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Final Debate Live Thread

The third and final debate is about to begin. The New York Times says voters don't really care about foreign policy, they are looking for leadership qualities.

In polls this year, voters have practically screamed at the top of their lungs how little they care about foreign policy. In recent polls of three battleground states, Colorado, Virginia and Wisconsin, fewer than 10 percent of voters in each state said national security was the most important issue to them, ranking below the economy, deficit and health care.

On NBC just now, in between the Mitt Romney ads tonight, there was a great ad in support of Amendment 64 and the legalization of marijuana.

And here we go, updates below.

I bet thatís the first time Obama has pulled out his own chair in four years.

First question Libya. Mitt avoided talking about Libya and focused on Muslims and extremism. Obama was much stronger.

Obama is in full attack mode. He says Mitt is your father's oldsmobile (my words) on foreign policy, social policies and economic policies.

Another dig at Romney: Obama says Romney hasn't been in a position to execute foreign policy. Then he says Romney has been wrong on foreign policy -- and confusing and he sends mixed messages to the troops.

Obama: We don't need wrong and reckless leadership.

Romney is keeping his cool but he seems all over the map to me.

Update: Obama: America has to stand with democracy.

Obama has said twice now we have to make sure the women are treated equally.

Mitt cares what the president of Iran says about our economy. All of a sudden he's a champion of human rights.

Mitt: stay on topic. He's asked about how he sees America's leadership role in the world, and he talks about jobs.

Update:

Obama takes a stab at Dick Cheney.

So much for foreign policy. Romney goes back to the economy. Now heís repeating his five economic steps. Obama takes the bait and starts talking about the economy. Why doesn't Bob step in and put them back on foreign policy? Romney plays to Latinos -- he now supports language opportunities.

I'm bored. I'm so sick of Romney and the economy. He's a one trick pony.

Finally, Bob gets them back on track. And Romney still goes back to the balanced budget. He'd get rid of Obamacare. He informs us Medicaid is a program for the poor. Obama is repeating his points from the last debate. He needs to move forward and point out Romney is avoiding the topic of foreign policy because he knows nothing about it.

Update: Obama mocks Mitt's old-fashioned policies and the audience laughs. Then he tells Mitt,

"We visited the website quite a bit and it still doesn't work. "

The audience laughs out loud. Obama is winning so far.

Update: Romney goes off the deep end. Obama went on an "apology tour" around the world criticizing America? Obama says that's the biggest whopper Romney has told so far. Romney tries to explain and Obama kills him with it.

Romney's back to Iran is four years closer to a nuclear bomb. He tells the moderator he won't answer a hypothetical question on Israel. Now who's trashing America? Romney says our influence is receding.

Obama lists Romney's flip-flops. He has effectively pointed out several times that Romney is now endorsing his policies.

Obama is running away with this debate, leaving Romney in the dust.

Update: Wow, Bob S. just slapped Romney when he tried his "but let me respond" trick. Good for him. Romney backed down.

Almost over.

< Monday Afternoon Open Thread | Post- Final Debate Thread >
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  • Display: Sort:
    Mitt doesn't have a clue. (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by Anne on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:10:26 PM EST
    He's so short on details - how we do the things he says we need to do.

    Master of the obvious, but not a clue on how to do it.

    Obama's feisty (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by Dr Molly on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:11:49 PM EST


    "The 1980's are now calling...for their (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by Anne on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:12:21 PM EST
    foreign policy back."

    Great line - I think Mitt's toast on foreign policy; Obama's showing us all the Etch-a-Sketch drawings and it ain't pretty.

    I hate those split screens (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by kmblue on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:13:04 PM EST
    Obama looks pissed
    Romney is so awful

    I am so sick and tired of politicians (5.00 / 4) (#13)
    by caseyOR on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:13:28 PM EST
    who proclaim the need for gender equality in Muslim countries, but have no interest in really pushing for equality in all nations (like among our allies) and little interest in implementing gender equality here at home.

    And, yes, I know that women in Afghanistan and Pakistan and other nations have considerably less freedom of movement and education etc., than do women in the U.S. That does not negate my point.

    I agree. (5.00 / 3) (#20)
    by Towanda on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:17:46 PM EST
    And it angers me, too, that people who want to send us back to the previous century think that they can sound all sensitive by talking about progress for women elsewhere.  Including some of the 150-plus countries that have had women leaders at the top, that have more women in their legislatures and judiciaries. . . .

    Parent
    f*ck (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by kmblue on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:13:56 PM EST
    romney lying again...and again
    and running over Bob..Bob stand up!

    Thank you, Jeralyn (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by Towanda on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:15:16 PM EST
    for being with us to put up this thread tonight -- and for moderating this site.

    (I also enjoy on another site where the mods have given up going after a very savvy troll, and it's sad to see the impact, the impossibility of debate discussion there tonight.)

    km, I'm nervous, too . . . no, wait, after sounding reasonable at first, Romney just lost his cool.

    Oh oh, Obama just started with the stuttering.  It's too soon to be tired and stuttering.  Oh, good, he got a grip and is back to sounding solid.  (The stuttering makes him sound tentative, not good.)

    Yeah, J, Towanda's right. Thank you. (5.00 / 2) (#24)
    by caseyOR on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:20:35 PM EST
    Sometimes things get a little testy here, but by and large TL is the sanest, most rational, most civil political site that I have very commented at. I find that by and large I like the people who make up the TL community.

    The sports commenting, on the other hand, can get a little out there. :-)

    Parent

    Mitt's frozen smile is eerie (5.00 / 3) (#17)
    by ruffian on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:15:33 PM EST


    Romney's patronizing smirk. Yuck. (5.00 / 4) (#18)
    by Dr Molly on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:16:13 PM EST


    I think what I like best, so far, is that (5.00 / 2) (#22)
    by Anne on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:19:07 PM EST
    Obama's not looking down, not making notes - he's coming across very presidential, very comfortable, and yet dismissive of Romney's simplistic ideas for how we're going to fix problems that have existed for centuries.

    Romney just makes me want to scream.

    Parent

    Romney is so simplistic (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by ruffian on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:25:34 PM EST
    Just the same talking points we've heard for years with no thought behind them. I'm sure they sound great on Fox, but nowhere else.

    Parent
    Did you see (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:27:21 PM EST
    the piece Rachel Maddow did the other day about the conservative bubble? I'm usually not a big fan of hers but that piece was great.

    Parent
    And that permanent smirk of Romney's. Grrr! (4.33 / 3) (#35)
    by caseyOR on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:27:36 PM EST
    I wonder how many people over the years have wanted to wipe that smirk right of his face. I know I'd like a shot at it.

    Parent
    It's (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:28:42 PM EST
    the George W. Bush smirk. I remember him even not trying to smirk.

    Parent
    YES (none / 0) (#56)
    by lilburro on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:38:10 PM EST
    I think that everytime he launches into his "simple" or "5 point" plan.  This must poll well with someone, but who?  If it were that easy to be energy independent we would be.  Who buys this crap?

    Parent
    Romney seems to be playing the role ... (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:22:16 PM EST
    ... of Little Sir Echo, parroting the Obama administration's policy on the current turmoil in Syria.

    Bob is screwing up (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by kmblue on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:22:28 PM EST
    this debate--this is not an interview

    when Obama is (5.00 / 3) (#33)
    by ZtoA on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:27:13 PM EST
    good he is really good. And he has been good so far tonite. Turning Romney's flip flopping words against him really works.

    Sometimes I feel like Romney isq (5.00 / 3) (#42)
    by Anne on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:31:22 PM EST
    reading off a list of the inventory of bumper stickers and t-shirts at Cafe Press.

    It's not a foreign policy: it's buzzwords.

    Agreed (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by CoralGables on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:33:22 PM EST
    he sounds like someone that had a host a facts drilled into his head without the knowledge of knowing how to spew them back out.

    Parent
    If Obama's smart, he's going to resist (5.00 / 2) (#44)
    by Anne on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:33:07 PM EST
    Romney moving the debate over to the economy; Obama needs to keep him on the ropes.

    Yup- say Cheney a few more times (5.00 / 2) (#47)
    by ruffian on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:34:13 PM EST
    So glad this is the last debate (5.00 / 2) (#49)
    by ruffian on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:35:59 PM EST
    I cannot look at Romney anymore. Or listen to him.

    If Romney's so f-ing smart, and knows (5.00 / 5) (#51)
    by Anne on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:36:38 PM EST
    what it takes to create 12 million jobs and make the economy boom, why the hell hasn't he shared these brilliant insights with his Republican cohorts and America until now?

    Because he - and they - care more about their own political fortune than they do the well-being of those of us who live and die by what's going on in the economy.

    We'll just leave aside for the moment that all he ever says is he knows what to do, but never says how it's actually going to happen.

    We will never be Greece. We control our (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by caseyOR on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:36:46 PM EST
    own currency. Now, the Grand Bargain and other austerity programs may simulate the destruction of the lives of most Greeks, but that will be because our leaders choose to destroy us, not because the economy demands it.

    Well, so much for ... (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:37:04 PM EST
    ... the debate on foreign policy.

    Seriously, Shieffer has lost control, it's not an (5.00 / 2) (#59)
    by Dr Molly on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:39:19 PM EST
    economy debate

    Parent
    obama is being strong (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by kmblue on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:37:36 PM EST
    romney seems to be repeating himself
    Bob keeps giving him more chances than Obama

    states run programs (5.00 / 2) (#62)
    by kmblue on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:40:02 PM EST
    better?  Ha ha

    Good interjection by Obama to ... (5.00 / 5) (#63)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:40:15 PM EST
    ... point out that the educational achievements in Massachusetts being touted by Romney were actually acheived a full decade prior to his term in office.

    OMG - the one thing America cannot (5.00 / 2) (#64)
    by Anne on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:40:23 PM EST
    afford is to have this bloviating elitist deciding to cut programs he doesn't think are necessary.

    And he's running all over the moderator and Obama.

    Obama needs to tell Romney to STFU.

    Sure the states can run Medicaid. Many have (5.00 / 2) (#65)
    by caseyOR on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:40:39 PM EST
    proven their fiscal integrity by simply tossing poor people off the Medicaid roles. That's certainly one way to save money.

    Not a game of Battleship (5.00 / 3) (#70)
    by Peter G on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:44:31 PM EST
    excellent line

    "We also have fewer horses and (5.00 / 3) (#74)
    by Anne on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:44:55 PM EST
    bayonets...we have these things called aircraft carriers..."

    That was a good moment for Obama.

    I'm impressed he went there! (none / 0) (#79)
    by lilburro on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:46:55 PM EST
    When Romney said that I said outloud, GEE, COULD IT BE WE DON'T FIGHT WARS ON THE SEA ANYMORE??? and started imagining our quaint Romneycraft.  And then he said that.  Ha!  

    Parent
    Shieffer is horrible. (5.00 / 2) (#77)
    by ruffian on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:46:06 PM EST
    Hate his Sunday show, hate his debate moderating.

    Seriously...I think Charlie Pierce referred (none / 0) (#88)
    by Anne on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:50:36 PM EST
    to him as "former Van Buren Administration State Department correspondent Bob Schieffer," and Schieffer's really living up to that.

    He also called it on the "smallest Navy since 1918."

    I heart Charlie!

    Parent

    Charlie comes up with a new one of those lines (none / 0) (#121)
    by ruffian on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:01:57 PM EST
    about Schieffer every week. They are all so funny.

    Parent
    ... the U.S. Navy has fewer ships than at any time since 1917.

    Good for Obama to unload a wholly appropriate broadside on him: "We also have fewer horses and bayonets [than in 1917]."

    Obama gives really good answer (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by shoephone on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:49:39 PM EST
    on Israel and Iran.

    Romney making me ill with his over the top militarism and arrogance. It's clear he's folling the neocon playbook.

    HE wants to tighten sanctions further. To my knowledge, the sanctions are about as tight as they've ever been. Romney's just fluffing Israel.

    horse remark (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by kmblue on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:51:32 PM EST
    the bite of the night so far

    Ooh, good one from Obama (5.00 / 2) (#91)
    by shoephone on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:51:39 PM EST
    "You agreed with me on everything, you just figured if you said it louder it would sound stronger.."

    I think Obama is stronger in this 3rd debate (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by coigue on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:55:55 PM EST
    and Romney looks weak and flippy floppy. He is starting to get stronger, but I don't think it's enough.

    "Nothing Mr. Romney is saying is true" Great first sentence for his response.

    Oh slam. Obama sounds a bit outraged now....but measured and cool at the same time.

    Romney reminds me of ... (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:56:37 PM EST
    ... the "father" anomatronic figure who graced the old General Electric exhibit at Disneyland, "G.E.'s Carousel of Progress."

    That's it. I was trying to place it. (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by ruffian on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:57:46 PM EST
    I wish either or both of these men could (5.00 / 2) (#104)
    by Anne on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:56:40 PM EST
    acknowledge that these "crippling sanctions" aren't just affecting the Iranian political leadership - they are inflicting serious hardship on ordinary Iranian citizens who have no bone to pick with the US or the ability to do anything about it.

    That '4 yrs closer' like is the one that (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by ruffian on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:57:13 PM EST
    gets me yelling at the TV. Soooo stupid.

    Not "my five point plan"? (5.00 / 1) (#122)
    by Dr Molly on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:02:19 PM EST
    Who's going to be credible? (5.00 / 2) (#110)
    by kmblue on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:59:03 PM EST
    stood on the right side of history  yeesss!

    Yes! That was a great answer. (none / 0) (#117)
    by ruffian on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:00:46 PM EST
    I wish Obama could get in a dig (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by Anne on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:59:55 PM EST
    about all the stupid, insulting things Mitt said on his "Olympics" tour - "if you can't even visit our allies without insulting them, I don't have even a clue how you'd be able to deal with our enemies" is something I'd like Obama to get in.

    It seemed like he was going there but then did (none / 0) (#139)
    by ruffian on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:10:42 PM EST
    not pull the trigger.

    Parent
    if Romney says (5.00 / 1) (#115)
    by kmblue on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:00:21 PM EST
    rising tide one more time, I'll scream

    He keeps repeating the same stuff

    democrat senators (5.00 / 4) (#119)
    by kmblue on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:01:44 PM EST
    democrat is a perjoritive, instead of democratic

    I think a lot of people caught that too (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by shoephone on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:02:19 PM EST
    Surprise, Mitt endorses Obama's Afghan... (5.00 / 1) (#128)
    by magster on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:05:35 PM EST
    timeline. I think Obama is killing Mitt tonight. I'm biased, but that's what it seems like to me.

    I think it is very hard to beat a sitting (5.00 / 1) (#133)
    by ruffian on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:08:40 PM EST
    president in a foreign policy debate. Romney did his best to keep it about the economy, but it didn't work for long.

    Parent
    I just flipped over to the debate (none / 0) (#134)
    by nycstray on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:09:08 PM EST
    at the beginning of the question, and it sure did sound like he said what O is doing is working . . . heh.

    back to baseball!

    Parent

    I think he is too (none / 0) (#154)
    by lilburro on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:16:16 PM EST
    and I think Obama will be seen as winning this debate.  I am wondering if Romney is just trying to demonstrate competency (not that he is) with reciting some of these facts.  But he's not willing to wholly endorse Obama's FP and just say he'll be different domestically.  His FP campaign strategy and policy is totally fuzzy to me.  Nothing new there, though.

    Parent
    Romney stammering (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by kmblue on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:05:35 PM EST
    oh good

    Wolf Blitzer will declare this debate a draw! (5.00 / 2) (#131)
    by Belswyn on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:07:29 PM EST

    My prediction.

    I'd give you a "5" (none / 0) (#135)
    by magster on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:09:19 PM EST
    but then your comment would be promoted higher and no one would see it.

    Parent
    nation building here at home! (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by kmblue on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:08:08 PM EST
    yeeees

    I am really impressed (5.00 / 2) (#137)
    by coigue on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:09:55 PM EST
    by the depth of knowledge Obama is showing. Isn't it nice to have someone thoughtful in the Oval Office for once?

    Romney (5.00 / 2) (#138)
    by CoralGables on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:10:08 PM EST
    has taken flipflop to an entire new level. He's gone fullbackflipflop.

    Oh, Bob, Bob, Bob! (5.00 / 3) (#145)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:12:32 PM EST
    "Obama bin Laden"? Really?

    If this series of debates proved only one thing, it's the sheer folly of placing old, easily befuddled white men in the position of debate moderator.

    You mean, you haven't been (none / 0) (#150)
    by Anne on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:14:29 PM EST
    enjoyimg the moderating stylings of "former Van Buren Administration State Department correspondent Bob Schieffer," as Charlie Pierce referred to him?

    Parent
    Oh, c'mon! He couldn't have been that, ... (none / 0) (#161)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:20:04 PM EST
    ... when I have it on good authority that Schieffer was assigned to the reporter pool covering the campaign of Gen. William Henry Harrison, the Whig Party's candidate for president and Van Buren's opponent in the 1840 election.

    Parent
    Say "electing Mitt Romney to (5.00 / 1) (#152)
    by Anne on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:15:41 PM EST
    the presidency!"  That's the greatest threat to national security!

    Maybe if Romney and Bain hadn't outsourced (5.00 / 1) (#162)
    by caseyOR on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:21:05 PM EST
    all those jobs to China, we wouldn't be importing so much from China.

    Obama just heard you (none / 0) (#164)
    by shoephone on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:21:40 PM EST
    I think the thought bubble over (5.00 / 1) (#163)
    by Anne on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:21:21 PM EST
    Obama's head has to be, "I can't believe I have to sit here with this a-hole and pretend we're on the same level.  And, is Schieffer's entire shtik going to be the hypothetical?  Waiting for 'what if Eleanor Roosevelt could fly." *

    *old SNL reference for those who don't know.

    Oh. man, Obama's killing him on China, (5.00 / 1) (#167)
    by Anne on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:22:27 PM EST
    Romney's sweating more, and his smirk is looking less sincere.

    How in the world can this election be this close? (5.00 / 5) (#169)
    by Dr Molly on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:24:34 PM EST


    I ask myself this question every day. (5.00 / 1) (#172)
    by lilburro on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:25:20 PM EST
    "I like American cars... (5.00 / 1) (#170)
    by shoephone on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:24:43 PM EST
    I've got 30 Cadillacs, and each has its own elevator."

    Epic Detroit implosion (5.00 / 1) (#171)
    by lilburro on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:24:55 PM EST
    what the hell is Romney doing???

    OMG (5.00 / 1) (#176)
    by lilburro on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:26:21 PM EST
    it's like he's reading a ransom note made up of Fox News headlines as fast as he can AND he throws in his favorite line, "I'm still speaking."

    Parent
    Heaven only knows. (5.00 / 1) (#183)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:29:24 PM EST
    Obama wins this debate, hands down. Loved the smackdown when Romney tried to interrupt -- "No, Governor, I'm NOT wrong!"

    Parent
    I love teachers (5.00 / 1) (#184)
    by kmblue on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:29:38 PM EST
    but I want the states to hire them

    Romney sounds nuts right now. (5.00 / 1) (#186)
    by lilburro on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:29:48 PM EST
    It sounds like the robot is malfunctioning.  

    And somewhere a polar bear is weeping (5.00 / 1) (#188)
    by ruffian on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:30:51 PM EST


    Did he say "take this country back"? (5.00 / 1) (#194)
    by Peter G on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:33:59 PM EST
    Tea Party dog whistle

    Listened to most of it on the radio (5.00 / 2) (#198)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:35:46 PM EST
    and watched the last 20 minutes or so.

    I thought Obama was good, but when I watched on TV, one thoguht crossed my mind - Kennedy-Nixon.

    Obama looked great.

    Romney looked terrible.

    It was incredible to me.

    I hear Romney's flop sweat is trending on twitter (none / 0) (#205)
    by ruffian on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:39:21 PM EST
    interesting huh? (none / 0) (#220)
    by ZtoA on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 10:18:19 PM EST
    visual staging and presentation.

    Parent
    Best line? (5.00 / 1) (#200)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:36:53 PM EST
    My nominee has to be Obama's retort:

    "You mention the Navy, and how we have fewer ships than 1916. We also have fewer horses and bayonets, because the nature of our military has changed."


    Obama WIPED the floor with Willard! (5.00 / 1) (#202)
    by Angel on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:38:22 PM EST


    You'll be happy to know (5.00 / 1) (#203)
    by shoephone on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:38:35 PM EST
    that David Brooks thinks Mitt "just looked more presidential."

    Dog whistle....

    Well, it is David Brooks...he probably (none / 0) (#206)
    by Anne on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:39:46 PM EST
    says the same thing to his reflection in the mirror every night before he goes to bed.

    Parent
    oy.... (none / 0) (#209)
    by shoephone on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:40:07 PM EST
    An Observation (5.00 / 3) (#204)
    by CoralGables on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:39:13 PM EST
    The Romney grandchildren were all introduced to President Obama...I assume so they'll always be able to say they met a President.

    I thought the same thing (5.00 / 1) (#208)
    by ruffian on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:39:49 PM EST
    LOL (none / 0) (#207)
    by shoephone on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:39:46 PM EST
    I wonder if any of them said, "are you the (none / 0) (#212)
    by Anne on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:41:40 PM EST
    man my daddy/uncle wants to take a swing at?"

    Parent
    Tagg tweeted that Mitt won (5.00 / 2) (#213)
    by ruffian on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:48:17 PM EST
    I guess that settles it

    Sometimes you're the windshield... (5.00 / 1) (#216)
    by shoephone on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:53:48 PM EST
    sometimes you're the bug.

    Please go read the tweets at (5.00 / 1) (#218)
    by Anne on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 10:01:33 PM EST
    #debates - some of them are hilarious.

    Here's"Big Bird:"

    Big Bird‏@BlGBlRD

     When Mitt Romney "loves" something, he either fires them, or puts them on the roof of his car. #lynndebate #debates



    Since Benghazi will certainly come up (none / 0) (#1)
    by caseyOR on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:03:15 PM EST
    Mitt is not touching Benghazi with a ten ft pole (none / 0) (#11)
    by ruffian on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:12:54 PM EST
    I am so (none / 0) (#2)
    by kmblue on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:03:37 PM EST
    nervous.

    starting (none / 0) (#3)
    by kmblue on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:04:18 PM EST
    with Bengazi (sp)  shut up Bob

    a complete change mitt? (none / 0) (#4)
    by kmblue on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:05:21 PM EST
    good luck with that

    mitt seems nervous (none / 0) (#5)
    by kmblue on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:06:00 PM EST
    first answer

    okay I'm talking to myself (none / 0) (#6)
    by kmblue on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:06:23 PM EST
    bye

    I guess Mitt's not going to answer (none / 0) (#7)
    by Anne on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:07:01 PM EST
    that first question - let's see if Obama does better.

    Jump in Obama (none / 0) (#15)
    by kmblue on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:14:29 PM EST
    fight fight fight

    obama (none / 0) (#19)
    by kmblue on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:17:14 PM EST
    keeps getting plusses on the CNN line

    Leading question much, Schieffer? (none / 0) (#21)
    by ruffian on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:17:58 PM EST
    I'm glad they are just using his questions as general guidelines.

    Obama is thinking (none / 0) (#23)
    by ruffian on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:20:09 PM EST
    Don't look down don't look down don't look down

    don't look contemptuous Obama (none / 0) (#25)
    by kmblue on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:21:14 PM EST
    please

    what's up (none / 0) (#28)
    by kmblue on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:24:14 PM EST
    with providing arms to Syria?

    km (none / 0) (#29)
    by Amiss on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:24:38 PM EST
    I don't comment much because I am so slow and everyone is doing a fantastic job here!

    nice of you to say (none / 0) (#30)
    by kmblue on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:25:33 PM EST
    but I'm afraid I'm a nervous blabbermouth

    Parent
    romney (none / 0) (#32)
    by kmblue on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:26:41 PM EST
    came within  a inch of rolling his eyes (he raised eyebrows and grinned)

    Romney is not really distinguishing his ... (none / 0) (#36)
    by magster on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:28:35 PM EST
    ... position from Obama's. Doesn't make him wrong, but it begs the question of "why change?".

    Well (none / 0) (#39)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:30:32 PM EST
    I think Romney is trying to sell change because of the economy. Actually not distinguishing himself from Obama probably helps him. I mean anything that keeps him from sounding like a Bush/Cheney clone has to be a positive for him.

    Parent
    We only have 42 allies? (none / 0) (#38)
    by ruffian on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:28:58 PM EST


    i wondered about that, too, ruffian. (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by caseyOR on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:31:22 PM EST
    Is there an official list of our allies somewhere? Does it change on a day-to-day or issue-by-issue basis?

    Who keeps track of how many allies we have? Who decides what nations or allies and what nations are not?

    Parent

    ha, that got me too. exactly 42! (none / 0) (#40)
    by Dr Molly on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:31:05 PM EST
    Odd (none / 0) (#41)
    by ZtoA on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:31:14 PM EST
    on CNN Obama's image is larger than Romney's. And focused differently. When they could walk around Romney creeped me out even more than usual - and that's a lot.

    Romney's sweating too... (none / 0) (#46)
    by magster on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:34:10 PM EST
    Romney's (none / 0) (#48)
    by kmblue on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:35:15 PM EST
    5 pt plan ugh

    Thanks to all of you live bloggers (none / 0) (#50)
    by shoephone on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:36:26 PM EST
    I can check in to see what's up with the debate. (I got bored after the first 20 minutes, and now I'm watching the Giants cream the Cards. Already 7-0 in the 3rd inning!)

    Great game (none / 0) (#112)
    by cpresley on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:59:35 PM EST
    Thanks to TL we can watch the game and follow the debate on line. I think the game is much better:).

    Parent
    The state that dares not say its name (none / 0) (#54)
    by ruffian on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:37:25 PM EST


    10 years (none / 0) (#57)
    by kmblue on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:38:53 PM EST
    before you took office!  Another question for Romney why?

    Calling CST! Romney is talking (none / 0) (#58)
    by caseyOR on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:38:57 PM EST
    about how much he helped the Commonwealth succeed when he was governor.

    CST, please, weigh in here. Did mitt help or harm Massachusetts?

    to my knowledge (5.00 / 2) (#87)
    by CST on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:50:28 PM EST
    Nothing changed about our foreign policy while he was gov :)

    Honestly those were the years I was gone.  You could say he was so bad he ran me out of town!  I do know our education record was pretty darn good before he got there, the economy did poorly while he was there - you could say it was due to external factors, but he didn't fix it - and what may be important to only me, the city was much more violent during the summer for youth due to a summer jobs funding shortage.

    Parent

    Get rid of Obamacare from day one (none / 0) (#60)
    by kmblue on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:39:33 PM EST
    line is sinking

    We keep Medicaid (none / 0) (#61)
    by ruffian on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:39:51 PM EST
    By giving it away.

    obama getting high approval now (none / 0) (#66)
    by kmblue on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:42:10 PM EST
    cnn lines

    Honestly, can mitt not say the word Massachusetts? (none / 0) (#67)
    by ruffian on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:42:46 PM EST


    Maybe he can't remember which (5.00 / 2) (#69)
    by Anne on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:43:50 PM EST
    state it is he was allegedly a resident of.

    Parent
    I'm a business man! (none / 0) (#68)
    by kmblue on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:42:49 PM EST
    and I'm right because i say i am

    Boom! Great lines about the ships.ha! (none / 0) (#71)
    by ruffian on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:44:40 PM EST


    hahahaha good one Barack. Game of Battleship! (none / 0) (#72)
    by Dr Molly on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:44:45 PM EST


    Yeah! (none / 0) (#93)
    by ZtoA on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:52:14 PM EST
    totally great.

    Parent
    fewer horses! (none / 0) (#73)
    by kmblue on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:44:49 PM EST
    a game of battleship!  I love it--we have these things called aircraft carriers

    Ooh, I kind of like snarky Obama. (none / 0) (#75)
    by caseyOR on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:45:27 PM EST
    Pointing out that we no longer go to war atop horses. And telling Mitt about those new-fangled aircraft carriers.

    Take that, smirky Mitt.

    mitt (none / 0) (#76)
    by kmblue on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:45:56 PM EST
    rolling his eyes again

    big bump for obama (none / 0) (#78)
    by kmblue on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:46:55 PM EST
    on CNN lines

    when I'm president (none / 0) (#81)
    by kmblue on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:48:13 PM EST
    hope Romney is dreaming

    Mitt echoes Obama again... (none / 0) (#82)
    by magster on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:48:29 PM EST
    on Israel. Weak tea...

    ooohhh (none / 0) (#83)
    by kmblue on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:49:39 PM EST
    Romney said pariah

    Can you indict someone for genocide when (none / 0) (#85)
    by ruffian on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:49:47 PM EST
    no genocide has taken place?

    Indict him in a U.S. Court? (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by Peter G on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:00:29 PM EST
    That would be the most world-destabilizing move imaginable.  Or in the International Criminal Court -- that the US refuses to participate in?  I suppose Romney (that is, his Bork-led DOJ) could indict anyone, like a ham sandwich, as we say.

    Parent
    r parroting Obama again (none / 0) (#86)
    by kmblue on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:49:57 PM EST


    Oh no, Ahmadinijad said mean things. (none / 0) (#89)
    by caseyOR on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:51:13 PM EST
    Indict him!

    Can't wait to here what Mitt would do if Iran closed the Straits of Hormuz. Break out the nuclear bomb? We haven't used the big bomb in a really long time. Get it out of mothballs!

    Mitt has lost the fixed smile (none / 0) (#92)
    by ruffian on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:52:05 PM EST
    Gone to grim look. I predict some nastiness next time he talks.

    And.....there it is (none / 0) (#94)
    by ruffian on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:53:09 PM EST
    And here is the nastiness... (none / 0) (#95)
    by shoephone on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:53:18 PM EST
    right on time.

    Parent
    "10,000 centrifuges spinning uranium!" (none / 0) (#96)
    by shoephone on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:54:37 PM EST
    Is that like how Romney and the neocons are spinnning?

    And if Iran still won't obey me, I'll ground the (none / 0) (#98)
    by caseyOR on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:55:38 PM EST
    whole country for a month. And NO TV!

    Parent
    "Ahmidinejad, go to your room!" (none / 0) (#103)
    by shoephone on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:56:39 PM EST
    Yeah! (none / 0) (#120)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:01:44 PM EST
    "Bad Ahmidinejad! Bad dog!"

    Parent
    what frustrates me the most (none / 0) (#97)
    by CST on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:55:32 PM EST
    about the resurgence of Massachusetts mitt is that he spent half his term as gov and the rest of the time since badmouthing us to win republican votes.  Now all of a sudden he wants to be our bff again.  Sorry mitt, we're not that into you.

    everything the Romney said (none / 0) (#99)
    by kmblue on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:55:51 PM EST
    is not true

    sorry to keep commenting about this (none / 0) (#101)
    by ZtoA on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:56:21 PM EST
    but visuals matter. And in this debate Obama is winning. His ears are powdered and not shiny and Romney IS shiny - sweating. Plus he is smaller and more visually broken up - flag pin and a striped tie. As far as visuals Obama is way ahead.

    All way secondary to Obama killing on content and, well, killing in every way. Playing Battleship - HA!

    uh oh (none / 0) (#106)
    by kmblue on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:57:34 PM EST
    Romney is getting testy

    I've taken more trips than you've taken... (none / 0) (#107)
    by shoephone on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:57:38 PM EST


    If we are going to talk about trips we have taken. (none / 0) (#109)
    by coigue on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:58:47 PM EST
    ......oh my god....

    The contrast is bleak. His bond with Israel is personal, not for fund-raising,

    Who will be credible to ALL parties involved?

    Oooh, boy, did Romney ever open himself ... (none / 0) (#111)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:59:33 PM EST
    ... up for criticism, claiming that the United States has never dictated to other nations.

    Well done Mitt. I am only going to say that once. (none / 0) (#113)
    by ruffian on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 08:59:41 PM EST
    Tell Schieffer his question is idiotic.

    Romney rehearsed saying (none / 0) (#118)
    by shoephone on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:00:59 PM EST
    the word "tumult" many times just for tonight.

    I don't think Mitt can match (none / 0) (#124)
    by shoephone on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:02:54 PM EST
    Obama saying "I killed Bin Laden."

    Why did he say Biden had the same critique (none / 0) (#125)
    by shoephone on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:03:47 PM EST
    as Romney? Not sre that was a good idea.

    I liked that he said 'my current Vice President ' (none / 0) (#130)
    by ruffian on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:06:39 PM EST
    like Biden  has his job one day at a time.

    But I drifted off right before he said that and am not sure what he was referring to - I think going after bin Laden.

    Parent

    not poll-tested (none / 0) (#126)
    by kmblue on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:04:23 PM EST
    good points--Romney tries to run of Bob "you can't'

    The Afghans? What are they, dogs or blankets? (none / 0) (#127)
    by ruffian on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:04:49 PM EST


    if Romney were in the Olympics (none / 0) (#142)
    by kmblue on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:11:35 PM EST
    they'd give him a 10 for a triple flip with a half gainer--and then reversing it and landing back on the diving board!

    I agree with Obama on drones.... (none / 0) (#143)
    by magster on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:12:04 PM EST
    Romney is running to replace Obama?

    He's trying to ride the O coattails (none / 0) (#160)
    by lilburro on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:19:32 PM EST
    be the same President on FP and a different one domestically, I think.  But he's not really selling it, I think because overall the GOP has a difficult time acknowledging a job well done.  Maybe I missed a moment where he gave Obama some respect as CiC but he's just scattershot bickering as far as I can see.

    Parent
    And I think Obama is on the attack (none / 0) (#165)
    by lilburro on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:22:01 PM EST
    because he sees what's up on that.  

    Parent
    That's a valid analysis. (none / 0) (#166)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:22:24 PM EST
    Unfortunately, he comes across as Mini-Me when he does so.

    Parent
    Hehe. Thanks. (none / 0) (#179)
    by lilburro on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:28:06 PM EST
    I'm sitting here trying to understand this weird debate performance from Romney and that's all I can come up with.  And I agree, Romney does look like Mini-Me and I think Obama is doing a great job of knocking him for all this disingenuous moderate agreement.

    Parent
    uh, oh. Here come the drones (none / 0) (#144)
    by Peter G on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:12:18 PM EST


    Hell yes I support the use of drones, Bob. (none / 0) (#146)
    by caseyOR on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:12:54 PM EST
    Why I have my own kill list right here in my pocket.

    Romney thinks Bibi WANTS to talk peace? (none / 0) (#148)
    by shoephone on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:13:11 PM EST
    The Debate of Magical Thinking.

    oh Bob (none / 0) (#151)
    by kmblue on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:15:09 PM EST
    you and your hypotheticals--

    Boy, Mitt's really got a hard-on for Iran (none / 0) (#156)
    by shoephone on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:17:49 PM EST


    Mittens has gone over the line to nauseating (none / 0) (#168)
    by womanwarrior on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:23:25 PM EST
    Really, I have been trying to listen to this, but it is so annoying. Mitt doesn't want a trade war but there is a trade war and we are losing? Can anyone really think he has any idea what he is talking about?

    Obama wasted some time being petty, but finally gets on point.  

    "I'm still speaking, plebe!" (none / 0) (#173)
    by shoephone on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:25:44 PM EST


    OMG: "I'm still speaking" Again!! (none / 0) (#174)
    by Dr Molly on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:25:51 PM EST
    loathe him

    At what point does Mitt just start (none / 0) (#175)
    by Anne on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:25:59 PM EST
    screaming and stamping his feet about how much he knows about business.

    What an unmitigated tool.

    How is it that Obama is not running away (5.00 / 3) (#180)
    by caseyOR on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:28:11 PM EST
    with this race? Romney is a fool. And a tool. The race should not be this close.

    Parent
    Well, Obama only becomes this guy (none / 0) (#195)
    by lilburro on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:34:13 PM EST
    when he's under pressure.  So that's part of it.  IMO...

    I'm excited for the debates to be over, though.  I think his team is more capable of dominating a news cycle than Romney's.  They just haven't had the opportunity to get a clean crack at it since the 1st debate.  

    Romney's closing statement is so bizarre.  Just rattling off catchphrases.

    THANK YOU BABY JESUS THE DEBATES ARE OVER

    Parent

    Schieffer has disappeared (none / 0) (#177)
    by shoephone on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:26:37 PM EST


    Past his bedtime, I think. (none / 0) (#178)
    by Anne on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:27:50 PM EST
    Were these the choices of the campaigns?

    Really bad.

    Parent

    I'd bet the parties jumped at having Schieffer (none / 0) (#189)
    by shoephone on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:31:11 PM EST
    moderate.

    Parent
    Romney did it again (none / 0) (#181)
    by kmblue on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:28:28 PM EST
    I'm sorry I was speaking

    C'mon Obama do NOT let him get away with this (none / 0) (#182)
    by ruffian on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:29:15 PM EST


    When did Obama say he only wants to hire teachers? (none / 0) (#185)
    by shoephone on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:29:43 PM EST
    Romney is SUCH an A$$HOLE!

    I really think Obama skewered him and his b.s.

    shit (none / 0) (#187)
    by kmblue on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:30:03 PM EST
    romney has the last word

    HE had the first word too. Hmm (5.00 / 1) (#199)
    by shoephone on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:36:42 PM EST
    It's only fair (none / 0) (#192)
    by CoralGables on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:33:27 PM EST
    because Romney got schooled for the other 90 minutes

    Parent
    Heading towards Greece.... (none / 0) (#190)
    by ruffian on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:32:48 PM EST
    goes that line score well with anyone?

    Romney is a peacenik now. Who knew? (none / 0) (#191)
    by Dr Molly on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:32:57 PM EST


    What the hell is he talkingg about? What torch? (none / 0) (#193)
    by ruffian on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:33:49 PM EST


    Did Michelle get between Tagg and Barack? (none / 0) (#196)
    by ruffian on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:35:34 PM EST


    Michelle: The Beautiful Bodyguard (5.00 / 2) (#201)
    by shoephone on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:37:34 PM EST
    finally... (none / 0) (#197)
    by fishcamp on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:35:43 PM EST
    now back to the ball games.

    Who's got the CNN poll results? (none / 0) (#210)
    by shoephone on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:41:05 PM EST


    i know that TV commentating is not a (none / 0) (#211)
    by caseyOR on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:41:08 PM EST
    profession that attracts the best and the brightest. Geez, though, we ought to be able to do better than twits like David Brooks and David Gregory.

    My impression: Mitt didn't impress, BO didn't ... (none / 0) (#214)
    by RonK Seattle on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:49:55 PM EST
    ... impress enough.

    Race is still neck-and-neck.

    Obama was the Giants (none / 0) (#215)
    by lilburro on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:52:54 PM EST
    Romney the Cards tonight.

    For a while there when (none / 0) (#217)
    by fishcamp on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 09:56:14 PM EST
    Obama's eyes got squinty and flinty it looked like he wanted to throw a quick left jab into Mitt's sweaty red face.

    CNN (none / 0) (#219)
    by Amiss on Mon Oct 22, 2012 at 10:18:08 PM EST
    Wolf said 48%Obama
    40%Romney