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    Gas prices falling. (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by Angel on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 12:22:35 PM EST
    Where's jimakaPPJ?  

    I wonder if we'll ever see... (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by kdog on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 12:34:54 PM EST
    it go below 3 bucks again..but 3.39 certainly beats 3.89.

    Heating oil, otoh...forget what it was per gallon but it was 7 hundo to fill 'er up.  Ouch.  Hope we make it till Christmas on that 7 hundo...I shoulda trained the dog to bark (or even bite) if somebody f8cks with the thermostat.  62 degrees, part of the new normal.

    But enough b*tching about 1st world problems...the poor Phillipines is some instant perspective.  Sounds absolutely horrible over there, those poor people.

    Parent

    Saw $2.85 on the Way Inot Work Today (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 01:25:39 PM EST
    62 Degrees ?  Even my thermostat nazi father let us go to 65, 62 is insane.  He did it so we would prefer the wood furnace, whcih doesn't have a temp control.  Sometimes in the winter me and brother would jam so much wood in there we'd have to crack a window because it was too hot.

    But wood ain't free and there is nothing like spiting a couple cords of wood in January in Wisonsin to replenish the supply.

    But for us Texans, the $300+/mth savings we get by shutting down the AC in the winter and using the natural gas is awesome.  don't think I have every had a gas bill over $40, but my electric hits mid $450s at least one month a year.  But right now neither is needed, perfect weather.

    Parent

    2.85, 2.77, 2.25... (none / 0) (#18)
    by kdog on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 01:46:30 PM EST
    ya even gotta pay for being in a cultural mecca at the gas pump in NY...there's no escape.

    What do you guys pay for a piece of London Broil?  It's hard to find a decent piece for under 9 dollars lately, even on half-rotten "managers special".

    Parent

    Regarless of the Rumors... (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 02:24:40 PM EST
    ...Texas has terrible meat.  Maybe it's because I grew up on a farm in Wisconsin, but when I got here and went to a nice steak joint, I was shocked at the prices and quality of meat.

    I absolutely hate Walmart, but they do have the best steaks in town(fresh and midwestern), followed by whole Foods, but they are proud of their meat, especially the aged stuff.

    I once ordered prime rib here and the waitress specifically asked me if I knew what I was getting.  Back in Wisconsin, going out for prime rib was a real treat, one of the most delicious pieces of meat IMO.  What I got here was fatty beyond belief, so bad I couldn't eat it and the GD waitress said something about asking me before hand.  I have not had prime rib in a decade.

    I think it's cause the cattle here are left to graze on the what I would call wild brush grasses whereas the beef from the mid west is left to graze on green grasses stuff but feed corn as well.

    That being said, GD if Texans and the cajuns to the east can't take a crappy cut of meat like skirt steak and turn into something as delicious as fajitas, or a barbequed brisket.  Its amazing.  

    The Germans back home have two spices, salt and pepper, if that doesn't cut it, start adding cheese and/or butter to taste.  Which is fine if you hate your arteries, but here, they know how to work meat and get the more flavor from dull meat than back home with a good cut of meat.

    I don't buy meat since the gf swore it off a couple years back so no idea what it costs.

    Parent

    Ok, now that is funny! (5.00 / 2) (#53)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 03:09:48 PM EST
    The Germans back home have two spices, salt and pepper, if that doesn't cut it, start adding cheese and/or butter to taste.  Which is fine if you hate your arteries


    Parent
    In All of Houston... (none / 0) (#61)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 03:55:55 PM EST
    ...there is one German restaurant.  To put that in perspective, there are 3 Ethiopian restaurants in Houston.  Yeah, the country that is notorious for its starving population sports three times the number of restaurants of one of the most immigrated populations.

    It's the utilitarian cuisine.

    Parent

    My dad (none / 0) (#83)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 05:29:28 PM EST
    said the same thing when he went to Texas. He said the beef was just tough and awful and he would try to skip eating it in Texas. I was kind of shocked because of Texas' reputation with cattle ranches and everything.

    Parent
    Iowa corn fed beef is the best (none / 0) (#90)
    by jbindc on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 05:55:13 PM EST
    Ah, but you never (5.00 / 1) (#183)
    by Zorba on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 03:29:44 PM EST
    tried our beef that we raised up here, jb!   Zorba beef!   No hormones, no antibiotics, free range, fed on our own grass and hay with no chemicals applied, and grain finished with no additives, the grain bought from a trusted, local Mennonite supplier.
    ;-)

    Parent
    I can be there by dinner time. :) (5.00 / 3) (#186)
    by jbindc on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 03:34:03 PM EST
    LOL! (5.00 / 3) (#195)
    by Zorba on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 04:56:20 PM EST
    Unfortunately, we have retired from beef production because we are simply getting too old now.  We only raise and sell our hay to others who are feeding their own beef cattle.
    But I must say that our beef was pretty d@mned good, when we were in the beef-raising mode.  And we had a deal with a great butcher shop- they knew how to cut, age, and package our beef.
    I still miss it.
    OTOH, I am making venison Stroganoff tonight.  The venison taken from our place is also very good (it should be, having been fed on our crops and the tender young shoots and bark in our woods).     ;-)

    Parent
    Not sure where you are eating (none / 0) (#91)
    by ragebot on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 05:55:33 PM EST
    Several years ago I had relatives living in Paris, that's Paris, TX, and never had a real problem finding good steak.  I would usually fly into Dallas and always stopped on the drive for a steak.  My brother still lives in Katy and I have had great steak in many places in and around Houston.

    Of course nothing comes close to the fresh seafood I get in the Florida Keys.

    Parent

    Have never been to Texas (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by shoephone on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 11:09:55 PM EST
    but the best beef I ever ate was in the other Paris, the beautiful city of lights. And I don't hardly even like beef. Without a doubt, the best duck I ever had was in France as well, in a little restaurant in Toulouse, by the train depot, where the owner and waiter looked just like Joel Gray. I thought maybe Sally Bowles was going to emerge singing and dancing by the time dessert arrived.

    Parent
    I have No Doubt... (none / 0) (#152)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 12:24:18 PM EST
    ...but next time ask where the beef if from, it ain't Texas.  Anyone can go to Chris Ruth anywhere in the world and get a damn good chunk of meat, but that doesn't mean it's local.  

    And that $40 dollar steak at CR, I can get the same back home in Wisconsin for about $15.  Ditto for the cheese, the cattle here produce what I would call a really nasty and very greasy tasting cheese, where as back home, it's delicious.

    I wrongly assumed when I moved here that the reason they have so many cattle in Texas is because they make good eating.  That is simply not true.  It's about making use of the crappy land that is nearly endless with animals that might not taste very good, but are still useful for the 10,000 things produced using cattle.

    If seafood isn't caught the same day, most people can tell the difference, not true of beef.  Never saw a sign for steaks, 'freshly slaughtered today'.  Fresh seafood back home is almost unheard of, there is fresh local fish, but nothing from the actual sea unless you go to a seriously high end restaurant, which didn't exist where I grew up.

    Whole foods ages their meat in glass coolers so you can look in and see it, it's disgusting and why it's so pricey, they have to cut off all the bad meat to get to the good stuff, so you not only pay for what you get, but all the waste it took to get to that point.

    Parent

    Have to disagree with you on this. (5.00 / 1) (#156)
    by vml68 on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 12:49:20 PM EST
    it's disgusting

    Dry aged beef is very tasty.
    Also, they don't really have to cut of a lot of meat. It is pricey because of the time and equipment it takes to dry age the meat. And also because the meat loses a lot of water so you get "more meat" for the same weight as you would wet-aged meat.


    Parent

    Bad Word Choice (none / 0) (#170)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 02:40:24 PM EST
    It's disgusting to look at and goes against everything we were ever taught about meat safety.  

    But actual taste is second to none.  I will put aged meat up against Kobe beef any day of the week.

    They used to dry age meat before refrigeration, which is insane.  How many people got really sick before they perfected that art.

    Parent

    Before refrigeration, meat was aged in the cooler (5.00 / 1) (#192)
    by vml68 on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 04:13:16 PM EST
    months and/or salted, smoked, turned into jerky, etc., for preservation.
    I believe in this country all the extra meat safety is because of the way the animals are raised/factory farmed. Also,everything here tends to be so sterile compared to other countries that IMO people tend to have weaker immune systems.

    In most third world countries, you will see meat hanging in butcher shops with flies buzzing around. Some places have open gutters nearby and yet people there don't seem to get sick from eating it.

    Parent

    My College Roomate... (5.00 / 3) (#197)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 05:08:45 PM EST
    ...had a freezer of meat so it's all he ate.  I am not exaggerating when I say he would come home on Friday drunk around noon(3rd shifter) with his boys, cook up a ridiculous amount of meat and just leave it out until he was gone.  Which always lasted through Sunday, but sometimes into he week.

    He didn't cover it or put it in the fridge, it just sat on the counter slowly disappearing.  It was always the big joke, come over and watch the man with the iron guts eat 3 day old meat during the the Packer game.

    My point, I think kids and adults are getting all these allergies and getting sick at every little thing because of our over sterilization of everything.  Like the flu, a little exposure probably does more good than bad.

    My roommate, like a cavemen, just grew up with no regards to meat safety and I think that forced his body to develop defense that most of our bodies haven't developed.  None of us would last day in 15th century London without getting deathly ill.  But my roommate would have been in 7th heaven.  I love the guy to death, but he was a damn dirty fool

    Just my theory.

    Parent

    A slight correction, Scott (5.00 / 2) (#185)
    by Zorba on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 03:32:12 PM EST
    It's "Ruth's Chris," not Chris Ruth.     ;-)

    Parent
    A man next to me asked my destination. He is (none / 0) (#8)
    by oculus on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 01:23:36 PM EST
    headed to the Phillipines where his family is safe. He sd. there was an earthquake, then smaller tycoon followed by huge tycoon.

    Parent
    A Natural Disaster Trifecta... (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by kdog on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 01:33:41 PM EST
    Mother Nature, the giver of all life, yet sometimes so cruel.  Count thy blessings, always, cuz ya never know.

    Parent
    I forwarded to my FL bro. the recent (none / 0) (#20)
    by oculus on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 01:54:06 PM EST
    NYT article re rising seawater and the Keys and Everglades. Here is part of his response:

    The sense of urgency in Tallahassee is nowhere in evidence. It's all Bible
    belt, and Rick Scott is a Tea Bagger. One legislator is quoted as saying,
    "God destroyed the world once with water, and he promised he wouldn't do it
    again."


    Parent
    They should have Christian weathermen (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by jondee on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 02:37:41 PM EST
    down there: "It'll be unseasonably cold with heavy precipitation all next week -- no thanks to all the sodomites and witches out there.."

    Parent
    It was snowing this morning (none / 0) (#123)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 09:20:54 PM EST
    The earliest snow anyone can remember is some Thanksgiving flurries.....

    Where oh where is my man made global gone?

    Oh where has it gone??

    lol... until I get my heating bill.

    Parent

    If you were looking for climate change (5.00 / 2) (#124)
    by nycstray on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 09:38:13 PM EST
    seems to me you should have noticed it when you looked at your earliest snowfall since you can remember . . .

    Parent
    Tea Party science.. (5.00 / 2) (#131)
    by jondee on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 07:13:41 AM EST
    like Michelle Bachman asking why we can't see animals evolving before our eyes..

    Parent
    Another Notorious G.O.D. (none / 0) (#23)
    by kdog on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 02:08:59 PM EST
    saying goes "God helps those who help themselves".  I guess that one is not convenient regarding rising sea levels, but otoh the ice caps are probably too far gone as it is, the damage is done, man-made CO-Duece or not.  

    At least I got the Catskills right here, South Fla residents have a longer pilgrimage to make to dry land in 10, 50, 100 years.

    Parent

    Usually, those huge tycoons (5.00 / 8) (#50)
    by Peter G on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 03:00:15 PM EST
    only strike on Wall Street.

    Parent
    That's absolutely (none / 0) (#64)
    by sj on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 04:03:20 PM EST
    the best response yet :)

    Parent
    "Tycoon" ..... :-) (none / 0) (#19)
    by vml68 on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 01:53:02 PM EST
    That would be Typhoon, Oc!

    Parent
    Oops. Ms. Malaprop. . (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by oculus on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 01:59:24 PM EST
    Tycoons... (5.00 / 2) (#24)
    by kdog on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 02:22:22 PM EST
    are of the man-made variety of unnatural disasters;)

    Parent
    Kdog, you owe me money! (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by vml68 on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 02:31:33 PM EST
    I made a bet with myself that you would not be able to resist making a comment about tycoons being disasters......:-)!

    Parent
    I am nothing... (5.00 / 3) (#44)
    by kdog on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 02:52:03 PM EST
    if not a broken record.  Whats the damage? ;)

    Parent
    That thought occurred to me also. (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by MO Blue on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 02:54:02 PM EST
    Great minds and all that. ;o)

    Parent
    Shall we assume (none / 0) (#36)
    by sj on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 02:38:08 PM EST
    that autocorrect changed "typhoon" to "tycoon"? I haven't heard of any tycoons stepping up to the plate.

    Parent
    Autocorrect... (5.00 / 3) (#56)
    by kdog on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 03:32:29 PM EST
    is just like assume...makes an arse out of you and me.

    No self-respecting writer, even of worthless internet comments, should be using that sh*t.  Shutdown your personal skynets people before they become completely self-aware!  You've been warned! ;)

    Parent

    Yep (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by MO Blue on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 12:35:09 PM EST
    I filled up at $2.77 yesterday. Haven't been out yet today but if the things happen as usual, it will probably dropped to $2.50 today or tomorrow. ;o) Of course, if I had decided not to take advantage of the $2.77 price it would have went up $.20 or $.30 today.

    Parent
    $2.77? Wow, you've got us beat (none / 0) (#6)
    by shoephone on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 01:02:28 PM EST
    here in Seattle. I just paid $3.07 yesterday and thought I'd hit the jackpot (it's been going down an average of 2 c. each day of the last two weeks). It will be a big deal if it gets below $3.00.

    Parent
    I shop Safeway (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 01:25:24 PM EST
    and got a $1.00 cash discount from grocery purchases.  $2.25, thank you very much, in Issaquah.

    Parent
    That is the lowest I remember (none / 0) (#7)
    by MO Blue on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 01:11:00 PM EST
    it being for several years. IIRC it was $2.95 - $2.99 during the summer of last year but don't recall it being lower than that for quite a while. Of course, keep in mind that I'm a senior citizen and might not remember. ;o)

    Right this minute MO and a few other areas in the Midwest have lower gas prices than other states. If our prices were $2.77 yesterday, some of the cities out in the boonies might be $.10 - $.15 lower still. From what I've read, those lower prices might disappear if that stupid pipeline is approved. Just one more reason why I am against it.

    Parent

    According to... (none / 0) (#33)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 02:32:54 PM EST
    ...Gas Buddy, the lowest price in Houston is $2.75 for regular.

    I actually use that program from time to time on my phone.  When I am in areas unfamiliar I check to make sure I am not getting raked.  A couple of times it's save me a little cash.  I don't need the lowest, just don't want to pay the highest.

    Parent

    It's raining at the Seattle airport. (none / 0) (#12)
    by oculus on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 01:26:02 PM EST
    What a surprise!  Funny my friends never mention that on Facebook.

    Parent
    November is the rainiest month here (none / 0) (#39)
    by shoephone on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 02:43:47 PM EST
    But, 26 miles north of the airport, in my neck of the forest, it's 54 degrees and partly sunny -- crazy!

    Parent
    He's probably too busy partying ... (5.00 / 2) (#9)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 01:25:05 PM EST
    ... like it's 1959.

    Parent
    Or Trying to Figure Out... (5.00 / 2) (#14)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 01:29:45 PM EST
    ...how to back out of the 10,000 posts about how Obama is responsible for the price of gas and how the price of gas drives the economy, now that it's favoring Obama.  

    He'll be back when Fox News tells him what to think about the situation.

    Parent

    That's exactly what I'm waiting for... (none / 0) (#17)
    by Angel on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 01:43:07 PM EST
    the contortions he'll be going through trying to explain how it's all bad and it's all Obama's fault.  

    Parent
    I wouldn't hold my breath. (none / 0) (#26)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 02:24:28 PM EST
    Ideologues like that are generally incapable of personal introspection, and whenever they're confronted with their own political conundrums they tend to become verbally abusive. So no doubt, the subject will be conveniently ignored until the next time fuel prices rise markedly.

    In the meantime, I'd look for him instead to continue flogging the "Obama lied about Obamacare" meme that's currently all the right-wing rage -- both literally and figuratively -- on Fox News and the AM squawk radio airwaves.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    They're flogging it becasue it's true (none / 0) (#30)
    by Slado on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 02:27:27 PM EST
    Just ask this democrat....oh and this one too.

    Are these Dems "Flogging" it?


    Parent

    We F*cken Get It... (5.00 / 2) (#35)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 02:37:50 PM EST
    ...but stop being an assh0le and littering every unrelated post with your BS.  

    Quit being a GD troll.

    Parent

    Well, we recognize the problems here, and ... (5.00 / 3) (#54)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 03:16:13 PM EST
    Slado: "They're flogging it because it's true."

    ... are working to fix them. Liberal and progressive Democrats quite obviously have some differences of opinion regarding what is to be done, and even a cursory read of these threads here shows that we're not at all shy about airing them out in public.

    Meanwhile, because you are steadfastly determined to remain resolutely oblivious to both the results of the 2012 election and the profound demographic shifts taking place throughout the country, you and your right-wing friends in the Merry Ol' Land of Oz have continued to offer no practical or even reality-based alternatives to any problem of national note and / or importance.

    Rather, you simply remain content to continue skywriting "Surrender, Dorothy!" across the heavens, as though that somehow demonstrates your firm grasp of public policy.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Now now now... (none / 0) (#29)
    by kdog on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 02:25:25 PM EST
    I'm sure my old pal Jim is just editing his comment of praise for the president for lowering gas prices.

    Or drafting a comment about Obama robbing Exxon to pay Aetna;)

    Parent

    Gas prices are down because (none / 0) (#32)
    by Slado on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 02:32:19 PM EST
    All sorts of reasons why they're falling.

    Gas prices are just a fun way for partisan hacks to take shots at each other.

    The funny thing about hypocrisy is it cuts both ways.

    I guess we can calm down about the need for alternative fuels now since gas prices are dropping and US production is up?

    Parent

    Sorry, but our friend from Tennessee (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by shoephone on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 02:48:48 PM EST
    is the only one consistently flogging that dead horse regarding gas prices.

    Parent
    Slado... (5.00 / 3) (#47)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 02:54:29 PM EST
    ...I totally agree, the joke is that forever Jim has been blaming Obama for high gas prices and insisting that gas prices are a major indicator of the overall economy.

    No hypocrisy here because we all know that Obama has very little to do with prices and gas simply are not an accurate economic indicator, sans Jim of course.

    I would estimate that Jim has stated the above as fact no less than 200 times since Obama took office here at TL.

    Parent

    Fair enough (none / 0) (#60)
    by Slado on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 03:50:33 PM EST
    He's wrong.

    While I think Obama's energy policy is a environmentalists wet dream blaming him for the current price of oil is a little silly.

    Plenty to criticize him for.  Namely his funding of bad alternative energy companies with taxpayer money.

    What a waste.

    Parent

    Republican Non-sense (none / 0) (#66)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 04:12:04 PM EST
    While I think Obama's energy policy is a environmentalists wet dream blaming him for the current price of oil is a little silly.

    You obviously haven't been keeping track, but we are about to become the worlds largest oil producer in the world and energy independent.

    That doesn't get accomplished with a president who is a 'environmentalists wet dream'.

    This is going to happen before he leaves office.  How anyone can complain about his energy policy with gas being at record lows and and we nearing energy independence only proves some people will never be happy.

    The U.S. will surpass Russia and Saudi Arabia as the world's top oil producer by 2015, and be close to energy self-sufficiency in the next two decades, amid booming output from shale formations, the IEA said.

    LINK

    Parent
    Obama can take zero credit for this (none / 0) (#75)
    by Slado on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 05:07:00 PM EST
    He is opposing the pipeline, restricting drilling rights etc, writing regulations and pushing green energy with taxpayer dollars.

    Capitalism and technology are simply finding away to overcome government interference.

    Thankfully he can't do as much as he'd like to stop progress.

    Parent

    Well Thank God... (none / 0) (#145)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 11:34:30 AM EST
    ...capitalism can over-come the Fed in regards to drilling.

    Funny how that works, when prices were high you clowns were falling over yourselves to blame Obama, not that they are coming down it's 'Capitalism and technology are simply finding away to overcome government interference.'

    So Obama owns the tattered economy that the R's drove off a cliff, no problem, but now that economy is getting back to pre-GWB days all of a sudden it's capitalism that gets a pat on the back.  Or is gas and oil not part of the economy.

    You are the living definition of a broken record.  Still waiting on your criticism of the R party you keep stating you left.  Why ?

    Could be, after all you didn't state Cheney's energy policy deserves all the credit, I guess that is something.

    Parent

    More oil drilling as "progress" (none / 0) (#146)
    by MKS on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 11:45:17 AM EST
    More old technology as progress....

    Doesn't sound right.

    Parent

    I'm not sure (none / 0) (#41)
    by sj on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 02:47:22 PM EST
    but you might be missing the point.
    Gas prices are just a fun way for partisan hacks to take shots at each other.
    Gas prices are a particular bugaboo of jimakaPPJ. And he will rend his shirt and gnash his teeth about how Obama is responsible for gas prices. But only when they go up, of course.

    When gas prices drop he won't go near a gas price thread. He's been doing this for years :)

    Just in case you didn't understand the levity.

    Parent

    Good reason not to approve the pipeline (none / 0) (#49)
    by MO Blue on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 02:58:14 PM EST
    which will only help export gas out of the country and raise prices in the Midwest.

    Parent
    Actually no (none / 0) (#58)
    by Slado on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 03:49:14 PM EST
    The pipeline should keep oil here on our continent.

    The oil is going to be drilled/dug up and someone is going to use it.

    Why send it all the way to China when we can keep it here?

    Makes no sense.

    Parent

    It should keep it here... (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by unitron on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 10:55:36 PM EST
    ...but there's a reason that pipeline is on the drawing boards as going all the way down to a warm water port on the Gulf of Mexico where it's handy for getting to either Europe or, via the enlarged Panama Canal, Asia, and that reason ain't to make gas cheaper in Kansas City.

    Parent
    The pipeline may not be safe (5.00 / 3) (#163)
    by MKS on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 01:54:07 PM EST
    as all piplelines leak; and, further, the oil or tar sands oil is really nasty stuff from an environmental perspective.

    One area where Libertarianism really fails is the Environment....  

    Parent

    Why would it make sense? (none / 0) (#71)
    by MO Blue on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 04:44:08 PM EST
    Because it would increase their bottom line at the cost of higher fuel price here in the U.S. especially in the Midwest.

    So, would TransCanada support US legislation requiring Canadian oil and products refined from it, such as diesel, to be sold only in the United States, asked Rep. Ed Markey (D) of Massachusetts, "so that this country realizes all of the energy security benefits your company and others have promised?"

    "No, I can't do that," Mr. Pourbaix said.
    ...
    "Rather than providing the US with more Canadian oil, Keystone XL will simply shift oil from the Midwest to the Gulf Coast, where much of it can be exported to international buyers - decreasing US energy supply and increasing the cost of oil in the American Midwest," concludes a new study by the Natural Resources Defense Council, a New York-based environmental advocacy non-profit group, citing numerous TransCanada studies and the transcripts of Canadian federal hearings.
    ...
    US farmers who spent $12.4 billion on fuel in 2009 could see those costs rise to $15 billion or higher if the pipeline goes through, he projects. At least $500 million of the added cost "would come from the Canadian market manipulation," he wrote.

    "Millions of Americans will spend 10 to 20 cents more per gallon for gasoline and diesel fuel as tribute to our `friendly' neighbors to the north," the highly respected Dr. Verleger wrote. "The Keystone XL pipeline will move production from Canadian oil sands to a deepwater port from where it can be exported."

    But that is not merely Verleger's opinion. It's based on findings of the economic consultants hired by TransCanada - contained in their analyses of the pipeline's impact on Canadian oil producers and in official testimony before Canada's National Energy Board.

    "Existing markets for Canadian heavy crude, principally [the US Midwest], are currently oversupplied, resulting in price discounting for Canadian heavy crude oil," concludes a 2009 analysis on behalf of TransCanada by Purvin & Gertz, Inc., an oil economics firm based in Houston. "Access to the [US Gulf Coast] via the Keystone XL Pipeline is expected to strengthen Canadian crude oil pricing in [the Midwest market] by removing this oversupply. This is expected to increase the price of heavy crude to the equivalent cost of imported crude."

    Gulf link to global markets
    As a result of those increases in the price of heavy crude in the Midwest and sales of higher-margin refined products shipped out from Gulf Coast refineries to other markets, Canadian oil producers could be expected to reap $2 billion to $3.9 billion more each year, the analysis says.



    Parent
    That works for me. I live in the Midwest. (none / 0) (#128)
    by Mr Natural on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 11:18:10 PM EST
    I've been telling people the same thing for years.  When the last short leg of the Keystone completes, as it will, our gas prices go up.

    Weird thing is that the Midwest is overflowing with O'Haters robotically spewing pro-pipeline agitprop, without a clue that their gas price goes up the minute the pipeline completes.

    Hell, most of these Bozos couldn't locate the existing pipeline on a map, much less locate the sections left to complete.

    A Keystone Pipeline Primer.



    Parent

    Sorry, but I have been busy looking (none / 0) (#122)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 09:17:41 PM EST
    for the $1.81 per gallon prices that existed when Obama of The Lost Insurance Policies was sworn in.

    lol

    Parent

    I want to see (5.00 / 2) (#129)
    by Edger on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 04:57:01 AM EST
    the $6 dollars a week I used to fill my tank once a week for, when I bought my first car, only 2 years old and in immaculate condition, for only $850.00.

    Why, when I was your age my momma would send me down to the store with $1 and I would come back with 5 bags of potatoes, 2 loaves of bread, 3 bottles of milk, a box of tea, and 6 eggs.

    You can't do that these days.

    Too many farkin' security cameras.

    Parent

    Condolences to his family (5.00 / 3) (#2)
    by MO Blue on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 12:29:47 PM EST
    OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) -- The son of U.S. Sen. Jim Inhofe was killed in a weekend plane crash in northeast Oklahoma, the U.S. Secretary of Defense confirmed.

    Dr. Perry Inhofe, a 52-year-old orthopedic surgeon, died when the small plane he was piloting crashed Sunday near Owasso, a Tulsa suburb. link

    No matter who you are it must be hard to lose a child at any age.

    How sad. (5.00 / 3) (#22)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 02:08:18 PM EST
    I certainly have my differences with Sen. Inhofe, but anyone with compassion and empathy wouldn't wish this sort of personal calamity on their worst personal enemy.

    I think most of us here are at an age in which we at least know others who have had a child pre-decease them. I had a brother who succumbed from complications of cystic fibrosis at age 15. My mother probably hasn't visited his gravesite in East L.A. in well over a decade, but she keeps his framed 8th grade school portrait in a prominent place on her dresser, his bright blue eyes and toothy grin looking just as vibrant and real today as they did 40 years ago, when that photo was first taken.

    While most parents who experience that unfortunate loss do eventually move on with their lives, it's also pretty apparent that it's something that they'll never really "get over," regardless of the passage of time. Outliving your own child is not supposed to be part of the natural order of things, no matter how hard one tries to rationalize the event ex post facto.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Former Fed employee... (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by kdog on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 01:29:21 PM EST
    tells us what we already Know...Quantitative Easing is a scam.  Boon to Wall St., whole lotta d*ck for Main St.  But he's sorry! lol

    I say again, going by 1.32 trillion dollar figure as the grand total cost of this scam, we could have just given every man, woman, and child in the country about 5 grand cash, and it would have done world's more good as an economic stimulus, not to mention taken the edge off a lotta people's daily economic woes.  We been had again y'all.

    Common sense tells us all this (none / 0) (#25)
    by Slado on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 02:23:31 PM EST
    Pumping money into the economy only helps those already doing well in the economy.

    The problems with the economy structurally still remain and for us libertarians have only gotten worse.

    Too much regulation, too much crony capitalism and way, way, way too much government spending.

    Now you throw on top this whole Obamacare debacle and well, they'll probably just keep pumping.

    This has propped up what is still a terrible economy and Obama is too clueless to know it.

    Parent

    Lets not pretend this economy... (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by kdog on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 02:41:12 PM EST
    is all Obama's fault though...we all well know the tale of two economies/death of the middle class has been 30 years or so in the making, we didn't get here overnight.  Today's sh*t economy is past chickens coming home to roost, and yes Obama and a psycho congress has failed to do much of anything to reverse the trend.  Sh*t we the people are to blame too...cutting off our collective nose to save a nickel, and not always out of necessity.

    I don't know if it's a case of over-regulation so much as crony-regulation.  An NYC hot dog cart is more regulated and policed than the banking system and stock market...and the Fed ain't buying the hot dog guy's stale buns off his ledger.

    Parent

    Decline of middle class (none / 0) (#89)
    by BackFromOhio on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 05:52:08 PM EST
    individuals into poverty has escalated dramatically since 2007.  

    Parent
    Common sense (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by MKS on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 03:01:35 PM EST
    tells you to spend less when times are hard.  If a government does that, or everyone does that, then you have a severe downward spiral.....

    "Common sense" can mess up royally...

    Parent

    I diagree with Slado... (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by kdog on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 03:24:29 PM EST
    that government spending is one of the problems with the economy..the problem is how we spent it, buying garbage off bank ledgers so the banks could hoard it?  

    Would you agree with me that 5 grand cash to every man, woman, & child would have been more effective as an economic stimulus instead of QE Uno, Dos, Tres?

    Even assuming Bernanke had the best of intentions, the banks f8cked us...again. But the stock markets up so who cares, right?

    Parent

    Not the case (none / 0) (#57)
    by MKS on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 03:44:57 PM EST
    Quantitative Easing is not giving money to banks....

    It is a bond purchasing program.   The Fed is "pumping money" into the economy by buying bonds from creditors who have originally bought them from the Treasury Department, which issues them to finance the government.  The Fed buys bonds by crediting the sellers' accounts with money.  That money makes its way into the economy.

    "Money" is defined as including all demand deposits or the amounts in all the bank accounts added up (other measures include other things in their definitions of money.)  By crediting the sellers' accounts with money, "new" money is created.

    The Fed is not the problem.  Progressives should be happy with Bernanke.  Conservatives hate him because they feel his monetary policies are covering up the failures of the Obama Admin and will lead to inflation.

    The anti-Fed position is a conservative Tea Party position.  

    The Fed helped stave off disaster.....It cannot do much more to help.  

    Parent

    Now were getting very big picture (none / 0) (#62)
    by Slado on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 03:57:03 PM EST
    Obama is not totally to blame here.  He is only continuing a 100 year cycle of government growth and expanding power of the fed.

    One might ask if the Fed is so essential how did it along with government allow such a calamity to happen at all?  

    The answer is they rigged a system to go broke and acted surprised when it did.   To whose benefit?   We all know.

    Now in hindsight we can say things like the "saved" the economy, an economy they broke but who cares?

    We'll never know what would have happened if we'd really let it fall apart because we didn't.  

    I'd argue we'd be better off today then we are now if we'd let it happen or at the very least would be on our way to be better off.

    Instead we get 1-2% growth, high unemployment and more and more of our fellow citizens on welfare, foot stamps and government assistance.

    Everything is just peachy.  Thanks Ben.

    Parent

    The Fed was created (none / 0) (#69)
    by MKS on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 04:40:54 PM EST
    as a result of William Jennings Bryan and Progressives' call for more credit.

    Before the Fed, J.P. Morgan was the Federal Government's banker.    Without the Fed, all these private banks would have complete control over the entire banking system--and the finances of the Federal Government.  Talk about a concentration of power....even more so than what we have today.

    Ron Paul and his anti-Fed nonsense and insistence on what is apparently a gold-backed currency is just a flight of fancy, or unrealized nightmare, without an iota of proof or evidence to support it.

    Parent

    Is a Mortgage Backed Security... (none / 0) (#63)
    by kdog on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 03:58:09 PM EST
    a bond by your definition of bond?  Isn't that what the Fed is buying, along with treasury bonds?  If yes, why are they buying worthless paper and to what benefit?  Other than the obvious benefit to Blankfein, Dimon, etc.

    Parent
    They are bonds (none / 0) (#68)
    by MKS on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 04:35:16 PM EST
    The Fed has limited options....The foray into private bonds was to address the limitation of the tools it did have.

    The Fed has pushed the envelope but it has done the maximum it could do.  The fault lies elsewhere.  

    Parent

    MBS is garbage! (none / 0) (#137)
    by kdog on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 09:03:01 AM EST
    If the fed has the power to buy garbage by calling it a bond, they could have called the pieces of junk in all our garages "bonds" and proceeded to cut checks for 5 grand for every man, woman, and child in these United States.  20 grand for a family of four!  That's a whole lotta stimulus.

    Instead of only buying garbage off banksters, who hoard the cash for basically net zero economic stumulus.

    Like I said, a straight up f8ckin' scam.

    Parent

    MBS are debt not equity (none / 0) (#164)
    by MKS on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 01:58:50 PM EST
    Bondholders usually get paid back; they get paid back and have priority over shareholders....

    If the Fed doesn't get paid back that would be big news, but I do not think it has happened.

    Parent

    Krugman on Quantitative Easing (none / 0) (#74)
    by MKS on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 04:51:47 PM EST
    A lot of jargon but the takeaway:

    But why does he think QE, or at any rate expansion of the Fed's balance sheet, is positively harmful? I'm not sure

    The problem is the Fed is working by itself because of the deficit hawks....

    Parent

    Nonsense (none / 0) (#77)
    by Slado on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 05:15:15 PM EST
    The Fed is printing money so the government can continue to borrow along with big companies.

    The Fed is here to stay.   The anti fed stuff that Paul preaches while true is a non starter because we're never getting rid of it.

    What we can do is get the FED to stop "helping" us and let it make the rest of us take our collective medicine.   We are in this situation because we allowed the country to become drunk on debt.  Private, personal and government.

    The Fed is not allowing the economy to self correct and prolonging the addition.

    We can continue in the tepid fake growth economy which only benefits the top 1% while the rest of us see our real wealth diminished and more on the bottom become wards of the state or we can break this cycle by taking our medicine.

    People like Krugman don't even realize how much they're blind addiction to helping people is actually the reason we're in this mess.   It doesn't help the little guy it actually hurts the people they claim to want to help.

    How's this recovery been working out for the poor?  How have the poor and middle class benefited from the Fed "Saving" the economy.

    You simply can't say with a straight face that they're winning because they're not.

    Only real sustained growth driven by economic expansion can lift the poor out of poverty.

    That's not what the Fed is creating.    They are creating paper growth due to an expanded money supply and that is draining real wealth out of the middle and lower class into the mansions of the rich.

    Again, nice work Ben.

    Parent

    Your "Collective medicine" (5.00 / 1) (#134)
    by MKS on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 08:15:41 AM EST
    means Great Depression.  Been there, done that.

    As Keynes said, we are all dead in the long run.

    Parent

    You express concern for the poor, yet ... (5.00 / 1) (#161)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 01:45:14 PM EST
    Slado: "How's this recovery been working out for the poor?  How have the poor and middle class benefited from the Fed "Saving" the economy."

    ... you continue to champion the very same so-called "free market initiatives" that in the past have served to only further exacerbate the poor's plight. A market-driven economy doesn't work the way you seem to think it does.

    Yes, we have a looming long-term problem with debt, both public and private. But you're no more going to solve that problem by shredding the social safety net and imposing draconian spending cuts to longstanding social compacts such as Social Security and Medicare, than you're going to cure a hardcore heroin addict of his habit by simply locking him up and forcing him to go cold turkey, while telling him it's for his own good.

    In both instances, it's instead highly likely that you'll simply induce an severe and adverse reaction which imperils the very patient you ostensibly seek to save.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    "Their blind addiction (none / 0) (#140)
    by jondee on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 10:10:41 AM EST
    to helping people. Wow.

    You did say you were Roman Catholic, didn't you, Slado? Take it up with Jesus.

    You people make the "self correcting economy" sound like the workings of divine providence; as if it encompassed some reality completely disconnected from human agency, fallibility, delusion, or creativity. Like the multiplication table.

    Parent

    The Fed Creating Money (none / 0) (#103)
    by ragebot on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 06:33:13 PM EST
    is one thing.  But there is more to it than that.  What happens to that money.  Economists use the term money velocity to describe how money makes its way through the economy.  Currently the velocity of money is falling at an all time low.  Just because the Fed creates a lot of money does not mean it will get into the economy and make a difference.

    Parent
    True, the Fed cannot do it all (none / 0) (#112)
    by MKS on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 07:41:17 PM EST
    Good spending policies from Congress is what is needed.

    Parent
    Ex Fed guy says sorry (none / 0) (#135)
    by Slado on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 08:35:04 AM EST
    The Fed has two (5.00 / 1) (#136)
    by MKS on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 08:42:44 AM EST
    basic choices:  raise interest rates, lower interest rates.

    Low interest rates are more consistent with growth. The Fed has pushed that button as much as it can....That it doesn't pull the economy up all by itself does not mean the Fed should raise interest rates.

    You advocate a Great Depression, or "collective medicine," to address a desire to obtain Libertarian goals....Not the way to go imo.

    Parent

    Okay, so just go ahead (none / 0) (#40)
    by MKS on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 02:46:33 PM EST
    and propose cutting Social Security and Medicare, or abolishing them.

    It is what Libertarians believe...

    Parent

    And it's what Obama and a lot of Dems believe (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by shoephone on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 02:55:33 PM EST
    too. The Grand Bargain nonsense pretty much includes the entire Democratic caucus.

    Parent
    No, they don't (3.00 / 2) (#52)
    by MKS on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 03:04:53 PM EST
    There is no Grand Bargain....

    Parent
    Not yet. (none / 0) (#59)
    by shoephone on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 03:49:19 PM EST
    After all, what the hell have our grandchildren ever done for us anyway?

    Parent
    But when are they gonna tell ... (none / 0) (#154)
    by Robot Porter on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 12:39:07 PM EST
    us the whole current banking system is a scam?

    And that this scam uses financial actions of lower and middle income people to make billions for the system.  And these middle and lower income people do not share in these profits anywhere close to the degree to which they help create them.

    The current income disparity in this country is not natural.  It requires a combination of quasi-legal scamming, and out and out criminal activity, to be maintained.

    Parent

    So the only people helped (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by jondee on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 02:41:56 PM EST
    by the New Deal were people who were already doing well and that was it?

    The only thing that saves me frm complete insanity (5.00 / 2) (#65)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 04:04:26 PM EST
    The only thing that gives me any hope at all that this mess will somehow be resolved is that people are looking past the lies and finding out the truth by themselves.  The flat earthers on this issue are being left behind in the dust.

    Quinnipiac Poll

    American voters disapprove 54 - 39 percent of the job President Barack Obama is doing, his lowest approval rating in any Quinnipiac University national poll since he became president, as even women disapprove 51 - 40 percent, according to a national poll released today.

    ...

    For the first time today, American voters say 52 - 44 percent that Obama is not honest and trustworthy. His previous lowest marks on honesty were May 30, when 49 percent of voters said he was honest and 47 percent said he wasn't.

    ...

    "Any Democrat with an 11-point approval deficit among women is in trouble. And any elected official with an 8-point trust deficit is in serious trouble."

    "President Obama's job approval rating has fallen to the level of former President George W. Bush at the same period of his Presidency," Malloy said.

    American voters say 53 - 43 percent that the Obama Administration has not been competent running the government. By a similar 51 - 43 percent margin, voters say Obama is not paying enough attention to what his administration is doing.

    Obama gets a positive 52 - 42 percent approval rating for handling terrorism, with negative grades for handling other issues"

        38 - 53 percent on foreign policy;
        35 - 53 percent on immigration;
        32 - 62 percent on the federal budget;
        36 - 60 percent on health care;
        38 - 59 percent on the economy.

    On the "winners" and "losers," looks like more consider themselves losers than winners.  

    Affordable Care Act

    Only 19 percent of American voters say the quality of care they and their families receive will improve in the next year because of the Affordable Care Act (ACA), while 43 percent say it will get worse and 33 percent say ACA won't affect their health care.

    Voters oppose the ACA 55 - 39 percent, with men opposed 59 - 37 percent and women opposed 51 - 41 percent.

    And I gotta stop here because I'm quoting too much.  Go read.

    Hoping for changing.

    With those numbers, (5.00 / 4) (#104)
    by Peter G on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 06:33:51 PM EST
    how can he hope to win re-election?

    Parent
    Not his re-election that matters (none / 0) (#138)
    by jbindc on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 09:07:56 AM EST
    It's the numbers on the Democratic members of Congress that matters - and a president's popularity has a lot to do with whether they are re-elected or not.

    Obama and his supporters like to say he'll never face reelection again, so his numbers don't matter. But other Democrats -- namely red-state Sens. Mary Landrieu of Louisiana, Mark Pryor of Arkansas of North, Kay Hagan of North Carolina and Mark Begich of Alaska -- will face voters again, during next year's midterms. And a slumping president has been nothing but bad news for his party colleagues.

    Democrats lost 28 House seats and five Senate seats during the first two years of Truman's second term. In 2006, Republicans lost their majority in the House and Senate, losing 30 and six seats, respectively, under Bush's leadership. Presidential parties with a popular chief executive have managed to actually add seats at the six-year mark, like Bill Clinton in 1998.

    SNIP

    And although Obama's numbers are low, they're still far higher than the GOP's, whose unpopularity reached historic lows after the shutdown and debt-ceiling imbroglios. It's what could become one of the most significant questions of the 2014 midterms: Whose unpopularity matters more, Republicans' or Obama's?

    Democrats are confident the GOP's struggles trump Obama's. But they acknowledge a struggling president doesn't help.

    "Is it possible for us to get the turnout we need if we don't have a stronger president?" asked Celinda Lake, a Democratic pollster who also spoke at the Monitor breakfast. "That really, in my mind, is the question. Because we can't have a wave election in our favor if we don't get these ... missing voters out.

    "We would be helped enormously by a president who is engaging voters and who is turning people out to vote."



    Parent
    And (none / 0) (#162)
    by jbindc on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 01:53:52 PM EST
    It's possible that Obamacare is causing the WH to hemorrhage Democrats....

    Democrats are on the verge of abandoning President Barack Obama on vital elements of his signature health care law at a time when his poll numbers have been sliding with three years left to go in his second term.

    House Democrats used a closed-door meeting Wednesday to hammer the White House's handling of the Obamacare rollout and aftermath. And Senate Democratic leaders have given their assent for the party's most vulnerable lawmakers to sign onto efforts to adjust the health care law.

    At Wednesday's raucous caucus meeting, Democrats blasted the White House for failing to come up with a way to ensure that President Barack Obama's if-you-like-it-you-can-keep-it promise about health insurance plans will be fulfilled. And they're unconvinced the White House will meet its self-imposed Nov. 30 deadline to fix the HealthCare.gov website.

    SNIP

    "It's ugly," said one Democratic source in the meeting. "There's no way Obama and Pelosi will let their legacy go down in flames. I just wouldn't want to be from a swing district right now. Or anything that closely resembles one."

    It has been a stunning turnaround for a party that won a showdown over a government shutdown and threatened default on the nation's debt just a few weeks ago by standing solidly behind Obama when he refused to negotiate change in the health law to re-open the government and avoid hitting the debt ceiling.

    "The caucus is very, very upset about the fact that the process hasn't worked, and Republicans have this bill," Cohen said.

    If they stand with the White House on Friday's vote, they face the worst of all possible worlds: Campaign ads pointing out that they not only backed Obama's broken promise but also opposed legislation to fix it. The White House has two days, they warned, to come up with an alternative way to ensure Americans aren't thrown off their health plans. The president has vowed to find an administrative fix--rather than a legislative one--but that has proved difficult so far.



    Parent
    Of course, that would (none / 0) (#72)
    by MKS on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 04:44:50 PM EST
    be what the polls would show now.....

    Parent
    Sarcastic Unnamed One (5.00 / 2) (#87)
    by CoralGables on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 05:46:25 PM EST
    I ran the AllState Ft Lauderdale Half Marathon on Sunday and did quite a bit better than planned. Perhaps old legs can still run, even when they numb out and just keep going one in front of the other for the last 9 miles. Next up...26.2

    Eldest grandson just ran a half marathon (5.00 / 2) (#106)
    by MO Blue on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 06:54:44 PM EST
    here in St. Louis. He came in in the top 15 of his age bracket even with a bummed up leg. Since he is in the Physical Therapy program at WashU, he can probably find enough people who will volunteer to work on his leg including his newest girl friend who is also in the program.

    Both grandsons run. Youngest was in cross country. OTOH, I've never had any desire to run. Have walked fairly long distances in the past and still enjoy walking several miles when the old knee is not acting up.

    Parent

    Congratulations. (5.00 / 1) (#113)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 07:42:45 PM EST
    I've run marathons in the past, but I've since retired from that sport. From my experience, I'd say that if you not only completed a half-marathon but also exceeded your own stated expectations while doing so, then you are probably already capable of running a full marathon.

    It really doesn't require much more training than what you've already done to get to this point, only diligence in actively maintaining your present strenuous regimen, and then perseverance once the race commences.

    Oh, and not that you need reminding, but please do a lot of stretching and hydrating, both before and afterward, especially if you're over 40. Personally, as a former college athlete I've always found the warm-down period after a long run or hard workout to be the easiest part of my training regimen to simply blow off, but I learned the hard way as I got older that you really do ignore it at your peril. We're not 25 any more, and the body simply does not recover as quickly as it once did.

    Good luck.

    Parent

    You know the issue well (none / 0) (#116)
    by CoralGables on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 08:09:46 PM EST
    Perseverance once the race commences.

    Ahhh, lots of heart and a stable head. Many things can go wrong between 13 and 26 as you well know. I still have demons from my only attempt 34 years ago.

    Parent

    I also raced on Sunday, I did a 5K and got 3rd in my "old and lame" age group.

    The 1/2 is actually one of my favorite distances as the time it takes to train for it is much more manageable than for 26.2.

    The NY Marathon was my one marathon, my wife has done a dozen or so.

    Biggest tip I learned from NY was you really need to moderate your pace the first 10 or so miles so you don't go out too fast.

    It's tough, though, because you are running with thousands of others, and they're all full of piss and vinegar at the start, so you get carried along with the crowds at a pace that is faster than you want.

    At NY my goal was 3:40, and I found myself ahead of goal pace by about 10 mins at the 1/2. I ended up with 3:42, and was happy with it, but the last 4-5 miles were reeeally tough and slow.

    I've always wondered what my time would have been if I hadn't run almost a minute faster/mile than my goal pace for that first 1/2.

    Oh well, whatcha' gonna do?


    Parent

    Congratulations! (none / 0) (#88)
    by Angel on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 05:51:16 PM EST
    Angel (none / 0) (#93)
    by CoralGables on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 06:07:52 PM EST
    with the large group of people I run with from very fit to not even close, I've come to the conclusion that anyone with a lengthy commitment can run, or walk and run, their way through 13.1. That said, I wouldn't suggest the 26.2 on anyone but the most deeply disturbed running fools.

    Parent
    I could easily walk (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by sj on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 06:14:38 PM EST
    a half marathon. Running it? Not so much. So congratulations to you.

    Parent
    A lot of the bigger one have lots of walkers (none / 0) (#102)
    by CoralGables on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 06:28:47 PM EST
    Sunday was mostly runners but there was still a chunk of walkers out of the 2000. The Miami one in February has close to 15,000 in the half marathon each year. Lots and lots of walkers.

    Parent
    During an Ironman (5.00 / 4) (#97)
    by ragebot on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 06:15:04 PM EST
    I was running on the second lap of a three lap course when a friend of mine on his first lap on a relay team caught up with me.  As we were running shoulder to shoulder and talking one of the ambulances that circles the course caught up to us and asked how we were doing.  I replied "I am sweating like a pig, I have snot all over my face, I feel like hammered sh1t, and I just said hello to a mail box".  The EMT replied "good luck, you are doing fine and don't need any help".

    Parent
    Gratz (none / 0) (#92)
    by ragebot on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 06:03:47 PM EST
    You may want to consider this one, it is lots of fun
    Key West Half Marathon

    Parent
    We've looked at that one (none / 0) (#95)
    by CoralGables on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 06:14:22 PM EST
    but a few pards are married with young kids, thus making the weekend away for a race a little more difficult to put together. Definitely a great option for a few older ones though to hang for a weekend in the Conch Republic with some post race re-hydration at Captain Tony's.

    The Seven Mile Bridge Run is a another great option.

    Parent

    Seven Mile Bridge Run (none / 0) (#98)
    by ragebot on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 06:20:06 PM EST
    is very hard to train for.  The problem is that while you can ride a bike over the Seven Mile Bridge walking/running across it is prohibited.  I have biked across it and the elevation change is a lot harder to do on a bike than in a car.  Often times the wind is also a significant factor.  There is also the issue that you have to register very early or you will miss out.

    Parent
    Your last sentence (none / 0) (#99)
    by CoralGables on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 06:24:38 PM EST
    is what makes the bridge run so tough for a group to put together. No guarantee everyone in the group that enters will make it in. But everyone still slips it onto the running bucket list.

    Parent
    Congrats! (none / 0) (#100)
    by jbindc on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 06:25:50 PM EST
    I dread the idea of having to drive a half marathon distance (and a full marathon distance), so good job!

    Parent
    Crazy girl :) (none / 0) (#117)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 08:41:49 PM EST
    Watching the geese in chevron flight, (5.00 / 3) (#107)
    by DFLer on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 07:02:28 PM EST
    to quote Joni Mitchell, in the evening sky, under-lit buy the city lights, honking their way south. Nice.

    Fairfax County counting (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by CoralGables on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 07:17:52 PM EST
    the accepted provisionals now in the AG race. Must be good for the Dems as the Republicans objected before they even started counting.

    How often (none / 0) (#109)
    by CoralGables on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 07:20:43 PM EST
    do 217 as of yet uncounted ballots gain so much attention from lawyers in an AG race.

    Parent
    Prior to these last ballots (none / 0) (#110)
    by CoralGables on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 07:27:44 PM EST
    Herring (D) is at +104. His lead dropped 13 votes after the counting of provisionals from 3 other districts today. To the best of my knowledge only the 217 votes in Fairfax are still outstanding.

    Parent
    And now we see (5.00 / 1) (#118)
    by CoralGables on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 08:46:17 PM EST
    why the Republicans didn't want the provisional ballots in Fairfax County counted.

    Looks like the Mark Herring (D) lead now sits at about +163 (still unofficial)

    Parent

    What looks like the final vote total (5.00 / 1) (#120)
    by CoralGables on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 08:49:43 PM EST
    in the Virginia AG race prior to the recount:

    Herring (D)     1,103,778
    Obenshain (R) 1,103,615

    Amazing!

    Parent

    Hope this trend keeps up (none / 0) (#133)
    by jbindc on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 08:05:49 AM EST
    Been gone (none / 0) (#119)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 08:47:58 PM EST
    Great news!  Last I heard it looked liked Herring was certain to lose.

    Parent
    ... once Gov. Neil Abercrombie signs SB 1 into law during tomorrow's ceremony, Hawaii will become the 16th state to recognize full marriage equality.

    But Lordy, what a contentious and ugly debate it was while it lasted at the State Capitol! It was easily the worst I've ever seen. To see and hear so much overt hatred and bigotry expressed toward gay men and women from people who would otherwise call themselves Christian, it served as a very sobering reminder to me of the sheer breadth of ignorance that exists out there in our communities.

    I don't care how many times one bears witness vicariously to such unbridled anger and self-righteous wrath on television, it's still another thing entirely to actually be there amongst it and experience it first-hand. And now that it's over, and speaking as a straight man, I must say that I've never been so ashamed and embarrassed of heterosexuals in my entire life.

    And further, probably never more so than when I had to listen to my former boss -- a friend I've known and respected for the better part of two decades now -- as he arose on the floor of the House last Thursday night to say the contemptuous, awful and vile things he did.

    To simply note that it was a truly cringe-worthy moment for me would be a gross understatement. I wanted to shrink down to the size of an ant and crawl under my seat to hide. Many longtime acquaintances in the community and the party came up to me afterward and asked, "Hey, what was up with Marcus? I thought he was your friend."

    Well, he was and he is, but quite honestly, because I had no way of even beginning to rationalize what I had just heard, I really had no answer to offer them, other than a sad shrug of my shoulders.

    And that really hurt, like a punch in the solar plexus. You know, if he's found Jesus as he says he has, from my perspective right now, he'd have no doubt been far better off had Christ remained forever lost to him.

    And to our gay brothers and sisters, I cannot even begin to fathom or imagine what it's been like for you all these decades, having had to endure that sort of horror show as its primary target on a near-daily basis as you have. All I want to do right now is hug each and every one of you and apologize from the bottom of my heart for what you've been through. I am so very, very sorry.

    Aloha.

    Postscript: Gov. Abercrombie's ... (5.00 / 1) (#159)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 01:24:30 PM EST
    ... signing ceremony for SB 1 is at 10:00 a.m. HST, to which I'm invited and will of course be attending. It's being broadcast live over the internet and on local public television.

    If you're at all interested in watching a little history unfold, here's the LINK. Just remember, we're two hours behind the west coast and five behind the east, so the broadcast will start at 12:00 noon PST and 3:00 p.m. EST.

    We just learned this morning that technically, Hawaii will become the 15th state to legalize marriage equality and not the 16th. It's a distinction without a difference, really, because although the Illinois legislature passed it five days before we did, Gov. Quinn has scheduled his own bill signing ceremony for one week from today, on November 20.

    It's still pretty amazing, though, to see two markedly different states legalize marriage equality in near-simultaneous fashion. It's indeed a beautiful day outside, and there's really no better day to move forward than the present. So, who's going to go next, and channel their inner diva?

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Once again... (5.00 / 1) (#125)
    by desertswine on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 09:55:46 PM EST
    I missed Sagan Day, who would have been 79, I think. But it's not too late to post Pale Blue Dot. Just for some damn perspective.

    "Transparency" (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by Edger on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 07:56:05 AM EST
    TPP November 13, 2013

    Wikilieaks Press Release

    Today, 13 November 2013, WikiLeaks released the secret negotiated draft text for the entire TPP (Trans-Pacific Partnership) Intellectual Property Rights Chapter. The TPP is the largest-ever economic treaty, encompassing nations representing more than 40 per cent of the world's GDP. The WikiLeaks release of the text comes ahead of the decisive TPP Chief Negotiators summit in Salt Lake City, Utah, on 19-24 November 2013. The chapter published by WikiLeaks is perhaps the most controversial chapter of the TPP due to its wide-ranging effects on medicines, publishers, internet services, civil liberties and biological patents. Significantly, the released text includes the negotiation positions and disagreements between all 12 prospective member states.

    The TPP is the forerunner to the equally secret US-EU pact TTIP (Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership), for which President Obama initiated US-EU negotiations in January 2013. Together, the TPP and TTIP will cover more than 60 per cent of global GDP. Both pacts exclude China.
    [...snip...]
    The TPP negotiations are currently at a critical stage. The Obama administration is preparing to fast-track the TPP treaty in a manner that will prevent the US Congress from discussing or amending any parts of the treaty. Numerous TPP heads of state and senior government figures, including President Obama, have declared their intention to sign and ratify the TPP before the end of 2013.

    More: full press release



    Citizen.org
    Leaked Documents Reveal Obama Administration Push for Internet Freedom Limits, Terms That Raise Drug Prices in Closed-Door Trade Talks

    Analyses of Wikileaks IP chapter



    More analysis of TPP (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by Edger on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 09:09:54 AM EST
    KEI
    The text released by Wikileaks is 95 pages long, with 296 footnotes and 941 brackets in the text, and includes details on the positions taken by individual countries.

    The document confirms fears that the negotiating parties are prepared to expand the reach of intellectual property rights, and shrink consumer rights and safeguards.

    Compared to existing multilateral agreements, the TPP IPR chapter proposes the granting of more patents, the creation of intellectual property rights on data, the extension of the terms of protection for patents and copyrights, expansions of right holder privileges, and increases in the penalties for infringement. The TPP text shrinks the space for exceptions in all types of intellectual property rights. Negotiated in secret, the proposed text is bad for access to knowledge, bad for access to medicine, and profoundly bad for innovation.

    The text reveals that the most anti-consumer and anti-freedom country in the negotiations is the United States, taking the most extreme and hard-line positions on most issues. But the text also reveals that several other countries in the negotiation are willing to compromise the public's rights, in a quest for a new trade deal with the United States.

    The United States and other countries have defended the secrecy of the negotiations in part on the grounds that the government negotiators receive all the advice they need from 700 corporate advisors cleared to see the text. The U.S. negotiators claim that the proposals need not be subject to public scrutiny because they are merely promoting U.S. legal traditions. Other governments claim that they will resist corporate right holder lobbying pressures. But the version released by Wikileaks reminds us why government officials supervised only by well-connected corporate advisors can't be trusted.

    An enduring mystery is the appalling acceptance of the secrecy by the working news media.
    [...snip...]
    Access to Medicines

    The trade agreement includes proposals for more than a dozen measures that would limit competition and raise prices in markets for drugs.



    Parent
    AN AXE LENGTH AWAY, vol. 186 (5.00 / 2) (#141)
    by Dadler on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 10:46:25 AM EST
    That's hysterical! (5.00 / 2) (#142)
    by Angel on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 10:53:32 AM EST
    Glad to be of service (none / 0) (#147)
    by Dadler on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 11:48:50 AM EST
    Please come again. ;-)

    Parent
    It's 1994 all over again (none / 0) (#5)
    by Slado on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 01:01:20 PM EST
    This add seems a little ironic now.

    You're (5.00 / 2) (#15)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 01:29:56 PM EST
    hysterical. Did you know that Obama used those same ads against Hillary Clinton back in 2008 and it's one of the reasons we got the healthcare legislation that we got? Obama was too afraid of those ads to try to do what really might work.

    Anyway, it's not 1994 again and the country is dead set against the GOP. I mean the same people complaining about how Obamacare is the end of the world actually strapped on their suicide vests and wanted to blow up the entire country.

    Let's see what are those approval ratings for the GOP? 22% the last time I looked. So pretending it's 1994 and millions of elderly GOP voters have not died off in the preceding 20 years seems kind of clueless to me.

    Parent

    That's one way to look at it (none / 0) (#28)
    by Slado on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 02:24:55 PM EST
    The other way is that common sense is timeless.

    Allowing the government to try and control the health system  through insurance is a bad idea.

    Bad idea then, even worse idea now.

    Parent

    "Common Sense" (5.00 / 2) (#70)
    by MKS on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 04:43:58 PM EST
    is often code for unproven bias and ignorance....

    "Common sense" over the eons has supported all kinds of nonsense.

    Parent

    Progressives abhor common sense (2.00 / 2) (#78)
    by Slado on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 05:18:20 PM EST
    because it takes twisted complicated logic to make 5 be less then 4.

    As Milton Freidman said..."There is no free lunch".

    You can't give more people insurance for less money.  That is a common sense statement.   The progressive retort was Obamacare and so far common sense is proving correct.

    Parent

    Actually (5.00 / 3) (#86)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 05:44:42 PM EST
    what this proves is the privatization model that conservatives love to offer as a solution to every problem does not work, does not save money and enriches the few at the expense of the many. Privatization is the one that believes that 600K is just fine for a contractor but paying the regular solider what 25K?

    And Paul Ryan wanted to turn Medicare into Obamacare. What does that tell you?

    Parent

    Come on, Slado (none / 0) (#149)
    by Dadler on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 11:53:35 AM EST
    Fire back, baby. I want some smoke rising.

    In truth, you're had. Because, again, we don't use a finite natural commodity as currency. If we did, every right-wing paradigm might hold true. But we use fiat currency, instead, an inanimate object (or non-object, more likely) of no intrinsic value and, thus, those right wing paradigms are simply destructive. IOW, it's just a game, and the game has to be fair, and because the game is played with real people on earth, the "losers" need to do better than we allow them to, or we will all be running for our lives, because "losers" like me far outnumber "winners" like whomever else.

    Parent

    You make (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 05:26:52 PM EST
    no sense. You are against the government interfering in health care but yet you are going to let a nameless faceless MBA decide whether you are a "profitable" proposition for them in their business model?

    What is MOST annoying from conservatives is that they are just fine with the current business model of the insurers until they are priced out of the market, denied coverage and or are denied in some other way and then REFUSE to look at what works in other first world countries and immediately start screaming that the US cannot do it.

    Parent

    I have said repeatedly (none / 0) (#85)
    by Slado on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 05:31:27 PM EST
    I favor a two tier health system.

    One funded by the government, and then a private system with private insurance.

    What I don't favor is the government making our bad health system worse by adding regulation and interfering in what little true market is left.  


    Parent

    So that you can scream (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by Politalkix on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 07:37:31 PM EST
    about cutting funding to the publicly funded tier and then propose creating a charter tier using taxpayer money?

    Parent
    Or (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by christinep on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 07:44:09 PM EST
    Like, for example, Chile.  At least from discussions several years ago in Santiago--when my husband & I inquired about their "universal" healthcare system (which, we assumed, seemed fairly good)--one tier appears to have evolved for the wealthier component of society and the other for everyone else ... and, anecdotally & from the same discussions, one can guess about the perceived quality of care for "everyone else."

    Parent
    And that, in short, is what the ACA is (5.00 / 3) (#150)
    by Dadler on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 11:54:50 AM EST
    And could never be anything but. Private, for-profit insurance will NEVER offer normal working people sh*t. It will always nickel and dime them and hope that they just die.

    Parent
    Oh, dear lord, this is just too much. (5.00 / 2) (#153)
    by Anne on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 12:26:06 PM EST
    When you talk about "regulations," do you mean regulations designed to make sure that for all the money people are paying to insurance companies they can get actual care in return?  

    So, deregulate -  where are we headed?  I suppose you'd say that "the market" would decide how much it should cost to get a mammogram, and if someone is priced out of the market, well, keep up those regular self-exams and hope you feel the lump before it's too late!  And brush up on your surgical skills, because if you can't afford a mammogram, you sure as hell aren't going to be able to afford surgery, chemo and radiation and the bazillion doctor visits between diagnosis, treatment and cure.

    Ever wonder where you'd be if "the market" had priced you out of all the treatments you've had?  In the world you describe, people like you wouldn't be considered worth the money it would take to cure/treat you.

    Might as well do away with the FDA, too.  Private inspection services will ensure that those who have the money can afford to buy safe food, while the rest of us will either have to take our chances and hope we don't get botulism or salmonella, or just stop eating anything we haven't grown ourselves.

    Do you ever think these bizarre thoughts of yours through to seeing how they would affect people who don't live in your head?

    It wouldn't seem so.  I'm not even sure parody or satire could do justice to the nonsense you're posting.


    Parent

    You are the drunk uncle at Thanksgiving.... (none / 0) (#73)
    by magster on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 04:49:14 PM EST
    here at TalkLeft.

    Parent
    I'll take that as a compliment (none / 0) (#79)
    by Slado on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 05:18:50 PM EST
    Drunk uncles are often correct.

    Parent
    They're usually just extremely annoying and (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by Angel on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 05:26:36 PM EST
    the relatives put up with them because they have to.  

    Parent
    Slado, the drunk uncle (none / 0) (#115)
    by Politalkix on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 07:46:33 PM EST
    was in high spirits and ready to celebrate a Romney win on general election day. The cocktail that Michelle Bachman served called "BHO-1 term President" has left a bad hangover that we will have to endure till 2016.

    Then we get to kick his b*tt once more....

    Ha Ha Ha Ha.

    Parent

    Drunk uncles also get arrested for DUI. (none / 0) (#177)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 03:09:37 PM EST
    I really don't care if you think you're correct or not. You're clearly inebriated and you're not going to drive home in your condition.
    ;-D

    Parent
    Only 17 years after it was built ... (none / 0) (#43)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 02:49:36 PM EST
    ... to host the 1996 Olympic Games, Turner Field in Atlanta is now being slated for demolition in 2017.

    The baseball Braves announced yesterday -- although the story is just breaking today nationally -- that they're not renewing their lease at Turner Field once it expires at the end of the 2016 season. Instead, they will abandon the city and join the white flight to neighboring Cobb County, which dangled a $450 million public subsidy for new stadium construction in front of the franchise as an enticement to relocate.

    It's so nice to see that Georgia's priorities are firmly in place and readily apparent for all to see.

    :-|

    One of these days (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by Slado on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 05:22:07 PM EST
    cities will stop being scammed by pro sports teams.

    Let me be clear, I don't blame the pro sports teams.  They are a business and as any business will do they take the best deal they can get.   It is the governments, state and local, that fall prey to this mindless spending and borrowing that give little to no civic benefit.

    Do you realize when they tore down Giants stadium to build the new Jets stadium it wasn't even paid for?   They still owe money on the bond?

    Atlanta is a particularly alarming example because it was left over from the ultimate sports scam....The Olympics.   What a bunch of fiscal baloney that scam is.

    Millions of people could literally have been fed for the money wasted building arenas and facilities for two weeks of games.

    What a joke.

    Parent

    That's nothing new. (none / 0) (#105)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 06:43:09 PM EST
    Slado: "Do you realize when they tore down Giants stadium to build the new Jets stadium it wasn't even paid for? They still owe money on the bond?"

    The city of Seattle is still paying off the last of the refinanced bonds first issued nearly 40 years ago to facilitate construction of the Kingdome, which was demolished back in March 2000 to make way for the Seahawks' current home, Century Link Field.

    Cities and states finance their major capital construction projects to avoid potential cash flow problems, which would undoubtedly occur with great regularity were they built on a cash-only basis. But while publicly financed stadiums and arenas have been windfalls to sports franchise owners everywhere, such projects often turn out to be notoriously poor investments for those communities which undertake to build them.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    An ugly update on Braves' move: (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 06:26:27 PM EST
    If you're one of those people who resolutely believe -- despite all the evidence to the contrary -- that racism has somehow been consigned to the history books in this country, the following dog whistle courtesy of Joe Dendy, lily-white Cobb County, GA GOP Chairman, ought to give you serious pause. Dendy was responding to questions about the new stadium's proposed relocation astride one of the busiest transportation corridors in metropolitan Atlanta:

    "It is absolutely necessary the (transportation) solution is all about moving cars in and around Cobb and surrounding counties from our north and east where most Braves fans travel from, and not moving people into Cobb by rail from Atlanta." (Emphasis is mine.)

    It should be noted in context that while Atlanta itself is a majority black city, suburban Cobb County is a wealthy and predominantly white enclave to its immediate northwest. Its county seat is Marietta, where some 98 years ago, Leo Frank -- a native New Yorker and a Jew -- was brutally lynched after having been convicted under highly dubious circumstances of murder in one of the more notorious race-based trials in Georgia history. Marietta is also the home of Mulligan's Food & Spirits, whose owner Mike Norman is certainly no stranger to stirring up racial animus and controversy.

    Given that bit of background, Ed Kilgore over at The Washington Monthly explains Dendy's remark in further context:

    "When I was in high school in Cobb County, my state representative (a Dixiecrat/Democrat) offered as his perennial campaign slogan: "Stop Atlanta at the River!"(i.e., the Chattahoochee River, which divides Cobb from Atlanta). Everyone knew exactly what he was talking about. Years later, when there was very brief talk of Cobb County joining the regional MARTA rapid transit system, bumper stickers sprouted in Marietta and Acworth and Kennesaw that said: "Take MARTA To Cobb and Rob." Again, everyone knew exactly what that was about.

    Now I don't live in Georgia any more, but I am reasonably sure no one thinks MARTA is going to be expanded into Cobb County any time in the near future. So Dendy's statement was a gratuitous racial slur aimed at assuring his constituents he and the GOP were ever-vigilant about protecting Cobb from those people.

    (Sigh!) I think there's good reason why prior to the Braves' 1966 relocation to Atlanta from Milwaukee, the city's AAA minor league baseball team was called the Crackers. And as Charlie Pierce noted today about the none-too-subtle racial references behind the Braves' move to Cobb County, no doubt with tongue firmly planted in cheek, "This is not about race because nothing is ever about race."

    Aloha.

    Parent

    you're so right (none / 0) (#130)
    by kmblue on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 06:42:16 AM EST
    I've lived in Midtown Atlanta for many years.  Cobb County is all about keeping the Atlanta riffraff (read "blacks") from coming into their area.
    I do wonder, though, how their domestic "help" manage to get to their jobs.

    Parent
    And the hits just keep on comming (none / 0) (#67)
    by ragebot on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 04:35:02 PM EST
    M1, M2, and MZM all are falling at historic lows.  For those of you who cut class the day they taught economics you may want to get up to speed on what this means.  What is happening in the economy is a lot easier to understand using classical economics if you know what money velocity means.

    There are three fed charts out of St. Louis if you google, but here is a link to

    M2

    Feel free to look at M1 and MZM, but they are similar to M2 which I consider a little more representative.

    Nothing but a rigged board game (none / 0) (#84)
    by Dadler on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 05:31:11 PM EST
    Yep, not good. But there is no need to understand anything other than, in this nation, we value money over human beings, every day, every chance we can. That's what risk management departments exist for -- to determine HOW MUCH a company should value money over people before it's not a good play economically (screw ethically). And that is all you need to know. We do not set the value of our currency according to a humane floor that ensures work (and which still allows for wealth and the like, but does not make the its focus), and which would result in citizens at the bottom who feel needed and worthwhile and invested in society, thus creating a more stable and change-capable society. Instead, we peg the value of our currency to the most inhumane aspects of our system -- the giant corrupt casino of Wall Street and speculation on human lives. IOW, we are stupid beyond belief. So stupid we treat money like a living thing, and people like disposable equipment. And that is just an indisputable fact right now, and is the CORE reason our economy and our nation, on the whole, are utterly stagnant and entirely dead in terms of political imagination. That's what corruption does, and it runs the country right now. Thus, average working people are phucked and they have no money to throw around with any velocity. They'd be lucky to skip a quarter across a puddle.

    BTW, go look at the fed's explanation of the money supply and try not to call bullsh*t within minutes. It's hocus-pocus in the service of graft.

    The Fed is simply a corrupt joke when it all boils down, no different than the rest of the federal government. Its "expertise" and "insight" are proven illusions. It serves the interests of the few and doles out just enough crumbs to just enough other people to hold back the mass of citizens who, literally, have nothing -- currently about 40% of the populace. But it can't do it much longer. And it seems incapable of understanding that basic truth.

    Parent

    The Fed's Action (none / 0) (#94)
    by ragebot on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 06:11:50 PM EST
    in terms of QE1, QE2, and QEinfinity under classical economics would seem to increase the velocity of money.  Instead the opposite has happened.  For the last five years the velocity of money has dropped faster and deeper than anytime since records have been kept.

    You may think the board game is fixed but what this indicates to me is that those trying to fix the game have failed to do so.

    Are you seriously trying to claim that the prez, the fed, and Wall Street would not like to see money velocity increase.  If pumping $US85 billion a month into the economy does not increase money velocity I am not sure what would, or how you could rig the game to make it increase.

    This is a new game, not just for the middle class but every one else as well.

    Parent

    AN AXE LENGTH AWAY, vol. 185 (none / 0) (#76)
    by Dadler on Tue Nov 12, 2013 at 05:14:31 PM EST
    Calbuzz nails it. (none / 0) (#143)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 11:05:19 AM EST
    Jerry Roberts, former political editor at the San Francisco Chronicle, and Phil Trounstine, former communications director for Gov. Gray Davis, have a wonderful blog in Calbuzz, which per its title tends to focus primarily in issues within and affecting the State of California.

    But when these two wordsmiths turn their attention to Washington and its resident media elite, as they are wont to do on occasion, the results can be both fun and illuminating:

    Calbuzz.com | November 13, 2013
    Lara Logan Gets Her Just Desserts - "Those who love to wallow in schadenfreude when Mean Girls get their comeuppance (we name no names) surely are amused by the karmic predicament of '60 Minutes' breathy star diva correspondent Lara Logan. [...] [W]e are gathered together here today simply to praise and witness the mighty power of divine retribution in clobbering Logan for her past bad behavior, when for no good reason she very publicly personally attacked and professionally smeared the since-deceased freelance investigative reporter Michael Hastings."

    It's definitely worth a read, if only to see what the Left Coast thinks. Sometimes, I think the mainstream media's obsessive and self-indulgent hyperfocus on events inside the Beltway and on Wall Street tends to warp its own perspective about the rest of the country beyond the Catskills and Appalachians. All too often, when issues and events do cause them to occasionally look west, it's as though they're doing so from the inside of a fishbowl.

    California is home to 38 million people. That's one in eight Americans, 12% of the population and a fair chunk of the U.S. economy. Further, it is a bellwether state, in that demographic and economic trends which will eventually affect the rest of the country are often already happening on the west coast, or have already occurred.

    Like it or not, California and the west do matter. The east coast media needs to recognize that and deal with it, by broadening its horizons to be more inclusive of geographically diverse opinion and viewpoints, because we definitely do not all see things as Washington and Wall Street do. What's a routinely ignored Friday afternoon document dump in D.C. is actually the middle of the day out here, and don't think a lot of us don't notice.

    Aloha. :-D

    Is your Social Security card vaild? (none / 0) (#144)
    by jmacWA on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 11:08:58 AM EST
    I just moved to the great Commonwealth of PA.  Much to my surprise when when I went to the DMV, I was told that my Social Security Card that I have had since 1961 was not a valid card.  They decided to "give me a break" and honor it when I refused to leave the line.  

    If this is just another one of the wonderful things brought to you by the Patriot Act... then maybe I missed the message that I had to get an updated social security card.

    Today you are considered a threat, unless you have a newly issued Social Sercurity card (at least more recent than 1961), and have your credit reports available (I keep mine frozen, since I never use credit).  

    Sorry to vent... but this is total Bu11sh!t IMO.  We are all potential terrorists now.

    The real kicker is... (5.00 / 4) (#148)
    by kdog on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 11:51:58 AM EST
    the old cards used to say right on 'em "Not For Identification"...now ya can't so much as take a piss without being asked for your SS number, aka National Identification Number.  Pisses me off too...one of the great things about this country is ya didn't need to carry papers and produce papers like so much of the old world...now we're one of the worst offenders.

    And don't get me started on that credit report bullsh*t!  I think we're kindred spirits you and I.

    Parent

    Hey, don't worry, Dog (none / 0) (#157)
    by Zorba on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 12:51:11 PM EST
    Eventually we won't have to worry about our cards or papers or whatever being up to date, or losing them.  They'll just microchip all of us, starting at birth, and periodically automatically update all the information on those chips.
    "Minority Report" times ten.
    :-(

    Parent
    It's becoming... (5.00 / 2) (#158)
    by kdog on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 01:09:10 PM EST
    less a dystopian funny and a more likely reality by the day...I just hope I'm dead before that judgement day...no way to live, no way to live.

    Parent
    It puts me in mind (none / 0) (#160)
    by jondee on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 01:33:13 PM EST
    of how this country post-WWII put so many of the Nazis to work. They with that Tuetonic efficiency in the art of collating the desirables and undesirables..

    Parent
    Yes, I agree (none / 0) (#187)
    by Zorba on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 03:46:57 PM EST
    Unfortunately.   {{Sigh}}

    Parent
    Already Done... (none / 0) (#184)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 03:29:50 PM EST
    ...and while the chip might not be actually implanted, for nearly all of us it is, attached to our psyche.  Which is far more effective.  Not only do we update the technology every couple of years, we actually pay all related costs.

    But just in case, the FDA approved microchips for humans in 2004.

    Parent

    Not for ID.. (none / 0) (#190)
    by jmacWA on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 04:00:58 PM EST
    Kdog... Yep that's the one Not for Identification purposes... I almost didn't push too hard because it said right on it Not for ID...

    My Advice:  Dont move out of the great state of NY and you will be fine.

    Regards

    JMAC

    Parent

    No kidding. (5.00 / 1) (#155)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 12:43:52 PM EST
    Jeez, I've still been using the one I got the year I graduated high school. Thanks for the info, because Hawaii has a similar law regarding driver's license renewals, and mine expires in February. I'll go down to the Federal Bldg. and apply for a new one later this afternoon, so I'll receive it by the time I need to go get my license renewed.

    Parent
    Is getting that new card a hassle? (none / 0) (#191)
    by jmacWA on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 04:08:29 PM EST
    Donald:  Please post and let me know how difficult it was to get that new card...

    Thanks

    JMAC

    Parent

    No, not that big a deal, but it depends (none / 0) (#198)
    by Zorba on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 05:10:01 PM EST
    Although it is not instantaneous.
    Son Zorba had to get a replacement S.S. card to apply for the Maryland State health insurance some time ago.  He went to the local Social Security office and presented his driver's license and his birth certificate.  They mailed the new copy to him.
    Now, if he had not had a certified copy of his birth certificate, I don't know what would have happened.

    Parent
    The SS website (none / 0) (#200)
    by MO Blue on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 05:45:02 PM EST
    states that a birth certificate cannot be accepted as identification. Here is pertinent data:

    We can accept only certain documents as proof of identity. An acceptable document must be current (not expired) and show your name, identifying information (date of birth or age) and preferably a recent photograph. A birth certificate is not a form of identification.  As proof of identity, Social Security must see one of the following primary evidence documents:

        U.S. driver's license
        U.S. State-issued non-driver identification card
        U.S. passport

    If you do not have one of the above specific documents or you cannot get a replacement for one of them within 10 days, we will ask to see another document, such as your:

        Employee identification card/badge
        Health insurance card or Medicaid card (not a Medicare card)
        U.S. military identification
        U.S. Government identification card
        Certificate of Naturalization
        Certificate of U.S. Citizenship
        U.S. Indian Tribal card (Social Security has to approve as an acceptable ID)
        Certified copy of a medical record
        School identity card, certified record, or transcript (current year)
        Life insurance policy link

    This info was update in 5/13 so it should be current.

    Parent

    Fortunately, (5.00 / 1) (#201)
    by Zorba on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 06:02:18 PM EST
    Son Zorba had a current driver's license.  He took his birth certificate just in case.
    But if his driver's license had been expired, or if he did not have a current license or state ID card, I think it would have been a whole lot more difficult. To get a Maryland State ID card, their website says you would need:

       

    Proof of identity and date of birth, such as:
            U.S. birth certificate.
            Valid U.S. passport.
            Valid foreign passport with U.S. visa and I-94.
        Proof of lawful presence in the U.S., such as:
            Valid U.S. passport.
            U.S. birth certificate.
            Valid foreign passport with U.S. visa and I-94.
        2 documents proving your MD residency, such as:
            Utility bill.
            Property tax bill.
            MD vehicle registration card.
        Proof of your Social Security number, such as:
            Original Social Security card.
            Recent W-2 or 1099 form.
            Proof of ineligibility.
        Required payment. See the "Maryland ID Card Fees" section below for fees and payment options.

    He has a birth certificate, but he does not have a "Utility bill. Property tax bill. MD vehicle registration card."  Since he is living with us.  And he doesn't have a recent W-2, since he hasn't had a job in the past two and a half years.
    So, if he had not had a current driver's license, then he could not have gotten his replacement S.S. card, nor could he have gotten a state ID in order to get his new S.S. card.
    Seems like a total fustercluck to me.  What do the unemployed, non-driver individuals who have lost their S.S. card do?

    I have no frigging idea.  

    Parent

    What card? (none / 0) (#165)
    by MKS on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 02:03:41 PM EST
    I lost mine in high school....I just use the number....I thought that is what everybody did...

    The card I had was paper and was folded, spindled and mutilated within a year....and then I lost it before it totally disintegrated.

    Parent

    I lost mine 15 yrs ago (5.00 / 2) (#166)
    by shoephone on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 02:15:51 PM EST
    when my purse was stolen at a club. But, these days, to get a second job during holiday season, a lot of employers are requiring you show them the actual card. So, two years ago I had to get a replacement. Which I never carry in my purse!

    Parent
    As is the DMV... (5.00 / 2) (#168)
    by kdog on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 02:36:58 PM EST
    last time I needed to "prove" I is who I say I is, they gave my tattered and torn SS card with half my name unlegible the thrice-over, but accepted it.

    Somewhat related...whats up with these bars scanning licenses?  My sister is over 40, this place wouldn't let her in because her license expired a couple days prior to our outing.  To which she replied "yeah but its still me!".  Needless to say we'll never attempt to patronize that sh*thole again.  I've even seen my 65 year old moms get carded at the supermarket.  We've lost our minds.

    Parent

    I lost mine too, when my wallet was stolen (5.00 / 3) (#189)
    by vml68 on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 03:59:00 PM EST
    years ago at the OSU library. I was photocopying some materials and turned my back on my stuff for a minute. Whoever took it, I hope it was worth it because I still haven't forgiven you.

    Parent
    It's Roughtly the Same... (5.00 / 1) (#167)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 02:36:12 PM EST
    ...as a birth certificate, when you need two forms of ID, like starting a job it's always photo ID, and either BC or SS card.

    Mine says right on it not to laminate, but not laminating card stock isn't a very good idea and it makes no sense to not put it in something that cannot be tampered with so easy.  

    I still cannot get over my signature whenever I signed it, sometimes before I started driving.  Every letter carefully crafted and legible, certainly the work of someone who took great pride in his signature.

    Parent

    I have no idea (none / 0) (#188)
    by Zorba on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 03:50:33 PM EST
    Where my Social Security card is.  I suppose that I should get a duplicate.
    But I do have my driver's license, passport, and birth certificate.  (And our marriage license, as well.)
    So I guess all is not lost.  I guess.  I hope.

    Parent
    Me, too (none / 0) (#202)
    by sj on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 06:09:24 PM EST
    I lost mine in high school....I just use the number....I thought that is what everybody did...
    Ever since the I9 form became mandatory I've been using my passport.

    Parent
    Cue rending of garments and gnashing of teeth (none / 0) (#169)
    by vicndabx on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 02:39:51 PM EST
    NYT Link

    New data shows that just over 100,000 people picked health plans in the first month of open enrollment through the state and federal insurance marketplaces established by the Affordable Care Act, a figure far lower than the Obama administration initially estimated would sign up during that period.

    dum dum dum dummmmmmm

    Hope you have an extra set of clothes and (5.00 / 1) (#172)
    by Anne on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 02:48:28 PM EST
    a good dental plan, vic.

    I think you are sorely mistaken if you think there are going to be people here cheering the enrollment of anyone in a health insurance plan, whether it's one person or 100,000, considering that, as things currently stand, that's the only way one gets access to care.

    Just curious, though - is the administration's definition of an enrollee as "someone who has selected a marketplace plan" the same thing as actually being a subscriber?

    Perhaps you can bring your wealth of health insurance industry knowledge to the discussion; we're all ears!

    Parent

    You got jokes - I like it (none / 0) (#174)
    by vicndabx on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 03:04:03 PM EST
    wealth of health insurance industry knowledge to the discussion; we're all ears

    :-)

    You are correct. These folks wouldn't technically be enrolled until the insurer processes the 834 w/the enrollee's specifics.

    That being said - if someone has submitted an application that has been vetted via the info gathering process on the website, these are valid pending enrollees. I don't think the process is any different than that used for new hires at a company.  Most people once they get a job, expect they'll have coverage.  This is quite similar, IMO.

    Parent

    Actually (5.00 / 1) (#175)
    by jbindc on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 03:07:07 PM EST
    As someone mentioned yesterday, this is more like someone shopping at Amazon.  I don't "own" anything that's in my shopping cart, nor will it be sent to me, until I pay, so I can't be counted as a "customer" at that point.

    Someone who has a plan in a shopping cart may have put it there to go back to it later, after they do some more investigation into that or other plans.  To call that person an "enrollee" is just nonsense.

    Parent

    No it's not nonsense (none / 0) (#179)
    by vicndabx on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 03:15:22 PM EST
    since that's not what I said.

    Please note I said "submitted an application".

    Something sitting a shopping cart has not been submitted.

    Parent

    And yet (none / 0) (#181)
    by jbindc on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 03:21:48 PM EST
    That's how the administration is calculating the
    number of enrollees".

    Parent
    Mebbe, Mebbe Not (none / 0) (#182)
    by vicndabx on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 03:27:58 PM EST
    Shrug (none / 0) (#196)
    by jbindc on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 04:57:55 PM EST
    From the WaPo article I cited:

    "In the data that will be released this week, `enrollment' will measure people who have filled out an application and selected a qualified health plan in the marketplace," said an administration official, who requested anonymity to frankly describe the methodology.

    SNIP

    The administration plans to use this count of enrollees because that's where their interaction with the healthcare.gov site ends, the administration official said. Insurance plans, rather than the federal government, are responsible for collecting the first month's premium.

    Haven't heard anyone from the administration refute this, so YMMV.

    Parent

    I am shocked, shocked!,... (5.00 / 1) (#173)
    by kdog on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 02:52:27 PM EST
    to learn that healthy people aren't keen on signing up for another monthly bill they can't afford to pay;)

    Parent
    ... I was in my mid-twenties, kdog. Just a few years removed from being a Div. 1 college athlete, I worked out and ate right, and I was the stereotypical picture of good health -- until suddenly I wasn't any more. It's amazing how a little thing like Hodgkin's lymphoma can sneak up and ambush an otherwise perfectly healthy 28-year-old, y'know?

    Until we finally reach the point in the reform process where we are all covered under a single-payer system like Medicare, health care insurance should be seen as a necessary component for your own financial protection, and not as some unwanted government-imposed burden. But if you're uninsured by choice and you want to play that version of Russian Roulette with your health care needs, that's totally cool with me -- with one caveat.

    And that caveat is you make sure that you have a very hefty and well-endowed contingency fund set up and readily available to cover your bills and expenses in case of unforeseen calamity.

    Further, your designated failsafe position in case the unthinkable happens should NOT be your state's (probably embattled) Medicaid program, which otherwise seems to be the unfortunate mindset of an awful lot of "healthy" individuals who willingly choose to be uninsured, even though they can either receive coverage through their employer or afford it themselves.

    Because if your fallback plan in case of emergency is simply to declare bankruptcy and go on Medicaid, then I'd offer that you might in store for some pretty rude surprises, in addition to your current health care crisis:

    • Whatever money you saved in insurance premiums can now serve as a retainer for a good bankruptcy attorney. With the changes in federal bankruptcy law a few years ago, the fine art of socializing risk and privatizing profit is primarily the province of corporations, and not individuals. Hospitals and medical providers can and will now attach your capital assets in order to ensure they get their pound of flesh, in exchange for having saved yours.

    • You best first understand your own state's Medicaid program requirements. Most states -- especially "red" states -- expect their Medicaid recipients to be otherwise living a near-marginal existence. They will generally not look kindly upon any attempts on your part as a beneficiary to either hide or shield significant financial assets, and you can be prosecuted for fraud and / or required to repay the state those monies spent on your behalf.

    But really, the bottom line here is that by willfully eschewing coverage, you're effectively playing your fellow state taxpayers for potential deep-pocket schmucks, simply because you believe the odds are better than even that bad things will somehow always happen to other people. And that, I would contend, is really NOT cool.

    Therefore, if you willingly choose to go uninsured even if you can otherwise afford or receive coverage, then please understand that you're shooting a high-stakes craps game at your own risk, and not playing with house money. And should you roll snake eyes, that'll be all she wrote.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Yep (none / 0) (#171)
    by jbindc on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 02:45:26 PM EST
    Using a counting measure only a politician could love.

    Health insurance plans only count subscribers as enrolled in a health plan once they've submited a payment. That is when the carrier sends out a member card and begins paying doctor bills.

    When the Obama administration releases health law enrollment figures later this week, though, it will use a more expansive definition. It will count people who have purchased a plan as well as  those who have a plan sitting in their online shopping cart but have not yet paid.

    "In the data that will be released this week, `enrollment' will measure people who have filled out an application and selected a qualified health plan in the marketplace," said an administration official, who requested anonymity to frankly describe the methodology.

    BTW - I have three accounts, because every time I tried to sign up I had problems.  So at least 2 of those "enrollees" are me - with plans sitting in two differnt shopping carts.  I'm not alone.

    Parent

    I was wrong, I admit it (5.00 / 1) (#176)
    by woodchuck64 on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 03:07:18 PM EST
    I was off by an order of magnitude.

    However, I still feel my reasoning was sound: the President had demonstrated an excellent grasp of new media and the challenges of new technology in trouncing Romney in 2012.  I thought that experience would surely be brought to bear on on his health-plan website technology as well.  I guess not.  I look forward to the full story, though.  

    Parent

    Not so sure (none / 0) (#178)
    by vicndabx on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 03:12:51 PM EST
    I'll wait and see how the reporting plays out.

    Parent
    Here's the first (5.00 / 1) (#180)
    by jbindc on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 03:20:33 PM EST
    NYT

    The White House has spent weeks trying to lower expectations about the enrollment figures, which have set off a pitched political battle among supporters and critics of the health overhaul, each seeking political advantage in the numbers.

    One point of contention is around the way the Obama administration defines who, precisely, is enrolled.

    The administration counts new enrollees as those who have "selected a marketplace plan." They are people like Hung Trang, a 60-year-old nail salon owner in Tampa, Fla., who has been trying for weeks to sign up for coverage. With some help from a counselor, called a "navigator," he has picked a plan, but has not yet committed to buy it.

    The health insurance industry, though, says people like Mr. Trang do not count until they have agreed to pay.

    "Paying the first month's premium is what needs to happen before coverage actually begins," said Robert Zirkelbach, a spokesman for America's Health Insurance Plans, the industry trade association. "Until a consumer makes their first-month premium, they can make a different coverage decision -- including whether they want to buy coverage or not."

    (Since you're in the insurance industry, I'm sure you know this already)

    And Kathleen Sebelius chose her words very carefully here (from the WaPo):

    In announcing the enrollment figures for the first reporting period of Oct. 1 to Nov. 2, Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius said that 106,185 people "have selected plans from the marketplace." She said that 975,407 others "have made it through the process by applying and receiving an eligibility determination, but have not yet selected a plan." An additional 396,261 have been deemed eligible for Medicaid or the Children's Health Insurance Program, she said.

    Just for starters on that reporting...

    Parent

    Just Think JB... (5.00 / 3) (#193)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 04:42:21 PM EST
    ...you are going are going to count for two marks in Obama win column when they release the numbers.

    That is criminal, literally, and a little funny since I know you and the issues you have had with ACA and Obama in general.

    Try telling the SEC you counted online shopping cart goods as sales, aka income.  Enron did something similar, but they moved debt off their books, either way income is artifically inflated.

    If there are a lot dollars in those carts I guarantee there is talk somewhere over at Big Insurance about what they are going to do if Obama insists those folks should be considered enrolled.  Get the big bonus this year with inflated numbers and next year those losses will help offset income and reduce their tax liability.

    Parent

    I'm trying to do what I can (5.00 / 2) (#194)
    by jbindc on Wed Nov 13, 2013 at 04:52:09 PM EST
    If I can support "the team" by helping inflate the numbers, then my work here is done.

    Parent