Friday Afternoon Open Thread

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    To (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by lentinel on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 11:51:41 PM EST
    quote Irwin Corey,

    If we don't change our direction soon, we run the risk of ending up exactly where we're headed.

    The Benghazi Report and 2016 (none / 0) (#1)
    by Michael Masinter on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 07:54:51 PM EST
    How will the damning report on the failures of the  State Department in Benghazi affect the future prospects of Secretary Clinton?  Will the resignations of her subordinates insulate her from the fallout or will the report be the centerpiece of the inevitable opposition to her potential nomination?  In short, will Benghazi replace Whitewater, and if it does, will (should) it matter?

    Did 9/11 (none / 0) (#2)
    by MKS on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 10:09:07 PM EST
    prevent George Bush from being re-elected or Condi Rice from becoming Secretary of State?

    George W. (none / 0) (#5)
    by lentinel on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 10:57:11 PM EST
    Bush might have been defeated for re-election if he had faced a credible opponent. Kerry and Edwards were two dishrags.

    Swiftboating took care of Kerry. (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by oculus on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 11:12:15 PM EST
    Much to the discredit of the U.S. voter.  Shameful.  

    I thought (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by lentinel on Sat Dec 22, 2012 at 12:17:08 AM EST
    that Kerry did terribly in the debates.
    He was facing Bush - the biggest liar in history.
    Someone who lied us into a horrible war. Two horrible wars.
    Kerry couldn't confront Bush.
    Couldn't point out the obvious lies.
    To this day, the democrats are unable or unwilling or both to call Bush out on what he did to this country.

    And Edwards... am I right in recalling that he complemented Cheney on being such a wonderful father?

    Whatever... We had one of the best opportunities to get rid of one of the most vile creatures in our history, and Kerry fizzled. Make that two of the most vile creature in our history.

    And - do you remember Teresa Heinz Kerry's speech at the convention? She spent the whole time talking about her deceased former husband - Mr. Heinz. By the time she got around to John, everyone was either asleep or watching something else...


    Kerry won the debates (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by MKS on Sat Dec 22, 2012 at 12:31:38 AM EST
    That is how he narrowed the gap.

    Well, (none / 0) (#18)
    by lentinel on Sat Dec 22, 2012 at 01:00:49 AM EST
    maybe he "won" them.

    All I know is how I felt - watching him let Bush slither away undamaged and undaunted.

    Dean would have parboiled the s.o.b.


    Kerry came very close (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by MKS on Sat Dec 22, 2012 at 01:08:14 AM EST
    And knocking off an incumbent with the economy and the unemployment rate in decent territory is pretty tough....

    Bush could fake an authenticity that should make Romney green with envy.....


    Kerry was hamstrung in part (5.00 / 2) (#21)
    by brodie on Sat Dec 22, 2012 at 08:08:23 AM EST
    because he'd (unwisely) voted for the AUMF (not wanting to vote against two in a row, iirc, having voted against the first Gulf War of Poppy).  He was also an establishment insider pol, and those types tend not to use direct, confrontational language against their opponents.  There's sort of a tradition against doing that anyway in modern times in presidential debates at least.

    Can't recall, but Barry Goldwater certainly thought Lyndon was a liar, and possibly much worse (rumor has it he suspected Johnson might have been involved in Dallas), but I'm not sure if he actually used the L word in public against Lyin' Lyndon.

    Kudos to him though if he did.

    Kerry did well in the debates given some of his constraints and the rules of engagement.  His problem was earlier with the failure to be ready to quickly address the Swift Boaters, then in failing to call out, loudly and quickly, what Blackwell and Co were doing to suppress and manipulate the vote in OH.  That was a stolen election, imo, the second in a row for Bush against the Dems.  Just not quite as overtly done, but overt enough for Dems to try harder to try and stop.


    Kerry (none / 0) (#33)
    by lentinel on Sat Dec 22, 2012 at 12:40:43 PM EST
    was hamstrung by himself because he became kind of interested in the good life.

    Ultimately, those people find it difficult to distance themselves from someone like W.


    There was undoubtedly the (none / 0) (#34)
    by brodie on Sat Dec 22, 2012 at 01:22:22 PM EST
    cultural-economic elitist angle too which hurt him, while simulataneously he and his team allowed multimillionaire W to paint himself as a populist for the average guy.

    And it only looked ridiculous, and trying too hard to shore up a glaring weakness, when Kerry did that loud hunting photo-op with the murdered, bloodied pheasants in tow, which he may or may not have shot himself.

    Ultimately I would have preferred a little less finesse and more muscle with the Dem going up against Junior that year -- i.e. more like HST but without the awful FP hawkishness and civil liberties-suppressing Cold War policies.  Tough-minded, hard-working JFK vs Nixon might be a better positive example.  Don't back down, don't let attacks go unanswered, take the battle to your opponent and put him on the defensive.  

    But Kerry just didn't have JFK's innate political good sense nor his toughness.  Still, probably the best chance candidate we had that year, given Hillary had pledged to finish her senate term and because Gov Dean would not have resonated with enough blue-collar Dems to win outside a few coastal states.

    And I think Kerry and his team took a remarkably naive and legalistic approach to addressing the election stealing efforts by Rove et al -- huge mistake.


    Kerry. (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by lentinel on Sat Dec 22, 2012 at 02:11:53 PM EST
    Don't back down, don't let attacks go unanswered, take the battle to your opponent and put him on the defensive.  

    That would have been a winning strategy.
    He didn't go that route because he wasn't that committed. He didn't see things that clearly. Money, comfort, power and the good life does that to people.

    I do think, however, that Dean would have easily destroyed Bush. And I do think that the "average" American could easily identify with him - because he truly identified with them.

    But, as I said, considering the muscle that Bush laid upon us - through the media, with Cheney, with his associations with the arms makers and Cheney's connection with war profiteer Halliburton... etc. Kerry exhibited no muscle. No conviction. No identification with the people of the United States. He appeared to have nothing to offer - and Bush had the appearance of having done something to keep us "safe". f

    I hope Kerry is appointed ambassador to Hallieryville in Platerzingyland and we never hear from him again.


    And Gore was a terrible stiff (5.00 / 4) (#13)
    by MKS on Sat Dec 22, 2012 at 12:36:25 AM EST
    And Bill was a triangulator...

    And Dukakis was a dufus.....

    And Mondale was too old style...

    And Carter was not as liberal as Teddy....

    And McGovern, well, now we have a good candidate....

    And Humphrey was a supporter of LBJ

    And LBJ was a war monger

    Except for McGovern, the Democratic nominees have been soooo disappointing.....


    Well, all that, except for the part (none / 0) (#22)
    by brodie on Sat Dec 22, 2012 at 08:28:14 AM EST
    about Lyndon of course ... ; )

    Probably. She and former (none / 0) (#4)
    by oculus on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 10:49:22 PM EST
    Pres. Clinton are on the cover of "The Enquirer" with a caption that they "lie."  Supermarket checkout line.

    Not everyone will vote for Hillary (none / 0) (#7)
    by MKS on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 11:47:26 PM EST
    and she will have to suffer the same old stuff, but she will still win, perhaps by as much as 10% in the General Election.

    Obama still has to put up with the birther nonsense.  

    Hillary is used to this idiocy....


    Upon what do you base your opinion? (none / 0) (#9)
    by oculus on Sat Dec 22, 2012 at 12:01:44 AM EST
    Since (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by lentinel on Sat Dec 22, 2012 at 12:20:03 AM EST
    this is an open thread, and I know you listen to music a lot, I was wondering if you know of the pianist Dinu Lipatti? And if so, what do you think of him?

    A wonderful musician. (none / 0) (#14)
    by oculus on Sat Dec 22, 2012 at 12:41:19 AM EST
    As I recall, he taught at U. Mass and I think my sister studied with him at some point.

    His (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by lentinel on Sat Dec 22, 2012 at 12:56:03 AM EST
    performance of "Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring" on Columbia is one of the most beautiful things I have ever heard.

    If your sister studied with him, all I can say is, "wow!"


    A 5 for lentinel (2.00 / 1) (#24)
    by CoralGables on Sat Dec 22, 2012 at 09:23:11 AM EST
    for a positive comment. It doesn't happen often, but when it does it should be rewarded.

    I have (5.00 / 4) (#32)
    by lentinel on Sat Dec 22, 2012 at 12:37:14 PM EST
    many positive things to say - about artists, people and some politicians - believe it or not.

    I know that recording!! (none / 0) (#26)
    by observed on Sat Dec 22, 2012 at 10:19:13 AM EST
    There is a russian pianist who has a wonderful performance of a different Bach Chorale.
    I can't remember the pianist's name, but I remember he won the Tschaikowsky competition in the early 1960's when he was 16, IIRC.
    Right now I'm in Dubai, btw.
    65C temperature change from last week in Astana.
    That's a shock to the system:)

    Grigory Sokolov, Ich Ruf zu Dir (none / 0) (#28)
    by observed on Sat Dec 22, 2012 at 10:27:16 AM EST
    You should check him out playing the last movement of the Rachmaninoff 3rd. His tempo is a bit slower than usual, but he plays with phenomenal architecture and control.
    Also, he plays chords from immense heights. That's quite unusual, and looks very daring.

    he taught Bela Siki, who (none / 0) (#25)
    by observed on Sat Dec 22, 2012 at 10:16:55 AM EST
    I knew very slightly some years ago.
    Siki had many fine students, himself.

    Oculus, (none / 0) (#27)
    by observed on Sat Dec 22, 2012 at 10:22:58 AM EST
    speaking of music, someone you know is on youtube for a vocal performance from Phantom.
    That someone won a certificate from the President of the uni as appreciation.

    Someone I "know"? (none / 0) (#29)
    by oculus on Sat Dec 22, 2012 at 11:17:06 AM EST
    Oh, I get it. Not sure how to search with (none / 0) (#30)
    by oculus on Sat Dec 22, 2012 at 11:17:57 AM EST
    those clues but I'll give it a shot.  

    This may take awhile: (none / 0) (#31)
    by oculus on Sat Dec 22, 2012 at 11:24:56 AM EST
    about 5,260 results

    I'll send you a link later. (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by observed on Sun Dec 23, 2012 at 03:55:35 AM EST
    Sent (none / 0) (#37)
    by observed on Sun Dec 23, 2012 at 09:12:34 AM EST
    Not possible re my sister, (none / 0) (#17)
    by oculus on Sat Dec 22, 2012 at 12:56:16 AM EST
    as Liipatti died in 1950 and she was 1 yr. old.  

    However, isn't this terrific name for his teacher, with whom Rada Lupu also studied?

    He then attended the Bucharest Conservatoire, studying under Florica Musicescu, who also taught him privately.
    . [Wiki excerpt.]

    2008 (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by MKS on Sat Dec 22, 2012 at 12:48:26 AM EST
    Hillary almost won....But for a shrewd campaign by Obama that picked up a lot of delegates in caucuses in small states, Hillary would have won.

    She would have cleaned McCain's clock.....polls showed as much at the time...

    She has a potentially broader base of support than Obama that would include more working class whites and women of all stripes....She should be able to pick up almost all of Obama's coalition of younger voters, college educated Whites, Blacks and Hispanics.  Indeed, she has been more popular among Hispanics than Obama, as the 2008 primary shows....Any drop-off in the enthusiasm of the Obama coalition should be more than made up by the enthusiasm generated for the first woman President.

    Hillary has only gotten better since 2008....She has laid to rest any concerns based on being a loyal supporter of Obama....

    She will face misogyny....but Obama faced racism....Being the first woman President will bring in more support than opposition based misogyny....  


    Another shooting (none / 0) (#3)
    by Lora on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 10:17:19 PM EST
    In Altoona, PA

    There's something happening here...

    There's something happening here... (5.00 / 2) (#23)
    by unitron on Sat Dec 22, 2012 at 08:55:19 AM EST
    ...what it is ain't exactly clear...

    But it sure seems like every time that

    ...there's a man with a gun over there...


    Interesting article (none / 0) (#20)
    by oculus on Sat Dec 22, 2012 at 02:07:01 AM EST
    Referencing studies and polls re gun control:


    I can't take the (none / 0) (#38)
    by sj on Sun Dec 23, 2012 at 09:59:21 PM EST
    San Francisco Chronicle seriously since they published this tripe.

    It may (or may not) be a failing on my part.


    OMG! sj. What absolute tripe. Although (none / 0) (#39)
    by caseyOR on Sun Dec 23, 2012 at 10:43:33 PM EST
    entirely too common in those heady days of 2008.  I wonder if the author would write the same article, with the same claims, today.

    He hasn't improved much (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by sj on Sun Dec 23, 2012 at 11:47:56 PM EST
    In 2009 he doubled down, in 2011 he turned to "but look at the other guy" and post election he rejoiced -- with a healthy dose of "but look at the other guy".

    So overall I'd say the guy is still pretty much an @ss.


    But wait, this actually happened: (none / 0) (#41)
    by MyLeftMind on Mon Dec 24, 2012 at 12:35:45 AM EST
    "...it's just a clever marketing ploy, a slick gambit carefully orchestrated by hotshot campaign organizers who, once Obama gets into office, will suddenly turn from perky optimists to vile soul-sucking lobbyist whores..."