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Monday Afternoon Open Thread

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Blog Related
Posted on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 03:40:10 PM EST
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I'm sorry, but I have a situation that has come up that will prevent my live blogging tonight's debate. Sorry about that.

Open Thread.

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    Monday Afternoon Open Thread | 51 comments (51 topical)

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    My (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by lentinel on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 04:41:43 PM EST
    feeling is that nobody is going to be swayed one way or the other by this debate tonight. On Iran, both are making similar noises. On Afghanistan, both are being definitively evasive. My hope that we will be out of there in two years is very very faint.

    But issues do not seem to be the object of peoples' speculation.
    The big speculation is about the behavior of the two candidates thrust upon us. Will we see the soft side of Romney? Will we see the combative side of Obama?

    I don't believe either of them is equipped or committed to an economic policy that will help the people who need the most help.
    During the Obama presidency, the disparity between the rich and the rest of the population continued to expand exponentially.

    And, I am still thinking about Obama's initial performance against the ghoul Romney. People asked, where was he? In this case, I agree with Maureen Dowd. He was there. That was him. Bereft of passion. Bereft of ideas.

    And Romney - God help us.

    I find myself hoping that the election is very close. I would like Obama to know that people are no longer going for his act. I would like Romney to lose - but mostly because we have already had four years of a neophyte. And also because he, Romney, seems to me to be a dangerous mofo in the W. mold.

    I'll be glad when all of this is over.

    Og, really? (4.25 / 8) (#10)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 05:04:26 PM EST
    lentinel: "On Iran, both [President Obama and Gov. Romney] are making similar noises."

    Then please explain THIS, which apparently led to THIS and  THIS.

    "I would like Obama to know that people are no longer going for his act."

    Sorry, but this election is neither about you nor your desires. Rather, it's become a classic base election that offers voters a very real choice regarding two very different visions and long-term directions for this country.

    I apologize that it doesn't exactly fit your oft-stated personal narrative in which there's no fundamental and substantive difference between the two major political parties, but that's just the way it is.

    Parent

    Oh, Jesus, Donald, get over yourself. (5.00 / 9) (#14)
    by Anne on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 05:23:17 PM EST
    Did someone appoint you to be the one who always has to jump in to tell people their opinions don't matter, and they'd better get with the program?

    Of course this election is about lentinel and his/her desires - it's about what all of us want.

    And I hate to break it to you, dear Donald, but there is less daylight between these two candidates than you seem to be willing to admit - which, if I can be blunt, makes you look like you have your eyes closed, your fingers stuck in your ears and your mouth saying "lalalalalalala" as loud as you can.

    I think we're all aware that Romney isn't just a little bit worse than Obama, he's exponentially worse - but that still doesn't elevate Obama to significantly higher moral ground, and it doesn't change the fact that Obama and the center-right Dems are headed to the same place as the Romney crowd, just at a slower pace; the visions are not "competing" as much as you think.

    You are not the last word, Donald, on "the way it is," so I think I speak for more than a few of us who would like it if you could take your snooty, snitty, snarky, I'm-important-and-you-don't-have-a-clue judgments and stick them someplace south of your brain, and keep them there for the duration.

    Parent

    Anne (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 05:40:03 PM EST
    If I hadn't read his response, I would have said the same thing.  The statement is demonstrably false.  Obama clearly does not want war.  Mitt does.  

    That's kind of a huge difference.

    Don was right to point it out.  I know you see Obama and Romney as twins or something, but most people don't.

    Parent

    It (5.00 / 3) (#20)
    by lentinel on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 06:05:20 PM EST
    must be enthralling and comforting for you to know what "most people" think.

    I'm more interested in what Anne thinks.

    Parent

    I am sure you do (none / 0) (#43)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Tue Oct 23, 2012 at 09:55:11 AM EST
    I do too.  

    As for what most people think, in an election season, that's kind of relevant.

    Parent

    As if (none / 0) (#45)
    by sj on Tue Oct 23, 2012 at 10:05:26 AM EST
    the way you assign your thoughts to the minds of others had anything to do with what people really think.  

    Parent
    I'm comforted by the record (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by Towanda on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 07:33:57 PM EST
    of Obama's votes, his speeches on war. . . .

    Oh.  Wait.

    Parent

    I"m not (4.25 / 4) (#21)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 06:16:05 PM EST
    sure Mitt wants war. He says he does not but then we have the history of the GOP caving into some demands of the neoconservatives. We also have a history of Obama caving into the GOP. So in all honesty do you really know what you are going to get? And with Hillary gone at the end of this year, do we really know what is going to happen with Obama's foreign policy?

    Parent
    no difference? (4.00 / 3) (#24)
    by ding7777 on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 06:44:21 PM EST
    Many people were saying there was no difference between Bush and Gore - and they were wrong.

    Parent
    Try reading all the words for a change, (5.00 / 2) (#28)
    by Anne on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 07:09:48 PM EST
    not just the ones that allow you to have the argument you want.

    "less daylight between these two candidates," "headed to the same place...just at a slower pace," do not equal "no difference."

    And you seem to have missed the part where I said, "Romney isn't just a little bit worse than Obama, he's exponentially worse," which doesn't equal "no difference," either.

    Read all the words: if you're looking for a difference, that's where you'll find one.

    Parent

    Exactly (3.50 / 2) (#44)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Tue Oct 23, 2012 at 09:57:24 AM EST
    This is what people always say on the far sides of each party.  They are both corporate shills or they are both socialists/commies.

    Fast forward to the middle of the term and people are like "this dude is the worst ever, how did he ever get elected"?

    My response: remember when you said there was no difference in the candidates and spent all of your time talking about that instead of rallying behind the better candidate.  Well that.

    Parent

    Yeah... (5.00 / 4) (#15)
    by lentinel on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 05:24:36 PM EST
    Two very different visions...

    But you're right that this election is not about me or my desires.
    I'm a democrat.

    Parent

    Wouldn't we love to see this campaign ad: (5.00 / 3) (#18)
    by shoephone on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 05:50:54 PM EST
    "Hey U.S. Citizens: It's not about YOU and YOUR NEEDS. It's about ME. Got it? VOTE FOR ME, YOU IDIOTS. OR ELSE."

    Parent
    Who's going to watch the debate? (none / 0) (#6)
    by rdandrea on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 04:45:26 PM EST
    Monday Night Football and game 7 of the NLCS!

    Plus, the Lyin' Ryan tour is in town tonight.

    Besides, I already voted :)

    Parent

    For my money, they could have had three (4.00 / 4) (#12)
    by Anne on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 05:09:20 PM EST
    debates on the economy, social policy and the safety net; I think that's what's of most interest to the most people.  And maybe there would have been more time for some details, or would have highlighted that Romney doesn't have any of them.

    And while Jim Lehrer was constructively absent in the first debate, and Candy Crowley was all about getting her own nose into the debate, Bob Schieffer has the potential for being constructively present, but serving as the straight man for Romney's not-so-funny chickenhawk stylings.

    I'd like to see a debate where there is no moderator, as such.  Let Obama ask Romney whatever he wants to for 30 minutes, then hand it over to Romney to do the same with Obama, then give each man 5 minutes to close, and 5 minutes to rebut the closing.

    That would be too scary for them, so they would never agree to it, but it might get us closer to something resembling a real debate.

    I'm kind of tired of the current mostly-kabuki of Battling Bumper Stickers, to tell you the truth.

    Parent

    The latest Romney ad has proved ... (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 04:46:45 PM EST
    ... too much to swallow for even the Washington Post's Glenn Kessler (Class of 1977, Our Lady of False Equivalency High School, Cincinnati, OH), who dismissed it as "[a] 'greatest hits' of misleading Romney claims" and gave it four Pinocchios.

    SO! glad I don't have to see (none / 0) (#8)
    by nycstray on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 04:52:37 PM EST
    these ads!

    Parent
    You should read all of the whiny comments (none / 0) (#9)
    by Angel on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 05:03:46 PM EST
    from the Romnesians.

    Parent
    As with the first debate, (5.00 / 3) (#22)
    by KeysDan on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 06:29:12 PM EST
    Romney may bring a surprise.  Rather than bombs, he may bring his Etch-a-sketch.  No one is more for peaceful solutions to world problems than Romney, even though it may, of course, have to be peace through war.  His first bounce on Libya went over the fence and into the woods, but he could try another tact--such as Obama evading the War Powers Act (no hostilities, according to Harold Koh), something the transparent Mitt would never do.  And, of course, his peaceful approach in Syria would be very different, no troops on the ground, but no elucidations either.   President Obama needs to be prepared for the any number of Mitts who may show up tonight and at different times tonight.

    Here's the thing (5.00 / 3) (#26)
    by NYShooter on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 06:57:40 PM EST
    Go back a couple of months to the Republican Freak show. With rare exception everyone was giggly with the thought of a Romney victory in the Primary equating to an Obama blowout in the General.

    Remember, please, please, let Romney win?

    And, here we are; Obama hanging by a fingernail.

    Fairly, or unfairly, the reality is that Obama has managed to discourage so many Democrats while, simultaneously, and in spite of his submission to Republican bullying, the R's hate him more now than ever.

    His "reaching out" to Republicans has been counter productive, and only heightened their rage. And, his condescending, back of the hand treatment to conventional Democrats has made voting for him more of a chore than a positive desire.

    It didn't have to be this way; many, many good people tried to show him the way. And now, here we are, a "flip a coin" election. Instead of it being an election for Obama to lose, it's an election that Romney can win. All he has to do is to give them a reason, however slight, and we'll be talking about President elect-Romney.

    Like I said, it didn't have to be.

    Well (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 07:46:08 PM EST
    I was not one of those saying please let Romney win. I was one of the ones that said Romney was going to be the GOP's only shot at winning because Newt, Santorum and the rest of the clown posse would go down in flames.

    But in all honesty unless you thought the whole PPUS thing was just a political ploy you had to see this coming. It was as plain as the nose on your face to me.

    Parent

    well (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Oct 23, 2012 at 06:57:54 PM EST
    if Romney wins it's going to be because of things like this. Today my husband got called in and told that the company was "reorganizing" and guess what? My husband ended up with a 33% pay cut. What was tight and a struggle before has now turned into a full blown disaster. Don't know where we're going to be able to live but one thing is for sure we can't stay in the house we're in now.

    Oh, my goodness (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by NYShooter on Tue Oct 23, 2012 at 10:07:16 PM EST
    I'm so sorry, Ga.

    As a businessman, if there's anything I can do, or if you would like some advice, or talk about....anything, please speak up.

    I know, I've been there, scary, scary times.
    Anyway, talking it out really does help.

    Again, anything I can do......

    Parent

    Thanks (none / 0) (#49)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Oct 24, 2012 at 05:30:09 AM EST
    but really the only thing that is going to help right now is for someone to come up with a job that pays more. It seems like every year we end up taking  more and more pay cuts.

    Parent
    Oh no (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by sj on Wed Oct 24, 2012 at 10:21:38 AM EST
    What a disaster!  I don't even know what to say to that.

    Parent
    Terrible news. Supportive thoughts (none / 0) (#48)
    by oculus on Tue Oct 23, 2012 at 10:15:17 PM EST
    winging your way.  

    Parent
    Thanks (none / 0) (#50)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Oct 24, 2012 at 05:30:23 AM EST


    Parent
    Russell Means, a co-founder (4.00 / 3) (#29)
    by Peter G on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 07:28:43 PM EST
    of the American Indian Movement, co-leader of the Wounded Knee action in the '70s that led to a legendary confrontation with the FBI and a long political trial (ending with a dismissal on account of government misconduct), proponent of Native culture, later a movie actor (voice of Powhatan in Disney's Pocahontas) and Libertarian activist, has died at age 72.

    "situation that has come up".... (none / 0) (#1)
    by magster on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 03:52:40 PM EST
    i.e.: poor college football prognostication and leg breaking loan sharks.

    Exactly my first thought. (none / 0) (#3)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 04:35:49 PM EST
    Although I figured it would be broken knee caps.

    On a lighter note, Colorado wildlife photos.

    Parent

    I'll see your Colorado wildlife photos, and ... (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 05:19:27 PM EST
    ... raise you a Big Island volcano video.

    Parent
    I'm not one who believes in omens, per se, ... (none / 0) (#2)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 04:31:27 PM EST
    ... but a boy can always dream, can't he?

    Probably all torn up over (none / 0) (#4)
    by observed on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 04:41:32 PM EST
    the Lance Armstrong news.
    Who will win? (none / 0) (#11)
    by CoralGables on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 05:06:43 PM EST
    Game 7? MNF?, Presidential Debate? Hell no. In a brief respite from all of the above we are down to the final 8 on DWTS tonight. Now that Bristol has left the building, there is really only one other non-dancer when compared to the remaining field and she will be gone this week or next.

    Current odds to win it all based on CG's prognostications after watching only one week:

    Shawn Johnson 2-1 (cuteness and mad skills overcomes short legs)
    Gilles Marini 5-2 (can bare chest beat Shawn's smile)
    Apolo Ohno 4-1 (may just be warming up)
    Melissa Rycroft 5-1 (one of the best but without the fan base)
    Kelly Monaco 8-1 (should hang around a few more weeks)
    Emmitt Smith 10-1 (too much gray against these kids)
    Sabrina Bryan 25-1 (this cheetah's not quick enough on her feet)
    Kirstie Alley 50-1 (ummm no)

    Sorry but comparing DWTS to ... (none / 0) (#17)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 05:48:19 PM EST
    ... a winner-take-all Game 7 championship baseball game is pure and unadulterated sacrilege.
    >:-O

    Parent
    Okay... (none / 0) (#19)
    by CoralGables on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 06:00:24 PM EST
    Evaluating Game 7.

    Defending champ Cards have the best record in major league history in game 7 winner take all. By comparison, the Giants have never won a game 7 winner take all in their history.

    In a quirk of fate however, the Giants have won a game 7 in a World Series in a best of 7 but didn't win the Series. Can you name the Series, who won, and how did that happen?

    Back to more important things. The Giants are at home in mid 50 drizzly weather like the old days at The Stick. Also, the Giants have now won five consecutive elimination games in the post season.

    Take the Giants, Obama, Shawn Johnson, and the Bears tonight.

    Parent

    The Kiss of Death (none / 0) (#23)
    by NYShooter on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 06:34:19 PM EST
    "the Giants have now won five consecutive elimination games in the post season."

    Cards!

    Bet the ranch.

    Parent

    It will certainly be an interesting, and (none / 0) (#25)
    by caseyOR on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 06:48:42 PM EST
    in some cases, entertaining, evening. I am so glad I finally went out and bought a popcorn popper.

    That's right, I went all 8 years of GWB and four years of Obama in a popcorn desert. Not anymore. I am now the proud owner of Presto Poplight Hot Air Popper, and two pounds of popcorn.

    I'm ready. No matter who wins the debate tonight and the election next month, it's out of my control (and yours, too). So, I plan to sit back, eat popcorn and, probably, cry for the foreseeable future. That is until the Grand Bargain cuts SS and I can longer afford to buy popcorn.

    Oh and GO, BEARS!!! and GO, GIANTS!!! GO, SHAWN!!! and rounding out my picks because he is the candidate who is not f*cking insane, GO, OBAMA!

    Parent

    Well (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by CoralGables on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 07:06:23 PM EST
    it's out of my control (and yours, too)

    Not out of my control yet. I just volunteered today at the Obama office to drive voters to the polls for the 8 days of early voting, and on election day too if anyone needs help. Early voting starts here in Florida on Saturday. I'm just warming up.

    Parent

    because of absentee early voting (5.00 / 3) (#31)
    by athyrio on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 07:40:21 PM EST
    I voted today along with my hubby...for the first time ever, we voted a straight democratic ticket as the alternative is unthinkable to us (senior citizens)...glad we already voted at least...and all dems in our state of Montana as well as Obama got our two votes...

    Parent
    My state is not a swing state, and mail-in (none / 0) (#33)
    by caseyOR on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 07:52:14 PM EST
    ballots have already been delivered to people's homes. So, by this time tomorrow I most likely will have voted.

    You have work to do. And good on you for stepping up. I, on the other hand, need to find a postage stamp. ;-)

    Parent

    I think those mail-in ballots should (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by Anne on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 07:54:11 PM EST
    be postage-paid.

    Parent
    But they're not. To be fair, though, the state (none / 0) (#35)
    by caseyOR on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:07:30 PM EST
    has placed ballot drop boxes all over the place. Voters can drop off postage-free ballots at public libraries, banks, government offices, public squares, some fast food parking lots, all kinds of places.

    Voters can hand deliver their ballots to their county election office. Everyone just has to be sure the election offices receive the ballots by 8 PM on election day.

    Parent

    casey (none / 0) (#37)
    by fishcamp on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:51:39 PM EST
    on which side of the Willamette River do you live?

    Parent
    The east side. n/t (none / 0) (#38)
    by caseyOR on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:52:57 PM EST


    Parent
    As someone near the Atlantic (none / 0) (#42)
    by CoralGables on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 10:15:19 PM EST
    It's hard for me to admit this, but watching the sunrise over the river from Tom McCall Waterfront Park on a chilly morning was spectacular.

    Parent
    Same here in WA (none / 0) (#39)
    by shoephone on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:55:37 PM EST
    And even though I will drop in the free drop-box, not everyone will. The ballots definitely should be postage-free.

    Parent
    Etch a Sketch (none / 0) (#36)
    by CoralGables on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:10:09 PM EST
    is out in full force early

    CBS instant poll Obama 53% Romney 23% (none / 0) (#40)
    by ruffian on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:57:32 PM EST
    according to Cenk Uygar

    ruffian, Giants lead 8-0 in the 7th. (none / 0) (#41)
    by caseyOR on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 10:00:15 PM EST
    And the Bears are ahead of Detroit 13-0 with 3 minutes left in the 3rd.

    This just might be a good sports night for me.

    Parent

    Monday Afternoon Open Thread | 51 comments (51 topical)

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