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Thursday Morning Open Thread

I'll be on Daily Kos Radio this morning with Jesse LaGreca. You can listen here.

Open Thread.

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    Houston Tops Forbes... (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 10:15:35 AM EST
    ...America's Coolest Cities.

    Dallas, 4th
    San Antonio, 11th
    Fort Worth, 13th

    LINK

    Forbes (5.00 / 4) (#12)
    by Dadler on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 10:56:03 AM EST
    Enough said. Can I stop laughing?  Not a terrible city, but the coolest in the country???  Dear lord, money can buy you anything, including bogus city ratings. Do they include the fact that Texas has no concerns about poisoning its citizens at every opportunity? Or executing them on a dime?

    Sorry, I have to go laugh some more.

     

    Parent

    Hey... (none / 0) (#33)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 12:35:59 PM EST
    ... I will always pimp my city, the coolest, who knows.  But what I do know is numero uno according to Forbes.  You disagree, fine, but you don't have to be an a$$ about it, and you might actually want to take the tour before you write the review.

    And not to point out the obvious flaw in your idiocy, but you know, the US does far worse, and you know, like, all the cities & states here are like, 'em, within it's borders...

    Or is that rule just for dumping on Texas ?

    Parent

    I relocated to Houston (League City) from SoCal (none / 0) (#35)
    by easilydistracted on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 01:01:37 PM EST
    in 2006 to work a contract for that large government employer in the Clear Lake vicinity. I lived there four years before transferring to the DFW metroplex in 2010. I enjoyed the Houston area. If one has to live in Texas, then Houston and Austin are where to make the best of it, I say. I'm sure the good folks of Dallas are taking a rather dim view of their ranking behind Houston.

    Two other noteworthy items regarding the list: (1) Orange County CA (where I'm returing to in January) ranked as a city and (2) I'm surprised Portland didn't make the cut, or did I miss it.

    Parent

    I am an ass deluxe (none / 0) (#66)
    by Dadler on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 03:06:05 PM EST
    Make no bones about it, but come on.  The drawbacks of your state are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO fathomous as to be tragic and representative of the WORST America has to offer when it comes to corporate governance of the public class of average joanne jones's.

    Cali may be whatever phucked up thing it is, socal especially, but SoCal, my hometown, is THE most diverse place on planet earth, bar none, not even phooking close.  

    And I've been to Houston. It's fine. Beyond that, we shall never agree.

    Peace and no offense and raise the floor, phuck the roof!!!

    Parent

    Ahem... (none / 0) (#69)
    by kdog on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 03:13:45 PM EST
    Queens NY, most ethnically diverse county in the country holmes.

    And f*ck Forbes;)

    Parent

    We're top fivers (none / 0) (#71)
    by Dadler on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 03:17:39 PM EST
    Metro area stewpots. Forbes can bite me. Two times, as Mars Blackmon would say.

    Parent
    And for awhile back in the day (none / 0) (#73)
    by Dadler on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 03:19:11 PM EST
    According to some survey, my old Normal Heights hood was number 1.  Who the fook knows, as long as we're not living in Country Clubville.

    Parent
    I hear that... (none / 0) (#75)
    by kdog on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 03:37:53 PM EST
    Could be at the neighborhood level, we're still kinda self-segregating by neighborhood, but not as much as the old days.

    Parent
    Well, I'd like to note that ... (none / 0) (#89)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 06:54:54 PM EST
    ... Honolulu probably wouldn't ever be mistaken for Andy Griffith's Mayberry, either.

    Parent
    Agree about SoCal (none / 0) (#77)
    by brodie on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 04:03:12 PM EST
    We can list all its faults, geological and otherwise, but it's easily one of my favorite places to live.  And sure enough when I hear a diss I tend to want to come to the defense of other CA cities and towns where I've lived since the mid sixties even knowing full well their shortcomings.

    The one exception of course being Lodi.

    As for Houston I've been there half a dozen times on bidness and have seen some of its old neighborhood central city charming big houses and eaten at a few of their fancier upscale restaurants.  Back in the day even a fair number of quality bookstores.  But ultimately it comes down to "If you have to live in Texas ..."

    Parent

    Isn't that exactly what ... (none / 0) (#88)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 06:49:08 PM EST
    brodie: "And sure enough when I hear a diss I tend to want to come to the defense of other CA cities and towns where I've lived since the mid sixties even knowing full well their shortcomings. The one exception of course being Lodi."

    ... John Fogerty and the Creedence Clearwater Revival were trying to tell us, all those years ago?

    "Just about a year ago, I set out on the road,
    Seekin' my fame and fortune, lookin' for a pot of gold.
    Things got bad, and things got worse, I guess you will know the tune.
    Oh, Lord! I'm stuck in Lodi again."


    Parent
    Lodi, Caif., is a paradise (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by Towanda on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 10:41:34 PM EST
    compared to the town that I always think they're singing about:  Lodi, Wisconsin, population 2000 or so, since Tom Wopat of Dukes of Hazzard fame left.  Also the home of Susie the Duck.

    Susie the Duck is bigger there.  She has her own festival.

    Parent

    Texas gets five out of the top 20? (none / 0) (#47)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 02:11:16 PM EST
    You're not the one who's pimping for Houston, Scott.

    (And I do like Houston, by the way, even if it was a little cheesy of city officials to rename your international airport after Poppy Bush while he's still alive.)

    Rather, I'd say the people doing the pimping here are the Texas Chamber of Commerce. I guess someone there forgot to tell Forbes' Morgan Brennan all about the Garden of Eden that's Midland-Odessa.

    And really, Forbes -- Orange County, CA is not a city. It never has been. Rather, it's merely a collection of autonomous suburbs in perpetual search of a downtown to call home, with the exception of that violent crime-ridden hellhole called Newport Beach.

    ;-)

    Parent

    Thank you (none / 0) (#68)
    by Dadler on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 03:12:53 PM EST
    Jeebus, Donald, does the rest of the country not understand that Southern California is equivalent to another COUNTRY in its scope?  I guess not.  As a kid who lived in Highland Park, Long Beach, Whittier, Hollywood, North Hollywood, La Habra Heights and ten other stops along the way, please, Metro L.A., for all it's phuckedupness IS the entire free and yearning to be free world in a nutshell.  I remember living with Ethiopian immigrants to one side of me, Indo-Chinese on the other side, eastern European across the street, and regular ol' Mexican everywhere else.  I think LA county, maybe Simi Valley excepted, is the hardest place to be a cracker in the USofA, and I like it that way, even though I'm up north in a pretty close facsimile.

    End nativist rant.  

    Parent

    Ten martini lunch alert (none / 0) (#70)
    by Dadler on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 03:14:40 PM EST
    I beg your indulgence already.  Ahem.

    Parent
    Good rant. But another (none / 0) (#80)
    by brodie on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 04:17:16 PM EST
    nice thing about Greater LA and LA County is that Simi Valley, home to half the white LAPD officers on the force and to St Ronnie of Reagan's Libarry, actually is located in Ventura County, thankfully.

    Parent
    Personally, I've always felt that ... (none / 0) (#91)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 07:01:46 PM EST
    ... most of the people living in Ventura County actually belong farther north somewhere, between Bakersfield and Visalia, and not down south between Los Angeles and Santa Barbara.

    ;-D

    Parent

    After MT's rant about (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by observed on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 10:24:24 AM EST
    equine abuse in dressage, I looked up a certain term. Now, looking at Romney and his stiff neck, I'm wondering if he has been subjected to prolonged rollkur.

    I think Mitt is a good prospect (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 10:39:03 AM EST
    He's got the attitude and he's got the bloodlines, but he hasn't been worked over yet.  I say let's double bridle him up and hopefully he won't fight so hard at first that he breaks his jaw.

    Parent
    I read a short article on rollkur. (5.00 / 3) (#7)
    by observed on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 10:41:37 AM EST
    The defense of the practice by proponents seemed completely preposterous. Yeah, right, putting a horse's neck in an unnatural position where it can't breathe will result in more suppleness.
    And tax cuts create the most revenue, too!

    Parent
    Exactly...funny how MOT is talking (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 10:43:08 AM EST
    about BDSM and Republicans enjoying hurting people right this minute :)

    Parent
    Did you see Colbert doing dressage? (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by lilburro on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 10:48:25 AM EST
    It was hysterical.

    Parent
    He almost got thrown though (none / 0) (#16)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 11:11:19 AM EST
    I'm so glad that they left that in there. I couldn't believe they left it in there.  I know that the team had to have picked one of their mildest horses for him to ride, but even that horse wasn't wild about any of it.  Dressage horses aren't excessively happy, a lot of them could even be considered neurotic IMO because of the training they've been through.

    Parent
    MT, the horse analyzer. (none / 0) (#25)
    by oculus on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 11:37:21 AM EST
    Indeed. (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by lilburro on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 11:46:23 AM EST
    I just read MT's DK diary on dressage and it is fantastic.

    She doesn't f*cking love horses, she loves being pretentious and destroying the health of lesser beings to get noticed is perfectly fine with her.

    I didn't really want to write this diary, because I'm tired of always being an asshole and the way this election is going and the things being said, I get up every morning and find that I'm having to be an asshole again.

    Amen, sister!

    Parent

    Not really (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 11:52:14 AM EST
    It's more of just a common sense thing and how much "training" can affect a horse.  My father's head injury came from an abused horse.  He was a beautiful horse too, I don't know who originally trained him but they did a lot of damage to that horses soul and his mouth.  My dad thought he could fix what had happened and we were part of a saddle club then, only had two horses.  The horse fixed my dad though, forever.  That was the angriest horse I've ever known.  My dad was cleaning hooves one weekend before the wreck that landed him in a coma for 26 days.  He told me to bring him Rocky, because he was done cleaning our docile mare's feet.  I went and got Rocky, I was seven years old.  I stood next to Rocky and he placed his right front foot over my left foot and then began applying weight.  By the time my dad got to me and leveraged the horse off of my foot I was screaming.  Someone had really hurt that horse, then that horse hurt my dad and then he went to the cannery.  And we owned no more horses ever again.

    I still wanted to ride though.  My dad allowed me take riding lessons until my fascination wore off and he paced outside the fence during the whole thing.

    Parent

    I didn't even think about it until now either (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 11:55:14 AM EST
    But my first German Shepherd that was MY dog, it needed fixing too, and someone gave him to my dad because they thought my dad could fix him.  That was where I learned that a person's own temperament affects the dogs they own.

    Parent
    For those interested (none / 0) (#46)
    by lilburro on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 02:08:55 PM EST
    in watching the Colbert segments here is Part 1 and Part 2.

    Parent
    Scadalous!!! (5.00 / 3) (#42)
    by kdog on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 01:44:34 PM EST
    Big news in NYC is the NYCHA sitting on a cool billion dollars from the feds for improvements to city housing, and sitting on it and sitting on and sitting on it...while project residents live with rats, mold, busted doors, busted elevators, busted everything.

    3 welfare queens on the NYCHA board making 200 large a year apiece plus perks...for doing a whole lotta d*ck while tenants wait years for basic repairs.  Head of the board used to work at Lehman Bros...say no more!

    Linkage and Editorial Linkage

    Harry Reid brought a bazooka to a gun fight (none / 0) (#2)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 10:23:20 AM EST
    John Stewart named him a really really bad person last night because he had no named source and he played the dead dad card too when he said that Mitt's dad must be really really embarrassed by him :)  And then he followed that with Fox News making all sorts of $hit up :)

    Stewart is kind of full of it (none / 0) (#15)
    by Dadler on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 11:05:10 AM EST
    While Reid is no prize, I would ask dear John what OTHER logical rationale Mitt Romney could possibly have for not releasing his taxes like every other pres nom has.

    John Stewart could not offer a reasonable  answer if he tried. (I would also say that as a filthy rich person, Stewart always has a conflict of interest here, just as TV journalists always do when discussing the economy.)  Really, this is not much different rationally than Dubya talking about overcoming his drinking problem then refusing questions about hard drugs.  It was OBVIOUS why he refused: alcohol is the acceptable national recreational drug of America, and to admit doing coke or other stuff, he would've been copping to something that, dammit, just isn't American. Because there IS NO OTHER REASON to refuse to answer that question; just like there IS NO OTHER REASON for Romney not to offer those returns. He obviously got away with paying next to nothing. Obviously.  Since this has been widely discussed, if it weren't true, Mitt would have EVERY reason to clear himself and show how much he paid.

    But logic, I guess, is an afterthought not a source of journalistic insight.

    Parent

    Yeah, but... (none / 0) (#18)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 11:19:39 AM EST
    ..."his dad, who is dead, would be ashamed".  That is out of bounds, especially considering that in reality, it seems highly improbable when you consider why he left the country, to avoid US law.  I would even venture to say, he might even be proud.

    But that is beside the point, you don't pretend to know what political relatives, dead or alive, would think about anything.

    Parent

    George Romney did not leave the country. (5.00 / 2) (#86)
    by caseyOR on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 05:16:38 PM EST
    Mitt's father was CEO of American Motors, then governor of Michigan. You might be thinking about Mitt's grandfather.

    I remember George Romney. He was CEO of American Motors, where he championed smaller, more fuel-efficient cars. He famously returned part of his salary when the company was not doing well, and believed that no executive should earn more than $100,000.00 (approx. $1.4 mil. in today's dollars).

    When he ran for governor, George released 12 years worth of tax returns, something that was not routinely done at the time.

    I think Harry Reid is correct. George Romney would not be pleased with Mitt.

    Parent

    Too bad (none / 0) (#93)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 07:54:30 PM EST
    Romney isn't more like his Dad. I guess his dad was one of those old style republicans that no longer exist or are in hiding somewhere.

    Parent
    Out of bounds? Ridiculous. (none / 0) (#19)
    by observed on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 11:23:00 AM EST
    It's perfectly ordinary political invective.


    Parent
    Not to defend Reid *brrr* but I took his comment (none / 0) (#23)
    by Farmboy on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 11:36:39 AM EST
    about Romney's father to be in reference to George setting the modern standard for releasing personal information when he ran for President - a contrast between George's openness in releasing an unprecedented, at the time, dozen years of tax returns and financial records, and Mitt's close-lipped responses and refusals.

    But yeah, there are many less tacky ways Reid could have phrased that sentiment instead of the way he did.

    Parent

    Why not? (none / 0) (#63)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 03:01:42 PM EST
    After all, wasn't it Hugh Hewitt -- or somebody of his wingnut ilk -- who tried to lecture Ron Reagan on Hardball not all that long ago about the legacy of his own father, St. Ronnie of the Right? And when Ron, Jr. was having none of it, he told him that his father would be ashamed of him.

    The GOP goes there all the friggin' time in making some pretty horrific personal insinuations, and I've never been terribly fond of the Beltway Democrats' policy of unilateral disarmament when they should be responding in kind.

    When it comes to political dust-ups, my policy is this -- I promise to never throw the first punch to start a fight, but will assure you that I'll always land the last blow which ends one. That's how to deal with political bullies.

    Now, speaking for myself only, I would never presume to know what Mitt Romney's father would have thought personally about his son's current political activities, were he still alive. What George Romney would say privately to him, I couldn't begin to tell you. Our own rule of thumb in our house is that whatever is said in private behind closed doors, stays there.

    However, given that it's the nature of parents to become pretty aggressive in the defense of their own children when it comes to outside public criticism, I couldn't see old George taking too kindly to what's being said about his son by others.

    But given also the substantive public record of both men, I think one is on pretty safe ground to say that Mitt Romney is certainly no George Romney.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Well you know I'm broken (none / 0) (#21)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 11:28:28 AM EST
    I'm on the sidelines cheering that Harry Reid is being labeled a not nice person.  Finally.....some useful PR in a country that fawns over not nice people.

    Parent
    Jon Stewart is an incisive (none / 0) (#34)
    by KeysDan on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 12:55:48 PM EST
    political analyst vis a vie comedy. However, my view is that Jon may be trying too hard to be even -handed in his routines--after all Senator Reid's sources are not the first to be unnamed in the campaign (or in governance). And, Romney has a great opportunity to make a fool of the majority leader by releasing his tax returns that would show he paid his fair share of taxes, including explanations for his massive IRA and gift taxes. As for Reid's reference to the father, the context seems to be George Romney's voluntary release of multiple-years of tax returns in his run for the presidency. And, speculating on the positions or acting on behalf of the deceased is ordinarily bad form, but may not bear the same sensitivity to either Reid or Romney.

    Parent
    would show he paid his fair share of taxes (none / 0) (#37)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 01:10:23 PM EST

    ...Romney has a great opportunity to make a fool of the majority leader by releasing his tax returns that would show he paid his fair share of taxes...

    Are you serious?  Obama has made clear that 100% compliance with current tax law for folks like Romney is far less than what "fair share" demands.

    Parent

    Not sure I grasp the meaning (none / 0) (#53)
    by KeysDan on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 02:26:32 PM EST
    of your comment. But, then, it appears we are even, since you did not seem to grasp mine.

    Parent
    My meaning (none / 0) (#56)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 02:34:20 PM EST

    My meaning was that by Obama's standards it is impossible to show that your fair share, no matter how much you paid.

    Parent
    Still not communicating it seems, (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by KeysDan on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 03:30:02 PM EST
    but if clarification is helpful, "fair share" is part of a comment I wrote, not President Obama. Hence, fair share by my lights would be at least something over zero. Perhaps more in line with what is in proportion to what working citizens pay--something a presidential candidate should be willing to demonstrate. Romney has shown pliability in courting the right wing, so it does seem curious that on the matter of his tax returns he is resistant to even Conservatives calls to release multiple tax returns. It is not unreasonable, therefore, to assume his returns would be politically embarrassing or that they may have crossed the line. However, Romney has a remedy at his disposal that would prove both Senator Reid and me wrong.

    Parent
    Romney knows... (none / 0) (#57)
    by kdog on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 02:45:51 PM EST
    he is getting over, even if he did follow tax law to the letter. Hence his reluctance to release the record...  

    I mean I thought he was proud of  his "success" (his definition of success, not mine or most humans), and by extension the "success" of his accountants;)

    Parent

    With only three months to go (none / 0) (#4)
    by NYShooter on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 10:31:01 AM EST
    in the National election, Obama seems to be doing o.k. His somewhat more aggressive posture, together with Romney's incredible ineptitude have kept the polls fairly close, with a slight bias for the President.

    However, two things should give Democrats pause: The first is that Obama's being o.k, is really not o.k. By any reasonable assessment he should be blowing Romney's doors off. That the polls are this close, with Romney running a truly horrific campaign, leads me to believe that Mitt's numbers can only get better from here.

    The second, and probably more dangerous threat, is the massive voter repression drive taking place by the Republicans. One of my major complaints against the Democratic Leadership these past several decades is that their slow capture by the moneyed interests of Wall St. and Corporations  has made them complacent in their attempt to widen their appeal. It seems their only interest is in The Presidential contests, leaving Congress, State Houses, Governorships, and the courts to the Republicans. This is why the R's have had such great success in expanding their power even while their policies are anathema to normal, average Americans.

    Because we don't know, with any degree of accuracy, the damage the suppression attempt will have, traditional polling may be way, way off base. How many people saying they will vote for Obama will find, when it's too late, that they can't?

    While the story has been reported, it has been muted, and hasn't received nearly the attention it should be getting. Our Democracy is in danger of complete destruction yet its being treated as "business as usual" between the Parties.

    Like Global warming, we'll pay attention when it's too late.


    First, can I just say that I hate (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by Anne on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 12:09:27 PM EST
    the horse race stuff?  I guess it would be more fun if Obama had been the kind of Democrat the country and the economy needed, and all signs were pointing toward him putting to rest once and for all the idea that the GOP - at least this GOP - actually has any answers for the problems that plague us - but he wasn't, he isn't and they aren't.  If anything, I think the signs point to Obama really getting his austerity groove on in the next four years, and some of the "tactical support" we're providing in some of the world's trouble spots becoming  more operational.

    Obama should be positioned to be the equivalent of the US Olympic basketball team playing against the GOP's Tunisia, but instead, we seem to be watching a version of the badminton match that both sides were trying to lose.

    And please DO NOT get me started on voter suppression; it makes me so angry I can barely speak about it.  Maybe all people need to know about Republicans is that whenever they're worried about being able to win an election, they put their big, fat thumbs on the scales.  Proudly.  

    Aside from the deliberate efforts by the GOP to suppress the vote, I think the governance and conduct of both parties will be shown to depress the vote.  And I don't think anyone can argue that it isn't just massively depressing, no matter how or from what angle you look at it.


    Parent

    With regards to your first point, (none / 0) (#5)
    by observed on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 10:33:12 AM EST
    elections tend to be close in recent years. Voters are already decided.
    Romney could be proposing to nuke Canada, and he would still get 40% of the vote.


    Parent
    True, but my point (none / 0) (#8)
    by NYShooter on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 10:41:55 AM EST
    was that many traditional voters of yesterday may find themselves to be inelligible tomorrow.....when it's too late.

    Historical norms may be distorted this year.

    Parent

    Well... (none / 0) (#11)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 10:53:08 AM EST
    ...seems like you forgot to mention why Obama isn't fairing so well, people, including his base, just are not happy with his governance.

    Post GWB, this race should be a shoe-in no matter the republican candidate, especially fatcat Romney.  And we are going to here 5000 reasons why those mean republicans aren't playing fair, and while most are legitimate, if Obama hadn't ignored us, the 99%, in leu of the 1%, it wouldn't matter.  No suppression would overcome the lead Obama should have over the party that put us into a massive recession, who's candidate wants to revive the same policies.

    It really ticks me off, not only did he rule from the right, he might actually give the republicans the presidency because of it.

    Parent

    Once again, (none / 0) (#17)
    by NYShooter on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 11:12:23 AM EST
    I agree with all you said.

    But, be that as it may, my point is that we don't even have an accurate way to poll/predict the outcome because this suppression drive is uncharted territory. With so many Republican Governors, presiding over Republican State Houses, the number of dispossessed voters could be in the hundreds of thousands. The Democrats, now that its too late to stop the legislation, have panicked at the potentially suicidal effect of these new laws, and have taken to the courts to try and fend off their implementation. But, there again, the republicans have been more aggressive in voting in Radically right wing judges.

    The sad fact is that Democrats just suck at politicking.

    Parent

    And I Agree with You... (none / 0) (#24)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 11:37:09 AM EST
    ...but unprecedented, not sure about that.  And not sure that all the dem hype is accurate.  A million people in Philly, come on.  I don't believe that number.  And of the people effected, how many are going to get ID's before November.  And how many courts are going to at least do whatever they do to pause the law while they rule or just rule against it.

    It's not something new, if R's didn't lie, cheat, steal, and disenfranchise, they wouldn't exist.  It even mentioned a lot of white folks in suburbs are going to be hopping mad when they show up to vote and can't because their license is expired.

    It's BS for sure, but I disagree about the actual effect.  We should be more worried about those GD voting machines, which last time, were still vulnerable to hacking.

    And according to this article, there is no racial skew for expired licenses, it disfavors the elderly, but not in any political sense.

    Like 2000, the only way the dirty tricks work if it's a nearly even race.  I think once they debate, Romney tanks.  And by tank, I mean that sliver of people who haven't decided (not to be confused with 'Independents') start heavily leaning towards Obama.

    And as far as the polls, I have gotten about 10 calls on my cell, and I hangup immediately, who in the hell has time or patience for it, that's really what I would like to know.

    Parent

    Think back (none / 0) (#99)
    by jbindc on Fri Aug 03, 2012 at 08:38:55 AM EST
    With so many Republican Governors, presiding over Republican State Houses, the number of dispossessed voters could be in the hundreds of thousands.

    Know when a lot of this happened?  2008 - the same year Obama came to office.  Part of the reason is that many people went and voted for him, but did not vote downticket for the rest of the party.  Some of that blame lies, not with the "Republicans are more aggressive", but at the feet of the Obama campaign for not trying to party build, and instead focusing on the candidate at the top of the ticket.  And now we are reaping what they've sown.

    Parent

    Just out of curiosity, who do you think makes up (none / 0) (#20)
    by Farmboy on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 11:28:18 AM EST
    Obama's base? I ask because current polling shows that eighty-some percent of registered Democrats approve of his job performance, yet you state that
    "Obama isn't fairing so well, people, including his base, just are not happy with his governance."
    This has me wondering as to whom you are referring as his base if not the Democrats, or if you hold a really tough rubric that defines Obama's percentage of job approval among Democrats as not faring well. Thanks.

    Parent
    Maybe (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by lentinel on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 02:14:15 PM EST
    what people previously described as being his base are not in fact registered Democrats.

    So registered Democrats could be fine with him, but not the young, the poor, the disenfranchised, the environmentalists, the people wanting peace, the people dedicated to the preservation rather than the destruction of civil liberties, people not especially enamored of a president mulling over a kill list, offing American citizens at will... etc.

    Parent

    Opinion (none / 0) (#29)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 12:03:24 PM EST
    Just from the daily chatter here, with a couple exceptions, not many seem to think he's doing a good job, myself included.  I really thought this was a good representation of the base, but not so.  

    I am surprised at that number, but it pretty much says what it says, the base likes the guy, or at 8 in 10 and that I was wrong in my assumption.  Now I am curious as to who thinks he doing a good job, or rather why.  I get voting against Romney, but to actually approve of Obama's performance stymies me.

    Parent

    There's (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by lentinel on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 02:20:55 PM EST
    that "likable" factor again.

    W. was "likable" wasn't he?

    I think people have become so disenfranchised - striped of any power to vote for someone who represents their positions on issues - that it comes down to which behemoth is more "likable".

    We elect a toastmaster who occasionally entertains us and then spends the rest of his time picking our pockets.

    Parent

    "W. was "likable" wasn't he?" (none / 0) (#92)
    by Repack Rider on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 07:43:11 PM EST
    In some other universe, perhaps.  I know the press made the claim, but they also said there were WMD in Iraq.  We all know W was a smug, cowardly, not very bright, drug-damaged moron who would not have passed the written exam for janitor.

    Who could like a person like that?

    Parent

    Beg to differ... (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by kdog on Fri Aug 03, 2012 at 09:14:05 AM EST
    he went downhill when he changed opiates, from booze to religion.

    If he never quit drinking, he'd be a likeable trust fund baby squandering his family money, while doing no harm to the rest of the country.

    Parent

    My (none / 0) (#103)
    by lentinel on Sat Aug 04, 2012 at 02:26:54 AM EST
    sometimes theory is that smoke should be offered to all of these guy when they're getting into some powwow about bombing somebody or some covert ops or some such... and they might find that they drift a bit and the urgency to drone or bomb fades a bit in favor of watching reruns of I love Lucy.

    Parent
    Who could like a person like that? (none / 0) (#102)
    by lentinel on Sat Aug 04, 2012 at 02:24:14 AM EST
    Not me.

    But, he was winning likability polls.

    I wouldn't want to be in the same room with the guy.

    But the current WH occupant makes me a little nervous as well.

    Parent

    If you're basing your impressions on some of the (none / 0) (#32)
    by Farmboy on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 12:19:33 PM EST
    comments in threads, I understand completely where you're coming from. Thanks. In my own opinion I don't think TL makes a good litmus test of what the Dem base thinks. I think many folks here love to talk politics but also enjoy heckling politicians of all stripe.

    Sometimes I picture it like the old Muppet Show theatre, only everyone is doing their Statler and Waldorf impressions as opposed to being on the stage or in the seats.

    As to why I am one of the Dems who holds a generally positive view of Obama's performance as President, this isn't a bad place to look - and the author cites sources.

    Parent

    Right (none / 0) (#39)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 01:28:08 PM EST
    That list... I made maybe 1/3 of the way, I disagree with much of it, or even that those are highlights that Obama should get credit for, or that the claims are accurate.  Like the first thing listed:
    Despite the characterizations of some, Obama's success rate in winning congressional votes on issues was an unprecedented 96.7% for his first year in office.  Though he is often cited as superior to Obama, President Lyndon Johnson's success rate in 1965 was only 93%.

    Stats taken from a Jan 2010 article to re-enforce a May 2012 article about 2009.  And the metric used,  "...the votes of 2009 in which Obama made his preference clear".  While true, not really accurate in the presentation.  What is his rate of success when the article was written, not 2+ years ago.

    And what does that have to do with anything, sure ACA made it through, but damn it was compromised down to tweaks, it is in no way an overhaul.  Not exactly the stuff of champs when you have the Presidency, the House, and the Senate.

    The few other links I clicked, were clearly pro-Obama sites.  And really, are Wallstreet and the Housing market really wins for Obama, he's barely scratched the surface in ensuring we don't have a repeat.

    He's done things, but he is the President.  And not to be a d1ck, but I could go to a Obama hater site and get just as an impressive list with just as reliable sources and stat bending.

    Is he better than Mitt, surely, I just don't see how his job performance could be in the approval area.  Maybe compared to the last guy, but I really expect more.  He was asleep in regards to jobs, he woke up to save the auto industry, which was really good, but it not right to let Americans go jobless and then start the lip service at election about what you are going to do.  

    I have always though the government should have jobs for every person that wants to work.  Maybe a sh1t job, making a sh1t wage, but if any American want to turn labor into cash, they always have that available.  My point is I think a President should at the very least make income availability, jobs, the utmost priority.  Maybe not what I mention, but I am disappointed by Obama's failure to concentrate on what plagues on the most.  

    Parent

    If (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by lentinel on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 02:26:25 PM EST
    Despite the characterizations of some, Obama's success rate in winning congressional votes on issues was an unprecedented 96.7% for his first year in office.

    So how come he can't get anything that I care about done?

    All I read is that the answer is that those neanderthal republicans block him at every turn.

    So how can his supporters say that he has been blocked by congressional republicans, and at the same time crow about his stellar performance in winning congressional votes?

    Parent

    One big difference that I see between most Dem (none / 0) (#64)
    by Farmboy on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 03:02:08 PM EST
    sites and the hater sites is that while you and I may not agree on describing something Obama has done as being a "success", we can at least look at the facts and circumstances in order to have a discussion. We don't need to impugn the President's character to get our points across.

    Haters, and hater sites, don't want a discussion. They just like to reach into their diapers and come up with an oozing handful of soft bigotry to fling at the walls. As Jonathan Chait puts it:

    The entire key to the rise of the Republican Party from the mid-sixties through the nineties was that white Americans came to see the Democrats as taking money from the hard-working white middle class and giving it to a lazy black underclass.

    Those jobs you (and I) want the gov't to create? Think about that concept in terms of the Chait quote. Take tax money from working folks just so ne'er-do-wells can hold up a shovel? Yeah, that'll go over big with the haters.

    Parent

    Totally Agree... (none / 0) (#78)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 04:13:40 PM EST
    ...but not on Obama.

    Not really a big deal considering I live in Texas, my vote and $4 might get you a coffee at Starbucks.

    My main beef with Obama is jobs.  And it's one thing to try and fail, it quite another to never try, well sans the stimulus.  But I have a bunch of beefs with a lot of other issues like drones, spying on Americans, the TSA, medical mary jane or DEA, GITMO, and on and on.  I think if he really worked on jobs, the rest would be easier to swallow.  And I almost forgot, Geithner and many policies surrounding that mess.

    As for the quote, seems like a black President could have done more to change that belief.  After all, minorities are feeling the recession a hell of a lot worse then Anglos.

    And all of this is about Obama's job performance, certainly not advocating voting for Romney.  I really wish the party would have put up a primary candidate.

    Parent

    The daily chatter here (none / 0) (#38)
    by CoralGables on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 01:21:41 PM EST
    Okay! I'll quit my whining (none / 0) (#43)
    by nycstray on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 01:47:59 PM EST
    after one last one :)

    Every routine hung at some point. The 2 Americans on beam, hung right at the beginning and didn't stream until the middle of the next person or after the scoring. Finally saw complete routines on the floor. The last 3 streamed pretty well.  Do you think NBC did this on purpose so I would have to watch prime-time?! lol!~ Oh and anywhere from 2-7 commercials at a shot. Wow. Headbangingly bad crew they have @ NBConline.

    Parent

    The thing (none / 0) (#51)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 02:21:31 PM EST
    is that the party has declined in numbers so Obama has lost his "base" in some ways but he's doing okay I guess with the group of people that still call themselves Democrats.

    Parent
    Count me as someone who's puzzled by (none / 0) (#67)
    by Anne on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 03:08:50 PM EST
    poll results like the ones you mentioned.  While I do know Dems who still think Obama is the greatest, I also know a lot of Dems who aren't very happy - either they are crushingly disappointed and disillusioned or they are sanguine about who Obama turned out to be.  And often, the people I know rate Obama higher after thinking about how much worse the Republicans are or would be.  It's like the answer is really, "well, considering how much worse it could be, yeah, I guess I'm happy with Obama.  I know I wouldn't be happy with the Republicans."

    But if 80+ percent of Dems approve of Obama's job performance, shouldn't his overall approval rating be higher?  Should he still be struggling to get more than 50% of voters to pick him over Romney?  Are these numbers a reflection of there being fewer registered Democrats?

    I don't know - I'm not much of a poll-person.  They never convinced me to buy gum ("four out of five dentists recommend..."), and they don't generally convince me I should or shouldn't be voting for a particular candidate.  


    Parent

    Having performed enough statistical analysis in my (none / 0) (#84)
    by Farmboy on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 04:43:23 PM EST
    day, one thing to keep in mind with these polls is that they usually employ a 5-point Likert scale: 1 being strongly disapprove, 2 disapprove, 3 neutral, 4 approve, and 5 strongly approve. The 81% approval numbers they release are comprised of the 4s (eh, he's okay) and 5s (do the loaves and fishes bit again!) summed, but we don't know the modality. How many folks are approving, and how many strongly approving? Same goes for the disapproval numbers - what's the mix of responses?

    As to Obama's overall numbers, well, the GOP base is about the same size at the Dem base, and the GOP base despises the President with all the fury they can muster. (That's not an exaggeration: their disapproval rating is 90%)

    You can't even use his overall approval to figure out what the non-party voters want or will do. For example in November of 2010 Obama's ratings were the same as they were after the bin Laden announcement months later - yet the non-party voters went to the GOP.

    Most Dems I talk to (and myself) aren't too excited or disappointed by Obama's job performance. More promises have been kept than broken; some things have been accomplished, along with some things that shouldn't have been done; and there's much left to do. Being less happy with Romney doesn't enter the conversation. It's far more along the lines of, "I wouldn't trust Mitt to pass the collection plate, much less run the White House."

    I agree with the sentiment that polls on their own shouldn't be used to convince. If the gov't had listened to the overwhelming majority of doctors in the 1950s about polio, Salk wouldn't have been allowed to test his vaccine as they thought he was nuts.

    Parent

    Not sure about this part (none / 0) (#36)
    by ruffian on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 01:07:01 PM EST
    By any reasonable assessment he should be blowing Romney's doors off.

    What reasonable assessment would show you that any incumbent should be blowing the opposition's doors off when unemployment is over 8% and not improving?
    I agree that Obama could have done a lot of better things for the economy and thus be in better shape now, but given the state of things, I am not surprised at the close race.

    Parent

    Gotcha (none / 0) (#40)
    by NYShooter on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 01:40:12 PM EST
    "By any reasonable assessment he should be blowing Romney's doors off."

    Obviously,
    I took certain poetic license that political givens were understood by, and accepted by, most TL members. A President who was swept into office, following, arguably, the worst President in our history, armed with a huge mandate, and support for the ideals he promulgated in his campaign, and further strengthened by majorities in Congress, he could have, and should have, moved aggressively towards implementing those ideals. And, had he taken advantage of all those weapons at his disposal his popularity would be such that any political opponent to his re-election would be a sacrificial lamb at best.

    But, I didn't think it necessary to spell that out, and doing so would be simply redundant.

    But, in response to your comments, Yes, President Obama, considering his performance in office, and the current sad state of the economy, should consider himself extremely lucky that the race is as competative as it is.

    Parent

    Better! (none / 0) (#41)
    by ruffian on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 01:43:13 PM EST
    By any reasonable assessment he should have done a better job. I agree with you there!

    But even that statement will get some argument around here, of the 'I knew he would not do a good job' variety.

    Parent

    I think one of the problems (none / 0) (#98)
    by Rupe on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 10:49:12 PM EST
    is that our collective memory is extraordinarily short.  The media is worthless in reminding us of why we are where we are.  Obama has been a disappointment, certainly, and logically it doesn't make sense for the electorate to vote in the party and support the same policies that have f*cked us so magnificently, but all we ever think is "what have YOU done for me lately" and if the answer is, "not much", then the swing goes to the other guy.  Depressing, all round.

    Parent
    Anyone have a link to Gymnastics on BBC? (none / 0) (#13)
    by nycstray on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 11:02:40 AM EST
    NBC is effin' killing me with a wonky stream and commercials every freakin' couple of minutes (if that!). And the commercials are considerably louder than the broadcast. Arrgh!

    Oh, and the commercials stream just fine! (none / 0) (#14)
    by nycstray on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 11:03:35 AM EST
    Mitt the creepazoid. (none / 0) (#22)
    by observed on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 11:30:08 AM EST
    What would his father think about

    this?
    I bet he shows his dog more respect.

    Yep. The rich really ARE different. (none / 0) (#30)
    by shoephone on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 12:07:52 PM EST
    And Romney really is a sociopath. I want this video to go far and wide.

    The problem, of course, is that Obama has been no better on medical marijuana. In fact, his DOJ has been running around the country shutting down dozens of MM operations in states where they are legal.

    Parent

    Jst received my sample ballot (none / 0) (#44)
    by fishcamp on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 01:50:58 PM EST
    for the primaries today and we do need a photo ID to vote here in Florida or at least Monroe county.  Wish we had medical marijuana.  It seems to help both the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat.

    Don't know about (none / 0) (#45)
    by NYShooter on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 01:56:57 PM EST
    medical marijuana.

    But, I understand Florida is the Oxycontin Capital of the U.S. Maybe that would help:)

    Parent

    Plenty of reefer in Fla... (none / 0) (#49)
    by kdog on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 02:15:30 PM EST
    medicinal or recreational...I never coulda lived there without it.  Nothing legal though, but only a bootlicker would let that stop them.  Or an employer who asks for pee-pee on the regular, though thats why god created GNC;)

    Oxy?  Too strong Shooter, too much naseau.  Percocet?  Just right;)

    Parent

    New York DNA Database (none / 0) (#54)
    by vicndabx on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 02:27:31 PM EST
    On August 1st, Governor Cuomo's all-crimes DNA bill went into effect. This law, signed into law by the Governor in March, makes New York the first state in the nation to require collection of DNA samples, a modern-day fingerprint, from anyone convicted of a felony or misdemeanor. Previously, only 48 percent of offenders convicted of a Penal Law offense were required to provide a DNA sample.

    NYS Press Release here.

    NYCLU's coverage and objections here.

    Some misdemeanors under NYS Penal Law:
    Adultery
    Issuing a bad check
    Unlawful assembly

    Misdemeanors? (none / 0) (#58)
    by Zorba on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 02:45:52 PM EST
    Really?  Really???
    What the he!! Is the matter with Cuomo?  I thought that he was supposed to be a "Democrat".  
    In so very many ways:  The Democratic Party, I hardly knew you.        :-(

    Parent
    Crazy... (none / 0) (#59)
    by kdog on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 02:48:41 PM EST
    felony is invasive and intrusive enough...but misdemeanors?  Everybody is guilty of a misdemeanor, its just that everybody doesn't get snared.  Cuomo should have just proposed DNA collection for his database at birth.

    Nothing is sacred and private anymore...not even your god damn DNA.  

    Parent

    My friend just got a misdemeanor (none / 0) (#82)
    by oculus on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 04:39:41 PM EST
    charged against her for having her dog off leash.  She researched b/4 court date and found out there is a diversion program--dog training class.  City ordinance.  Ridiculous.  

    Parent
    CA state law provides for collection (none / 0) (#83)
    by oculus on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 04:42:35 PM EST
    of DNA sample from felony arrestees.  No conviction required.  But 9th Circuit Court of Appeals will review:  LAT

    Parent
    Well they allegedly (none / 0) (#55)
    by fishcamp on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 02:29:14 PM EST
    shut down all those pill mills that people were flying in to score thousands.  Busses picked them up and drove everybody from mill to mill.  But yeah there's plenty of home grown down here.  Grow houses get busted almost daily up in Miami.  People also drive into canals and store fronts on a regular basis.  fishing is still safe...usually.

    Fishing is safe... (none / 0) (#60)
    by kdog on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 02:49:50 PM EST
    and possibly lucrative...down in South Florida ya never know, ya might reel in a long lost kilo!

    Parent
    Please use (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by CoralGables on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 02:58:53 PM EST
    the local terminology when discussing the spoils of South Florida fishing. I believe you would be scouting the waters for Square Grouper. I don't believe there is a bag, size, or slot regulation currently on the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission books for that species. You will need a saltwater license but no picture ID or DNA sample is required.

    Parent
    No DNA samples? (none / 0) (#65)
    by kdog on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 03:04:28 PM EST
    No ID?  Just wait till more people on public assistance start fishing, it's a comin' CG;)

    Parent
    Those daze of kilos (none / 0) (#62)
    by fishcamp on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 03:01:27 PM EST
    floating in are long gone.  It's all containerized or something.  But years ago I found a bail and drug it up into the center of a mangrove island.  There were four others in various stages of drying out.  I learned when they float real low in the water you don't want them.  There are duffle bags of the white stuff found when they get panic tossed into the Gulf Stream down near Mexico.  The stream flows right past us, on up to you, and clear around to England.  Maybe the fishermen in Nova Scotia find floaters up there.  Down here it's definitely the lobster guys that find everything.

    Parent
    I was just joshing... (none / 0) (#72)
    by kdog on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 03:17:59 PM EST
    yet you really did real one in!  Wild fishcamp...wild.

    Most moves over the land border these days I think, till that gets too hot, then back to sea and air.  Rinse and repeat till we realize the tyrannical fool's errand that is prohibition.  

    Parent

    The commercial lobster (none / 0) (#76)
    by fishcamp on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 03:50:02 PM EST
    fishermen are putting their traps out this week for next week;s opening of the season.  Come on down and we can start with 25 traps.  I know guys that have over 300 traps.  That's too many.  But they're out there all the time and see everything.

    Parent
    Lies (none / 0) (#81)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 04:34:32 PM EST
    HERE
    HERE
    HERE
    HERE

    Just saying... square groupers not yet an endangered species.

    Parent

    yeah Scott... (none / 0) (#94)
    by fishcamp on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 08:18:13 PM EST
    it it ain't weird it ain't worth it...

    Parent
    actually Scott... (none / 0) (#95)
    by fishcamp on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 09:00:37 PM EST
    there is still lots of dope floating around out there but we kinda like to keep it to ourselves.  The Feds like to brandish their big successes but the little guys are still bringing it in in a variety of methods.  It  happens but not as much as back in the good old daze.  The lies you mention are minuscule in regards to what's really happening.  Drugs are arriving in massive quantities and there is no way to stop it.

    Parent
    I Forgot to Add... (none / 0) (#101)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Aug 03, 2012 at 10:06:13 AM EST
    ...that I meant 'Lies' to be in a harsh German accent.  I still can't believe some guy just opened a package, snorted it, and died.

    I only Googled it because I could have swore, like last week a bunch of blow washed up, maybe it wasn't Florida.  But I remember thinking, man I haven't read about this since Miami Vice.

    I hear ya, I don't know anyone outside of work that would actually report a find like that.  I love the name Square Grouper.

    Parent

    The police state rears its ugly head again (none / 0) (#79)
    by shoephone on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 04:14:52 PM EST
    Yeah, tasering a 12-year-old girl will keep the country safe! Pigs.

    total nitwits... (none / 0) (#96)
    by fishcamp on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 09:29:11 PM EST
    like tasering a 12 year old girl is going to help the situation.  This taserling phenomena  is getting out of hand and used too often.  I certainly hope I never get tased due to the payback situation.  Toast comes to mind.

    Parent
    Great upcoming entertainment! (none / 0) (#85)
    by shoephone on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 05:06:47 PM EST
    You've Been Trumped, the film documentary of Bad Hair Man's foray into golf course development.

    This (none / 0) (#90)
    by lentinel on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 06:55:20 PM EST
    film, according to the review in the NYTimes, documents the greed and arrogance of Trump as he decimates precious land in order to build a golf resort on the North Sea coast in Scotland.

    The review then balances things by saying, "There are moments when the film's concern for the environment tilts toward sentimentality and even hysteria."

    Those flaky environmentalists - a sentimental and hysterical lot.

    Parent

    Armando calls in to earlier DK radio (none / 0) (#87)
    by oculus on Thu Aug 02, 2012 at 05:30:15 PM EST
    show to defend the badminton team that was disqualified.  Much more interesting, in my opinion, than the earlier endless segment on Chik-fil-A Appreciation Day.