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Wednesday Open Thread

It's been days since our last open thread. I've been focused on ISIS and Iraq, and readers seem focused on Ferguson. Here's some space to talk about other things, all topics welcome.

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    Howard Dean Yesterday (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by CoralGables on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 07:33:55 AM EST
    "I am a huge Hillary Clinton fan...If she is president, which I hope she is, I think she is going to be a terrific president."

    - Howard Dean (8/19/14)

    A co-dependent corporate Dem? (none / 0) (#37)
    by Dadler on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 10:31:32 AM EST
    That someone with half a brain could propose the idea that another one of these corrupt, imagination-bereft morons is going to make a positive difference is depressing.

    Bill Clinton, whom I used to love and now feel absolutely nothing for, would be LOST in today's political world.

    Hillary, who is essentially a political twin of her husband, will be no different.

    Until a bold and fearless ARTIST leads this nation, we're doomed.

    Peace, y'all.

    Parent

    Howard Dean circa 2003 called... (none / 0) (#38)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 10:43:10 AM EST
    and asked "wtf?".

    Bold, fearless...and may I add suicidal?  What we need would never be allowed to happen D...look at the leaders of the recent past with a flair for art and imagination...they all got shot, imprisoned, and/or otherwise neutered.

    Parent

    Something to lighten the mood (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by jbindc on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 09:14:50 AM EST
    Awsum (none / 0) (#13)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 09:16:47 AM EST
    Nyshooter wrote (1.00 / 3) (#25)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 09:51:14 AM EST
    in another thread and Jeralyn said take it to an open thread.

    I'd like to get some feedback From the TL Community about the broader issue of Islam itself. For as long as I can remember, as a true-blue 60's Liberal, I bought into the conventional wisdom: Islam is one of the world's great religions; it, generally, promotes peace and brotherhood; it's the media that sensationalizes the barbaric acts of a tiny minority, Muslims shouldn't be broad brushed by some small percentage of anti-social zealots, and, so on.
    First, is it true?

    What is true?? Islam is defined as a religion yet it has all the trappings of a closed political system that seeks to control every aspect of its member's lives.

    Second, if the great majority of Muslims could affect change anonymously they would, overwhelmingly, choose peace and cooperation with all people and religions, and, give up the fantasy of a world wide, one religion, future?  Yes, or, no? It's only fear of reprisal by the militants that keep the majority quiet. What do you think?

    I do not know. But the reality is that the majority is letting the radicals set the agenda by default. At what point will this change? I do not know. But the current situation is very disturbing.

    Anyway, like I said, I, generally bought into those concepts for most of my adult life, but, now, I'm not so sure. I feel that most religions are simply vehicles that ambitious, power hungry, psychopaths employ to scare the living "b'jesus" out of the weak, uneducated/uninformed, and clinically gullible suckers that make up most of the world's population. But, having said that, most religions have evolved somewhat into the 21st. century, and have modified their views, and, rules to accommodate a changing world, at least, somewhat.
    All, that is, but one.

    I don't agree with your description of "most religions" but I will agree that most have liberalized.  Islam may have in some locations but it is clear that a significant number have not and they have radicalized a large number of Muslims.

    Is there any hope that Islam can mutate from its uncompromising 14th. Century views, and, demands, on its adherents?
    Can "change" happen, or is a "winner-take-all" Armageddon inevitable?

    Based on the responses of Muslims worldwide change will not happen fast enough to prevent a war. But I do not see it as a winner take all Armageddon. I do see the West enforcing its liberal culture on a culture that is not. The question is will the West act in time to minimize the cost. And it cannot just be the US. It must be the"West."

    I base this on my observations that Muslims do not integrate well into the societies they immigrate into but demand that the new society accommodate their previous religious and cultural norms. The riots over a cartoon of Mohammed, "harm" to a Koran, etc. do not speak of an acceptance of others views and life styles by a large majority of Muslims. This is further reinforced by their demands for special prayer facilities in public institutions, prayer times, refusal to carry dogs and alcohol when operating public transportation and such mundane things as touching pork when acting as a checkout clerk in a grocery.

    It can be said that many of these are anecdotal. But it is obvious they come from a background that creates them.

    To tell you the truth, whenever I see another atrocity like tonight's ( Personal disclosure: The decapitation of Danny Pearl flipped me out forever) I wish I was back as that crazy 19 year old jar-Head that could, and, would, take the fight to them, instead of waiting for my grandchildren to have to do it.

    Am I nuts, or, does anyone else have some politically incorrect stirrings going on?

    If you are sincerely stating your feelings then you are starting to question long held beliefs. I have been there and done that in another context.

    It is difficult and disturbing.

    I have had significant personal and business relationships with Muslims. I have found them to be just people. Good, bad and in between.  It is when they are in a group that the problems start. This is not unique to Muslims but is a troublesome fact.

    What I do think would be helpful is if we, as a culture, publicly and continually condemn such things as Honor Killings, killings of Gays and fornicators, teaching that Jews kill babies, denying women education, etc., etc. People do not change unless their failings are pointed out.

    Jim Official Manifesto (none / 0) (#49)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 11:25:12 AM EST
    Seems like the next step is sending it to the NYT ,demanding they publish it or brown people will get hurt.

    Funny thing, you haven't changed a lick and I am pretty sure your failings have been pointed out ad nauseam.  But keep promoting the killing of Muslim babies Jim, that a good start in your forced integration views.

    Parent

    Did you read?? Nyshooter wrote (none / 0) (#50)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 11:28:15 AM EST
    I'd like to get some feedback From the TL Community about the broader issue of Islam itself.

    Do you have any comment on that??

    Parent

    Maybe Hillary was right (none / 0) (#2)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 09:00:19 AM EST
    And President Obama should have done something about Syria before it spawned ISIS.  Things are kind of in a new light today :)

    ... after the Assad regime deployed and used chemical weapons, but Congress put the big kibosh on it after he looked to them for support. The damnedest thing is that many of those who opposed him then are criticizing him today for having not done enough. Go figure.

    Parent
    She said Obama should have (none / 0) (#63)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 01:15:40 PM EST
    Supported Syrian rebels, which ones though?  How could we have known the difference between ISIL and not going to become ISIL.  I have doubts that would or could be easy to do.

    Parent
    Hindsight (none / 0) (#3)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 09:07:34 AM EST
    Few of us would have thought so if he did.

    Parent
    I don't remember it being (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 09:49:12 AM EST
    so clear at the time as to who would be the right groups to support. Maybe I just did not inform myself enough.

    I took a break from listening to "Hard Choices". Will have to continue and see what she has to say about Syria.

    Parent

    It wasn't clear (none / 0) (#34)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 10:20:29 AM EST
    Sometimes you have to stay out of things until you can't anymore.

    I refused to entertain the notion we should just inject ourselves, and I'm still okay with that. I will be very interested in hearing what Hillary "saw" in the tea leaves if she wrote anything about it though.

    I am fine that the Obama administration stayed out of it until genocide became something they had to address.  And in addressing the genocide ISIS decided to attack non-military targets, they chose to behead imprisoned journalists.  And here we are

    Parent

    If he had not (none / 0) (#35)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 10:23:16 AM EST
    Obama administration stayed out of it until genocide

    Can you imagine the hell that would have rained down on him

    Parent

    From everyone (none / 0) (#36)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 10:28:24 AM EST
    All sides

    Parent
    Pretty much the definition of a no-win (none / 0) (#42)
    by Mr Natural on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 11:06:59 AM EST
    situation.

    Parent
    I wouldn't have (none / 0) (#5)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 09:10:08 AM EST
    I probably would not (none / 0) (#7)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 09:12:52 AM EST
    But you are right about it maybe being a good idea.  

    Parent
    Oops (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 09:14:50 AM EST
    I probably WOULD have

    Parent
    You know (none / 0) (#45)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 11:14:16 AM EST
    what is ironic? When you look back on a lot of the things she has said she was right time and again and her critique of Obama back in 2008 turned out to be pretty right too.

    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#48)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 11:20:24 AM EST
    "Done something about"... (none / 0) (#60)
    by unitron on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 12:52:41 PM EST
    ...is such a nice, flexible phrase, so unencumbered by specifics.

    Even with the benefit of hindsight I'm not sure how one would have gone about preventing the rise of ISIS/ISIL without basically helping Assad slaughter his own civilians by the tens of thousands.

    How long ago did she first say that, by the way?

    Parent

    I think her argument is we should have aided (none / 0) (#64)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 01:17:48 PM EST
    Rebels.  And being the SOS she may actually know who we should have aided.  She had access to things others don't.

    I need more information :)

    Parent

    ROME (none / 0) (#4)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 09:09:00 AM EST
    HBO is rerunning this excellent series.  If you never saw it definitely worth a look.
    IMO one of the best things HBO ever did.

    I binged On Demand (none / 0) (#6)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 09:11:43 AM EST
    All day Saturday.  I had forgotten about the series until I saw it on the schedule.

    Parent
    Isn't it great? (none / 0) (#8)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 09:13:53 AM EST
    Have you seen Carnival?  HBO has been doing this for a long time.

    Parent
    I watched a few episodes of Carnival (none / 0) (#12)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 09:16:20 AM EST
    So I have something to look forward to the next time it is pouring here.  Never watched it from the beginning.

    Parent
    I tried painting my bedroom red (none / 0) (#11)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 09:14:58 AM EST
    The series originally inspired me to try something wild.  It was awful.  And it took so many coats of pale yellow to cover it my husband had to help me.

    "Tracy, don't ever paint a whole room red ever again!"

    I have been warned :)

    Parent

    Red definitely only (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 09:17:58 AM EST
    Works in the right room

    Parent
    I want to Chanel my bathroom (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 09:21:44 AM EST
    You know how she had many rooms in her home?  Pink and white stripe walls with black accessories or trim.  He's away.  That is when I am my most dangerous :). He could shoot me coming home to that having been done to his bathroom.  Good thing we don't own a gun.

    Parent
    I tried (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 09:38:19 AM EST
    painting my living room red and got only as far as one wall. Red is a color where you have to put on about seven coats it seems to make it look right.

    We then quit that and called the professionals in to paint the entire room and the kitchen.


    Parent

    We have a deep red wall in our (none / 0) (#27)
    by Anne on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 09:54:42 AM EST
    dining room, on the same wall with the French doors, so the dark is balanced nicely with the light and doesn't make you feel like you're having a meal from inside a blood clot.

    It worked so well that I painted one wall of our bedroom in the same color - the front wall that also has two large windows in it.  It's cozy without being suffocating.

    What's funny is that a couple years ago, our neighbor offered to do some painting for us as "payment" for some help we had given him.  I arrived home from work one day to find my dining room now had four walls all painted eggshell - and I hated it.  The wall with the doors out to the deck got painted red again the next day.

    Parent

    I painted the house bathroom (none / 0) (#29)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 10:02:15 AM EST
    What seemed to be a nice white hue.  All four walls reflecting off each other in semi-gloss though gave the walls a glow I can only describe as "skin".  One of the creepiest things I have ever seen.  Had be re-painted a different hue of white :)

    Parent
    I understand (none / 0) (#46)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 11:17:50 AM EST
    the eggshell thing. I really do not like these neutral colors. To me they remind me of a hosptial or an institution.

    Parent
    Two words... (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by unitron on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 12:34:14 PM EST
    ...Blocking White

    That's what your first coat should be when changing color so radically.

    Parent

    Yes (none / 0) (#61)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 12:58:17 PM EST
    But I really didn't think it could be all that bad.  It was though :)

    Parent
    Oh yes, I loved it too (none / 0) (#21)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 09:46:31 AM EST
    Will have to catch the reruns. No good characters like Pullo on current shows.

    Parent
    Nice to see you (none / 0) (#22)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 09:49:01 AM EST
    Just getting ready to sit down to breakfast as watch last nights Tyrant

    Parent
    You too! (5.00 / 2) (#24)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 09:50:41 AM EST
    I haven't watched last night's episode yet. I got a houseguest hooked on it last week though!

    That and The Knick, which was great last week too. 1900 operating theater just as dangerous to nurses as to patients, apparently!

    Parent

    All three of us (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 09:54:43 AM EST
    Any good? (none / 0) (#44)
    by Yman on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 11:09:49 AM EST
    I was thinking of trying the series, but don't have a lot of time right now, so I haven't started it.

    Parent
    Record it if you can (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 11:39:43 AM EST
    So far it allows you to fast forward the commercials too.  It is a very compelling storyline.

    Parent
    I am relying on you brother (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 12:10:57 PM EST
    You are the only one I can trust.

    Yikes.

    Parent

    On the GOP not campaiging (none / 0) (#15)
    by CoralGables on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 09:19:26 AM EST
    against the ACA anymore as we head into the midterms:

    "Although it's not considered nice to state it bluntly: the attack on Obamacare depended almost entirely on lies, and those lies are becoming unsustainable now that the law is actually working."

    Paul Krugman (8/19/14)

    Oddly (none / 0) (#17)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 09:23:16 AM EST
    Pryors opponent has been running the same old BS pretty much 24/7.   They either think it is working or they have nothing else.  
    It's weird.  Ever time I see one of the commercials it makes me chuckle.  Like, damn, there must be a lot of dumb as hell people in this state.

    Also clearly aimed at old folks.  Really hammering the Medicare lies

    Parent

    All i can (none / 0) (#31)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 10:14:25 AM EST
    say is that here in GA they seem to think that the people that vote Republican are stupid or that the voters in general are stupid. Talk about dumbed down nonsense and boogy man fever and then condescending to boot.

    Parent
    Still using Medi-scare? (none / 0) (#33)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 10:19:43 AM EST
    In Texas... (none / 0) (#41)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 11:04:37 AM EST
    ...it was 30 seconds of "Why I hate Obama More That the Other Guy", followed with doom and gloom imagery, deep voice explaining something, that leaves everyone wondering, "Did he really do that ?"

    Then the nice music with a picture of Cruz or Palin, then some kids, and eventually the candidate dropping a god and Texas reference letting us know he will stand for the Obama socialist agenda.

    Seriously, they played at least once per commercial break near election day and it was beyond nauseating.  And to know a lot of people in Texas don't care about any policy, just the fact that a candidate hates Obama that much, makes them qualified, and their candidate.

    Parent

    Haven't (none / 0) (#47)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 11:20:07 AM EST
    seen that. Only that Michele Nunn is not qualifited and Jason Carter is going to take away your guns. These people are nothing if they're not predictable.

    Parent
    Or (none / 0) (#18)
    by jbindc on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 09:28:39 AM EST
    1. Most people are not aware of what their rates will be heading into 2015; they will also not know if they will owe money back on any subsidies until tax time next year;

    2. Ferguson and ISIS are apparently the only news going on.  No one else is reporting on anything else;

    3. The Republicans know they are going to keep the House, and maybe even pick up a few seats, and every day it looks better and better for them to take the Senate.


    Parent
    I do not think the R's (none / 0) (#20)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 09:42:58 AM EST
    Will take the senate.  
    But I also don't think it matters much if they do.  Nothing is going to happen for the next two years.  Nada.
    If it stays status quo the republicans will stop it.  If the R's take the senate majority the president will.

    As long as no important judges buy the farm I don't see how it matters much.  We are all going to tread water for the next two years.  2016 is going to be a very different situation.

    Parent

    Yeah, in fact it might (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 09:52:15 AM EST
    be more interesting if the R's did take the Senate. Nothing would happen, but maybe in a more interesting way than nothing is happening now.

    Parent
    But the point is (none / 0) (#40)
    by jbindc on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 11:00:59 AM EST
    If they think they are going to take the Senate (and I disagree with you - I think they will.  They need 6, and they already have 3 all but sewn up), then they don't need to be pounding "Obamacare!" 24/7.  

    But where I do agree with you is that nothing will get done for 2 years anyway.

    Parent

    The absolutely (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 11:45:41 AM EST
    wonderful thing is that if they do take the senate it's going to be crackpottery on steroids leading to a Hillary landslide in 2016.

    Parent
    They are pounding the he11 (none / 0) (#57)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 12:14:34 PM EST
    Out of it here in AR.

    Parent
    Rates (none / 0) (#30)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 10:11:47 AM EST
    have been skyrocketing since 2002. Everytime I point this out to a republican all they do is start to whine. So I guess they are hoping that people are ignorant enough not to know that. It seems like lying is their only way they can come up with a way to criticize Obamacare.

    Parent
    Lying has worked pretty well (none / 0) (#32)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 10:17:43 AM EST
    To this day KY Kynect polls about 20 points better that Obamacare.  

    The smear job they did will be one studied by the right for years as "what works"

    Parent

    But Obama told us they would (none / 0) (#51)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 11:30:23 AM EST
    be going down.

    Parent
    Well (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 11:43:58 AM EST
    they did go down for some people and went up for some people. Ours went down. So then you have to say that the GOP is lying too, Jim.

    If insurance is so expensive then why didn't your beloved GOP do something about the problem when they had complete control of the government? Rates were skyrocketing under them and they did nothing. I guess it was okay then because it happened under the GOP?

    Parent

    I've always liked this NFL ref (none / 0) (#39)
    by jbindc on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 10:58:28 AM EST
    Mike Carey.  He was one of the best refs in the league.  Great to see this piece about him and how he refused to officiate Washington football games for 8 years because of the name "Redskins".

    Insane (none / 0) (#43)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 11:09:07 AM EST
    A motorcycle doing about 50, hits a car changing lanes, and the driver lands on the roof.

    I would say it's staged, but there are too many cars and looks like they are on a bridge.

    LINK

    It would be nice (none / 0) (#62)
    by sj on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 01:00:38 PM EST
    if that logo/banner didn't cover a quarter of the video. That makes me crazy in the morning, too. My local channel has quite a decent and frequent traffic report. But, while they frequently talk about my particular commute, the station logo is always plastered right over that highway when they display the traffic map.

    Still, that's better than anything I get from the 10 seconds every 15 minutes that the Big Three morning shows provide.

    Parent

    The President doesn't call them ISIS (none / 0) (#55)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 11:59:52 AM EST
    I suppose I should stop too. So ISIL, the President was stern and clear and dead on.

    Seems pretty clear the gloves are off, and he indicates allies will be aiding us.  He indicated that in the death of Foley, justice will be done.