Consumer News Update

If you shopped at a Target store from Black Friday to around December 15, beware. There's been a massive data breach of customer credit card information (online customers are not affected.)

It's time to stock up on 40 and 60 watt bulbs. They won't be made in the U.S. starting Jan. 1.

I may skip Christmas this year, or at least the shopping. What are your plans?

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    LEDs (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu Dec 19, 2013 at 10:11:43 AM EST
    You may find the recent crop of LED lights very, very acceptable over incandescent bulbs.  They tend to have nice color rendition.  Utilities are offering great rebates that make them extremely affordable, with the caveat that you have to buy the bulbs locally (not mail order) to get the rebates.  You can also easily find dimmable and even decorative ones.

    Unlike compact fluorescents, LEDs aren't a fire hazard and don't contain mercury.  And they actually last for close to the promised timeframe, aren't sensitive to on-off cycles like compact fluorescents are.

    Best of all! They use about a quarter the energy of incandescents.

    I was a hard sell, but we bought some 40-watter's at Costco for about $2.50/each and I absolutely love them.   When I'm sewing sometimes I forget that I'm running my LED light and I think the sun just peeked out.  They are fine, fine, fine.

    I "cancelled" Christmas last week and am sending the DH to his parents'.  The world feels very bleak to me right now and Christmas just made me feel worse.


    $2.50 each? Wow. That's quite a price drop (none / 0) (#4)
    by Mr Natural on Thu Dec 19, 2013 at 10:19:49 AM EST
    from where they were a few years ago.

    Very sad. (none / 0) (#5)
    by oculus on Thu Dec 19, 2013 at 10:20:01 AM EST
    Costco: I bought a pair of NiteDawg ... (none / 0) (#6)
    by Mr Natural on Thu Dec 19, 2013 at 10:27:22 AM EST
    ... LED illuminated dog collars, so we can locate our pooches when we let them out at night.  They glow a bright red, perfect for the Holidays against a backdrop of snow.

    There are Just Some Instances... (none / 0) (#7)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Dec 19, 2013 at 10:35:31 AM EST
    ...where CF fall short, like closets, something where you need 100% light immediately because you are in an out in 10 seconds.

    Plus they change color over time, they get bluer and the ones above my sink, only shine the same brightness for about a month.  It's bothersome to have 4 lights of varying colors and brightness even through they same form the same box.  So while they might last longer, the time in which they are aesthetically pleasing is much shorter.

    I also don't like the flood lights in my kitchen needing about a minute to warm up when it's cold outside.

    But I still like them better than incandescent, especially here in Texas, where the AC is running all day in the summer.  They put off some much heat, so not only do they draw more energy, you also need energy to over come the heat they produce.  Good for winner in which that wasted energy is actually beneficial.  It was noticeable difference on my first bill when I did a major conversion.  I was shocked.

    I love LED's.  Instead of having a drawer full of flashlights with dead or near dead batteries, I bought a pack of small LED flashlights, and now I never run into needing one and not having one.  And because they take AA's, if we get hit with a hurricane, lighting will not be a worry.  Even bought a lantern that can easily light up my living room.

    I am at the Costco website, the cheapest I see LED is $10.  Help me Teresa.  I don't need $2.50 bulbs, but $10 is too much.


    And I Thought... (none / 0) (#8)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Dec 19, 2013 at 10:36:08 AM EST
    ...they quite making incandescent bulbs long ago.

    I was having trouble sleeping, (none / 0) (#11)
    by the capstan on Thu Dec 19, 2013 at 01:10:43 PM EST
    and my med school son informed me the CF bulb I sat under was the culprit.  I found an incandescent in the cabinet and that did the trick.  When it burned out (it probably was not new), I bought one labeled 'REVEAL' (tm) and it seems to be ok.  If it causes trouble or I cannot replace it, do LED's resemble CFs or incandescent in light quality?          

    Are they safe when used upside down?   (Some CF's used to explode when used in ceiling fans, etc.)  Anyone know?


    IMO, They Out Perform... (none / 0) (#16)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Dec 19, 2013 at 02:49:09 PM EST
    ... every light bulb that we commonly use.  The issue right now is they are expensive.  Above, she got bulbs for $2.50, but I have never seen them less than $10 and the flood lights in my kitchen are around $50 and there are 6 of them.

    That is good to know about CF's and sleep, I did some quick research and turns out they don't emit certain kinds of light waves that we need to produce melatonin, which regulates the circadian rhythms, the sleep cycle, but LED's do.

    I also ran into several articles discussing CF and ultraviolet light, apparently there is some sort of coating on the inside to prevent UV rays from escaping, but when they twist the tubes, the coating cracks on nearly every bulb.

    I will look into this more at home tonight, but thanks for the info.


    As I've said, (none / 0) (#18)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu Dec 19, 2013 at 03:51:57 PM EST
    You need to look locally.  You can find great rebates on LEDs but they will be offered through your LOCAL utility, thus only available via brick and mortar.

    light waves needed to produce melatonin (none / 0) (#73)
    by Mr Natural on Sun Dec 22, 2013 at 12:12:12 PM EST
    The Sun does a fine job of this, millions of years of evolution, etc.  A walk in the winter sun will do you a world of good.

    The $2.50 (none / 0) (#14)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu Dec 19, 2013 at 01:59:08 PM EST
    price, is WITH rebate, as I've said.

    You can't get the price online.  The rebate is a local utility perk.

    If you live in the Seattle area, you can find the LED lighting rebates in your local warehouse.

    Yes, that's another plus with LEDs.  They quick start and they don't change color quite as readily over time.  


    Most (none / 0) (#15)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu Dec 19, 2013 at 02:21:27 PM EST
    of the utilities are doing the rebates.  And often times they are instant rebates found in stores.

    My wife, the I.T. specialist.... (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by Dadler on Thu Dec 19, 2013 at 10:38:45 AM EST
    ...is gobsmacked that a company as big as Target could allow this to happen. Not that she thinks it's not possible, just that a company with the resources Target has should not be having a hack this big ever. And I trust my lovely lady.

    As for X-mas, I have my mother-in-law coming into town tomorrow for a week, then my mother and her husband plus my sister and her hubby arrive the next day. With what my mother and I have gone through emotionally in the last few weeks, I'm looking forward to giving her a big hug, kiss on the cheek, and then look at her and say, "It's over, we're healed, those lousy men who left us can carry the burden. I love my father, but he when he was a younger and more selfish man, he left me and my mother, and we ended up on welfare and food stamps in the tough inner city of L.A.. I'm just hoping this is the first holiday that my mother and I no longer have the wall up. We shall see.

    As for my mother-in-law, god (that I don't believe in) bless her, I am very lucky. She went through much of the same things I did as a kid, her mother was a teenager, an alcoholic, she had a couple of stepfathers and stepmothers and half-siblings, and she is SO understanding and compassionate with me, I can hardly believe my good fortune in this area. On Saturday night, we'll all be going out for dinner in Pacifica. I'm looking forward to it as I haven't looked forward to one of these things in a long time, maybe ever.

    Hope the rest of you have a lovely holiday.


    The very best of holidays (none / 0) (#12)
    by the capstan on Thu Dec 19, 2013 at 01:15:52 PM EST
    to you!  (My son-in-law is on the way to visit his birth mother--who never took him home--and his half-sister).  That is one compassionate guy--but he was darn lucky in his adoptive family.

    Amazing. And fraught. (none / 0) (#21)
    by oculus on Thu Dec 19, 2013 at 06:03:29 PM EST
    Thanks for the heads up... (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by kdog on Thu Dec 19, 2013 at 01:39:49 PM EST
    I got a small cache of the trusty old bulbs...need to up my inventory before it's too late.

    I know ya make it up in "the long run" in energy savings and all, but I have a serious aversion to parting with a sawbuck for a f*cking lightbulb.  Besides, in "the long run", humans will be extinct and the earth will heal herself once we're gone.

    New Mexico Supreme Court has ruled (5.00 / 2) (#17)
    by Peter G on Thu Dec 19, 2013 at 03:09:57 PM EST
    that same sex couples have an equal right to receive state-issued marriage licenses.

    That's 17 down, and 33 to go. (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Dec 19, 2013 at 07:26:45 PM EST
    Given that the LGBT community was very much on the defensive on this issue only a decade ago and getting regularly smashed at the polls, the rapid crumbling of public support for opponents of same-sex marriage has been both dramatic and striking.

    While it's far too early to really have a definitive take on the matter, if I had to guess, I think most historians will point to the Pyrrhic victory gained by Proposition 8 supporters in California in the Nov. 2008 election as the struggle's actual turning point.

    Prop. 8 was a measure that passed only narrowly in the first place, and one in which many CA citizens very quickly came to second-guess their own votes in favor, the more they learned about the actual subterfuge perpetrated by the Mormon and Catholic Churches to fund the efforts of the measure's proponents. When U.S. Judge Vaughn Walker struck down Prop. 8 as unconstitutional, most residents were content to let that ruling stand.

    What a difference four years makes, eh? In 2012, placing a gay marriage ban on the public ballot in Minnesota proved a disastrous move for state Republicans, who not only lost that vote but also control of the legislature and the governor's office as well.

    Perhaps within five years, it'll be the law of the land, and hopefully soon, our children and grandchildren will start to look to us and shake their heads in sad bemusement over all the fuss to be had in the first place.



    Funny you should say how many to go (none / 0) (#57)
    by Peter G on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 07:58:42 PM EST
    One day later, it's 32 to go. Utah!?  Who'da thunk it??

    Taking the battle into the opponents' camp. (none / 0) (#65)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 07:22:47 PM EST
    At this point, if the opposition can't hold Utah, it's merely a matter of time.

    I will wait for the state's appeal (none / 0) (#67)
    by Peter G on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 09:33:17 PM EST
    to the Tenth Circuit before I declare Utah to be a definite win for the good guys.  That said, nationwide recognition of the freedom to marry, in my opinion, is inevitable within the next half dozen years.  This battle is going to be won, no matter how Utah goes in 2013 or 2014.

    A hearing is scheduled for Monday morning (none / 0) (#75)
    by Peter G on Sun Dec 22, 2013 at 01:54:42 PM EST
    in the district court on whether the judge will grant a stay.  Applications for a stay of the ruling are pending both before the district judge and before the Court of Appeals in Denver. Recall that the California injunction was stayed (put on hold) during the pendency of that appeal, all the way until after the Supreme Court had ruled.  In litigation such as this, the courts tend to favor preserving the status quo while appeals are pending.

    Apparently, Utah's request for a stay ... (none / 0) (#77)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Dec 23, 2013 at 01:16:05 AM EST
    ... was denied today, and 10th Circuit didn't bother to wait until Monday:

    "In the absence of such evidence, the State's unsupported fears and speculations are insufficient to justify the State's refusal to dignify the family relationships of its gay and lesbian citizens."
    -- U.S. District Judge Robert J. Shelby, 10th Circuit Court of Appeals, Kitchen v. Herbert, Case No. 13-1478, Doc. No. 01019176323, Filed 12/22/2013 (D.C. No. 2:13-CV-00217-RJS) (D. Utah)

    The gates have now been officially breached at the very citadel of anti-gay marriage opposition, the State of Utah. And all the King's horses and all the King's men couldn't put Humpty together again, presumably because they're attending a Barbra Streisand concert in celebration.



    The TV station you are relying on (none / 0) (#82)
    by Peter G on Mon Dec 23, 2013 at 08:55:55 AM EST
    has no idea what it is talking about.  The linked order is Sunday's denial by two Circuit Judges of the Tenth Circuit ("without prejudice," that is, leaving open what they might do in the future) of the state's motion for an "emergency stay" (over the weekend), pending the hearing District Judge Shelby has scheduled for today, Monday morning.  The quoted language is not from the linked order.  For reliable, up to date information, I strongly recommend you rely on SCOTUSBlog. Right now, there is no stay in place, but the district court is considering this morning whether to grant a stay.  Let's see what he does. I could easily see it going either way.

    Thanks for the heads-up. (none / 0) (#85)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Dec 23, 2013 at 11:12:06 AM EST
    So, basically, they kicked it back to Shelby himself to determine. Interesting. Yeah, I could se him putting a stay on his own ruling this morning, pending appeal.

    District Court denied a stay Monday morning (none / 0) (#87)
    by Peter G on Mon Dec 23, 2013 at 12:48:56 PM EST
    according to the local newspaper.  Now the state goes back to the court of appeals in Denver ("Tenth Circuit"), which I would guess will have the final word (although theoretically subject to review by Justice Sotomayor (who supervises that Circuit)).

    To be continued (none / 0) (#88)
    by Peter G on Mon Dec 23, 2013 at 03:08:01 PM EST
    under Monday open thread.

    I cut way back on Christmas this year too (5.00 / 2) (#22)
    by ruffian on Thu Dec 19, 2013 at 06:42:57 PM EST
    due to both lack off inspiration and less income this year. I did have a good idea for my niece and nephew in college though - their college bookstore (they both go to U of Memphis) sells gift cards. I'm sure many other college bookstores do to.  The bookstores have everything these days, so I'm sure that will be a gift they will appreciate more than me trying to guess at something else.

    I like it when I have good ideas, but get frustrated shopping otherwise. And when I an stressed out I get fewer ideas - typically work is so busy in the couple of weeks before the holiday break that I don't have enough peace to get in the spirit. Like this week.

    So I am trying to fight the holiday blahs by counting my blessings and spending time with friends. It is working pretty well!  Then next week I will visit my brother and his family and the fun will start.

    I have not been to Target in months...but I went this week, on the 17th! So I am hoping I missed the data compromising period. They sucked me in last year with their debit card that gives me 5% off. I'm wondering if those cards were the key to the data-stealing.

    Me three... (5.00 / 2) (#36)
    by kdog on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 08:33:36 AM EST
    and many others cutback this year.  My siblings and I agreed not to exchange this cuz 3/4th's of us are fairly broke, and just be merry enjoying each other's company.  Christmas is for the kids, really...I'm just spoiling my nieces and nephew, and of course Moms.

    The college bookstore giftcard is a great idea...I give the college kids cash and I wrote a note in their cards..."Here's a hundo, that should buy you half a textbook next semester.  Or 8 cases of cheap beer, choose wisely!".


    They note is classic Kdog! (none / 0) (#37)
    by oculus on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 08:44:57 AM EST
    Turns out the Target (none / 0) (#24)
    by ruffian on Thu Dec 19, 2013 at 07:46:52 PM EST
    theft was done by hackers putting malware on the target point of sale system that sucked up the credit and debit information, and PINs, so I guess their Target debit card was no less secure than any other.

    We cut back on the "stuffing" of (none / 0) (#29)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Dec 19, 2013 at 08:34:19 PM EST
    Christmas. One major gift each for adults, a few desired smaller items.  We dejunked it.  We stuck to a three gift max from grandparents to the grandkids too.  Tristan made out, but he didn't have much and is shedding babyhood fast.  He was the only person who needed some "stuff".  Zoey and Naomi already seem like they have everything and my daughter complains that they are not learning the value of things with grandparents throwing gifts around wildly.

    I seem to be cutting back on (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by oculus on Thu Dec 19, 2013 at 09:21:03 PM EST
    actually putting lights and ornaments on the laege and pricey tree in my living room. I shelled out $40 just to get it from my car into the stand in the living room.  Will my brothers care?  Likely not.

    I did not put up the huge tree this year (none / 0) (#31)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 05:51:06 AM EST
    I put up a much smaller version from days of poor.  I thought all this was me going through a Scrooge phase but my neighborhood has only about half the decorations up it has in past years.  My neighbor who puts all sorts of stuff up didn't put the inflatables up until yesterday and he seemed pretty grumpy doing it.  Some kind of social shift maybe? Maybe the realization much of the nation was working low paying jobs on Thanksgiving Day in an attempt to try to stay alive slapped us all a bit and woke us up.

    To Jeralyn and all the jaded: (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 03:21:43 PM EST
    Jesus Rebranded.

    To honor of the Winter Solstice -- which I know doesn't make much sense down here in the "It's sunny and 85 again today!" tropics, but hey, neither does the friggin' concept of a fat white guy riding in a sleigh drawn by eight reindeer, just sayin' -- we decided to get in touch with our inner Celtic and take the rest of the day off with our annual impromptu Irish holiday pub crawl. We're starting off with a leisurely lunch at Murphy's Bar & Grill, before heading on to O'Toole's, J.J. Dolan's, Ferguson's Pub and finally, Anna O'Brien's.

    (And no, I'm not driving home afterward -- Elder Daughter's picking me up at Anna's at 6:00 p.m., after she gets off work.)

    Agus cuid eile an lae dhuit fein. (And the rest of the day to yourself.)



    Even my inner Celtic (none / 0) (#53)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 04:21:45 PM EST
    ( Who is my favorite inner child), just doesn't fecking care Donald.  I don't even care enough to plan alcohol consumption. I miscounted the grandchild gifting anyhow and I have five gifts per child.  I don't know how I did that, but I did.  The only item I wrote down on my social reminder Christmas calendar was the day of getting arse chewed :)

    You say "five gifts per child" ... (none / 0) (#55)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 06:44:17 PM EST
    ... like that's a bad thing. To add my two Guinness-besotted cents in:

    • Your children and grandchildren are very lucky to have such a loving mother and doting grandmother as you; and

    • Anyone who complains about getting shortchanged on Christmas Day is the one in dire need of an arse chewing, not you.

    Well, I'm off to Ferguson's. Don't sweat the small stuff, Trace. Because speaking of arses, has anyone gotten off of theirs and offered to help you? If not, perhaps you need to chew a few out yourself and direct them to do something useful.



    Thanksgiving was (none / 0) (#50)
    by Wile ECoyote on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 02:41:14 PM EST
    late this year.  It threw alot of people off.  We are not putting up as many decorations as in normal years.

    Of days

    The Christmas plan down here (none / 0) (#1)
    by fishcamp on Thu Dec 19, 2013 at 06:54:34 AM EST
    is to go fishing, stock up on 30/50/70 watt light bulbs as I'm sure they will be on the "no mas" list, and make some Christmas Tzatziki.  It's not very Christmassy down here in the fabulous Florida keys but it sure is fishy.  :-)

    My FL bro is coming to (none / 0) (#2)
    by oculus on Thu Dec 19, 2013 at 10:10:26 AM EST
    San Diego. I told him to his his fleece.

    Please don't hoard low wattage lightbulbs. You'll trigger inflation.


    Living on a boat (none / 0) (#10)
    by ragebot on Thu Dec 19, 2013 at 11:53:29 AM EST
    I normally don't have shore power.  While I do have a Honda 2000 I try to run it as little as possible.  The last time I needed it to charge up the house batteries was when Andrea's bands hit the keys and there was no sun for nine days.  Normally my electrical needs are met by around over a thousand watts of solar panels and eight hundred amp hours of house batteries.

    All my installed lights in the boat are LED, but for most of my lighting needs I have two of these bad boys that are over a year old and still able to burn for four hours or so when charged daily.  Not saying they are the only brand, but they work for me.



    Are you and fishcamp (none / 0) (#20)
    by oculus on Thu Dec 19, 2013 at 06:02:45 PM EST
    actually (as opposed to virtually) acquainted?

    Nope (none / 0) (#27)
    by ragebot on Thu Dec 19, 2013 at 07:58:51 PM EST
    I am on the ocean side in Boot Key and I think fishcamp is on the gulf side almost as far North as the Yankees live.

    My boat has a mast tall enough that getting from ocean side to gulf side is kinda big deal, especially since I am a single hander.  Once on the gulf side the water gets real skinny and not nearly as clear as on the ocean side.  My travels are more South and East than North and West.


    Correct , ragebot is on the ocean side (none / 0) (#32)
    by fishcamp on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 07:03:22 AM EST
    and I'm on the Gulf or Florida Bay side.  Strangely they are divided by the highway to Key West which has 42 bridges to cross.  Only a few of those bridges are high enough for his mast.  He would have to sail up the ocean side and cross under the very high channel 5 bridge to get to my house which is close to that bridge.  Then he would have to be good, lucky, and careful in my skinny water but it can be done.   My skiff is a trailer boat and I may trailer down to that area next year when the Tarpon start arriving again.  BTW I too have the Honda 2,000 portable generator that I've never had to use.  They are balanced to use with computers with no surge like some generators.  Not sure balanced is the correct word.  

    When you first mentioned 42 bridges (none / 0) (#33)
    by CoralGables on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 07:45:49 AM EST
    my first thought was tarpon. Then you came through as only fishcamp could by noting the true joy of many of those bridges.

    My first memory of channel 2 was watching a boat navigate the bridge about 20 minutes after hooking a mammoth silver king when the fish decided it was time to head for the ocean. Soon after I discovered that when bridge fishing from above, and the tarpon is big enough to head under the bridge for open waters, there is little one can do other than wish him a nice day.


    Not sure (none / 0) (#34)
    by ragebot on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 07:49:58 AM EST
    if you have seen this or not, but it has caused lots of friction


    I have not had problems being boarded, but several folks I know have.  FWC has been giving out tickets for things like not having a whistle in your dinky.

    It is never boring in the Keys.


    Of course you can skip shopping, Jeralyn. (none / 0) (#19)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Dec 19, 2013 at 04:03:29 PM EST
    That's why we have checkbooks. And you have an excuse for feeling a little bah, humbug this season, given that you just had to move. ;-D

    If I know specifically what someone really wants, then I'll really make the effort to get it for them. In the case of my daughters on their birthdays, I'll take them shopping and let them get what they want on my dime. But otherwise, I find it a lot easier to buy a gift card or write a check, and let the giftee get what he or she wants with it.

    It saves me the trouble of having to spend a lot of time guessing what others may or may not like, and save the giftees the hassle of having to stand in line at the store to return my erroneous guesses afterward.

    And given that we ended up having to purchase three new cars this year, and Elder Daughter knows that her car is our X-Mas present to her, we're actually looking to have a more frugal holiday season. Nothing truly austere, mind you, but nothing gratuitous either.

    Younger Daughter is returning from school in Hilo on Monday morning, and my mother and aunt arrive from Pasadena the following day. And if I know Grandma as well as I think I do, she just loves to indulge us at Christmas, and for our part, we love to be indulged.


    What Would Brian Boitano Do? (none / 0) (#25)
    by ruffian on Thu Dec 19, 2013 at 07:52:26 PM EST
    Evening funny supplied by Charlie Pierce

    Who is Congress' "Dirtiest Bird"? (none / 0) (#26)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Dec 19, 2013 at 07:57:18 PM EST
    Why, Congressman Dana Rohrabacher (R-the O.C.), of course. What in the world were they doing in that house -- keeping livestock and operating an autobody repair shop?

    Let the hoarding of inferior bulbs (none / 0) (#28)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Dec 19, 2013 at 08:28:44 PM EST
    begin except in my home.  I haven't had a regular bulb around here in over two years.  Some of the appliances still have small old versions.  I haven't checked if anything different was available for them. Even our outdoor bulbs are new age.  I have had to replace one in 2.5 yrs.  The flashlights around here are rechargeable LEDs too.

    We recently switched to the LED bulbs and (none / 0) (#35)
    by Angel on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 08:13:04 AM EST
    love them.  They give off a softer, more natural light, and they don't burn as hot as the older bulbs.  

    Now as for Target, I used debit and credit cards there during the affected time period.  Cancelled debit and credit cards when I heard the news.  What a hassle.  I think we're going to be seeing more and more of this kind of thing, unfortunately.  

    We are not gifting this year except for employee bonuses and charity.  We and our family members have everything we need.  We started cutting back a few years ago and it just feels better every year to not participate in the consumerism. We prefer to focus on family and friends instead of things.  

    Happy Holidays to everyone at TalkLeft!

    I keep tellin' y'all... (none / 0) (#38)
    by kdog on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 08:56:15 AM EST
    to use cashish...100% hacker-proof.  If you're gonna get robbed, at least make the thief get off his/her arse and sweat for it! ;)

    Not 100% (none / 0) (#39)
    by squeaky on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 09:31:46 AM EST
    I guess you never had a hundred dollar bill refused, because it was hacked.

    It happens.

    Where there is will there is a way.


    I've had a hundo... (none / 0) (#41)
    by kdog on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 09:44:24 AM EST
    refused for lack of change...are you talking about assumed counterfeit?  That's never happened to me....my benjis have always passed inspection.

    Yes (none / 0) (#42)
    by squeaky on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 09:47:26 AM EST
    Cash can be "hacked"..  more often than not the 'lack of change' is to minimize the risk of taking on a fake bill.

    Not equivalent... (none / 0) (#44)
    by kdog on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 11:31:28 AM EST
    when your debit or credit card gets stolen via hack...you pay the bill unless the bank decides to eat it.

    When somebody prints counterfeit bills (a much more difficult endeavor fwiw), it has no effect on your legit cash.  


    Well (none / 0) (#47)
    by squeaky on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 01:19:22 PM EST
    Actually, it is just PIA factor... getting a new card (number) and changing any automatic debits that you have set up, if any.

    The fair credit billing act limits consumers liability to $50 for any unauthorized charge, as long as you catch the charge and report it within 60 days..  most card companies have offer zero liability protection... so there is no charge..

    but it is true that cash is king..  no record linked to your name, and no paper trail..   that is not a small thing considering how these companies amass data about consumers and sell it for marketing and other purposes.


    Yep... (none / 0) (#48)
    by kdog on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 01:31:23 PM EST
    and the amount of fraud the credit card co's eat every year is astronomical...they have no choice, or else no one would use their stupid cards with fraud being so rampant.  I hope the Target hackers are painting their town red as we speak! lol

    My main personal objection to plastic is my objection to the bankster/finance rackets...I ain't having 'em leeching of any of my transactions, even if it does come out of the vendor's end.  I know I'm weird;)


    enjoy it while it lasts (none / 0) (#61)
    by ZtoA on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 01:04:44 AM EST
    This is the beginning of the Age Of Aquarius where everyone will be networked. Cash will be next. Barter is still untouchable...but that won't last I suspect. At least I will have a lifetime of hair cuts and so will my daughter. A good deal for my stylist, since I only get trims and not color or anything else - maybe I should go red-head!. Still, many of my artist friends barter for health care, services, and goods.

    Counterfeiting is still a real proble, kdog. (none / 0) (#66)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 07:26:28 PM EST
    I've seen counterfeit C-notes out here in the islands, as well as bogus twenties.

    "Counterfeit"... (none / 0) (#81)
    by kdog on Mon Dec 23, 2013 at 08:31:01 AM EST
    is such a strong word...I prefer "people's quantitative easing". ;)

    Thread winning comment (none / 0) (#86)
    by ragebot on Mon Dec 23, 2013 at 12:02:14 PM EST
    gotta love it

    Why there's still reason (none / 0) (#40)
    by jbindc on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 09:43:16 AM EST
    Good stuff jb... (none / 0) (#46)
    by kdog on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 12:00:27 PM EST
    needless to say #23 is my personal fave.

    O Canada! (none / 0) (#43)
    by squeaky on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 10:11:19 AM EST
    Great news for Canadian sex workers:

    The Supreme Court of Canada has unanimously struck down the nation's anti-prostitution laws.

    The high court deemed laws prohibiting brothels, communicating in public with clients and living on the profits of prostitution to be too sweeping.

    The ruling follows a court challenge filed by women who participated in the sex trade.

    The justices' decision gives the Canadian government one year to craft new legislation.

    All nine of the court's judges ruled in favour of striking the laws down, finding they were "grossly disproportionate".

    How civilized... (none / 0) (#45)
    by kdog on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 11:36:34 AM EST
    it's been a good week for the judiciary...Judge Leon, New Mexico Supreme Court, and now this from our neighbors to the north.

    and also this week, a federal judge in Utah (none / 0) (#60)
    by Peter G on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 10:52:56 PM EST
    has today struck down the state constitution's DOMA provision, thus legalizing same sex marriage in the Beehive State.

    Oh, no! (none / 0) (#49)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 01:54:29 PM EST
    Blame Canada! Blame Canada!

    (Yeah, I know it's a cheap segue to a silly song, but somebody has to speak out on behalf of Concerned Mothers Against Everything That's Fun When You're Young.)


    Fun? (none / 0) (#51)
    by squeaky on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 03:13:21 PM EST
    but somebody has to speak out on behalf of Concerned Mothers Against Everything That's Fun When You're Young.

    OK, I guess you are thinking of this as a win for consumers of sex services. While that may be something for you to celebrate, it is minor compared to the win for exploited laborers who had no legal protection against violence in the workplace and who were branded criminals for practicing their trade.

     The decision was a result of a legal challenge brought by three sex workers who argued that the laws endangered their health and forced them into unsafe working conditions.  It is a victory for women and sex workers everywhere who have been campaigning for decriminalisation of grounds of health and safety.

    Ontario Judge Susan Himel concluded that the laws violated the constitution which guarantees "the rights to life, liberty and safety'.  She said: "I find that the danger faced by prostitutes greatly outweighs any harm which may be faced by the public," . . . ."These laws, individually and together, force prostitutes to choose between their liberty interest and their right to security of the person as protected under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms."

    Celebrating after the case the three women who brought the case commented: "Sex workers can now pick up the phone and call the police to report a client who has mistreated them . . . the ruling would allow sex workers to set up unions, have health and safety standards, hire bodyguards, and pay income tax."



    No, I'm thinking that people need to ... (none / 0) (#56)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 07:08:41 PM EST
    ... lighten up and laugh a little. I swear, TL has been as fun as a morgue lately.

    For the record, I agree with the Canadian high court's decision, and have been a longtime proponent of legalizing prostitution. That very fact that it operates in the shadows and underground leaves those persons dependent upon it for their livelihood subject to all sorts of abuse and danger. For five years, I worked for the state senator representing Waikiki, and prostitution was and is a big issue in that small but populous community.

    They don't call it the world's oldest profession for nothing. We're never going to get rid of it. Prostitution was legal in Honolulu prior to 1946. By decriminalizing it and bringing it out into the open again, we can take some very realistic steps necessary to prevent the wanton exploitation of children who should not be used anywhere around this sort of profession in the first place, as well as protect those adults who ply their trade and those who seek its services. Further, we can do so without judgment or lectures.

    That said, Merry Christmas. And like I told MY, don't sweat the small stuff.



    Glad to Hear (none / 0) (#59)
    by squeaky on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 10:27:10 PM EST
    There are often two sides to every coin.. and sometimes even more..

    US Economy (none / 0) (#58)
    by Politalkix on Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 09:24:19 PM EST


    It is hitting a growth stride!

    I like LED (none / 0) (#62)
    by Mikado Cat on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 02:43:11 AM EST
    CFL seems a bit dead, it NEVER worked well for me at our home, poor life, many times the electronics failed before the bulb, fixture issues, and end of life disposal concerned me.

    LEDs I think have a bright future, but I think we are a couple years away from long term reliable drive electronics. The push now is light bulb replacement, but LEDs really need some fresh thinking as there is no real need in most cases to ever replace them, certainly not routinely.

    Future I see is homes built with low voltage lines for lighting, 5v is plenty for most types of LED.

    Color isn't completely what it should be yet, but improving.

    US economy only game in town (none / 0) (#63)
    by Politalkix on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 09:07:28 AM EST
    America jumps the shark. (none / 0) (#64)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 07:17:16 PM EST
    In a new HuffPost/YouGov poll, only 36% of Americans believe that information they get from scientists is accurate and reliable, and 78% think that information reported in scientific studies is influenced by political ideology.

    Score one for the wingnuts (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by Yman on Sun Dec 22, 2013 at 09:04:39 AM EST
    If the science and data doesn't back up their positions, they simply sow enough doubt by claiming the data/studies are politically motivated.

    Sad that so many people buy into it.


    The war on poverty-then and now (none / 0) (#68)
    by Politalkix on Sat Dec 21, 2013 at 11:55:20 PM EST
    Secular activists getting jailed (none / 0) (#70)
    by Politalkix on Sun Dec 22, 2013 at 10:12:31 AM EST
    in Egypt. link

    More (none / 0) (#71)
    by Politalkix on Sun Dec 22, 2013 at 10:22:56 AM EST
    Rachael Maddow loves big oil (none / 0) (#72)
    by Slado on Sun Dec 22, 2013 at 11:31:50 AM EST
    Yeah ... she "loves big oil" ... (none / 0) (#74)
    by Yman on Sun Dec 22, 2013 at 12:14:18 PM EST
    ... because MSNBC takes ads from Exxon.



    Just seems hypocritical (none / 0) (#78)
    by Slado on Mon Dec 23, 2013 at 03:59:40 AM EST
    It's not just an add.  The whole show is brought to you by Exxon.

    I guess Rachael is just a wind up doll and has no control over her show.


    That's what ads are (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by Yman on Mon Dec 23, 2013 at 06:34:04 AM EST
    BTW - You think Maddow controls who is permitted to buy ads that run during her timeslot?  Has Maddow suddenly stopped being critical of Exxon/oil companies?

    I guess you have no idea how television works.


    You are funny (none / 0) (#89)
    by Slado on Mon Dec 23, 2013 at 05:18:38 PM EST
    So she complains about Exxon but her entire show is brought to you by Exxon?

    We'll see if she keeps it up by the way.   Maybe she'll go after Shell now to keep her journalistic integrity.


    You should put a dictionary ... (none / 0) (#91)
    by Yman on Mon Dec 23, 2013 at 06:02:52 PM EST
    ... on your Christmas list.  That way, you could look up the definition of a few words that have you confused.  For example - "loves" - as in "she loves big oil", because the company she works for accepted ad buys from Exxon.

    Or, "hypocritical" - not because she told people not to work for a company that takes money from an oil company (she didn't).  Not because you have the slightest bit of evidence she has any control over who advertises during her show (you don't).  But because MSNBC is accepting ad buys from Exxon - a company that Maddow has criticized numerous times.

    Or, "journalistic integrity" - which in your mind means she will have to criticize a different oil company than the one that bought ads on her show.  Not to mention from someone citing the MRC.

    Now that's funny ...

    BTW - Not that it matters, but your link cites a single Exxon commercial that aired after a message saying "The Rachel Maddow show is brought to you by ExxonMobil".  So either: 1) they played that same commercial during each 30-second time slot for the entire hour, 2) MRC mysteriously decided to discuss only one commercial and forgot all of Exxon's other commercials on her show, or 3) your claim:

    It's not just an add.  The whole show is brought to you by Exxon.

    ... is as silly as the rest of your claims.


    How the GOP (none / 0) (#76)
    by Politalkix on Sun Dec 22, 2013 at 08:40:43 PM EST
    became what they are by going "duck hunting where the ducks were"....


    Why Obamacare will kill people (none / 0) (#79)
    by Slado on Mon Dec 23, 2013 at 04:16:27 AM EST
    Can't keep your doctor

    I can speak to this personally.  I am only alive because my doctors know me after 16 years of battling my disease.   I am lucky I don't have to change.

    Many many others will not be so lucky despite the promises of the people who sold this bill.

    Wow "kill".. (none / 0) (#83)
    by jondee on Mon Dec 23, 2013 at 10:30:44 AM EST
    how many people would be "killed" by the every-man-for-himself non-alternative envisioned by the libertarian right?

    Well, I guess people who can't afford insurence don't deserve to live anyway.


    Because of this law (none / 0) (#90)
    by Slado on Mon Dec 23, 2013 at 05:23:26 PM EST
    People will loose access to their doctors and to hospitals that are the reason they are alive.

    One can choose to ignore this reality and keep the talking points going or one can point out the real world consequences and repeal this awful law so we can start over and get people insurance without ruining the healthcare of millions of Americans.

    The stories aren't going to stop.   This law is so bad it will just keep getting worse and eventually collapse on itself.


    AN AXE LENGTH AWAY, vol. 225 (none / 0) (#84)
    by Dadler on Mon Dec 23, 2013 at 11:08:50 AM EST