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The Success Of Occupy Wall Street

Via Occupy Wall Street protest skeptic and mocker John Cole, this:

The “Occupy Wall Street” protests, now entering their third week, are poised to get a whole lot bigger than its core of 200 to 300 people, potentially even exceeding the protesters original goals of 20,000 demonstrators, thanks to recent pledges of support from some of New York City’s largest labor unions and community groups.

I have not followed Occupy Wall Street much, but I know it has been successful, at least on the micro-level -- my 17 year old daughter has joined the protests. Given that her father pontificates about politics all the time, you might think something I said might have spurred her to political action. Alas, parents don't know anything.

So thanks Occupy Wall Street for engaging my 17 year old daughter in issues that are as important to her as to everyone else. It is her future at stake.

Speaking for me only

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    Going Saturday... (5.00 / 3) (#1)
    by kdog on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 09:36:27 AM EST
    "Occupy Wall St." is gonna get me off the surrender bench, at least for a day...too cool not to at least check it out, shake some hands, give thanks and praises.

    And no worries BTD, I prefer older women:) Seriously though, good for her, we get nowhere without the youth on board.  May the come in droves.

    can't go this weekend (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by CST on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 10:10:20 AM EST
    as I am heading out of town already, but if this continues the way it's been continuing, I will probably head down next weekend, and try to convince a number of friends to come with.  Carpool, take the bus, doesn't matter.  NYC is close enough for a day trip.  Maybe I'll take a few this fall.

    I read one commentary where someone was telling people to "get professional".  The response I liked was "professionals have to start showing up too".

    Parent

    If I should get laid off... (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by kdog on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 10:29:02 AM EST
    I like to think I'd be down at the scene of the crime of the millenium everyday...but it looks like "job security" is my raise this year.

    If ya come down and are up for another head, I'll meet ya and the Beantown crew in the occupation zone...oculus and ruffian can vouch for me:)

    Parent

    I may (none / 0) (#9)
    by CST on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 10:46:54 AM EST
    take you up on that!  I'll let you know next week how things play out.

    Parent
    Speedy train is great. (none / 0) (#76)
    by oculus on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 08:55:46 PM EST
    According to histories of the anti-Vietnam War (5.00 / 4) (#2)
    by Peter G on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 09:49:21 AM EST
    peace movement, the first substantial public demonstration against US involvement in that war (organized by the Socialist Party and longstanding pacifist groups such as the War Resisters League) was in New York City in December 1964.  It drew about 1500 people.  There was little or no media coverage.

    Funny (5.00 / 6) (#4)
    by MO Blue on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 10:24:27 AM EST
    A whole lot of people who mock the "Occupy Wall Street" protests as not being perfect (not big enough, not organized enough etc.) have been spouting the mantra of "Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good." for years in defense of sh!tty government policies.

    Hopefully this will be the start of ordinary people demanding accountability from their government.

    Well, most of those people (5.00 / 3) (#6)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 10:34:59 AM EST
    were seeking to support the President in all things no matter what. This protest is also about his failure, not singularly about his failure but he is part of the failure now.

    Those who were screaming about the perfect being the enemy of the good as it pertained to supporting this President at all costs will now move those goal posts and change the field they are playing on :)

    Parent

    Unfortunately it goes back even (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by MO Blue on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 10:53:41 AM EST
    before Obama. It started big time in 2006 when the Dems gained the majority and accelerated in 2008 when Obama gained the WH and the Dems had super majorities in both houses of Congress.

    BTW, IIRC Cole was a moderate Republican who only left that party after they became too radical for his tastes. It is no surprise that he finds the current moderate Republican policies good. It is no wonder that the Democratic party has become a more moderate Republican Party since we have moderate Republicans dictating to long time Dems what policies they should find acceptable.    

    Parent

    I lived in Washington DC (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Edger on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 10:39:40 AM EST
    (Arlington actually) when MLK and a quarter million people demonstrated in 1963.

    I wish I could be in New York for this now... I suspect it's only the start of something that will grow far beyond MSM's ability to bury it.

    And next week October2011.org will add the actions in Freedom Plaza in Washington.

    You might be surprised how much (5.00 / 4) (#8)
    by Anne on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 10:40:00 AM EST
    does get through to our kids, even if their outward reaction or response is one that suggests we couldn't possibly know anything.  They take it in, it rolls around a bit, and one day, they say or do something they believe to be totally their own idea, that they are doing on their own initiative, but which you realize is the result of seeds that you planted.  It's one of the great rewards of parenting, in my opinion.

    If she reads TL, I guess that little secret's out (sorry!).

    But, good for her, BTD.  The movement is picking up steam; there is now an OccupySF, which you can read about here.  Stop the Machine, in DC, is scheduled for October 6, and you can read about that here, and here.

    From STM's website:

    Forty-seven years ago, Mario Savio, an activist student at Berkeley, said, "There's a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious--makes you so sick at heart--that you can't take part. You can't even passively take part. And you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop. And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all."

    Powerful, and very appropriate words.

    As more cities and more people join the protests/occupation, more coverage in inevitable, and may have to turn to discussing the issues that are driving these occupations.  

    If more young people get involved, it will be interesting to see when or if the Obama campaign addresses it, since he's going to need their votes more than he probably did last time.


    There are "Occupy ______" sites all over (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by Towanda on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 09:57:25 PM EST
    the country now; in my area alone, they are in big cities and small towns.  They can be found on Facebook by the dozens.

    But don't tell the media, lest something on this story for many days now actually make it into my paper.  Honestly, when I have to get my news on Facebook (since this is just emerging on TL), it's just sad.

    Parent

    The Goood News for Us... (5.00 / 4) (#13)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 11:19:03 AM EST
    ... and not for them is there is an army of unemployeed folks to take it to the streets.

    I was reading something about them gearing up for winter.  I mean sseriously, it takes dedication to protest in NYC in the winter.  

    Lightspeed citizens.

    You would think... (5.00 / 2) (#22)
    by kdog on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 12:43:49 PM EST
    the government and their Wall St. overlords would get on the job creation thingy just to avoid having all these young pissed-off people with nothing to do all day.

    Even the lazy defeated frightened American prole will take to the streets eventually, even if just out of extreme boredom.

    Penny wise pound foolish, slaying the golden goose...again and again and again.

    Parent

    True, but that would (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by KeysDan on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 12:51:28 PM EST
    require an ability, or at least, a willingness to think things out.

    Parent
    Greed is a helluva drug... (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by kdog on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 12:58:48 PM EST
    impairs judgement worse than the booze.

    When reason fails, that leaves fear...if this thing keeps growing to where a grifter can't get to his grifter office without passing through an angry horde, every trading day, or even better to where the patriots are actually occupying the exchange and corporate offices.

    Provided the patriots have the fortitude, and the police don't start shooting, of course.


    Parent

    If history is any guide, (5.00 / 2) (#36)
    by KeysDan on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 01:26:49 PM EST
    oppression will be the first line of defense, rather than reforms that might actually address the concerns of the people.  Partly due to disdain, and partly owing to reluctance to loosen up on greed.

    And, in keeping with not thinking it through, a lack of appreciation for how little it really takes to keep a restive populace quiet so as to allows continued transport from gated communities to their grifter work sites in their Mercedes S 550s.  Yet, they seem to begrudge a social security check to the elderly of $12,000 a year, provision of health care for the uninsured that may avoid death, bargaining rights for work place safety, assistance in education, and, of course, a decent job.

    Parent

    Thievery Corporation (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 12:54:07 PM EST
    Not sure if anyone has heard of this band.  Seen them twice, very political.  Probably the only band in history to use 'The Federal Reserve' in a lyric.

    Clips from '33 Degree'.

    I'm the president of a shadow government
    The grand governor of the federal reserve
    Public enemy of the society
    The one you cannot see
    The 33 degree

    Cameras that track me they try to entrap me
    Shadows I creep 'cause I know exactly
    The knowledge you keep,
    I'm the word on the street
    I've got nothing to lose, the whole world to gain
    Slipped outta your noose, I'm running your game

    Listen Here.
    Lyrics Here.

    Perfect Wall Street Blockade Music IMO.

    Just out of curiousity (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 01:12:44 PM EST
    What is it that the protesters want?

    What would it take to make then go home happy?

    A fair free open market? (5.00 / 2) (#31)
    by kdog on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 01:17:55 PM EST
    An open government by, of, and for the people?

    Ya know, crazy revolutionary classic American stuff like that:)

    Parent

    Sin is bad love is good (none / 0) (#50)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 02:05:33 PM EST
    That doesn't answer the question.

    What specific things do they want??

    Or is it they just want attention and to demonstrate?

    Parent

    I'll let you know... (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by kdog on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 02:24:30 PM EST
    after I go down there tomorrow and see for myself.  

    From their website...never mind it crashed, must be gettin' mad hits!  I saw something about refusing to allow 1% to economically dominate 99%.

    Parent

    I'm willing (none / 0) (#60)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 02:34:14 PM EST
    to bet that making a few of these people who were responsible for collapsing the economy do the perk walk would go along way towards satisfying them.

    Parent
    They Don't Have Hostages, There's No List... (none / 0) (#69)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 04:56:20 PM EST
    ... of demands.  To me at least it doesn't seem about a specific topic, just to say we have have enough of corporate greed.  

    What better place to protest then greed central.

    I am surprised no one is at Treasury.  To me Geithner is public enemy numero uno in regards to the economy.

    Parent

    You shouldn't take Jim's question seriously, (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by NYShooter on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 11:32:35 PM EST
    He's bought into his Party's slogan:

    "I've got plenty of nuthin,
    and nuthin's plenty for me."

    (written, of course, by the plantation owner)

    Parent

    Thanks for nothing (none / 0) (#83)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Oct 01, 2011 at 03:07:50 PM EST
    I have always found that unfocused anger, while making me feel good, accomplishes nothing.

    Sin is bad, love is good is correct.

    Hating your brother is bad, loving your brother is better.

    I remain curious. What are the goals?? Could I support some of them? None of them?

    Parent

    Seen Inside Job? (none / 0) (#68)
    by Coral on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 04:12:44 PM EST
    Basically it's the same motivation, to bring attention.

    What's that line from Death of a Salesman?

    "Attention must be paid."

    Not to them, individually (although that's where it starts), but to the situation and to those responsible. I totally applaud this movement and the courage these people are displaying...and the courage that is now spreading.

    I, for one, would be much happier if Democrats enacted the Jobs Bill, however inadequate, because that would demonstrate that they take unemployment of near 10% seriously.

    I'd also like to see an end to the exploitation of college and young post-college students through unpaid internships. My kids have worked a number of them, and guess who had to pay their living expenses while they did?

    Parent

    The Rulz (5.00 / 3) (#44)
    by MO Blue on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 01:53:24 PM EST
    Never let facts get in the way of the Wall St./Bankers Protection racket.

    ...the median salary for stockbrokers is approximately $88,000 a year. But that is besides the point. The demonstrators are not targeting the individuals who work on Wall Street, they are targeting the financial institutions and practices they represent.
    ...
    BLOOMBERG: The protesters are protesting against people who make $40-50,000 a year and are struggling to make ends meet. That's the bottom line. Those are the people that work on Wall Street or on the finance sector. [...] People in this day and age need support for their employers.....link

    Somehow I think that they might be protesting the following people and how they run the government and not the janitors and how well they clean the offices:

    4 Highest-Paid Bank CEOs In America 2011
     

    And of course he knows this very well (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by sj on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 02:12:35 PM EST
    Distract and divide.  And declare pity for the poor bankers
    People in this day and age need support for their employers

    Slimeball.

    Parent

    and, how very disappoiting (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by NYShooter on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 11:37:28 PM EST
    that Bloomberg would claim the protesters are targeting clerks and janitors.

    Or, disingenuously, framing it that way.  

    Parent

    Protesting against whom? (5.00 / 2) (#64)
    by Edger on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 03:44:32 PM EST
    Last year a list was leaked of attendees of an important rightwing planning conference organized by Koch Industries. This is an annual meeting at which the servants of plutocracy plot its further entrenchment.  Eleven members of this year's Forbes 400 were on the list.  These are the hardcore plutocrats.  These are the people who personally take the time to destroy our political system for their own short-term gain -- and that of their families if their aristocracy of wealth is allowed to continue.  These 11 people pay a fraction of the rate you pay on your income into Social Security and Medicare. They have no need for Social Security or Medicare.  And they participate in a political movement that is trying to dismantle those programs.  Meet your masters, fellow Americans.

    -- Names, photos, and bios of these 11 here...

    Parent

    Occupy Wall Street Images (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by dead dancer on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 03:48:27 PM EST
    from the Atlantic

    My fav: is here.


    If you've never (5.00 / 2) (#70)
    by NYShooter on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 07:07:11 PM EST
    Experienced being in the sphere of power, its almost impossible to imagine it.

    I saw it in the attitude and behavior of the top football and basketball players I lived with in college, and, then much later, in my years in "Mahogany Row," at a Dow 30 Corporation.  

    I've read some dismissive, mocking remarks being made by Wall Street executives about the protest, but I assure you, they pack an extra pair of shorts in their briefcases before coming to work.

    The only thing they fear, not the regulators, not the SEC, not the Justice Dept,  is taking place on the streets. I guarantee, not too many Wall Street babies are being conceived these days, or rather, these nights.


    Popular uprisings have (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by KeysDan on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 08:09:59 PM EST
    historically been the fear of those in power.  An aesthetic example is the beautiful  boulevards of Paris, as Baron Haussmann's contribution to authoritarian control of crowds. Not only were the streets designed to be wide, but also straight to enable canons to be fired into barricades, and people.

    Parent
    They're not thinking about the protests at all. (none / 0) (#73)
    by jpe on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 07:31:31 PM EST
    They're up in Westchester doing whatever they do there.  

    Parent
    They are and they will be for some time (none / 0) (#74)
    by Rojas on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 07:55:15 PM EST
    But it's become patently obvious that we've been killing the wrong people. I reckon it will be worth a seat on the bench.

    Parent
    Jon Stewart was disappointing (none / 0) (#11)
    by KeysDan on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 10:55:51 AM EST
    last night in his "coverage"--mocking a lack of focus (really, a broad-brush is appropriate for Wall Street, after all where do you start?) and ridiculing Michael Moore for being there in search of TV cameras.  He did, however, give it to the "white shirted" police officer who specializes in pepper spraying women behind orange-plastic netting as well as fellow "blue shirted" police officers.  He had a lot of fun with Officer Pepper's real name: Anthony Bologna, whom he said is really Tony Baloney.  Maybe, this is a case of success just by the needed national publicity directed at the Daily Show crowd.

    Jon Steward is not a great thinker (none / 0) (#15)
    by Dadler on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 11:32:34 AM EST
    He is enamored of Ron Paul.  He never really gets in the face of guests he should.  He's a reasonably funny guy, but Colbert has him as a smart satirist by MILES.

    Parent
    Jon Stewart is not (none / 0) (#37)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 01:29:10 PM EST
    enamored of Ron Paul.  What an absurd thing to say.

    Parent
    Yes, my take was not (none / 0) (#43)
    by KeysDan on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 01:51:54 PM EST
    that he was enamored of Rep. Paul, but that he was the "overlooked" Republican in that line-up, despite his Iowa and other polling of Republicans.  Stewart may well agree with his anti-war and drug positions, but not likely many, if any, others.  

    Parent
    THAT is what I mean (none / 0) (#48)
    by Dadler on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 02:03:47 PM EST
    Do you EVER see him rip Paul's utterly idiot rightwing social stances?  

    If he were a genuine satirist with Paul, he would.

    Now, if he has, again, I will take that wet noodle beating.  BTW, I prefer rice noodles.

    Parent

    Also...Ron Paul is a POLITICIAN (none / 0) (#49)
    by Dadler on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 02:04:45 PM EST
    For sh*t's sake, it would seem he'd be a tad dubious, after Obamam, of believing what pols SAY as opposed to what the DO.

    Parent
    That would be my criticism (none / 0) (#56)
    by KeysDan on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 02:22:53 PM EST
    of Jon Stewart in the Ron Paul instance: Ron Paul is a candidate for president and his presence on the Daily Show seemed intent on bringing his slight, despite party favor,  to the forefront.  Michele Bachman is falling like a rock and giving her a platform, although promising good entertainment, would give her a lift. But, Ron, like Michele, need to share that exposure to the public with their ideas.

    In 2008, Jon Stewart pretty much resuscitated the campaign corpse of John McCain, a couple of times,  with frequent guest appearances that portrayed a kindly old war hero, maverick politician rather than the mean-spirited reactionary--and without discussion of McCains's Keating Five censure by the senate's ethics committee.

    Parent

    Nor do I spend much time thinking about (none / 0) (#82)
    by DFLer on Sat Oct 01, 2011 at 01:35:06 PM EST
    Jon Stewart's man-crushes.

    Parent
    Look, IMO, he is enamored of him (none / 0) (#46)
    by Dadler on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 02:02:50 PM EST
    In a very odd way.  This is not science, it's opinion . Apparently your take on things is rooted in neurological certainties found in textbooks.

    Wait, I see the light.  I am wrong.  And you can flog me with a wet noodle.  I will give you half an hour to draw a crowd.

    Parent

    The occupy Wall Street movement would (none / 0) (#12)
    by tigercourse on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 11:17:37 AM EST
    make alot more sense to me if it were directed at policy makers in Washington. It's like protesting farmers for getting too many subsidies. No farmer or big money trader in their right mind is going to give money back, but policy makers can be influenced if they realize that their political necks are on the line.

    Matt Stoller spent some time at (5.00 / 3) (#14)
    by Anne on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 11:30:26 AM EST
    #OccupyWallStreet, and files this report - with lots of photos - which is well worth reading.  Note that, while they are in the financial district, the occupation is not limited to Wall Street's role in what's been going on for some years.

    I think the part that really struck me was this (my bold):

    ...They don't have a formal list of demands.

    And it's obvious that this isn't just about Wall Street, nor is it really a battle of any sort. There are political signs there attacking Fox News, expressing anger about Troy Davis, supporting the Iranian revolution, urging the Federal Reserve be reigned in, and demanding rich people pay their taxes. There are personal signs about debt, war, and medical problems. And people are dressed in costume, carrying lightsabers, and some guys are driving around a truck with a "Top Secret Wikileaks" sign on the side. I asked if they were affiliated with the site, and one of them responded with "That's what the Secret Service asked". Most of all, people there are having fun.

    What these people are doing is building, for lack of a better word, a church of dissent. It's not a march, though marches are spinning off of the campground. It's not even a protest, really. It is a group of people, gathered together, to create a public space seeking meaning in their culture. They are asserting, together, to each other and to themselves, "we matter".

    Meaning is a fundamental human need. The act of politicization, of building any movement, is based on individual, and then group self-confidence. As Daniel Ellsberg said, "courage is contagious". I'm reminded of how Howard Dean campaign worker and current law professor Zephyr Teachout characterized the early antiwar blogosphere and then-radical campaign of Dean, as church-like in their community-building elements. That's what #OccupyWallStreet reminded me of. Even the general assemblies, where people would speak, and others would respond, had a rhythmic quality to them, similar to churches or synagogues I've attended.


    "We matter."  We know we do, even after years of being marginalized, condescended to, and treated as if we were stupid - and only pandered to for the votes that enable these so-called representatives to keep doing what they're doing, in conflict with the interests of the majority of people.  

    I think this could, if it's allowed to grow, mark a turning point toward something better.


    Parent

    To Me Ity's More About Exposure (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 11:35:48 AM EST
    The more press they can generate, the more light will be shed on WallStreet's many, many misdeeds.

    Right now their reputations have not suffered to the degree we have, if we can start exposing them for what they are, greedy gamblers of other people's money on loaded tables, then maybe voters and policy makers will start treating them as such.

    Respectable business men they aren't, but you wouldn't know that asking your average joe or watching the news.

    Funny that cops are brutalizing protesters even though their pension took massive blows because of Wallstreet.  I would think this has to be starting some sort of dialog with them, "Hey we are out here protecting the dirt bags that cost me two years pension, maybe we shouldn't be so forceful with the people who are fed up with their shenanigans."  

    Maybe that's just wishful thinking.

    Parent

    Have they talked to the union... (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by Dadler on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 11:43:10 AM EST
    ...that represents the police?

    Parent
    Might be a good idea for a (none / 0) (#18)
    by MO Blue on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 11:44:36 AM EST
    few protesters to have signs that point out that out to the cops.

    their pension took massive blows because of Wallstreet


    Parent
    Well, NYC police still get pretty darn good (none / 0) (#21)
    by tigercourse on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 12:32:16 PM EST
    pensions. They don't have that much to complain about as far as I know.

    Parent
    I'm No Pension Expert (none / 0) (#28)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 01:09:09 PM EST
    But they are guaranteed, the taxpayers fund them.  But when future labor contracts are negotiated, it will effect those pensions.

    The point was more that Wall Street isn't just screwing the people on one side of the orange barriers.  We are all investors at some level, even if it's home ownership, and we all took a beating.  

    The us and them isn't police/protesters, it's everyone/Wall Street & their political enablers.

    The police have a job to do, but they don't have to be so brutal considering they are on the same team on this issue.

    Parent

    I don't want to sound like the defender (none / 0) (#32)
    by tigercourse on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 01:18:13 PM EST
    of Wall Street but... I'm going to defend Wall Street.

    While it's true that the stock market is interconnected at all levels with companies and corporations, "Wall Street" isn't the one I would primarily blame for our current economic woes, at least not the recession. That would be the almost criminal mortgage companies which chucked money at people who shouldn't have been lied to about what they could afford and the banks which bundled mortgages together and passed them around like blunts.

    Now, I get that wall street is mostly the symbol of this, but I feel like people should be protesting in front of the headquarters of Exxon Mobil (doesn't pay any taxes!) or Bank of America or any one of a hundred other greedy/incomptent companies.


    Parent

    All Rated Grade A Paper by Who ? (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 01:45:08 PM EST
    Wallstreet, then they bet on the mortgages failing and walked away with mountains of cash.


    Parent
    Read "The Big Short" (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 02:03:18 PM EST
    by Michael Lewis.

    It'll answer a lot of questions.

    Parent

    You really should read Suskind's book. (5.00 / 3) (#61)
    by Anne on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 02:38:18 PM EST
    Let me set the scene...Hank Paulson and the heads of the major Wall Street firms are sitting around a table discussing how they're going to "save" Lehman Brothers, and do it without government money, which Paulson says is absolutely not going to be forthcoming (and this was all to no avail, as Lehman ended up having to file for bankruptcy protection).

    Paulson was kicking ass and taking names, hoping to scare cooperation out of those in attendance, using the fear of a domino-effect that would occur if Lehman went down, with one firm after another following suit.

    From Ron Suskind's book (bold is mine):

    But fear was a hard sell to this crowd; in fact, over the course of nearly a year, it had failed to conquer deeply ingrained hubris and self-regard.  Like European monarchs in the centuries before democracy, the financial industry CEOs - like so many American CEOs whose behavior Wall Street had shaped and then rewarded with 1980s-forward "innovations" in compensation practices - acted as sovereigns, untouchable.  It was clear since the late summer of 2007 that many of their institutions had been busily swapping and subbing debt - rolling it over, or keeping it invisibly tucked away far from their balance sheets - so they would not have torecognize their underlying insolvency.  Vikram Pandit, presiding over the disaster that was Citibank, was sitting in a chair until recently occupied by Charles Prince, who had left in December with a compensation package worth $52 million.  Bob Rubin, the bank's chairman, was in line for $126 million in compensation.  Thain's predecessor, Stan O'Neal, had slipped out of a crippled Merrill the previous fall with a $72 million package.  Hank Paulson himself, who oversaw Goldman's powerful, viral machinations in mortgage securities until Departing for Treasury in 2006, had left with a pay package worth $700 million.

    While it is certainly true that your average schmo working a trading desk on Wall Street and around the country is not, him- or herself, the enemy, and is not specifically responsible for shredding the economy, Wall Street has become a powerful symbol, of those whose actions and policies ultimately did just that and who have not, other than perhaps having to endure a couple of grillings before Congress, suffered any consequence for it.  I don't even think that, in their appearances before Congress, there was anything even resembling a mea culpa.

    Wall Street and the BSDs in charge have become a symbol of willful disregard for anything but the almighty dollar; it is not the only industry afflicted with this particular illness, but that doesn't make it any less deserving of the public's scorn.

    Parent

    Mmmmmmm (none / 0) (#38)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 01:32:57 PM EST
    And why did the mortgage lenders and the banks do that?  They did it because somebody invented the mortgage derivatives of derivatives and Wall Street developed an insatiable appetite for them.  The mortgage market had to be expanded dramatically in order to satisfy the appetite for the securities.

    Parent
    By and large, the police have been great. (none / 0) (#71)
    by jpe on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 07:29:14 PM EST
    The police pleaded w/ the park owners to let the protesters say, and they've allowed permitless marches go on w/o much hassle (notable incidents to the contrary, of course).

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    Thy're already on it... (none / 0) (#30)
    by kdog on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 01:14:05 PM EST
    I read they've been rocking signs to protect police and other public employee pensions from blood-sucking degenerate grifters, including last Saturday when they were brutalized by the police.

    People don't just vote against their interests, they work against their interests, wield mace against their interests.

    Parent

    "blood sucking degenerate grifters" what (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by tigercourse on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 01:19:32 PM EST
    do you mean, the tax payers?

    Parent
    Perhaps indirectly... (none / 0) (#40)
    by kdog on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 01:42:59 PM EST
    taxpaying voters are responsible for Bloomberg, who will gut pensions and jobs before asking his billionaire buddies for a penny more in exchange for his protection racket services.  Or even to just give up a few perks.

    And responsible for our state and federal "representation" (using the term uber-loosely), who roll the same way.

    Parent

    When I Saw the White haired Cop... (none / 0) (#42)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 01:48:35 PM EST
     ...macing at will, all I could think is he is probably pi$$ed at the world because the bank just took his house.

    Not based on anything, I just like imagining ironic situations.

    Parent

    Another POV, their POV (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by MO Blue on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 11:56:36 AM EST
    In an evolving document titled, "Declaration of the Occupation of New York City," organizers recently declared:

    As we gather together in solidarity to express a feeling of mass injustice, we must not lose sight of what brought us together. We write so that all people who feel wronged by the corporate forces of the world can know that we are your allies. As one people, formerly divided by the color of our skin, gender, sexual orientation, religion, or lack thereof, political party and cultural background, we acknowledge the reality: that there is only one race, the human race, and our survival requires the cooperation of its members; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their brethren; that a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power. We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known.

    Wall Street is America's chief symbol of profits over people, self-interest over justice and of concentrated wealth over democracy. While millions of Americans struggle to find jobs, prevent banks from taking their homes, keep up with payments for student loans and get by on the minimal jobless benefits and welfare the government is willing to grant its citizens, Wall Street shoulders no burden. It enjoys millions of dollars in tax breaks each year. The corporations on Wall Street give executives bonuses that are grotesquely high, sometimes more than $10 million. Big banks are able to give their most senior executives these bonuses because the US government bailed them out through TARP in 2008. link



    Parent
    Amazing what one sentence can do (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by sj on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 12:20:31 PM EST
    We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known.

    That brought a tear to my eye and just a breath of hope to my heart.

    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#26)
    by chrisvee on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 01:05:29 PM EST
    I like this part, too:

    a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power


    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#39)
    by sj on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 01:35:17 PM EST
    So much good stuff there.

    Parent
    The irony is, (5.00 / 2) (#72)
    by NYShooter on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 07:31:17 PM EST
    We couldn't care less how many millions the executives can make. We understand "Capitalism," and "Free Enterprise."
    The key, of course, is that Government's role should be to ensure a fair, regulated, market place. And, that Corporations should, once again, consider us as customers to be catered to.

    The problem is that the Corporations have figured out they can make a lot more money by rejecting Capitalism & Free Enterprise. By buying the Government they no longer have to compete for "customers" in order to increase profits, as our Government has given them the green light to treat us as victims.

    The people demonstrating understand that and are the real capitalists, and the true patriots.


    Parent

    I think this movement is (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by KeysDan on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 01:08:01 PM EST
    different than protesting farmers for subsidies--at least farmers produce something needed, food.   But Goldman Sachs and their ilk are actually running/ruining the economy. It is not either  Wall Street or DC, it is both, but it seems to me to be better to bring more attention to the Wall Street Edgar Bergen than just to its DC Charlie McCarthy.  These Wall Street Edgars have been shielded by the wooden-headed puppets whom  they have bought and paid for.

    Parent
    Farmers Aren't Buying Political Power With... (5.00 / 2) (#54)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 02:14:08 PM EST
     ...ill-gotten gains, to ensure future ill-gotten gains.  

    Farmers never stole from your retirement or devalued your house.  Farmers put food on your table and do it with muscle and might.

    Parent

    Agri-business. Ethanol. (none / 0) (#77)
    by oculus on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 08:56:27 PM EST
    You beat me to it (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by NYShooter on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 09:17:38 PM EST
    But, I believe Scott was referring to farmers as we've always thought of "farmers."

    Agri-business, as the name implies, is not farming. It's manufacturing. They don't "grow" food, they manufacture protein, fat, and carbohydrates. And then, Madison Avenue puts the products in a cute package, with a focus group approved cartoon on the cover.

    In my mind:
    We eat, and enjoy, farmer's meats and produce.

    We "consume" agribusiness's production.  


    Parent

    From their Website... (none / 0) (#34)
    by kdog on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 01:21:29 PM EST
    Radiohead playing a free show today at 4, live from the occupation zone.

    This gets more awesome by the minute.  

    Awesome (none / 0) (#51)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 02:07:41 PM EST
    They can pretend nothing is going on, but they are incapable of ignoring fame, it's their fix.

    Parent
    Plus Who Doesn't Love RadioHead (none / 0) (#52)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 02:08:04 PM EST
    Well that's one way (none / 0) (#55)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 02:18:11 PM EST
    to get the Tahrir Square Too Big To Fail affect going :)  There comes a point in a large protest when law enforcement just says phuck it cuz there's just too many.

    Parent
    I would expect BTD's (none / 0) (#35)
    by oculus on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 01:25:05 PM EST
    daughter to be protesting in from of the Treas. Dept or Geithner's home!  What does her sign say?

    Nothing going on at the Treasury (none / 0) (#45)
    by jbindc on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 02:02:22 PM EST
    I was just across the street from the Treasury about an hour ago getting money from the Bank of America ATM (the irony kills me).  The only things I saw were people going to lunch and tourists walking around taking pictures of the building.

    Parent
    Life is (none / 0) (#59)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 02:32:25 PM EST
    full of ironies is it not?

    I have a mortgage with BOA but not because I wanted to. It just ended up that way.

    Parent

    It kills me every time I walk by (none / 0) (#62)
    by jbindc on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 02:47:32 PM EST
    It's a very old bank building.  Both BoA and PNC occupy the space - they are branches.  But that building is literally the closest commercial building to the Treasury and the White House - it's within steps.

    Parent
    And this (none / 0) (#66)
    by dead dancer on Fri Sep 30, 2011 at 04:00:09 PM EST
    that daughter story ... you're a REAL human! (none / 0) (#84)
    by seabos84 on Sun Oct 02, 2011 at 03:41:23 PM EST
    funny how on the inter-tubes people are just a name & a collection of bits and bits of words and bits of ideas --

    ANY 17 year old getting out there makes me feel good - and with 17 year old being your kid, an old decrepit grouch like you must feel GREAT.

    congrats for both of ya! ;)

    r. murphy
    seattle