Monday Morning Open Thread

The 11 Show, starring me, will discuss tonight's debate.

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Open Thread.

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    RIP, Russell Means (1940-2012). (5.00 / 5) (#6)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 10:53:25 AM EST
    Russell Means, the Lakota activist and American Indian Movement leader who led the 1973 armed occupation of Wounded Knee and focused national attention upon the ongoing socio-economic plight of America's indigenous peoples, died early today at his ranch in South Dakota at age 72.

    Aloha to a man who made a real difference.

    I second that (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by Dadler on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 11:09:06 AM EST
    a great American.  And I'll link to a documentary film I know Mr. Means is closely connected to: Incident at Oglala. (LINK)  Reading Peter Mathiesson's IN THE SPIRIT OF CRAZY HORSE is a better start, but the film is here and free. Peace.

    I credit the 1973 Siege at Wounded Knee ... (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 03:00:16 PM EST
    ... as the event which commenced my gradual awakening as a progressive.

    At the time, I remember watching network news coverage of that crisis, and lamenting to myself that this is so obviously wrong, that clearly the Indians are only trying to defend themselves, and they don't deserve this further indignity at the hands of white men as represented by the FBI, federal marshals and the National Guard.

    I asked my grandfather -- a socially progressive Republican -- how we could let the Oglala Sioux on the Pine Ridge Reservation just exist in abject poverty, as they so obviously did.

    He responded matter of factly that he was emabarrassed to admit that the manner in which the American Indians were treated by us was a national disgrace, and that they had every right to feel terribly aggrieved and to further demand a just resolution to those grievances. "Everyone else has been marching for their civil rights," he said. "Why should they be any different?"

    T believe that the Siege at Wounded Knee in 1973 proved a real turning point in the Native Americans' long twilight struggle to regain their inherent rights as autonomous peoples to self-determination and personal empowerment.

    In my eyes and estimation, by courageously challenging the status quo as it existed at the time (he could very well have lost his life) and compelling people to pay attention, Russell Means is a great American hero.



    Here is the video of ... (none / 0) (#59)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 03:58:12 PM EST
    ... one of Russell Means' last public interviews, conducted while on his ranch at Pine Ridge, SD. It's a rather lengthy viewing, but worthwhile. Mr. Means is thoughful and provocative, as always.

    Too risky for Obama to equate .... (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by magster on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 01:05:25 PM EST
    Romney's 47 % statement with Romney's missionary service after demonstrating in support of war in Vietnam, and none of Romney's kids serving in the military. To me, as a biased Dem, it just seems so obvious that Mitt and the Romney family is all about others fighting their wars for them, but is it too risky to say that obliquely tonight?

    Are you saying that (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by Anne on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 02:45:05 PM EST
    the elitism embedded in Romney's economic worldview extends to being in favor of wars that the non-elite can go and fight on his behalf?  And that somehow, Obama should attempt to make that correlation?

    That could be hard to do if it isn't just dead-on perfect, but I agree there's a point to be made.

    "I don't know whether to find it odd, Governor, or whether it makes perfect sense, but why is it that someone who is so in favor of fighting wars for which he and his sons will never put on a uniform also has an economic agenda that will ultimately take more and more from the segment of the population that puts on that uniform, or who keeps the home fires burning, who work in the factories or offices or on the farms, who can't get a break because they depend on wages for their support and not interest, dividends and earnings from hundred-million dollar retirement accounts?  What have you sacrificed, Governor, and how in the name of all that is good do you explain to the American people that if they don't have what they need, you're not going to be the guy who helps create the conditions that allow their hard work to get it - you're going to be the guy who figures out how to take even more from them, and add it to the pile with your name on it?"

    Maybe just a simple, "what have you sacrificed, Governor?  What wars that you support have you fought in - what wars have your children fought in?  And why do you think so little of the daily sacrifices of every day Americans that you think they haven't sacrificed enough?"

    I honestly don't think it would take much to slam Romney's florid elitism - he's not very good at hiding it.


    ... and that attack would work better for Obama... (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by magster on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 02:52:20 PM EST
    ... if Obama had served.

    Exactly. (none / 0) (#47)
    by oculus on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 02:57:51 PM EST
    It's much more consistent for Obama to tout (none / 0) (#52)
    by magster on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 03:09:52 PM EST
    a drawdown of conflict in Afghanistan and to give peas a chance in Iran than it is for chickenhawk Romney to go all chest-thump on war.

    True, there is that. (none / 0) (#49)
    by Anne on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 03:05:59 PM EST
    But when someone is asking people to put their lives on the line in defense of the nation, he cannot - or should not - also simultaneously ask that segment of the population out of which the bulk of our volunteer military comes, to also make the kinds of economic sacrifices that the agenda of a Mitt Romney and his Isane GOP Posse seek to impose.

    I think that's how you counter the inevitable "well, you didn't serve, either, so who are you to lecture me about sacrifice?"

    Problem is, we have that whole "Grand Bargain" thing sitting out there that's not exactly in the FDR mold; we have the ideas of Bowles/Simpson in the room, too - that makes me a lot more uncomfortable about the economics than the fact that neither of these men have served in the military.


    There's always the angle of (none / 0) (#50)
    by nycstray on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 03:06:14 PM EST
    sending other people's children off to war when your own children/grandchildren go out and knock on doors for the church instead . . .  but put more diplomatically, lol!~

    It's certainly risky... (none / 0) (#45)
    by magster on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 02:50:54 PM EST
    ... but Romney could really be put on the defensive on this if Romney comes out as pro-war in Iran, Syria or Afghanistan. I'd love to see Obama call Romney a chickenhawk.

    Seems that way to me too (none / 0) (#26)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 01:16:42 PM EST
    I put it on my facebook not along ago with a photo of Romney and all of his sons, Romney supported the Iraq War and not one son in uniform.  He also opposed the ending of the Iraq War and not one son in uniform.  He supports the possibility of war with Syria and Iran, and I think maybe even the Soviet Union if the NeoCons working for him can find it.....and not one son in uniform.  The architects of the Iraq War all work for him now and not one son in uniform.

    The Biden family suffered horrible tragedy, and even with that in their history one son went to Iraq with the serfs.


    After Romney finishes obsessing on (none / 0) (#31)
    by oculus on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 02:05:08 PM EST
    China as a currency manipulator, will he take them on also?

    Yes, but... (none / 0) (#64)
    by unitron on Tue Oct 23, 2012 at 11:59:11 AM EST
    ...only as business partners so that he can get the benefit of cheaper labor and no environment-protecting restrictions.

    I have to take somone to the (none / 0) (#1)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:01:27 AM EST
    dentist, so will have to enjoy the pod cast :(

    K-dog> gas price alert (none / 0) (#2)
    by DFLer on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:14:30 AM EST
    Well it's pretty nutz...went out two days ago in the am...3.59...on the way home...3.56...later 3.51.
    Yesterday 3.49, then I swear I saw 3.47...or maybe that was a dream. (all prices include 99 cents...didn't bother to write that out.)

    See Now... (none / 0) (#3)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 10:31:26 AM EST
    ...if you got one of those fancy smart phones you hate so much, you could do what I do and bring up Gas Buddy to see who is the lowest no matter where you are.

    It's customer driven and it lists all gas grades on a map so I can see who is on my route.

    Here is the desktop version.  Zoom in until the prices appear.


    not a dream (none / 0) (#27)
    by DFLer on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 01:33:03 PM EST
    actually another drop to 3.45

    Isn't this happening anywhere else?


    $3.19 for regular (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by MO Blue on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 02:43:50 PM EST
    in my neck of the woods here in MO.

    Sorry... (none / 0) (#28)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 01:46:33 PM EST
    ...that comment was for kdog.

    Gas has been up & down weekly here, I think I paid about $3.49 for mid-grade last week, which is pretty low.


    $4.39 here for "87." (none / 0) (#30)
    by oculus on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 02:03:03 PM EST
    I know it was...it's okay! (none / 0) (#33)
    by DFLer on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 02:07:47 PM EST
    Local News.... (none / 0) (#62)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Oct 23, 2012 at 10:42:09 AM EST
    ...here in Houston is claiming $3.20 by Turkey Day.

    That would be something.


    Some good polling news for Obama today (none / 0) (#4)
    by lilburro on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 10:41:17 AM EST
    after PPP found the state terrifyingly close yesterday, with Obama only up 1, CBS shows him up 5.

    A nice if probably brief dose of relaxation for me this Monday.

    If Obama is on tonight.... (none / 0) (#7)
    by magster on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 10:57:32 AM EST
    as in: "that's just not true", eye contact and a facial expression that conveys "i give a s#!t" , then Obama wins the debate.

    My pessimistic outlook is starting to creep into my ability to get a good night's sleep. My work for Obama just feels like it's not doing any good. Every one I canvass seems to either shut the door or say I'm with you. Only a couple of people seem to want to listen.



    Yeah (none / 0) (#9)
    by lilburro on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 11:11:47 AM EST
    I should be phonebanking (I enjoy canvassing so much more because of the camaraderie, etc. and obviously, I enjoy arguing with strangers, particularly Democrats) but at the moment I'm just tossing a some cash at the Obama campaign once a week or so.  I figure if Romney's strategy is to carpetbomb with ads, might as well enable Obama to do (almost) the same.

    Perhaps this will make you feel better about the ground game?  Campaign Boils Down to Door to Door Voter Drives.


    We've been phonebanking ... (5.00 / 3) (#35)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 02:09:18 PM EST
    ... in the late afternoons down at our local Democratic Party HQ, but we're actually drumming up the Democratic vote in the state of Nevada.

    Further, Democratic Congresswoman Mazie Hirono is leading former GOP Gov. Linda Lingle by 16 points in the race for the U.S. Senate seat being vacated by the retiring Daniel Akaka.

    So, since the islands are so far in the tank for Obama (he'll win here by 30+ points), we're directing our own efforts toward places in the country where they're clearly needed, by complementing the Nevada Democrats' GOTV drive in the Clark County / Las Vegas and Reno / Tahoe metro areas, where Democratic voters tend to congregate in the state.


    that Ohio poll you cited was a relief... (none / 0) (#10)
    by magster on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 11:19:07 AM EST
    But I'm about 50 times more anxious this time around than I was in 2008. Everyone knew Obama was going to crush. But this year... If Obama wins Ohio, there are very realistic scenarios that Obama gets 271 EVs, with the election coming down to CO and NV.

    If Obama loses NH, VA and NC in the first wave of eastern time results, election night is going to be hell.


    I fear (none / 0) (#11)
    by Towanda on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 11:37:18 AM EST
    that early returns are going to be purgatorial -- as it's not looking good for him in NC and at least northern VA, and I think that will mean VA.

    NH, though, is look better.  Woot, 4 EC votes!  But by the end of the night, 4 votes might be a factor.


    For all the attention FL got in 2000... (none / 0) (#12)
    by magster on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 11:39:05 AM EST
    Gore lost because of NH.

    Speaking of..... (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by magster on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 03:25:45 PM EST
    Obama +8 in NH in a poll just released.



    Texas State Bar files ethics suit... (none / 0) (#5)
    by DebFrmHell on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 10:51:53 AM EST
    State Bar files ethics suit against Morton prosecutor

    url= Austin Amer Link to Story[/url]

    A State Bar of Texas disciplinary commission has filed a lawsuit accusing former Williamson County District Attorney Ken Anderson of violating his duty as a lawyer by intentionally withholding favorable evidence from Michael Morton, who served almost 25 years in prison for a murder he did not commit.

    The petition also said Anderson did not reply truthfully when District Judge William Lott, who oversaw Morton's trial and is now deceased, asked if all favorable evidence had been turned over to defense lawyers as required by law.

    "During a pretrial hearing, (Anderson) affirmatively told the trial court that he had no evidence favorable to the accused. That statement was false," the petition said.

    Admittedly I am a little biased but some of the allegations remind me of the Zimmerman case in FL.

    Romney Family ties to Ohio Voting Machines (none / 0) (#13)
    by Angel on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 12:12:17 PM EST

    My amateur theory... (none / 0) (#14)
    by magster on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 12:22:46 PM EST
    ... is that cheating like voting machines, voter suppression can only change the outcome in an otherwise 50/50 election. If Obama is up by 5 like CBS says, that's too big a margin. Sucks for Obama that he has to get 51% in order to get 50.1%, but it's doable and Obama seems to be ahead in Ohio by enough to keep Tagg from making a difference.

    Here's the link I originally tried to give. (none / 0) (#21)
    by Angel on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 12:31:59 PM EST
    works (none / 0) (#34)
    by DFLer on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 02:08:53 PM EST
    If you hit "Preview," you can (none / 0) (#44)
    by Anne on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 02:50:44 PM EST
    check it out to see if it works before you post.  In the preview screen, just right click on the link to open it in a new window - and you'll know right away whether you're good to go, or need to fix it.

    I read that 1 in 5 in Ohio have already voted (none / 0) (#22)
    by Angel on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 12:33:55 PM EST
    and the margin goes to Obama by about 75%.  Not sure if that's true, but it is certainly helpful.

    Nate Silver's Five Thirty Eight latest. (none / 0) (#15)
    by Angel on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 12:23:06 PM EST

    Here's the link. (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by Angel on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 12:24:03 PM EST

    A man of few words (none / 0) (#17)
    by Towanda on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 12:24:18 PM EST
    and fewer numbers?  Not the Nate Silver we know.

    Ha! I've got computer gremlins today! (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by Angel on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 12:25:17 PM EST
    Why are my links not working today? (none / 0) (#18)
    by Angel on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 12:24:48 PM EST
    Nice to see TPM's polltracker give O 271... (none / 0) (#20)
    by magster on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 12:27:52 PM EST
    with Ohio back to the light blue.

    NVM. Suffolk says OH is tied... (none / 0) (#25)
    by magster on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 01:15:50 PM EST
    making Ohio tossup again. Suffolk is biased obviously.

    An interesting story after Obama wins is how the GOP may have tried to game the narrative created by the 538's and RCP's of this world by commissioning GOP leaning polls.


    Sheez! now TPM says PA is tossup (none / 0) (#51)
    by magster on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 03:07:30 PM EST
    thanks to Gravis Marketing. Going back to my previous comment, someone needs to expose these GOP pollsters that are flooding the poll aggregation sites in an attempt to create false momentum. Of course that requires Obama to overperform.

    Gravis (none / 0) (#60)
    by CoralGables on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 04:31:54 PM EST
    is definitely a phony GOP poll. From all I've seen there may not even be any polling. Looks like a one man operation with a blogspot that is a member of his local Republican club.

    If Romney can't win this year.... (none / 0) (#23)
    by magster on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 12:47:44 PM EST
    I don't see how, demographically speaking, the GOP can ever win the presidency without a major shift by the GOP on immigration issues.

    One thing that combats my pessimism is the theory that polls drastically undercount the latino vote in CO, NV, AZ, FL and even in VA and NC.

    The statewide Rocky Mountain Poll in AZ ... (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 03:25:47 PM EST
    ... last week had both President Obama and Democratic U.S. Senate candidate Richard Carmona winning the Latino vote there by nearly identical margins of almost 8-to-1, which accounted for both races being moved into the category of statistical dead heat.

    And for that, we can probably credit the behavior of Arizona's xenophobic Replublican Gov. Jan Brewer, crackpot-crazy Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio, and their merry bands of equally loopy white-wing moonbats.

    If Democrats can somehow mount an effective GOTV effort in Maricopa County (Phoenix) and Pima County (Tucson) to mine the votes of outraged minorities and progressive gringos, they can actually surprise the GOP here, or at the very least, force Republicans to divert precious campaign resources to Arizona in order to defend their own turf.


    Two other states that are swing states (none / 0) (#29)
    by Towanda on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 02:01:12 PM EST
    and that have Latino/a populations in interesting areas of those states beyond notice of media are Iowa and Wisconsin, that I know of -- and I would not be surprised about the swing state of Michigan, too.  In some areas I know, intermarriage has been going on for a while and can muddle the population estimates based on surnames.  Whether for that reason or ?, I rarely see recognition of Latinos/as living all over those states, not just in urban areas.

    Query to those who are following Lance (none / 0) (#32)
    by oculus on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 02:06:43 PM EST
    Armstrong's decline and fall:  Howse come, with all the doping tests while he was racing, he wasn't caught then?  (I am way too lazy to read all the background.  One par. or less will do it.)

    I think they mixed up his lab results ... (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 02:18:21 PM EST
    ... back then with this guy's.



    Apparently several different methods he (none / 0) (#36)
    by easilydistracted on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 02:16:34 PM EST
    allegedly used to cover it up. Not sure of them all -- however blood transfusion was supposedly one of the methods.

    and he was also very lucky (none / 0) (#38)
    by fishcamp on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 02:20:31 PM EST
    sneaking in and out of rooms with his syringes and drugs minutes before other people arrived.  wish I could find the report on that to link.  wish I knew how to link with this iMac.

    Good old fashioned witness testimony... (none / 0) (#40)
    by magster on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 02:23:06 PM EST
    ... as I understand it. Dozens of former teammates have narc'ed on him.

    They Test Offseason as Well... (none / 0) (#63)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Oct 23, 2012 at 11:19:27 AM EST
    ...and the teammates are claiming the easiest way to avoid them were to simply hide or not answer the hotel room when they came looking.  They had a system when a tester was spotted, and no one could be found.

    Sounds dumb, but they would avoid the testers until they purified their blood with transfusions.

    Keep in mind, most of the stuff they were using wasn't being tested on pass/fail it was on ppm because stuff like testosterone is present, they are looking for elevated amounts.

    The report also indicated that he didn't pass a lot of tests, but it didn't expand and mentioned that doesn't equate to failing them either.  I didn't understand that.  It made it seem like they were taking substances that weren't banned at the time, but looking back, they were performance enhancing which are banned even if not on a specific list.

    Lastly, and what I think was really his demise, is he not only took them, he insisted that everyone else partake to elevate his career.  This wasn't just about Lance, the entire team was portrayed as well orchestrated team of performance enhancing users with Lance the ringleader who also was the supplier.

    The mountains of proof and testimony leave little doubt, and IMO it's why everyone fled like he had the plague, his denial simply isn't possible.

    More than a paragraph, but about as concise as this story gets.


    Photos (none / 0) (#39)
    by lentinel on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 02:22:53 PM EST
    of Fidel have been published showing him walking around in his sombrero.

    The New York Times went out on a limb and said that the photos "seem" to debunk the rumor that he is dead.

    Ya think?

    I thought the earlier report was stroke, (none / 0) (#41)
    by oculus on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 02:30:19 PM EST
    not death.  What with the fabulous free Cuban medical system, I wouldn't expect Castro to be knocked down forever w/a stroke.  (snk.)

    Questions I'd like to see tonight... (none / 0) (#53)
    by magster on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 03:16:08 PM EST
    each candidate's position on Uganda's move to execute and stigmatize gays there.

    each candidate's position on being able to use international banks to avoid their home countries' tax policies.

    each candidate's position on outsourcing to China.

    and,... (none / 0) (#56)
    by magster on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 03:27:53 PM EST
    each candidate's position on not humiliating allies on foreign policy trips to the ally's country when they are hosting Olympics.

    Re tonight's debate (none / 0) (#57)
    by kmblue on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 03:30:45 PM EST
    I'm afraid.  I am very afraid.

    Really? Why? (none / 0) (#58)
    by Mr Tuxedo on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 03:56:23 PM EST
    Obama's got this. You're joking, right?

    Actually (none / 0) (#61)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 06:30:25 PM EST
    I'm the least nervous about this debate. Foreign policy is the area where Romney performs worst.