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Friday Morning Open Thread

I've got court this morning. Here's an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    what really irks (5.00 / 3) (#37)
    by fishcamp on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 10:33:24 AM EST
    me is if you get popped with one joint or caught doing one line you are labeled a drug abuser and have to go to classes, jump through hoops, get tested and a lot more.  what if that was your one j of the month?  why are you then labeled an abuser?

    Good question (5.00 / 2) (#39)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 10:40:29 AM EST
    When I was younger I tried everything once except heroin.  I figured that if you haven't ever tried it how you can you have an opinion on it?  I took heroin off the try list because heroin users have a really bad track record of longevity.  It just seemed like a bad idea right out of the gate.

    I didn't really like ANY of my drug experiences.  But am I an abuser? Some would say even trying something constitutes abuse if it isn't legal, but there are plenty of legal things out there killing people too...sigh...it isn't black and white

    Parent

    Kabuki Justice (none / 0) (#50)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 12:03:30 PM EST
    I Would Add... (none / 0) (#69)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 01:25:48 PM EST
    ...saying you don't have a problem is a sign that you do.

    Parent
    what (none / 0) (#70)
    by CST on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 01:27:32 PM EST
    are you supposed to say if you actually don't have a problem?

    Parent
    Exactly My Point (none / 0) (#78)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 01:56:48 PM EST
    Catch-22 (none / 0) (#126)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 06:27:49 PM EST
    Dadler (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by fishcamp on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 01:47:22 PM EST
    that is one strange story and I don't even know how to comment on it.  Maybe I'll just smoke my one joint of the month and hope I don't become an abuser in the eyes of we the people...

    Strange is good, I think (none / 0) (#99)
    by Dadler on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 03:27:20 PM EST
    At least in this case.  Obviously some dark sh*t, so thanks for sticking with it.  What can I say, sometimes you go where the ugliness takes you.  Glad to be back home though.  ;-)

    Parent
    I think strange is good too (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by shoephone on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 03:29:38 PM EST
    I remember when I first read TC Boyle back in the late 80's and thought, "Man, this guy gets strange!" But I loved his stuff. Still do. The worst thing a writer be is boring.

    Parent
    Did u read the story fishcamp is talking about? (none / 0) (#108)
    by Dadler on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 03:52:11 PM EST
    Dadler, it's excellent (5.00 / 1) (#120)
    by shoephone on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 05:45:14 PM EST
    Really tightly-crafted, it flows well, and the narrative voice is so strong. And I say that as someone who would normally be very creeped out by the subject matter!

    My only question is this: In the section about the old woman, where she comes back to him in the dream, you write that her eyes were "angry and forgiving at the same time." Not sure if they could be both at once... I think I get what you meant (that she was still resolute and righteous in her soul, as she had been just before her death, but that she didn't blame him for her death?)

    Anyway, good job. It also struck me that this story is in a very different voice and style than I've read from you before, and I know that's often hard to pull off.

    Parent

    Thanks for the read (none / 0) (#148)
    by Dadler on Sun Mar 11, 2012 at 02:28:46 PM EST
    And the comments.  I wanted her eyes to be angry and forgiving like they would be for a toddler, but I didn't want him to really know that.  Might now play very well as is, so thanks for the note, balancing the narrator's voice with literary necessities isn't always a walk in the park.  At least for me.  Peace.

    Parent
    also, i think it's kind of a companion piece... (none / 0) (#149)
    by Dadler on Sun Mar 11, 2012 at 02:41:04 PM EST
    Dear Talkleft commenters: (5.00 / 4) (#115)
    by oculus on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 04:50:02 PM EST
    Reading this thread makes me seriously wonder how any of you survived to adulthood.  

    Yeah, me and Coleridge (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by ZtoA on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 11:22:27 PM EST
    When in my teens I (unknowingly) had some hash laced with opium. I fainted (sounds so much better than passed out) on a beautiful thick white carpet at a well-to-do friend of a friend's place. While out, I had a dream. It was epic. Truly epic and beautiful and terrible. But when I woke it slipped away like Euridice slipping away from Orpheus' reach leaving the underworld. That annoyed me to no end. I never wanted to have such an amazing  vision slip away so easily again. And I wondered if one had to be so very powerless to hold onto it to actually harness and even have artistic inspiration visit. .....Not into drugs, but the jury is still out about the rest.

    Parent
    Clinical psychiatrist (none / 0) (#119)
    by Edger on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 05:28:09 PM EST
    Dr. Stanislav Grof about his LSD experience (youtube)
    Stan Grof, M.D., Ph.D. is a psychiatrist with more than fifty years experience researching the healing and transformative potential of non-ordinary states of consciousness. His groundbreaking theories influenced the integration of Western science with his brilliant mapping of the transpersonal dimension. On October 5, 2007 Dr. Grof received the prestigious VISION 97 award granted by the Foundation of Dagmar and Vaclav Havel in Prague.

    He is one of the founders and chief theoreticians of Transpersonal Psychology and received an Honorary Award for major contributions to and development of the field of Transpersonal Psychology from the Association for Transpersonal Psychology in 1993.

    stanislavgrof.com/articles.htm

    more about Grof here...

    Parent

    Hey, (none / 0) (#128)
    by sj on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 07:08:07 PM EST
    I think you're a parent, right?  Didn't you ever wonder how any child made it to adulthood?

    Parent
    Yep. (5.00 / 1) (#134)
    by oculus on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 10:06:01 PM EST
    Eh? (none / 0) (#130)
    by Edger on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 07:22:07 PM EST
    Have you noticed what the "adults" have been doing to this planet lately?

    Parent
    Probably why (none / 0) (#139)
    by Amiss on Sat Mar 10, 2012 at 04:19:17 AM EST
    Everything I have read in any depth shows that those that hone their craft suffer from such depression.

    Parent
    Rush down to PSAs (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by Yman on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 05:00:44 PM EST
    On March 8, WABC's online feed aired Rush Limbaugh's radio show almost exclusively with unpaid public service announcements and included significant amounts of dead air space, as only nine paid advertisements were broadcast during three hours of programming.

    In the week since Limbaugh came under widespread condemnation for his misogynistic attacks on a Georgetown University law school student, at least 50 advertisers have canceled ads running during his program.

    Link.

    What a shame.

    Oh, yes, (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by Zorba on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 06:11:33 PM EST
    I'm really shedding tears for Rush.  Crocodile tears, that is.   ;-)

    Parent
    Well this is pretty far out (none / 0) (#1)
    by Edger on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 05:58:25 AM EST
    Neuroscientists Teri Krebs and Pål-Ørjan Johansen at the Norwegian University of Science and Technology have been reviewing previous LSD research - specifically six different studies on LSD as a treatment for alcoholism that they considered scientifically sound that were conducted in the U.S. or Canada in the late 1960's - and are calling for renewed research...

    After being given the substance, the participants were encouraged to reflect on their alcohol problem. Neither the participants nor the researchers knew who got what substance -- a procedure known as a double-blind.

    "In independent and standardized follow-up examinations, ranging from one to twelve months later, all of the studies showed that the patients who had received a full dose of LSD fared the best," Krebs and Johansen noted. "On average, 59 per cent of full-dose patients showed a clear improvement compared with 38 per cent in the other groups."

    "When we combine studies that had sound methodology, the results are unambiguous. We can therefore safely conclude that a single dose of LSD had a positive treatment effect that lasted at least six months", Krebs and Johansen said.

    Also a commonly prescribed drug - Propranolol - used to treat high blood pressure may have the unintended benefit of muting racist thoughts in those who take it, a new Oxford University research study has found.

    Damm subversive hippies - always wrecking people's comfort zones.

    What's the world coming to? Whatever happened to the freedom to turn yourself into an obnoxious falling down drunk and hate people?

    I've concluded (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by kdog on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 08:05:21 AM EST
    through my experiments that LSD makes beer taste really really good, and you can drink a freakin' twelve pack and not be the least bit drunk.

    Parent
    But you can see the devil :) (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 08:29:33 AM EST
    Is that who that was? (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by kdog on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 08:46:06 AM EST
    I thought it was god;)

    Parent
    You saw god? Man, I never (5.00 / 3) (#13)
    by caseyOR on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 08:49:01 AM EST
    saw god. Not even once. Saw lots of other things whilst tripping, but never any celestial beings.  Maybe god doesn't appear to heathens.

    Parent
    Not really... (5.00 / 2) (#14)
    by kdog on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 08:57:56 AM EST
    more like a feeling of a presence of a higher power...if I had to pick a "deity name" for it, it would be Mother Nature.

    One trippin' moment I'll never forget is climbing a tree and I could feel it breathing...if that makes any sense.

    I never really hallucinated anything out of whole cloth like in the movies...just trails and sparkles and auras, that kinda visuals.

    Parent

    I always felt a very heightened (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by caseyOR on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 09:02:36 AM EST
    awareness of everything around me, the air, the ground, the water flowing in the river, everybody's breathing.  And alert. I was always very alert.  

    One 4th of July, while indulging, I did see American flags coming at me from everywhere, even in the dark.  

    Parent

    That was shrooms (for me) (5.00 / 3) (#23)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 09:19:06 AM EST
    and suddenly I was convinced I could cook.  My food was delicious :)

    Parent
    you could eat food (none / 0) (#65)
    by CST on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 01:07:03 PM EST
    after that?

    My big thing was no doing anything that I couldn't take one look at and know exactly what it was.  Which meant no liquid/ tabs/ pills/ powder, besides booze of course because that comes sealed and with a label.  Guess which category shrooms fell in :)

    Until my stomach completely revolted.

    Parent

    A fantastic voyage... (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by kdog on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 01:28:12 PM EST
    is a worth a little turbulence on takeoff.

    Cooking in that state is a bit bold for my taste, but I highly recommend fresh fruit.  I remember feasting on grapes one time and marveling at their flavor awesomeness, then a side-splitting laughing fit while trying to continue devouring them.  Hysterically good grapes.

    Parent

    Funny how people have different responses (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 03:15:04 PM EST
    to things.  I would have herded you right up and served you some food, whether you wanted it or not :)  You love me

    Parent
    there is no next time (none / 0) (#74)
    by CST on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 01:46:29 PM EST
    My body made that message loud and clear the last time.  I certainly don't regret it, and I've been on some wonderful journeys.  It's just past time I let it go.  I also learned what I came to learn, so I don't feel like I'm missing out by moving on.  The first time was a life-altering experience.  The last time was fun until it wasn't.

    Parent
    To each their own.... (none / 0) (#79)
    by kdog on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 02:03:09 PM EST
    its certainly not for everybody, or for everybody forever.

    I spent one voyage talking a girl off the proverbial ledge for 6 hours, her first time/last time/shoulda never had a first time...hysterical crying, extreme fear...not fun.  

    Parent

    been there (5.00 / 1) (#113)
    by CST on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 04:33:45 PM EST
    the one talking the friend down that is.  Definitely not for everyone.

    I actually liked the loner aspect to it.  I wouldn't run away from the people I was with, in fact I've had some epic conversations, but when you all run away to the woods together that's part of it.  There are few places I'd rather be than wandering through nature.  And it was usually just a more intense version of that.  It was never a "party" thing to me though.  More of  a "return to nature wearing fun hats and rolling down hills" thing.  Of everything I've tried I'd say that's the one that fits my personality the best.  Except for the whole stomach thing.

    There's always been something very appealing to me with the whole "into the Wild" thing and that taps into that side of the brain.

    On that note, I'm driving up to canada for some good clean fun skiing on closed woods trails :)  Even when I'm having good clean fun I like to break the rules a bit.  Have a good weekend everyone!

    Parent

    Well, it was 4:00 am New Years Day (none / 0) (#84)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 02:21:27 PM EST
    I had not slept all night because I was full of fantastic thoughts and ideas, sort of like a skinny Newt.

    So I was very hungry, and I wanted all my friends to share my joy with me too as well as my appetite.  Life was gorgeous and the sun would rise soon.....I think I did manage to pass out when that really happened though.  Everyone had partied horribly, and I would not stop ringing their phones.  After a bit I was even called a few unfriendly names, but I know in their hearts they meant none of those.  They loved me, they weren't aware of it yet but it was a fact.  And breakfast was so amazing.  I ate a lot of shrooms at about six o'clock the night before.  They were just these bitty little things.  I remember when I took a little extra and one guy whooped, "Oh Boy!"  Indeed

    Parent

    But did you stare into the mirror (5.00 / 5) (#38)
    by Dr Molly on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 10:38:45 AM EST
    for about 3 hours?

    LOL, those were the days...

    Parent

    when i did (5.00 / 5) (#53)
    by The Addams Family on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 12:27:17 PM EST
    i thought i looked like a drag queen . . .

    Parent
    When the devil is standing behind (5.00 / 3) (#21)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 09:14:21 AM EST
    your best friend, you can tell he is around 14 feet tall.  But he looks drawn, strangely like a cartoon :)

    Parent
    That was Tricky Dick, wasn't it? (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by Edger on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 09:29:56 AM EST
    Or Ronnie Raygun?

    Parent
    We wish those guys were cartoons (5.00 / 3) (#26)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 09:38:11 AM EST
    There is actual historic evidence they really existed in some physical form, even if most of their best ideas could not.

    Parent
    I never saw the devil, but (5.00 / 3) (#19)
    by Edger on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 09:11:49 AM EST
    I did look down one day while tripping down the street in 1970, and to my surprise found myself looking at the top of my head and seeing myself tripping down the street. Both of us started laughing. ;-)

    Parent
    Wow... (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 09:13:00 AM EST
    My words exactly ;-) (none / 0) (#22)
    by Edger on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 09:14:45 AM EST
    followed by "...man, Far out."

    Parent
    Heh (none / 0) (#7)
    by Edger on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 08:09:37 AM EST
    And are you an alcoholic now?

    Parent
    Nope... (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by kdog on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 08:44:53 AM EST
    its in my genes, but thankfully I don't have the stomach to be an alkie.  

    I'd love to credit the mind expansion, but its my weak stomach that saves me from the scourge of that addiction...and willpower, and the fact its not my favorite drug, not even top 3;)

    Parent

    precisely (none / 0) (#54)
    by The Addams Family on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 12:29:18 PM EST
    weed saved me from the ravages of drink

    Parent
    related story (none / 0) (#62)
    by smott on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 01:02:56 PM EST
    A beloved relative of mine has been doing weed (unbenknownst to his parents) and over the holidays was slipped some weed laced w PCP. He proceeded to have a 36hr trip that ended up in ER, and then an in-pat psych ward for about 3 weeks.
    He is out pat now and still in therapy for panic-attcks and related PTSD....making progress TG.
    But he has had to drop out of university.

    So be careful y'all.


    Parent

    Angel Dust... (none / 0) (#72)
    by kdog on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 01:41:51 PM EST
    is an awful drug...tried it once and never again.  I have no clue what anybody sees in it...it is truly evil.

    Dosing people without their knowledge is so wrong.  Hope your relative gets their sh*t back together...sounds like an extreme reaction.  

    Parent

    Cocaine... (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by kdog on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 03:29:31 PM EST
    is one I don't get the allure of at all...maybe it was overly cut weak sh*t but it did nothing for me a couple cups of coffee couldn't do, without the annoying post nasal-drip.

    I think it's because I'm a naturally "up" person, I like the mellowing agents the best.  I would love to try chewing on some coca leaves though, that'll have to wait till I crash at 'Bama Jeffs in Colombia.

    It's why I won't try heroin...I think I'd really really like it, and I have an addictive personality.  Savin' that one for if I make it to Social Security.

    Parent

    I believe so.... (none / 0) (#80)
    by smott on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 02:07:07 PM EST
    He had a similar thing back in Oct and did not learn his lesson.  

    But I think he's gonna be off weed/anything and also sober (not that he's a drinker, he's just not goin near ANYTHING) now, for the rest of his life.

    He has improved greatly the last few days, so here's hoping that continues.

    But it has derailed his whole life at the moment, and TG his parents have lotsa $$ and good health insurance....

    Parent

    Sounds like a smart move... (none / 0) (#83)
    by kdog on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 02:18:08 PM EST
    the same substance rarely has the same effect on two people....everybody is different.

    Sometimes I think I'd be in the mental hospital if it wasn't for reefer.  I tend to think too much, and I was a serious Nervous Norman as a youth...it was love at first toke.

    Parent

    thanks kdog and Donald (5.00 / 1) (#107)
    by smott on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 03:51:34 PM EST
    For your empathy!

    I was at the Atlanta airport Tues exhausted waiting for my flight...he called me all happy, had a bit of an epiphany at the therapists....decided "not to fight" his anxiety and just let it go....and sounded much more like himself....finally.SO glad I said I wanted to hug him thru the phone!...

    It lifted me up all the way  on the flight back home!


    Parent

    Interesting study on LSD. (5.00 / 2) (#9)
    by caseyOR on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 08:13:20 AM EST
    For myself, well, I did not start drinking until I had put my acid-loving days behind me.  

    Parent
    You took your first trip... (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by kdog on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 09:03:26 AM EST
    before your first drink?  or just before you started drinking seriously?

    Parent
    Years before my first drink. (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by caseyOR on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 09:11:13 AM EST
    I didn't start imbibing of the demon rum until my mid-twenties. Started with the other in high school.

    I was raised in a violent alcoholic home. And there is a generations long history of alcoholism in my father's family. So, I was very wary of alcohol. Even when I did start drinking, I was, and remain, a judicious drinker. I got sleeping-on-the-bathroom-floor-to-be-near-the-toilet drunk once on tequila. Still cannot abide the smell of tequila. I decided the whole drunk as a skunk experience had no redeeming qualities.

    I don't drink a lot. So I can afford a better quality of wine, beer, bourbon, whatever. Because I am just too old for rotgut.

    Parent

    We're a pair Cap'n... (5.00 / 3) (#25)
    by kdog on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 09:32:50 AM EST
    I thought I was different for having smoked a joint a year before ever smoking a cig.  So much for the gateway theory for us, we reversed conventional wisdom, worked or way back to the more socially accepted drugs.  

    My pops was an alcoholic, though non-violent...it does make you wary and careful with demon booze, knowing first hand at an early age what it does.  

    I too don't really enjoy the feeling of sloppy drunk, makes ya feel like sh*t, and sh*ttier still the next morning.  A nice buzz is quite lovely, I still make the rookie mistake of going overboard, takes but one sip to fall over the fine line from beautiful buzz to yucky drunk.

    Parent

    Used to have a friend like that (none / 0) (#136)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 10:49:16 PM EST
    You could be talking to him and watch him very distinctly slide right in front of your eyes over that line from happy to seriously drunk as a skunk.  He was an alcoholic, we figured out eventually.  But we saw it happen often enough that "Going over the XXname line" became our common term for somebody getting plastered.


    Parent
    oh the memories (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by The Addams Family on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 12:44:06 PM EST
    the tequila memories

    at a costume party in 1973, i was dressed as an Ursuline nun (a pregnant one) & gravitated toward a Franciscan sister in the kitchen

    we had both heard about the "salt-lime-tequila" sequence but could not remember the order - thus ensued much experimentation by two young nuns who had never imbibed tequila before

    around 3 a.m., as the party was ending, members of the after-party contingent got the munchies & we all headed out in a tiny Datsun to Jack-in-the-Box: an Egyptian prince, Cleopatra, two nuns, and the Roman Catholic priest presumed to be the father of the unborn nunchild

    the ride did not agree at all with the drunken nuns, & when the party arrived at Jack-in-the Box we quickly left the car & repaired to a corner of the parking lot

    alert patrons waiting in line to give Jack their orders may have spotted the two twisted sisters rolling & hurling in the trash-strewn gravel

    i have not touched tequila since that night

    Parent

    Sounds like an epic party... (5.00 / 2) (#90)
    by kdog on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 02:58:15 PM EST
    these days somebodies cell phone pics of you would be all over the internet...or worse, your Mother Superior mugshot all over the internet.

    My moms is so right...she always says I was born a generation too late, I woulda fit in a lot better with you guys in the late 60's early 70's...always a day late and a nickel short.  If only Doc Brown was around.

    Parent

    Somerthing Similiar (none / 0) (#29)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 10:00:27 AM EST
    When I a mischievous/delinquent youth I took a lot more then the recommended dose and really did some self-reflection, not on purpose you see, but sometimes that is just the case.

    Anyways, out of nowhere I just started thinking about what I was doing and where it was going, which was nowhere.  And it let me explore my options at a much deeper and more realistic level.

    Now keep in mind this was done at like 3-8am at a huge house party after a Grateful Dead concert, it wasn't some transcendental movement, but it was a moment of clarity.

    And soon after I joined the military which I hated but it cleaned me up for college.

    The problem of course is like the comments, their is this perceived notion of what it is, and those perception will invariable work their way into your mind.  So if you think it's the devil or that you are going to see things that are there you probably aren't going to cure your addition, may even make it worse.
    _______

    No need for a double blind study, in an hour there will be no mistake who has not been given a placebo.

    Parent

    I just can't picture you... (none / 0) (#31)
    by kdog on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 10:16:30 AM EST
    in the military at all Scott...makes sense that you hated it.  How did you ever make it through a full sentence with that free questioning open mind of yours?  Musta been a struggle.

    Parent
    Actaully (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 11:50:32 AM EST
    ...the military is so rigid, it was easy to exploit.  A lot of it is just show, know when to walk the line and you get by.  Like high-school, some cool teachers, some d1cks, and a lot of BS rules.

    For me it was a means to an end, college.

    You can't keep a good man/woman down.

    Parent

    As long as Uncle Sam... (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by kdog on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 12:52:25 PM EST
    doesn't start a war, it was a great way to pay for college.  

    I wouldn't suggest it to any kid now...they'll probably end up in Iran, machine gun in hand.

    Parent

    Trust Me (none / 0) (#73)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 01:45:52 PM EST
    I know exactly where I was standing when Bush I came on TV and said we were going to war with Iraq.

    I was in the Navy standing with a bunch of Marines, and it was right before xmas.  It was all abstract, something you read about and train for, but nothing preparers you for it.

    My involvement amounted to our ship 'rebuilding' afterwards.  Tons of media and I think we rebuilt a school or two and a church, all for the cameras.  But it got me Veteran status, which after I got out meant a great deal, Wisconsin paid all my school costs, and the GI Bill cash was all mine, $400/mth.

    But you do get paid at the time I think $80/mth extra, because of the war, and no income taxes.  Plus they give you a zillion medals just because you were in at the time.

    Can you see me with a box of metals, dumb, but good stuff for the resume.

    Parent

    Hey, Jeralyn... (none / 0) (#2)
    by Dr Molly on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 06:20:52 AM EST
    Have you seen that Gloria Allred is thinking about going after Rush Limbaugh?

    Thought you might enjoy that...

    Misdemeanor? (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by smott on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 07:06:04 AM EST
    In a letter to County Attorney Denise Nieman in West Palm Beach, Fla., dated March 8, Allred says Limbaugh may have violated a misdemeanor statute against defamation.

    "Mr. Limbaugh has publicly acknowledged that his reference to Ms. Fluke as a 'slut' and a 'prostitute' were baseless and false," Allred wrote.

    Allred said Nieman's office should "open an investigation into whether or not Mr. Rush Limbaugh is in violation of Section 836.04 of Florida statutes."

    The statute, according to Allred, reads: "Whoever speaks of and concerning any woman, married or unmarried, falsely and maliciously imputing to her a want of chastity shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree."

    Parent

    Used to edit (none / 0) (#140)
    by Amiss on Sat Mar 10, 2012 at 04:48:00 AM EST
    for a "Code" co. Believe me every town, city, and state all have some doozies on their books that "may" have applied at the time.

    Parent
    Had to google that (none / 0) (#4)
    by Yman on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 07:04:57 AM EST
    I assumed you were talking about a civil suit.  Looks like she wants them to pursue criminal (misdemeanor) charges of defamation.

    Parent
    Leave it to Allred... (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by kdog on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 10:20:22 AM EST
    to make me defend Rush F*ckin' Limbaugh...if his being an insensitive a-hole verbal bully is a crime I give up...I really do.

    One nation under arrest...no one can save us now.

    Parent

    Right... (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 11:57:52 AM EST
    ...and no offense but being called something by Limbaugh is something to be worn as badge of honor IMO.

    But then again, it was probably a Rush fan that pushed the ridiculous law.  Would be funny to see an obvious right wing hack law used to prosecute a right wing hack.

    Parent

    It sounds like one of those... (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by kdog on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 12:45:16 PM EST
    bullsh*t laws that shoulda been repealed decades ago, certainly one that pre-dates the feminist movement...

    "Whoever speaks of and concerning any woman, married or unmarried, falsely and maliciously imputing to her a want of chastity shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree."

    A want a chastity?  WTF century are we in?

    Parent

    Florida (none / 0) (#76)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 01:56:17 PM EST
    I remember some cities outlawed thongs and then baggy pants/shorts.  And yet the state is screwed up with all those fine moral laws.

    A fist degree misdemeanor is no joke, one step short of a felony.  Allred should be concerning herself with the law itself, chastity, and give Rush enough rope to...

    Parent

    Indeed... (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by kdog on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 02:26:35 PM EST
    that is one offensive sexist law.

    One step from forcing unwed women to wear chastity belts to "protect them".

    Parent

    Conscience demands it my brother... (none / 0) (#116)
    by kdog on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 04:51:44 PM EST
    anybody advocating for hanging Rush using that 1883 statute (ty, btw;) is stooping lower than Limbaugh...and I don't need to tell you that that is really f*ckin' low. It is a law we would mercilessly ridicule any other day.

    Allred should make very clear she is doing this on her own, for Ms. Fluke's sake.  Lest Allred sully her good name where Limbaugh failed.

    Parent

    That's a slander to (5.00 / 1) (#137)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 10:54:08 PM EST
    narwhals, which are magnificent creatures.

    Parent
    Rush (none / 0) (#131)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 08:55:53 PM EST
    Is in the clear legally I think.  As he should be.

    Now as to appropriateness . . .

    Parent

    Exactly... (none / 0) (#147)
    by kdog on Sat Mar 10, 2012 at 10:47:44 AM EST
    forget Rush, I always worry when somebody starts digging through 100 year old criminal statutes to find an obscure legal weapon...thats not good for our country nor our liberty.

    Parent
    Shooting in Pittsburgh (none / 0) (#3)
    by smott on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 06:59:07 AM EST
    Western Psych Institute.  2 dead including gunman, 7 wounded.

    Lobby unsecured apparently.

    http://www.wpxi.com/news/news/local/2-shot-western-psychiatric-institute-swat-team-res/nLN2Q/

    We had a dbl, here this week as well (none / 0) (#141)
    by Amiss on Sat Mar 10, 2012 at 04:58:24 AM EST
    Disgruntled recently fired very young spanish teacher walked into peivate Episcopal School's Headmistress office, blew her head off then shot himself.

    So, I guess private, religious school is no better than public school as far as violence goes.

    Parent

    Arizona at it again... (none / 0) (#8)
    by kdog on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 08:13:16 AM EST
    In their apparent never-ending quest to become the most fascist state in the union, Arizona wants pee-pee from the unemployed seeking unemployment benefits before they will fork over the measley 200 bucks and change they pay a week.

    Insult to injury, the citizen seeking benefits has to pay for the test! I sh&t you not.

    No word yet on which Arizona officials behind this have invested in drug testing labs.

    The most recent extension of (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Anne on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 08:59:37 AM EST
    the payroll tax cut and unemployment benefits guaranteed states the right to drug test people seeking unemployment, so you know that there is going to be more of this - mostly, I would guess, in states under Republican control.

    I'm not so sure this is about making money on drug testing as it is about making sure that only people who "deserve" the benefits are able to get it - and (snark/sarcasm alert) anyone who can afford to take drugs doesn't really need a government handout that would just make it easier for the drug use to continue, right?  And then there's the theory that  anyone who's taking drugs is probably unemployable which means long-term commitment to paying benefits - which cash-strapped states cannot afford to do; it will be a budgetary issue - which seems to be the latest reason for everything.

    My guess is the same states that want to require people to prove their immigration status will also want to drug test those applying for unemployment benefits.

    Parent

    I hear ya.... (none / 0) (#27)
    by kdog on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 09:43:01 AM EST
    its gonna get ugly and uglier...for the life of me I don't understand why people want to live in such a place, where ya gotta hand in a urine sample and a stack of papers to do any damn thing.  

    Dystopia is the word for it.

    Parent

    Drink up, Johnny (none / 0) (#28)
    by Dadler on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 09:53:24 AM EST
    It's the patriotic American drug, hell even the Pilgrims loved their suds.  Get with it.

    Parent
    It's funny actually... (none / 0) (#30)
    by kdog on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 10:11:49 AM EST
    I wos wondering what heppens to the benefits of those who show up at the unemployment office drunk...I'm guessing there is no problem with that, but if ya smoked a spliff at a bbq two weeks ago you're f*cked unless ya stop at GNC first for the elixir, and spend more money you don't have.

    Failing a drug test doesn't prove that you bought any drugs, ya might just have good friends who share.  It doesn't prove you have a drug problem.  It doesn't prove your vices have any effect on your job search.  The more ya think about it the stupider it gets, but that's the wars on drugs and compassion and charity for ya.

    Parent

    Failing a drug test these days... (none / 0) (#32)
    by Dadler on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 10:17:13 AM EST
    ...probably means you bought the wrong detox flush from the head shop.

    Wonder what would happen if a recipient started a micro-brew business out of his garage?  They'd probably encourage his entrepreneurial spirit.  

    The stoopid multiplies like rabbits.

    Parent

    then again, more likely (none / 0) (#33)
    by Dadler on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 10:17:54 AM EST
    the health department would come and shut his brew biz down.

    Parent
    Yes they would... (none / 0) (#35)
    by kdog on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 10:21:59 AM EST
    until the proper papers were filed and the vig was paid.

    Parent
    Well, obviously (none / 0) (#36)
    by Edger on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 10:26:39 AM EST
    the only people who should qualify for unemployment benefits would be those who don't qualify because of the size of their bank balances.

    IOW, only "real" people. WASP's who wear 2000 dollar suits and ride in the backseat of their own cars.

    No deadbeats or grifters or people with tans or funny accents....

    Only "job creators".

    slash snark

    Parent

    It's not a law yet (none / 0) (#52)
    by jbindc on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 12:26:11 PM EST
    The state Senate passed it.  Still has to go through the House and to the governor.

    Parent
    Jackboot Brewer's... (none / 0) (#59)
    by kdog on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 12:46:46 PM EST
    mouth is watering waiting to sign this puppy.

    Parent
    Unconstitutional (none / 0) (#114)
    by Peter G on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 04:39:01 PM EST
    under Supreme Court's drug-testing precedent interpreting the Fourth Amendment, imho.  Another fine opportunity for the ACLU to win an easy lawsuit and some attorneys' fees to support their program, in any state that does this.

    Parent
    One More for Arizona (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 03:28:26 PM EST
    Earlier this week, the Arizona Senate approved a bill that would shield doctors from "wrongful birth" lawsuits.

    These are lawsuits that could happen if doctors don't inform pregnant women of prenatal problems that might lead women to decide to have an abortion. So the bill would protect doctors who choose to withhold this medical information.

    Doctors would not be liable for complications after birth for failing to fully reveal information about the health of a fetus.

    LINK

    What's truly insane, at the bottom of the article it mentions that 9 other states already have these laws on the books.

    Doctors are allowed to lie without recourse to pregnant women.

    Parent

    Rick Scott (none / 0) (#142)
    by Amiss on Sat Mar 10, 2012 at 05:00:33 AM EST
    wanted to do that to welfare recipients too LOL. He is just such a wealth for a Fla. comedian, if one desired to be one.

    Parent
    No thoughts on jobs? (none / 0) (#40)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 10:41:50 AM EST
    "I can't remember the last time there was this much excitement and anticipation surrounding a payrolls number -- and it's another solid report. There were 227,000 new jobs created in March, and the already-excellent numbers from the previous two months being revised upwards: the figure for last month is now officially 284,000, a truly excellent number. . . . At this point, if we have a weak month between now and the election, it's going to be the bad figure which looks like an aberration: only a sequence of two or three consecutive weak payrolls reports will really convince economists and the market that the recovery is going off the rails. It's taken far too long to get here, but we're finally moving in exactly the right direction, at an eminently healthy clip. Or, to put it another way: you can start breathing easier again, come the first Friday of the month. All those good job numbers were real, after all."

    - Felix Salmon

    Felix (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by CoralGables on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 10:48:52 AM EST
    needs a proof reader as to what month he is referring.

    Parent
    Leaving aside that Felix meant (5.00 / 4) (#45)
    by Anne on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 11:26:32 AM EST
    "February," and not March, adding jobs is a good thing, but...you can't just look at one number in a vacuum.  There's jobs added, but there's also unemployment claims, the labor force participation rate, there's the quality of the jobs - permanent or temporary, and what sector - manufacturing, service, etc.  There's the public/private dynamic.

    Here's an interesting link to the Atlanta Fed's website, where you can plug in the target unemployment rate and the number of months to achieve that rate, and see how many jobs need to be added to get there.  For example, enter 6% target unemployment, and 30 months to get there - and you'll see that that will require that we add 223,381 jobs every month for those 30 months.  To get to 5.5% in the same time frame,  we'd need to add almost 250,000 jobs per month, every month, to get to that level.

    To get to a 7% rate by November would require that the economy add 354,000+ every month between now and the end of October.

    So, things are trending in a better direction, but we still have not seen the effect of rising gas prices, or what happens if we end up in another war, or Bank of America finally goes under.  It won't surprise you to know that I'm not ready to declare us out of the woods on the economy, but I have more cautious optimism - as opposed to Felix's near-giddiness -  than I had, say, six months ago.


    Parent

    At one point (1.00 / 3) (#58)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 12:46:36 PM EST
    Anne focused heavily on the U-6 number because she said that was a truer representative of the state of things.

    Well let's look at that number. Although the often quoted unemployment number stayed the same, the U-6 (the number Anne and others assert is more relevant) dropped by .2%.

    At 14.9%, the U-6 is at it's lowest level since the month that Obama took office.  Next month it is expected to start dropping below the levels we had under Bush.

    This is meaningful change.  Are people really going to argue that things are not genuinely starting to get better? This doesn't mean that things are great or awesome or whatever.

    What we need are things getting better.

    Things are getting better.

    And fortunately, the American public seems to be feeling it even though many here won't acknowledge it.

    Parent

    I really, really wish you would stop (5.00 / 3) (#66)
    by sj on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 01:08:28 PM EST
    trying to use Anne as your sock puppet.  I'm pretty sure she never gave you permission to do that.  

    Let your comments stand or fall on their own.  Stop using her to build the straw man with whom you are fiercely engaged in battle.

    Parent

    Do I have permission (1.00 / 3) (#67)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 01:16:42 PM EST
    to use you as a representative of TL commenters that spin everything that relates to Obama negatively.

    I just need a name for those who do that and Anne is a good proxy.  "Anti-Obamabots" seems overly complex.

    We all know what I am talking about though.

    Parent

    Of course you do NOT have my permission (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by sj on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 02:37:31 PM EST
    to misrepresent me.  Let your arguments rise or fall on their own.

    Parent
    'Some say' seems to work for others (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by ruffian on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 02:58:39 PM EST
    seeking a strawman

    Parent
    Wait ... so NOW that the U-6 rate ... (5.00 / 2) (#68)
    by Yman on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 01:18:27 PM EST
    ... declined .2% in February - while the u3 has remained flat - you suddenly agree with using the u6 as the more accurate barometer of unemployment?!?

    Heh.

    Parent

    Yman (2.00 / 1) (#94)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 03:09:48 PM EST
    I think that the U-3 rate and the U-6 rate generally track each other (with months like this as an exception) and each are good references for momentum and direction.

    When I used the U-3 rate, some said that meant nothing.  So now I reference both rates.  I don't really care which metric we choose because in terms of looking at overall movement, they both work relatively well.

    Now that the U-6 looks the best it's been since Obama took office and the U-3 is decreasing (note that after the huge drop the last few months the steady number this month was expected), are we now to look at a third number or some other metric that provides the most negative view?

    My real question: after months of good news, it is unclear to me what realistic month to month change (possible in this universe and not hypothetically) would result in some people saying "yeah, that really is good news".

    At this point I can't imagine what that could realistically be.

    Parent

    Try this on for size: (5.00 / 4) (#98)
    by shoephone on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 03:24:17 PM EST
    When I get hired to fulltime employment, at a rate higher than minimum f*ck*ing wage, with benefits--that is when I will say "that is really good news news."

    That won't make any sense to you, because you don't actually live in the "real world" you keep spouting off about, but there it is. That's the view from someone who lives in the real world.

    Parent

    Really? (5.00 / 2) (#105)
    by Yman on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 03:37:44 PM EST
    When I used the U-3 rate, some said that meant nothing.  So now I reference both rates.

    I missed your reference to the fact that the U-3 rate remained steady.  Could you point that out?

    Now that the U-6 looks the best it's been since Obama took office and the U-3 is decreasing (note that after the huge drop the last few months the steady number this month was expected), are we now to look at a third number or some other metric that provides the most negative view?

    You want something to wash down that straw argument, or are you used to all that straw by now?

    Parent

    I've been a fan of the turnaround (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by CoralGables on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 01:56:42 PM EST
    well before anyone wanted to say there was the makings of a turnaround, but I'm not going to trash Anne over her comment at all. Other than a little Eeyore sentiment at the end when she's worried about Iran and BOA, I'd say Anne posted an optimistic viewpoint for someone that over the last several months was far from optimistic.

    ABG, sometimes you have to read the comment closely before you attack. If you want to take issue with Anne's "what if the sky falls" at the end of her comment that might be justified, but to come out guns blazing in this case is rather foolish.

    Parent

    So, where to start.. (5.00 / 4) (#81)
    by Anne on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 02:10:07 PM EST
    First, when you are replying to a comment of mine, it would be appreciated if you would not speak of me in the third person; perhaps you didn't intend to reply to me, but seeing "[a]t one point Anne focused heavily..." and "the number Anne and others assert is..." when allegedly "speaking" to me was just weird.

    Second, both of your responses seem to have gone out of their way to avoid acknowledging the positives included in my original comment.  For what it's worth, my providing the link to the Atlanta Fed, the several examples of the jobs needed to get to specific rates of unemployment, was meant to help you - and anyone else reading - to appreciate what it will take in the form of sustained jobs growth to keep the unemployment rate moving down, but I would be lying if I didn't also admit that I did it to avoid your coming back with your usual pie-in-the-sky notions of where the rate would be by the election.  

    Third, to this part of your comment:

    This is meaningful change.  Are people really going to argue that things are not genuinely starting to get better? This doesn't mean that things are great or awesome or whatever.

    What we need are things getting better.

    Things are getting better.

    And fortunately, the American public seems to be feeling it even though many here won't acknowledge it.

    I would say, (1) I acknowledged it was meaningful, (2) I didn't make the argument that things aren't getting better, (3) I didn't say we didn't need for things to get better, (4)  I (again) acknowledged things were getting better and (5) if you want to talk about what "some here" aren't acknowledging, take it up with them, not the person to whom you were responding  - me - who did acknowledge it.

    I think that after months of using me as some sort of punching bag because I don't rush to get my pom-poms to join you in your rousing cheers of "What Do We Want?  OBAMA!  When Do We Want Him?  NOW!" you seem unable to cope with my even-handed assessment of the jobs report, and rather knee-jerkily keep trying to put words in my mouth so you can kinda/sorta pick a little fight with me.

    Duly noted.

    Parent

    Anne (none / 0) (#88)
    by sj on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 02:46:24 PM EST
    As ABG admits above, he using you as his "proxy" to make arguments that he can then refute.  That's why it sounds weird.  And he is using your comment to hang it from rather can creating a new comment thread where he can pretend he is responding, instead of having it be glaringly obvious he is talking out of his a$$ and doing battle with opponents made of straw.

    Parent
    If you want a laugh-or-cry experience, sj, (5.00 / 3) (#89)
    by Anne on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 02:55:31 PM EST
    see this link in Glenn's post today, to Piers Morgan's interview with Davis Guggenheim, the filmmaker who has produced the 17-minute film about Obama for the campaign.

    Glenn says:

    Hollywood producer and director Davis Guggeinheim just produced a 17-minute "documentary" hailing the greatness of Barack Obama and his many historic and profound accomplishments, and it will be released this week by the Obama campaign. Please just watch this two-minute interview of Guggenheim by CNN's Piers Morgan in which Guggenheim explains that nothing critical can or should be said of our President other than the fact that he is so Great that his Greatness cannot be sufficiently conveyed in a single film (via VastLeft); other than noting the obvious -- how creepy his Leader worship is and how perfect of a guest-host he'd be for several MSNBC shows -- all I can say is that this is the pure face of the Authoritarian Mind, but it is as common as it is repellent:

    When I watched it, I could only look on in a sort of fascinated horror - see if you can guess who this guy reminded me of...


    Parent

    Holey Moley (none / 0) (#127)
    by sj on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 07:06:08 PM EST
    Glenn characterizes that exactly right.  In spite of everything, I still find it hard to believe that someone would get on national TV and say all that out loud.

    Appreciated the final comment of Piers' on that video.

    Parent

    Watched the interview (none / 0) (#144)
    by Amiss on Sat Mar 10, 2012 at 05:30:05 AM EST
    had the same impression.  Just couldnt help it, and the more I watch Piers. the more I enjoy his interviews. I like his style.

    Parent
    Anne (none / 0) (#96)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 03:15:24 PM EST
    I reread your post and it was more positive than I indicated. I was a bit unfair in my criticism.

    I use you as proxy for those progressives that have been hardest and most negative about the administration and the economy.  That's probably unfair.

    One example of what frustrates me is the comments on FDL on the employment news.

    I don't understand what people realistically believe can happen at times.

    Parent

    ABG, thank you for acknowledging (none / 0) (#104)
    by Anne on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 03:37:33 PM EST
    these things.

    I thought, given my criticism of the administration on the economy - among other things - that it behooved me to acknowledge the good jobs report.

    I'm not convinced this is happening as a direct result (or even indirect result) of the administration's policies, and I still believe it is ignoring the serious problem of long-term unemployment, but I do appreciate that it is good when anyone who wants a job can get one.

    As for what people realistically believe, we're over three years into an administration that bought into the deficit hysteria, big-time, when there were other, better, choices to be made.  It's impossible to know what would have happened had Obama gone in a different direction, but we do know that conservative economic theory and practice doesn't perform as it is always claimed it will, and yet, that is the direction Obama chose.

    People are right to questions those choices.

    Parent

    OH Please ! (5.00 / 2) (#82)
    by samsguy18 on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 02:11:05 PM EST
    The U6 number is at 14.9% and it is more relevant! There are millions of long term unemployed people in this country and frankly the constant spinning and manipulation of the real number to make Obama and the administratio look good is appalling. Gallup yesterday posted an unemployment number of 9.1%....

    Parent
    There REALLY (5.00 / 2) (#143)
    by Amiss on Sat Mar 10, 2012 at 05:10:41 AM EST
    is no help for you is there? Anne was not just blowing those figures ou her "bazooka". I have been cooped up in hospital this week, not at death's door for a change, and had some opportunitiesto check out some things, too.

    Anne deeply cares about this country and does real digging to back up her posts, using usually more than one source. Please take heed and there is no malicious intent in this I say. Please, please, please do the same.

    Parent

    That (none / 0) (#47)
    by CoralGables on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 11:46:50 AM EST
    is a very fair assessment.

    Parent
    Anne (none / 0) (#55)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 12:40:54 PM EST
    We will not get to 7% by November. My hopes for the quick a recovery will not be fulfilled.

    However, every single economist I have read commenting on this reports is saying that it is either positive or very positive news.  More importantly, this continues a steady trend of positive news that began last year.  

    I see you reference the Atlanta Fed calculator and Krugman, who has been as skeptical as anyone economic expert on the left, references it too (and that may be where you got your information). Despite talking about past failures, he starts his post like this:

    "OK, definitely a better jobs report than we have become used to. And terrific news for Obama; another six months of news like this and he'll be in very good shape for reelection."

    Anyway, I think it is interesting to see how aligned many commenters here are with an unlikely party:

    "Today's jobs report is yet another reminder that far too many Americans are out of work, and the situation is clearly not improving. Millions of families continue to feel the pain of the sluggish Obama economy and the rising cost of gas, groceries, and healthcare. They are still waiting on President Obama to keep his promise of an economic recovery," -  RNC Chairman Reince Priebus.

    All I am saying is that it was a good report and you don't have to believe that everything is roses to be excited about the continued good news.  The only people negatively spinning this report are people that are doing so for political reasons:

    Republicans and . . .  well . . . whatever you call people on the left that seem determine to portray the administration as an absolute failure.

    This was a good report.  If you are objective and fair, step up and say that it was decent so that you have credibility when you blast the administration for bad economic news.

    Otherwise, it becomes clear that the motivation isn't the economy at all. It's something else.

    Parent

    So is the converse true? (5.00 / 3) (#61)
    by Yman on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 01:00:30 PM EST
    This was a good report.  If you are objective and fair, step up and say that it was decent so that you have credibility when you blast the administration for bad economic news.

    Otherwise, it becomes clear that the motivation isn't the economy at all. It's something else.

    When there were 3 months of job growth last Feb. March and April, you were doing your usual cheerleading, but then when the "recovery" tanked shortly thereafter, you immediately began issuing a litany of reasons beyond Obama's control (tsunami, European debt crisis, etc.).  Applying your standard, if you are "objective and fair" and want to have credibility, you need to "step up blast the administration" when there's economic bad news.

    Otherwise, it becomes clear that the motivation isn't the economy at all. It's something else.

    Parent

    Sound of crickets ... (5.00 / 0) (#106)
    by Yman on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 03:38:52 PM EST
    ... chirping quietly.

    Parent
    Credibility ? Other Motivation ? (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 04:00:05 PM EST
    Surely you jest.

    But what really catches me off guard; every time, the same players go for the same bait.

    Parent

    Yman (none / 0) (#132)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 08:59:01 PM EST
    Great point.  Obama does not get all of the credit for this (including any continued recovery) because presidents have relatively little power over this sort of thing.

    I just think it shows that the policies he approved that did have an impact weren't as terrible as has been argued.

    But you are correct.  Greece settling down is a huge part of this.

    Parent

    Well, (none / 0) (#145)
    by Amiss on Sat Mar 10, 2012 at 05:37:17 AM EST
    As far as a right wing report I also watched the interview with Ben Stein (sorry pretty much all I had to do at the time) and he was "slightly optimistic."

    Parent
    It is good. It is still OK to think it could have (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by ruffian on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 03:03:24 PM EST
    been better by now.

    It's taken far too long to get here, but we're finally moving in exactly the right direction, at an eminently healthy clip.

    Just in the nick of time for Obama and I am glad of that. I said at the time of the stimulus that is was the minimum amount that had a chance of working. Maybe that was by design. Do just enough to get reelected. Sorry about the millions without jobs that could have had them.

    Parent

    Some good indicators (5.00 / 2) (#97)
    by Dr Molly on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 03:16:00 PM EST
    and that's hopeful. But I'm concerned about the nature of any recovery. Because the income gap is wider than ever.

    Parent
    Pretty "optomistic" (none / 0) (#42)
    by Yman on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 10:53:45 AM EST
    There were 227,000 new jobs created in March, and the already-excellent numbers from the previous two months being revised upwards

    227,000 jobs in just the first 9 days of March?!?!

    That IS excellent!

    Heh.

    Parent

    US Dept of Labor (none / 0) (#43)
    by Edger on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 11:03:03 AM EST
    UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE WEEKLY CLAIMS REPORT
    March 8, 2012

    In the week ending March 3, the advance figure for seasonally adjusted initial claims was 362,000

    There were 227,000 new jobs created in March.

      362,000
    - 227,000
    = 135,000 net loss

    ...

    Department of "Huh?!": Steady Employment Report Blogging
    March 09, 2012

    2.0%/year real GDP growth is roughly consistent with average payroll gains of 90,000/month. 3.0%/year real GDP growth is roughly consistent with average payroll gains of 180,000/month. 4.0%/year real GDP growth is roughly consistent with average payroll gains of 270,000/month. Right now we have 2.0%/year real GDP growth projected for the first quarter, a lot of headwinds, and a Federal Reserve that has not extended itself via unconventional monetary policy. Why Felix Salmon is so optimistic that 2012 as a whole will see 3.5%/year real GDP growth eludes me.

    Felix Salmon has reacted wildly optimistically about pretty much every bit of US data we've seen over the past year.

    Felix is a clever writer, but he ain't no macroeconomist.

    A salmon is also a fish.


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    As far as I'm aware (none / 0) (#44)
    by Edger on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 11:13:31 AM EST
    The unemployment rate in Taiwan - where many US manufacturing jobs have been "relocated" to - is still hovering where it was on Feb 22 - around 4%

    Workers there are rolling in dough too, having earned an average of NT$36,803 (US$1,240) a month last year.

    Obama has been working hard on fixing the US employment situation, however...

    Why, if you've been wanting to launch a new business Obama soon will have the business climate improved to the point where you'll be able to hire an American workforce for your new venture for no more than the cost of labor in China! Thanks to the first trade agreement entirely negotiated by Obama.


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    I'm glad the trend is real (none / 0) (#135)
    by lilburro on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 10:30:24 PM EST
    I remember you saying that the jobs report for February might be weak.  Glad it is not.  I guess the situation in Europe turned out to not be as dire as many feared.

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    Listening to Jim Lehrer. Candidate Obama (none / 0) (#46)
    by oculus on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 11:44:28 AM EST
    during debate v . McCain talked about Wall St./Main St   I'd forgotten that. Sounded quite convincing.

    You can look forward... (none / 0) (#63)
    by kdog on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 01:04:46 PM EST
    to hearing the same spiel for the next few months...he already warned the banksters & grifters of the impending return of Candidate Obama, and not to panic wink wink.

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    Sometimes, it's nice (none / 0) (#51)
    by Edger on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 12:06:30 PM EST
    to just sit quietly like Grandpa does, and reminisce about The Good Old Days.

    I imagine as average incomes continue to worsen that those good old days may return sooner than we think, and help to drive labor demand and hiring in the commercial prison industry.

    Maybe the industry will start franchising and offering home based business opportunities for snitches?

    All My Heads Come Back To Me (none / 0) (#64)
    by Dadler on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 01:06:44 PM EST
    Grantland brackets The Wire. (none / 0) (#122)
    by caseyOR on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 06:06:16 PM EST
    Thanks to CST, I have become hooked on Grantland's brilliant use of the sports bracket system to determine the best of The Wire.

    It has been a hard fought tourney. Many a crowd favorite has fallen. Count me sad to have seen my girl Kima go out in the first round, and Bubbles, after a bit of a Cinderella run, finally fall.

    Today the Final Four has been determined. The pairings are Omar vs. Avon Barksdale and Stringer Bell vs. Jimmy McNulty. NcNulty made it by outlasting Bunk Moreland in a bit of a nail-biter Elite Eight.

    My money, if I had any money on any of this, would be on Omar and McNulty for the Finals.

     What say the rest of ye olde The Wire fans?

    Gotta agree (none / 0) (#146)
    by Yman on Sat Mar 10, 2012 at 07:25:01 AM EST
    Don't know how someone could bet against Omar, and Stringer's gotta be slowed down after meeting up with Omar in the condo building.

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    In Color!! (none / 0) (#129)
    by sj on Fri Mar 09, 2012 at 07:13:11 PM EST
    I shouldn't be laughing either.  I had to watch it twice.