Monday Afternoon Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Mon May 13, 2013 at 02:38:07 PM EST
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There was a hearing in the James Holmes Aurora theater shooting case today. The judge ruled Holmes has met the test for changing his plea to not guilty by reason of insanity. The change of plea hearing will be held at a later date.

Abortion doctor Kermit Gosnell has been convicted of first degree murder.

Busy day today, here's an open thread, all topics welcome.

< O.J. Simpson in Court for Hearing on Motion for New Trial | DOJ Subponaed AP Reporters' Phone Records >

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Monday Afternoon Open Thread | 101 comments (101 topical)

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In the article (5.00 / 1) (#4)
by lentinel on Mon May 13, 2013 at 04:47:32 PM EST

linked to about the conviction of abortion doctor Kermit Gosnell, it says that

he ran a dirty clinic that served mostly low-income women and teens, and went years without a state inspection. (My emphasis)

The State of Pennsylvania should be held responsible as well as Gosnell for the deaths of those newborns imo.

The way I see it, from what I read, the State is an accessory to murder.
Will anyone be held to account?

Scandal #3 (5.00 / 1) (#5)
by Slado on Mon May 13, 2013 at 05:11:53 PM EST

Now Justice is monitoring AP phone records.

Been a bad week for Team Obama. Three scandals for the price of one.

They did it now. You can screw up in Lybia, you can even screw with tea partiers but don't mess with the press.

Unfortunately (5.00 / 1) (#8)
by Ga6thDem on Mon May 13, 2013 at 05:36:52 PM EST

this is the road we went down when we started warrantless wiretapping. Again, this is probably not illegal under the Patriot Act or whatever act is out there.

I'm old enough to remember there were reasons that those laws were instated in the first place.

Parent

: United States of Scandal... (none / 0) (#21)
by kdog on Mon May 13, 2013 at 08:56:36 PM EST

Our problem is a scandal isn't a scandal, scandal is satisfactory.
Judging by how we choose leadership, and what we tolerate, especially when the guys we vote for scandalize.

Parent

Finally, you have a real scandal (5.00 / 1) (#56)
by Militarytracy on Tue May 14, 2013 at 07:40:01 AM EST

This is such a violation, it is despicable. It is as low as it goes in a democracy. They have been listening to every phone call going into and out of AP, who else? There's more now, if they did this and went this far there is more and we just haven't found out.

Imagine if the Bushies had done this to reporters investigating the lies of the Iraq War?

Parent

: Everyone's phone calls are being recorded (none / 0) (#71)
by shoephone on Tue May 14, 2013 at 11:28:20 AM EST

according to former FBI agent, Tim Clemente. It was only about one week ago that he told CNN's Erin Burnett that every phone call and every digital communication of U.S. citizens is being "captured".
Yes. It's a scandal of major proportions, not just for journalists, but for every single American citizen.

Parent

How the eff is this a scandal? Jeez. (none / 0) (#7)
by Angel on Mon May 13, 2013 at 05:35:28 PM EST

Like I told you earlier: Facts first; analysis second; opinion third.

You don't even know all of the facts (such as, did a judge sign off on a subpoena?) and you've already formed an "opinion."

Parent

: judges aren't needed to sign the supboenas (none / 0) (#51)
by Jeralyn on Tue May 14, 2013 at 01:13:47 AM EST

See my post (which I've updated), I include the regs and the facts as reported by the AP.

Parent

Benghazi (none / 0) (#33)
by TeresaInPa on Mon May 13, 2013 at 09:37:51 PM EST

is a fake scandal. It's really about Clinton's popularity.

Parent

We (Americans) are so stupid (none / 0) (#98)
by NYShooter on Wed May 15, 2013 at 12:45:59 AM EST

THEY give us:

Benghazi!!!
Questionable privacy intrusions (as if it's new)
IRS investigating "non partisan" organizations tax-exempt

wishes.

WE want:

Jobs, jobs, jobs
Decent, affordable health care
Humane immigration reform

The things WE want are oh, so difficult for the 1% to deal with so, they toss some shiny pennies on the ground and we idjits forget everything else and run, like sheeple, after their shiny coins.

Parent

Interesting happening in Florida today (5.00 / 2) (#22)
by CoralGables on Mon May 13, 2013 at 09:06:40 PM EST

The State Director of Florida Hispanic Outreach for the Republican National Committee just became a Democrat. Part of his reasoning:

It doesn't take much to see the culture of intolerance surrounding the Republican Party today

Link? I must share this priceless (none / 0) (#47)
by oculus on Mon May 13, 2013 at 11:50:00 PM EST

Understatement w/myFL brother!!

Parent

Here is a copy (none / 0) (#54)
by CoralGables on Tue May 14, 2013 at 06:09:19 AM EST

of the letter he sent to a friend from college explaining his reasoning.

Parent

: Thanks. (none / 0) (#61)
by oculus on Tue May 14, 2013 at 08:08:13 AM EST

Parent

Minnesota becomes #12 (5.00 / 1) (#24)
by CoralGables on Mon May 13, 2013 at 09:12:03 PM EST

The Minnesota Senate passed the same-sex marriage bill today after the House voted in favor last week. Governor Mark Dayton said he'll sign the bill tomorrow. The law will take effect August 1.

About Time (5.00 / 1) (#64)
by ScottW714 on Tue May 14, 2013 at 09:28:40 AM EST

The New Jersey father of a 4-year-old boy who accidentally shot and killed his 6-year-old neighbor has been arrested, accused of having multiple unsecured weapons accessible to children, officials said.
The Atlantic County prosecutor's office announced Monday that Anthony Senatore, 33, has been charged with six counts of child endangerment and a disorderly person's offense for enabling access by minors to a loaded firearm. LINK

Seems like no matter where one stand on gun control, we can all agree that parents who's guns that are involved in accidental shooting by their kids should be accountable for not securing them.

But I doubt it, can't wait to read what the gun lobby, aka the NRA, has to say about this.

"Welcome to Starbucks.... (none / 0) (#66)
by kdog on Tue May 14, 2013 at 09:56:43 AM EST

may I take your order?"

"Lemme get a shot of....arrrghhh! My leg my leg!"

Linkage

Parent

: From the Link: (none / 0) (#67)
by ScottW714 on Tue May 14, 2013 at 10:11:32 AM EST

Recent figures from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention show almost seven people are wounded by gunfire every 60 minutes in the U.S.
This is insanity and the answer ain't more guns.

Parent
: That's not too far from the truth, kdog (none / 0) (#93)
by shoephone on Tue May 14, 2013 at 04:35:30 PM EST

After all, Starbucks has disgusted a lot of people in Seattle with its policy of looking the other way when gun owners walk in their stores openly carrying and intimidating the living sh*t out of all the customers and employees.

Parent

"About Time"? (none / 0) (#80)
by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue May 14, 2013 at 01:23:14 PM EST

Lotsa people are charged with leaving unsecured weapons around, unfortunately there are still too many people who do it.

Just google "arrested guns unsecured" - many, many hits come up like this one:

SEATTLE -- Saying that she left firearms unsecured around her house, authorities issued an arrest warrant Monday for the mother of the 9-year-old Washington boy who is accused of bringing to school a gun that accidentally fired - seriously wounding a third-grade classmate

Parent

It's state by state (none / 0) (#84)
by CoralGables on Tue May 14, 2013 at 01:49:38 PM EST

depending on the law. States with stricter gun laws file charges in these cases. States with weak gun laws chalk it up as an accident. The first eight states that show up in your search are Oregon, Washington, Connecticut, Massachusetts, California, New Jersey, New Hampshire, and Nevada.

Notice a pattern?

Parent

More than 1/2 of the states have (none / 0) (#86)
by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue May 14, 2013 at 03:01:58 PM EST

unsecured gun laws. fwiw, it looks like

27 states currently have some laws mandating gun storage, according to The News Tribune.

Additionally, in lieu of specific unsecured gun laws, there are child endangerment, etc., laws in all states, afaik.

JEFFERSON COUNTY, AL (WBRC) -
The uncle of a four-year-old boy who found a gun and accidentally shot himself in the head Friday afternoon has been charged in the case.
The boy's 21-year-old uncle, Marquis Rashad Abernathy, has been charged with reckless endangerment and receiving stolen property.

Again, the comment "About Time" which suggests that this is the first time such charges have been brought, or that it's unusual for charges to be brought in such cases, is not true.

Parent

For Me... (5.00 / 1) (#88)
by ScottW714 on Tue May 14, 2013 at 03:28:04 PM EST

...it's about this rash of kids accidentally shooting each other and no one being charged. Namely the one in the south in which the 5 year old shot a kid and the Sheriff said something like 'Accidents happen'. Surely you remember the coroner in Kentucky stating something like 'Just a Crazy Accident'. LINK

I was not commenting on what states has what laws and blah, blah, blah. Just that it seemed to me that no one was being held accountable with the recent front page stories.

Parent

Fair enough. Laws or no laws, (none / 0) (#89)
by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue May 14, 2013 at 03:38:31 PM EST

I would prefer a "culture," or whatever, that makes more people think twice about leaving guns laying around (or sharp knives, car keys, matches, various toxic materials, etc.).

Parent

Agreed (none / 0) (#92)
by ScottW714 on Tue May 14, 2013 at 04:30:09 PM EST

And I wasn't aware that people were being charged. It sucks that we even need laws to dictate common sense.

Parent

: Agreed. (none / 0) (#95)
by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue May 14, 2013 at 05:10:00 PM EST

Parent

And, for the record, (none / 0) (#94)
by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue May 14, 2013 at 04:44:28 PM EST

I've found no info that says there's been a "rash of shootings and no one being charged."

From what I could find:

Accidental firearms injuries have been on the decline nationwide.

gun-related homicides and accidents have gone down

I do think increased reminders of the importance of gun safety does result in more people being more careful with guns, so if we are exposed to a rash of reports of these incidences (in contrast to an actual rash of the incidences themselves) I'd say that's a good thing.

Parent

I have to admit being a wee bit confused (5.00 / 1) (#96)
by MO Blue on Tue May 14, 2013 at 05:36:02 PM EST

If I click on your 1st link I get an article titled

Epidemic: Guns kill twice as many kids as cancer does

A quote of the entire paragraph reads:

Accidental firearms injuries have been on the decline nationwide. In 2001, 5,091 children ages 19 and under were injured by a firearm. Those numbers steadily decreased through 2009, when 3,587 children under 19 were reported injured by a firearm, according to the defense fund.

Also in the article:

In 2010, 15,576 children and teenagers were injured by firearms -- three times more than the number of U.S. soldiers injured in the war in Afghanistan, according to the defense fund.

So in 2010, 11,989 more children and teenagers were injured by firearms than in 2009 and 10,485 more than in 2001.

Personally I would view those increases more as evidence of a "rash of shootings " and not evidence that they are currently on the decline. More from the article:

Nationally, guns still kill twice as many children and young people than cancer, five times as many than heart disease and 15 times more than infection, according to the New England Journal of Medicine.
"We see guns as much of a threat in their life as we used to see bacteria and viruses," said Dr. Judith S. Palfrey, a past president of the American Academy of Pediatrics and the co-author of the New England journal report. "If you look at what's actually killing children and disabling children, guns is one of the major things."

Related Statistics on shootings

-- Thirty-three percent of U.S. households have a gun, and half of gun-owning households do not lock up their guns, including 40 percent of households with kids under age 18.
...
-- Most unintentional shooting deaths occur in the home (65 percent), based on data from 16 states. The most common context of the death (30 percent) was playing with the gun.

Parent

: I have to admit being a wee bit confused" (none / 0) (#97)
by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue May 14, 2013 at 06:25:24 PM EST

I agree, something is wacky in the article, I think maybe there is a mixup between accidental and non-accidental injury statistics?
A quick google found this, though not specific to children:
While violent crime rates in general are dropping, accidental gun deaths are holding steady; at about 500 to 600 per year.
Another:
Webster said children's accidental deaths by guns have fallen since states passed laws requiring that guns be locked away from youths or have safeties to keep them from firing.
And another:
In 2007, there were 122 unintentional firearm deaths in children, and an additional 3,060 nonfatal gun and shooting accidents, which resulted in an estimated 1,375 children needing to be hospitalized for their injuries. Unintentional firearm deaths in children have remained at about the same levels since, with 114 deaths in children and teens less than age 18 in 2010.
While none of them specifically address the concept of a "rash" of these types of situations, they do generally indicate a plateauing.

Parent

Happy 13th birthday to my son (5.00 / 2) (#68)
by Dadler on Tue May 14, 2013 at 11:13:17 AM EST

Can't believe he's a teenager already. But a greater, more sensitive and talented son, no man could ask for. I am blown away today, just a freaking beautiful mess. What a kid. Peace, my peeps.

Happy Birthday (5.00 / 1) (#70)
by Ga6thDem on Tue May 14, 2013 at 11:27:31 AM EST

to your son!!

Parent

The apple don't fall far... (5.00 / 1) (#75)
by kdog on Tue May 14, 2013 at 11:43:25 AM EST

ya done good Pops...now it gets a little more interesting in years 13-18;) But from what I've seen you've laid an excellent foundation. Be proud.

Parent

Congrats to you (5.00 / 1) (#77)
by ExcitableBoy on Tue May 14, 2013 at 12:06:12 PM EST

and happy birthday to him.

Parent

Happy Birthday to your teenager! (5.00 / 2) (#87)
by Anne on Tue May 14, 2013 at 03:10:51 PM EST

I think the best part about children's birthdays is the inevitable walk down memory lane that starts with remembering when you found out you were having a baby and wends its way all the way up to the present; somehow, it makes it possible to look into their eyes and see the precious babies they were, and appreciate the journey both of you have taken.

Saturday, my husband will walk our younger daughter down the aisle, and I am already tearing up just thinking about it. Up to this point, it has all been about the planning and the decisions, the where and when and how many and what kind and will I ever find a dress I like. Now it's becoming about watching my baby begin a whole new chapter in her life with a wonderful young man I would be proud to call my son - and remembering her sweet face on the day she was born, and the look of love and joy she has on her face when she looks at her fiance.

Soak it all up, Dadler - it flies by so quickly it takes my breath away!

Parent

: Have a great wedding Saturday (none / 0) (#91)
by Dadler on Tue May 14, 2013 at 04:18:13 PM EST

Sounds like happiness will be served by the gallon. Congratulations. I'll send a Kleenex truck your way. ;-)

Parent

Amist (5.00 / 5) (#69)
by Ga6thDem on Tue May 14, 2013 at 11:25:05 AM EST

all the news here I just wanted to let everyone know that my husband found another job!!! Yay for him and for our family. He looks happier than I have seen him in a long time.

Congratulations!! And best of luck to all of you. (5.00 / 1) (#72)
by Angel on Tue May 14, 2013 at 11:30:57 AM EST

Parent

Great news! (5.00 / 1) (#73)
by shoephone on Tue May 14, 2013 at 11:35:02 AM EST

Parent

I'm sure thats a load off... (5.00 / 1) (#74)
by kdog on Tue May 14, 2013 at 11:36:59 AM EST

your minds...Good Sh*t GA!

Parent

I am sooo happy for you! (5.00 / 1) (#78)
by ruffian on Tue May 14, 2013 at 12:22:20 PM EST

What a relief - I know the feeling too well.

Best of luck to him!!!

Parent

Proof... (5.00 / 1) (#79)
by ScottW714 on Tue May 14, 2013 at 12:42:20 PM EST

...that you can't keep a good man or woman down.

Parent

I am so happy for you both (5.00 / 1) (#81)
by MO Blue on Tue May 14, 2013 at 01:23:30 PM EST

Hope this is the opportunity that he has been waiting for.

Parent

This is such great news, GA6th. (5.00 / 1) (#82)
by caseyOR on Tue May 14, 2013 at 01:39:00 PM EST

Do you have to move for this job, or can you stay where you are?

Parent

: No (none / 0) (#90)
by Ga6thDem on Tue May 14, 2013 at 04:01:11 PM EST

moving but I would not have minded moving to some of the places that he looked at namely New Mexico. That really sounds like an interesting state.

Parent

Congrats! (5.00 / 1) (#83)
by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue May 14, 2013 at 01:42:56 PM EST

Parent

This is wonderful news - I am so happy (5.00 / 2) (#85)
by Anne on Tue May 14, 2013 at 03:00:04 PM EST

for your husband, and for you, because I know you've been worrying for him as well as about him.

Having been through that experience, I know that that feeling of having that huge weight come off your shoulders, and being able to really breathe again, is one of almost indescribable relief. Not to mention that hope returns to your life and you realize that the future isn't something you think about with fear and dread.

I'm sure you have catching up to do, but you'll be going in the right direction now - up! - and that's really terrific news.

Do something to celebrate, even if it's not something expensive - and we'll all join you in spirit and raise a glass of cheer at your great news!

Parent

Obama administration appeals Plan B ruling (none / 0) (#1)
by MO Blue on Mon May 13, 2013 at 04:17:59 PM EST

NEW YORK -- The Obama administration on Monday filed a last-minute appeal to delay the sale of the morning-after contraceptive pill to girls of any age without a prescription.
The legal paperwork asked the 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Manhattan to postpone a federal judge's ruling that eliminated age limits on the pill while the government appeals that overall decision. link

More of the same... (5.00 / 2) (#2)
by shoephone on Mon May 13, 2013 at 04:29:40 PM EST

schizoid policies from this administration. Frankly, I've mostly zoned out since the election and don't expect to start paying attention again until about January 2016.

Parent

: I'm (none / 0) (#3)
by lentinel on Mon May 13, 2013 at 04:37:57 PM EST

feeling the same way.
He is so predictable that it is hardly worth the energy to notice.
It's how I wound up feeling about Bush. Just have to wait for this to blow over.
I just hope we make it out alive...

Parent

I remember in 2008 (none / 0) (#32)
by TeresaInPa on Mon May 13, 2013 at 09:35:25 PM EST

when all the Obamabots at dkos were talking about how cool and progressive they were and how they wanted a woman president, just not "that woman" Clinton. The woman they kept bringing up as a shining star of progressive hope was Kathleen Sebelius. YES, she was the one they wanted as their first woman president.
Social Security, Medicare, endless war, women's right to the latest in birth control and choice.... what else are these great progressives going to do for us?

Parent

Today's totally cool videos, covering ... (none / 0) (#9)
by Donald from Hawaii on Mon May 13, 2013 at 05:48:10 PM EST

... two entirely different subject:

A 5-min. film shot by Claude Frisse-Greene in the "Heart of an Empire" that was London, England during the summer of 1927 IN COLOR. (As you'll note, despite the obvious motorized traffic, this was an era when horse-drawn carts and carriages were still relatively common sights on city streets.)
"When did you choose to be straight?" (Given the answers you hear and the real-time reconsideration you see, this is a question that obviously needed to be asked of people a long time ago.)

: That 1927 color film (none / 0) (#14)
by brodie on Mon May 13, 2013 at 07:28:50 PM EST

was well done with seemingly an objective to capture the look of the city for future observers far ahead in time, and also well preserved by someone. Looks fresh.
Not that, except for the red buses, there's a lot of color to be found in that rain-gray town, known for its sound.

Parent
: Another Super Cool Video (none / 0) (#63)
by ScottW714 on Tue May 14, 2013 at 09:00:00 AM EST

Astronaut Covers `Space Oddity' From Space
He either back today or on his way. this is probably the coolest music video I have ever seen, and without a doubt, the best cover, eva.

Parent

What a rip off. (none / 0) (#10)
by MO Blue on Mon May 13, 2013 at 05:51:12 PM EST

I get one of the highest priced Medicare D prescription plans because I am at risk for another occurrence of cancer. Just found out that my Medicare RX provider moved a couple of the more popular generic prescription pain meds into class 3. IOW in most cases you pay the entire cost of the generic ($24.88) and the insurance company pays nothing - zero - zip - nada.

Mt Part D plan, also not a cheap one, (5.00 / 1) (#12)
by caseyOR on Mon May 13, 2013 at 06:23:59 PM EST

moved a couple of my generics into Tier 4. Now, my co-pay for one of them is $90/month. Last year the co-pay for the same drug was $7. I am talking about a generic drug, the kind that we are supposed to take because they are supposed to be so much cheaper.

My doctor suggested I look into RX Outreach, a group that provides medications at lower prices. This is income based. So, you'd need to see if you qualify.

If I get this one medication through RX Outreach I will pay $25 for a 3 month supply. So, it is well-worth the rather simple paperwork that is required.

Check them out, Mo. Maybe it will work for you.

Parent

I happen to be in the category (5.00 / 1) (#13)
by MO Blue on Mon May 13, 2013 at 07:26:34 PM EST

called scr&wed. I'm am just ever so slightly over the income levels required for programs like RX Outreach.

The hype about big phara agreeing to close the donut hole in exchange for Medicare not negotiating prices or allowing reimportation is just so much BS. The drug companies have just reclassified a lot of the popular generic drugs so that they rip off everyone on generic drugs and they don't pay any of the cost.

I am lucky that normally I don't have to take many prescription drugs on a regular basis. My prescription Vitamin D (50,000 ut) pills are also not covered by insurance and straight out of pocket. Boo! Hiss! Occasional antibiotics and some muscle relaxers when my back, neck or knee act up. I buy the more expensive Part D plan because I have been at high risk for another bout of cancer and I will remain in that group for another year or so. IIRC the insurance paid out less than $50.00 for all of last year. So I am truly buying insurance.

I broke my arm up by the shoulder a couple of weeks ago. Due to the placement of the break, they don't put it in a cast. They put it in a sling which doesn't keep it completely immobile and it remains painful at times. The break has caused my lymphodema to flair up and my neck and shoulder are becoming painful from lack of normal movement. Thus the need for pain pills. I was in so much pain when I got the first prescription filled for a small quantity of pills I did not notice that the insurance did not pay anything. What a crock. I finally need more prescription drugs only to find that the insurance company isn't going to pay for them.

Yes Obama was right. We are seeing some of the "benefits" of Obamacare right now. I get to pay almost $25.00 for something that should cost me $5.00 or less.

Parent

That is terrible that you have to go through this (none / 0) (#15)
by shoephone on Mon May 13, 2013 at 07:35:55 PM EST

I'm sorry to hear it. You have had enough pain already. And unfortunately, there isn't a fix for it, because of Obama's back room deals with Big Pharma -- no negotiating on generics and drug re-importation from Canada. It truly sucks. I wish you didn't have to deal with this nonsense.

Parent

: Thanks shoephone (5.00 / 3) (#20)
by MO Blue on Mon May 13, 2013 at 08:52:58 PM EST

I'm sorry that we all have to deal with this. No reason other than legalized corruption that anyone should have to pay for insurance and still pay $25 - $95 for generic drugs that should cost $5 - $7. I'm paying big bucks for prescription drug coverage and the insurance company has rigged the game so that they don't pay one penny for popular generic drugs.

Parent

Get yourself some Tiger Balm patches (none / 0) (#16)
by nycstray on Mon May 13, 2013 at 07:44:43 PM EST

and just plain Tiger Balm. I sleep with the patches if I feel one of my flare ups coming on and it really helps keep things at a minimum level (muscle/joint). Also epsom salt baths. Both may help keep the pain pills not as needed :) Sorry you're going through this and I hope your break heals it's self damn quick.

Parent

Thanks for the info (none / 0) (#19)
by MO Blue on Mon May 13, 2013 at 08:44:57 PM EST

I will look into the Tiger Balm. I much prefer not to take pain meds.

Went to the doc today. He said 6 to 8 weeks total for the break to heal and another couple of months of physical therapy to get my range of motion back and my lymphedema back under control. I'm hoping to be off the pain meds for the most part in the next 1 or 2 weeks.

Start of whine: Don't like the pain, pain meds, not able to exercise or dance or sleeping on my back. Also typing with one hand in a hunt and peck method is a real b!tch. End of whine.

Parent

I swear by it. :) (none / 0) (#45)
by nycstray on Mon May 13, 2013 at 11:37:25 PM EST

I don't think there would be a prob, but check to make sure it's okay if you have pain killers in your system.

My old leg injury is flaring up (feels like two hands are trying to rip open my calf muscle without pain meds) and rubbing it down with TB or using the patch overnight REALLY helps. I think I know what I was doing to get the pain going again, so using TB before I do it to relax the muscle gives me a step up on the pain. But the overnight 'medicating' really is spot on. And the TB patches do not rip the skin like some of the others I have used.

I hope it can help you, as I'm not big on pain meds either. Or pain :) If the patch works for you, then just buy the little jar of balm, cost wise, it works better, imo.

Parent

It also comes in a liquid which I prefer to the (none / 0) (#46)
by Angel on Mon May 13, 2013 at 11:49:51 PM EST

balm or patches. We're longtime Tiger Balm believers in this household.

Parent

: Oh my, I did not know that (none / 0) (#50)
by nycstray on Tue May 14, 2013 at 12:14:25 AM EST

I just remember the balm from back in the day, so that's where I've always gone, then discovered the patches. Will now look for the liquid :) Thank you!!!

Parent

Ah, MO, that just sucks. (none / 0) (#17)
by caseyOR on Mon May 13, 2013 at 07:50:49 PM EST

I am so sorry you are going through all this. Is there no way to appeal this decision by your Part D plan to not cover the pain meds? I realize that if an appeal process exists it will be very difficult to get through, but it might be an option.

Maybe your doctor could call the Part D plan?

Reclassifying generics to charge outrageous prices should be illegal. I know, I know, fat chance of this president or probably any president really going to bat for people against Big Pharma.

F^ck 'em all, I say.

Parent

Hopefully, this prescription (none / 0) (#18)
by MO Blue on Mon May 13, 2013 at 08:26:25 PM EST

will tide me over until I don't need the pain meds anymore. I'm not much on taking pills so I normally try and get off of them ASAP. If for some reason I need another prescription, I think I might be able to find one that is still Tier 1.

One or two prescriptions I can do. I am more concerned about people who are not quite poor enough to get any financial assistance but have to take drugs on a daily basis. I might fall in this category down the road. This reclassification of generic drugs to Tier 3 & Tier 4 is going to have a negative financial impact at a time when seniors were told that they would be paying less for prescription drugs since Obamacare was signed into law.

Parent

: Hope you are soon feeling better. (none / 0) (#48)
by Angel on Mon May 13, 2013 at 11:50:32 PM EST

Parent

sorry to hear this MO (none / 0) (#36)
by fishcamp on Mon May 13, 2013 at 09:57:54 PM EST

don't forget aspirin and ibuprofen help reduce swelling and therefore pain. you're right about medicare part D not covering as much as it used to and some generic pills are exactly the same price as the real or original ones. It's hard to just chill at home and wait to heal. my old ski racing injuries seem to be cropping up now later in life. hope you feel better soon.

Parent

Thanks (none / 0) (#43)
by MO Blue on Mon May 13, 2013 at 11:12:59 PM EST

They did give me a prescription for extra strength (800 mg) ibuprofen. It is still a Tier 1 drug and a good deal for $5.00. I normally take that during the day and save the more potent stuff for the evening since I'm a light weight when it comes to drugs and tend to fall asleep after taking he heavy duty pain meds.

Unfortunately none of my current or old injuries are from anything as exciting as ski racing.

Should feel better in a couple of weeks according to the doc.

Parent

Curious as to why (none / 0) (#53)
by CoralGables on Tue May 14, 2013 at 06:04:25 AM EST

someone would buy higher dose prescriptions of ibuprofen when you'd get the same thing by upping the number of Advil tablets you take available OTC.

A doctor once wrote me a prescription for 500mg tablets of naproxen and said to take two. When I questioned him about Aleve he said, "well if you want to save money go ahead and take 4 Aleve and forget the prescription. It's close enough".

Parent

Higher dose ibuprofen (none / 0) (#55)
by fishcamp on Tue May 14, 2013 at 06:20:30 AM EST

last longer and you're not consuming as much filler material in taking one pill instead of four.

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: When you say "last longer"... (none / 0) (#58)
by unitron on Tue May 14, 2013 at 07:51:28 AM EST

...do you mean the ones you actually ingest continue providing pain relief longer than if you got the same dosage by more of the "smaller" ones, or that the ones not yet ingested can sit there in the bottle and not "go bad" or "age out" as soon?

Parent

Actually the prescription is cheaper than (none / 0) (#57)
by MO Blue on Tue May 14, 2013 at 07:50:35 AM EST

taking 4 Aleve instead of 1 800 mg pill. Price not much different or slightly cheaper than generic ibuprofen depending on where you get them. I got a 30 day supply (3 x day) for $5.00. I would need to take 360 o/c pills.

Parent

: Gotcha (none / 0) (#60)
by CoralGables on Tue May 14, 2013 at 08:06:53 AM EST

Thought you meant $5 a pill and I would have been quickly headed to my nearest purveyor of cheap OTC instead.

Parent

I had to look up taking four Aleve (none / 0) (#59)
by Militarytracy on Tue May 14, 2013 at 08:06:22 AM EST

I know you aren't going to do something bad for your bod. I have taken two Aleve when my shoulder was giving me fits but did not know you could take four. I have taken four Ibuprofen before because the military facilities seem to think that Ibuprofen fixes everything and hands out scripts for 500 and 800 mg like they are skittles.

So you can take four Aleve, haven't needed to yet but it is good to know.

Did discover what was inflaming my shoulder, I may have damaged it some with the exercise that I was doing but the clincher is my allergy shot. I have the inflammation under control now but every shot day it flares and aches. My doctor began giving me my shot on only one side because my left shoulder began to inflame too before we figured it out. No need to inflame two shoulders.

Parent

: MT (5.00 / 1) (#62)
by CoralGables on Tue May 14, 2013 at 08:13:02 AM EST

Aleve comes in 220's. Prescription dose for Naproxen is usually a pair of 500's. That's what the orthopedic told me to take an hour before playing the outfield for a serious case of shoulder tendonitis (worked like a charm).
Still better to take nothing if you can manage without. There can be consequences, especially if you get dehydrated.

Parent

I have been out of the country (none / 0) (#101)
by KeysDan on Wed May 15, 2013 at 04:48:12 PM EST

for the past weeks and am just catching up on events and comments. In that process, I was saddened to learn of your injury and look forward hearing of your speedy recovery, including that critical component of treatment-- physical therapy.

While not related to the specifics of your case, it brings to mind the legal issues related to pain control that have evolved as a result of enforcement fervor for the illegitimate use of drugs intended for pain so as to hamper the legitimate treatment of pain and severe discomfort.

Moreover, the concerns of some patients for becoming "addicted" to drugs for pain control has, on occasion, become irrational--to the extent that even hospice patients may be willing to forego comfort in fear of becoming addicted.

Opiates and their synthetic analogs have provided, historically, effective relief for pain. While not without their side effects, major (addiction in some instances with continued use) or minor (constipation), drowsiness), it should be noted that NSAIDs, such as Ibuprofen, are not without their side effects, especially with longer term usage. Metabolized by the liver and/or excreted by the kidneys, these drugs need to be taken with caution in the instance of liver impairment or kidney dysfunction. And, of course, there are the serious issues with NSAIDs of gastro-intestinal problems as well as the dangers of concomitant use of alcohol or other drugs.

Parent

I see I'm going to need... (5.00 / 2) (#23)
by kdog on Mon May 13, 2013 at 09:12:02 PM EST

a longer shopping list next time I go to Mexico. Pennies on the dollar, no insurance no prescription rackets.

Maybe this is how we can fund the pirate ship...re-importing medicine. Or get to hacking.

Talk about scandals...hang in there you guys.

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Be careful what you try to cross back with (none / 0) (#25)
by CoralGables on Mon May 13, 2013 at 09:13:31 PM EST

It can send you to jail

Parent

I'm kidding of course... (none / 0) (#26)
by kdog on Mon May 13, 2013 at 09:16:41 PM EST

just trying to cheer Mo to the B and Cap'n Casey up.

I would never dream of bringing back asthma inhalers for my moms 7 for the price of one, that would be wrong.

Parent

7 would probably pass (none / 0) (#28)
by CoralGables on Mon May 13, 2013 at 09:20:45 PM EST

24 likely not lol (unless you're young and blonde)

Parent

Ask Oculus... (none / 0) (#29)
by kdog on Mon May 13, 2013 at 09:26:22 PM EST

you would never guess me mildly subversive, I'm under the radar mild-mannered that way.

If god-forbid I did get caught, I'm putting you in charge of taking up a collection and putting Peter G on the case. We'll put the system on trial!

Parent

And in the meantime, the system ... (none / 0) (#31)
by Donald from Hawaii on Mon May 13, 2013 at 09:32:06 PM EST

... will be having lunch with the judge assigned to hear the case.

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: That's where you come in.. (none / 0) (#37)
by kdog on Mon May 13, 2013 at 09:59:08 PM EST

use your government contacts to get the judge to meet me for cocktails, if I can make bail. Surely his/her honor and I can come to an understanding.
If the 45 million dollar ATM heist taught us anything, it's about teamwork. There's hope yet people! ;)

Parent

Youngish. Excellent company. Will (none / 0) (#42)
by oculus on Mon May 13, 2013 at 10:53:18 PM EST

Travel to Manhattan on a week night. Nno one would suspect those smoke breaks are illegal.

Parent

It's the thought that counts, kdog. (none / 0) (#52)
by caseyOR on Tue May 14, 2013 at 01:51:17 AM EST

While I would never want you to commit an illegal act for me, that you would even think about it is so nice. :-)

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Every year you can go to the Medicare (none / 0) (#34)
by TeresaInPa on Mon May 13, 2013 at 09:47:23 PM EST

web site and type in your medications. Then the site will give you the names of the plans which will be cheapest for you depending on what you are taking. It is a way of keeping track of the part D plans and what changes they are making in their prices.

Parent

Yep (5.00 / 1) (#38)
by MO Blue on Mon May 13, 2013 at 10:03:43 PM EST

that is great if you know what meds you will need for the year. If all meds remain the same without any change or any new drugs added, you have a better chance of picking the right plan.

At the end of the year, I could have typed in Vitamin D 50,000 ut, my one ongoing prescription, and been told that it was not covered by any plan.

Didn't put breaking my arm on my list of things to do for 2013, let alone know what kind of meds I would need.

Parent

: yes (none / 0) (#100)
by TeresaInPa on Wed May 15, 2013 at 08:00:18 AM EST

not nearly as helpful for people who switch meds more often.

Parent

And that is exactly what I did last fall. (5.00 / 3) (#44)
by caseyOR on Mon May 13, 2013 at 11:15:37 PM EST

At the start of the sign-up period the old price for my drug was in effect. The Part D plan changed it after I had re-upped for this year. So, checking on theMedicare website did me no good whatsoever with this.

And, as MO Blue pointed out, this system requires that one know in advance, by reading tea leaves or throwing the I Ching or something, all the medications one might possibly need in the coming year because each plan does not cover all drugs.

Anyone who has had to deal with Part D knows that the claim that Obamacare and its exchanges will make it easy for people to find and buy the right insurance plan for their needs is a crock.

The entire healthcare delivery system in this country is going to crash and burn. I hope it happens sooner rather than later. Then we can get about the business of Medicare for All.

Parent

: I agree (none / 0) (#99)
by TeresaInPa on Wed May 15, 2013 at 07:59:28 AM EST

medicare for all. But that is not going to save us from part D unfortunately. While the ability to check on to the medicare site is not a solution for everyone, it can help people who stay on the same meds more or less year after year.

Parent

Welcome to the wonderful world of ... (none / 0) (#30)
by Donald from Hawaii on Mon May 13, 2013 at 09:30:48 PM EST

... free market medicine. My condolences, if this is your first experience with it after surviving cancer.

I'm a 3X cancer survivor myself, and it's long seemed like insurance companies were doing their damnedest to ensure that I'd never survive a fourth bout. At least now, they can't just cancel my coverage at whim.

Aloha.

Parent

: Congrats for being a 3X survivor (none / 0) (#35)
by MO Blue on Mon May 13, 2013 at 09:50:55 PM EST

This is the first time I've run across a generic drug being classified as anything other than Tier 1. According to the insurance company they just reclassed them this year. Paying the full price for generic drugs may well cost more than what I paid as the co-pay on some of the brand name drugs when I was treated for cancer.
Never had to face the chance that they would cancel my coverage on a whim. I can understand why that is a big relief. Of course I am of the opinion that provision could have been included in legislation that offered better more affordable care than what we wound up with.

Parent

Aloha, Dr. Joyce Brothers (1927-2013). (none / 0) (#11)
by Donald from Hawaii on Mon May 13, 2013 at 06:06:56 PM EST

Dr. Brothers died today in New York City. An accomplished academic and media personality who definitely put the "pop" in pop psychology, she was a pioneer in the art of radio talk shows back in the 1950s, was a prolific writer with numerous books and thousands of newspaper columns to her credit, and appeared on The Tonight Show Starring Johnny Carson over 100 times. Rest in peace.

: Agreed, and perhaps an (none / 0) (#102)
by KeysDan on Wed May 15, 2013 at 05:01:40 PM EST

important "tip of the hat" to her pop standing was from Mel Brooks in "High Anxiety" (1977). one of my favorite comedies. In his suspense parody (Hitchcock's Vertigo), Mel's character, Dr.Richard HarpoThorndyke, director of the Psycho-Neurotic Institute for the Very, Very Nervous, gives a talk at a shrink's convention with large pictures behind him on the stage of Sigmund Freud, Carl Jung, Alfred Adler, and---Dr. Joyce Brothers.

Parent

Favorite picture of the day (none / 0) (#27)
by CoralGables on Mon May 13, 2013 at 09:19:32 PM EST

Rachel Nichols from Turner Sports interviewing Indiana Pacers center Roy Hibbert.

Here's pictures of old Paris.... (5.00 / 1) (#40)
by desertswine on Mon May 13, 2013 at 10:28:45 PM EST

compared to the same places in new Paris. Pretty cool, you can play with them

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: Thanks! That was fun (none / 0) (#49)
by shoephone on Mon May 13, 2013 at 11:51:39 PM EST

I couldn't get my pages to translate into English, so I muddled through my not-at-all-fluent French comprehension "skills".

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can't believe that Bruins-Leafs Game 7 (none / 0) (#39)
by ExcitableBoy on Mon May 13, 2013 at 10:26:54 PM EST

I never say it's over -- I've just seen too many crazy things in Boston sports, good and bad, so I always think there's a chance -- but this thing was over. Toronto up 4-1 halfway through the 3rd period, completely outplaying us. I didn't even care when the B's scored to make it 4-2. Then two goals with the goalie pulled, almost win it at the end of regulation, then win it in OT. Amazing.

Toronto deserved to win this series. Humiliated in game 1, they completely outplayed the Bruins in game 2 to even it. Then down 3 games to 1, they came into Boston and instead of crumbling, completely dominated a dead-*ss Bruins team who should've put them away, then outplayed Boston in Toronto to force Game 7.

Boston finally manages to score first, and Toronto doesn't blink, scores a power-play goal about two minutes later to tie it, then three more before they fall apart with 10 minutes left. I'm glad we took it; it was an amazing comeback and Boston could've just folded themselves. But they'd better hope this turned it around, because this was an ugly series from a Boston standpoint, and if they keep playing that way New York will destroy them.

What a finish! (none / 0) (#65)
by kdog on Tue May 14, 2013 at 09:54:31 AM EST

They must really be crying in their Labatts in Toronto.

Make sure your Bruins beat the Rangers for me will ya? ;)

Love the moniker btw, a Zevon fan I take it?

Parent

: If I had any effect on the Bruins (none / 0) (#76)
by ExcitableBoy on Tue May 14, 2013 at 12:01:26 PM EST

this series wouldn't have gone 7. But I'll try -- always good when a New York team goes down...
Buffalo doesn't count because it's not the city, but I was at the Game 7 when Brad Park knocked them out in OT. Great memory. I was drunk and saw a ladder so I climbed it. It led to the catwalk above the ice. I'm a stupid 19-or so year old kid staggering on the catwalk above the ice, right next to the banners.
Always liked Zevon, and the song had been running around my head for a few days when I used it for the TL account. When "Keep Me in Your Heart" comes around on my MP3, it chokes me up a little. Reminds me of everyone we keep.

Parent

sorry to hear about that break, MO (none / 0) (#41)
by ExcitableBoy on Mon May 13, 2013 at 10:44:00 PM EST

tougher when it's up where they can't even cast it. Don't know if the smokeable pain reliever is your thing, but it could definitely help. From what I've heard.

Monday Afternoon Open Thread | 101 comments (101 topical)

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