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Wednesday Morning Open Thread

Morning! Bad GDP number for the 4th quarter. Reason? Drastic drop in government spending. But, but, but Fix the Debt! Idiots.

My own budget policies now include a sizable investment on the 49ers (-4) over the Ravens. Geithner Lew should take a look at that. (I kid.)

Open Thread.

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    80+ CEOs (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by sj on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 09:25:58 AM EST
    spending $60 million dollars on a campaign named "Fix the Debt."  Because they all care so, so much about Social Programs and aren't at all interested in fattening their own already burgeoning pockets.  Via Corrente.

    I haven't read Corrente in awhile (none / 0) (#5)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 09:27:41 AM EST
    You might find this from there... (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by unitron on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 11:27:13 AM EST
    Thank you (none / 0) (#44)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 11:48:51 AM EST
    I find Anonymous interesting.  I read the chat log from when HBGary sent their Penny person in to talk to them.  Who are these guys?  Bizarre, interesting, an equalizer?  Are their claimed abilities real?

    Parent
    Jim Nabors (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by jbindc on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 09:29:46 AM EST
    He will be welcomed back (none / 0) (#51)
    by Slado on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 12:19:44 PM EST
    Home in Indiana

    Still my favorite part of the 500

    Parent

    He may be welcomed back to Indy, but ... (none / 0) (#82)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 02:47:43 PM EST
    ... home for Jim Nabors is here on Oahu, where he's resided for about 40 years now. He and his husband -- a retired Honolulu firefighter -- live the east Honolulu district of Kahala, which on the other side of Diamond Head from Waikiki and about 4 miles from our house in Kuliouou Valley. It's really not uncommon to see the two of them out and about at Kahala Mall or various local restaurants.

    Further, Nabors has always been very generous with his time and support of our local community playhouse, the Diamond Head Theatre, and has been organizing and performing at its annual Christmas show fundraiser for nearly 25 years now, which is always a big success. He's a true gentleman in every sense of the word, and is very much beloved here in east Honolulu.

    Parent

    Obama's Job Council (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by jbindc on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 12:52:02 PM EST
    The results are in:  FAIL

    President Barack Obama's jobs council, a panel formed in January 2011 to gather outside expertise on job creation, is set to expire Thursday. It appears unlikely that the president will renew it for another term, but experts say that the council has been such a loser that its death might actually be a good thing.

    The jobs panel, officially called the President's Council on Jobs and Competitiveness, is made up of 26 important people from industry, labor, and academia, and was "created to provide non-partisan advice to the President...on ways to create jobs, opportunity, and prosperity for the American people," according to its website. But the panel failed to accomplish much over its two-year life span, and a lot of what it did turn out was more friendly to business than to regular people.

    The council hasn't met in over a year (its last meeting was January 17, 2012) and has only met four times since it was created. Last summer, the White House said that the council had not convened in the past several months because the president had "a lot on his plate." The panel has put out a total of three policy recommendation reports, but that hasn't translated into much actual movement on jobs.

    All righty, then.

    The proverbial blue ribbon panels (none / 0) (#57)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 01:04:34 PM EST
    are most often a waste of time because they search for consensus. One person can make a solid recommendation based on opinion. Two have an outside chance. Twenty-six are dead in the water.

    Parent
    Maybe, but (5.00 / 2) (#58)
    by jbindc on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 01:07:59 PM EST
    But the panel failed to accomplish much over its two-year life span, and a lot of what it did turn out was more friendly to business than to regular people.

    ...is the crux of the matter...

    Parent

    Funniest Academy Awards parody evah. (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by caseyOR on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 01:43:06 PM EST
    Yes, I too was swept away with emotion while watching Les Mis. And it should be so wrong to use Anne Hathaway's poor, poor Fantine as the source material for parody. And yet, this parody is one of the funniest things I have seen in a long time.

    And it's funny because it could be true.

    Absolutely brilliant! (none / 0) (#81)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 02:18:34 PM EST
    This is hysterical! (none / 0) (#83)
    by Zorba on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 02:52:54 PM EST
    Thanks for the link, Casey.
    And Emma Fitzpatrick does a tremendous job!

    Parent
    Arsehole of the day... (5.00 / 2) (#85)
    by kdog on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 03:23:28 PM EST
    "I only give God 10%, why should I give you 18%?"
    First of all you ain't giving God anything, except maybe grief. God has no use for your money, you give it to a church made up entirely of human beings.

    Secondly, if and when God serves you a BLT, you better bump up the alms to 20%, or at least 15%.  The biblical God is a vengeful spiteful entity, he/she/it will spit in your soup!

    Roses are red, violets are blue. (5.00 / 3) (#97)
    by KeysDan on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 06:01:35 PM EST
    health insurance costs are now on our W-2.   This new Valentine, in keeping with the ACA, displays the cost of employer-sponsored  health coverage in  Box 12, reflecting the part of the cost paid by the employer and the part of the cost paid by the employee.

    These benefits are not taxable but the goal of the disclosure is apparently to show that health coverage is a big piece of income--supposedly surprising some.   There are concerns in some quarters that the reporting may facilitate future taxing of benefits. Never-the-less,  it does show that employer  health insurance coverage is not free, but rather, that  such coverage is in lieu of wages and salary-- benefits, essentially, result in  reduced take-home pay.   And, if employer health coverage is decreased, income is  decreased.  A factor that also needs to be kept forefront when consideration is given to cutting deferred benefits including pension and health care.

    Executive compensation has long involved a "package" that includes salary,  benefits and perks, with flexibility among them.  Maybe it time for all workers to be sure to  look at their earned income in a similar light.

    It should also include... (none / 0) (#105)
    by unitron on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 10:14:45 PM EST
    ...the employer half of SS and Medicare or Medicaid or whatever it is, as well as unemployment insurance premiums.

    All that is part of the cost of keeping a person on the payroll (which cost their work supposedly is valuable enough to cover and then some), so it's really part of their overall compensation package, and they should be made aware of it--it should be right there, staring them in the face.

    Parent

    My W2 Box 12... (none / 0) (#121)
    by kdog on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 09:34:17 AM EST
    says "see Instrs. for Box 12"...what's up with that?  

    You got me curious as to how much bossman and I are getting ripped off by Oxford.

    Parent

    Apparently, at the present time, (none / 0) (#123)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 09:54:35 AM EST
    reporting is optional for employers required to file fewer than 250 W-2 forms for the preceding calendar year.  

    Parent
    Thanks KD... (none / 0) (#125)
    by kdog on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 10:07:58 AM EST
    that explains it, bossman musta excercised the option.

    Parent
    From our "Super Boo XLVII" file: (5.00 / 2) (#104)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 09:42:14 PM EST
    Now, YOU can learn to speak the King's English and improve your grammar and syntax in less than 24 hours! But don't take my word for it -- just listen to Chris Culliver, starting cornerback for the NFC champion San Francisco 49ers:

    Tuesday, January 29: "No, we don't got no gay people on the team, they gotta get up out of here if they do. Can't be with that sweet stuff. Nah ... can't be in the locker room man. Nah."

    Wednesday, January 30: "The derogatory comments I made yesterday were a reflection of thoughts in my head, but they are not how I feel. It has taken me seeing them in print to realize that they are hurtful and ugly. Those discriminating feelings are truly not in my heart. Further, I apologize to those who I have hurt and offended, and I pledge to learn and grow from this experience."

    I'd say that's a wee bit too much heavy-handed PR handling on the 49ers' part, wouldn't you agree?

    Hey, the guy said it. The 49ers should make him own it, and if they're at all serious about promoting goodwill in a city that's 20 - 25% LGBT, then they should suspend him without pay for Super Bowl week -- not manufacture an almost laughably insincere statement of apology for him. Chris Culliver is an adult, and doesn't need a babysitter.

    After all, truly free speech is also responsible speech -- and you should always be responsible, first and foremost, to your own self. And in that regard, I'd offer that getting yourself suspended during Super Bowl week for violating team policy by publicly expressing your intolerance and / or bigotry toward LGBT persons would be pretty irresponsible on your part.

    Aloha.

    Very ham-handed by the PR people. (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by caseyOR on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 11:22:08 PM EST
    They could have tried to make the fake apology sound like words that might actually come out of Culliver's mouth.

    As to a suspension, well, there is tolerance and there is $$$$. Guess which speaks louder.

    Parent

    Well, for what it's worth, ... (5.00 / 2) (#114)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 01:33:35 AM EST
    ... Chris Culliver has set people in the San Francisco Bay Area to talking about 49er football in a social context that really has nothing to do with the game itself -- during Super Bowl Week, no less.

    And in so doing, he created controversy and a wholly unnecessary distraction for his coach, his team and the entire 49er organization, not to mention the NFL to a somewhat lesser extent.

    The media today wasn't asking Coach Jim Harbaugh about what he was going to do to counter the Ravens' defensive pressure on his rookie quarterback. Instead, they were grilling him about what he was going to do about his own cornerback, given that Culliver appeared to go out of his way to contradict his coach's rather enlightened public statement from the previous day about respecting and welcoming gay men in pro football. Harbaugh can't possibly be happy with Culliver right now.

    You know, embracing the concept of mutual respect and tolerance doesn't mean that we all have to like each other and be BFFs and hold hands and sing Kumbaya as a chorus.

    It simply requires that we all be basically cool with one another -- i.e., mind our own business and resist the urge to stick our noses in places where we otherwise really don't belong -- and learn to live and let live. While you do have to work at it on a daily basis, it's really not rocket science.

    Jim Harbaugh seems to get that, as do you and I and most of the regulars here. Why others can't or won't grasp that, I honestly can't tell you.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Have you checked the guy's twitter feed? (none / 0) (#136)
    by nycstray on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 12:21:41 PM EST
    Talk about mangled english . . . they should have given the statement to him to rewrite, as I doubt the PR dept could even go there . . .

    Parent
    No doubt, Chris Culliver is ... (none / 0) (#140)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 02:07:46 PM EST
    ... a great football player, one of the true stalwarts in the 49er defensive backfield. But quite honestly, he'll never be mistaken as the second coming of Alan Page, the hardworking and fearsome Pro Bowl defensive tackle of the Minnesota Vikings (1967-78), who used his football earnings to put himself through law school at the University of Minnesota and has served since 1992 as an eminently respected associate justice of the Minnesota Supreme Court.

    Rather, Culliver is nothing more than a show dog whose sole raison d'etre is to entertain us on Sunday afternoons, and annoy us when he barks and doesn't shut up as he did on Tuesday. And in that regard, his breed is purely ornamental, and not useful for anything else -- save perhaps as an example why social promotion is not necessarily a good concept in public education.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    You go too far. (5.00 / 1) (#145)
    by indy in sc on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 04:21:20 PM EST
    Rather, Culliver is nothing more than a show dog whose sole raison d'etre is to entertain us on Sunday afternoons, and annoy us when he barks and doesn't shut up as he did on Tuesday. And in that regard, his breed is purely ornamental, and not useful for anything else -- save perhaps as an example why social promotion is not necessarily a good concept in public education.

    No doubt, Chris Culliver showed the height of ignorance with his comments and he should receive the same treatment anyone else would if they used such offensive language in the scope of their employment as he did.  That said, he is still a person.  I don't think it elevates your arguments to liken him to an animal whose only purpose in life is your entertainment.  That's a pretty harsh way to argue on the side of tolerance.

    Parent

    I used that term for a specific reason. (none / 0) (#156)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 06:11:14 PM EST
    Culliver is a show dog by his own choice. Ultimately, it's up to him to demonstrate that there's more to his existence than simply being a self-absorbed attention hound. Pun intended.

    When I see anti-social behavior like Culliver's, I have a tendency to be very blunt. I wouldn't be honest with myself, were I to characterize him as being anything other than what I've perceived him to be by his own accord. I don't think I'm denying his humanity by likening him to a trained show dog who thrives on public attention.

    Show dogs in sports are a dime a dozen, but what's ultimately really sad about them is not their innate narcissism, but rather how many are subsequently abandoned by so many people around them, once they are perceived as being of no further value to anyone. And if selfishly using and discarding someone like that is not the ultimate denial of that person's humanity, than I don't know what is.

    I sincerely wish that Culliver would take to heart the criticism he's been receiving this week, and work hard to become a better and more well-rounded person -- including taking personal responsibility to prepare himself for his life after pro football, which given his public display of emotional immaturity he has obviously failed to do.

    The 49ers really did Culliver no favors by having their PR office draft that boiler plate apology statement for him. They did so self-servingly, out of their own personal interest to squelch criticism and controversy during the franchise's moment in the sun this week.

    They certainly didn't act out of any real concern for Culliver as a person. I fear all they probably did was further enable his boorish behavior, when what he really needs is a swift kick in the booty, and someone in authority to tell him in no uncertain terms to grow up.

    In that regard, the 49ers are like a mother who's forever apologizing to everyone in the neighborhood for her child's offensive behavior, rather than compelling her son or daughter to own his or her mistakes and answer to the outside world for them.

    ESPN2 is replaying a fantastic documentary on Sunday, Feb. 3 about the surprising number of retired pro athletes who've gone bust -- including a few well-known "show dogs" -- after their cleats are hung up and the applause dies away, mostly because they've never really been prepared to do anything in life other than excel at their respective sports. It was both insightful and moving, to say the least.

    Everyone wants to be your friend when you're young and in the big leagues and you've got the big bucks to burn. And I don't think Chris Culliver has a clue what awaits him when the money finally runs out, the women and the brothers are no longer interested in hanging with yesterday's newspaper, the fast cars are either up on blocks or being repossessed, and the McMansion is in foreclosure.

    I would lay better than even odds that nobody has really been looking out for Culliver's best interests -- not his agent, not those people he thinks are his friends, not even Culliver himself. Rather, they've thus far been enabling and excusing his conduct.

    This week's public blowback over his insensitive and homophobic public remarks may probably be the first time that anyone has really challenged him as a human being, rather than as merely a pro athlete. Let's hope he wises up.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    UPDATE: It's Media Day ... (none / 0) (#141)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 02:30:32 PM EST
    ... at the Super Bowl, and people are STILL discussing Culliver's homophobic comments. I can only imagine what the media's going to be asking 49er coaches and players today.

    To the organization's credit, the 49ers have long been one of the more enlightened franchises in pro sports with regards to civil rights issues, especially with regard to the LGBT community in San Francisco, and they've issued the following statement:

    "The San Francisco 49ers reject the comments that were made and have addressed the matter with Chris. There is no place for discrimination within our organization at any level. We have and always will proudly support the LGBT community."


    Parent
    One of the things that I am (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by Zorba on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 03:08:24 PM EST
    wondering about- I know that he attended South Carolina, but I cannot seem to determine if he graduated with a degree or not.  
    In any case, his Twitter comment would seem to indicate that he was not exactly, shall I say, college material, and it does not reflect well on USC.
    Culliver is a homophobic idiot, and without enough sense to keep his d@mned mouth shut, either.
    But in the larger scheme of things, what does this also say about "big time" college sports?  
    I like sports, but I believe that colleges and universities should be about educating students who have college potential, not acting as the facilitators and, basically, "minor leagues" for pro sports.  This seems to be especially the case for football and basketball.
    Whatever happened to the old "scholar-athlete" idea?
    And, yes, the 49'ers have been "one of the more enlightened franchises in pro sports with regards to civil rights issues," but I found their statement to be less than satisfactory.  I'm glad that they "reject" his comment, but AFAIC, they should suspend him from the Superbowl.  As they did in December with running back Brandon Jacobs for criticizing his coaches.
    To me, it's much, much worse to spew homophobic hatred than to complain that you are "rotting away" on a team.
     

    Parent
    It has been several decades (5.00 / 1) (#144)
    by indy in sc on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 04:14:30 PM EST
    since colleges' primary concern regarding its "big-time" athletes was education.  It seems you think that that a college's' primary function is to educate its students.  Most people go to college to learn the things they will need for their desired profession.  I don't see student athletes any differently.  If my goal is to become a professional football player, then my focus in school is on the football team(the games, practice, learning the schemes, etc.).  If my goal is to become a psychologist, my focus in school is on my psychology classes.  In either case, there are other subjects and activities I may be required to study or undertake, but I don't see it as horrible not to focus on those things.

    Yes, I believe all athletes should study a subject that will provide them with a fall-back if they don't make it to the next level or even if they do, for the day when they are no longer playing, but that is up to the individual student to figure out.

    Parent

    Speaking as a former college athlete ... (5.00 / 1) (#158)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 06:37:08 PM EST
    ... and the parent of one, I think you offer a lot of good points from the athlete's perspective. (Were you perchance one yourself?) Reading it, I could relate because I fancied myself becoming a pro baseball player, and thus there were many days when I questioned why I had to take ENG 250 - English Literature or HIST 150 - World Civilizations.

    I agree that it is up to the college athlete's own initiative to prepare himself or herself for the day he or she is no longer playing in his or her chosen sport, but I disagree with your contention that the burden is solely upon the athlete.

    I happen to believe that colleges do in fact have an inherent responsibility to ensure that all the students who are enrolled -- non-athlete and athlete alike -- are in fact being educated. Athletics should be considered as part of the overall curriculum, rather than considered solely for its revenue generating potential and entertainment value.

    Schools that emphasize the latter rather than the former tend to treat their athletes as mere cogs in the machine at best, and pieces of meat at worst. There's been growing public pressure upon the NCAA in recent years to crack down on college athletic departments and sports programs that exploit their charges for their own purposes, rather than prepare them for the world that awaits them.

    It's for that very reason why the University of Miami Hurriane football is presently under investigation, and why you won't be seeing UConn Huskies in the NCAA men's basketball tournament this year.

    An athlete's academic performance has to be given equal weight to his or her athletic performance, and coaches need to be called out when they fail to ensure that their athletes are attending class, passing their courses and making real progress toward their academic degrees.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Ohhh--You mention (none / 0) (#188)
    by indy in sc on Fri Feb 01, 2013 at 11:37:34 AM EST
    my Miami Hurricanes!!  Low-blow :).  The University of Miami can do no wrong!

    It's worth noting that the NCAA is now investigating its investigation of Miami.  Talk about corruption!  I know, I know--it doesn't negate what is alleged to have happened at UM, but the NCAA has no moral authority either.

    Parent

    UM baseball (none / 0) (#189)
    by CoralGables on Fri Feb 01, 2013 at 12:47:41 PM EST
    could possibly be entangled in the same PED web with Arod. The conditioning coach for the UM baseball team was a patient/client of Arod's most recent PED supplier.

    Parent
    I refuse to listen (none / 0) (#190)
    by indy in sc on Fri Feb 01, 2013 at 01:36:35 PM EST
    to you bearers of bad news! :)  I prefer to remain in denial, thank you very much!  

    Anyway, I think the ass't coach will be cleared.

    Parent

    Indeed, but (none / 0) (#148)
    by Zorba on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 04:57:42 PM EST
    if the pro sports (mainly the NFL and NBA) are profiting from the colleges' sports programs (and they are), and if the big-time sports colleges are making tons of money from their major sports programs, everyone needs to acknowledge this, and the players need to be paid.  
    Yes, yes, they get a scholarship which generally includes their room and board, as well as tuition.  But they need to get a salary on top of this, and people need to stop getting their panties in a wad when some of these players are "caught" selling jerseys, or accepting goods and services from alums, or whomever.  

    Parent
    You'll get no argument from me (5.00 / 1) (#153)
    by indy in sc on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 05:37:56 PM EST
    that the players should be paid.  The NCAA will take away a player's eligibility for accepting a pair of sneakers from a booster even though that same player makes untold sums for his school and for the NCAA.

    The NCAA laments the influence of boosters--pay the players and unscrupulous boosters won't have as much influence with them.

    Parent

    I agree, indy (none / 0) (#157)
    by Zorba on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 06:19:37 PM EST
    They're all basically hypocrites.  A whole lot of money is being made, and the players should have a share of this.  
    But the NCAA is still trying to maintain the fiction that college sports are pure and exist for the benefit of the so-called "student-athletes," the joy of the sports, and the alumni and fans.  It's all BS.

    Parent
    With all that we are learning.. (none / 0) (#186)
    by kdog on Fri Feb 01, 2013 at 09:41:46 AM EST
    about head trauma, it is even more imperative that the NCAA football players start getting paid, and receive lifetime health coverage.

    Or end the charade and create a minor league pro football system for ages 18-21 or something.

    Parent

    Indeed, but (none / 0) (#150)
    by Zorba on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 05:04:22 PM EST
    if the pro sports (mainly the NFL and NBA) are profiting from the colleges' sports programs (and they are), and if the big-time sports colleges are making tons of money from their major sports programs, everyone needs to acknowledge this, and the players need to be paid.  
    Yes, yes, they get a scholarship which generally includes their room and board, as well as tuition.  But they need to get a salary on top of this, and people need to stop getting their panties in a wad when some of these players are "caught" selling jerseys, or accepting goods and services from alums, or whomever.  

    Parent
    Sorry for the double post (none / 0) (#151)
    by Zorba on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 05:05:26 PM EST
    My internet connection got loopy.

    Parent
    A sports columnist in today's (none / 0) (#143)
    by caseyOR on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 03:25:08 PM EST
    Oregonian opined that Culliver may have simply blurted out that cr@p to get attention. Apparently, not long before he spewed that claptrap he was caught muttering "Cully in the house, too," when a reporter was talking with another 49er and seeming to ignore Culliver.

    Culliver might be a homophobic @sshole. He might be just an @sshole. Either way, he does the no good to the 49er organization.

    His remarks did cause his twitter traffic to skyrocket, though. Maybe Culliver is of the opinion that no publicity is bad publicity.

    Parent

    The Oregonian... (none / 0) (#163)
    by fishcamp on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 07:15:50 PM EST
    I used to deliver the Oregonian newspaper as a kid growing up in Portland.  It was hard work but I made money back then in the 50's...the good old days.  Lotta' rain though.

    Parent
    Mayber they will move on to Dan Marino's (none / 0) (#146)
    by ruffian on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 04:43:25 PM EST
    love child soon.

    Parent
    I'm sure you won't find (none / 0) (#152)
    by Anne on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 05:05:59 PM EST
    Dan Marino complaining about the attention being paid to Ray Lewis and Chris Culliver, lol...

    Parent
    All perfect examples (none / 0) (#165)
    by CoralGables on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 08:09:04 PM EST
    of why there shouldn't be a week off between the playoffs and the Super Bowl. Too many in the media with nothing to do but delve into things other than football with football players. Or in Marino's case ex-football players. No one wants to read about anything good and the low hanging bad fruit is irresistable.

    Parent
    UPDATE No. 2: It Gets Worse. (none / 0) (#176)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 09:31:53 PM EST
    Now San Francisco linebacker Ahmad Brooks and nose tackle Isaac Sopoaga have denied their participation in the team's much-lauded "It Gets Better" video last summer -- even though it's on, you know, video.

    Somewhere in New Orleans tonight, Jim Harbaugh has to be banging his head against a wall.

    Parent

    Crime and punishment news (5.00 / 1) (#122)
    by jbindc on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 09:44:32 AM EST
    Ruling gives Michigan inmate hope that her 2 decades behind bars could be coming to an end

    Last year, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that sentencing juveniles to a lifetime behind bars is cruel and unusual punishment, but the Michigan Court of Appeals said the decision was not retroactive and applies only to new cases.

    On Wednesday, a federal judge ruled the high court's decision is indeed retroactive, renewing hope for Pruitt and her fellow juvenile lifers. Judge John Corbett O'Meara said those imprisoned as children for life are eligible for parole, and to not allow it would create "an intolerable miscarriage of justice."

    The ruling gives ammunition to hundreds of defense attorneys statewide who are challenging the appeals court decision and are preparing to take their cases to circuit courts.

    I have met this defense attorney briefly and she is a fiery advocate.  Judge Mester (mentioned in the story) is a good man, and one of the better judges in this area.

    I hope this works out for Ms. Pruitt.

    Hmmm (5.00 / 2) (#138)
    by lentinel on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 01:52:22 PM EST
    This:

    "I always asked the question, is this going to be worth the sacrifice?" He said 1,200 American men and women lost their lives in the surge. "I'm not certain it was required."  
    - Mr. Hagel - today's confirmation hearing.

    Or this:

    I think that the surge has succeeded in ways that nobody anticipated," Obama told O'Reilly in an interview taped Thursday in York, PA. "It's succeeded beyond our wildest dreams."
    - Mr. Obama on Bill O'Reilly's show, 2008

    I think I'll go with Hagel on that.

    Today's important baseball birthdays. Jan. 31. (5.00 / 4) (#147)
    by caseyOR on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 04:50:23 PM EST
    In honor of the soon to begin new baseball season, today we celebrate the birthdays of baseball greats Jackie Robinson, Ernie Banks and Nolan Ryan. It is also the birthday of baseball fan caseyOR.

    Apparently, I was born to be a baseball fan.   :-)

    Happy birthday! (5.00 / 1) (#159)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 06:51:44 PM EST
    It's only two months to MLB's opening day. And further, it's only 16 days until your Oregon Ducks open the 2013 NCAA college baseball season out here with a four-game series against the University of Hawaii at Murakami Stadium on Feb. 15.

    Having been a former player myself, I'm a big college baseball aficionado, and we always go to opening day at UH, and this year will be no exception. It's even better when both teams are considered early favorites in their respective conferences, as Oregon and UH are this season.

    Have a wonderful evening. I hope you're doing something special.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    And it's only (5.00 / 1) (#160)
    by Zorba on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 07:05:29 PM EST
    eleven days until the first MLB pitchers and catchers report for Spring (well, they call it "Spring") Training.   ;-)

    Link.

    Parent

    Cubs pitchers and catchers report in (none / 0) (#170)
    by caseyOR on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 08:53:21 PM EST
    a scant two weeks. Yeah!!

    Parent
    You know, this year is gonna be (none / 0) (#171)
    by caseyOR on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 08:53:55 PM EST
    the Cubs year.  

    Parent
    Dream on, Casey (5.00 / 1) (#174)
    by Zorba on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 09:20:11 PM EST
    Dream on.   ;-)

    Parent
    Two weeks? (none / 0) (#172)
    by CoralGables on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 09:02:15 PM EST
    10 days!

    Cubs, RedSox, Indians, Rockies - Pitchers & Catchers Feb 10.

    Parent

    Like many, i associate baseball with sun (none / 0) (#168)
    by caseyOR on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 08:46:50 PM EST
    and warmth. And that is not what one gets with college ball in the Pac NW. It can be a cold and rainy time in the bleachers. And there is always the chance that games will get postponed because all the rain has flooded the field, created a mass of mud and destroyed any hint of the infield.

    Our usual baseball powerhouse is Oregon State. The Ducks have thrown a ton of money at the baseball program since restarting the program in 2007 (baseball was dropped in 1981). Said money has helped jumpstart the program.

    Still, when it comes to baseball I remain a Beavers loyalist.

    Parent

    When I played for Washington, the ... (none / 0) (#182)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Feb 01, 2013 at 01:37:03 AM EST
    ... major Pac-10 powers were all down south -- Arizona State, Arizona, USC, UCLA and Stanford. Up in the northwest, the primary baseball powers were Gonzaga and Lewis-Clark State over in Idaho.

    Hawaii was coached by the legendary Les Murakami at the time I was playing, and the Rainbows played in the WAC and were always a Top 10 team. My first trip ever to the islands was when we played a six-game series with Hawaii in 1980, which was my freshman year; we got swept by the 'Bows and only one game was even close. Hawaii went on to the College World Series in Omaha, where they lost the national championship final to Arizona.

    As for us UW Huskies, we won a grand total of 18 games that season. Coming from a high school program that was one of the best in the CIF-Southern Section (So. California), I found losing 3 out of every 4 games to be a sobering and humbling experience.

    Parent

    Happy, happy, (5.00 / 1) (#161)
    by Zorba on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 07:06:21 PM EST
    Happy Birthday!

    Parent
    Happy Birthday! n/t (5.00 / 1) (#164)
    by Yman on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 07:17:48 PM EST
    Thanks, Zorba and Yman. (5.00 / 2) (#169)
    by caseyOR on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 08:51:20 PM EST
    The other day someone asked me if this year was a "big" birthday, like turning 16 or 21 or 50. I replied that once one hits 60 every year is a "big" birthday.

    I am pretty reality-based when it comes to my age. Still, I find that sometimes I simply cannot believe that I am now in my 60s. That today I turned 61 seems a little dissonant. How did this happen?

    It is like I stopped paying attention and the next thing I knew I was getting senior discounts.

    Parent

    Tell me about it! (none / 0) (#175)
    by Zorba on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 09:23:37 PM EST
    I've been getting the Medicare info stuff, in advance of my upcoming 65th birthday!


    Parent
    Happy Birthday Captain... (5.00 / 1) (#187)
    by kdog on Fri Feb 01, 2013 at 09:43:31 AM EST
    I raise the rum to you this weekend....Arrgghhh! ;)

    Parent
    A very happy birthday (none / 0) (#154)
    by sj on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 05:56:11 PM EST
    to you!

    Parent
    Thank you, sj. n/t (none / 0) (#166)
    by caseyOR on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 08:36:20 PM EST
    Happy birthday, casey! (none / 0) (#155)
    by Anne on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 06:04:13 PM EST
    Hope you're having a great day, and that the year ahead is full of good health, good friends and lots of laughter!

    Parent
    Thanks, Anne. (5.00 / 1) (#167)
    by caseyOR on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 08:40:16 PM EST
    It has been a quiet day which has been great for me. Celebrating will happen this weekend.

    When I was younger I used to float right by the good health wishes. Now, I realize how important one's health is and gladly accept all such wishes.

    Parent

    Happy B-day (none / 0) (#177)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 09:48:51 PM EST
    Happy Birthday (none / 0) (#178)
    by MO Blue on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 10:21:03 PM EST
    Destiny!

    Have a great birthday and a fun season at the old ball park.

    Parent

    RIP, Caleb Moore (1987-2013). (5.00 / 1) (#162)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 07:12:26 PM EST
    The Winter X-Games competitor died this morning at a Grand Junction, CO hospital of attendant complications brought on by injuries suffered during the freestyle snowmobile competition last week in Aspen, when he lost control of his machine while attempting to pull it into an aerial backflip. Caleb Moore was only 25 years old.

    I love BTD's response (2.00 / 2) (#2)
    by Slado on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 09:16:48 AM EST
    If we just print and borrow more money (we've been doing so since 2007) things will get better.

    Sure despite all evidence to the contrary it will work this time.

    The good news is we don't have to fly across the Atlantic anymore to see Europe.

    We're already there.

    They are printing the money (5.00 / 3) (#9)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 09:32:05 AM EST
    Easing continues....doh!  We need to spend the money within the economy though, not just have banks gambling with it.  We need to make things and build things, that leads to paychecks given to people who go spend them.  Then you have things like economic multipliers go off....oh....and a little thing called demand.  All that generates tax revenues

    And if you don't like borrowing money from China to be able to have fire fighters right now, you could always do something crazy and extreme like make a major corporation pay the taxes it owes :)

    Parent

    You Can't Possibly Believe... (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 04:08:47 PM EST
    ...things are worse off now than in 2007.

    Please change the channel, Fox News is rotting your brain.  And yes, I know you don't watch Fox, but it's really just a figure of speech, you information network is faulty.

    Need I remind you how the Iraq war has been paid for.  Your 'print and borrow' method was used and that started years before 2007, funny how the right always seems to forgot about that.  Or how we got tax cuts at the same time we were printing and borrowing money and how related to that printing and borrowing.

    Parent

    If we're already there... (none / 0) (#10)
    by kdog on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 09:32:59 AM EST
    do I get 6 weeks vacation?

    Say what you will about Europe, but they go broke in style...we go broke like jerks defending Europe with our military.

    Parent

    Yes, and when do I get (none / 0) (#16)
    by KeysDan on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 10:09:24 AM EST
    my two-hour lunch break?

    Parent
    It's a rigged shell game (none / 0) (#50)
    by Dadler on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 12:09:05 PM EST
    Don't you get it?

    Seriously.

    Do you think money is a buffalo on the prairie? A swallow returning to Capistrano?

    Explain your strategy for ensuring that the money supply is able to offer enough people enough income to keep society from breaking apart? -- in an economy in which the biggest financial players, as you well know, have regulatory capture to the Nth degree.

    Do tell.

    My answer: in an economy in which you want to retain the ability of people to get wealthy though any number of means (i.e., in which you want to have no ceiling), and in which you don't want chaos and gross inequity to rip society apart, then you obviously focus on one thing...establishing and maintaining, first and foremost, an overly human and overly generous FLOOR that requires and PROVIDES work if necessary. Once you establish that as your focus, everything else becomes gravy. But without that floor, a society without a roof is nothing but collapse waiting to happen.  

    Parent

    It's a matter of what you think caused (none / 0) (#52)
    by Slado on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 12:26:04 PM EST
    the mess.

    I'd argue we need a strong federal government.

    Because we where the only ones that had one post WWII we prospered.

    Unfortunately we over did it.   We used our prosperity to garuntee theough federal handouts more then we could sustain.

    it took a while for this system to break down (60-70) years in fact but it has.

    Now instead of realizing we can't have it all we keep digging.  

    The feds are too immersed in too much and now they don't know what to do.    

    Yes cutting spending will hurt the economy.   But so will too much debt and overspending.   Too much government spending is crowding out private enterprise but private enterprise is too dependent on government spending.

    We can't throw the baby out with the bathwater so we are in this slow death spiral.

    What to do. What to do.

    Keep in mind the Feds are spending more as a percentage of GDP then ever before in non wartime and the Federal Reserve is printing money at an alarming rate.   And what do we get?  2% growth in 2012.

    Ask yourself.  What more can they do?   BTD says a lot more.   How?  

    Parent

    "federal handouts" (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by christinep on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 01:10:36 PM EST
    A giveaway about your underlying position, Slado. FTR, your comment makes an unsubstantiated leap on that subject with the assertion that a federal government cannot sustain unnamed benefit programs.  The sweeping claim adds little more than trumpeting a position that diminishes not only the role of government but also lessens the worth of the people.

    Parent
    You are too sensitive (none / 0) (#64)
    by Slado on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 01:29:13 PM EST
    Handouts come in many forms.

    I have no issue with the feds providing a safety net.

    I have an issue with my Dad ( a rich doctor) getting social security and medicare.

    My brother (mentaly handicapped since birth) is another matter.

    My problem is liberals is they like to pretend that all government spending is just and required.

    That simply isn't so and its not even important.

    We cannot continue to spend 40% more then we take in and we cannot make up the difference in taxes.

    We have to spend less.  

    Cut the military in half for all I care but cut something.

    Otherwise we're doomed.

    Parent

    About Social Security, for instance.... (5.00 / 2) (#71)
    by christinep on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 01:44:59 PM EST
    Referencing a wealth/worth-based approach to determing who would qualify for Social Secuirty --as one example in your comment above indicates-- leads to the obvious question about Where Would You Draw the Line??? That approach, IMO, would create a conundrum in drawing an equitable line AND it would further divide "haves" & "have nots" by officially structuring earned benefits based upon $$$ CLASS.

    No, I'm not too "sensitive" in these matters.  What does cause me to respond to broad assumptions, claims without substantiation, etc. is that such claims tend to be repeated and to spread.  Witness your new comment: The assertions about being "doomed" if we don't immediately fix everything that it took years of war coupled with reduced taxes to fulminate are emotional claims.  Yes, some believe that ... most notably, the more conservative elements of our present society.  And, others find that the sky-is-falling economics to be rather hyperbolic.  For the latter, see any number of related columns by economics Nobelist Paul Krugman.  

    Parent

    Your perspective might be different if (5.00 / 4) (#80)
    by vicndabx on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 02:18:16 PM EST
    you did not have:

    my Dad ( a rich doctor)


    Parent
    Fair enough (none / 0) (#128)
    by Slado on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 11:07:11 AM EST
    You are probably right.

    But the funny thing about Math is it doesn't care who you are.

    40% in deficit spending is unsustainable and -.1% GDP growth isn't going to make up the difference.

    This is what amuses me about the "fair" argument.   You can pretend spending isn't the issue but Math doesn't listen, doesn't care and isn't going to change the rules for you.

    We are broke.   We are 4 years into the deficit spending program and it's not working.

    When will it work?   Never.

    When will democrats stop blaming Republicans and realize that the theory is wrong.   It's not like we don't have lots of examples...

    California
    Illinois
    Europe
    Japan
    now the USA

    But I'm to sit here and listen to this argument over and over again that if we just let the government spend more it will turn around.

    We now spend 1.5 Trillion more now then we did in 2007.

    What do we have to show for it?

    .1% growth

    Keep calling names and pointing fingers but Obama's plan isn't working and it won't work because Math says so.

    Parent

    We didn't actually have -.1% GDP Growth (none / 0) (#137)
    by vicndabx on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 12:42:06 PM EST
    We had, for 2012, 2.2%+ GDP Growth, up from 1.8% in 2011.  Argue that's not enough, but at least argue using the facts.

    Parent
    Indeed they do... (none / 0) (#72)
    by kdog on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 01:45:03 PM EST
    the military industrial complex handouts for weapons we don't need, occupations and other foreign adventures in Empire.  The prison industrial complex handouts for cages we should not be placing human beings in, the farm subsidy hand-outs for big agri-business, the prescription drug handouts to big-pharma...and on and on and on.  

    Well worth a hit to the economy now to get rid of all that bad news, pardon the caps but SPENDING CAUSING ACTUAL DIRECT HARM TO THE PEOPLE!!!  

    Parent

    Amen brother (none / 0) (#130)
    by Slado on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 11:11:42 AM EST
    The problem is the feds have made too many promises and your special interest is another man's sacred cow.

    Cut is all by 25% or have a serious discussion about trimming the fat.

    Problems

    1. People like BTD and the Krguman crowd think we can borrow/print our way out of this.  The WH and most democrats agree despite the mountains of evidence to the contrary.
    2. No one in Washington will ever agree to trim the fat
    3. Americans are selfish and like the idea of their benefits and cutting someone else's

    Its a mess and I now don't see it being fixed until the economy crashes again.

    Buy Gold.

    Parent

    F*ck gold... (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by kdog on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 11:19:29 AM EST
    aside from it's practical uses as a metal, it's as worthless as money.  Silver is more "valuable", it's a better conductor.

    Buy food, buy cattle, buy seeds!

    Parent

    OT: did you catch this? (none / 0) (#134)
    by oculus on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 11:53:41 AM EST
    Cool... (none / 0) (#139)
    by kdog on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 02:07:22 PM EST
    nice call Court of Appeals.

    One good news ruling deserves another, lets hear it for the Honorable Judge Lopez laying the smackdown on NYPD entrapment!

    Always good to remember the system works once in a blue moon;)

    Parent

    Huh? (5.00 / 2) (#106)
    by unitron on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 10:20:15 PM EST

    "Too much government spending is crowding out private enterprise but private enterprise is too dependent on government spending."

    Crowding private enterprise out of what?

    And where else would government spending go if not to private enterprise?

    Parent

    Conscious and determined ignorance (none / 0) (#119)
    by sj on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 09:16:02 AM EST
    What more can they do?   BTD says a lot more.   How?  
    It takes a lot of effort to pretend, as you do, as though that question has never been addressed.  Most commenters here are not as ignorant as you are determined to be.  

    Parent
    Judge speaks out on federal drug sentences (none / 0) (#1)
    by Reconstructionist on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 08:58:13 AM EST
      This memorandum from Judge Gleeson of the EDNY  dissects the federal sentencing guidelines for drug traffickng offense and strongly attacks the very structure. Definitely worth the time to read if you handle such cases-- or just want an insightful critique.

    Diaz

    We have a six year old hostage situation (none / 0) (#4)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 09:26:45 AM EST
    here.  Started yesterday on a bus taking children home. A man who has neighbors who say that he listens to too much talk radio and fears the government is out to get him boarded a school bus dropping off children and demanded the children between six and eight be given to him.  The bus driver did what he could, lost his life too.  The man then took a six year old hostage, took the child to his small underground bunker.  Thankfully the police were there in minutes and his neighbor knew about the bunker.  They have been communicating with him through a PVC pipe to the bunker and the FBI is there now.

    I am so frustrated, after Sandy Hook my daughter began talking about homeschooling my oldest granddaughter who is due to go to kindergarten next year.  Now this!  The plan was that she would never be on a bus though ever and I keep pushing that.  We would rather that Josh not ride a bus, so what is one more child to pick up and drop off in a smallish town?  My granddaughter wants to go to school so badly.  She has been with me several times in Josh's classroom for different things and she just can't wait to go.  And now this

    One question in my mind though this morning, how come when any of these crazy people with guns and chaos plans have a political affiliation lately it is Conservative?  And West Point has a new paper titled "Challengers from the Sidelines: Understanding America's Violent Far-Right."

    ... did you know that it was a capital offense in Georgia for a Latino to accidentally pull into the wrong driveway at night while dropping someone off? I know I sure didn't.

    But a 69-year-old wingbat named Phillip Sailors apparently thought so, and as a result, 22-year-Rodrigo Diaz is dead -- having been shot in the head by Sailors while trying to drop off his girlfriend at what they both thought was her friend's house in the Atlanta suburb of Lilburn. Sailors' attorney says that his client feared a home invasion.

    Guns don't kill people -- paranoid right-wing talkshow addicts with guns do. But I suppose we should be grateful for small favors, because according the Sailors' attorney, "the Sailors family is grief-stricken and is lifting the family of Diaz up in prayer."

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Donald, a sad (1.00 / 2) (#109)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 11:21:16 PM EST
    situation...

    But do you think the criminals who actually invade homes have a wee bit to do with this??

    Parent

    Read the article, Jim. (5.00 / 2) (#113)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 12:35:58 AM EST
    The police chief himself said that there was no crime wave or epidemic of home invasions in his town.

    That old man is a delusional paranoid -- and a dangerous one at that. And now an innocent young man is dead, because Gramps prefers living in Radio Nowhere's parallel universe, where white people are always the victims, and everyone of color is either an illegal immigrant or a criminal suspect or a drug addict or on welfare or (a) and (b) only or all of the above.

    You want to believe your own bull$H!+ and live as a love slave to your own fearmongering ghosts, then by all means, knock yourself out.

    But please be advised that living in a dream world -- even if that dream is your own self-manufactured nightmare -- is not without its own perils and consequences. And if you allow your otherworldly delusions to dictate your actions back here on Planet Earth and someone gets hurt or worse as a result, then a very real hammer is going to drop on you.

    Parent

    Donald, we both know that (1.00 / 1) (#116)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 07:57:17 AM EST
    home invasions exists and are reported on the news. NATIONAL news.

    And what, pray tell, is an "epidemic?" More than 1 and less than a 100?

    The elderly man would have known about them if talk radio didn't exist.

    But instead of admitting that it is criminals breaking into homes and creating the climate of fear you make an insulting remark about "Gramps."

    Why, Donald? Is your personal life such that you must attack someone? Does it make you feel a big man??

    You have no idea as to the politics of the man. You have no reason to attack him because of what you assume to be his politics.

    According to Puglise, Sailors grabbed his gun as he headed outside, firing a warning shot into the air. He said he fired at Diaz only after Diaz accelerated his car toward him.

    "He thought he was going to get run down," the lawyer said.

    Now the police disagree. Who's telling the truth? I don't know. You don't know. Is it okay with you if they have a trial and look for the facts??

    You know, I think you are a bully. After reading your comments for a long time that is the only conclusion I can come to.

    Parent

    I've never understood the need (5.00 / 1) (#120)
    by sj on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 09:21:32 AM EST
    to justify outright foolishness.  Just because a gun was used, all sorts of pretzel logic is thrown out there.  Some people -- like you -- just can't admit that the some other people -- like this guy -- behaved wrongly.  It's not amusing.  These foolish people live in the same world as sane people do.  And in their paranoia, they're a danger to themselves and others.

    Parent
    sj, don't put words in my mouth (none / 0) (#179)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 11:39:54 PM EST
    Go back and read what I wrote.

    I don't know what happened. You don't know what happened.

    I just object to the overall nastiness of Donald's comment.

    Nether of you have no knowledge of the man's past experiences.

    We do know that the town ain't the picture of sweetness and love the police paints.... Or did you even bother to read the information I linked to?

    Why don't we have a trial and find out??

    Parent

    You tell us we have no (none / 0) (#181)
    by sj on Fri Feb 01, 2013 at 12:57:37 AM EST
    knowledge of the man's past experience all while going on about a "climate of fear".  You reserve all judgements for yourself and then sanctimoniously scold everyone else.  It's more than tiresome.  You object to everyone's "overall nastiness".  You go out of your way to incite the "nastiness" so that you can then judge it.

    Like I said.  Beyond tiresome.

    Parent

    sj, you do it again (2.00 / 1) (#184)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Feb 01, 2013 at 08:58:43 AM EST
    I never mentioned a "climate of fear."

    My comments were fact based with links to show the crime rate

    And I was responding to Donald.

    I judged no one. My comment was "I don't know. You don't know."

    Tiresome? Yes your attacks are.

    Parent

    Uh, yes you did - "climate of fear" (5.00 / 2) (#185)
    by Anne on Fri Feb 01, 2013 at 09:14:15 AM EST
    are the exact words you used, jim - do you not read your own comments as you go along?

    Here's the thing: I don't think you ought to be judging the reading comprehension skills of others until your own are in better shape.  And if you don't like the tone and tenor of the comments coming your way, you might want to consider that it probably has to do with the frustration of constantly having our words twisted to suit whatever argument you're trying to have; I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't find that an honest way to debate anything.

    Parent

    Heh (1.00 / 1) (#191)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 11:19:02 AM EST
    What I wrote was:

    But instead of admitting that it is criminals breaking into homes and creating the climate of fear you make an insulting remark about "Gramps."

    Here's the claim:

    You tell us we have no (none / 0) (#181)
    by sj on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 11:57:37 PM CST
    knowledge of the man's past experience all while going on about a "climate of fear".

    sj's comment was/is totally out of context.

    So I didn't say what h/she says.

    Maybe I wasn't clear enough.

    As for you, I'll try to be clearer.

    My point to Donald was that he was attacking with no information.

    I provided additional information.

    sj jumped in and rather than debate the subject, decided to attack me and the man in question.

    Some people -- like you -- just can't admit that the some other people -- like this guy -- behaved wrongly.  It's not amusing.  These foolish people live in the same world as sane people do.  And in their paranoia, they're a danger to themselves and others.

    My point was/is and will be:

    Nether of you have no knowledge of the man's past experiences.

    We do know that the town ain't the picture of sweetness and love the police paints.... Or did you even bother to read the information I linked to?

    Why don't we have a trial and find out??

    And I don't care what you think. But I ain't gonna let you, Donald or sj beat on me.

    Parent

    Ahhhh, ... so when YOU say something (5.00 / 1) (#195)
    by Yman on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 10:23:19 AM EST
    ... there's a context to it that needs to be clear to understand its correct meaning.  But when you used clipped quotes from climatologists or tabloid articles misquoting them (as pointed out by the scientists themselves), the standard response is "He said what he said."

    Heh.

    BTW - You said "I never mentioned a "climate of fear.""

    Of course, in reality ... you absolutely did.

    Parent

    Like I said (none / 0) (#192)
    by sj on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 08:49:28 PM EST
    Twisting yourself into pretzel logic.  If you want to twist yourself into a pretzel I recommend yoga.  It's good for the body as opposed to bad for the mind.

    Parent
    Moreover (none / 0) (#193)
    by sj on Sat Feb 02, 2013 at 08:56:32 PM EST
    He lived through any "past experiences".  His victim doesn't get any more experiences.  

    In any case, the man's "past experiences" aren't nearly as relevant as present behavior.  A position I'm sure you would be taking if the gun-packing lunatic in question was a junkie.  Both are a danger to themselves and others.

    Parent

    The facts are that you are (none / 0) (#194)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 08:30:21 AM EST
    biased against this man because he used a gun.

    What else do we know? From the article Donald provided:

    Sailors' friends and family said instead that the retired BellSouth employee is a dedicated volunteer at his church and has been on mission trips to Panama and other Latin American countries.
    Chris Anderson, pastor of Killian Hill Baptist Church in Lilburn, called Sailors "a good man who devoted his life to serving others, and his reputation in our community has been unblemished for over 40 years."

    You have nothing that contradicts that. Plus, despite what the police said:

    Sailors and his wife, Brenda, were at their home on Hillcrest Road when they heard a "ruckus" in the driveway, said attorney Mike Puglise. A neighbor had recently been robbed and Sailors was wary when he spotted two people in his driveway getting into their car.
    According to Puglise, Sailors grabbed his gun as he headed outside, firing a warning shot into the air. He said he fired at Diaz only after Diaz accelerated his car toward him.
    "He thought he was going to get run down," the lawyer said.

    Now, as I have said three times.

    Neither you or me or Donald know what happened.

    So what do you and Donald do? Condemn me and the old man.

    What do I do? I say:



    Why don't we have a trial and find out??

    Who is the reasonable person here?

    Parent

    No one is saying we ... (5.00 / 1) (#196)
    by Yman on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 10:32:01 AM EST
    ... shouldn't have a trial, Jim.  We're just laughing at your sudden respect for the criminal justice process when the defendant is someone you sympathize with.

    Then there's always what the police found:

    According to Puglise, Sailors grabbed his gun as he headed outside, firing a warning shot into the air. He said he fired at Diaz only after Diaz accelerated his car toward him.

    "He thought he was going to get run down," the lawyer said.

    But the police report indicates that the vehicle was leaving Sailors' property when Diaz was shot. Lilburn police said they found his red Mitsubishi at the end of the driveway. Diaz was slumped over the steering wheel, blood covering his face and, the incident report states, struggling to breathe.

    Parent

    Exactly, thank you (none / 0) (#197)
    by sj on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 07:22:14 PM EST
    And I still say a danger to himself and others.  "Firing a warning shot into the air" is foolish and dangerous.  Those bullets don't stay in the air.  Wouldn't that be taught in gun safety class?

    Parent
    I say the reasonable person (none / 0) (#198)
    by sj on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 07:28:25 PM EST
    is not the one who denies his own words.  And then twist himself into knots to pretend... I don't know what.  Maybe some people enjoy conversations in the verbal quicksand you produce, but your obvious dishonesty makes me wonder who.

    For example, if you're going to quote this:

    A neighbor had recently been robbed and Sailors was wary when he spotted two people in his driveway getting into their car.
    You might want to honestly also quote this:
    Hedley said claims of heavy gang activity in the area are false.

    "There's a sampling of crime in their neighborhood, but no more than anywhere else," he said.



    Parent
    sj, this is a "nested thread" (1.00 / 1) (#200)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Feb 04, 2013 at 09:57:34 AM EST
    Similar to Instant Messaging.

    1. I provided a link that shows that the town has a crime rate worse than 96% of the rest of the country.

    2. Donald provided a link that anyone could read.

    3. My comment was taken out of context. You and I know that. So do others. Why don't you just give that false attack up??

    My point was and is.... why don't we have a trial and find out what happened??

    But you don't seem to want that.

    I wonder why you are afraid of letting the justice system work.

    Parent

    If you expect your (5.00 / 1) (#199)
    by sj on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 07:32:20 PM EST
    "conversation" to remain with Donald then handle it over email (if Donald is foolish enough to give it to you).  Otherwise, it's time you understood that making a comment on a public forum makes it a public comment.  That means it is open to the public.  I suggest reading the comments sometime to see how it works.

    And you judge everyone.  You judge the commenters and judge the principles in any event.  Again reading your public comments makes this clear.

    Parent

    Just because a comment is public (1.00 / 1) (#201)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Feb 04, 2013 at 10:03:07 AM EST
    doesn't mean that the commentator has to accept a few words being taken out of context and used to change the meaning of what he wrote.

    Did I judge Donald? Based on what he has written, yes.

    Did I judge you? Based on what you wrote, yes.

    Have you judge me? Yes. And I have pointed out the errors in your judgement.

    Again. Donald attacked this man as a right winger hopped up on talk radio. He had no information supporting that. You attacked me because you want all guns banned and I oppose that.

    Truth be truth.

    Parent

    Here are some facts, Donald (1.00 / 1) (#118)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 08:24:45 AM EST
    Lilburn is a burb of Atlanta. It is served by the media outlets of Atlanta.

    Think they never report crime???

    Now, how safe is Lilburn?

    Well it is LESS safe than 96% of the cities in the US and has a higher crime rate than the state of GA.

    Parent

    Holey moley, MT (none / 0) (#12)
    by sj on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 09:57:01 AM EST
    I hadn't heard about this.

    Parent
    Depressing (none / 0) (#15)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 10:03:38 AM EST
    And my daughter didn't sleep all night thinking about it.  They fear he has a lot of food down there, but from neighbor reports the bunker sounds very small.  At least it was the last time his neighbor saw it. How long can he stay down there?  The child is reported to have autism, they did send medication down the pipe for him.

    Parent
    MT (none / 0) (#19)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 10:17:47 AM EST
    Ga6thDem and I were wondering last night how close you are to Midland City.

    Also, your last line suggests the hostage is a male. I thought he wanted both a male and female hostage, but after shooting the driver took just a female hostage.

    Parent

    They have decided now to close all (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 11:04:49 AM EST
    Dale CO schools for the rest of the week.  You should read some local facebook down here.  There are some people who live here who are beginning to talk like a few bleeding heart no more gun violence liberals on Talkleft.  I'm seriously shocked.  I'm taking names so we can go have coffee together.

    Parent
    Just wait (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by Yman on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 11:49:19 AM EST
    Soon enough you'll have the 2A conspiracy-nuts claiming it's just part of some false-flag gun grab by Obama - just like they did with Sandy Hook.

    But I hope it's having the effect you're talking about ....

    Parent

    Coffee Co has two Ft Rucker gates (none / 0) (#21)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 10:30:00 AM EST
    And Dale Co has two.  My daughter has started house shopping and she looked at few houses in the Midland City area.  She does not like the area, they want to live more towards Enterprise.  Everyone is very spread out here, even on the country roads it is mostly roadside houses with large land plots now verses smaller plots of land in town.  Enterprise thought about closing schools today over the situation because some people have family in Dale Co and might be stressed but they instead chose to talk about it this morning in the announcements and observed  a moment of silence for those who had prayers or meditations.

    That tornado front is marching in though, and they have announced that school is closing in Enterprise at 12:30, we are expecting some tornado weather.  For those sitting watch on the bunker it could get really crappy out there if they can't get him out before that.

    There is some confusion right now as to whether or not he asked for all the children between 6 and 8 or two children between those ages.  Differing witnesses.  They have not officially named the child, but the neighbors have said that they believe it is a little boy named Ethan.

    Parent

    And now some very heavily armed (none / 0) (#37)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 11:34:50 AM EST
    vehicle has shown up on the scene, some think it has to do with bomb containment but who knows?  Law enforcement not talking.  FBI and SWAT have officially taken over command of the situation though and maybe they called it in simply to cover all their bases.

    Parent
    MT how close physically is all this (none / 0) (#46)
    by sj on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 11:53:14 AM EST
    to where you are?  It sounds like it's happening right on top of you...

    Parent
    Facebook (none / 0) (#47)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 11:58:31 AM EST
    It's about 15 miles as the crow flies.

    Parent
    Or in your case (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 12:05:27 PM EST
    15 miles as the war eagle flies

    Parent
    Could we find books... (none / 0) (#6)
    by kdog on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 09:28:40 AM EST
    to cover that kinda action if we spread it around?

    Only half kidding, of all the long-term economic propsals I've heard, double or nothing on the Super Bowl may be better than most.  But I think we put half the debt on Ravens +4 and the other half on the Ravens money line, if we sweep we're back in the black! And if we lose both, we can always go back to the minting platinum trillion dollar coins idea.

    Do you think the mgt. at Alice Tully Hall (none / 0) (#11)
    by oculus on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 09:50:43 AM EST
    will provide Super Bowl updates during Sunday's Ian Bostridge recital?

    Parent
    Nah... (none / 0) (#14)
    by kdog on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 10:00:01 AM EST
    I think those attending the recital are doing so, in part, to escape the Super Bowl;)

    Parent
    William "Mo" Cowan (none / 0) (#7)
    by jbindc on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 09:29:16 AM EST
    Never heard of him. (none / 0) (#89)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 04:14:09 PM EST
    But it sounds like he's one of the governor's cronies, so he must be good.
    :-D

    Parent
    HIs Former (none / 0) (#92)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 04:43:29 PM EST
    chief-of-staff.

    It's only for a couple months. Pretty meaningless in the big picture.

    Parent

    Except for (none / 0) (#95)
    by jbindc on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 05:04:03 PM EST
    Big bills coming down the pike - immigration, debt ceiling, and if the overturning of Obama's recess appointments stays put, he will be involved in all that mess - voting on appointees, etc.

    I'm sure he'll toe the party line and not make waves

    Parent

    I suppose that I probably shouldn't ... (none / 0) (#98)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 06:03:46 PM EST
    ... have used that particular term, "one of the governor's cronies." Wouldn't you know it, but about 20 minutes ago here at our own State Capitol, Yours Truly just heard that exact phrase used by one of our dissident Democratic State House members in a not-so-thinly-veiled reference to -- Yours Truly.

    That's funny, because I really don't feel like a crony -- besides, where are my crony benefits? I mean, what's the point of being a political crony of the governor if you aren't deriving any personal benefit, right?

    There's really no political battle quite so unenjoyable as an internecine (intra-party) political battle, and the random sniper fire being shot in my direction is becoming a drag -- particularly since the person who used that phrase is someone who I was helping in his re-election campaign only three short months ago. Phuquin' ingrate.

    To be honest, I'm now officially regretting having agreed to accept this position a few weeks ago. The end of the legislative session on May 9 can't come soon enough for me.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Numbers must be bad... (none / 0) (#13)
    by kdog on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 09:59:01 AM EST
    a new low as banksters @ Citizens Bank resorted to accusing a man of passing counterfeit bills to part him from his paycheck.  Luckily the attempt was foiled by media outcry, and the bills were confirmed legitimate by the Secret Service.

    "Honest mistake" my arse...

    Who ARE these people? (none / 0) (#17)
    by sj on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 10:10:01 AM EST
    the cash turned out to be older money that they had not seen in a while.
    This is at a bank! Who is training their tellers?  Not the bank, that's for sure.  

    Parent
    Not for nuthin'... (none / 0) (#18)
    by kdog on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 10:12:57 AM EST
    the old hundos look more "real" to me than the new ones, I'm always giving the new fifties and hundos a double take.

    Maybe its just another arm-twisting scheme to get everybody on direct deposit.

    Parent

    I agree with you (none / 0) (#20)
    by sj on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 10:17:56 AM EST
    The new currency looks like cartoon money.

    Parent
    OT. But I thought of you yesterday. (none / 0) (#22)
    by oculus on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 10:41:23 AM EST
    Two women are sitting on the wall around the Bethesda fountain in Central Park. A male jogger does a u-turn to ask the woman who is smoking if she is aware no smoking is permitted in the park. She replies, Yes, I'm aware."  Jogger resumes his run. She continues smoking.

    Parent
    There's really no smoking in Central Park? (none / 0) (#23)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 10:51:58 AM EST
    Sort of fascinates me.  It can't be a secondhand smoke thing.  It has to be a cig butt litter thing.  Not that I'm for smoking, but it can't be an air pollution issue :)

    Parent
    Oh there is smoking... (5.00 / 2) (#36)
    by kdog on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 11:31:44 AM EST
    in Central Park, it's just illegal now, just like the "other" smoking in Central Park;)

    Criminals love company, and we've got more company every day...like these fine folks in Indiana.

    Parent

    I was thinking (none / 0) (#39)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 11:37:32 AM EST
    I can get high in Central Park, I can get laid in Central Park...how do you ban smoking :)?  Why do you ban smoking :)?

    Parent
    Well (none / 0) (#40)
    by jbindc on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 11:38:36 AM EST
    Both of those activities are also illegal in Central Park (and most every public place as well).

    :)

    Parent

    After a bit though (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 11:40:55 AM EST
    And considering how sanitized Central Park is now, this just looks like overlords creating revenue stream :)

    Parent
    As opposed to days of yore, walking through the (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by oculus on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 02:09:55 PM EST
    park solo during the day is now a joy.  

    Parent
    Not for me... (none / 0) (#79)
    by kdog on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 02:13:05 PM EST
    I miss old NYC when you had to watch your back for muggers instead of the police.  The mugger was only after your wallet, the police are after something much more precious.

    Parent
    Oddly enough... (none / 0) (#77)
    by kdog on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 02:09:21 PM EST
    the ban is not enforced, I don't think there was been one ticket/summons issued since the ban was enacted.  There was one guy who tried to force a cop to ticket him in an act of civil disobedience, but even then no dice.

    This doozy might be Bloomberg real deal true believer nannystate sh*t, not a ruse for revenue...for once.

    Parent

    Okay, that's an (none / 0) (#24)
    by sj on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 10:53:12 AM EST
    image that cracks me up.  Not sure exactly why you thought of me but... I'm okay with that :)

    Parent
    Actually, it was kdog.I thought of! (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by oculus on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 10:55:23 AM EST
    shucks (none / 0) (#26)
    by sj on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 11:01:16 AM EST
    Now I'm all deflated :)

    Parent
    When I think of Cleo I think of you! (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by oculus on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 11:12:49 AM EST
    I like her... (none / 0) (#27)
    by kdog on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 11:02:12 AM EST
    invite her to the Mayall show!  F*ckin' joggin' busybodies;)

    I think you're booked this Saturday, but just in case there is a recession special that goes nicely with the GDP report.  The swinging big band blues stylings of "Roomfull of Blues", and 2 hours of open bar, out in Patchogue for the low low price of 20 bucks.  Never heard of these guys but a buddy of mine says very good things.  I repeat, 2 hours open bar!

    Parent

    Oh, too bad. I'll be hrs. all Beethoven (none / 0) (#29)
    by oculus on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 11:11:20 AM EST
    w/my college friend from NJ.

    Couldn't the jogger have made a citizen's arrest or something?  One of those nets some law enforcement officers are urged to use instead of taser?

    Parent

    All the jogger could make... (none / 0) (#33)
    by kdog on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 11:26:05 AM EST
    is a citizens arse of himself, which he did.

    Parent
    And then she stubbed out her cig. (none / 0) (#35)
    by oculus on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 11:29:29 AM EST
    on the flagstone.

    Parent
    BTW: big crowd waiting to (none / 0) (#31)
    by oculus on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 11:18:15 AM EST
    get into theatre last night for Barry Manilow. My choice was Edward Albee though.

    Parent
    I'm confused... (none / 0) (#38)
    by unitron on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 11:35:51 AM EST
    ...he cashes his paycheck at one bank, presumably the one on which it is drawn, and then deposits the cash in the bank in which he himself has an account.

    Why not just deposit the paycheck into his account at his own bank?

    Or has my decade and a half with a credit union left me spoiled and unaware of the kind of games one has to play these days to keep for-profit banks from screwing one over every chance they get?

    Parent

    If you don't trust (5.00 / 2) (#43)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 11:48:06 AM EST
    the person that gave you the check, always cash quickly at the bank it was drawn. No risk of a bank charge if the check is no good and it's cashed before anyone can stop payment.

    Also, the funds are immediately available when you deposit cash but a hold is often placed on checks from other banks until they clear.

    Parent

    Okay, now I have had... (none / 0) (#49)
    by unitron on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 12:06:59 PM EST
    ...bosses like that in the past.

    Parent
    Who knows... (none / 0) (#42)
    by kdog on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 11:43:01 AM EST
    but judging by one of the married guys I work with, he cashes his check at the bossman's bank and then deposits cash at his bank, so he can pocket a few bucks of his overtime without his wife knowing about it;)

    Could very well be to avoid some kind of fees though, too true about for-profit banks.

    Parent

    49ers over the Ravens????? (none / 0) (#32)
    by Chuck0 on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 11:22:52 AM EST
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

    Surely you jest. Ravens by 10.

    If the 49ers bring their "A-Game," ... (none / 0) (#90)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 04:31:45 PM EST
    ... I think they could very well prevail if they can keep it close, i.e., trailing by a TD or less entering the 4th, so don't count your chickens just yet.

    However -- there's always a caveat, isn't there? -- if San Francisco plays like they did during the first 20 minutes in Atlanta last week, and they fall behind big early, there will be no big comeback on their part this time. Baltimore has more than enough horses on both offense and defense to put this one to bed early, and the result will probably mirror what Seattle did against the Niners last December.

    I left my heart in San Francisco, but my head's saying it's Baltimore -- Ravens 28, 49ers 17.

    Parent

    Demographics of OWS protestors (none / 0) (#53)
    by jbindc on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 12:34:10 PM EST
    Problem with WH and BTD spin (none / 0) (#54)
    by Slado on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 12:36:08 PM EST
    Federal Outlays where up in the 4th quarter

    Now what's their excuse?

    4th Quarter GDP (none / 0) (#55)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 12:50:31 PM EST
    not nearly as bad as perceived. The majority of the drag was from reduced defense spending due to less war expense. That's a good thing. The other drag was reduced inventories caused by an increase in consumer spending. That's a good long term sign.

    The stock market's reaction? Down early with the initial report and now back to even after the reasons were digested.

    Spin, spin, spin (1.00 / 1) (#61)
    by Slado on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 01:23:52 PM EST
    Outlays for the Feds where up in the 4th qtr as opposed to the 3rd qtr.

    Now dems are sad we aren't spending more on defense?

    Look the simple truty is this economy is only limping along because the Feds are running a 40% deficit and printing money like crazy.

    It's not sustainable.   It's only masking the fact that our economy sucks.

    Parent

    And above (5.00 / 2) (#68)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 01:37:30 PM EST
    you link to Breitbart to support your beliefs.

    That's pretty damn funny.

    But you won't hear me complaining about less being spent on wars. I'd much prefer it be spent on infrastructure improvements at home.

    Parent

    That's the problem: the money that (5.00 / 3) (#70)
    by Anne on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 01:43:28 PM EST
    isn't being spent on defense isn't being reallocated somewhere else, it's just being subtracted from the economy.

    The bigger problem is that the austerity freaks and the deficit hysterics think that's a good thing, and history and experience tell us that, no, it's really not.

    Parent

    But we're still spending more (none / 0) (#74)
    by Slado on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 01:50:49 PM EST
    So your argument is more defense spending leads to higher economic output?

    Better tell Chuck Hagel and the president that.

    Parent

    Money spent on solid, well paid jobs (none / 0) (#91)
    by ruffian on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 04:40:17 PM EST
    which much of defense spending is, leads to higher economic output. I'd gladly see that money spent on something else that creates good jobs.

    Parent
    We still spend more (none / 0) (#75)
    by Slado on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 01:51:32 PM EST
    We're still running a 40% deficit.

    Hardly "Austerity"

    Parent

    You seem to like analogies, Slado (5.00 / 4) (#101)
    by NYShooter on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 07:13:44 PM EST
    So, here's another one: A man shoots a boy's mother and father, and then bemoans the idea that we have too many orphans.

     Look, you're a smart guy, and I mean that. But, what I don't understand is whether you really are searching for solutions, or just propagating an immovable political concept?

    You say, "we're running 40% deficits," and immediately conclude that "too much spending" is the villain. But, when numerous posters give you numerous explanations you, reflexively, turn on your "PPJim, Fact Deflector" and move on to another right wing slogan.

    Anyway, just so I know whether engaging you in the future regarding the economy has a chance of being productive, will you answer this one question for me? Do you believe that our economy should be based on the notion that our country is best served, and that it approaches the lofty ideals expressed by our founders, when it is structured in such a way that everyone enjoys its fruits proportionately? Or, do you believe that it should be based on the notion that, "to the Victor belong the spoils?"

    Both have merit, and both could be successful, but a Government (through its citizens) must make a choice. Democrats, basically, would choose the first, Republicans, the second. Which would be yours?


    Parent

    Shooter (none / 0) (#111)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 11:31:06 PM EST
     "turn on your "PPJim, Fact Deflector" and move on to another right wing slogan."

    I was hopeful that living in Nashville would help you but I see that it has not.

    Once you best a Yankee they complain forever..

    ;-)

    Parent

    Now, Jim (5.00 / 2) (#112)
    by NYShooter on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 12:18:44 AM EST
    It was said with nothing but love in my heart. Now, you can believe it, or not, but I believe that good natured ribbing at the expense of a friend (and, I do think of you as a friend. No, really) is a high form of flattery.

    Wow, I just thought of something. I've got a friend up in NY that I've put in my "best friend" category that has been a best `bud" for fifty + - years.  And, listen to this, he's more anti-Obama, anti-climate change, anti- welfare, and anti- everything that I believe is great about America than you could ever dream of. If you ever met him (and you just might as he's fix'n to move down here) you'd immediately think, "Soul-Brother," where have you been all my life?" No kidding.

    But, the point is, I dump on him mercilessly. If I ever said anything nice about him (and he was within earshot) he's do the big, "I'm coming, Lord!" Seriously.

    So, it's all context, Jim. I can like you, and still do the old finger "rabbit-ears" behind your head, know what I mean?

    So, ask "Edith," or whatever the angel who you suckered into marrying you name is, to get you a flashlight so you can go out and find a sense of humor.

    Nitey, nite, Jim..........burp.


    Parent

    shooter (1.00 / 1) (#115)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 07:39:16 AM EST
    You have went out of your way to be offensive.

    Your comments are the comments of a bully.

    And we both know that.

    Parent

    "You have went" (none / 0) (#129)
    by shoephone on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 11:10:55 AM EST
    Is that Southern-fried grammar?

    Parent
    now, that's just plain unfair (none / 0) (#132)
    by NYShooter on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 11:34:53 AM EST
    and very, very Southern inhospitable

    1. "You have went out of your way to be offensive."

    I did not go out of my way to be offensive; I went straight as an arrow to be offensive

    2. "Your comments are the comments of a bully."

          My comments are not the comments of a bully; they are the comments of an offensive NYC Yankee.

    3. "And we both know that."

     Now we do.

    And now, see how much fun two good southern friends can have. I'm not kidding, Jim. Tell me we're good southern friends.


    Parent

    shooter (1.00 / 1) (#180)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 11:44:36 PM EST
    Before I can tell anyone anything they must be smart enough to learn.

    You don't qualify.

    And I'm sorry to have to say that you are a bully. But facts are facts.

    As a dear departed Uncle once said, "Yankees can't help being Yankees."

    Have a nice day dear bully.

    Parent

    "Yankees can't help ..." (5.00 / 2) (#183)
    by Yman on Fri Feb 01, 2013 at 06:53:37 AM EST
    ... but be direct, straightforward and to-the-point (with a sense of humor), rather than engaging in backhanded insults while cloaking themselves in a fake veneer of Southern politeness?

    Okay.

    Parent

    How would you know? (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by Yman on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 08:08:11 AM EST
    I was hopeful that living in Nashville would help you but I see that it has not.

    Once you best a Yankee they complain forever..

    You've never done it ...

    Parent

    But, it does prove that (none / 0) (#60)
    by Anne on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 01:18:37 PM EST
    government spending drives the economy, I think.

    And, as an aside, I don't think the stock market is the best measure of the health of the economy.  

    Parent

    Is that a good thing? (none / 0) (#62)
    by Slado on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 01:24:54 PM EST
    I say not.

    Because an economy dependent on government spending is inefficient and destined for failure.

    Parent

    Oh, this is just so pointless. (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by Anne on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 01:33:11 PM EST
    If you understood monetary policy, it might be worth having this conversation, but you don't.

    You're like the guy who sees a man drowning, shrugs his shoulders and walks away with the life preserver, on the theory that if the man doesn't know how to swim, that's his problem, not yours.

    Parent

    I understand monetary policy (none / 0) (#73)
    by Slado on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 01:49:49 PM EST
    I understand that the Fed and our government has convinced themselves that an expansion of our monetary supply and stimulative government spending would lead to higher demand and more growth the coinciding kick start to the economy in the long run would enable to pay it back.

    Hasn't worked.

    I didn't think it would and I'm slowly, painfully being proven right.

    Every time we see signs of improvement we take a step back and the excuses poor forth like a new spring rain.

    You have convinced yourself it will work despite all evidence to the contrary.

    Here's a better analogy.  Man hits head against wall.  It hurts.  He hits his head harder and is surprised when it hurts more.   Man then reads article by Paul Krugman that tells him he's simply not trying hard enough like he told him years ago so he tries again.   He is again surprised when it doesn't work.

    Parent

    Please explain how the government (none / 0) (#87)
    by Anne on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 03:43:24 PM EST
    taking more money out of the economy will help it grow.

    You really don't understand how this works, have shown you have no understanding of sovereign currency.

    You analogy fails, in epic fashion, but that's no great surprise.  The better analogy is the one I gave you in an earlier comment: standing by while a man drowns and refusing to throw him a life preserver because he really shouldn't depend on others to save him.

    Parent

    Perhaps so... (5.00 / 1) (#107)
    by unitron on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 10:34:21 PM EST
    "Because an economy dependent on government spending is inefficient and destined for failure."

    But if the private sector is depressed (by which in this instance I mean not enough people have big enough paychecks to be able to create enough demand to keep the economy going), then government spending is temporarily necessary to keep things afloat until consumer demand rises again.

    We need, on a temporary basis, for government to spend like the proverbial drunken sailor--only more judiciously in on what the money is actually spent--to create more paychecks out there to create more consumer demand (which is this case means people who both want something and have the money with which to buy it).

    Once that gets up and running again the government can ease off and all of those paychecks that snowballed into demand that created more paychecks as businesses rushed to meet that demand means more tax revenue for the government, which means it'll be better able to cover the cost of that temporary drunken sailor spending.

    Parent

    Like I said, (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by NYShooter on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 11:15:11 PM EST
    You can have: "a rising tide lifting all boats," or "every man for himself."

    Parent
    Als due to (none / 0) (#63)
    by jbindc on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 01:26:19 PM EST
    Last summer's drought, Hurricane Sandy, oh, and the worry about the fiscal cliff negotations.

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    Spin and excuses (none / 0) (#65)
    by Slado on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 01:30:12 PM EST
    That's all this is.

    Parent
    Maybe it has more to do with this (none / 0) (#67)
    by Slado on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 01:34:36 PM EST
    2009 - 133,886,830 Americans in the work force

    2012 - 128,066,082 Americans in the work force

    No, can't be that.  It must be Defense spending and the weather.

    Listen to how silly you guys sound.

    Parent

    There has been a huge decrease (5.00 / 2) (#93)
    by ruffian on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 04:47:37 PM EST
    in public sector jobs at every level. How can you argue on one hand that government spending does not help the economy, and on the other hand that the economy is down because fewer people are employed? You are the one that makes no sense.

    Parent
    and "the weather" was a massive storm in (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by ruffian on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 04:50:20 PM EST
    one of the the most densely populated economic centers of the country, during the Christmas spending season. You think that did not effect GDP?

    Parent
    Consider another factoid, Slado (none / 0) (#76)
    by christinep on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 01:52:49 PM EST
    The retiring Baby Boomer cohort and the smaller subsequent cohort in the workforce.  Some of that dynamic going on as well.

    BTW, a quick bit of CBS news on the radio this a.m. forecast increased hiring in the coming months as well as more inventory; ABC News reported last night that home prices were markedly increasing again,  etc.

    That should make you feel better...or, at least, maybe you might re-consider about whether we are really doomed after all.

    Parent

    Another day... (none / 0) (#86)
    by kdog on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 03:32:31 PM EST
    another 7 year old chained to a bench.

    There goes the law keeping the kids safe again...

    RIP, Patty Andrews (1918-2013). (none / 0) (#96)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 05:36:40 PM EST
    Patty was the last surviving member of the legendary pop vocal group from the 20th Century's Big Band era, the Andrews Sisters.

    Known for their tight three-part harmonies, full-throated delivery and tireless visits overseas with U.S. military personnel while on tour with the USO during the Second World War, Patty, Maxene and Laverne Andrews had 19 gold records, 10 Top-Ten singles, and sold over 100 million records during their heyday.

    The Andrews Sisters also appeared in more than a dozen films, including "Buck Privates" (with Bud Abbott and Lou Costello) and "The Road to Rio (with Bob Hope, Bing Crosby and Dorothy Lamour).

    Patty is also remembered for having burst spontaneously into tears of joy onstage during an August 1945 show in Italy, after interrupting a performance to read aloud to the thousands of American GIs in attendance a cablegram that had just been handed to her, which announced that Imperial Japan had just surrendered. Those same troops had been scheduled for redeployment later that week to Hawaii, in preparation for the then-planned invasion of the Japanese homeland later that November.

    Want to see something totally awesome ... (none / 0) (#99)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 06:37:59 PM EST
    ... or incredibly insane -- or both?

    Hawaii's own Garrett McNamara set a new world record yesterday, by riding a 90-foot wave at Praia do Norte, off the coast of Nazaré, Portugal!

    Totally awesome. (none / 0) (#100)
    by caseyOR on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 06:45:20 PM EST
    Wow! And love the music. :-)

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    Holy moly...those are the kinds of waves (none / 0) (#102)
    by Anne on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 07:34:27 PM EST
    I've been known to have nightmares about - not surprisingly, when I'm feeling overwhelmed.

    Gives me the willies just watching it.

    Parent

    ... I find the 10-to-15 ft. variety to be more than challenging enough. There's no way you'd ever see me out there in those kinds of sets!

    But Garrett McNamara grew up in Haleiwa on Oahu's North Shore, and as he's proved time and again over the years, he's certainly no stranger to big waves. Big wave riders are indeed a special breed of cat.

    Although our own North Shore is world-renowned for its surf, the place in Hawaii that actually has the biggest waves (often rivaling those 70-100 ft. monster sets at Praia do Norte in Portugal) is Peahi Beach over on the north side of Maui, which is more commonly known around here by its rather ominous nickname -- "Jaws."

    Parent

    Amazing (none / 0) (#127)
    by ruffian on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 10:47:29 AM EST
    and I have those dreams too Anne!

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    MSNBC in trouble AGAIN (none / 0) (#124)
    by jbindc on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 09:55:27 AM EST
    For editing videos and trying to pass it off as "journalism".

    Link

    And yet, they think they are superior to other organizations that do the same thing.


    It's all about intent (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by Yman on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 10:26:42 AM EST
    Is there evidence that the editing was done intentionally to decieve?  Is it part of a consistent pattern?

    Not to mention the fact that, on these two occasions, MSNBC acknowledged the editing and (in the Zimmerman case) apologized and fired the producer responsible for the editing.  So, yeah ... I'd agree they're better than other who do the same thing.

    Parent

    Yes (none / 0) (#135)
    by jbindc on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 12:04:46 PM EST
    Not to mention the fact that, on these two occasions, MSNBC acknowledged the editing ...

    ...but only when they got caught.  You have to ask yourself - what else have they edited, and how has that made a difference with shaping public perception?

    Sure, it's easy to come clean when the whole world can see you're wrong.

    Did they have intent?  Yes.  The whole point of having an editor is to make sure things they put out to the public are factually correct.  MSNBC, once again, failed in this respect.

    Parent

    Not evidence of intent (none / 0) (#149)
    by Yman on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 04:58:13 PM EST
    A big part of news editing is to make the stories fit into very small time slots, a big challenge when trying to select portions of recorded video to include in a segment.  By itself, an "editor" screwing up shows nothing more than the fact that they're human - particularly when you can only cite two instances.  Get back to me when you can find dozens (Fox) or hundreds/thousands (talk radio) ... not to mention how Fox either fails to correct/apologize or just doubles down on it.

    As for other, imaginary videos ... meh.  Do you seriously think in this age with conservative media watchers and dozens/hundreds of bloggers, that MSNBC has been spinning videos without getting caught?

    Not buying it for a second.

    Parent

    They played the full video yesterday on Bashir (none / 0) (#133)
    by vicndabx on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 11:47:17 AM EST
    and asked the audience to be the judge if it was heckling or not.

    The point was the pro-gun lobby could not keep quiet in the face of father who'd lost his child to gun violence.  They were trying to make their points, as impolitic as ever.

    I would add, this is a little different than Zimmerman coverage - Martin Bashir's show provides commentary and not just reporting.  Some spin is expected.

    YMMV

    Parent

    lucky Obama (none / 0) (#173)
    by diogenes on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 09:05:15 PM EST
    If the fourth quarter downturn in GDP had come out BEFORE the election (say, in the third quarter), I think that Romney would have won.