home

Tuesday Open Thread

It's hard to find time to work, follow the Zimmerman trial, and read the news and blog on other topics. Since I have to choose, I'm giving up on "blogging on other topics" for the day.

Here's an open thread, all topics welcome.

< George Zimmerman Trial: Jury Selection Round 2
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


  • Display: Sort:
    Fresh toons at AN AXE LENGTH AWAY (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by Dadler on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 03:28:11 PM EST
    Dadler's little comic blog. Check it out and chuckle. (link)

    And in business news, you'll never again have to hear, "You're going to like the way you look -- I guarantee it." Yes, Men's Wearhouse has fired founder and pitchman George Zimmer. (link) That's cold.

    Creepy Jeff Bezos -- spymaster (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by shoephone on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 04:49:56 PM EST
    I've posted about Microsoft producing cloud computing spy technology for the U.S government before. But, in light of recent events, I think it's worth noting that all the kids want to do it!

    Amazon won a $600 million contract to create spy systems for the government, in a compound right near the CIA compound in Virginia.

    And it's still the case: The melding of corporations and government = fascism.

    And if you're looking for work in the spy field (none / 0) (#9)
    by shoephone on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 04:55:39 PM EST
    the nut of the story is that Amazon is staffing up. You just need the right credentials:

    More than half a billion dollars will buy you a lot of cloud computing, and now, according to postings on Amazon's own jobs site, the company is staffing up to meet the demand the new contract will require. Specifically, Amazon is looking for engineers who already  have a "Top Secret / Sensitive Compartmented Information" clearance, or are willing to go through the elaborate screening process required to get it. TS/SCI is the highest security clearance offered by the US government, and getting it requires having your background thoroughly vetted.


    Parent
    Ah, thank you (none / 0) (#24)
    by sj on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 09:12:27 PM EST
    That explains a great deal.

    Parent
    This should go a long way in winning (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by MO Blue on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 08:04:55 PM EST
    female votes for the Republicans.

    Rep. Phil Gingrey (R-GA) suggested Tuesday that young boys and girls should be enrolled in classes to educate them on gender roles so that they can learn "what's important."

    "Maybe part of the problem is we need to go back into the schools at a very early age, maybe at the grade school level, and have a class for the young girls and have a class for the young boys and say, you know, this is what's important," link

    Love this line:

    "This is what a father does that is may be a little different, maybe -- maybe a little different, maybe a little better than the talent that mom has in a certain area and same things for the young girls, you know, this is what a mom does and this is what's important from the standpoint of that union.

    Of course the father's talent is maybe a little better than the talent that mom has.

    This is the same "medical doctor" that defended Atkin's  statement that in a situation of rape, of a legitimate rape, a woman's body has a way of shutting down so the pregnancy would not occur. He's partly right on that."

    What I want to know is when did they start giving out medical degrees in Cracker Jack boxes.

    I don't think (none / 0) (#21)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 08:20:36 PM EST
    he can top Bill Frist who tried to diagnose Teri Schiavo from spliced video tape.

    We had so called parenting classes in the high school at one time where girls took fake babies home that cried and the girls had to get up in the middle of the night with them and studies showed that 17% of them NEVER wanted to have children after that and conservatives were up in arms about that. Seems to me if someone does not want to get up in the middle of the night with a baby, they should not have one. But then again, conservatives has just become a bunch of wackos.  

    Parent

    Hey... I know! (none / 0) (#23)
    by sj on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 09:11:24 PM EST
    The girls can take home ec and the boys can take shop.  That should do it.

    Parent
    right corner like I used to, is it just me or did that disappear for others as well?

    Noticed it for the first time last night, (none / 0) (#3)
    by Anne on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 03:46:14 PM EST
    then it looked fine for me today until about an hour ago, when I noticed that the heading is there, but nothing listed.

    Never realized how often I check it until I looked and it wasn't there.

    Parent

    Ya, I use it all the time. (none / 0) (#4)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 03:50:30 PM EST
    Yea, same here (none / 0) (#5)
    by Zorba on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 04:10:02 PM EST
    The recent comments notifications are on and off.  Sometimes they're there, and sometimes not.  Extremely annoying.

    Parent
    Me, too. It disappeared last night. (none / 0) (#6)
    by caseyOR on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 04:15:20 PM EST
    Reappeared this morning. And is now gone again.

    Very weird things happening here at TL.  :-)

    Parent

    I just emailed (none / 0) (#7)
    by Zorba on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 04:20:15 PM EST
    Jeralyn to let her know about this.  She doesn't always read the Open Threads.

    Parent
    same here (none / 0) (#11)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 06:48:23 PM EST
    I have asked Colin to check into it.  I noticed it Sunday night and yesterday it was fine so we thought it was a fluke. Guess not!  We'll check into it, thanks!

    Parent
    Not showing up for me either (none / 0) (#27)
    by sj on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 09:22:46 PM EST
    and now the [new] comment designator is missing even on old threads.

    Parent
    Don't Shoot The Messenger (none / 0) (#10)
    by squeaky on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 05:09:15 PM EST
    Greenwald, Pearlstein et al..  worth a read

    Update I: To be clear, I'm not referring to Rick Perlstein in this post, who is anything but a Big Foot Villager. (I hadn't even read his piece when I wrote this.) I'm friends with both Glenn and Rick and I'm sorry to see them at odds. Rick's point is different than the journalists I'm talking about who are questioning Greenwald's credentials and looking for reasons to discredit his work.

    Greenwald's most rabid supporters are very difficult to deal with --- I know, I've been in their crosshairs plenty of times myself. And Glenn is, right now, in the middle of a whirlwind, under tremendous pressure.

    Digby

    People should question Greenwald's (1.00 / 3) (#14)
    by SuzieTampa on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 07:00:05 PM EST
    credentials as a journalist. As I just put in the comments on Rick's article ... I can't remember a time when Greenwald admitted wrong and apologized. His can be crazy and over the top. Remember when he accused Katha Pollitt of "gross accusatory innuendo"? Or, when he accused Ann Bartow of Feminist Law Professors of "drowning in misogyny and contempt for women." Or, when he attacked Imani Gandy on Twitter until Jennifer Pozner stepped in and wrote: "Turns out I have to start 2012 by explaining to a respected progressive journalist why cheap rape metaphors are bogus."

    Even in his private life, he manipulates facts by saying his partner can't come to the U.S. from Brazil because the U.S. doesn't recognize same-sex partners for the purpose of immigration. But gay people can immigrate in other ways.  

    There's a myth that he started his blog Unclaimed Territory to air his progressive views. In 2005, he was still praising Bush and criticizing Clinton. He attacked Seymour Hirsch. He wrote: "It is illegal to disclose classified information to individuals not cleared to receive it. Period." His blog named Harry Blackmun on a list of the "10 worst Americans" for Roe v. Wade. He praised Bush for not dumping Rumsfeld or Rove.

    After writing a book criticizing Bush (who had disappointed him for not being a "true conservative"), Greenwald was embraced by progressives.    

    Perhaps his biggest "civil rights" case was successfully defending Matthew Hale, leader of a white-supremacist church. After one of Hale's followers went on a shooting spree, survivors sued Hale. The Southern Poverty Law Center, the Center for Constitutional Rights and the Anti-Defamation League condemned Hale.

    In 2004, the Chicago Tribune published a column by two people associated with the ADL, arguing that Hale had groomed the killer, befriending him and giving him an award. They argued that a leader who encourages followers to commit violence is doing more than expressing his 1st Amendment rights.

    Greenwald then set up a straw man, writing: "The vast majority of people find Hale's racist beliefs to be odious and evil. Far more odious, and far more dangerous, is the belief that criminalizing certain viewpoints by calling them "hate speech" is something that can be done while still retaining our 1st Amendment freedoms."

    I can provide links to anyone who's interested.

    Parent

    Seems there are areas where you are (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by MO Blue on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 07:31:54 PM EST
    manipulating information to discredit Greenwald. Especially this:

    Even in his private life, he manipulates facts by saying his partner can't come to the U.S. from Brazil because the U.S. doesn't recognize same-sex partners for the purpose of immigration. But gay people can immigrate in other ways.

    Greenwald is stating the facts as they exist here in the U.S. Current immigration law does not allow a U.S. citizen in a same-sex relationship to sponsor his or her spouse or partner. Here is CNN stating the exact same thing regarding another couple.

    But current immigration law does not allow a U.S. citizen in a same-sex relationship to sponsor his or her spouse or partner. There are nearly 30,000 such couples in America who now find themselves in the crosshairs of two critical national debates: the 1996 Defense of Marriage Act, or DOMA, and immigration reform.

    Even if Servetas were to marry Amaral in the District of Columbia or one of the 12 states that allow gay marriage, that marriage would be invisible as far as immigration law is concerned. Servetas could not sponsor her wife because of DOMA, which prohibits the federal government from recognizing same-sex marriages. CNN

    How about some more facts:

    Many of the saddest personal stories we hear at Marriage Equality USA are from binational couples. Same-sex partners of U.S. citizens and permanent residents are sometimes faced with the prospect of deportation because of the absence of legal marriage rights. Often times both partners leave family and friends for countries that will accept gay couples. Marriage matters because American citizens have the right to fall in love with someone from another country. But in the case of gay people, our government is essentially telling us NOT to fall in love, to accept our second-class position, and allow our loved one to leave, never to return.

    U.S. immigration is largely based on the principle of family unification, which allows U.S. citizens and legal permanent residents to sponsor their spouses (and other family members) for immigration purposes. Same-sex partners of U.S. citizens and permanent residents, however, are not considered "spouses" and are hence excluded from family-based immigration rights. Thousands of lesbian and gay binational couples are kept apart, torn apart or forced to live in fear of being separated.

    Currently, lesbian, gay men, bisexual and transgender Americans in relationships with foreign nationals have no legal way to bring their partners into the United States.* The foreign partner would have to qualify independently, usually by demonstrating some special skill that is needed by employers in the United States. This is very difficult to do, as many people lack the specific skills sought by the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS).  Even if they possess these skills, they would still be subjected to the strict quota limits on legal immigration. U.S. immigration law would also tear apart a foreign same-sex couple if one of them were to get a job in the United States. Under current law, the spouse of a married heterosexual person would be permitted into the country, but the partner of a gay man or lesbian would have to be left behind. (If you are in a same-sex binational relationship, please be sure to read the information listed below for Stop the Deportations - The DOMA Project.)



    Parent
    MO, I agree on the issue (none / 0) (#26)
    by SuzieTampa on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 09:21:13 PM EST
    of gay marriage, but ... Greenwald isn't arguing that U.S. law makes it more difficult for his partner to immigrate; he's saying his partner can't immigrate because of the law. If Greenwald allowed himself to be edited, an editor might help him clarify statements like that.

     

    Parent

    I think that if the important part of (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by Anne on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 08:00:10 PM EST
    this story for you is Greenwald, I would respectfully suggest that you have lost your ability to see the forest for the trees.

    I don't think there's anyone who thinks Glenn is perfect, or that he isn't capable of making a mistake, but this whole NSA story isn't about him.  That you are making it about him plays ever-so-neatly into the hands of those who would prefer you be distracted by credentials - just as they would prefer that we be repulsed by the cowardly computer geek who couldn't even get a high school diploma.

    As for your shots at Glenn's defense of Hale, you might want to remember that this blog is hosted by a criminal defense attorney who was part of the team that defended Timothy McVeigh; I don't imagine she would view with much regard your sneering condemnation of Glenn for his views on the First Amendment.

    Parent

    Pls don't assume what I'm thinking (none / 0) (#29)
    by SuzieTampa on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 10:04:57 PM EST
    I replied to a comment regarding Rick Perlstein riffing on the way Greenwald goes after anyone who disagrees with him.

    I don't think a few comments from me are going to divert the world's eyes from the NSA story, but I do wish more people would read him with a critical eye.

    I don't think Greenwald is important. Little is being said about documentary filmmaker Laura Poitras, who also received the information and helped Greenwald. The Guardian has some great investigative journalists who could have handled the story, and I would have trusted them more.  

    Unlike Greenwald, I'm not an absolutist on the 1st Amendment. I understand that horrible people still have a right to a good defense. But my disgust comes from his insensitivity to Hale's victims.

    I never forget that Jeralyn is a defense attorney, but I think her writing and her approach are much different from Greenwald's.


    Parent

    Generally, I'm no fan of Glenn Greenwald. (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 09:04:04 PM EST
    I often find him grating and smug, especially on television, and I won't disagree with you that he has a hard time acknowledging when he's wrong and backing down graciously.

    But that said, Greenwald's hardly the equivalent of Fox News, and on this NSA fiasco, he appears to be right on the money. Nor do I think he was wrong to defend white supremacist Matthew Hale's First Amendment right to free speech back in 2004.

    As others have asked, please don't shoot the messenger. Glenn Greenwald isn't the story here, any more than is Edward Snowden's pole-dancing girlfriend, and any arguments offered to the contrary are red herrings.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Don't Shoot the Messenger (none / 0) (#17)
    by squeaky on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 07:09:21 PM EST
    Please!!!

    Parent
    James Gandolfini has died. (none / 0) (#12)
    by caseyOR on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 06:50:20 PM EST
    The Sopranos star was traveling in Italy when he suffered a massive heart attack and died. He was only 51.

    He is survived by his wife and two children, the youngest of whom is only 8 months old.

    Condolences to his family and friends.

    Very sad news ideed. (none / 0) (#16)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 07:06:56 PM EST
    He most recently played Defense Sec. Leon Panetta in Kathryn Bigelow's Zero Dark Thirty, and was almost unrecognizable in the role.

    Parent
    Correction: Panetta was CIA Director ... (none / 0) (#25)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 09:16:42 PM EST
    ... at the time of the Bin Laden raid in May 2011, which was the backdrop for Bigelow's film. He had been publicly announced as President Obama's nominee for Defense Secretary a couple weeks prior to the raid, but did not assume the post until July 1 of that year, when Robert Gates officially stepped down.

    Parent
    Sad News. James Gandolfini has died (none / 0) (#13)
    by shoephone on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 06:51:09 PM EST
    They think he had a heart attack. No real info yet.

    Today's Cool Video Offering: (none / 0) (#15)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 07:03:42 PM EST
    Richard Sullivan's "Honolulu: August 14, 1945" has rare 16mm color footage that chronicles the spontaneous street celebrations which erupted across the city on the day Imperial Japan announced it would accept the U.S. terms of unconditional surrender, thus ending the Second World War.

    In a pitching duel (none / 0) (#28)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jun 19, 2013 at 09:58:16 PM EST
    The Beavers stay alive with a 1-0 win over Indiana tonight. Both starters pitched complete games.

    Go Beavs!