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Saturday Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Sat Mar 03, 2012 at 09:46:00 AM EST
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I doubt I'll be online most of the day, so here's an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    Saturday Open Thread | 34 comments (34 topical)

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    woohoo.. spring is almost here (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by observed on Sat Mar 03, 2012 at 08:32:04 AM EST
    We had the first day with temperatures above freezing today.

    where are you located? (none / 0) (#10)
    by DFLer on Sat Mar 03, 2012 at 11:26:55 AM EST


    Parent
    Here: (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by oculus on Sat Mar 03, 2012 at 11:28:28 AM EST
    Astana

    Parent
    Cracks in the police state? (5.00 / 6) (#6)
    by Edger on Sat Mar 03, 2012 at 10:20:07 AM EST

    The Occupiers who are planning to descend on Chicago in May to protest the G8 and NATO meetings can breathe a sign of relief today.  The Illinois law which made it a felony to make audio recordings of police officers without their permission has been found unconstitutional by a state judge, who ruled that it could have the effect of criminalizing "wholly innocent conduct."

    As explained by the Chicago Tribune's Megan Crepeau, "The whole thing hinges on the idea that police officers have an expectation of privacy as they perform a public, taxpayer-funded duty. This law, in effect, punishes the public for holding its officials accountable to a public standard. The original intent -- to protect private conversations from being recorded -- has nothing to do with that."

    RawStory, March 02...

    Good news! (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Mar 03, 2012 at 10:31:31 AM EST


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    I second that (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by Dadler on Sat Mar 03, 2012 at 10:35:10 AM EST


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    An Illinois jury did not like (5.00 / 4) (#18)
    by KeysDan on Sat Mar 03, 2012 at 01:05:30 PM EST
    it either.  According to the Chicago Sun Times, last August (20ll), a 20-year old Indiana woman was brought to trial on charges that she secretly recorded police officers.  The woman said she taped internal affairs officers on her Blackberry because they were trying to convince her to not go forward with a sexual harassment complaint.  She said that she did not know about the Illinois eavesdropping law.    She was acquitted.  

    A case, brought by the ACLU is before the 7th Circuit--the ACLU argued to change the current law to make it legal to audio record public officials in public places. It is currently legal to video record police officials in public places, but illegal to audio record without consent of all parties. Hopefully, the federal court will find as did the Cook County judge--although in arguments, Federal Judge Richard Posner expressed concern with changing the law to include audio, because "snooping reporters would run rampant"  

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    because (none / 0) (#35)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Mar 03, 2012 at 04:56:54 PM EST
    "snooping reporters would run rampant"

    Well, we can certainly hope so!

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    Sperm is people? (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by cal1942 on Sat Mar 03, 2012 at 03:23:50 PM EST
    This takes the cake.  I suppose it had to come down to this.

    Lunacy on steroids.

    I wonder if we have enough jail capacity to incarcerate every 13 year old boy in the country.

    That's hitting right wing jerk-offs (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by Mr Natural on Sat Mar 03, 2012 at 03:27:52 PM EST
    where they live.  Hope it passes.

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    I don't understand your reaction here, cal1942. (5.00 / 2) (#28)
    by caseyOR on Sat Mar 03, 2012 at 03:56:03 PM EST
    Are you serious in voicing your objection to this legislation? You know that this was introduced and passed in response to all the efforts to restrict women's access to contraception and abortion, right? So, you understand that these politicians are making a point, right? That they are showing the misogyny inherent in the war on women's health, right?

    Also, a touch of "what's good for the goose is good for the gander" comes into play.

    Don't worry about all those 13 year old boys. Like always, all they have to worry about is going blind and getting warts on their palms.

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    Feds: Cocaine mule, 87, Key Link in Drug Biz (none / 0) (#1)
    by Mr Natural on Sat Mar 03, 2012 at 06:57:09 AM EST
    Detroit-- The most powerful drug cartel in Mexico pumped up to 660 pounds of cocaine into Metro Detroit each month since 2008, prosecutors said Thursday.

    Federal drug investigators dismantled the alleged pipeline by charging 18 people in a massive drug conspiracy in U.S. District Court. The indictment provides new details on an unusual drug case involving an octogenarian alleged drug mule and a powerful international narcotics ring.

    Damm scientists (none / 0) (#3)
    by Edger on Sat Mar 03, 2012 at 08:41:05 AM EST
    always popping bubbles and goin' around beating their reality drum.

    Something has to be done about this...

    The democratic process relies on the assumption that citizens (the majority of them, at least) can recognize the best political candidate, or best policy idea, when they see it. But a growing body of research has revealed an unfortunate aspect of the human psych...
    [snip]
    ...no amount of information or facts about political candidates can override the inherent inability of many voters to accurately evaluate them.
    [snip]
    In his mathematical model of the election, he assumed that voters' own leadership skills were distributed on a bell curve -- some were really good leaders, some, really bad, but most were mediocre -- and that each voter was incapable of recognizing the leadership skills of a political candidate as being better than his or her own. When such an election was simulated, candidates whose leadership skills were only slightly better than average always won.

    Nagel concluded that democracies rarely or never elect the best leaders. Their advantage over dictatorships or other forms of government is merely that they "effectively prevent lower-than-average candidates from becoming leaders."

    People Aren't Smart Enough for Democracy to Flourish, Scientists Say
    LiveScience.com, 28 February 2012

    Perhaps... (5.00 / 2) (#13)
    by desertswine on Sat Mar 03, 2012 at 11:32:42 AM EST
    "Their advantage over dictatorships or other forms of government is merely that they "effectively prevent lower-than-average candidates from becoming leaders."

    ...this interesting premise can use a little more study.  Because just off the top of my head...

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    typo corrections (none / 0) (#4)
    by Edger on Sat Mar 03, 2012 at 09:14:10 AM EST
    that should read " poppin' 'n beatin' "

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    Maybe that's why we are a (none / 0) (#32)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Mar 03, 2012 at 04:48:23 PM EST
    Constitutional Republic.

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    I'm eagerly awaiting (none / 0) (#5)
    by Makarov on Sat Mar 03, 2012 at 10:06:21 AM EST
    the punishments that will be handed down in the case of the New Orleans Saints running a bounty program to injure opposing players over the course of 3 years.

    Former DC Gregg Williams, now the DC for St. Louis Rams, and head coach Sean Payton seem to be the most culpable. Williams ran the system and Payton learned about it and did nothing. Both could be looking at long term suspensions, longer than any handed down to an NFL coach.

    The Saints organization will likely lose one or more draft picks. Their highest pick in 2012 comes in the 2nd round, but their 1st round pick in 2013 could also be in jeopardy.

    The NFL has been preaching "player safety" for several years, and this scandal is the perfect opportunity to send a message. Some believe Payton will get off with only a short suspension and / or a fine. I'm not so sure. Payton could face a one year suspension, and I think Williams could face an indefinite ban. At his age, 2 or 3 years could equate to a lifetime.

    Saints GM Mickey Loomis also learned of the system and did nothing, even after being ordered by the team owner to stop it during the 2011 season. I've never heard of a suspension for front office personnel, so he is likely to be subject to a large fine.

    they probably got that idea (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by jondee on Sat Mar 03, 2012 at 12:36:20 PM EST
    from the New Orleans municipal police force..

     

    Parent

    According to what I've read in (5.00 / 3) (#30)
    by Anne on Sat Mar 03, 2012 at 04:36:39 PM EST
    a number of outlets:

    All payouts for specific performances in a game, including interceptions or causing fumbles, are against NFL rules. The NFL also warns teams against such practices before each season.

    It's also, as I understand it, a violation of salary-cap rules on non-contract bonuses, which makes sense.

    If it's legal, you don't have to hide it, or deny it, do you?  And if it's legal, you can be sure they would all be doing something similar.

    If the league wants it to stop, the penalty has to be more than just people writing checks out of their already-enormous bank accounts; the penalty has to mean something.

    As bad as it is to have a program of spying on other teams, a video camera never took out a football player's knee or ankle, broke anyone's collarbone, or gave anyone a concussion, which is why many analysts I have read feel that the Saints' bounty program was much worse than Spygate, and deserves greater punishment.

    With suspensions and loss of draft picks, the real losers in this will be Saints fans, who did nothing.

    Parent

    Yes but (none / 0) (#37)
    by lilburro on Sat Mar 03, 2012 at 06:17:39 PM EST
    a football player's knee or ankle, broke anyone's collarbone, or gave anyone a concussion

    this happens all the time.  It's not just Saints' defenders.  People are bringing up the Saints' strategy of trying to knock out Favre's legs in 2009.  I'm sure that was the strategy, and it would've been had money not been involved.  I think "intending to injure" is happening a lot.  The bounty system shouldn't be the league norm, I think the Saints should be punished by the NFL, but I don't think the bounty system is worse than the video cheating.  I mean the hits happened, and were the players fined at the time?  Thrown out of the game?  Those seem like mechanisms that would be more useful in addressing this problem, which isn't exclusively a Saints' problem.

    It seems Williams is accused of using the system in DC, also.  Reuters

    Parent

    Hitting to Injure? (5.00 / 0) (#38)
    by womanwarrior on Sat Mar 03, 2012 at 08:44:10 PM EST
    Really, it's not that bad that that is what football is about?

    Know anybody that can't think straight anymore with multiple concussions?  

    Its okay that a quarterback in his 50's can't even walk without a cane?

    Yeah, they got paid to get hurt?  So it's okay to pay someone extra to intentionally injure someone enough to take them out for the season? Yeah, surgery and rehab is really fun.  

    That "playing to intentionally injure" is what started to make me sick of pro football of which I had been a fan.  I enjoy athletes excelling with their natural gifts, hard work and smarts. Even playing fair. Yeah, and it's okay in high speed car races ram another car and risk killing someone?  Ooh, I'm feeling boring and un-American, I guess.    

    Parent

    Amazingly... (none / 0) (#39)
    by desertswine on Sun Mar 04, 2012 at 01:07:00 AM EST
    Studies in the United States show that men who play five or more years in the NFL have a life expectancy of 55, 20 years less than the average in the general public. For linemen, perhaps due to their size, the life expectancy is 52.

    According to the CBC.

    Parent

    And why is that? (none / 0) (#42)
    by lilburro on Sun Mar 04, 2012 at 05:55:59 PM EST
    Because of the Saints' bounty program?  Of course not.  And the way the NFL takes care of its players and their health needs after retirement is pathetic.

    Parent
    Get off your high horse (none / 0) (#41)
    by lilburro on Sun Mar 04, 2012 at 05:53:01 PM EST
    I didn't say it "wasn't that bad."  I didn't say I love concussed players.  My point is that playing to injure is not something exclusive to the Saints and it's not going to be magically fixed by fining the Saints for the bounty system.  Maybe they should look at HGH use, continue fining for certain hits, etc.  What's making football as dangerous as it is is not bounty programs.  

    Parent
    tjhe Saints defense is terrible (none / 0) (#9)
    by MKS on Sat Mar 03, 2012 at 10:54:00 AM EST
    Perhaps they should have concentrated more on fundamentals....

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    Amen (none / 0) (#12)
    by DFLer on Sat Mar 03, 2012 at 11:30:15 AM EST
    Have hated the Saints since they willfully went after Bret Farve's knees in the playoff game two years ago.

    It was obvious that they were playing dirty...to injure. Now everyone knows.

    Parent

    Very common (none / 0) (#14)
    by CoralGables on Sat Mar 03, 2012 at 11:46:29 AM EST
    throughout football at all levels.

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    The cash bonus for doing so? (none / 0) (#20)
    by Towanda on Sat Mar 03, 2012 at 03:10:48 PM EST
    From what I've read, that's the difference in this story of the Saints.

    Other times have that explicit bonus, too?

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    Football is violence. (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by Mr Natural on Sat Mar 03, 2012 at 03:50:35 PM EST
    At least the Romans were honest about what they expected from their gladiators.

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    Yeah (none / 0) (#29)
    by lilburro on Sat Mar 03, 2012 at 04:16:30 PM EST
    I can't get worked up about this.  I basically agree with this guy.

    If the problem is with playing to injure, I don't know how you solve that.  They could be playing to injure w/o cash incentive, and no one would be making a big deal about it.  If you're really worried about injuries that's the problem right there, IMO.

    Parent

    And ESPN, like the good Captain (none / 0) (#33)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Mar 03, 2012 at 04:51:19 PM EST
    is cashing out their winnings.

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    Saturday Swing Time (none / 0) (#15)
    by Dadler on Sat Mar 03, 2012 at 11:49:47 AM EST
    The Parov Stelar Band -- Booty Swing Live (LINK)

    The Parov Stelar Band -- Chambermaid Swing Live (LINK)

    Have a groovin' Saturday, my friends.

    Let me weigh the options: (1) Met. (none / 0) (#16)
    by oculus on Sat Mar 03, 2012 at 12:33:39 PM EST
    broadcast of "Aida," and (2)....

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    Chronicles of wingnuttia (none / 0) (#40)
    by ruffian on Sun Mar 04, 2012 at 07:37:01 AM EST
    Charles Pierce documents the apologists.

    I don't know what else to say about it.

    Saturday Open Thread | 34 comments (34 topical)

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