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Thursday Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Thu Jun 07, 2012 at 02:37:56 PM EST
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Eric Holder is grilled again over Fast and Furious.

You can watch Alan Dershowitz' original comments about prosecutor Angela Corey in the George Zimmerman case here.

Still busy at work today. Here's an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    Thursday Open Thread | 146 comments (146 topical)

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    R.I.P, Bob Welsh (1947-2012). (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jun 07, 2012 at 08:46:27 PM EST
    Bob Welsh, the former guitarist / vocalist for Fleetwood Mac during its pre-Stevie Nicks / Lindsay Buckingham incarnation who went on to score a couple hit singles ("Sentimental Lady" and "Ebony Eyes") in the late 1970s as a solo act, was found dead in his Nashville home of an apparent self-inflicted gunshot wound. He was 65 years old.

    Sentimental Lady popped up on my random (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by ruffian on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 06:15:20 AM EST
    iPod play in my car yesterday...such a pretty song,  Also like the 'Bare Trees' era Fleetwood Mac.  

    After reading all of the medical horror stories upthread I had pretty much resolved to take things into my own hands when the time comes, but it still makes me sad to hear that someone has ended their own life, no matter what the reason. What makes us cling to life even in the worst conditions, and what makes us let it go? I was trying to play my guitar last night (im the worst) and I think if I even had 1% of Welch's musical ability it would get me thru some dark times.

    Anyway, RIP Mr Welch. I could look away and you'd be gone.

    Parent

    I always used to say that.. (none / 0) (#66)
    by jondee on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 11:19:18 AM EST
    if I could play like Charlie Parker..or Garcia..or Roy Buchanan..or sing like Richard Manuel or Amy Winehouse..what would there be to be despairing about?

    Of course, it's never that simple..

     

    Parent

    Never that simple... (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 11:43:56 AM EST
    hard to find a great one without some kinda inner demons.

    Happiness and contentment just doesn't lend itself to great art, more often than not, or at least thats my excuse...I'm too damn happy.

    Parent

    I'm hard pressed to think (none / 0) (#75)
    by jondee on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 11:57:05 AM EST
    of any artist who was capital G Great who wasn't considered by many to be at least "difficult"..

    You could probably count em on half a hand..

    Maybe part of the problem is that they wind up expecting all the other aspects of their lives to be as ecstatic and "perfect" as their best creative work is..Which, unfortunately, ain't never gonna be the case.

    Parent

    Oops, it's spelled "Bob Welch." (none / 0) (#32)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jun 07, 2012 at 08:49:07 PM EST
    A minor indignity which pails in comparison to his being left out of the Fleetwood Mac's induction into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame -- but still, I apologize.

    Parent
    Hypnotized (none / 0) (#39)
    by jondee on Thu Jun 07, 2012 at 11:18:07 PM EST
    is a great song.

    I've always thought their best stuff before Buckingham and Nicks was better than their best stuff after Buckingham and Nicks. And there's no telling how great Peter Green would've been if he hadn't gotten the mistaken idea that acid was some sort of mystical portal to a higher plain..

    Give me The Green Manalishi, Rattlesnake Shake, Hypnotized and Show Me A Smile any day over Don't Stop, Sara, Over My Head etc Not that they weren't still good after Lindsey and Stevie joined..

    Parent

    I like the later Fleetwood Mac better. (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 02:42:21 PM EST
    I think Stevie Nicks and Lindsay Buckingham brought an energy and verve that was missing from the band prior to their presence. But there's no question that the earlier days of Fleetwood Mac, with Welch and Danny Kurwan on guitars, were both innovative and groundbreaking.

    Their 1972 album Bare Trees is, in my estimation, a true underappreciated classic. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this is also the album in which both John and Christine McVie made their debuts as band members.

    The song "Dust", for which Welch and Christine McVie provided vocals,  has always sent a chill down my spine, and in the wake of Welch's passing, acquires a new and darker meaning.

    And Christine McVie's vocals on "Spare Me a Little of Your Love" provided a real portal to what became the band's future direction, particularly once Nicks and Buckingham joined in 1974.

    Further, most people -- save for die-hard F.M. aficionados -- don't realize that Bare Trees is the album for which "Sentimental Lady" was first recorded, some six years before Welch re-recorded it as a solo artist.

    (And an even more intriguing bit of trivia about that 1978 hit single: both Nicks and Buckingham provided the background vocals for Welch.)

    Aloha, Bob Welch.

    Parent

    Christine is very underrated imo (none / 0) (#133)
    by jondee on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 11:21:41 PM EST
    a regular English blues angel..

    Show Me a Smile just kills me: it always reminds me of my kids when they were little. And I love Spare Me a Little..

    Btw, I keep hearing this rumour about Vera Fermiga playing Christine in an upcoming movie about Beach Boys drummer and beautiful space case Dennis Wilson..

    Parent

    I think so too. Her voice my favorite thing (none / 0) (#138)
    by ruffian on Sat Jun 09, 2012 at 11:00:13 AM EST
    about the later version of Fleetwood Mac.

    Parent
    Let me tell you--without defending cretin docs-- (5.00 / 9) (#34)
    by kmblue on Thu Jun 07, 2012 at 08:59:02 PM EST
    a story about an amazing doctor in a time far, far, away. He was a family doctor.  He gave patients his home phone number.  He made house calls.  He was an excellent diagnostician who saw another doctor's patient and immediately determined the patient probably had cancer and sent the patient at once for treatment.
    He wrote off so many medical bills for people in trouble I can't believe he stayed in business.  He squeezed in patients that needed to be seen immediately, which made for some long waits for other patients, but they didn't seem to mind. He delivered babies and the babies of those babies.  

    When I attended his funeral, his patients and their families jammed the church, standing room only, and I comforted many of them.

    Miss you Dad.

    Great story (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Jun 07, 2012 at 11:33:20 PM EST
    And you must be proud of him.  I wonder how often funerals for today's physicians bring out huge crowds of profoundly grateful patients.

    He sounds like my grandparents, but that was the really old days and that's the way doctors mostly were then.  Mine were in Ohio farm and mining country, lots of immigrant patients who worked in the mines, were desperately poor, had horrible living conditions, couldn't speak much English.  They treated everybody.

    When the Depression hit, nobody could pay even my grandparents' minimal doctor bills, so they treated for free and bought what few medicines there were those days out of their own pocket to give to their patients since they knew they couldn't buy them themselves.

    They were frequently "paid" with farm animals-- a nice heifer here, a handsome yearling horse there-- that their patients couldn't even afford to keep fed, and the upkeep for the extra animals, which they couldn't resist, added to my grandparents' financial burden.

    And then whaddaya know, the local bank, oh so respectable Republicans all, foreclosed on them, the only physicians treating the people in their community.

    My grandfather had a heart attack and died at 50-something in the middle of all that, and my grandmother went to work as a traveling physician for the U.S. public health service for many years.

    One of my uncles then joined the Communist Party, became a labor organizer on the NYC waterfront, fought in the Spanish Civil War, etc., and man, you could not even say the word "bank" around him without provoking an eruption of obscenities.  For the rest of the family, "Republican" would always remain a dirty word.

    If he'd still been alive when Occupy Wall Street started, my uncle would have been out there in the park in his jammies with his walker and a homemade sign and an eye on the nearest copy place to make up hand-written flyers to pass out about the next meeting.

    Parent

    A female GP. Where did they go (none / 0) (#46)
    by oculus on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 02:35:38 AM EST
    to medical school?

    Parent
    Good question (5.00 / 3) (#134)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 11:36:09 PM EST
    Not even a GP in those days because there weren't really any specialists.

    But they both went to Jefferson Medical in PA, which had a pretty revolutionary separate but equal thing called Women's Medical-- same courses, same teachers, but given separately for the women students.

    My grandparents had both been one-room-school teachers up in the hills in PA, where they'd grown up on subsistence farms, and had only "normal school" (ie, teachers college, sort of) education, but medicine was then still so primitive that you didn't need any more preparation than that.

    When the state board medical certifying exams were given, my grandmother came in 1st and my grandfather 2nd-- and she had had two children and kept house during med school.  So kinda like Ginger Rogers doing everything Astaire did only backwards and in high heels.

    Parent

    Your dad was the kind of doctor (none / 0) (#35)
    by Anne on Thu Jun 07, 2012 at 09:13:19 PM EST
    we need more of, practitioners who don't just treat illness or disease, but who know and care for the whole person.

    How proud you must be that this man, who made such a positive difference in so many lives, was your father.

    The world is sadly in need of more like him.

    Parent

    Have I got stories for you (5.00 / 4) (#36)
    by SuzieTampa on Thu Jun 07, 2012 at 10:39:04 PM EST
    I was caring for my father with Alzheimer's when I got diagnosed with leiomyosarcoma, a rare cancer of smooth muscle. One reason I moved home was because of this incident:

    My father, in his 80s and suffering from multiple problems, told someone in a hospital that he wished he could just die. He was shipped to a psych unit. I arrived to find him moaning with pain. I knew he was very stoic, and this wasn't all in his head. But it took a while to persuade the staff to let him see an MD. The doctor discovered he was bleeding internally, and she said he would have died in a couple of hours if left untreated.  

    I flew home, only to find that the hospital had transferred him to a state mental facility because his insurance would no longer cover the hospital. I finally got to talk to him and to the psychiatrist assigned to him. I asked the guy: If you were 84, you had multiple aches and pains, you knew your Alzheimer's would worsen, you shared a room with a psychotic man and you had been involuntarily committed to a state mental hospital, how much antidepressant would it take to make you love life?

    A lawyer was assigned to his case, and Daddy got sprung when he went to court. He shouted at the judge: "They've got me locked up in a f***ing nuthouse." (Or something along those lines.") The judge decided Daddy still had enough cognitive abilities to decide that he'd rather live with his daughter.  

    Oh, my! (5.00 / 2) (#41)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Jun 07, 2012 at 11:43:29 PM EST
    What a story!

    Having been through similar, though nowhere near as extreme, experiences with my mother in her last years, I can totally relate to this.

    It utterly baffles me that medical professionals are so, well, baffled by old people.  Either they pay no attention whatsoever to their mental state and just assume old people are going to be rambling and crazy, or they go nuts at something entirely rational, like your dad, and slap them into basically some kind of institutional custody.

    My mother after hip surgery became basically psychotic from the pain meds they gave her in the hospital, and everybody just assumed she was a crazy old demented lady.  I had to raise holy hell to get somebody to pay attention.  As it turned out, she got so flagrantly paranoid, she wouldn't take anything they gave her, so the meds worked their way out of her system in a couple days and she "miraculously" recovered her senses.

    I could go on.  As i say, nowhere near as dramatic and awful as your experience, but I sure do recognize the pattern of obliviousness.

    Do you realize how much trouble we Baby Boomers are going to be in as we age, with only a tiny fraction of medical people getting even minimal training in gerontology?  Ah!

    Parent

    tormenting old people (5.00 / 2) (#43)
    by SuzieTampa on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 01:29:56 AM EST
    I agree! Dilaudid makes me crazy, and I never want to get it again. Once, I was in the ER with another partial bowel obstruction, and an RN came in to give me meds. I always ask what I'm being given. He said Diluadid. And I was wearing a wristband that listed an "allergy" to Dilaudid.

    I had a big abdominal surgery a year ago, and I wrote across my chest in that purple ink used in hospitals: "NO DILAUDID."

    Parent

    It's different for different people (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 11:09:18 PM EST
    An older friend of mine was made nuts with Dilaudid after surgery, but with my mother it was Vicodin (turned her into what I believe is called a "florid" paranoid-schizophrenic for a couple of days).

    I've since heard of a number of friends' elderly relatives who had the same experience with the drug, but kept taking it, and never recovered their pre-drug cognition status even after the drug was discontinued.

    What makes me nuts is that these reactions apparently don't get reported much because the medical people (and these days, the hospital patients are total strangers to them so they have no way to know what they were like before) just figure the elderly person's normal state is seriously demented to begin with.

    And then there's the issue of dosage.  My mother was given the standard "adult" dosage, though she was a very small and frail elderly person.

    Oh, I don't want to get started on this stuff!  There's so many things like this with elderly patients I experienced or saw, it just makes me furious.

    Parent

    for me it is Fentanyl (none / 0) (#48)
    by TeresaInPa on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 06:05:11 AM EST
    bad drug

    Parent
    Mr. Zorba and I (5.00 / 2) (#55)
    by Zorba on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 08:59:56 AM EST
    were just talking about that this morning.  You would think that physicians would have a realization by now of hospital psychosis, sundowners syndrome, and the paradoxical effects that many medications have on the elderly.
    My father, before he died, had a reaction to pain killers similar to your mother's.  Plus he suffered from sundowners.  Every evening, he would get terribly confused, and he would often hallucinate and become paranoid.  Pain meds made all this much, much worse.  We had to take turns staying over night with him in the hospital.  
    I think we baby Boomers will be in big trouble as we get old and ill, unless they start educating the doctors better in the medical and psychological management of the elderly.

    Parent
    You said it (none / 0) (#130)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 11:13:38 PM EST
    and I see no sign that they're doing this.

    I was gob-smacked to see that the personnel at the very prestigious Boston hospital my mother was in had zero clue even how to deal with somebody who's heard of hearing.

    Half or more of their hospitalized patients are elderly on many floors, and at least half if not more of those will be hearing-impaired, and yet none of them, not a single one, had any sense of how to talk to somebody with little hearing so they'd be understood.

    The whole thing just floored me.  Very nice and caring people, just seriously and inexplicably clueless.

    Parent

    My own story (5.00 / 5) (#38)
    by SuzieTampa on Thu Jun 07, 2012 at 11:01:02 PM EST
    I promise not to be a chatterer! But ... my doctor believed I had cancer. Nevertheless, she told me I could wait a month until my new insurance kicked in. She didn't ask about my insurance, which was the state risk pool, and it wouldn't have penalized me for an existing condition.

    It occurs to me that the rest of my story is sort of graphic, but anyone interested can read it here and here. The first one ends in 2006, and the second one picks up afteward. I wrote the second one myself, but I had to write it in the third person to match the other stories on the site.  

    Oh, Suzie! (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 12:12:12 AM EST
    Chatter away!  You're a very funny person (my mother would say "You think funny") and incredibly honest.  I read the two pieces you linked to just now and was very, very moved, and frequently moved to guffaws of laughter, too.

    I wonder if you've ever read John Hockenberry's book "Moving Violations."  It reminds me a lot of your writing, or better your approach to life-- also very witty, very honest, sometimes very graphic, in places very angry.

    What can I say, you're a pistol.

    Parent

    Thanks! (none / 0) (#44)
    by SuzieTampa on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 01:55:34 AM EST
    I'll have to check out "Moving Violations." Cancer provides so much material for jokes.

    Parent
    Hockenberry (none / 0) (#128)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 11:01:22 PM EST
    is a journalist, now with NPR, I think, where he started, but also did a few years with ABC News and then NBC before he got swept out in one or two or three of the layoffs the networks have been doing.

    Anyway, he's a paraplegic since a car accident when he was a young man, but utterly fearless, reported from crazy places most journalists would hesitate to go, like up in the mountains on the Iraq border on horseback when the Saddam attacked the Kurds and they were pouring out of there and camping out in huge refugee camps on the mountainsides.

    Different situation, obviously, from you, but I thought of him when reading your pieces because you both have a similar indomitable -- and funny -- kind of spirit.  (He's also got fascinating stuff to say about sex when you can't actually feel anything below the shoulders...)


    Parent

    Talk about grace under pressure! (5.00 / 2) (#47)
    by oculus on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 03:11:19 AM EST
    An amazing read. And such a sense of humor. I doubt the doctors at those medical meetings sit up straight and listen.  

    Parent
    Thank you for sharing your story, Suzie. (5.00 / 2) (#56)
    by Anne on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 09:12:01 AM EST
    Your take on so much of what was happening to you reminded me a bit of my dad's brutal honesty about his own situation after he was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer in 1988.  It was, as pancreatic cancer usually was - and still is - diagnosed when it was well advanced, and at that time, his options were to subject himself to a lot of experimental treatment and clinical trials, or opt for palliative care to make his remaining time on earth as tolerable as possible.

    He went with Door No. 2 - palliative.

    Anyway, we had a conversation one day about his funeral.  He wanted to be cremated, and absolutely did not want his body available for "viewing."  He said, "I just don't want people standing over me, saying things like, 'gee, he looks so good,' or 'oh, they did such a good job - doesn't he look natural?' because what I will look like is DEAD!"

    When he died - not of the cancer but of a massive heart attack, quickly and painlessly, which is how he wanted to go - we had him cremated, and instead of viewing his body, we collected photos of him from throughout his life and placed them all over the anteroom of the church where people gathered for visiting with us.  It was how he wanted to be remembered - how we and those who loved and knew him wanted to remember him, and that spirit was so much more present in that atmosphere than it ever would have been had we done it the "traditional" way.

    Parent

    Similar last wishes... (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 09:32:15 AM EST
    as my pops...did not want a viewing or a wake or a funeral, he wanted a quick cremation and a celebration of his life.  Totally agree it was much easier for us mourners than the traditional wake & funeral.

    The last part of his wishes was to spread his ashes anywhere but American soil.  Pops sent us on one last family vacation together to boot.  We chose Bermuda, Horseshoe Beach.  

    Parent

    Reminds me of Joe Hill.. (5.00 / 2) (#70)
    by jondee on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 11:36:11 AM EST
    the executed IWW singer/organizer. Bury me anywhere but Utah..

    He sounds like a one-of-a-kind character. Probably come back as one of those wizened two hundred year old giant sea turtles..Winging his way through the cool blue..

    Parent

    What a wonderful image (none / 0) (#131)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 11:15:21 PM EST


    Parent
    Black humor story time: (5.00 / 3) (#97)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 03:05:16 PM EST
    After my uncle passed away suddenly and unexpectedly in 1993 from a heart attack at age 56, his wake included an open casket for viewing. I had always been close to him, as he was one of my male role models after my father was killed, and he and my aunt always took it upon themselves to include me in family outings, etc.  

    In the reception line, everyone kept telling my aunt how the funeral home did such an outstanding job. And so toward the end, after a family friend told her how wonderful and peaceful my uncle looked, she turned toward me slyly with a wry smile on her face, and said to me in a low voice so that no one else could hear, "I think he looks dead as a doornail, don't you?"

    :-P

    Parent

    What a great idea, Anne (none / 0) (#100)
    by kmblue on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 03:15:15 PM EST
    Dad insisted on being cremated.  We had a big photo of him at the front of the church, but I wish we had had more.

    I picked up his ashes and started crying while I was driving home.  I could swear I heard my dad's voice say, "Don't cry. It's only ashes."

    Parent

    WOW Suzy,,, (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by fishcamp on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 02:08:54 PM EST
    that's a very sad but extremely funny story.  I had a colostomy bag for two months and thought that was bad.  Nothing like your stuff girl.  Keep the spirit.  xoxo

    Parent
    thanks! (5.00 / 3) (#119)
    by SuzieTampa on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 07:50:06 PM EST
    I better start thinking of new jokes, in case I need to get a colostomy in the future. I already have the title, though. "Mama's got a brand-new bag."

    Parent
    Simply brilliant. (none / 0) (#64)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 11:05:04 AM EST


    Parent
    Some QB That I Used to Know (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 09:57:33 AM EST
    Awesome parody on Gotye's hit involving Manning and Tebow.  
    The Tebow girl's lyrics had me in tears.

    Love the song (none / 0) (#63)
    by sj on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 10:07:38 AM EST
    I have from the first time I heard it.  Can't wait to view the parody later.  But wow!  Look at all that can be said about a song that is only about a year old.  Pretty impressive when you think about it.  Also impressive that a cover of the song is getting airplay on Sirius radio while the original is also still getting airplay.

    Parent
    Pretty wild video posted at americablog (none / 0) (#1)
    by magster on Thu Jun 07, 2012 at 03:18:22 PM EST
    Greek Nazi party spokesman throws water on one woman and then slaps 3 times another woman on the Greek equivalent show of the McLauglin group.

    Also, Gov. Scott in FL claims he can do purge despite what to me looks like a slam-dunk position by DOJ on a 90 day deadline to complete "purges" before a federal election. Anyone with more knowledge able to justify Scott, or justify his claim that he's entitled to Homeland Security files?

    Why wasn't this guy indicted ... (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jun 07, 2012 at 08:51:06 PM EST
    ... for HMO-related healthcare fraud when they had the opportunity?

    Parent
    Don't you just love it when freedom loving (none / 0) (#4)
    by ruffian on Thu Jun 07, 2012 at 03:44:38 PM EST
    Tea Party governors grab for the homeland security files?

    Parent
    don't tell me (none / 0) (#2)
    by jondee on Thu Jun 07, 2012 at 03:22:19 PM EST
    the Nazi was playing the Rich Lowrey part..

    you made me google ... (none / 0) (#3)
    by magster on Thu Jun 07, 2012 at 03:40:21 PM EST
    lol. Are you referring to when Lowry refused to fight Al Franken in 2000?

    Parent
    the rest of that piece (none / 0) (#5)
    by jondee on Thu Jun 07, 2012 at 03:49:13 PM EST
    is revealing as well: Lowry all in a tizzy about the "feminization" of Der Fatherland..

    Pink triangle time..

    Parent

    Oh, please! Rich Lowry has ... (none / 0) (#25)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jun 07, 2012 at 08:18:05 PM EST
    ... no business lamenting the loss of masculinity in this country -- unless, of course, it's his own.

    ;-D

    Off to breakfast and then a tour of old Saigon. Talk later. Aloha.

    Parent

    Another conservative.. (none / 0) (#71)
    by jondee on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 11:40:40 AM EST
    worried about gay people in close proximity causing him to crash through the door of the Log Closet against his will..

    Parent
    Fun polls (none / 0) (#6)
    by jbindc on Thu Jun 07, 2012 at 04:22:49 PM EST
    5 months out - always fun to predict the trends.

    Romney now leading Obama by 1 in Michigan in the latest EPIC-MCA poll out yesterday.  Obama slipping in popularity, even with the infamous "Romney op-ed opposing auto bailout" that some said would guarantee his defeat.  

    Will this change over the next 5 months? Probably. Romney has spent a lot of money recently in the state. But losing ground at this stage is not good, especially for an incumbent.  

    Speaking of fun with polls... (none / 0) (#7)
    by magster on Thu Jun 07, 2012 at 04:29:07 PM EST
    .. i think it was you in an open thread yesterday who said that Bain wasn't helping Obama, and I replied that the polls said otherwise. Well JedL reposted that poll.

    Parent
    Ah, DKos polls (none / 0) (#9)
    by jbindc on Thu Jun 07, 2012 at 04:54:46 PM EST
    The same ones that were so badly off in Wisconsin....

    That's why polls are fun!

    Parent

    The DKos polls in WI said Barrett would lose. (none / 0) (#15)
    by magster on Thu Jun 07, 2012 at 05:21:22 PM EST
    It's PPP. Kos just pays for it.

    Parent
    Especially EPIC-MRA (none / 0) (#16)
    by christinep on Thu Jun 07, 2012 at 05:24:25 PM EST
    Don't they poll for the Chamber of Commerce & suchlike?  Yep, it is fun.

    As for me, I'm especially--for fun, mind you--tracking the various "battleground" states.

    Parent

    The poll was for (none / 0) (#51)
    by jbindc on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 07:56:43 AM EST
    the Detroit Free Press - the liberal paper in Detroit

    Parent
    You are correct, jbindc...BUT (none / 0) (#68)
    by christinep on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 11:21:12 AM EST
    Some caveats may be in order:Reading EPIC'S description of the survey, it involved a screening device that may be a bit premature--and which screen historically favors slightly Republican voters--in that those polled were identified as "active & likely voters."  For example,  that descriptor could be somewhat narrow if failure to vote in the off-year (2010) is used to screen out.  

    Apart from that, it should be noted that the EPIC spokesman said the finding was reversed when other info, like Romney's position on the auto bailout , was included.  Also:  He noted that an unusual aspect in the week prior had been the $$$ deployed on a concentrated, targeted ad buy. IMO, tho, the EPIC poll is a good reminder for us Dems to keep the ad buys going in Michigan (not to take it for granted, especially since there are lots of political & personal reasons for Romney to push hard there) and to repeat repeat repeat the auto buyout successfully initiated by the President & opposed by Mr. Romney.

    Parent

    Clarification (none / 0) (#69)
    by christinep on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 11:23:56 AM EST
    The concentrated , targeted ad buy that occurred last week was from the Romney side.

    Parent
    Anybody else ever been fired by their family doc? (none / 0) (#8)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Jun 07, 2012 at 04:53:06 PM EST
    I have a sinus thing going on so I just called our family doc to make an appointment, and got one for Monday AM.

    A couple minutes later I get a call back from the doc's office from the person I made the appointment with and she said "You didn't tell me you haven't been here since 2007."

    I had to pause a second so see if there was any hint of humor in her voice, but there clearly was not.

    So I said "Is there a problem with that?" and she said "Yes. We have to treat you like a new patient and won't be able to schedule you an appointment until the end of July." To which I said "The end of July?!" And she said "Yes. What other doctor have you been seeing?" And I said "No other doctor, I haven't been sick." And she said, "Well, the first appointment we have is for the end of July."

    To which I said "So you don't want me for a patient anymore?" And she said, "If that's what you choose to take it." And I said, "How else can I take it? I'm sick now, not - I hope - 7 weeks from now."

    And she said, "You should go to an urgent care clinic if you need to be seen now."

    Really? Is that how they run their business?!

    "Single payer, now!!!!" (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by oculus on Thu Jun 07, 2012 at 04:55:43 PM EST
    Oh, wait, the doctors still get to choose whether to accept single payer or fly alone.  

    Parent
    Ha! Actually my dad still has some sort of VA (none / 0) (#13)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Jun 07, 2012 at 05:13:04 PM EST
    coverage from injuries he got in WW2, and he always complains that he has to wait weeks and weeks for appointments.

    The good news is there are a lot of docs out there so I don't imagine it will take too long to find another who's got an appointment open soon.

    Parent

    Did you tell her... (5.00 / 3) (#11)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Jun 07, 2012 at 04:59:34 PM EST
    you simply wouldn't put up with such claptrap?

    Parent
    Just googled around. Looks like the problem (5.00 / 3) (#17)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Jun 07, 2012 at 05:52:30 PM EST
    I'm having is due to seasonal allergies. So OTC antihistamines should do the trick. Take that
    Dr. Too Busy!

    Parent
    There is the Hydro Pulse too if that (none / 0) (#26)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jun 07, 2012 at 08:19:05 PM EST
    doesn't do the trick for you.  I have horrible allergy/sinus problems since moving here.  I had a sinus surgery too, and it helped but didn't fully fix me.  I would get sinus infections a few times a year until my husband got me the Hydro Pulse but always use distilled water to avoid nasty things in the water that can get into your brain because that happened to a few people last year :)

    My doctor put me on Veramyst and Pantanase (both nasal sprays) and that did it for me, no more problems there.  Before that though the Hydro Pulse would stop a sinus infection.

    Parent

    Thanks! I hadn't heard of the Hydro Pulse before. (none / 0) (#65)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 11:07:42 AM EST


    Parent
    Ha! (none / 0) (#12)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Jun 07, 2012 at 05:10:35 PM EST


    Parent
    Some (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by lentinel on Thu Jun 07, 2012 at 06:22:07 PM EST
    years ago, I had what I believed to be appendicitis. It began on a Sunday night, and by Monday morning the pain had intensified.  I had been taught by a doctor a simple test - pressing on the opposite side and letting go to see if the pain was clearly felt on the appendix side. It was. It was localized where the appendix was.

    I called my doctor and said, "I believe I have appendicitis".
    The nurse, or receptionist or whatever said,"Doctor can see you on Thursday". (As I mentioned, this was Monday morning.)

    Stunned, I waited a few beats and repeated: "I think I have appendicitis". I think she took in that there might be some urgency involved at that point and agreed to let me see the doctor that afternoon.
    He complimented me on my diagnosis and sent me to the hospital.

    But that line from her about "Next Thursday" will stay with me forever as a symbol of how detached the medical profession has become from the people it is supposed to serve.


    Parent

    I had a similar experience... (5.00 / 3) (#21)
    by Anne on Thu Jun 07, 2012 at 07:54:29 PM EST
    Five days after I dislocated my shoulder trying not to fall down the basement steps I had slipped on, and two days after I had a follow up with an an ortho doc in his office, my neighbor was giving me a ride to work.  I got in the car, reached out to close the door - and my shoulder slipped out of the socket again...I can't even begin to describe how painful that was, other than to tell you that I at once wanted to throw up and pass out.

    My husband had gone to work, so my neighbor - Debi - drove me to the ER.  On the way, I called the ortho doc I had just seen two days earlier, to let them know what had happened.  

    Imagine my dismay when I was told that he could see me at 10:30 - it was, at that time, about 7:30.  I said, do you understand that my shoulder is out of the socket and I can't just sit around for three hours?  Do you know what happens to tendons and muscles and ligaments when a dislocation isn't reduced in a timely fashion?  It was all I could do not to scream at this dimwit.

    Biting my tongue, I told her what hospital I was going to, asked her to let the doc know, and do you know, he never came, never even called, never followed up with me later?  To make matters worse, this was my department head's son-in-law.  Talk about "wanna get away?"  Sheesh.

    To make matters even worse, when I saw the new doc several days after this second ER visit - there was no way I was going back to Dr. I-can-see-you-at-10:30 - he instantly - and I do mean "instantly" - identified from the xray that I had actually broken the rim of the socket and that's why the shoulder slipped out so easily the second time.

    Had to have it surgically repaired, of course.

    I even got the xrays the first doc took and let new doc look, and he could see the break on those, too.  Quack doc told me I didn't even need to use the sling I had been given in the hospital - something the ER staff couldn't believe when I was there the second time.

    Live and learn, huh?  I'd have needed the surgery even if the break had been identified after the first dislocation, but I could have been spared the trauma of the second, painful, dislocation - that further damaged everything in the joint.

    There were people who thought I should sue - but how do you sue the doctor whose wife is the daughter of your boss?  I had been through enough at that point, so I just let it go.

    Parent

    I had (5.00 / 3) (#24)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jun 07, 2012 at 08:17:55 PM EST
    a doctor who failed to call me back with test results letting me know that the results were malignant. They finally called me about 3 months later realizing that I had not been "told" but in reality I had been told because I called my family practice doctor who immediately "got on the horn" and found out the test results. Before I finally called my family practice doctor, I was calling their office everyday for my results and the twit in the office kept telling me to call back later that afternoon and then I would call back in the afternoon and they had turned the phones off for the day. I left message after message that was NEVER returned. It left me with the impression that the bigger a twit you are, the more LIKELY you are to be hired to work in a doctor's office!

    Parent
    Good Lord, that's horrible. (5.00 / 4) (#27)
    by Anne on Thu Jun 07, 2012 at 08:21:47 PM EST
    No, it's worse than that - it's negligent, bordering on malpractice, in my opinion.

    Thank goodness you had a doctor who followed through.

    Parent

    You are describing (5.00 / 3) (#28)
    by christinep on Thu Jun 07, 2012 at 08:28:46 PM EST
    what can only be called a living nightmare.  I've heard (& even witnessed) a number of mix-ups with hospitals/doctors, but this one takes the cake. After all those screw-ups, some guardian angel had to be watching ultimately to ensure that your are here.  Thanks be to the Guardian Angel.

    Parent
    My cousin just told me last night (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jun 07, 2012 at 08:46:09 PM EST
    A story "almost" as bad.  Her husband is not even 50 yet and has cancer, started out as colon cancer.  Because he is so young his doctors and he have been fighting it like hell too.  He has had so much chemo though, it makes me hurt for him thinking about it.  But his youngest child just graduated from high school this year, I would have to fight that hard too if I were him.  He went for his chemo last week though and one of his blood tests came back with something very low and they said they couldn't do the chemo.  He was a police officer, and he said offhandedly that maybe he should just put a bullet in his head.  He meant it darkly...jokingly, but suddenly he was locked in a padded room at the hospital, my cousin locked out, and the psych doctor couldn't get to him for another 12 hours.  In the meantime he is very weak, and received no food or liquids or even the meds he was supposed to be taking until the psych doctor could get to him.  After the doctor did eval him he was really pissed at the chemo people for having an over reaction and setting off that chain of miserable events.  He also ordered the blood tests again just to make certain that chemo had to be stopped and the second set came back fine.  What a fricken horror story though.  I don't know how my cousin by blood or marriage made it through it that day.

    Parent
    I had a dermatologist who ... (5.00 / 6) (#29)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jun 07, 2012 at 08:34:42 PM EST
    ... was a pretty popular doctor, and who kept telling me that this lump on the back of my neck was an infection, and he'd give me antibiotics. The swelling would go down, and then come back.

    At the third visit (this was almost six years ago), he examined me for less than five minutes and then wrote out another prescription "for a stronger antibiotic," and on my way downstairs, I decided impetuously to go see the sister of a friend of mine, who's also a dermatologist in the same physicians' office building. She took me right in without an appointment, saw it, decided right then and there to cut it out, and sent it in for biopsy. The next day she called me back in, and told me it was melanoma.

    I ended up having to undergo a rather aggressive and rigorous radiation therapy, four days a week for nine weeks, because when she examined my past history, she didn't want to take the chance that it might have spread into the surrounding tissue and the few lymph nodes I have left in my neck from my previous bouts with Hodgkin's lymphoma.

    Dr. Popular could've killed me with his assembly-line practice, nonchalance and neglect. Oh, and my insurance company dropped me after I started radiation.

    Bring on single payer.

    Parent

    "... my insurance company... (none / 0) (#50)
    by Gandydancer on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 07:21:06 AM EST
    ...after I started radiation." Did you sue them?

    Parent
    I should clarify ... (none / 0) (#98)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 03:08:09 PM EST
    ... that they effectively covered my treatments, and then dropped me. But I had received notice while I was still undergoing radiation.

    Parent
    Yoiks--you have more patience than I (none / 0) (#20)
    by christinep on Thu Jun 07, 2012 at 07:21:14 PM EST
    The line would stay with me forever & a day.

    Parent
    Last month (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by Mr Tuxedo on Thu Jun 07, 2012 at 06:49:13 PM EST
    I took an 88-year-old friend to see his new internist. Not once but twice while we were in the examining room, the doctor's surly receptionist opened the door without knocking and asked the doctor a question unrelated to my friend or his situation. The second time, she asked about another patient -- by name! If that guy were my doctor, I would fire him, effectively immediately.

    Parent
    Never heard (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jun 07, 2012 at 08:12:59 PM EST
    this from a doctor but I have heard it from a dentist. Well, I take that back, I did hear it from my child's psychiatrist who wanted to know why we had not been there in years. I told him that we had Kaiser insurance and had to go to their doctor. That seemed to pacify him somewhat but why the heck should I have to explain to him why we were coming back to see him???? What is with these doctors and this stuff?

    Parent
    Ditched, Not Fired (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 11:45:34 AM EST
    A friend of mine has all kinds of back issues, she had at one time 4 or 5 doctors for it and the related problems.

    Last year she decided to file for social security, she got 2 letters in the mail stating that because the problem couldn't be resolved they would no longer consider her a patient.  Another simply told her, when she tried to schedule an appointment, that if it wasn't related to a past surgery he performed, they wouldn't make the appointment.

    These were people she had seen for years fairly regularly and she sends them paperwork for SS and they slam the door in her face.

    The only person that didn't was her pain doctor and he actually helped her find people who specialize in helping people in her situation.  But even then, he was extremely hesitant to put his signature to a form.

    Her back isn't some borderline case, she has several herniated disks that can't be operated on because of Scoliosis and Osteoporosis.  She's young with the back of an old lady that leaves her at times, helpless.  Add in the numerous issues that prolonged pain medication creates and it really sucks.

    She had worked for her whole life, and has contributed, like most of us, a lot of money into the system and when life handed her some lemons, the people sworn to help, could not run fast enough.

    What I can't figure out is why.  Do they not want to fill out the paperwork because they aren't getting paid for it, or it some right wing ideology related to social security, or maybe some sort of liability exposure.  These are people she would see monthly and had been a patient for at least 5 years.

    To me it's unforgivable.

    Parent

    Yes, it is (5.00 / 2) (#84)
    by Zorba on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 01:28:28 PM EST
    unforgivable, Scott.  And if your friend is trying to get Social Security Disability (which is what I assume she is trying to apply for), please tell her to get a lawyer, and not to give up.  I know several people who are disabled because of severe pain and other issues such as your friend, and the only ones who were (finally) able to receive SS Disability were whose who were willing to get a lawyer and fight it through to the bitter end.  Tell your friend that I wish her well, and Godspeed.

    Parent
    I Did That Over a Year Ago... (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 02:56:10 PM EST
    ... but a lawyer can't make a doctor write a report.

    I believe everything is done and in the lawyer's hands.  I have been trying to stay out of it.  I have a knack for adding fuel to the fire...

    But for a long time she was at a standstill with one of the pain doctors telling her she simply doesn't get involved with that kind of stuff.  At least she had the decency to say it to her face, I guess.

    My experience with the entire system only proves that doctors are in it for the cash and most of them shouldn't be working on lab rats, much less human beings.  I could write a book about my bad experiences and professionalism including an allergic reaction that resulted in the ER.  That one was was mind boggling at how fast the denial and cover up moved in.  And of course that big fat bill.  Anyways, that entire industry gets a well earned zero respect from me.

    They do nothing but make sure their own a$$es are covered, the patient is the last thing they care about IMO.

    Parent

    This is, unfortunately (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by Zorba on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 04:59:47 PM EST
    all too true.  Years and years ago, I had to help my mother try to get worker's compensation (different from SS Disability, I realize, but still really, truly difficult to get).  She was injured at work, and the first doctor she saw was a total @sshole.  An unfeeling, total SOB.  And her first attorney was also really useless.  I badgered her until she fired the first attorney and got another one (with my help), and she was finally able to get at least some worker's comp.
    {{Sigh}}  It shouldn't be this hard.

    Parent
    doctor's reports (none / 0) (#127)
    by diogenes on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 10:47:27 PM EST
    You are welcome to have all medical records sent to Social Security Disability.  Social Security Disability has medical staff and judges who review them.  Doctors are obliged to forward medical records.  If you want to hire a doctor to write a special report to advocate then perhaps you should retain an expert witness.


    Parent
    Second that based on experience of loved ones (none / 0) (#85)
    by ruffian on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 01:34:30 PM EST
    Hope she keeps at it. A social worker can help also.

    Parent
    Scott, why do you think it is (none / 0) (#122)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 08:21:13 PM EST
    some:

    "right wing ideology related to social security,"

    Have you any proof that the evileeeee Right is against people with a medical problem seeing a doctor??

    My guess is that one of two things happened:

    1. The doctors felt uncomfortable in saying that she was disabled and should receive disability payments from SocSec. Are they right?? Seems to they're wrong based on your description but I have no expertise or know that your information is correct.

    2. The doctors fear that they are going to be sued for malpractice. "You treated me for years and the results are that I am disabled."


    Parent
    Actually, Jim, the ... (5.00 / 3) (#125)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 09:10:28 PM EST
    ... Social Security Administration routinely disallows over 90% of all disability claims from first time applicants, simply as a matter of course. You cannot have any other outside income, and you cannot be currently receiving some other form of disability benefits, such as workers' compensation or disability payments from your state.

    Now, to be sure, there are a lot of people who file some pretty specious or frivious SSDI claims, i.e., dyslexia or mild anxiety disorders, etc. But such shirkers ultimately comprise only a decided minority of applications.

    The vast majority of claims are filed by people who have been seriously injured, have become seriously ill, or have developed a serious mental or emotional disability that clearly precludes their ability to hold a full-time or even part-time job.

    However, when you apply for SSDI (Soc. Security Disability Insurance) benefits, you can neither refer to nor cite your own physician's determination in your application. Rather, you are instead referred to an SSA-appointed doctor who runs an assembly-line practice dealing exclusively with SSDI claimants. He or she will give you a very cursory five-minute examination, and then more often than not will report to SSA that there's still some forms of employment you can do.

    It's not uncommon for some seriously disabled and ill people, including cancer patients such as my cousin (who suffers from leukemia), to be told that they can still hold a job as a security officer and monitor security cameras while sitting in an office. Boom! - claim denied.

    You have the right to appeal the SSA's initial denial of your claim, and you have the right to an attorney to help you with that appeal. If you file an appeal, you should keep in mind that it takes an average of 18 months before you can get a scheduled hearing before an administrative judge, who hears only SSDI claims. If you retain an attorney, it is only then that your personal physician's determination of your disability can be entered as evidence -- and he or she can do so by subpoena, if necessary.

    Further, I'd note that your attorney is required by federal law to take your case strictly upon a contingency basis, which means that if the initial denial of your claim is ultimately upheld by the judge who heard your appeal, the attorney can collect no fees. However, if your claim is ruled valid, then the attorney is paid directly by the SSA either 25% of your back benefits awarded from date of initial application or $6,000, whichever is the lesser amount.

    Less than 20% of all people who are initially denied their claims will resort to an appeal after being turned down. However, of those who do appeal the intial decision with the assistance of an attorney, it's important to note that approximately 85% of all initial denials of claims are subsequently overturned by the SSA administrative judge.

    Finally, it's vitally important to remember what SSDI means -- Social Security Disability Insurance. As a working person, you've been paying for this coverage your entire working life. Therefore, it's only fair that it should be truly made available when you really need it.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Uh Donald.. (none / 0) (#126)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 10:43:25 PM EST
    I fully understand that applications are turned down...

    Didn't know that you couldn't initially use your doctor's diagnosis but could on appeal.

    And I have no idea what your comment has to do with my response to Scott.

    Parent

    SSDI (none / 0) (#141)
    by SuzieTampa on Sat Jun 09, 2012 at 02:29:17 PM EST
    Donald, do you practice this kind of law? I'm curious because I think your statement about diagnoses is incorrect. The facts are really important to me because, as a peer-to-peer talker, I often recommend people apply for SSDI even though they've heard horror stories.

    Applicants list their doctors so that the SSA's medical professionals can review medical records. Some of us are fast-tracked. For example, I was approved in less than 2 months in 2003 because I have/had metastatic sarcoma, which is considered terminal.

    The form had a place for me to list my medical problems, and I was free to put in anything I wanted. No one made me see an SSA doctor.

    I know it's hard to get SSDI if you're still working. But you can have outside income, such as income from investments. Also, I question the statement that you can't have any other disability payments. I have friends who get SSDI plus disability benefits from their previous employer.

    I've been talking to a newly diagnosed person who worked for SSA. She thought lawyers rarely made a difference in determinations, and was aghast that they got so much of the back benefits.  

    Parent

    I don't mean to discourage ... (none / 0) (#143)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Jun 09, 2012 at 05:55:15 PM EST
    ... people from applying for SSDI. Far from it.

    I just want people to be aware of the process, because I used to do this type of work for SSDI and VA applicants. Further, I want to encourage people to be fully prepared to follow though with an appeal, once the initial denial letter is received.

    I'm really very happy that your case was fast-tracked and approved. From my experience, that's not at all common, but it does happen. I thik it depends upon who initially reviews your application.

    My cousin initially applied last November and was turned down, even though she was actually hosptialized with leukemia at the time! I have a very dear friend in Orange County who's an attorney that deals with these types of cases, and he is now representing her on appeal. They just got word that her appeal is being fast-tracked, which is good because as I said above, it takes an average of 18 months get get a hearing scheduled. It's not uncommon for terminally ill patients to expire before their claim is finally approved.

    Ultimately, the initial application process seems to be awfully arbitrary, and weighte heavily in favor of the government's position.

    Did you engage an attorney, or did you do apply on your own?

    Anyway, thank you for your post and insight, and for sharing your experience. Aloha.

    Parent

    Does the attorney to whom you refer (none / 0) (#144)
    by oculus on Sat Jun 09, 2012 at 08:20:21 PM EST
    take cases pronating in San Diego County?

    Parent
    I applied on my own (none / 0) (#145)
    by SuzieTampa on Sat Jun 09, 2012 at 10:49:25 PM EST
    Our experiences probably differ because I'm usually dealing with people who have metastatic sarcoma, and they generally get fast-tracked, unless there's some other issue.

    For us, the biggest issue is that we don't get Medicare for 2 years after we're approved for SSDI. Basically, the govt is saying: "We've determined you have a terminal illness, but we won't pay for any of your health care for 2 years. Good luck!"

    Parent

    In the interests of accuracy (none / 0) (#136)
    by jondee on Sat Jun 09, 2012 at 02:24:08 AM EST
    Scott asked a question: COULD it have to do with institutionalized right wing ideology (among other things..)

    And yes, eeevil is as good a word as any for Norquistian types who, in their anti "big government" jihad, make it more difficult for people in need to get the kind of assistance they require.

     

    Parent

    Jim (none / 0) (#146)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Jun 11, 2012 at 10:18:37 AM EST
    Because after the Health Care debate, to me it was obvious where the doctors seem to stand and it wasn't on the side of their patients.

    But more importantly, I clearly don't know.  What I do know is they are not comfortable with any of it, why ?

    She wasn't looking for someone to say she deserved this or that, she just wanted them to write an accurate report about her condition.  Nothing more/less.  No conclusions needed, but even that, which to me clearly falls under their duties, was too much.  And it wasn't one or two, it was a pattern.

    The conclusions are for the SS office to make, no ?  No doctor says patient X deserves these benefits.  I could be wrong, but that seems to be what the attorney is saying.  This is all new to me and I for one hope I never have to deal with it again.  From my view, the hyperbole about people getting benefits for non-sense simply can't be true.  

    My friend had an excellent job at a huge gas and oil company here in Houston.  She has a bachelors degree in accounting and was studying for her CPA.  She was easily the most fiscally smart person I know, she went almost 2 years without any help and no income, and only filed because of me.  She still thinks she doesn't deserve it, she is proud and if anything this experience has taught me, it will break even the most proudest person.  It is miserable and not a system for people who are truly incapable of working.  No one can go this amount of time without some help, yet that is exactly what they expect.

    And quit bringing in the ability to validate my info, lying here does nothing for me, you idiot.  As if I am going to bring in comments here as proof to help whatever it is you think it would help with.  Or I am running some sort of game for popularity here, pretty sure you can attest that I am not real concerned with my popularity at TL.

    So I don't know, and really sorry it one of my guesses offended your right wing sensibilities.  But that isn't really my fault, now is it Jim.

    Parent

    Yes--we were! (none / 0) (#14)
    by the capstan on Thu Jun 07, 2012 at 05:14:41 PM EST
    We belonged to an HMO for a couple of years.  Early on, my husband could not get an immediate appt. and asked permission to go to our previous doctor here.

    "No way!" was the office answer.  "You are not that sick, anyway."  So, being who he was, my husband said some angry words.  And that was it--the entire family was kicked off his list of patients and had to hunt for another office--still farther away.

    The HMO saved us money, yes: my husband was treated for a possible TEA (mini stroke) and it cost us nothing.  But the new doctor also was a bit of mini-dictator, so we made our way back to our old doctor (who listens to us) and what was at that time somewhat inferior insurance.

    Parent

    TIA (none / 0) (#23)
    by the capstan on Thu Jun 07, 2012 at 08:14:00 PM EST
    Not TEA; mentally mis-spelled 'ischemic.'

    Parent
    The trick is to get a primary care physician (none / 0) (#37)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jun 07, 2012 at 10:47:01 PM EST
    who is a member of a group with lots of specialist and an urgent care clinic, all of whom can access the same data base and see your complete health history, drugs, tests, etc.

    Not so important now but it is important later when you may be taking several drugs and have had various tests ran that may be of interest to the Doctor who us treating you.

    And yes, welcome to the brave new world of the same type of medical care we got in the service. You take whatever Doctor is on duty...

    (And no, I didn't say it's nice, just how it is.)

    Parent

    You're right, to an extent. (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 06:50:09 PM EST
    jimakaPPJ: "And yes, welcome to the brave new world of the same type of medical care we got in the service. You take whatever Doctor is on duty."

    That's why as a consultant, I'm working closely with not-for-profit community health centers, which will be the key to future health care delivery in this country, especially as escalating operating costs (particularly malpractic insurance) drive many physicians from private practice and into HMOs and medical cooperatives.

    I know the term "community health center" scares a lot of people, because it conjures up various images of the psychodelic Summer of Love and the Haight-Ashbury Free Clinic and STDs and strung-out patients who got sick from sharing hypodermic needles, but really, it's not anything at all like that now.

    Most community health centers today are modern, state-of-the-art outpatient facilities that provide high-quality and affordable medical and dental care. CHCs are far more likely than most private facilities to have and use the type of electronic record keeping you mentioned, which allows for the kind of coordinated and integrated care most people want and need.

    And because they are community-owned and -managed and operate on low margins, they have an incentive to contain costs, so as a CHC patient, you're probably not going to have to endure those types of unnecessary medical tests and procedures that you really don't need but are scheduled anyway in private practice, which can otherwise drive up the overall cost of health care delivery.

    In rural communities in particular, which tend not to attract too many physicians as it is nowadays, you're far more likely to find and obtain the type of medical specialization you may need through a community health center, than through private practicioners.

    The Molokai Community Health Center, for instance, has the island's only pediatrician, OB/GYN, and gerontologist, and its only psychologists and substance abuse counselors. MCHC also provides high-quality dental care to over half the island, and in late August, they are opening an urgent care clinic.

    CHCs are our future, and honestly, that future isn't so bad at all. If Marcus Welby, M.D. were practicing today, he would most likely be the senior primary care physician at your local community health center.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Sounds like a good idea to me (none / 0) (#120)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 08:12:49 PM EST
    The point I was making was that if you get what you think is a sore throat you show up at the Urgent Care and the doctor who is there is who you get. Just like the military.

    For a valid single payer system to work people are going to have to accept the fact the the "doctor" is actually more of a score keeper who sees you only in a non-emergency situation.

    Parent

    For many people, it's already like that. (5.00 / 2) (#123)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 08:33:43 PM EST
    Most Americans don't enjoy a free and unfettered choice of doctors, simply because there are fewer and fewer physicians in private practice nowadays.

    You can have your own personal physician in a community health center, just as you can have on in an HMO. It's the pool from which you can choose that's being diminished by the harsh economic realities being imposed upon our country's health care delivery system.

    A single payer system simply removes the middleman, i.e., the health insurance companies, from the equation, and effectively exorcises their toxic presence from the relationship you can establish with your personal health care provider, whether its a physician in private practice, or one affiliated with an HMO, medical cooperative or a community health center.

    And practically speaking, we're already more than paying for a single payer system. But for painfully obvious reasons, we're just not reaping its benefits.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    I agree (none / 0) (#58)
    by sj on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 09:47:36 AM EST
    That's one real benefit to living in Baltimore.  I grew up in Fort Collins, CO which had ONE hospital to cover a few hundred square miles.  One.  Now they have a sister medical facility apparently.  Just looking it up now, I see that they have grown into a medical "hub" that covers more than 50,000 square miles.

    But anyway, imagine my amazement when I moved to Baltimore.  I can walk to 3 hospitals and more are a few minutes away by car.  

    When it came time to choose a primary care physician I was kind of at a loss until one of my new colleagues just recommended that I pick someone affiliated with a Johns Hopkins facility.  There are satellite locations pretty much anywhere I need to be.  


    Parent

    Insurance... (none / 0) (#45)
    by DebFrmHell on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 02:34:41 AM EST
    sigh...the good old days.

    Anyone have experience with Virgin Mobile's (none / 0) (#52)
    by ruffian on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 08:43:59 AM EST
    wireless service? As far as availability, reliability, and so forth.

    They are going to be offering a contract free $30 per month iPhone plan. They only subsidize the cost of the phone for $150, so you would pay more up front, but it seems I would more than make it up in monthly savings.

    I had that plan (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by DebFrmHell on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 12:12:30 PM EST
    but I hated it.  I finally let it expire after a couple of months.  

    The affiliation with Sprint begins and ends with them using their network.

    Customer support wasn't nearly as strong as with Sprint, who I had for a couple of years.  All that automated voice stuff made me   lo_Opy!  And if I got disconnected I had to go thru it all over again.

    I got so frustrated with cells that I actually got a land line and found out (re-found out?) that I enjoy not being connected 24/7/365.  It was hard the first week though.  Like cyber withdrawl.

    Parent

    We each have a cell phone, but (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by Zorba on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 12:58:01 PM EST
    we've always kept our land line.  We live so far up the mountain and out in the boondocks, cell phone service up here is very spotty to non-existent.  I only turn my cell phone on when I go down the mountain far enough to get decent service.  My kids, OTOH, only have cell phones, no land lines.
    Yes, folks, there are places in this country where you still cannot get cell service.  (We were the last area in the county that got cable, for that matter.  With an antenna, we could only get three TV channels, and those, not very well.)  The advantage of living up here, though, is we have a lot of land, and there aren't all that many people.  Or traffic.  Or noise.  
    ;-)

    Parent
    then (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by DebFrmHell on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 02:30:17 PM EST
    I doubt it will work for you.  My aunt lives near a lake in small hills and reception was spotty at best.  And TMobile was useless unless you went on to her balcony and assumed some kind of yoga position while chatting!

    8-)

    Parent

    Oh, man (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by Zorba on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 05:08:01 PM EST
    I know what you're talking about, Deb.  We have many friends and relatives who have visited up here, with many different service providers for their cell phones, and none of them have had good reception.  If people walk all around our place, they may (or may not) get some minimal reception, and they may get some reception, also, if they go upstairs to our attic.  Not exactly optimal.    ;-)    

    Parent
    Where my brother lived in CO, cell phones (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by oculus on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 05:10:10 PM EST
    were useless, including when he fell in winter on his driveway and crushed a vertebrae.  Scary.

    Parent
    Same here (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 11:19:29 PM EST
    not on a mountain, but the side of a ridge in the middle of nowhere-- or as close to it as you can get in New England.  I don't even have a cell phone because coverage around this mountainous state is still way too spotty, and it's rare people can get a signal in my house, so they have to go out and down to the foot of the drive to make a call.  How much use is that in the teeth of a big storm that's killed your landline?


    Parent
    Well, I have a (none / 0) (#142)
    by Zorba on Sat Jun 09, 2012 at 05:35:49 PM EST
    "stupid phone," which works fine when I get off the mountain.  As far as I'm concerned, it is for emergencies, such as if I need to call AAA to have them change a flat tire, or call Mr. Zorba if I'm going to be late getting home, etc.

    Parent
    I see they use the Sprint network (none / 0) (#53)
    by ruffian on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 08:45:32 AM EST
    Hmmmmm...next year might be time to drop ATT.

    Parent
    Is the 30 dollars per month... (none / 0) (#54)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 08:59:44 AM EST
    for unlimited text and data?  

    Parent
    Unlimited data and text, however data usage over (none / 0) (#61)
    by ruffian on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 10:05:16 AM EST
    2.5 gig a month may be throttled to slower speed. That would not affect me - I don't use anywhere near that much a month.

    Parent
    linky goodness (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by ruffian on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 10:06:04 AM EST
    Virgin announcement

    Parent
    No (none / 0) (#59)
    by sj on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 09:57:25 AM EST
    Or at least not yet -- the commercials crack me up.  So apparently TV advertising still works...

    Parent
    An article from PC Mag ... (none / 0) (#77)
    by Yman on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 12:45:38 PM EST
    ... about the $30/month plan.

    Been researching various smartphone plans because I have two teenagers who are dying to get a smartphone, but I couldn't justify the extra $30/month per phone that Verizon charges on top of their already high rates.  This sounds like a good deal for someone who really wants an Iphone over an Android, although $650 for a phone seems a bit pricey.  If anyone's interested in prepaid plans in general, there's a great thread on Howard Forums that compares all the prepaid plans.  My in-laws wanted were paying @ $110/month for their 2 "dumb" phones with Verizon, now they're paying $27/month for plans that include a small data package (for emails, etc.) with Ting.

    Parent

    I'll Have Another out of the Belmont (none / 0) (#67)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 11:20:18 AM EST
    due to a swollen tendon.  Another year without a triple crown winner.

    In footie news, Przez Polskę!

    Total bummer... (none / 0) (#74)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 11:57:01 AM EST
    the sport needs a Triple Crown winner in the worst way.  

    Poles up 1-0 over the Greeks at the half my man!

    I'm hoping the Irish can pull an upset or 3 and advance...or at least beat the garlic eaters.


    Parent

    Game ended (none / 0) (#79)
    by Zorba on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 01:13:04 PM EST
    in a tie.  Better than a loss for Greece.  
    Sorry, kdog, but I have to root for the country of my ancestors.     ;-)

    Parent
    Stupid Greeks (none / 0) (#80)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 01:17:45 PM EST
    with their funny names.  :)

    Parent
    greasy spoon diners (none / 0) (#81)
    by jondee on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 01:20:09 PM EST
    and effin' hifalutin Socratic dialogues..

    Parent
    Excuse me? (5.00 / 3) (#88)
    by Zorba on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 02:02:40 PM EST
    Excuse me???  You have obviously never had my Greek food.  No greasy spoon diner food here.  But lots of fresh vegetables, greens, beans, grains, fish, olive oil, and wonderful (but modest amounts of) meat, prepared with loving care.
    The diner food (and I will admit that many diners are owned by Greeks or Greek-Americans)  give Americans what they want- lots of cheap, greasy food.  It's not what Greeks themselves normally eat.  

    Parent
    Excuse me? (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 03:08:24 PM EST
    Knocking NY Greek Diner food?  How dare you! ;)

    I used to play in a regular poker game with my pal John the Greek...we'd start the night playing friendly $1-2 stakes...then 3 am would roll around and his Greek buddies who all owned or worked at diners would show up with knots of cash you wouldn't believe and wanna play 10-20...always my cue to call it a night;)

    Parent

    Cosmic Diner is my home away from home. (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by oculus on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 04:41:48 PM EST


    Parent
    I love you (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by Zorba on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 07:31:39 PM EST
    dearly, kdog, but you're an "Amerikanos."  Not a Greek.  I've eaten in a lot of diners, and the food is indeed plentiful and cheap.  And tasty, if you like grease.  But sweetie, it ain't all that good for you.  "Come On-a My House," if you want really good food that is both tasty and good for you.
    ;-)

    Parent
    He's not really. But let's have him explaini. (none / 0) (#118)
    by oculus on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 07:42:53 PM EST


    Parent
    I'm with (none / 0) (#114)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 05:50:11 PM EST
    you. I loooove Greek diner food. Never had in NY but I have had it in other places.

    Parent
    You mean (none / 0) (#90)
    by jbindc on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 02:05:19 PM EST
    You don't yell "Opa!" and light something on fire every time you serve dinner?  :)

    Parent
    Nope (none / 0) (#101)
    by Zorba on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 04:36:23 PM EST
    We don't.  You've been watching too many Greek films.   ;-)

    Parent
    Love Greek restaurants (none / 0) (#140)
    by ZtoA on Sat Jun 09, 2012 at 01:16:04 PM EST
    But never really pay attention to the food. Its those Greek waiters who are experts at flirting!

    Parent
    did I mention that that (none / 0) (#106)
    by jondee on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 04:53:52 PM EST
    grease is to die for??

    Sorry Zorba, just a little of the ole tongue-in-cheek. I know Greek food is marvelous.

    Parent

    I bought a couple of delicious, crustless, (5.00 / 1) (#107)
    by oculus on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 04:59:30 PM EST
    individual serving size quiches at Farmers' Mkt. yesterday.  Feeling pretty self righteous, until a man strolled up and asked the merchant to justify his product, starting with:  no oil?

    So before I baked one last night I checked the ingredients, which included half-and-half.  Oh well.  Still good.

    Tonight:  St. Spyridon's Greek Festival.  

    Parent

    Okay, jondee (none / 0) (#113)
    by Zorba on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 05:14:12 PM EST
    You're forgiven.  I will not unleash the power of the "kako mati" (Evil Eye) upon you.    ;-)

    Parent
    Watch it, MileHi (none / 0) (#89)
    by Zorba on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 02:04:13 PM EST
    Lest you become a victim of the Greek Evil Eye.  ;-)

    Parent
    No skin off my back... (none / 0) (#82)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 01:22:47 PM EST
    the Poles are Mile-Hi's ancestral squad.

    But I do expect you to stand with the Irish against the Ities! ;)

    Parent

    how are the Irish (none / 0) (#83)
    by jondee on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 01:27:27 PM EST
    supposed to do anything when they just learned how to push a wheelbarrow correctly a few decades ago? ;-)

    Parent
    kidding of course.. (none / 0) (#86)
    by jondee on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 01:36:02 PM EST
    two magic words for anyone who ever disses Irish soccer: George Best.

    An effing sorcerer on the pitch..

    Parent

    That he was... (none / 0) (#87)
    by kdog on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 01:53:49 PM EST
    Georgie F*ckin' Best!

    Robbie Keane ain't too shabby either.  Unfortunately he's gonna have to score two goals a game for the Irish to have a prayer to advance.

    Parent

    Ughhhhhhhhh (none / 0) (#105)
    by lilburro on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 04:48:07 PM EST
    what did I say, the only thing that I was really worried about was injury.  :(  Sad.

    First they take away "Luck," then they take away I'll Have Another.  Gawd.

    Parent

    Aaannnnddd.... (none / 0) (#91)
    by jbindc on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 02:07:46 PM EST
    More weirdness stemming from the Zimmerman case....

    An Orlando man said he began to receive threatening phone calls at all hours of the day after he got a new cell phone last month. That cell phone number belonged to George Zimmerman, the man accused of second-degree murder for the death of a Miami Gardens teen.

    Junior Alexander Guy, 49, told the Orlando Sentinel he has since moved out of his house and relocated his mother for fear of their safety.



    Claptrap. We all know GZ was overstating (5.00 / 1) (#115)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 05:55:02 PM EST
    the so-called "threats" he was receiving.

    Parent
    Say what???? (5.00 / 0) (#124)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 08:33:49 PM EST
    Did the guy ever think of just turning off the phone and having his number changed????

    And how did the caller know the address? Last time I checked there is no cell phone number directory....

    When we retired and returned to The Land of Our Birth one of the two land line numbers had been a beauty shop's number.

    After a few days I just called Ma Bell and she changed the number.

    Parent

    Mal suerte... (none / 0) (#93)
    by fishcamp on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 02:15:20 PM EST


    I thought it was (none / 0) (#104)
    by Zorba on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 04:43:37 PM EST
    "mala suerte"?  But it's been a long time since I took Spanish (in high school).    ;-)

    Parent
    Lindsey Lohan news: (none / 0) (#103)
    by oculus on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 04:42:49 PM EST
    crashes Porsche into 18-wheeler on Pacific Coast Highway

    Donald, how about an update on your (none / 0) (#109)
    by oculus on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 05:00:44 PM EST
    trip.  Vicarious pleasure.  Thanks.  

    It's been awesome, so far. (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 08:19:15 PM EST
    I like Ho Chi Minh City, especially old Saigon. We're going to the War Remnants Museum this morning, and this afternoon, we're visiting the storied "Tunnels of Cu Chi," although my mother and aunt beeged off this portion of the trip, which requires one to experience the tunnels first-hand and see what the Viet Cong actually went through in order to infiltrate various areas of Saigon.

    Instead, my mother wants to walk the two blocks down Cach Mang Thang 8 Blvd. from our hotel to visit the site where my father was killed in February 1964, and my aunt will accompany her. She wants make this pilgrimage alone, without the rest of us around for understandable reasons, much as I did yesterday.

    The Capital Kinh Do Theatre, a popular gathering place for American personnel in Saigon which was the target of the VC terror bombing, has long since been demolished, and replaced by a hotel. I don't have the capacity to download the photos I took until I return home, so a current photo of the old Kinh Do Theatre site from Panaramio will have to suffice.

    (And you can see in that photo an example of all the wild bundles of overhead wiring I mentioned yesterday. I gotta tell ya, any enterprising persons who can convince the local government about the feasibility and practicality of undergrounding their utility lines probably stands to make themselves a small fortune.)

    It was actually a very private and personal moment, to be able to walk the same ground where my father spent the last few moments of his life on this earth. It's sort of hard to reconcile the present, peaceful hustle and bustle of this area with the sheer chaos and horror that American theatregoers must have felt that night in Feb. 1964.

    But there's now a profound sense of peace in this city that was so obviously lacking in the 1960s and '70s, and it almost goes without saying our country has clearly re-established our presence here in a big way. I think many people would be surprised at the extent of westernization that's occurred in Vietnam, which could lead one to believe that over the long term, maybe we really didn't lose the Vietnam War after all.

    Over two-thirds of all Vietnamese living today were born after the war ended, which you can see simply in the sheer numbers of young people on the streets here. They have no personal memories of the war, they bear no grudges, and thus they have only fellowship and friendship to offer us.

    And in that essence, we've come full circle, and I can accept what happened here without reservation and qualification as a highly unfortunate, but perhaps unavoidable, part of our respective nations' journeys toward mutual reconciliation, and a greater understanding of the utter folly of war.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Our guide in Hanoi assured us the Vietnamese (none / 0) (#135)
    by oculus on Sat Jun 09, 2012 at 01:35:07 AM EST
    bear us no ill will, as they have been afltacked by so many outsiders and they now mostly resent China. Sounds as if your trip has been worthwhile and you have reached a kind of accommodation as to your father's death.  

    ( We did not " do" the tunnels.)

    Parent

    This book, "The Candidate," (none / 0) (#112)
    by oculus on Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 05:11:48 PM EST
    looks interesting.  I plan to go to the bookstore talk.  If he doesn't explain his view of why Hillary Clinton lost, I will ask him!

    link

    Zimmerman Email (none / 0) (#137)
    by whitecap333 on Sat Jun 09, 2012 at 06:23:55 AM EST
    I see that, on the recent Dershowitz / Corey thread, comments that are not strictly on topic are being deleted, so I will ask my question here.  Reference is made in that thread to an email by Zimmerman on the day of the bond hearing mentioning a "reverend."  The assumption seems to be that this might be an unflattering remark about Sharpton or Jackson.  Can anyone flesh this out?  All I can find is something about Zimmerman getting wind of the intent of a certain Koran-burning "pastor" to show up, with his followers, outside the courthouse on the day of the hearing, and requesting him not to do so.

    New diary posted... (none / 0) (#139)
    by jeffinalabama on Sat Jun 09, 2012 at 11:23:13 AM EST
    and I would like your input, please.  I want to do some research and post it here.

    Any comments, even those concerning my ancestry and character, will be appreciated and will receive a reply.

    Pass the word, please, folks... a chance to get involved more in what's going on. I don't have secret sources of information, but I'd like to make an effort at putting a larger picture forward than the specific events we see in Jeralyn's and BTD's posts...sort of what Jeralyn has been doing on the Zimmerman case, but more toward some specific issues that I have time, at present, to examine.

    Thursday Open Thread | 146 comments (146 topical)

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