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Tuesday Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Media
Posted on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 01:14:30 PM EST
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Rick Santorum drops out.

Another busy day. Here's an open thread till we get back.

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    Tuesday Open Thread | 124 comments (124 topical)

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    Santoram pulling out ... (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by Robot Porter on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 01:23:54 PM EST
    of race.

    Zzzzz.

    His wife looks really upset (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 01:28:02 PM EST
    The daughters listen on adoringly, the son's are stoney faced, but the wife looks very upset.  Could it be that she once seriously dated a man who provided abortion services to needy desperate women, and she knows the bubble of the trail is disappearing now and we are all waiting for her in the shadows and this campaign goes down in blogoriffic infamy forever and ever Amen?

    Parent
    Sorry, but I can never forget (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 01:29:42 PM EST
    That she caused her child to be aborted, so that she could save her own life and her children could have a mother....but she fought for the rest of us to not get to have that option.

    Parent
    Santoram isn't even fun to hate ... (5.00 / 0) (#6)
    by Robot Porter on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 01:40:17 PM EST
    he's just sort of dull.  Even when he says things I disgree with. I'm like, yeah, whatever.  And switch over to a Book TV.

    Though I do think one of his son's prefers snails to oysters.  And it would have been kind of fun if that had come out during the campaign.

    Parent

    Robot, so you are saying Santorum is (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by KeysDan on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 01:48:12 PM EST
    kinda Blah?

    Parent
    LOL (none / 0) (#21)
    by ruffian on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 02:00:37 PM EST
    He does make me want to throw up, that's for sure.

    Parent
    I live down here where they all wanted him (5.00 / 2) (#11)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 01:49:31 PM EST
    It was nauseating.  It was like watching the progression of the plague.

    Parent
    The Santorams might make ... (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by Robot Porter on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 01:51:52 PM EST
    a good reality show:

    "Spinning with the Santorams"

    A frothy mix of politics, humor and heartbreak!  

    Next year on Bravo!

    Parent

    I would watch (5.00 / 2) (#14)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 01:52:42 PM EST
    I would....I hate reality TV but I'd watch that :)

    Parent
    See! (none / 0) (#15)
    by Robot Porter on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 01:55:24 PM EST
    Proves my point.  It would reach a whole new demo!

    Parent
    Did GOP women know this? (none / 0) (#42)
    by oculus on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 03:55:09 PM EST


    Parent
    It wasn't spoken of much (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 05:04:52 PM EST
    Some thought it was dirty pool to speak of it.  Okay, the race is over, the Santorum's fought for the rest of womankind and familykind to not get the same considerations during life and death pregnancy situations that they got.  I did watch Santorum speak of it once, he was very unapologetic and wanted every to understand his wife's life was at risk.  Well, yeah, and how does that make your situation more special that that of thousands of other women, wives, and mother's out there that will face a similar thing this year and next year and the year after that?

    Parent
    When Karen Santorum was close to death (none / 0) (#99)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 06:10:33 PM EST
    When Karen Santorum was close to death due to an infection, it is said, the author of the so-called Partial Birth Abortion Ban was party to an induced labor that saved her life -- and which some pro-choicers have called the same as an abortion.

    But this isn't true, at least not so far as the Santorums have described the events of October 1996.

    Of course, without direct access to Karen Santorum's medical files, we have to take their word for what happened, and with only sketchy details.

    But according to a nationally respected obstetrician-gynecologist who has long been active in the reproductive health community and who provides abortion services -- who spoke on condition of anonymity due to not having treated Santorum directly -- by their own account, the Santorums neither induced labor nor terminated the pregnancy.



    Parent
    Spin spin spin for the people (5.00 / 1) (#107)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 07:51:46 PM EST
    who can't handle it. I watched him in an interview where Santorum himself called it a medically induced miscarriage.  Of course this is the internet and President Obama's Birth Certificate has finally really really for reals this time been discovered to be a fake.

    Parent
    Although you are incorrect on this, (none / 0) (#126)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 12:22:13 PM EST
    it does not matter. The Santorums are on the record for supporting abortion when the life of the mother is in danger. She did not, as you wrote, "[fight] for the rest of us to not get to have that option."

    Parent
    And Santorum, along with Paul, (none / 0) (#100)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 06:20:33 PM EST
    And Santorum, along with Paul, signed the Personhood USA pledge which declares opposition to abortion in all cases except when the life of the mother is in danger.

    Even in that instance, the pledge says "every effort should be made to save the baby's life as well; leaving the death of an innocent child as an unintended tragedy rather than an intentional killing."



    Parent
    Hateful though the very thought of (none / 0) (#31)
    by Peter G on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 02:22:20 PM EST
    Santorum is, as a candidate or as a public official (he was once my Senator), he does have a seriously ill, three-year-old daughter, who has been in the hospital twice in recent months.  That would be enough reason for him to pull out, and for his wife to look upset. I just don't feel like bashing him right now.  Good riddance.  "Go home to your wife and your family; sit down by your fireside bright."

    Parent
    While I cannot help but breathe a (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by Anne on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 03:33:59 PM EST
    small sigh of relief that, at least for the moment, Rick Santorum is stepping away from the campaign - and however much I disagree with the Santorums' personal beliefs that they seem to determined to impose on all of us - Karen Santorum's face was the face of a mother struggling mightily with pain, fear and exhaustion, and that I simply cannot bring myself to jeer.  

    Politics and agenda are fair game; parents with a genetically compromised, seriously ill and fragile child, are not.

    Parent

    I just got home with that same face on me (5.00 / 4) (#92)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 05:33:15 PM EST
    It is passing some now.  In six weeks they will take his halo vest off and I'll be right back in that saddle again because they will be fusing parts of his back.  The Santorum's are not my friends, they never have been.  This is my last diary at Dailykos, if you read it you will understand why this family does not get a pass from me.  His daughter is well cared for, for family's less fortunate than his he has fought for them to struggle and their children to die.  I never thought I would care enough about anything Rick Santorum had to say to write a diary about his pathetic ass, but the depth of his hypocrisy and what he put my family through when he was George Dubya Bush's rubber stamper caused me to finally be unable to shut the hell up and pretend like things never were that bad for us at his hands.

    I just got one hell of a "notification" from Tricare in the mail yesterday too about Josh's two surgeries on the 15th and the 25th of March.  ACA made certain procedures undeniable by an insurance company and they said that some procedures for children in need didn't even need their pre-authorization and was at a doctor's discretion.  Joshua's two recent surgeries fit into that category from they said in the letter.  They just wanted me know that they aren't certain about how "legal" all that is, and that I may still be responsible for paying for it at some time.  I wonder what caused them to send that letter out?  It couldn't be because they think the Supremes might throw out the whole ACA could it?  And if the Supremes do, are the insurance companies really going to come after those of us who had procedures done during its Unconstitutional implementation?  I don't have a spare $150,000 laying around here, just a husband that has served his nation in uniform come hell or high water for the past 23 years.  Who do you think Rick Santorum fights for and what do you think he wants to happen with the ACA and the Supremes?  Nope guys.....sorry, the Santorum parents get no pass.....no special consideration on their current parental trials from me.  I'm not a phucking doormat for evil people to wipe their crap filled shoes on, I wasn't raised to be tortured and remain smiling and willing.  I would tell this to their faces too if I got the chance.  I would have consideration for their daughter, which is more than they have had for my son, but for the parents....not only NO but HELL NO!

    Parent

    MT - I just read your diary, and it was quite (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by Angel on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 07:37:38 PM EST
    moving.  I agree with everything you said about Rick Santorum.

    Parent
    I do understand how people who aren't (5.00 / 0) (#108)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 07:57:59 PM EST
    experiencing the horror of some of the things that Santorum championed and champions could miss it all, and it is horrible to talk about and talk about and talk about because it is shameful.  To the families that all this is happening to, we don't talk about it enough because we are so ashamed that our society and culture has thrown us away.  And people like Santorum stand up in front of crowds and argue for what is happening to us to happen and the crowds clap and grow frenzied.  We barely have what it takes to make it through the day, witnessing that take place shames us to our core.  If we stood up and told our story and a bunch of people started arguing right in our faces that our children didn't deserve to live, that would be it for us....we would lose all hope in everything and have nothing left to go on with and our children need us.  So we stay quiet, because we are barely making it as it is.

    Parent
    Sorry, not a working link to my (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 05:38:00 PM EST
    diary, will try again.  We went through Holy Hell though trying to save our son's life.  And our son is mentally able to make a living and survive without us someday.  He can give back.  But they would rather that he died and saved for profit insurance some money.

    Parent
    Agreed. (none / 0) (#46)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 04:06:44 PM EST
    Personally, if he stays out of politics and on the sidelines from this point forward, I'd rather just wish him and his family well, hope that his little girl will be okay, and then ignore him altogether.

    We should heed Richard Nixon's self-reflective musings on what he learned belatedly about hatred through bitter personal experience, which he expressed in his final remarks to White House Staff the day he resigned the presidency on Aug. 9, 1974:

    "Always remember, others may hate you, but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them -- and then you destroy yourself."

    Aloha.

    Parent

    At the risk of sounding uncaring, (none / 0) (#89)
    by KeysDan on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 05:19:43 PM EST
    if not callous, I do not believe that the illness of little Bella was the primal reason for Santorum suspending his campaign. If the polling data in Pennsylvania showed Santorum significantly up rather than down and the prospects for nomination not so dim,  it is my view that he would continue on.

    Since birth, the Santorum's have been suffering the trials and tribulations of a child with Edward's Syndrome and must be  aware of its prognosis--a factor that would likely to  have been taken into account in deciding to enter the  grueling primaries.   Of course, intellectual awareness and emotional preparation at the time of crisis are different.

    However, while still in the race, the Santorum's responded, when  asked, that the child was doing well and not in a life-threatening position.  Perhaps, so as to avoid criticism for staying on in the face of family illness.  

    I have nothing but compassion for the parents of a sick child, but also, nothing but disgust for the candidate's politics and policies.  So, I am not averse to bashing him, on that basis, and, therefore,  join in expressions of good riddance. Not exactly bashing, but not the warm farewell that might be given to a colleague at his or her retirement party either.  

    Parent

    I didn't know about his daughter (none / 0) (#109)
    by ruffian on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 09:05:09 PM EST
    Sorry to hear that.  I hope he concentrates on his family for a while. I'm sure the campaign has been hard on them.

    Parent
    Santorum? (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by KeysDan on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 01:28:42 PM EST
    Who is he anyway.  Guess I better google him.

    Parent
    Santorum pulling out... (5.00 / 4) (#5)
    by kdog on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 01:39:48 PM EST
    there's a birth control joke in there somewhere;)

    Parent
    You always make me laugh (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 01:47:25 PM EST
    Even when I think there is no way I can laugh about some vinegar douche or some microbe, you show up.

    Parent
    It's good medicine... (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by kdog on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 01:55:58 PM EST
    and you've been through the ringer lately...consider it your script from Dr. Feelgood;)

    Parent
    I wrote it that way ... (none / 0) (#7)
    by Robot Porter on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 01:42:13 PM EST
    so all puns, jokes, japes, jibes and amusements could be implied or expanded upon.

    I'm glad you jump into the fray.

    Parent

    Are you a cat? (none / 0) (#9)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 01:48:01 PM EST


    Parent
    Yes ... (5.00 / 2) (#22)
    by Robot Porter on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 02:02:00 PM EST
    Cheshire.

    Parent
    It is nothing but good news to me (none / 0) (#20)
    by ruffian on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 01:59:37 PM EST
    I hope he is gone for good politically this time. He can pontificate on Fox News all he wants.

    Parent
    Yes, I do see a future for (none / 0) (#33)
    by KeysDan on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 02:32:42 PM EST
    Santorum as religious editor at Fox.  But, there is always the chance for a Hail Mary pass, or a Freddy Krueger re-appearance.  And, he did not really quit- technically, he is suspending his campaign, like being in that place formerly known as Limbo.  Jeebus, he claims,  did call him and the scary thought remains that Jeebus may have just put him on hold with sacred Muzak playing and playing.  But, I will take what I can and  will help the faithful take in their Santorum yard signs.

    Parent
    He spoke of the conception (5.00 / 0) (#13)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 01:51:55 PM EST
    of the Declaration of Independence....I think

    He likes the conception of all men created equal though

    Just not women

    Apparently.... (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by magster on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 02:56:41 PM EST
    Hillary likes "Texts from Hillary"

    I liked them, too (none / 0) (#47)
    by sj on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 04:12:13 PM EST


    Parent
    Oh those crazy Arizonans! (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by jbindc on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 08:21:04 AM EST
    Now want to count the gestational age of a fetus from two weeks before conception.

    Link

    Life begins (5.00 / 1) (#124)
    by DFLer on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 11:10:37 AM EST
    at closing time....

    Parent
    The other two bills (none / 0) (#120)
    by sj on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 10:33:01 AM EST
    ...are pretty horrifying, too.

    So it seems this is how you actually begin the decline to dystopia.

    And some people just think it's a plot mechanism.

    Parent

    I wonder if this now means (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by jbindc on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 10:50:10 AM EST
    Someone who is 15 years and 50 weeks old can legally drive, someone who is 17 years, 50 weeks can legally vote and smoke, and someone 20 years, 50 weeks can legally drink?

    Parent
    ha! (none / 0) (#122)
    by sj on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 10:57:29 AM EST
    Thanks for the laugh.

    Parent
    unusual defamation case in Iowa (none / 0) (#16)
    by desmoinesdem on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 01:55:55 PM EST
    A jury awarded an Iowa GOP state senator $231,000 in damages last Friday over a television commercial the Iowa Democratic Party ran in late October 2010. Everyone I've talked to expects the verdict to be overturned on appeal, but get this: the GOP senator himself appealed seeking additional punitive damages. (The judge had told the jury they couldn't award punitive damages.) Not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

    He hasn't decided to endorse though yet (none / 0) (#18)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 01:56:24 PM EST
    Ha Ha!  Maybe that's why his wife is so upset.

    Hey Romney, if you touch that scum with a 10 foot condom on, YOU WILL NEVER WIN WOMEN OUTSIDE OF WHAT YOU CAN CLAIM RIGHT NOW AND WHAT YOU HAVE SUCKS!

    Slightly off topic... (5.00 / 4) (#26)
    by ruffian on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 02:05:05 PM EST
    The funniest thing I have heard in a while is the GOP talking point that Anne Romney is going to save Mitt's chances with women voters. They really think women are just that stupid that a likable wife will offset all the GOP anti-woman policies.

    Parent
    No (none / 0) (#35)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 02:45:44 PM EST
    I think they hoping that people will forget about all their policies not that Anne will override their dislike of the policies.

    You're got to admit though that she's a net positive. That being said first lady only probably matters around the margins.

    As far as policies goes, who the heck knows what Romney is going to do as far as that goes.

    Parent

    Rick Santorum (none / 0) (#19)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 01:57:14 PM EST
    The Czar of White House janitorial needs!

    Parent
    She is upset because the only thing worse (none / 0) (#23)
    by ruffian on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 02:02:34 PM EST
    than being married to Rick Santorum is being married to him when he does not have a job requiring him to be away from home 80% of the time.

    Parent
    Except (none / 0) (#25)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 02:04:27 PM EST
    that I read he made something like a cool million one year for doing nothing after he left the senate.

    Maybe he will try to bless the folks of PA again and run for the senate again!


    Parent

    That would be funny (5.00 / 4) (#28)
    by ruffian on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 02:06:41 PM EST
    since I am sure he is pulling out now to avoid being thoroughly embarrassed in his home state primary. PA to Rick: We are just not into you.

    Parent
    I was wondering (none / 0) (#24)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 02:03:21 PM EST
    if he was going to endorse and who he would endorse. So I guess Mr. Ex Wifes in a Moon Colony with My Sugar Daddy is still in the race???? ROTFLMAO!!

    Parent
    OMG! What're you saying? (none / 0) (#39)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 03:51:46 PM EST
    Militarytracy: "... AND WHAT YOU HAVE SUCKS!"

    Are you trying to telling us that Bay Buchanan and Sharon Day both suck?

    Gosh. Who knew?
    ;-)

    Parent

    From boring to... (none / 0) (#27)
    by christinep on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 02:05:32 PM EST
    More boring?  For awhile, there was a macabre-type comedy in the Republican brouhaha.  Even then, tho, the quality of Boring predominated.  And now, we have the Zzzzzz Mitt Romney & possibly (per rumor) the more Boring Sen. Bob Portman from Ohio as the Boring-est duo since Sen. Bob Dole & what's-his-name ran together.  Here's looking forward to a repeat of that Republican fiasco.

    Education Myths: What Scientist Shortage? (none / 0) (#29)
    by Dadler on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 02:07:34 PM EST
    Enlightening and solid piece in the Columbia Journalism Review about the not-so-sound basis of all those claims that American students just can't get it done in math and the sciences, how there's a shortage of qualified graduates, how we just HAVE to import cheaper temporary visa holding post-docs.  Right. (link)

    And it's too bad Santorum... (none / 0) (#30)
    by Dadler on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 02:20:17 PM EST
    ...didn't turn on and tune in first.  Might've gotten some real religion before dropping out.

    Yawn (none / 0) (#32)
    by jbindc on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 02:24:45 PM EST
    The Republican Party could have saved a whole lot of grief, time, and money by asking me.  I said in 2008 that Romney would be the nominee.

    yea but (5.00 / 3) (#34)
    by CST on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 02:34:38 PM EST
    "The Republican Party could have saved a whole lot of grief, time, and money"

    who wants that :)?

    Parent

    Fair point (none / 0) (#36)
    by jbindc on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 02:52:05 PM EST
    They coulda just paid me a huge salary and STILL come out way ahead.  :)

    Parent
    new business strategy? (none / 0) (#70)
    by CST on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 04:47:09 PM EST
    I'll take all the general election campaign funds from both sides and just pick the next president.

    Who needs megamillions?

    Parent

    Uhrig withdrawing as Zimmerman's attorney. (none / 0) (#40)
    by jpe on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 03:52:00 PM EST
    The two attorneys who have been representing George Zimmerman announced at a press conference moments ago that they are withdrawing as his legal counsel.

    "On Sunday, we lost track of George, in that he would not return our calls," attorney Hal Uhrig said. Said attorney Craig Sonner, "I've lost contact with him at this point."...

    The lawyers said Zimmerman called Sean Hannity of Fox News without consulting with them. He also called the Special Prosecutor in the case, something the attorneys said they'd never have told him to do.


    Baltimore Sun

    I have no sympathy for Zimmerman. (5.00 / 2) (#48)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 04:17:36 PM EST
    What will be, will be. He's hardly the victim here. All he had to do to have avoided all of this, was to stay in his truck that night.

    Parent
    He went rogue on his website (5.00 / 0) (#101)
    by Towanda on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 07:16:01 PM EST
    and guaranteed an ugly moment at any trial ahead, when no prosecutor could miss the opportunity to use Zimmerman's own words there, asking for funds and sympathy because of a "life-altering event."

    The guy is insensitive (okay: stupid) beyond imagining.  The shooting was life-altering for HIM?  Picture the prosecutor:  "Mr. Zimmerman, wouldn't you say that the shooting was life-ENDING for your victim?"

    Parent

    It would also explain his putting... (none / 0) (#43)
    by magster on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 03:56:27 PM EST
    .... images on his website that would have his lawyer ask "what were you thinking?!"

    Parent
    They can't represent him if he doesn't listen to (none / 0) (#44)
    by Angel on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 03:57:27 PM EST
    them or answer their calls.  Maybe he's feeling desperate, like maybe his story is getting picked apart, or maybe he wants them to be more aggressive now with the media and they wouldn't do it.  Interesting.

    Parent
    Lawyers: on a scale of 1-10... (none / 0) (#45)
    by Addison on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 04:01:00 PM EST
    ...how unethical is the behavior by Zimmerman's former lawyers in this afternoon's press conference?

    Parent
    I didn't see the conference (none / 0) (#52)
    by indy in sc on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 04:26:34 PM EST
    but I don't think they did anything wrong.  They made it clear they believe he acted in self defense, but they cannot represent him if he is not contacting them.

    Given the high profile nature of the case, they needed to withdraw publicly otherwise they would continue to receive official communications in the matter, 100s of media requests, etc. as counsel for Zimmerman.

    They did what they had to do with a client who is not cooperating.  Given the undisciplined nature of Zimmerman and his family, writing public letters and speaking to media against the advise of their counsel and not letting counsel know of Zimmerman's whereabouts, I don't think they had a choice.

    Parent

    They discussed his mental state... (5.00 / 2) (#53)
    by Addison on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 04:28:32 PM EST
    ...and location, and his conversations with others, and their impression of many things, all after they publicly withdrew as counsel. It went a bit beyond a simple statement of withdrawal as counsel.

    Parent
    Do you have a link for the press conference? (none / 0) (#54)
    by Angel on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 04:30:29 PM EST
    Thanks.

    Parent
    Only the live feed... (none / 0) (#60)
    by Addison on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 04:38:07 PM EST
    ...and it just ended. It'll be up eventually. Too weird to not be available somewhere.

    Parent
    Hmmm (none / 0) (#57)
    by indy in sc on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 04:35:21 PM EST
    Well if they did all that, then I agree with you that they went beyond the mark.  I think it is o.k. to withdraw and even to do so publicly, but they should have just left it at, "We continue to believe in Mr. Zimmerman's innocence, but we no longer represent him."

    Parent
    Well, they didn't have to ... (5.00 / 2) (#64)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 04:40:55 PM EST
    ... break with him publicly, when a personal letter would have been sufficient.

    I mean, okay, so your client is acting profoundly foolish and not talking to you. I'd like to believe that you still have a duty and responsibility, at the very least, to not do him any further damage even as you seek to withdraw quietly from the case -- emphasis on the word "quietly."

    Sonner and Uhrig are a couple of self-absorbed publicity hounds, as far as I'm concerned.

    Parent

    They couldn't have withdrawn privately (none / 0) (#83)
    by jbindc on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 05:05:38 PM EST
    In this case.  More erroneous information about this case would follow as the medua would keep referring to them as Zimmerman's counsel, their moves and words would be analyzed, and if they truly can't get a hold of him, a letter might not serve as adequate nitice since they don't seem to ne 100% sure where he is.  He WILL be watching TV, though.

    Parent
    It's quite simple, actually. (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 05:53:15 PM EST
    You inform your client in writing of your intention to withdraw as his counsel, effective immediately, and afterward, if or when the media calls you, you curtly inform them:

    "I'm sorry, but as of (effective date), I'm no longer Mr. Zimmerman's attorney, so I cannot speak for him. I wish him well, and trust that things will work out for him. I have no further comment. Thank you. Good-bye."

    And then you leave it at that. It's no longer any of your concern, until the former client's new attorney calls you to get the case files.

    I'm sorry, but I've worked in politics and with attorneys for nearly 25 years, and from my experience, I see absolutely no justification for Sonner and Uhrig to do what they did today. This isn't reality TV, and neither of them had a public obligation to disclose to the media their reasons for withdrawing as Zimmerman's co-counsels.

    In my opinion, it was an Andy Warhol moment -- wholly unnecessary, highly inappropriate and terribly prejudicial to the former client.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    I don't think any of this is accurate... (none / 0) (#97)
    by Addison on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 06:02:22 PM EST
    More erroneous information about this case would follow as the medua would keep referring to them as Zimmerman's counsel

    No. The media would get the message whether through a press release or a short and efficient press conference.

    their moves and words would be analyzed

    If they were worried about that, they didn't show it this afternoon. They added a lot more "words" and "moves" to the storyline by talking at length about his mental state, location, and communications.

    He WILL be watching TV, though.

    How would they know he's watching TV? In any case, a letter, which would be carried by news stations, would have sufficed.

    This is something more. This is reality TV showmanship for reasons unknown.

    Parent

    Speaking as a layperson, I'd give it an 11. (none / 0) (#55)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 04:32:19 PM EST
    Honestly, this self-serving public stunt was completely unnecessary and also highly prejudicial to George Zimmerman, given the present hostile public environment.

    I've already developed a rather low opinion of Craig Sonner, given his previous buffoonish public statements on behalf of his client. This simply confirms my suspicions about him. What an a$$hat!

    A simple letter from Sonner and Hal Uhrig to their client informing him of their withdrawal, cc'd to State's Attorney Angela Corey, would have sufficed. Someone ought to bring this matter up to the Florida Bar Association.

    Parent

    Hal Uhrig (none / 0) (#58)
    by CoralGables on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 04:36:14 PM EST
    is a bit of a TV lawyer becoming well known in the Orlando area during the Casey Anthony trial.

    Parent
    No wonder they quit... (none / 0) (#49)
    by ks on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 04:20:07 PM EST
    The lawyers said Zimmerman called Sean Hannity of Fox News without consulting with them. He also called the Special Prosecutor in the case, something the attorneys said they'd never have told him to do.

    Wow that was dumb of him especially the latter part.  

    Parent

    Apparently (none / 0) (#50)
    by CoralGables on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 04:22:16 PM EST
    based on word from his no longer legal team, Zimmerman has contacted both prosecutor's office and Sean Hannity but won't take calls from his lawyer.

    Parent
    I tell ya, he's feeling desperate. (none / 0) (#51)
    by Angel on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 04:25:23 PM EST


    Parent
    Well, when an organization (none / 0) (#56)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 04:33:18 PM EST
    has put a $10,000 bounty on you and issued a wanted dead or alive poster.... and the Feds AG won't lift a finger to protect you...

    Yeah. That'd concern most people.

    Parent

    Uh huh... (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by ks on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 04:38:42 PM EST
    An "organization", huh?  I'd be hard pressed to think of a less relevant "organization" than the New Black Panther Party.  There are more people posting here than belong to that fringe group and I doubt they could come up with 10Gs if their lives depended on it.  

    Parent
    What you (none / 0) (#65)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 04:42:03 PM EST
    don't realize is that people like Jim are very easily manipulated by fear. He's probably been getting those bogus emails saying that Hillary Clinton defended the black panthers or some such.  These elderly people are afraid of people who have different skin colors, different clothes etc.

    Parent
    But (5.00 / 0) (#63)
    by CoralGables on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 04:40:13 PM EST
    he does have the time to run a website to raise money through a paypal link "for living expenses and legal defense" but not the time to take a call from his lawyer.

    Parent
    Oh, puh-LEEZE! (5.00 / 2) (#74)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 04:51:37 PM EST
    From my perspective, the "New Black Panthers" consists of exactly three members, since they're the only three guys who ever appear in video and photos. Don't overstate things to the point of ludicrousness.

    Parent
    Actually I think you're feeling desperate, too, (5.00 / 0) (#75)
    by Angel on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 04:53:38 PM EST
    based on some of your recent comments.

    Parent
    Source? (none / 0) (#59)
    by Addison on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 04:37:32 PM EST
    Where did the New Black Panthers say they wanted him "dead or alive"? The $10,000 bounty, near as I can tell, is for a citizen's arrest. Stupid and vigilante justice to be sure, it has no place in our society, but I'm curious whether you have sources to back up your claim that it's something prosecutable.

    Parent
    Saw it on TV (none / 0) (#66)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 04:43:17 PM EST
    I'm not an attorney and didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night...

    But I would say offering money to someone to kill someone is illegal.

    Holder should have shut these guys down over their actions in Phil during the election. But he didn't. Now every time they are shown on TV Obama loses votes.

    Parent

    anyone who associates (5.00 / 2) (#69)
    by CST on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 04:45:59 PM EST
    Obama with the New Black Panthers wasn't going to vote for him anyway.

    Give me a break.

    Parent

    Saw it on TV. Ha! What channel? Let me guess... (none / 0) (#72)
    by Addison on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 04:49:01 PM EST
    Where has anyone offered money to kill Zimmerman. I ask you again for a source. Provide the source or stop asserting that, please.

    Parent
    Google (none / 0) (#76)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 04:56:03 PM EST
    it. The conspiracy sites are going wild with this. If you watch the You tube the guy says it's wrong that children are being killed all over the country. Wow, that's really radical I guess.

    Parent
    I have googled it... (none / 0) (#78)
    by Addison on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 04:59:34 PM EST
    ...I can't find what he's talking about.

    Wanted posters (with "alive and unharmed" on it): yes.

    A $10,000 reward for a citizen's arrest: yes.

    Inflammatory rhetoric from the New Black Panthers: yes.

    These things are in essence advocating vigilante justice and I condemn them and the fringe group that is pushing them. But they are not what jimakaPPJ says exists and constitutes an arrestable offense. Maybe such things DO exist. I can't find it yet. I'm asking for his help finding it.

    Parent

    The New Black Panthers (5.00 / 2) (#82)
    by rjarnold on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 05:05:17 PM EST
    sent out "George Zimmerman Dead or Alive" posters.

    http://www.examiner.com/conservative-in-spokane/new-black-panther-party-poster-george-zimmerman-want ed-dead-or-alive

    This is completely seperate from the original Black Panthers who gave a $10,000 bounty for his arrest. It's easy to see how people could have been confused because the media hasn't really cleared it up and most people don't really know much about the New Black Panthers.

    Both the bounty and the dead or alive posters are completely inappropriate.

    Parent

    Do you honestly believe the media wants people (5.00 / 2) (#84)
    by Angel on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 05:07:30 PM EST
    to understand the distinction between the two groups?  I don't.  

    Parent
    I believe much of the media (none / 0) (#86)
    by rjarnold on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 05:11:22 PM EST
    was lazy on the topic as they have been on many of the other details in the story. Both groups acted very inappropriately, though the New Black Panthers were obviously much worse.

    Parent
    The basic WANTED posters are inappropriate too (none / 0) (#85)
    by Addison on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 05:08:00 PM EST
    None of what that group has done has been appropriate. I just wanted jimakaPPJ to source it. Happily, others stepped up and did.

    Parent
    I don't think that's accurate (none / 0) (#87)
    by ks on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 05:13:36 PM EST
    The "orignal Black Panthers" gave a $10,000 bounty for his arrest?  You sure about that?   I don't think so.

    Parent
    I think you might be right (none / 0) (#88)
    by rjarnold on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 05:19:41 PM EST
    All I can find on the $10,000 bounty is one done by the New Black Panthers so I guess they were responsible for both. I might have misread, when I first read about it.

    Parent
    That (none / 0) (#73)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 04:51:32 PM EST
    black panther stuff only works with elderly people. I'm sure it's the same group that thinks that he's not an American citizen. There are a lot of people who will believe anything and that group would never vote for him anyway.  

    Parent
    I just love it when you folks try and (1.00 / 1) (#112)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 08:35:42 AM EST
    make like the NEW Blank Panthers are irrelevant.

    Of course this is the second time Holder has failed to act against this hate group. In fact, he stepped in the first time and shut down the action.

    I can just imagine if some Right wing group did something similar.

    Parent

    I believe most others here (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by CST on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 09:47:44 AM EST
    are covering the important parts, so I'm just gonna cover an unimportant part.

    "Of course this is the second time Holder has failed to act against this hate group. In fact, he stepped in the first time and shut down the action."

    That makes no sense.  If he in fact acted the first time as you state, this isn't the second time he failed to act.  Kind of irrelevant to the gist of the thread, but that was bothering me.

    Parent

    He's talking about a separate ... (none / 0) (#119)
    by Yman on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 09:53:33 AM EST
    ... incident with the NBPP in Philadelphia.

    It's a favorite winger myth.

    Parent

    BTW - You DO know it was the BUSH ... (5.00 / 0) (#118)
    by Yman on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 09:50:43 AM EST
    ... DOJ who decided there was no prosecutable offense by the NBPP the first time around, right?

    From the testimonby of AAG Thomas Perez - Jan. 7, 2009:

    Assistant Attorney General Thomas Perez explained that the Bush administration's Justice Department "determined that the facts did not constitute a prosecutable violation of the criminal statutes".

    Oops, again, Jim!

    Parent

    Baa waa waa (1.00 / 1) (#116)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 09:43:47 AM EST
    I find it hysterical that you would concern yourself about this kind of thign but have no concern about the radical fundamentalism being pushed by the GOP. The radical fundamentalists have actually written legislation and passed legislation but yet you're not concerned about that but you're concerned about five guys who are saying something?

    If you were really as concerned about this whole thing as you CLAIM to be, you should be advocating for the stand your ground laws to be repealed.

    Parent

    What is their federal crime? You've been asked (none / 0) (#114)
    by Angel on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 09:13:59 AM EST
    this question more than once.  What is the federal crime Holder is supposed to act against?  Do tell.  

    Parent
    I just love it when you ... (none / 0) (#115)
    by Yman on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 09:41:54 AM EST
    ... try to pretend that Holder's done something wrong, when in reality you can't cite a single federal statute that's even alleged to be violated.

    Parent
    They are irrelevant... (none / 0) (#123)
    by ks on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 11:07:24 AM EST
    To the people they claim to represent but, they are quite relevant to some conservatives looking for racial bogeymen.

    Parent
    "Dead or alive." (none / 0) (#79)
    by jpe on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 05:02:14 PM EST
    link

    Parent
    Thanks! (none / 0) (#80)
    by Addison on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 05:03:59 PM EST
    Obviously that is terrible. But the "wanted" posters are terrible by themselves as well, too.

    Parent
    From NPR (none / 0) (#90)
    by jbindc on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 05:19:58 PM EST
    Over the weekend, members of the New Black Panther Party showed just how tense the situation in the Trayvon Martin shooting has gotten: They offered a $10,000 bounty for the capture of George Zimmerman, who shot and killed the unarmed teenager.

    The Orlando Sentinel reports that Mikhail Muhammad announced the reward during a protest on Saturday, and when a Sentinel reporter asked if he was inciting violence, Muhammad said, "An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth."

    Link


    Parent

    Oh, man (none / 0) (#91)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 05:32:46 PM EST
    I find that quote an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth so ironic I just can't tell you. Using the Bush doctrine, the Black Panthers would well be justified to find Zimmerman and kill him. So now the Black Panthers about bought into the motto for good ole southern redneck justice. How rich!


    Parent
    Maybe (none / 0) (#62)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 04:38:49 PM EST
    the idiot will use his head before he does something stupid again. Scratch that. I doubt it. The guy has a history of violence. It's kind of ironic that he would be complaining of violence.

    Parent
    An "organization" (none / 0) (#67)
    by shoephone on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 04:44:27 PM EST
    that is the fringe of the fringe of the fringe, that no one but wacko conservatives even know about or care about.

    Yet another attempt at derailing the conversation.

    zzzzz.

    Parent

    Really.. (none / 0) (#77)
    by ks on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 04:57:08 PM EST
    I'd put them in with fringe Black Hebrew Israelite group - The Israelite Church of God in Jesus Christ.  For those of you in NYC, they are the group of black guys dressed in fanciful "religious" costumes that stand on popular street corners and shout Bible verses at passerbys.  Calling them frings is giving them too much credit.    

    Parent
    Zimmerman posts photo ... (none / 0) (#41)
    by Yman on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 03:53:24 PM EST
    ... of the vandalized, OSU Black Cultural Center on his fundraising website.

    That should help matters ...

    He's losing it (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by shoephone on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 05:37:41 PM EST


    Parent
    That's what I think (none / 0) (#104)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 07:41:35 PM EST
    Sounds like he's having a major crack-up.

    Parent
    Sounds like his true color is showing. (none / 0) (#110)
    by observed on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 09:58:20 PM EST


    Parent
    You've done something strange, (none / 0) (#113)
    by kdog on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 08:49:57 AM EST
    in your neighborhood.
    Who ya gonna call?

    Sean Hannity!

    State Attorney assigned,
    and it don't look good.
    Who ya gonna call?

    Sean Hannity!

    Parent

    Gone Rogue? (none / 0) (#95)
    by CoralGables on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 05:41:47 PM EST
    Zimmerman appears to have taken that approach before today.

    From a legal perspective I'd be interested as to whether Jeralyn would drop a client that she has strongly defended here if he called Fox News, set up a website saying the original one by his lawyers and father wasn't valid, and contacted the Special Prosecutor's Office while not returning calls from his legal team.

    I'm wondering about the phone call to the (none / 0) (#98)
    by Angel on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 06:02:44 PM EST
    Special Prosecutor's office and their reaction to it.  

    Parent
    Arkansas (none / 0) (#102)
    by CoralGables on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 07:29:31 PM EST
    fires their football coach, and Gator fans that followed another story concerning Petrino awhile back grin a little realizing that sometimes karma really does bite back.

    Great minds think alike. (none / 0) (#106)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 07:45:41 PM EST
    ;-)

    Parent
    From our "Hogs Gone Wild" file, Part II: (none / 0) (#105)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 07:45:10 PM EST
    To follow up on an item I posted a couple of days ago, it looks as though Bobby Petrino has indded been dismissed as head football coach at the University of Arkansas, after an untimely motorcycle accident led to the embarrassing public disclosure that the 51-year-old married father of four had only one week prior hired his 25-year-old girlfriend as the Razorbacks' student-athlete development coordinator. According to ESPN:

    "Assistant head coach Taver Johnson had been placed in charge of the program while Petrino was on leave and sources told Low that Johnson will remain in charge. The sources said that Long has informed the coaching staff that he would like to keep the assistants in place through the rest of spring practice and then open up the coaching search to see what options are available at this point."

    That's what happens when you dip your own pen in the company inkwell.

    I've been saying for weeks (none / 0) (#125)
    by Chuck0 on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 11:36:46 AM EST
    that Santorum would lose PA. We in PA got rid of his sorry ass. I know of no real support for him where I live and it's fairly conservative around here (Susq. Valley). He got out because he didn't want to endure the embarrassment of losing his "home" state. (He really lives in VA.)

    Tuesday Open Thread | 124 comments (124 topical)

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