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Tuesday Morning Open Thread

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Blog Related
Posted on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 08:52:14 AM EST
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I'll be on Daily Kos Radio with Jesse LaGreca at 11 am Eastern. You can listen here.

Here is the podcast:

Open Thread.

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    Tuesday Morning Open Thread | 202 comments (202 topical)
    Cleaning the kitchen with BTD (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 10:25:49 AM EST
    I should probably find a new home for my computer speaker system, before I learn how to cook or something.

    Tracy! (5.00 / 1) (#128)
    by Zorba on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 09:57:46 PM EST
    Cooking isn't difficult!  I'm sure that you're a perfectly fine cook.  You're a very smart, talented woman.     ;-)

    Parent
    Seriously Tracy (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by ZtoA on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 10:09:27 PM EST
    Its all attitude! AND presentation. Get some Kraft mac 'n cheese or grocery store deli food and put it into a nice family heirloom bowl, make a show (like "I'm so not making a big deal about this but....") when presenting the mac 'n cheese, add a few edible yummy and beautiful garnishes and voila! Gourmet cook! Geez, if anyone could do it you could. You just need to keep from laughing.

    Parent
    Oh, groan (5.00 / 1) (#151)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Jul 25, 2012 at 12:21:22 AM EST
    boxed Mac and Cheese, including Kraft, sucks so spectacularly.  Fixing from scratch hardly takes any more time and it's delicious.

    Parent
    I love mac and cheese (none / 0) (#172)
    by sj on Wed Jul 25, 2012 at 10:00:23 AM EST
    Hate Kraft version, and have had only spectacular fails when I've tried to make it myself.  A good, quick  recipe would be much appreciated.

    Parent
    Recipe (5.00 / 1) (#176)
    by Zorba on Wed Jul 25, 2012 at 10:23:46 AM EST
    Baked mac n' cheese

        ½ lb. elbow macaroni
        ¼ cup butter
        2 Tbsp. all-purpose flour
        2 tsp. dry mustard
        1 cup milk
        2 eggs
        salt, pepper, paprika (optional) to taste
        half pound (or more!) grated sharp cheddar

    Boil macaroni in salted water until done and drain. Meanwhile, melt butter in a heavy saucepan; add flour, dry mustard, salt, and pepper (and paprika, if desired) and mix thoroughly until there are no lumps. Add the milk and heat while stirring until the mixture thickens; remove from heat.  Beat the eggs; slowly fold the sauce into the eggs (and I mean very slowly, a bit at a time, or you will curdle the eggs). Add one half to three quarters of the cheese.

    In a two quart casserole dish, mix together the macaroni and cheese sauce. Top with the remaining cheese. Bake at 350°F. for 30 minutes.

    You can get creative with the cheese, and use any combination that you like.  You can also add a little cayenne pepper to the seasonings.  You can add some cooked bacon bits.  You can saute some onion in the butter before you add the flour, etc.  You can also melt a little butter, mix some dry bread crumbs or, better, panko, into the butter and sprinkle that on top of the cheese already sprinkled on top.  It's pretty free-form.  I like to use a lot of cheese.  Mmmmmmmm....cheese!

    Parent

    mmmm... cheese (none / 0) (#177)
    by sj on Wed Jul 25, 2012 at 10:35:14 AM EST
    Thanks!

    Parent
    At the risk of sending you into (5.00 / 2) (#178)
    by Anne on Wed Jul 25, 2012 at 10:36:46 AM EST
    a mac `n' cheese swoon, here is a link to a recipe - actually, Martha Stewart's recipe - that includes pictures.

    It's not all that quick initially, but it makes a lot - have a mac 'n' cheese party! - and it re-heats like a dream, which means that if you can put some time in on the front end, you can have dreamy mac `n' cheese for breakfast, lunch and dinner on the back end (and the, um, "back end" is where it's likely to end up if you eat all of it yourself!)

    Now, what I like to sometimes do is change it up and sometimes add chicken or ham, or mushrooms, The dish doesn't need it, but it's a nice addition.  And I'm not big on nutmeg, so I either leave it out, or just put in a tiny bit.

    My apologies if you end up drooling on something important!


    Parent

    Between you and Zorba (5.00 / 2) (#180)
    by sj on Wed Jul 25, 2012 at 10:45:13 AM EST
    I'm going into a cheese coma just thinking about it...

    Parent
    Nutmeg doesn't hurt, but (5.00 / 1) (#190)
    by Zorba on Wed Jul 25, 2012 at 05:12:33 PM EST
    I prefer some dried mustard.  If you use nutmeg, it has to be freshly grated, from a whole nutmeg.  It's a completely different experience from the ground nutmeg most people get.
    I like her mix of cheeses- I've used similar mixtures.  If you like blue cheese, you can throw some of that in, too.  Very different, but very good.  Smoked Gruyère and/or smoked cheddar provides a different taste, too.

    Parent
    Also a dry mustard fan; I like a little (5.00 / 2) (#194)
    by Anne on Wed Jul 25, 2012 at 07:25:32 PM EST
    zing to help cut through some of the richness of the cheese and pasta.

    My favorite part, though, is the crunchy, cheesy part around the edges...

    Parent

    Stop! (5.00 / 1) (#195)
    by Zorba on Wed Jul 25, 2012 at 07:47:01 PM EST
    You're making me want to cook up some baked macaroni and cheese right  now!  Maybe tomorrow, it's getting too late tonight.       ;-)

    Parent
    moment of truth (none / 0) (#174)
    by CST on Wed Jul 25, 2012 at 10:14:27 AM EST
    I adore Annie's boxed mac and cheese.  Add some peas and maybe some cut up sausage and that's a deliciously unhealthy meal.

    Kraft, etc... is terrible.  But Annie's is the stuff right there.

    Parent

    I didn't know about Annie's (5.00 / 2) (#184)
    by sj on Wed Jul 25, 2012 at 12:47:16 PM EST
    So I googled it and found their site.  They have way too many varieties for me to try it out.  I'll try Zorba and Anne's recipes instead :)

    Parent
    LOL! (none / 0) (#136)
    by Zorba on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 10:37:47 PM EST
    Yes, presentation and attitude are important.  But it also isn't that difficult to make mac 'n cheese from scratch.  ;-)

    Parent
    I am not a good cook (5.00 / 2) (#140)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 10:49:43 PM EST
    I can bake, the rest of whatever magic some of you have I did not get.  If I get to multitasking in the kitchen I will graduate to multiburning, scorching, and searing.  I carried both of my children way overdue too, almost burnt.  It is okay, I have accepted that I can't be good at everything.  And I'm good with raw foods.  I make the meanest relish tray you ever saw. I make friends with good cooks, that is how I have survived.  And a few shortcut things I've learned from them over the years.  My husband cooks meat wonderfully.  If I bake a potato and steam a veg, we have a meal.  Holidays take much planning on my part, trying to grasp when the bird goes in and all that.  I always end up burning the rolls.  If they aren't burned the kids don't feel like its a real holiday anymore.

    Parent
    Honestly, Tracy (5.00 / 2) (#145)
    by ZtoA on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 11:09:06 PM EST
    If you can bring any vegetable to the table and anyone would consider eating it you can cook. Good cooking only means if you or anyone else likes to eat that food. Of course there are many levels of connoisseurship to explore...and cooking is an art form, so there's that. My daughter only ate peanut butter and jelly on potato bread for years...and years....and years. But now she is all grown up and even tho she is still a natural vegetarian, she can handle sushi.

    Also, I hope to be able to listen to today's podcast tomorrow. Not sure about bringing my laptop into my studio and broadcasting a podcast, but, (tongue hanging out) I'll try it tomorrow. I so very much want to hear BTD, and you!

    Parent

    Hint: (5.00 / 3) (#146)
    by nycstray on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 11:41:56 PM EST
    Some of the best cooking is the simplest :)

    Parent
    The very best food (5.00 / 2) (#152)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Jul 25, 2012 at 12:24:22 AM EST
    IMO is good ingredients cooked simply.

    Although I do enjoy eating something with a really elegant sauce at a restaurant or a gourmet friend's house, I rely on superior ingredients cooked very simply for my own cooking.

    Parent

    Simple, yummy in season foods (5.00 / 2) (#157)
    by ZtoA on Wed Jul 25, 2012 at 01:02:24 AM EST
    My 16 year old nephew and a buddy or two of his cook dinners with me. Cool? OK they mostly want to make desserts. Hey I can do sugar.

    As CST recently mentioned an ingredient like saffron can be the building block of a meal.  I've been trying to instill in the teen boys the idea that a meal is an experience- the people who will enjoy it, the ingredients and the sources, the prep techniques, the presentation. It is a spiritual moment - the wheel of life...we sit down at some sort of position at a table, then we leave. Then someone clears and resets the table and we assemble again. The buddhist ides of non-permanance is perfectly portrayed by the daily table - it gets set, we congregate and conversate and then leave and then it gets set all over again.

    Chocolate is a great ingredient! Try this....unsweetened bar chocolate, fresh raspberries, a bit of the dinner wine, a bit of nice butter and a bit of sweetener (I use stevia, but I don't tell anyone and they all think its sugar) and make that a sauce (can make it with sweet onions or shallots) and drizzle over slow baked wild salmon. Geez!! slow baked wild salmon.....in itself yum! Of course for a special occasion, not for every day. Its hard to eat responsibly.

    If there was a perfect responsible healthy food I probably would buy it then let it rot in my frige.

    Parent

    although I learned (5.00 / 1) (#179)
    by CST on Wed Jul 25, 2012 at 10:41:05 AM EST
    a little saffron goes a looong way.

    I've still got my "cook in training" wheels on, especially compared to the folks here.  I was pleased with how the rest of it came out though, so I will certainly try again.  Especially as I'm surrounded by fresh seafood!

    I'll save the "dinner party paella" for version 3.0 at least though.  I like my friends to think I know how to cook, it's much better to try things out at home first.

    Parent

    Oh yes, indeed it does (5.00 / 1) (#181)
    by sj on Wed Jul 25, 2012 at 10:53:47 AM EST
    a little saffron goes a looong way
    The McCormick version is mostly an empty bottle.  It's a good thing so little is needed because it is really very expensive.

    Parent
    dear lord! (none / 0) (#182)
    by CST on Wed Jul 25, 2012 at 11:04:59 AM EST
    that's expensive.  I've never tried to buy it in the states.  Glad I picked it up at the source, it wasn't nearly that bad... and I got a decent amount.  Just one more reason to use sparingly.

    Parent
    MT, try roasting or sautéing the (5.00 / 1) (#161)
    by caseyOR on Wed Jul 25, 2012 at 06:17:27 AM EST
    vegetables.  The taste of the vegetables I cook improved markedly when I stopped steaming them, and starting either roasting or sautéing.

    It is oh so easy to do, and tastes like you really worked on them.

    Parent

    So true - a friend made me some (none / 0) (#170)
    by ruffian on Wed Jul 25, 2012 at 09:57:01 AM EST
    roasted asparagus with a drizzle of olive oil and spices last year. So easy and so good!

    Parent
    On the grill, too (none / 0) (#187)
    by Yman on Wed Jul 25, 2012 at 01:07:49 PM EST
    Rub some olive oil on and some salt/pepper/spices and toss them on the grill - roll them over after a few minutes - maybe a squeeze of lemon at the end.

    Fast, easy and healthy.

    Parent

    I put my ipod dock speaker in the cabinet (none / 0) (#9)
    by ruffian on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 10:30:13 AM EST
    above the stove fan. There is an electrical outlet in there and that cabinet is too small to be of much use anyway. Keeps it out of my way, but I can open the cabinet and listen. I keep a plastic bag over it when not in use to keep it clean.

    Parent
    of course, that is a tall people solution (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by ruffian on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 10:32:26 AM EST
    If you can't reach it easily it would not be convenient!

    Parent
    I'm lucky (none / 0) (#11)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 10:35:14 AM EST
    My kitchen area is very large.  The house was built before everyone went greatroom, but whoever built this house made a greatroom before greatroom was cool.  So my computer can live on the counter on the other side of the kitchen from the sink and stove.

    Parent
    Nice! (none / 0) (#16)
    by ruffian on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 11:01:40 AM EST
    I am constantly moving my ipad or laptop because if I leave them on the too narrow counter behind the sink, which divides the kitchen and the den, I am afraid I will splash any electronics I leave there. I wish it was a nice wide counter that could double as a desk.

    Parent
    file under First World Problems (5.00 / 6) (#18)
    by ruffian on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 11:05:06 AM EST


    Parent
    Hey, I didn't say it had to be granite! (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by ruffian on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 04:40:39 PM EST


    Parent
    I only wish Jesse (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by lilburro on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 10:40:17 AM EST
    came through a little more clearly.  Good podcast all the same though.  I get more work done listening instead of just reading.

    Does Kos Radio (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by brodie on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 02:40:45 PM EST
    have any female hosts?  Just asking. No complaints about shows & content I've heard so far, excepting some sound level issues.

    Parent
    A question I've also raised. No response. (none / 0) (#90)
    by oculus on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 02:55:23 PM EST


    Parent
    No amount of EQ will change Jesse's (none / 0) (#76)
    by DFLer on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 02:17:04 PM EST
    New York accent!

    Parent
    To me, it isn't the accent, it is the (none / 0) (#79)
    by oculus on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 02:25:16 PM EST
    very rapid speed of his speech.  Although today I seem to be listening to yesterday's Kagro X podcast.

    Parent
    is speed part of the accent? (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by DFLer on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 05:14:05 PM EST


    Parent
    Heat/humidity? Who knows. (none / 0) (#117)
    by oculus on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 05:33:05 PM EST


    Parent
    Now listening to today's podcast of (none / 0) (#82)
    by oculus on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 02:39:36 PM EST
    Ministry of Truth.  Much, much better re audibility.  

    Parent
    NSA dossiers on us all (5.00 / 2) (#21)
    by shoephone on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 11:13:24 AM EST
    The brilliant ones with their brilliant algorithms, inside their secret NSA buildings, recording every phone call, every email, every single keystroke. Ain't it grand? And what is this "constitution" you speak of?

    It's stories like this that make me want (5.00 / 2) (#45)
    by Anne on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 12:55:23 PM EST
    to go off-grid...

    Aside from the all-important question of how such information-gathering can be even remotely legal, there is the question of why every detail of every person's life must be collected, mined and scrutinized.

    The latitude that was extended to - or taken by - the security agencies in the wake of 9/11, the massive apparatus that has grown up around it, the billions of dollars that have been devoted to it, have completely run away with and overtaken any possibility that we will ever have the kind of privacy we used to.  The Congress can't seem to do anything, or doesn't want to, the Courts have assumed a deferential and permissive stance - and when they don't, rarely, they are ignored - the Department of Justice has become an oxymoron, aiding in the endeavor and shielding federal agancies from accountability, and so, with all of the institutional components marching in lockstep, we - the people - don't stand a chance.

    The important thing isn't whether one is or isn't doing anything wrong that would put one in the government's crosshairs, it's that the power and control over all of this has been given away on our behalf, and there not only doesn't seem to be anything we can do about it, but millions of people have just come to accept it.  It's "just the way it is" now.

    I don't get it, and I probably never will.

    Parent

    What would you do? (none / 0) (#47)
    by jbindc on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 12:56:55 PM EST


    Parent
    Well, that's what's so insidious about (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by Anne on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 01:10:38 PM EST
    what has happened; our power has gone the same place as our freedom, and short of massive protest, it's not coming back.

    I can keep doing what I've always done - let my representatives know what I believe they should be doing, but even though I and many others have been doing this all along, nothing has changed.

    Truth is, at this point, there probably isn't much I can do, short of going off-grid, and even I know that's not going to be happening.

    I guess I could stop caring about it, but that just feels too much like conceding that they've won.

    Parent

    Government data about you were stored (none / 0) (#94)
    by Farmboy on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 03:15:03 PM EST
    within days of your first breath. Beyond that, you chose to apply for your social security number, your driver license, your voter registration, your W-4s, your tax returns, etc. Once you opened the door to functioning in society and walked in, it was too late to be anonymous.

    That being said, I agree with you. The best we can hope for is that our representatives and bureaucrats don't betray us. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

    Parent

    But that data (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by sj on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 04:24:33 PM EST
    were not all stored in one giant, convenient searchable and mined data complex.

    Parent
    I'm confident that it has been since at least the (none / 0) (#105)
    by Farmboy on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 04:53:29 PM EST
    the IBM System 360 days. The government was always IBM's largest customer.

    I do know that by the 1970s state governments had all that personal information in one location (at least Iowa did - your state's mileage may vary).

    I also know that by the mid 1980s large meta-marketing firms like Meredith Corporation had enough demographic information about 150 million US families to target them by age, gender, race, religion, purchasing habits, reading habits, eating habits, clothing styles, education, etc., and they had all that personal information in one data center.

    Donald has mentioned his experiences with banking records. And these examples are all pre-internet.

    If the states, the marketers, and the banks have this data, then the feds have them  - if from no other sources than those.

    Parent

    And where in your list (none / 0) (#108)
    by sj on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 05:01:29 PM EST
    does it show that they've "always" been able to track movements, retain and mine personal conversations, compare your face against all others in a database.  And I have far less of a [conceptual] problem with giggling busybodies in a data center looking up individual accounts one at a time than I do with a supersecret government agency having a centralized database having everything from your DOB to what route you took to which grocery store to buy whatever they presume you are cooking for dinner.

    Don't even pretend it's the same thing.  It's not.  If you want to mollify yourself that's fine.  But today I'm not buying what you're selling.

    Parent

    Moreover (none / 0) (#109)
    by sj on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 05:04:55 PM EST
    If you'd take the time to think about it, you'd realize that if they'eve "always" had it, they wouldn't need to build a special place to store it.  And mine it.  

    Parent
    Do you really think an IBM 360 (none / 0) (#111)
    by sj on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 05:08:49 PM EST
    could store and then search this.  With their 8MB of memory?  Really?  

    And can you tell how annoyed I am at your patronizing self-delusion that I've responded to the same comment 3 times?

    I'm done now.

    Parent

    I'm not selling anything. You can believe that the (none / 0) (#167)
    by Farmboy on Wed Jul 25, 2012 at 09:41:58 AM EST
    feds haven't been using computer technology to store information about the US populace since the UNIVAC days if you like - my personal opinion, based on having worked in government data centers, is that they have. What I was doing was listing my own experiences in response to the idea of going off-the-grid. My conclusion, as per comment #94, is that in all likelihood it's been too late for that option for some time.

    Never did I claim my 70s and 80s examples were "the same thing" as the NSA database under discussion - my examples were given to provide context and illumination on the current situation. I even specifically pointed out that these examples were all pre-internet, with the logical implication that in this all-connected world in which we live the granularity of the data collected has to be even finer. It's my opinion that what's going on now by the feds is almost certainly more invasive.

    By the way, the answer to your question is yes. Since 1965 data centers employing IBM 360 technology were fully capable of storing, searching, and retrieving information from massive databases via CICS. While most 360s had less than one megabyte of core (the first one I programmed on in '75 had 48K), that had nothing to do with the amount of DASD storage they accessed, plus the offline storage like 9 track tape. We had many GBs of storage in our DASD farm and tens of thousands of tapes in our library when I worked for the state. Of course by then we'd added a 3033 running S/370, and relegated the 360 for legacy processing into the early '80s.

    Now, if you again want to call my life experiences a "patronizing self-delusion" then by all means, go ahead. It's your nickel.

    Parent

    And who knows what... (none / 0) (#169)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Jul 25, 2012 at 09:55:33 AM EST
    the G-Men having been doing for decades down at Oakridge with their Cray's.  

    Parent
    There is no comparison (none / 0) (#173)
    by sj on Wed Jul 25, 2012 at 10:11:52 AM EST
    Surely the seeds were planted then, but that's about that technology could support when compared to today: seeds.  

    The Crays that Mile-Hi mentioned are another matter.  I think the saving grace there is that the Red Scare was alive and kicking.  There was not so much focus on using technology to control our own population.  Didn't need it when propaganda was working perfectly well.

    All those things that you are talking about helped bring this about.  That is not the same thing as always having existed.

    Parent

    They would be so bored with me (none / 0) (#23)
    by jbindc on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 11:29:38 AM EST


    Parent
    That's what they all think... (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by sj on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 11:32:00 AM EST


    Parent
    Trust me (none / 0) (#26)
    by jbindc on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 11:34:23 AM EST
    While I think I'm fairly interesting and entertaining, I seriously doubt the NSA would care.  :)

    Parent
    I'm pretty sure that data mining (5.00 / 2) (#35)
    by sj on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 12:24:01 PM EST
    isn't taking place so that those are are interesting and entertaining can be identified.

    Parent
    But I bet your dog or cat does. (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 04:32:56 PM EST
    ;-D

    Parent
    I'm bored with them.... (5.00 / 3) (#30)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 11:38:07 AM EST
    Since it's all top secret anyway, why doesn't the entire NSA just go on permanent vacation and not tell anybody?  We'd never notice the difference.

    Parent
    But that's not the point. (5.00 / 2) (#74)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 02:10:29 PM EST
    NSA officials and employees don't have any right to be "bored" with you, particularly when you've done absolutely nothing wrong. This is data mining merely for the sake of data mining.

    After graduating from college and getting married in the mid-'80s, I worked for the Bank of America at its VISA Card Center in Pasadena -- a large, six-story, block-long windowless structure (obsolete now, but still standing) that was built in the mid-'70s to house the bank's large mainframe computers and process credit card billings.

    I distinctly remember co-workers and supervisors constantly chattering with each other about the various purchases of Hollywood celebrities such as Linda Evans, Carroll O'Conner and Lorenzo Lamas, because as customer service representatives, we all had unfettered access to such data as it appeared on their monthly billing statements. Our job was to process customer complaints about things like double-billing from merchants, which was apparently a fairly regular occurrence back then, given that there were over 90 people working in my department.

    The problem was that none of these celebrities had called up to log in a complaint about their bills. My co-workers and supervisors were pulling up and perusing those monthly statements for no other reasons than simple curiosity and vicarious voyeurism. I remember thinking that it was wrong, but being the new guy on the block I said nothing at the time.

    Well over a decade later and long after I had quit Bank of America and moved to Hawaii, there was a big scandal at when it became known that bank employees at both the Pasadena and San Francisco Card Centers were selling the personal information of prominent people to the tabloids. A large number of them were fired, and several were even indicted and prosecuted, and the state legislature passed laws tightening restrictions on such data mining by private firms.

    Spying on people for no reason is wrong. The fact that federal officials may have a badge and authorization doesn't make their actions any less the equivalent of the proverbial "Peeping Tom." It's unseemly and grotesque.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Do you really think that's true? (none / 0) (#27)
    by sj on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 11:37:24 AM EST
    You have been openly critical of a sitting President.  Personally, I think that's fine.  But can you think of a scenario where Big Brother might be interested in that?

    Parent
    Nah, (none / 0) (#32)
    by jbindc on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 11:55:38 AM EST
    I'm openly critical on a blog, and in some emails to my mother and sisters.  I have not advocated violence, nor organized (or even attended) protests, unless you count walking through the park once where Occupy DC was taking place and once standing across the street from the OWS park.

    I once did an internship in a US Attorney's Office, and I'm barred in Michigan and the District of Columbia - I've been through background checks and have had my fingerprints taken and run through databases. I work one block from the White House and walk past it almost daily.  Many days I eat lunch in Lafayette Park.  DC has cameras everywhere, so they know where I go anyway.  

    I bowl once a week at Ft. Myer (a joint Army and Marine base) in Arlington, so I have to show my ID at the gate and they take down my license plate, and I am on camera throughout the entire drive to the bowling alley.

    I use my debit card for almost everything - carry very little cash. I have a smartphone where I stream video, send and receive email and texts, and surf the internet.

    I guess technically Obama could have me assassinated or thrown in Guantanamo because I'm mean to him, but I am 100% confident that I am so far down on the list, that no, I am not in the least bit worried. As much as I don't like what he's done (and what he hasn't done) policy wise, or for the Democratic Party, I'm going assume that I am nowhere near his radar.  I'm confident I won't be on the radar of a Republican president either.

    And while I try to maintain my privacy as much as possible, if someone wants to find me, it wouldn't take an NSA Analyst to do it.  A savvy 10th grader could probably do it.

    I sincerely have too many other things in my life to worry about that I may have a modicum of control over.  Wondering if someone at NSA is watching my posts on a left-leaning blog is about 985th on my list.

    And, I have a cousin that works there.  :)

    Parent

    Ah yes, the old (3.50 / 2) (#33)
    by shoephone on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 12:13:28 PM EST
    "If you've got nothing to hide, what are you worried about?" response.

    The fact that the secret government is data mining every single thing you do should be of concern. But hey, you haven't got anything to hide. And you've got a cousin that works there.

    La la la la la la...

    Parent

    Hmmm... (none / 0) (#40)
    by jbindc on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 12:41:50 PM EST
    I didn't make that argument. I said I'm not concerned.  If you feel concerned, more power to you.

    But apparently you are already reading secret messages into blog posts that aren't there, so maybe you do have something to worry about.

    Parent

    It doesn't bother me at all that (5.00 / 3) (#41)
    by sj on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 12:47:43 PM EST
    they have that information on you either.  But it does bother me that they have it on me.  And it really bothers me that they have it on virtually everybody.

    Parent
    Maybe it should (none / 0) (#44)
    by jbindc on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 12:52:46 PM EST
    Who knows if we crossed paths at some point and our data is somehow entertwined?

    I guess the thing is, this isn't really new, but maybe some people are just realizing it.

    Parent

    The concept is not new (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by sj on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 01:07:58 PM EST
    The scope is definitely "new".  Depending on how one defines "new".

    Parent
    All Americans citizens (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by shoephone on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 12:55:24 PM EST
    have something to be concerned about: the shadow government that is data mining our every communication. It's a violation of our 4th amendment rights. It's really that simple.

    Parent
    And we're paying... (5.00 / 3) (#48)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 12:59:04 PM EST
    for the pleasure.  

    So if civil rights, privacy rights, sh*t human rights ain't your bag, maybe paying for it will bother ya.  It all bothers me, and with austerity in the air the footing the bill becomes even more of an issue.  Weaken social services and the safety net to continue to pay for data mining? F*ck that.

    Parent

    Yes! there are plenty of things (5.00 / 3) (#59)
    by ruffian on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 01:16:19 PM EST
    that will never materially affect me that I am concerned about simply because they are wrong and I don't want them happening to anybody.

    Parent
    You mean like... (5.00 / 2) (#62)
    by shoephone on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 01:29:22 PM EST
    Secret detention?
    Torture?
    Things like that?

    Hey, no worries! These things happen. Didn't you hear? There's nothing you can do about it anyway.
     

    Parent

    And, as I asked Anne (none / 0) (#49)
    by jbindc on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 01:00:27 PM EST
    What would you do? Something that in reality, would work?  What can you, sitting at your computer, do?

    Parent
    Voting for Gary Johnson... (5.00 / 2) (#50)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 01:05:39 PM EST
    might work.

    Everything else I can think of to try and stop it involves getting locked up and/or getting shot...tax revolt, occupying NSA buildings, stuff like that.

    Parent

    Gary Johnson (none / 0) (#55)
    by jbindc on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 01:11:33 PM EST
    Is a politician and the moment he would walk into the Oval Office he'd 1) have to go along with Congress (made up of Democrats and Republicans - the same people that brought you things like the Patriot Act) to some extent or another, and 2) would realize the magnitude of the job and its requirements, and would be hard-pressed (as anyone who occupies that job) to relinquish powers and abilities.

    Parent
    There is no magic wand... (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 01:17:41 PM EST
    to restore liberty and priorities, unfortunately.  But any journey starts with a step...Johnson could be that step, or not. There is no certainty, only opportunity.

    Get a liberty advocate in the WH, maybe getting some elected to Congress would follow.  Then maybe getting some more appointed to the benches.  Gotta start somewhere, no?

    Parent

    That's why I like ... (5.00 / 2) (#51)
    by magster on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 01:06:33 PM EST
    ... Anonymous and other hacktivist groups and would consider donating to groups like this to help keep the powers that be honest.

    Wait, I don't like them. Whoever is reading this comment, please ignore, I was only kidding.

    Parent

    Yep yep... (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 02:27:37 PM EST
    maybe one day we'll get a look at the dossiers that bear our names, courtesy of Wikleaks or a similar liberator of state secrets.

    Parent
    You're right. We should just lie back and take it (4.00 / 4) (#54)
    by shoephone on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 01:11:10 PM EST
    over and over and over. Seriously, jb, is there anything the government does that pi$$es you off enough to take action? I mean, really, if your attitude is that they're going to violate our civil liberties no matter what, then why even bother voting? What even pay attention to politics?

    Unlike you, perhaps, I am not at all okay with the tracking and data mining that corporations do, and that communications companies do. The bigger problem is the melding of business and government acting as one entity to destroy our civil liberties, which is happening as well. But, hey, what's a little fascism for breakfast?

    Parent

    So, you don't have an answer (2.00 / 2) (#56)
    by jbindc on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 01:12:05 PM EST
    That's what I thought.

    Parent
    What's sad is that you equate not (4.57 / 7) (#61)
    by Anne on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 01:19:45 PM EST
    having the answers with not needing to ask the questions.

    Or worse, that you're feeling the little glow of triumph that comes with thinking you've scored some kind of point here.  

    There are a lot of things I don't have the answer to, but I hope I never become someone who can't be bothered to ask the questions.  Not only does it look like you're there, but that you're happy in that place.

    To each his or her own, I guess.

    Parent

    Sometimes Anne (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by jbindc on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 01:33:29 PM EST
    You are spot on.  Sometimes though, you are extremely sanctimonious.  I don't know why, especially when I was stating something that is my opinion for my life, but whatever. You will make your judgments, even if they are wrong.

    I put forth facts and stated that, for me, since I can't change those facts, I will focus on things I can have control over. I'm not sure what you expect.  Handwringing?  Ok - I do that, especially when I talk to people and point out that things have gotten worse, especially under a Democratic president.

    Interesting.  I get castigated for being too negative around here, and too hard on the Democrats, and now I'm accused of "being happy in that place."

    What a bunch of horse manure.

    Parent

    You have to know that it was the (5.00 / 2) (#77)
    by Anne on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 02:17:36 PM EST
    "What would you do?" that you directed at me, at shoephone and kdog - and your "so, you don't have an answer" response, that triggered what you deemed a "sanctimonious" reply from me.

    Perhaps you didn't mean to take a lah-di-dah tone, or try to portray others as being hysterical - or silly - for being upset about the government's doings, but I think that's how it came across .  Perhaps you felt placed on the defensive when your "relax, don't worry, what's the big deal - I'm so boring" comments were met with varying levels of derision, and so you decided the only way to fight back was to put others on the defensive.  We've seen this before, and it seems to be a retort of last resort - designed to get people to go away.  We get it, the government kind of does the same thing to us: "so what if we're supposed to need warrants - what are you gonna do about it, huh?"

    On top of that, it's not like it's any secret how you feel about Bradley Manning and Julian Assange, about Wikileaks and Anonymous - individuals and entities that have pushed back against the rank intrusion into our personal lives via data-mining, wiretapping and other forms of surveillance: you think they are wrong to do what they do.  You have defended the government's right and its reasons for collecting information, haven't you?

    You have a comfort level with a level of authoritarianism that some of us do not share, and that's why you get the kind of pushback you do, and why your "What would you do?" was met the way it was.


    Parent

    This is one of your (4.00 / 3) (#58)
    by sj on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 01:15:52 PM EST
    more ridiculous statements. Do you have an answer to what we do to get a "good" president?  No, of course not.  But you know what you won't do.  And it doesn't stop you from venting about it.

    Parent
    Not exactly on topic, (none / 0) (#63)
    by NYShooter on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 01:30:38 PM EST
    But a point of interest, none the less.

    My worst nightmare: I go to a party and after a few vodka & anythings, I flirt around a little bit with some dickhead's girlfriend. Well, as luck would have it, Mr. Dick Head is also a part-time Deputy Sheriff. A few days later Mr. Head and I converge at an intersection, and after measuring my "stop" with a micrometer, Barney Head accuses me of not coming to a complete stop. So, after a few words back and forth the Little Corporal glances down inside my car and voila! A small glassine bag with what appears to be a powdery white substance is spotted by Dudley Do-Right.

    To make a long story (or nightmare) short, I don't do coke, and the substance was obviously planted by the jilted constable. What do you do? I know it happens thousands of times a day, all over the country, but when it happens to you (in my dream) I'm serious, what do you do?

    I'm screwed, right? His word against mine, and all that, but the idea that it could seriously happen that easily is just, big time frightening.
    Anyway, I'm awake now, and gotta go pick up my daughter in law. But, if anyone here has had an experience similar to my nightmare I'd be interested to know how you handled it.


    Parent

    Shooterman... (none / 0) (#65)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 01:38:10 PM EST
    ya need not even hit on Dudley's girl, a simple comment that Dudley is blocking the bike lane can lead to retaliation using the law and authority as a weapon.

    What do ya do?  Bend over and hope they're quick about it.

    Parent

    Oops... (none / 0) (#66)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 01:38:39 PM EST
    forgot linkage.

    Parent
    Good one, dog (none / 0) (#159)
    by NYShooter on Wed Jul 25, 2012 at 01:32:56 AM EST
    and you brought to light an idea I've had for a long time. The incident you linked to is an example of cops misusing the authority we grant them. It's a particularly onerous pet peeve I've nurtured over the years. In fact, I've been nailed more than once in that type of police dic=swinging.

    Anyway, my idea is for the auto companies to offer an accessory with their new model cars that would record, both sound and video, transactions that the driver would want to make a record of. Technologically, I think it would be pretty simple. Just imbed a fisheye type lense somewhere into the car body, and a mic for the sound. So, the next time an overweight, strutting cop feels like making a jerk of himself, just flip a switch (or push a button) and just like that, you've got a record of the event.

    Pretty cool, no?


    Parent

    My mother once dated ... (none / 0) (#106)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 04:54:28 PM EST
    ... a police lieutenant a couple of times back when I was in 10th grade, who later began stalking her because he really liked her. He started appearing almost out of nowhere whenever she was leaving the house or her work. My older sister even caught him hiding on the side of our hedge one time, trying to look into our windows. No doubt, he probably used his position with the Pasadena PD in order to gleen personal information about my mom.

    The lieutenant ultimately proved to be quite harmless in his almost adolescent infatuation, but still, my mom found his behavior to be very unnerving, eerie and scary. And my older brother (who was in college at UCLA) had the very uncomfortable task of having to tell him that he was giving her the creeps, and to cut it out and leave her alone or he'd complain to the guy's superiors. That put an end to it.

    Parent

    WTF....you're sweet and all (5.00 / 4) (#107)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 04:57:10 PM EST
    But that isn't really adolescent behavior when a grown man does it.  And when a police officer does it...wow, he has access to information about who he is stalking that nobody else has.  That's a fricken scary story Donald!!!!

    Parent
    Agreed. The behavior wasn't adolescent. (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 05:31:09 PM EST
    But you have to admit, the guy's level of emotional maturity sure was. And my mom and brother would undoubtedly agree with you, too. As I said, the guy ultimately proved to be harmless, but honestly, that's also my own observation and offered well after the fact. Nobody knew that at the time.

    As for me, I was 15 years old at the time, and had my own infatuation with a girl who was one year ahead of me, who in turn allowed me to carry her books home from school and basically treated me like a loyal puppy dog -- but at least I wasn't peering over her hedge.

    ;-)

    Parent

    I don't want to overly scare you or anything (5.00 / 1) (#118)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 05:34:48 PM EST
    But that sort of stalking voyeurism along with having a stubborn emotional immaturity is a feature that goes along with a few killers out there, like the BTK killer.

    Parent
    No doubt. (5.00 / 2) (#120)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 05:44:31 PM EST
    But that was 37 years ago, and my mom's still very much alive (she's going to be 80 next year). Can't say the same for the cop -- I remember reading his obit about 15 years ago. Now you have me wondering whether other women also breathed a sigh of relief when he passed on.

    Parent
    And remember how the BTK killer (none / 0) (#119)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 05:37:37 PM EST
    was a code enforcement officer too?  He liked having some sort of authority over others, he got off on it.  Okay, I'm done discussing the profiles of serial killers :)

    Parent
    That's not what she's saying at all. (none / 0) (#102)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 04:38:43 PM EST
    jb is simply noting that an awful lot of personal information about us is already out there, and that we already freely divulge much of it, often subconsciously without giving it even a second thought.

    My problem with data mining rests in the consolidation of that personal information within the auspices of one agency / company / corporation.

    Parent

    That's an awful lot of information (none / 0) (#36)
    by sj on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 12:26:37 PM EST
    about you that is innocuous and harmless and that they have no business mining.

    Parent
    No, they don't (2.00 / 1) (#43)
    by jbindc on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 12:50:05 PM EST
    But it's out there and unless I hole up in my apartment and don't use the phone or watch cable or go on the internet, somebody has already mined data on me.

    Oh wait, my landlords ran credit checks on me and I pay rent with a check drawn on my bank, so even then I'm not immune.

    Do you use CVS cards or grocery store cards?  It's how they target what coupons to send you - they know your buying preferences.  Speaking of Target - they have figured out a way to know that you're pregnant, even if you haven't told another living soul.

    Do I think this is wrong?  Absolutely.  Is anything going to change it?  No.  It's out there and if we elected Mother Theresa tomorrow, I guarantee you, this would still go on.

    I guess I am trying to worry about only those things within my sphere of influence.

    Parent

    You're actually making my point for me (none / 0) (#57)
    by sj on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 01:12:58 PM EST
    And I'm not saying you and I need to start marching about this.  But accepting it without complaint or without any sort of pushback isn't right either.

    Who knows? There may be a moment when your sphere of influence could have an impact.  

    Parent

    I think they would (none / 0) (#29)
    by firstfall on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 11:37:32 AM EST
    ...be bored with pretty much everyone. Even if they collected and recorded that much information it would be far too much for any human to take any real interest in. I'm not even sure how much of a privacy issue it would be since no human is going to be looking through all that crap. Just emotionless machines. Still, w/o knowing what would get flagged and brought to human attention...shrug. Personally I just don't think anyone is really going to care about us regular folk.

    Parent
    Whether they're bored or not (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by shoephone on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 11:46:43 AM EST
    They're still spying on us. For years, my good friend's phone was tapped (and yes, we knew it was the feds doing it) and we used to laugh up a storm after having two hour-long conversations about the Seattle Home & Garden Show, hearing the clicks and pops the whole time. Finally, I said to my friend, "Do you think they're bored with garden talk yet?" She replied, "No, they're dumb enough to think we're talking in code."

    Blue Salvias and Orange Helenium could be secret ID's of couriers, right?

    Parent

    Lordy (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by sj on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 12:36:08 PM EST
    Privacy isn't limited to what another person knows.  And I'm pretty sure that no one is bored by listening in to run of the mill conversations.  No need to: "emotionless machines" can just execute software to scan for trigger words or phrases.

    But then again, you're probably right.  Just because the government is building the means to track everyone with a phone, a vehicle, a computer, a bank account, a license of any sort, etc, it doesn't mean they would ever use that information for anything.

    Parent

    There goes running for president... (none / 0) (#37)
    by magster on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 12:28:26 PM EST
    ... every time HuffPo got me to click "See the latest Nip-Slips", I thought no one would ever find out. :(

    Thanks a lot Nancy Grace!!

    Parent

    Curse you magster... (5.00 / 3) (#73)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 02:00:51 PM EST
    now a google search for "Nancy Grace Wardrobe Malfunction" is in my NSA file.  Thanks...thanks a lot;)

    Then again, I'm at work...does it go in my file or the company's server file?

    Parent

    Sally Ride (5.00 / 2) (#67)
    by jbindc on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 01:41:23 PM EST
    comes out in her obituary

    Rec'ced diary at Kos about how her partner is ... (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by magster on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 01:53:34 PM EST
    denied benefits because of DOMA.

    Parent
    She was very similar (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by brodie on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 02:14:48 PM EST
    to fellow astronaut Neil Armstrong in that both sought largely to stay out of the public eye and not cash in on their hero status.  They rarely appeared on the national talk tv circuit in recent decades.  Obviously they might have had different reasons for their desire for privacy.

    Parent
    One important distinction. Ride wasn't (none / 0) (#84)
    by oculus on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 02:40:52 PM EST
    a former test pilot, male.  She responded to an ad.  

    Parent
    True but among astronauts (none / 0) (#87)
    by brodie on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 02:53:09 PM EST
    she and Neil both earned very important Firsts in their field which resonated with the public and which are significant entries in the history books.  They could have done the Lindbergh thing and achieved ongoing public acclaim and celebrity by not avoiding but seeking the limelight, but interestingly both chose privacy.

    Parent
    Beetter late than never. (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 02:54:56 PM EST
    The late Harvey Milk's address to participants and attendees at the June 1978 San Francisco Gay Freedom Day Parade still resonates with extraordinary power today, 34 years after those words were first spoken:

    "My name is Harney Milk -- and I want to recruit you. I want to recruit you for the fight to preserve your democracy from the John Briggses and Anita Bryants who are trying to constitutionalize bigotry. [...]

    "I'm tired of the lies of the Anita Bryants and the John Briggses. I'm tired of their myths. I'm tired of their distortions. I'm speaking out about it. Gay brothers and sisters, what are you going to do about it?

    "You must come out. Come out to your parents. I know that it is hard and will hurt them, but think about how they will hurt you in the voting booth! Come out to your relatives. I know that it is hard and will hurt them, but think about how they will upset you in the voting booth!

    "Come out to your friends, if they are indeed your friends. Come out to your neighbors, to your fellow workers,, to the people who work where you eat and shop. Come out only to the people you know, and who know you -- not to anyone else.

    "But once and for all, break down the myths, destroy the lies and distortions. For your sake. For their sake. For the sake of the youngsters who are becoming scared by the votes from Dade to Eugene.

    "If Briggs wins, he will not stop. They never do. Like all made people, they are forced to go on, to prove they were right! There will be no safe 'closet' for any gay person. So break out of yours today -- tear the damn thing down once and for all!"

    Aloha to Sally Ride. Even posthumously, she stands both as a tremendous role model for both young girls pursuing their dreams, and now a potent symbol for the GLBT community in their struggle for civil equality and liberty in this country.

    Parent

    Donald, I agree with Harvey. We know that (5.00 / 7) (#95)
    by caseyOR on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 03:20:26 PM EST
    people who have a relative or friend or co-worker whom they know is gay or lesbian are less likely to be homophobic. The simple fact of knowing someone gay or lesbian makes LGBT people less "other."

    I've seen that with my own family. Once I came out to the extended family, and everyone saw that I was still the same niece or cousin that I had always been, attitudes changed. Okay, things did not go so smoothly with my mother. There were those 5 years during which she did not speak to me. Still, after we got through that, she was fine with it. And not just with me. Her attitude about gays in general did a 180.

    And Sally Ride did that. She was out to family and friends. I don't think it is fair to expect every famous person who is gay or lesbian to make the big public announcement on Access Hollywood or in People magazine. What is important is that they live their lives openly and honestly.

    Parent

    Thank you for sharing and saying that. (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 04:21:10 PM EST
    You're absolutely right, of course. I had my own issues with gays, stemming from a failed marriage to a lesbian. It took a lot of soul searching and growing up on my part, further propelled when a very close friend of mine came out to me shortly after my divorce, to get to where I am right now.

    Eventually, I was forced to admit to myself that I was the one who was wrong, not members of the GLBT community. I became keenly aware that my issues were exactly that - my issues, and not anyone else's.

    And I gotta tell you, once I came to that conscious realization, it was actually quite liberating to be able to finally accept people for who they truly are without hesitation. I no longer felt compelled by self-imposed personal barriers to resent someone for not being exactly how I would've otherwise perceived him or her to be.

    I've shared my personal experience with other straight people who are struggling with GLBT social issues concerning marriage equality and civil rights, in the hope that they'll come to understand that it's really not about gays and lesbians, but rather about ourselves and our own often ridiculous misconceptions and rationalizations about the nature of human sexuality.

    And quite frankly, as straight people, we really need to get over ourselves when it comes to discussions about sexual orientation and moral superiority. One only has to look at the abysmal rates of divorce, domestic violence and child neglect / abuse in this country to see that.

    Harvey Milk and Sally Ride are true American heroes who fully deserve to be acclaimed and celebrated -- not just by the GLBT community, but by every single one of us who would admire and respect personal acts of true courage, and who truly cherish our freedoms in this country. 30 years ago, I probably couldn't have said that about someone I knew to be gay. I'm glad I grew up.

    Me ke aloha pumehana.

    Parent

    Hi Casey OR! (5.00 / 1) (#137)
    by ZtoA on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 10:43:01 PM EST
    Hope you are well!

    I recently was back to the homeland and passed several signs to your old stomping grounds. It was really hot. Was there for a family reunion -mom's side with first cousins, removed first cousins, second cousins  and so on and so on.....70 people, lots of them tots. gads, (and wonderful!)

    I have a very religious family, some rather fundamentalist. I used to be the black sheep of the family but now my 'out' 20 year old beloved west-coaster niece is (who has never met these people but had a sense of them and she refused to go). Hey, my discretions only took my beloved fundie cousins only 40+ years to get over! It was strange - like being a prodigal....only they left me. Nevertheless, there was a sense that all my former 'sins' (artist, divorced, moved away etc etc etc) simply never existed and I was accepted and loved - part of the family.

    I know if any of them ever met my niece they would let it all go. I can understand why she is not into meeting them but.....

    Parent

    Hey, ZtoA, I'm good.You? (5.00 / 1) (#153)
    by caseyOR on Wed Jul 25, 2012 at 12:30:31 AM EST
    How was the old home state? Other than being hot as Hades, of course. My Mom tells me everyone is quite miserable from the heat; the corn crop is almost a total loss; soybeans not doing so well either. Yeah, my grandparents were farmers, and I awoke every morning to the farm report. So, we still talk about the crops. :-)

    My family is not, for the most part, terribly religious, at least not in the fundamentalist sense. We're Catholics, but we're cafeteria Catholics. You know, we are part of the vast majority of American Catholics who started ignoring the Bishops on certain issues beginning when they demonized birth control.

    I think I would have had a much tougher slog family-wise if my family was fanatically religious. Also, these were people with whom I had grown-up, to whom I was very close. There are more distant branches that I don't really know, and so I have never bothered to come out to them. I'm not hiding anything; I've just never felt like I needed to send out a mass mailing to all the second and third cousins, and the once removed ones, etc.

    If your niece has never met these people, so is related to them but has relationship with them, I can understand why she is reluctant to expose herself to any potential cr@p from them.  At some point, though, connecting with extended family, and the continuing shift in society's attitude, may well overcome her reluctance.

    Parent

    Home state.... (5.00 / 2) (#183)
    by ZtoA on Wed Jul 25, 2012 at 12:05:21 PM EST
    I saw signs to your former stomping grounds. :)   The heat is oppressive and the thunderstorms violent with high winds. We traveled out to the place where the 'old red brick farmhouse' once stood. I remember so much more variety back then. Now there are basically just two crops, soy beans and corn. And yes, drought is blighting much of Illinois, but not all.

    But the midwest sky is so beautiful.

    I don't blame my niece not going, but hope she will someday. It is the generation older than me who are the most prejudiced. The younger ones don't really care. My daughter came from LA and had never been to the towns like Quincy or Ursa. She kept saying "what do they do here? Is there work.... or just Meth?" and the country cousins (second cousins, firsts once or twice removed, seconds once or twice removed etc - gads) tried to figure her out too. It was kind of sweet. Its mostly my older cousins who are way too religious and apparently now, like in the depression the religious ones go more fundie. Good thing we avoided talking politics!

    And there there are the tiny marshmallows. In everything. Potato salad with them, mac n cheese with them, green jello with them and also floating shreds of carrot and salad.

    Parent

    OMG, the tiny marshmallows. I'd (5.00 / 2) (#189)
    by caseyOR on Wed Jul 25, 2012 at 03:05:12 PM EST
    forgotten about them. And the ubiquitous jello with add-ins. How do they keep the added fruit and carrots from sinking to the bottom? My grandma used to make a rather tasty, creamy and smooth concoction of cherry jello mixed with cottage cheese. It turned out pink, and my sibs and I loved it when we were kids.

    Yes, the midwest sky. So very blue and clear with big puffy clouds. It really is stunning.

    While you were in Quincy did you venture across the mighty Mississippi to Hannibal, MO? I hear the Mark Twain Bridge is much bigger than the old bridge. Four lanes, right?


    Parent

    Actually I did see that bridge (none / 0) (#191)
    by ZtoA on Wed Jul 25, 2012 at 06:30:54 PM EST
    but didn't go over. It had been many decades since I was in Quincy. Looks a bit tattered, but it is a classic town. I also used to eat that same pink stuff and thought it was really good!

    Parent
    Who is this (none / 0) (#97)
    by me only on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 04:19:26 PM EST
    Harvey or Harney Milk?

    Parent
    Typo. (none / 0) (#99)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 04:23:19 PM EST
    Sorry.

    Parent
    I wasn't trying to point out (none / 0) (#168)
    by me only on Wed Jul 25, 2012 at 09:53:49 AM EST
    a typo.  I was asking a question.

    Parent
    Ride wasn't closeted. Everyone in her life (5.00 / 3) (#93)
    by caseyOR on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 03:12:04 PM EST
    knew she was a lesbian, knew about her 27 year relationship with Dr. Tam O'Shaunessy. She just never felt any need to make a public announcement.

    And there is no good reason why she should have made such an announcement. Her private life was her private life.

    Parent

    Did anyone catch the scene (5.00 / 2) (#121)
    by NYShooter on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 06:15:46 PM EST
    I think it was in San Diego....the Gay Pride Parade?

    There's nothing unique about that. They've been going on quite a lot these past few years. But, what made this one special was that, for the first time, gay & lesbian Soldiers, Seamen, Airmen, and, get this, MARINES took part. Not only did they partake in the parade (there was a lot of them, and, Boy, could they boogie!) but, again, get this, they were in uniform.

    This just gets better and better......another, get this! They didn't break any rules. Usually military personnel aren't allowed to participate in these sorts of thing wearing their uniforms, but, in this case, they were sanctioned and authorized to wear their uniforms by their commanding officers.

    I'm not gay, but I think tears started streaming down my face reading this. The beautiful words those officers used in explaining their permissions was just breath taking. So understanding, so accepting, so embracing.

    I don't know, maybe there's hope for us yet.

    I'm sure if you Google it, you can read all about it.


    Parent

    Here: (5.00 / 1) (#122)
    by oculus on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 07:27:39 PM EST
    Guardian

    Parent
    Re Daily Kos Radio: why is the (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by oculus on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 02:58:56 PM EST
    transmission of Armando's voice so much clearer than that of Jesse?  

    Interesting excerpt re George Wallace: (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by oculus on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 03:57:12 PM EST
    Positioning includes deciding if and when an old stand must be revised to rectify past errors, or to explain discrepancies between what was practiced then and what is being preached now.

         Politicians do that, after all, on far larger issues.  When the serial presidential campaigner George Wallace first ran for governor of Alabama in 1958 as a moderate, he proudly accepted an endorsement from the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People and rejected and endorsement by the Ku Klux Klan.  After he was soundly defeated, he vowed never to be "out-niggered again."  Running again as a segregationist, he became one of the single most prominent opponents of integration in the South.  Chided by friends for turning his back on his early commitment to helping poor blacks get equal treatment, he explained:  "you know, I tried to talk about good roads and good schools and all these things that have been part of my career, and nobody listened.  And then I began talking about niggers, and they stomped the floor."  [Samuel L. Popkin, "The Candidate:  What It Takes to Win -and hold-the White House," 2012, p. 68, fn. omitted.]
    Do I give a rip (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 05:16:44 PM EST
    If someone who was brilliant yet crazy maybe used scraps of scraped up stipend to buy weapons with instead of ramen noodles?  NO!  How about some better laws?  Give the kids their stipends.  It's one phucking crazy kid and that's all and that's that.

    Is CNN right? (none / 0) (#1)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 09:44:04 AM EST
    Am I just weird?  They are talking about how when the media talks about the shooter, the shooter is what gets to be remembered.  I can't tell you the name of the guy who shot Gabby Giffords.  They just showed his picture and said that it was burned into my subconscious.  I knew that I had seen the photo, but I couldn't immediately place where, I needed help.  I know who Gabby Giffords is though, and I would identify her husband easily too now.

    I'm right there with you (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by CST on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 10:16:02 AM EST
    and I hope it's not due to age yet :)

    I can't remember the names of the Oklahoma city bombers either, or the 9/11 hijackers.  I remember the kids though, and the people jumping out of windows...  That is the stuff that haunts.  I remember the lines of people in NY to give blood.  And the story my mom told of the crying and cheering airport workers when she showed up alive a few days later at logan airport to pick up her car.

    I prefer to remember those things than the names and faces of killers.

    Parent

    Local Denver Channel 9 (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by magster on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 12:34:22 PM EST
    did a story on what they were going to do, deciding they couldn't not use his name in stories about him or the court proceedings, but agreed to not use his name about any stories about the victims or injured, and acknowledging that this concern about not making the shooter famous has led to a lot of thought and meetings amongst the staff at that channel.

    Parent
    Jared Laughtner (none / 0) (#2)
    by jbindc on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 09:55:56 AM EST


    Parent
    You are not wierd...jsut getting to that age (none / 0) (#3)
    by ruffian on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 10:04:48 AM EST
    where name forgetfullness kicks in. Just wait, it gets worse. I could not remember Holmes' name yesterday.

    Parent
    I don't think it is that (none / 0) (#5)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 10:13:37 AM EST
    I wasn't familiar with Gabby Giffords before the shooting.  Her name was not in my long term memory.  It is now.  And her husband is Mark Kelly and he has a twin who is an astronaut too.  I have all sorts of Gabby Gifford info, I got nuthin on the guy who shot her.

    Parent
    Well I did remember one thing (none / 0) (#13)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 10:45:18 AM EST
    He had a large economy sized clip for his gun.

    Parent
    I couldn't remember his name either. (none / 0) (#4)
    by lilburro on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 10:06:44 AM EST
    I was reflecting, vaguely, that shooters in this situation are always male (and often white).  I can't recall a single female shooter of this nature.  Whatever that means, but surely it means something.

    Parent
    I really think someday they are going (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by ruffian on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 10:27:48 AM EST
    to discover some chemical composition in certain people that makes them prone to mental illness and/or violence, possibly gender linked.

    Could Holmes' interest in neuroscience be related, at least on some level, to his awareness of his own differences, however they manifested themselves in his mind? Seems possible to me.

    Parent

    "gender linked"?! How dare you. (none / 0) (#34)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 12:16:31 PM EST
    Kidding, of course.

    Parent
    Since mass murderers (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 02:49:54 PM EST

    Since mass murderers are nearly all men, that seems quite likely.

    Parent
    That's what I've been wondering about (none / 0) (#149)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Jul 25, 2012 at 12:17:26 AM EST
    the interest in neuroscience.

    Parent
    Female assailants are rare. (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by Tamta on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 11:13:12 AM EST
    SylviaSeegrist

    "It was estimated that this woman had fired twenty rounds, and the toll that day was two dead and eight wounded. When she was stopped, she had 10 bullets left in one of her clips.

    While it was not the worst mass murder on American soil, it was surprising for one factor: never had there been a female behind the gun."


    Parent

    Call in you guys (none / 0) (#14)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 10:54:14 AM EST
    He takes my calls!  I gotta mic now.  Call in before I do

    how in the hell does this mic thing work? (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 10:55:34 AM EST


    Parent
    lol (none / 0) (#17)
    by ruffian on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 11:03:18 AM EST
    hope you got it working! I will listen to the podcast later. The live site is blocked from work.

    Parent
    I got it installed I think (none / 0) (#19)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 11:05:34 AM EST
    I think being the key here.  I'm gonna bother him tomorrow.

    Parent
    If you want to check it on SKype (none / 0) (#22)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 11:28:03 AM EST
    there is a sound testing system.


    Parent
    Thank you! (none / 0) (#24)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 11:31:38 AM EST
    Did not know that and it wasn't in the directions even though it advertises that it was built for better Skype use.

    Parent
    Echo (none / 0) (#28)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 11:37:30 AM EST


    Parent
    Very rare occasion... (none / 0) (#42)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 12:48:48 PM EST
    where I agree 100% with Mikey Bloomberg, he was on Piers Morgan saying the police should go on strike.  Hell yeah Mikey, now you're talking!  Is there a petition I can sign or something?

    Never mind, he's walking it back already...a police strike is illegal in NY.  Foiled by the law again...we just can't win:(

    Other than that misstep (none / 0) (#81)
    by brodie on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 02:32:37 PM EST
    Bloomie is to be applauded for calling out the pols for their timidity on gun control.

    Also righteous on that issue on Piers last night was Perfesser Alan Dershowitz, who went Lincolnesque as he declared he would ban 90 even 100% of the personal guns in this country if it could be done constitutionally.  Unfortunately he had to share his too brief segment with the NRA talking points guy who foisted the screed More Guns Less Crime upon an unsuspecting nation.  But Alan and Piers handled him well -- with a well deserved double smackdown.

    Parent

    I don't know.... (none / 0) (#85)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 02:47:31 PM EST
    I was only applauding a possible police strike...I don't know the answer on gun violence.  I don't like guns, I don't like all these people with guns outside their house, but I especially don't like tyranny.

    I do know Bloomy's way...excessive jail terms for gun crimes with no victim, unconstitutional stop & frisk policies in the name of "gun control"...that sh*t I want no part of.  I'm more with Benny Franklin..."Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

    Parent

    Bloomberg (none / 0) (#88)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 02:53:54 PM EST

    Talk is cheap.  Bloomberg is keeping his armed guards.  When he and his police disarm, I will be right behind them.

    Parent
    Don't bullsh*t me... (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 03:03:19 PM EST
    Bloomberg disarms the police, you'd be rushing out to buy more ammo Abdul...with your piece on your hip, as always.

    But I'm all for disarming the police...like Reason pointed out in response to Bloomberg's comments, we are much more likely to be shot by a cop, then a cop is to be shot by one of us.

    Parent

    Bloomberg (none / 0) (#163)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Wed Jul 25, 2012 at 07:08:15 AM EST
    .

    The point about that hypocrite Bloomberg is that he is not going to give up his armed guards.  The dirt bag wants my beautiful bride to give hers.  

    Pound sand Mike.

    .

    Parent

    Dear TalkLeft commenters: (none / 0) (#68)
    by oculus on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 01:44:53 PM EST
    what is happening to the comment threads.  Way to much personal back-and-forth.  Meta thought.  

    So why not? (5.00 / 1) (#155)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Jul 25, 2012 at 12:34:55 AM EST
    This is a community, not a debating society among strangers.

    Parent
    Maybe it's just me? I lose interest (none / 0) (#156)
    by oculus on Wed Jul 25, 2012 at 12:51:52 AM EST
    wheninterest when two people bicker about style not content.  

    Parent
    Blogs are about reading, and one's (5.00 / 1) (#162)
    by Anne on Wed Jul 25, 2012 at 06:42:39 AM EST
    enjoyment of the written word is often very much about style, not just content.  As an avid reader, I've lost interest in a lot of books because the authors' writing styles have made it difficult to appreciate the content.  Plus, we're all reading tone into each other's comments, and it seems we don't always read them the way the writer intended them.

    You're really into music, and I'm guessing there have been performances that set your teeth on edge because the execution of the piece wasn't to your liking.

    Sometimes, we're just cranky and more easily irritated, especially when the same old things get dragged out an re-hashed.

    Speaking of "cranky and irritated," maybe there will be more Zimmerman news and you can distract yourself with that?  I know how much you enjoy what that brings to the blog!

    Parent

    That's unusual?...n/t (none / 0) (#69)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 01:53:25 PM EST


    Parent
    Whatever dude. You are so like that! (none / 0) (#71)
    by magster on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 01:54:30 PM EST
    :) kidding.

    Parent
    Pretty innocuous replies so far! (none / 0) (#72)
    by oculus on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 01:59:12 PM EST


    Parent
    U.N. Global Commission... (none / 0) (#78)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 02:19:34 PM EST
    on HIV & the Law recommends decriminalizing same-sex sexual activity, legalizing consensual sex work, and decriminalizing IV drug use worldwide to protect public health and limit the spread of HIV.  

    With its report based on 18 months of extensive research and analysis, as well as first-hand accounts from more than 1,000 people in 140 countries, the Global Commission found that punitive laws and discriminatory practices in many countries undermine progress against HIV.

    Linkage

    RIP Sherman Hemsley (none / 0) (#104)
    by sj on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 04:43:58 PM EST
    I didn't know he was 10 years younger than Isobel Sanford.

    Ah, the magic of Hollywood, where ... (none / 0) (#113)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 05:14:20 PM EST
    ... chronological age means nothing. I didn't know that about Sherman Hemsley either, but it's hardly surprising.

    Hollywood. Where else could a 55-year-old Clark Gable try to pass himself off in a film as being only 42 to a young Sophia Loren in It Happened in Naples -- or a bunch of 30-something actors could get away with playing high school students in the 1978 musical Grease?

    Angela Lansbury was only one year older than Lawrence Harvey when she played his mother in John Frankenheimer's 1962 film The Manuchurian Candidate.

    And when Lucille Ball starred with Henry Fonda in the 1968 comedy Yours, Mine and Ours, the storyline had her getting pregnant -- and she was 57 years old at the time.

    I loved the character of George Jefferson, that insufferable bantam rooster who lived next door to the equally insufferable Archie Bunker on All in the Family. Never really cared much for him and the wife after they spun off and were "movin' on up to the East Side," though.

    Parent

    I agree that I wasn't as amused (none / 0) (#115)
    by sj on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 05:29:08 PM EST
    in the spinoff as I was when he was in All in the Family.  But I did like other characters.  And I loved that it starred an interracial couple.

    And my comment should have said 20 (twenty)       years, not 10.  

    Parent

    Love that theme song though (none / 0) (#124)
    by Dadler on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 08:07:19 PM EST
    Fish don't fry in the kitchen;
    Beans don't burn on the grill.
    Took a whole lotta tryin',
    Just to get up that hill.
    Now we're up in the big leagues,
    Gettin' our turn at bat.
    As long as we live, it's you and me baby,
    There ain't nothin' wrong with that.


    Parent
    Lansbury and Harvey.. (none / 0) (#185)
    by jondee on Wed Jul 25, 2012 at 12:58:59 PM EST
    Creepiest mother-son relationship in a film since Anthony Perkins/Norman Bates and his "mother" (coming, mother!)

    Angelica Huston and John Cusack in the Grifters were a little disturbingly disfunctional as well..

    Parent

    Great, we funded an Afghan hospital (none / 0) (#110)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 05:06:17 PM EST
    And the corruption in Afghanistan is so bad, patients were being starved and surgery was preformed there without medication.  Generals knew about it and didn't do anything, made nobody aware either.  And a General, in order to get out of an investigation name dropped the President's name.  Said that the President calls him "Bill" too.  General Caldwell

    Say Buh-bye to your career Caldwell I'm guessing.  I said that about McChrystal though and he lived on damned near forever and had the initial Afghanistan mission under Obama handed to him on a silver platter.

    Why would he not address this though?  Was he just lazy?  Maybe he thought the Afghan patients deserved it?

    But, per NPR, we are not (none / 0) (#123)
    by oculus on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 07:29:49 PM EST
    providing all our military a device which helps detect roadside bombs. Sometimes I hate us.  

    Parent
    This looks like Palantir marketing may be (none / 0) (#125)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 08:27:48 PM EST
    behind this, in which case NPR is aiding and abetting the corrupt war contractors here.  There is attention focused on it now, we should figure it out soon enough.  But some people in the tech industry are saying that Palantir is behind this media push because they want to push DCGS out and their product is not really superior and being ignored.

    Parent
    Maybe so. I searched but cannot (none / 0) (#129)
    by oculus on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 10:07:47 PM EST
    find on NPR the story I heard just this afternoon.  

    Parent
    Where is the Romney campaign going (none / 0) (#126)
    by Politalkix on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 09:17:55 PM EST
    with the "Obama belongs to a different America" argument? link
    "Anglo-Saxon"..wow (none / 0) (#186)
    by jondee on Wed Jul 25, 2012 at 01:05:26 PM EST
    Abysmally idiotic dogwhistle of the week..

    Not that they all aren't..

    Parent

    Hmmm . . . (none / 0) (#127)
    by nycstray on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 09:42:54 PM EST
    Attorney Don Karpel told TMZ that the suit will allege that the Century 16 theater, which is owned by Cinemark, was negligent for not having the exit door guarded or equipped with an alarm that would sound when it opened. (Holmes reportedly left the theater via the exit door, propped it open, and reentered with his weapons.) The suit also targets Warner Brothers, blaming their movie's violence for inspiring Holmes. Also named in the suit: suspect James Holmes' doctors, if they exist, for hypothetically not monitoring his hypothetical mental condition adequately.
    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/report-shooting-survivor-plans-sue-theater-203230634.html

    So you can sue WB for a movie he hadn't seen yet and Drs that may or may not exist? And suing theaters because they aren't guarding or alarming exits?

    You may sue anybody for anything. (none / 0) (#130)
    by oculus on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 10:08:46 PM EST


    Parent
    True (none / 0) (#133)
    by Zorba on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 10:21:57 PM EST
    But that doesn't mean that the lawsuit won't be thrown out of court.  Or that you'll win if it is allowed to go forward.

    Parent
    But that wasn't the question! (none / 0) (#134)
    by oculus on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 10:30:59 PM EST


    Parent
    Details, details (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by Zorba on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 10:43:17 PM EST
    Mere details.   You start with a lawsuit  that will likely lose or get thrown out of court, and you may wind up with a huge attorney bill.  Unless you find an attorney who is willing to work on a contingency basis.

    Parent
    Good point! (none / 0) (#139)
    by nycstray on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 10:49:08 PM EST
    It just kinda screams of ambulance chasing or something at this point to me . . .

    Parent
    If it's an exit door (none / 0) (#147)
    by sj on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 11:49:20 PM EST
    and not a fire escape there is no reason to have an alarm on it.  I know that some theatres have an exit behind the screen to keep congestion down in the main lobby.  I don't know if this is one, my sister might, though. I'll ask her.  

    Parent
    Odd question (none / 0) (#132)
    by ZtoA on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 10:12:36 PM EST
    Does anyone know how to research unsolved murders from a long time ago? I'm interested in finding out about unsolved murders of women (prostitutes?) in Chicago in the late 1930s. Any help getting started would be appreciated.

    Befriend a "cold case" homicide (none / 0) (#135)
    by oculus on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 10:31:41 PM EST
    detective/investigator in the jurisdiction.  

    Parent
    but what does that mean? (none / 0) (#142)
    by ZtoA on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 10:52:23 PM EST
    Not sure of the jurisdiction. Or the exact address in the late 1930s. not sure of the exact dates. Only the family rumors but they have all proved true. Can I just email a 'cold case" detective in all of Chicago?  Otherwise, thanks for the heads up! Seriously, thanks for the starting place!

    Parent
    Or a crime reporter for Chicago Sun-Times, (none / 0) (#144)
    by oculus on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 10:53:44 PM EST
    etc.  

    Parent
    You have had an intriguing life (none / 0) (#148)
    by sj on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 11:53:16 PM EST
    Not that intriguing is also good -- you've made some references to family... issues.  Is this related?

    See, now there I'm asking a question.  I try not to be nosy and let people share just as much as they're willing to share, but you did reach out, I guess.

    Parent

    Well yes, (none / 0) (#150)
    by ZtoA on Wed Jul 25, 2012 at 12:19:15 AM EST
    nice of you to ask. I've been at a family reunion recently. We had a family member (an uncle, but we were so very close) who murdered his kids. They were my beloved first cousins and playmates - not the only ones, just the closest in age.

    Anyhow, my mom showed me a file she kept on him and letters of another (crazy but not murderer) uncle that mentioned a series of murders and we had already thought there were others in the family and community that he had done.

    But the earlier murders were of "prostitutes" and, well, the family does not want to mention any of the murders he was convicted of or the ones that he was directly implicated of (but not charged for, because he's already locked up forever and its the family reputation.)  Actually he passed away years ago but is in the family plot area with a lovely gravestone and his wife and several children (who he probably all murdered) near by with little stones.

    Well I thought it might be good karma to research my uncle's murders and it might be a families' approach to restitution...however many generations forward. It counts. I called a couple of places and followed Occulus's suggestions but I'll need to keep on them to find someone who will talk to me. Maybe there will be no one. But the newspaper idea is good. And actually I have an old friend from highschool who became a forensic something in Chicago who might help to point me in the right direction. Frankly, my family might really resent me ---back to being the black sheep.

    Parent

    Family history/aka secrets can be 'interesting' (5.00 / 2) (#158)
    by nycstray on Wed Jul 25, 2012 at 01:06:20 AM EST
    I think the idea that families (including mine) had to hide things didn't always work out as they planned. Both sides of my family has some 'interesting' history that could have changed some things today if only we had known . . .

    Good wishes on your search for the truth.

    Parent

    Also (none / 0) (#154)
    by ZtoA on Wed Jul 25, 2012 at 12:33:00 AM EST
    this does not represent my reaction and feelings at having a murderer as my beloved uncle when I was a kid.  Can't go there on a blog.

    Finding victims and -hopefully- appoligizing  (or????) is a sort of surgical karma restitution, but in the flesh, murder is a horrible crime. And that crime is experienced as such by way too many people who have to live with it.

    Parent

    I have an inkling about your (5.00 / 1) (#171)
    by sj on Wed Jul 25, 2012 at 09:58:07 AM EST
    complex feelings for your uncle.  I, too, have a much loved uncle that has done a terrible thing.

    I think it is very brave and very lonely thing that you are setting out to do.  I wish for you strength and courage and moments of laughter.

    Parent

    Good luck on your search and I hope (5.00 / 2) (#175)
    by ruffian on Wed Jul 25, 2012 at 10:22:58 AM EST
    you get answers and a measure of peace. I think you are right that finding relatives of victims would be good for you and for them.

    Also maybe look in the Chicago public library for old copies of the newspapers from that time. I'm sure they have them on microfiche. I am always amazed at how much the researchers on shows about genealogy find in old newspapers.

    Parent

    Another suggestion: hire a really good (none / 0) (#188)
    by oculus on Wed Jul 25, 2012 at 02:58:49 PM EST
    investigator.  But this would be expensive. My unsolicited advice:  do not pursue this family history.  

    Parent
    Curious (none / 0) (#192)
    by ZtoA on Wed Jul 25, 2012 at 06:32:24 PM EST
    Curious to hear why this advice. Also, I think the trail is pretty cold.

    Parent
    To me, it would either be a futile (none / 0) (#193)
    by oculus on Wed Jul 25, 2012 at 06:59:57 PM EST
    effort and/ or cause. too much sadness.

    Parent
    Thanks (none / 0) (#196)
    by ZtoA on Wed Jul 25, 2012 at 08:26:06 PM EST
    I'll consider it. I value your opinion.  

    Parent
    Thank you. (none / 0) (#198)
    by oculus on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 12:13:23 AM EST
    One reason I have this doubt is a very good friend who hired an investigator for whom we both have the highest respect. He found her birth mother, who wouldlove not acknowledge my friend as her child. Devastating.

    Parent
    Netflix has 'Atlast Shrugged' in the (none / 0) (#141)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 10:52:09 PM EST
    category "Cerebral Movies".....sigh

    Do I have all night to watch Dagny try to get some?

    Oops...Atlas Shrugged (5.00 / 2) (#143)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 10:53:17 PM EST
    Atlast Shrugged?  Is that the movie where she does finally get some on a regular basis?

    Parent
    Atlast, with a musical score by (none / 0) (#164)
    by DFLer on Wed Jul 25, 2012 at 07:08:46 AM EST
    Etta James ?

    Parent
    Predictable response to Aurora (none / 0) (#160)
    by observed on Wed Jul 25, 2012 at 05:11:24 AM EST
    shooting: Academic fraudster John Lott says the answer is more guns (NY Daily news).
    How can he still get published?
    His reputation is about as bad as Andrew Wakefield's.
    I just love it (none / 0) (#165)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jul 25, 2012 at 07:21:45 AM EST
    The phucking a$$hole that blew everything all to hell has a book that he says solves it all now that he wasn't even able to write.  He claims it's a 4% solution, but I remember this loud mouth pukes math skills from 4 years ago.

    Wisconsin Dems (none / 0) (#166)
    by jbindc on Wed Jul 25, 2012 at 08:12:48 AM EST
    May lose their short-lived majority in the state Senate, over a temper tantrum.

    State Sen. Tim Cullen, a moderate Democrat from Janesville, broke with his party's caucus Tuesday, saying he may become an independent over what he felt were political "insults" by the Senate majority leader.

    Cullen said he made his decision, announced to the rest of the caucus by email, after Sen. Mark Miller, D-Monona, slighted him with committee assignments. Every senator in the caucus was given at least two committee leadership positions. Cullen has none.

    Miller said in a statement Tuesday that Cullen turned down an "important" committee overseeing small business and tourism.

    The immediate result of the defection is not known. Democrats took control of the Senate on July 16 by a 17-16 margin and are still moving into new offices. State Sen. Rich Zipperer, R-Pewaukee, is stepping down Aug. 6 to take over as Gov. Scott Walker's deputy chief of staff, so even if Cullen leaves the party, Democrats will still hold a slim majority: 16-15-1.

    The Senate isn't scheduled to meet until January, and 16 of 33 seats are up for election in November.

    Not that it matters, really, since the Senate is out of session until January.

    Not that they will lose (none / 0) (#197)
    by Towanda on Wed Jul 25, 2012 at 09:12:21 PM EST
    the majority since, as the story says, they will have more than the one-vote margin.

    But you better believe that it matters!  Without a GOP majority in the Senate, he cannot call his special session this summer to ram through right-to-work laws and privatize public employees' pension fund and much more on his agenda.

    Stop Walker was the campaign slogan.

    He has been stopped, at least for some months, and every day matters to the workers in the state, the public workers with their pensions, etc.

    Parent

    Not sure what this means (none / 0) (#199)
    by jbindc on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 07:52:12 AM EST
    But you better believe that it matters!

    I don't believe anything - I am passing on the story because I thought it was interesting, and it really doesn't matter as far as new legislation coming down the pike this year, since the Senate will not be in session unitl January.

    Parent

    What it means is explained in the (5.00 / 1) (#200)
    by Anne on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 08:07:41 AM EST
    sentence that follows - bold is mine:

    Without a GOP majority in the Senate, he cannot call his special session this summer to ram through right-to-work laws and privatize public employees' pension fund and much more on his agenda.

    Not really sure what you don't understand about the significance, now, of which party holds the majority.

    Parent

    He didn't have a GOP majority (none / 0) (#201)
    by jbindc on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 08:17:19 AM EST
    In the Senate anyways, because the Dems won a slim majority in the recall election, so he wasn't going to be able to call a special recess session anyways.

    With the possibility of a Dem Senator threatening to become an independent, it appears that he still won't have a majority, so again, the comment makes no sense.

    Not sure why you can't understand that.

    ZtoA and oculus (none / 0) (#202)
    by sj on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 04:36:46 PM EST
    I wanted to opine on this but the thread was full.
    Thank you. (none / 0) (#198)
    by oculus on Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 12:13:23 AM EST

    One reason I have this doubt is a very good friend who hired an investigator for whom we both have the highest respect. He found her birth mother, who wouldlove not acknowledge my friend as her child. Devastating.

    oculus, I don't think you can compare this to what ZtoA is seeking.  S/he (she?) isn't looking to expand her own family or for any personal gratification at all.  As I understand it, Z wants to be able to ease the minds of some who are carrying a hurt by not knowing what happened.  The pain of of that kind of question doesn't typically ease with time.

    Tuesday Morning Open Thread | 202 comments (202 topical)