or live action.

    Parent

    And then there's the amount... (none / 0) (#51)
    by shoephone on Thu May 23, 2013 at 12:27:13 PM EST
    in her overseas accounts... (I rhymed it on purpose, because if it sounds like song lyrics, it leavens the feeling of disgust.)

    Parent
    Charles Ramsey Gets Free Burgers for Life (5.00 / 2) (#21)
    by ScottW714 on Thu May 23, 2013 at 09:38:36 AM EST
    More than a dozen Northeast Ohio restaurants have pledged an offer of a burger anytime Ramsey wants to stop by and dig in.
    LINK

    Funny:

    Ramsey, who has been traveling during a paid leave from his job at Hodges, was not available for comment.
    Awesomeness... (none / 0) (#28)
    by kdog on Thu May 23, 2013 at 10:24:18 AM EST
    a variety of big upgrades from Big Macs too.  Well deserved.

    Parent
    kdog (none / 0) (#32)
    by CoralGables on Thu May 23, 2013 at 10:34:35 AM EST
    I know you don't really want to see this again

    but this morning I was thinking, Carmelo never gets this shot because they know he won't pass. The inside players for the Pacers would have crashed down on Carmelo, and Hibbert would have never been on the bench. With Lebron, the spacing works because they are afraid he'll hit the open man.

    And that easy bucket is what ten assists during the game will get you at the buzzer.

    Parent

    Again? (none / 0) (#36)
    by kdog on Thu May 23, 2013 at 11:14:14 AM EST
    There was a game last night?  I thought basketball season was over! ;)

    Melo actually tried to pass on such a play twice in the 4th Quarter of our Game 6 loss...two turnovers were the result.  There's Lebron, and there is everybody else...as much as it pains me to say.

    Melo is getting killed locally...I'm more disappointed in the performances of Chandler, JR, the player formerly known as Jason Kidd, and Mike Woodson for some of his rotation decisions.  Melo was playing through a torn labrum, his shot wasn't falling like it usually does but he's getting too much criticism imo.  

    Parent

    I agree with you (none / 0) (#38)
    by CoralGables on Thu May 23, 2013 at 11:25:05 AM EST
    The top dog always gets too much criticism from a loss in a team game. The Knicks didn't need everyone to step up. Just one of them other than melo may have sufficed. Like the Birdman who went 7 for 7 last night.

    If I had to pick one Knick to lay blame, I would go with JR Smith. He talked big and shot small. He hit 29% against the Pacers. Nobody in the league shoots 29%. (Except Jason Kidd who shot the equivalent of a donut hole)

    Parent

    Must give credit where due... (none / 0) (#43)
    by kdog on Thu May 23, 2013 at 11:50:47 AM EST
    to the Pacers...they got a young core that can play both ends of the floor and do it all, the Knicks are a roster of specialists.

    I think they'll get 2 wins...Heat in 6.  Hope I'm under-estimating them Pacers again and they shock the world;)

    Parent

    Conscious vs. Subconscious, Vol. 6 (5.00 / 2) (#23)
    by Dadler on Thu May 23, 2013 at 09:46:13 AM EST
    Today's original Dadler comic (link).

    So annoying (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by Lena on Thu May 23, 2013 at 10:43:08 AM EST
    So I scan the headlines on NBC News' webpage (why? why do I do that??) and I notice this: "Woman tells of jumping off bus and calming bloody man after UK soldier's slaying" and then note the subheading: "Mom-of-two who confronted cleaver-wielding man moments after the killing said she originally thought there had been a road accident."
    And I have to wonder: why is it whenever women do something heroic and they have kids, they're automatically labelled as "moms"? I mean, for God's sake, how often do we hear: "Dad of three wins Nobel Prize" or "Dad of two manages merger of corporations"?
    Another annoyance I have is when a heroic woman's actions are modestly attributed by themselves and others to "protectiveness," "motherliness," and "instinct," (i.e. one can infer that women act heroically out of their motherly instincts to nurture and protect). I guess men act heroically out of their manliness and muscular machismo?
    I frequently feel like I'm living in 1906 when I read headlines involving women.

    For some reason, it seems to matter to (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by Anne on Thu May 23, 2013 at 02:38:07 PM EST
    reporters what someone's profession is - as if it adds - or takes away - from whatever it is that's being written.  So, if a woman doesn't work outside the home, "what" is she?  She's either a mom, if she has kids, or a homemaker, if she doesn't.  Or she's a "volunteer" - that's like saying she's either wealthy enough not to have to work or she's just keeping herself busy while she waits to get pregnant.

    But it raises the question - why does what someone does for a living matter, really?  

    And then you get the contingent that wants to know why we're not proud to be identified as mothers...okay, so if the story's about my child or my family, I can see where my status as a mom matters, but if I've achieved something of significance outside the home, if I came to someone's aid, witnessed a crime, crashed my car - why can't I just be me?  

    It's not that I don't like being a mom, or am not proud of my children, it's just that for some things that happen in my life, being a mom is completely irrelevant.

    So, I hear you and I agree with you.  Not that it will change anything, but, still...


    Parent

    Damn... (none / 0) (#41)
    by ScottW714 on Thu May 23, 2013 at 11:38:57 AM EST
    ...I have read that story several times and I never got that angle from it, but that is a pretty valid point.

    I actually read it in that her heroism was even greater because she had kids, which now feels a little demeaning on my part now that you pointed it out.

    But I would disagree about any of that marginalizing what she did.  I still can't believe the video of her talking to a guy with bloody hands holding the knives, nerves of steal IMO.

    Parent

    Thank you (none / 0) (#56)
    by Lena on Thu May 23, 2013 at 12:44:59 PM EST
    I haven't read the actual article -- I'm  trying to make it a point not to read stories of mayhem these days because it just gets me stressed for no reason -- but from what you write it sounds like it was the headline writer who spun that angle more than the article writer.

    I mean, if the hero's motherhood played any role in the story, I'd understand that her status as a parent should be in the subheadline, but it sounds like it just plain didn't. I had a kid late in life, and maybe that's why I don't primarily self-identify as "Lena: first, a mom", but I swear, if I ever (a) go missing; (b) invent something; (c) save the day; or (d) become a CEO, I know I'm going to be steamed when the story goes: "Today, a mother-of-one was abducted/cured cancer/thwarted a hijacking/became CEO of IBM..."

    Being labeled primarily as a parent just because you're a women is just crazy. Now that I think of it, do the headline writers think it makes the story more compelling in the sense that a sweet, innocent, motherly person could possibly be brave (run a company/be abducted/etc.)?

    Anyway, the "thank you" part is for listening to my gripe and understanding.

    Parent

    FWIW... (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by kdog on Thu May 23, 2013 at 01:21:11 PM EST
    I've seen headlines describing that insanely brave woman as a scout leader and ex-teacher before mother...though I'm not sure if that's any better or worse.

    Somewhat related...one of my friends and I are total Jeapordy junkies, and we always joke about how the announcer could describe us during the intro if we were on the show..."a cubicle jockeying pothead from NY, kdog!".  Or what the personal anecdote would be during the chit-chat with Alex..."kdog, it says here you enjoy to read the poetry of Charles Bukowski on the toilet. How did that come about?"

    Anyway, I find it amusing how we define ourselves and others.  Like when somebody asks "so what do you do?"  My favorite answer..."I live, how about you?"  

    Parent

    Like when somebody asks ... (5.00 / 4) (#127)
    by unitron on Thu May 23, 2013 at 08:30:16 PM EST
    ..."so what do you do?"

    I say "what do you need done?".

    Parent

    I'm stealing that, unitron (5.00 / 2) (#132)
    by shoephone on Fri May 24, 2013 at 12:12:13 AM EST


    Parent
    Me too... (5.00 / 1) (#152)
    by kdog on Fri May 24, 2013 at 12:38:31 PM EST
    I have a new favorite answer...well played unitron!

    Parent
    That's hilarious (none / 0) (#72)
    by Lena on Thu May 23, 2013 at 01:40:56 PM EST
    I'm no Jeopardyphile, but I'd pay to see that episode!!

    I think Scout leader and teacher are better descriptors, if only because they're not trying to box in this person with all the cultural weight of...Mother.

    This pet peeve I have with that headline reminds me of an article I saw within the past year about some scientist who invented something or other for autistic kids, and...you guessed it... the headline at this medical website said something like "Mom invents Thingamadoodle." Argh!!

    Parent

    I hear where you're coming from... (none / 0) (#81)
    by kdog on Thu May 23, 2013 at 02:00:05 PM EST
    if Hillary wins in 2016, will the headline be "Mom Wins Presidency"?  

    otoh, all descriptors put a person in a box of sorts, I guess it boils down to what box one prefers.  I think I'd prefer son/brother/uncle to cubicle jockey, if I can't just be me....but I totally understand how a woman would see it the other way, having struggled for centuries to be seen as more than mothers and wives.

    Parent

    If Hillary wins (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by Lena on Thu May 23, 2013 at 02:33:06 PM EST
    the presidency, the headline will surely start with: "Mother, scorned wife, and reviled Democrat..."

    See, this is progress! She gets to have more than one label. Women are becoming more nuanced nowadays. ;-)


    Parent

    I guess when... (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by kdog on Thu May 23, 2013 at 02:54:19 PM EST
    the headlines read "So and So, Human Being, Did Such and Such" we will know we have arrived!

    Parent
    Teen Birth Rates Down 30% (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by ScottW714 on Thu May 23, 2013 at 12:34:22 PM EST
    Researchers from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that from 2007 to 2011, the overall rate of teen births plummeted a full 30 percent. The biggest decline was among Hispanic teens, whose birth rate dropped 34 percent. Among non-Hispanic black teens there was a decline of 24 percent. Among white, non-Hispanic teens, the rate decreased by 20 percent.
    LINK

    I can't even wrap my head around a 30% decline, that is fricken awesome.

    d'ja read the whole thing? (none / 0) (#71)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu May 23, 2013 at 01:38:19 PM EST
    "The drop in the teen birth rate mirrors a fairly large drop in the overall U.S. birth rate - to women of all ages - during the same period," she explained. "This coincides with the Great Recession. Many people are less likely to have children when they're experiencing economic troubles. Since most teen mothers are in or near poverty and come from disadvantaged backgrounds, it's not surprising that they would be especially likely to have fewer births during these difficult economic times."


    Parent
    I Did... (none / 0) (#80)
    by ScottW714 on Thu May 23, 2013 at 01:59:22 PM EST
    ...still a crazy number and the idea that economic downturn in areas with poverty somehow curtails teens to have less babies seems like an odd link, given reality.  That assumption just seems odd to me, it's one thing for people who plan a pregnancy to cut back in hard times, it's quit another for people who aren't planning, namely teens.

    The only thing they didn't really address is pregnancies to births.  No way I want to dive into that subject, but it's odd they didn't mention it.
    -----------

    Off topic question I have been meaning to ask you.  You're a Hollywood guy right, what is the deal with promoting movies.  Do actors have to make X many appearances promoting it, or they just have to promote it ?  Do they lay out where they go and the actor just has to do it or do they just have to go to whomever asks, or do they approach the show and say they are available.

    Just curious.

    Parent

    It all depends on the balance of power (none / 0) (#113)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu May 23, 2013 at 03:10:29 PM EST
    between the money people and the actor. But typically the actor's promotional requirements are negotiated and part of the actor's contract.

    Parent
    Obama orders... (5.00 / 1) (#151)
    by kdog on Fri May 24, 2013 at 12:36:35 PM EST
    an investigation of the Holder DOJ's handling of the leak investigation aka spying on the press.  Good news.

    Bad news is Holder will be investigating himself...lol.

    What a great story! (5.00 / 1) (#153)
    by jbindc on Fri May 24, 2013 at 12:40:12 PM EST
    Doctors save Ohio boy by "printing" an airway tube.

    And seriously - how cute is this little guy?

    Another 2 year old in hospital (none / 0) (#3)
    by MO Blue on Thu May 23, 2013 at 07:28:52 AM EST
    as the result of gun shot to head.

    A two-year-old was hospitalized in Trigg County, Kentucky on Wednesday after receiving what authorities describe as an accidental gun shot to the head, WPSD reports. The child is recovering after receiving non-life threatening injuries. link
    In my town (none / 0) (#35)
    by Lena on Thu May 23, 2013 at 10:58:09 AM EST
    a 12 year old just died after having been shot by a 2 or 3 year old when the babysitter, a convicted felon who wasn't supposed to have a gun, left it on the table and the kids started playing with it.

    Parent
    Tom Coburn out Coburned himself on (none / 0) (#5)
    by Militarytracy on Thu May 23, 2013 at 08:06:01 AM EST
    Morning Joe.  How do Oklahomans vote for that man?  He insists that focusing on building storm shelter in the rebuild is unnecessary, the chances of Moore being hit again like this is slim.  Well, not counting the fact that some children had been removed from school hours prior and taken to storm shelters by their parents, because of the regions tornado history.

    He said they have done all his before, and they'll do it again.  Only seven kids died in the Enterprise tornado, but we had hundreds in the hospital with serious injuries.  All that doesn't get reported.  And when it is a rural community the hospitalized are all spread out usually, flown to several larger community hospitals.  Trying to visit kids in the hospital required road trips.

    He also said that whether or not his constituents get federal aid, it doesn't really matter.  They will fix all this themselves.

    Well (5.00 / 3) (#8)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu May 23, 2013 at 08:27:17 AM EST
    then Obama should say to Oklahomans, your senator does not want me to help and you are the ones that elected him so if you want to change his mind, you should get in contact with him or them.

    But yes, the Senators from OK seem to be a particular breed of stupid


    Parent

    On NPR this am (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by ruffian on Thu May 23, 2013 at 12:28:30 PM EST
    they were talking to a city official about possibly building a storm shelter in the replacement schools for the ones that were destroyed. He used close to these exact  words 'The cost of children's lives is is incalculable, but storm shelters cost a lot of money'. The NPR reporter closed with some words about 'surely there will be storm shelters now'. I was like - uh, no, surely there will not.

    Parent
    I suppose nothing much (none / 0) (#119)
    by Militarytracy on Thu May 23, 2013 at 03:28:38 PM EST
    Would have been done around here if not for the trial lawyers.  By the time the lawsuits were done and insurance companies had their say, new schools have the shelters and old schools release the kids a couple of hours prior to bad tornado bearing storms.

    Parent
    Maybe that's what it will take (none / 0) (#130)
    by ruffian on Thu May 23, 2013 at 10:50:13 PM EST
    People won't be so tight with their tax dollars for schools if the alternative is giving them to trial lawyers.

    Parent
    Dr.No, aka Dr. Coburn, as he prefers (none / 0) (#31)
    by KeysDan on Thu May 23, 2013 at 10:31:23 AM EST
    being called over "senator"  (and as some Oklahomans may now not only prefer, but also, look forward to his return to doctoring in obstetrics) does not conjure up, in me, thoughts of  a "Brother in Christ."

    Parent
    I can't imagine that sociopath (5.00 / 2) (#120)
    by Militarytracy on Thu May 23, 2013 at 03:32:08 PM EST
    Touching my pregnant body.  The thought makes me gag

    Parent
    Everyone has the right to be stupid, MT. (none / 0) (#77)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu May 23, 2013 at 01:48:58 PM EST
    And Sens. Coburn and Inhofe and their colleagues from across the Red River abuse that privilege.

    Parent
    VICE (none / 0) (#11)
    by Slado on Thu May 23, 2013 at 08:36:01 AM EST
    Anyone watching the news series on HBO?

    If you haven't started I'd highly recommend it.   They do great stories on all sorts of issues from around the world.

    Make you realize our media does a terrible job telling us what happens around the world.

    Very interesting.  

    VICE

    You don't (none / 0) (#12)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu May 23, 2013 at 08:52:56 AM EST
    even have to have HBO. If you have BBC America they are better at telling you what is going on in the world. I also understand CNN International is pretty good too but I do not have that.

    Parent
    Doesn't it just seem (5.00 / 2) (#125)
    by NYShooter on Thu May 23, 2013 at 06:24:41 PM EST
    that foreign reporters, like BBC's, are simply more intelligent than their American counterparts?

    Parent
    Fair enough (none / 0) (#26)
    by Slado on Thu May 23, 2013 at 10:07:38 AM EST
    but the subject matter of VICE is the difference.   BBC is not covering some of the things they are covering.

    Parent
    Great show... (none / 0) (#19)
    by kdog on Thu May 23, 2013 at 09:22:42 AM EST
    caught a couple episodes and really dug it...real investigative journalism made entertaining.  Who said it can't be done?

    Parent
    Joe Francis Keeping it Classy (none / 0) (#25)
    by ScottW714 on Thu May 23, 2013 at 09:57:35 AM EST
    Of jury that found him guilty of falsely imprisoning three women in his California home:
    "I want that jury to know that each and every one of you are mentally f--ing retarded and you should be euthanized because, as Darwin said, you have naturally selected yourself,"
    "You are the weakest members of the herd. Goodbye! And if that jury wants to convict me because I didn't show up, which is the only reason why they did, then, you know, they should all be lined up and shot!"
    LINK

    That clown has always rubbed me the wrong way and now I know why.
    -----------

    If you need a good laugh, this speaks for itself.

    Awkward Family Photos

    Why do I think those comments (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by Peter G on Thu May 23, 2013 at 01:42:09 PM EST
    are likely to be quoted back at him at the time of the sentencing hearing?

    Parent
    Why do the two pictures (none / 0) (#59)
    by jbindc on Thu May 23, 2013 at 12:53:08 PM EST
    With the families and the dogs look like the fathers are um, getting too friendly with the dogs???

    Parent
    If You Look Closely... (none / 0) (#83)
    by ScottW714 on Thu May 23, 2013 at 02:03:43 PM EST
    ...the first 6 or so pics are spoofs of the originals.  You can tell because Maya Rudolph is the mother, so that's why their appears to be 2 friendly dogs pics that are very similar.

    Either way the original is downright weird.

    Parent

    Something to make you smile (none / 0) (#39)
    by jbindc on Thu May 23, 2013 at 11:25:34 AM EST
    Obama's prom photos released.

    Hello 1979!

    I liked his yearbook note to his friend's gf, (none / 0) (#45)
    by magster on Thu May 23, 2013 at 11:58:09 AM EST
    saying she was "foxy" and that his friend was stupid for spending time with him instead of her.

    "Foxy". lol.

    Parent

    Ah yes.... (none / 0) (#49)
    by ruffian on Thu May 23, 2013 at 12:22:49 PM EST
    I believe that dress fabric was known as 'Qiana'. Sounded a lot classier than polyester.

    Parent
    For a second there... (none / 0) (#107)
    by kdog on Thu May 23, 2013 at 02:55:51 PM EST
    I thought they were draped in cannabis...my kinda prom!

    Parent
    Kdog, that doesn't look (none / 0) (#126)
    by Zorba on Thu May 23, 2013 at 07:13:51 PM EST
    anything at all like cannabis!  As you well know.
    This is Hawaii, remember.  Although I am not a botanist, they are likely to be maile leaves.

    Parent
    Just a split second... (none / 0) (#140)
    by kdog on Fri May 24, 2013 at 11:18:19 AM EST
    small photo and all.

    But Hawaii prom in the 70's...if there was an unredded eye in the house I'd be f*ckin' shocked;)

    Parent

    Sweetie, (none / 0) (#154)
    by Zorba on Fri May 24, 2013 at 01:53:25 PM EST
    ANY prom in the 70's would have been likely to have more than a few "red eyes."  Anywhere in the country.             ;-)


    Parent
    Too true, too true... (none / 0) (#155)
    by kdog on Fri May 24, 2013 at 02:23:05 PM EST
    Mama always said I was born one generation too late...but I will say this about my generation, we grow it better than ever before!

    Parent
    Obama's speech on (none / 0) (#118)
    by jbindc on Thu May 23, 2013 at 03:20:09 PM EST
    Counterterrorism policy today - "We are at a crossroads"

    Some excerpts:

    Beyond the Afghan theater, we only target al Qaeda and its associated forces. Even then, the use of drones is heavily constrained. America does not take strikes when we have the ability to capture individual terrorists - our preference is always to detain, interrogate, and prosecute them. America cannot take strikes wherever we choose - our actions are bound by consultations with partners, and respect for state sovereignty. America does not take strikes to punish individuals - we act against terrorists who pose a continuing and imminent threat to the American people, and when there are no other governments capable of effectively addressing the threat. And before any strike is taken, there must be near-certainty that no civilians will be killed or injured - the highest standard we can set.

    SNIP

    But when a U.S. citizen goes abroad to wage war against America - and is actively plotting to kill U.S. citizens; and when neither the United States, nor our partners are in a position to capture him before he carries out a plot - his citizenship should no more serve as a shield than a sniper shooting down on an innocent crowd should be protected from a swat team.

    SNIP

    So the next element of our strategy involves addressing the underlying grievances and conflicts that feed extremism, from North Africa to South Asia. As we've learned this past decade, this is a vast and complex undertaking. We must be humble in our expectation that we can quickly resolve deep rooted problems like poverty and sectarian hatred. Moreover, no two countries are alike, and some will undergo chaotic change before things get better. But our security and values demand that we make the effort.

    This means patiently supporting transitions to democracy in places like Egypt, Tunisia and Libya - because the peaceful realization of individual aspirations will serve as a rebuke to violent extremists. We must strengthen the opposition in Syria, while isolating extremist elements - because the end of a tyrant must not give way to the tyranny of terrorism. We are working to promote peace between Israelis and Palestinians - because it is right, and because such a peace could help reshape attitudes in the region. And we must help countries modernize economies, upgrade education, and encourage entrepreneurship - because American leadership has always been elevated by our ability to connect with peoples' hopes, and not simply their fears.

    SNIP

    Journalists should not be at legal risk for doing their jobs. Our focus must be on those who break the law. That is why I have called on Congress to pass a media shield law to guard against government over-reach. I have raised these issues with the Attorney General, who shares my concern. So he has agreed to review existing Department of Justice guidelines governing investigations that involve reporters, and will convene a group of media organizations to hear their concerns as part of that review. And I have directed the Attorney General to report back to me by July 12th.

    SNIP

    As President, I have tried to close GTMO. I transferred 67 detainees to other countries before Congress imposed restrictions to effectively prevent us from either transferring detainees to other countries, or imprisoning them in the United States. These restrictions make no sense. After all, under President Bush, some 530 detainees were transferred from GTMO with Congress's support. When I ran for President the first time, John McCain supported closing GTMO. No person has ever escaped from one of our super-max or military prisons in the United States. Our courts have convicted hundreds of people for terrorism-related offenses, including some who are more dangerous than most GTMO detainees. Given my Administration's relentless pursuit of al Qaeda's leadership, there is no justification beyond politics for Congress to prevent us from closing a facility that should never have been opened.

    Today, I once again call on Congress to lift the restrictions on detainee transfers from GTMO. I have asked the Department of Defense to designate a site in the United States where we can hold military commissions. I am appointing a new, senior envoy at the State Department and Defense Department whose sole responsibility will be to achieve the transfer of detainees to third countries. I am lifting the moratorium on detainee transfers to Yemen, so we can review them on a case by case basis. To the greatest extent possible, we will transfer detainees who have been cleared to go to other countries. Where appropriate, we will bring terrorists to justice in our courts and military justice system. And we will insist that judicial review be available for every detainee.
    He's full of sh*t (5.00 / 1) (#137)
    by Dadler on Fri May 24, 2013 at 10:16:09 AM EST
    He is seeking an Uber-Nixon expansion of the Espionage Act. That action says all that needs to be said about him. The rest is nice words that are NEVER backed up by the kind of bold action necessary. If you're not willing to lose your job over things you feel are SOOOOOOOO important, then guess what?  You ain't really being honest.  This is a guy who can't even tell the truth to the American people about how the economy really functions, about what Fiat Currency really is, that it is factually impossible for the Federal Government to go financially broke. He has spent his entire administration on his knees for Republicans, bitching at those who got him elected as the "problem" with our unrealistic expectations (truthfully, we have ZERO with you, dude), and what has it gotten him? Nothing.

    His entire political "philosophy" is a failed and naive exercise in idiocy.

    But when you elect a guy to the highest political job in the land, and that guy isn't interested in playing political hardball, what do you expect.

    The cult of personality continues.

    The Republicans are idiots, but we knew that, he knew that, and what has he done -- simply allowed that idiocy to control things HE could've controlled if he had an ounce of genuine imagination and psychological insight in his skinny body.

    Parent

    Dallas officials plan to erect (none / 0) (#138)
    by brodie on Fri May 24, 2013 at 11:01:46 AM EST
    large plaque at Dealey Plaza on the Grassy Knoll quoting "uplifting" words JFK intended to give later that day, for 50th anniversary.

    Agree with Morley that this is entirely inappropriate and serves mainly to distract from the ongoing mystery of what happened there that day.

    I think it's a great idea (none / 0) (#141)
    by CoralGables on Fri May 24, 2013 at 11:22:09 AM EST
    as it memorializes the words that were never able to be spoken that day, and an appropriate addition on the 50th anniversary of his death.

    Parent
    It's the location (none / 0) (#148)
    by brodie on Fri May 24, 2013 at 11:59:16 AM EST
    and not just that but the most sensitive, or contested, part of that location.

    Further it comes in the context of Dallas officials seeking to monopolize all 50th anniv events at DP by taking out a sort of exclusive week-long permit that effectively shuts out all non-official (i.e. dissenting) voices.

    Let them put the plaque somewhere else, perhaps inside city hall or on the grounds outside.  Let the assassination site be preserved as it was, as federal rules for a NPS site say it should be.

    Dallas should then be about the business of opening up public commemorations of the 50th anniversary to all voices, as well as relaxing their attitudes about local people, such as Rbt Groden, who have been harrassed repeatedly by the police for essentially seeking to express a non-official, contrarian pov on the assassination.

    Parent

    Three states (none / 0) (#139)
    by CoralGables on Fri May 24, 2013 at 11:06:00 AM EST
    now have their health insurance prices in under the Affordable Care Act. All three, Oregon, Washington and California are coming in cheaper.  
    Even Krugman takes a shot at the Republicans over the ACA today.

    Wonder if (5.00 / 1) (#149)
    by jbindc on Fri May 24, 2013 at 12:31:12 PM EST
    We won't really know how Obamacare works until it has been in operation for a while; but we do know that essentially the same system has been running in Massachusetts since 2006, and is doing pretty well. The question, then, is whether other states that don't have MA's initial advantages -- especially an already low uninsurance rate and an already operating system of community rating -- can make this thing work. The big fear has been of sharply rising premiums as insurers are required to cover people with preexisting conditions. And the biggest test case was always going to be California.

    The fact that MAssachussetts is about to probably lose it's "Bay State Boondoogle":

    The Massachusetts congressional delegation, after holding a rare emergency meeting Wednesday, launched what could be a final effort to preserve more than $250 million in bonus Medicare payments to the state's hospitals that critics call the "Bay State boondoggle."

    But the prospect of holding on to the windfall is dimming. The Democrat-controlled Senate voted earlier this year to end the payments, enacted under President Obama's health care overhaul law and which come at the expense of most other states. A similar bill was introduced in the Republican-led House this week.

    ...

    But many members of Congress from other states believe that Massachusetts is getting unfair treatment. The additional payments are being made under an obscure provision that sets rates based on payments at a state's rural hospitals.

    Massachusetts wins under a Medicare rule that says a state's urban hospitals must be reimbursed for wages paid to doctors and staff at least as much as rural hospitals. As the only federally designated rural hospital in the state, Nantucket Cottage Hospital sets the floor for wage reimbursement for the state's 81 other hospitals. Wages on the tony island are high because of its remote location and high cost of living.

    Massachusetts' annual bonus has resulted in a financial loss for 40 other states as a result of an amendment to the 2009 health care overhaul law requiring that Medicare reimbursements for hospital wages come from a national pool of money instead of from each state's allocation.



    Parent
    How the NRA Rates Politicians... (none / 0) (#146)
    by ScottW714 on Fri May 24, 2013 at 11:45:46 AM EST
    ...and how much they 'contribute' to each.
    LINK

    Like they say, money talks.

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