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Thursday Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 11:00:41 AM EST
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Another busy work day here.

The hanging death of Jonah Shacknai's girlfriend so soon after of the death of his six year old son Max, who had fallen down the stairs days earlier, is a bit of a puzzler.

But San Diego County Sheriff's Department Sgt. Roy Frank and Coronado police Chief Louis Scanlon, in separate interviews, have stressed to reporters that there are suicide cases in which the person ties their hands to keep from trying to loosen the knot around their neck.

The Sheriff's Department, taking the lead in the investigation of Zahau's death, has said it cannot yet decide between suicide and foul play as the cause of death.

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

< Wednesday Afternoon Open Thread | John Edwards Ordered to Return $2.6 Mil in Matching Campaign Funds >

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    Thursday Open Thread | 200 comments (200 topical)
    Excellent workout today (5.00 / 2) (#22)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 01:24:33 PM EST
    at the gym. I'm in a lot better shape than I thought.

    Well, let's see if I repeat this comment tomorrow, after the lactic acid comes in to the picture.

    be sure to stretch AFTER working out, too (5.00 / 3) (#23)
    by Dadler on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 01:28:06 PM EST
    Big help in cutting down on soreness and increasing flexibility.  

    Parent
    And buy these to have at home (none / 0) (#109)
    by Dadler on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 03:32:45 PM EST
    The least expensive and best piece of workout equipment you'll ever buy.  The Perfect Push-Up.  Nothing like push-ups for working your core as you pump those biceps and triceps and lats and all the rest. And these make it much easier on your shoulders and elbows and hands. (LINK)

    Parent
    Have you used these, Dadler? (none / 0) (#113)
    by caseyOR on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 03:37:51 PM EST
    I've seen them, but have never tried them. Do you use them? Are they any good?

    Parent
    I love them (none / 0) (#198)
    by Dadler on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 09:09:47 PM EST
    My entire workout "regimen" is whatever cardio I feel like getting my legs moving with, and then every-other-night sets of pushups. And stretching, always stretching.

    Parent
    Get some digestive enzymes at the healthfood store (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 01:32:59 PM EST
    Cuts the soreness mucho!

    Parent
    You will probably be sore, (5.00 / 2) (#28)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 01:36:00 PM EST
    but it will be a "good" sore.  Sounds like you have a great attitude and have taken a high dive into your new dietary and exercise pool.   If feasible, it might be helpful to take a few lessons from a personal trainer--mostly so you do not over do, or injure yourself.

    Parent
    Buy some epsom salts. (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by caseyOR on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 01:51:57 PM EST
    Add to the bath, and take a good soak. It is surprisingly good at easing the aches and pains of a new exercise program.

    Parent
    Thanks for the comments (5.00 / 2) (#43)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 02:11:35 PM EST
    and suggestions. Had a free session with a personal trainer today. If she stands around me, I'm sure to work harder!

    One thing I DIDN'T do today was use the sauna. I simply forgot it was there. I may go back this afternoon for a schvitz (correct usage? I'll take advice...)

    Someone asked me what happened with the Catalan lessons... I dropped out based on the synchronous time problems. But I can probably still get back in for the fall, I did tell them I was interested.

    Oh wait... maybe I should ask them about January. I have something important going on in a few weeks...

    Hey, life goes on, and knowing is better. Now I can easily motivate myself for things I knew I needed to do. Time to get back into Ranger shape. That is far from round, by the way.  I didn't make it to "fluffy", but I was/am somewhere in "husky."

    Explanation of the five levels of fatness by Gabriel Iglesias. Someone made a cartoon out of it, but listen, fairly clean, short, and funny!

    Parent

    Another short from (none / 0) (#45)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 02:14:59 PM EST
    Gabriel Iglesias here.

    Parent
    Whatever happened in the meeting, (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by NYShooter on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 02:14:23 PM EST
    Boehner is singing zip-a-dee-doo-da for the cameras; He and Cohen have Chesire smiles on a mile long, and Boehner's only quote, "NO revenues."

    Looks like Obama got'em where he wants'm; The Republicans caved and agreed to accept 100% of what they wanted.

    and I doubted Obama.

    "The Bears are who we thought they were" (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by me only on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 02:35:07 PM EST
    in other words.

    Parent
    Got tickled this afternoon (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 02:38:20 PM EST
    My daughter grew up around so much political talk she really hates talking politics in any form, I don't even go there with her.  For some reason though today she called and she wanted to talk about her political frustrations.  She is very auditory too, music is very important to her, her world is defined by the noise.  And she tells me that when Mitt Romney talks there is something in his tone that says to her  B.S., B.S., B.S.  She says it is so bad she can't even hear the words he's saying.  She told me that she prays he isn't the nominee because she can't survive listening to him for months and months.  She says she hopes it is the crazy lady.  I said, OH...Michelle Bachmann?  And she says NO, the other one.  What other other one I'm wondering so I volunteer Sarah Palin and she says yeah that one.  I love it, my 22 year old daughter doesn't have Sarah Palin's name in her long term memory and that is exactly as it should be :)

    That's funny. (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 02:47:36 PM EST
    To me Mitt Romney looks like someone you see on commercials. His voice doesn't bother me but he just does seem to be hiding something when he talks. It's kind of like he wants to pull a fast one on you. I guess maybe fake is the best word to describe him. But Ronald Reagan appeared plastic to me so maybe I'm not the best judge on that kind of thing.

    Parent
    I'm very visual too (5.00 / 0) (#71)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 02:53:07 PM EST
    He looks plastic to me, his gestures and appearance scream phoney to me.  I thought she was going to say that he looked fake or something like that, I forget she is auditory.  But it seems that she hears what we see, further confirmation I suppose :)

    Parent
    that was my first reaction to GWB (none / 0) (#121)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 03:57:14 PM EST
    It was accurate.

    Parent
    On a totally different, non-iPhone, non-political (5.00 / 2) (#93)
    by Zorba on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 03:16:45 PM EST
    topic, I have no idea why I am always so excited to harvest the first zucchini, but I am.  I know that in about two weeks, I will be sick of them and begging my friends and neighbors to take some.  Having admitted that, I'm making zucchini frittata for dinner tonight, serving it with new potatoes (from the garden), gently cooked and rolled in butter with some fresh Italian parsley, and a tomato salad with fresh basil (both also from the garden).  I love to plan meals that are predominantly from the garden.  (Now, if I only had some chickens, I could use my own eggs, too.....)

    Zucchini (5.00 / 0) (#128)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 04:28:10 PM EST
    You know what I do with it?  I let some of them get really big, then turn sections of them into baked stuffed, wrap them up and put them in the freezer.

    Microwave one of those puppies and throw some good tomato sauce on it in January and February and it's pure bliss, and fast food, too.

    No kidding, it's one of the most enjoyable meals I have in mid-winter.

    Parent

    Yes, I've done that (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by Zorba on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 04:37:45 PM EST
    Also, the same with large tomatoes and peppers- stuffed and frozen for later (fortunately, we have a big freezer).  I also grate a lot of the zukes and freeze for zucchini bread.

    Parent
    Big freezer here, too (5.00 / 0) (#161)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 05:45:23 PM EST
    That's an excellent idea on the grating and freezing.  I'll do some of that.  Thanks!

    Parent
    They'll be watery (none / 0) (#177)
    by Zorba on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 07:04:35 PM EST
    when you defrost, but just drain them.  Also, if too watery, just adjust your liquids in the zucchini bread accordingly.

    Parent
    I've got some babies (5.00 / 0) (#149)
    by waldenpond on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 05:26:41 PM EST
    I've gotten baby zucs, crook necks and scallops.  I hit 100 pounds of produce this week.  I purchased a dehydrator so I will slice extras thinly and dehydrate them.  They are only supposed to need a short soak in a soup or dish to rehydrate.

    I have planted a second round of broccoli and am ready to pull the pea plants for a fall crop and I think I'll get carrots pulled and replant that space also.

    We're having peas and carrots for dinner.  I have lots of sage, cilantro, celery and basil so I'll come up with something.

    Parent

    We alsways have lots of ... (none / 0) (#171)
    by Yman on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 06:24:25 PM EST
    ... basil and cilantro in our herb garden.  Do you know if they freeze well?

    Parent
    No they don't (5.00 / 1) (#173)
    by waldenpond on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 06:41:34 PM EST
    I am new to gardening... but herbs do not freeze well.  If you live in a warm area, dry outdoors.  I live on the coast in N CA so I have to use a dehydrator.

    A great way to preserve is to chop and add to oil in an ice cube tray.  Once frozen, you can put them in a freezer bag and just drop into your soup or dish.  Works well.

    Parent

    But pesto (5.00 / 2) (#175)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 06:45:14 PM EST
    does freeze well...

    Parent
    Thanks (none / 0) (#179)
    by Yman on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 07:15:58 PM EST
    Dried cilantro would probably lose too much flavor, but freezing in oil sounds like it's worth a shot.

    Parent
    I am absolutely green with envy. (5.00 / 1) (#158)
    by vml68 on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 05:39:13 PM EST
    Would give my left "whatever" to be able to have enough land to grow all the vegetables, fruits and flowers I want.
    For now I'm still stuck in apt/condo world. One day....

    Parent
    Keep aiming for it (5.00 / 1) (#162)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 05:48:20 PM EST
    I didn't get here until my late 50s, but I'm making up for it.  I think growing your own food is one of the most wonderfully satisfying things you can do-- particularly if you're fussy about good food!

    The wonder of it still takes my breath away momentarily when I first stick a digging fork in the ground and pull up potatoes every year.

    Parent

    You'll get there, vml68 (5.00 / 1) (#178)
    by Zorba on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 07:14:24 PM EST
    Meanwhile, daughter Zorba lives in an apartment in New York, and she has pots of fresh herbs, and also two pots of patio tomatoes.  Not quite the same thing, I know, but it's something.  Is there a community garden anywhere near where you live that you can participate in?  We did this years ago, when we lived in an apartment.  

    Parent
    I do have pots of basil, rosemary, thyme, (5.00 / 0) (#196)
    by vml68 on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 08:52:23 PM EST
    mint and thai basil on the balcony. I tried the patio tomatoes last year and did not have much luck with those. I did get plenty of cherry tomatoes though.
    My Meyer lemon and calamondin oranges are doing really well, got lots of fruits from them the last couple of years.
    I have all kinds of houseplants, orchids, cactii, hibiscus and bougainvillae growing too. They satisfy my need to grow something for now.

    Parent
    Iphone 5 (none / 0) (#1)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 11:21:45 AM EST
    I need it to come out.

    Like tomorrow.  

    My old phone isn't going to last much longer.  Am I the only one in this position?

    If I had to guess, I'd say to expect it (none / 0) (#3)
    by andgarden on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 11:49:25 AM EST
    in October.

    Parent
    I think that is unfortunately right (none / 0) (#4)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 12:04:24 PM EST


    Parent
    Why not go for the new (none / 0) (#25)
    by Natal on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 01:31:45 PM EST
    Blackberry Bold 9900 due in a month. Has a touch screen and a real keyboard for your Talkleft commenting.

    Parent
    I made the Apple conversion (none / 0) (#33)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 01:41:08 PM EST
    with an Ipad and an old used Iphone and as much of a contrarian as I think I am, my tech geek heart forces me to go with the masses.

    I have a 2 new-app-a-day habit and blackberry's app store just isn't as good.

    The new Iphone is going to be an absolute beast if the specs I have seen are to be believed. And RIM/Blackberry just can't compete.  The real competition for Iphone is Android.  Androids are fantastic, and that's why I think Apple is really going to raise the bar very high.

    Plus the new apple cloud is going to change everything.  You'll need an iphone for that.

    Parent

    I tend to agree (none / 0) (#40)
    by Natal on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 01:57:56 PM EST
    with your points but for me the iphone virtual keyboard was a big negative against it. My main usage for a smartphone is e-mailing, messaging and news updates and voice calling for emergencies. The Blackberry does this as well as any other phone on the market. And besides BO is a fan of it! LOL

       

    Parent

    any word on the specs (none / 0) (#5)
    by pitachips on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 12:05:08 PM EST
    that apple will loudly tout, most of which will have been available for more than a year on plenty of android devices ;-)  

    Parent
    Yes, I believe that you are the only (none / 0) (#6)
    by me only on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 12:07:21 PM EST
    person in the world that NEEDS an Iphone 5.  Everyone else just wants one.

    Parent
    "Everyone," that is (none / 0) (#7)
    by NYShooter on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 12:09:56 PM EST
    lacking a life.

    Parent
    iPhone 5 thinner, lighter, better camera (none / 0) (#8)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 12:15:00 PM EST
    but from what I have read is only considered an iterative update, not a major one. I would say if you are really in need, the iPhone 4 is good enough. Get it now!

    Parent
    That's exactly what I did (none / 0) (#9)
    by republicratitarian on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 12:17:40 PM EST
    I've been an iPhone user since day 1, tried a phone with Android on it and hated it. Took it back a few weeks later got the iPhone 4. I was going to hold out for the iPhone 5 but I haven't heard anything about it that makes me want to wait.

    Parent
    Me too - literally day 1! (none / 0) (#12)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 12:51:09 PM EST
    I was going to hold out for the 5 too, but got an irresistible holiday deal on the 4 (with a trade-in of my 3GS it was $125).

    Not even tempted to Android. I'm sure there are great things about it, but too chaotic for my taste. I'm happy with this particular corporate overlord.

    Parent

    I barely used (5.00 / 2) (#21)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 01:23:03 PM EST
    a cell phone until 2 years ago. I did send my first text this year, though!

    My thoughts on the phones and apps... too much to think about! I have loaded some telephone numbers in my phone, but for the most part, I just dial from memory. Funny about that. I've never used the calculator, games, or anything else-- screen's too small.  I have to put my glasses on to send or read a text.  

    I don't want to watch a movie on that small of a screen.  Now I tried out the Ipad, but waited a couple of weeks after trying it, and didn't purchase, although I liked it.

    Maybe a kindle for me.

    Heck, I still do the math at the store in my head, and make paper lists.

    Heh. I still have a pocket protector and a slide rule with a belt holster!

    Old school nerd, baby...

    Parent

    A friend sent me a text at Christmas (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by MO Blue on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 02:18:13 PM EST
    Had my youngest grandson give me a brief course in Text Messaging for Dummies so that I could reply. I've upped my text messaging this year to a grand total of----wait for it--- 3.

    I don't have a smart phone and no real desire to get one. Still make my lists on paper. I do use the contact list on my phone because I can be lazy at times and it is easier. Occasionally use the calculator if once again I'm too lazy to do the math in my head.

    Don't have a pocket protector or a slide rule with a belt holster so I guess that makes you the winner of the old school nerd contest with me coming in second. ;o)

    Parent

    It's a cool holster, (5.00 / 2) (#51)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 02:24:24 PM EST
    a large leather belt loop, a swivel chain, and a hard leather holder with a snap top.

    If anyone has a ROUND slide rule, then they win...

    Otherwise I'm the Mack Daddy of Old-School Gangsta Nerds around here.

    Yep, there's a new sheriff in town...

    Parent

    You're way ahead of me, MO Blue. (none / 0) (#54)
    by caseyOR on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 02:27:55 PM EST
    I have never sent a text message. I use my phone to make calls, and that is it. I have received texts, but only because Verizon keeps sending me messages urging me to upgrade my phone. I'm still using the Motorola Razr I got a number of years ago.

    Still use pen and paper to make lists, do arithmetic in my head at the store and use my old pocket calculator for more involved math, watch movies on dvd with my non-digital non-HDTV television.

    I've never thought of myself as a Luddite, but geez.

    Oh, I have a new MacBook Pro. Yeah, not a total Luddite.

    Parent

    But you DO have (none / 0) (#56)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 02:32:13 PM EST
    a compass that points to whatever your heart's greatest desire is, right?

    And you rode two sea turtles after being marrooned, right?

    That shows no ludditism, but adapting improvising and overcoming!

    Parent

    Of course I have that compass. (5.00 / 2) (#63)
    by caseyOR on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 02:39:01 PM EST
    How else would I be able to guide our pirate ship through the 7 Seas to the places we most want to go?

    And It was dolphins, not sea turtles.

    Parent

    All pirate vessels (none / 0) (#112)
    by the capstan on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 03:36:50 PM EST
    need a sturdy capstan....

    Parent
    When I say that (none / 0) (#58)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 02:34:05 PM EST
    my ipad and iphone are the centers of my working and entertainment universe, I don't think I am exaggerating at all.

    I have on of those devices in my hands at almost all times and use them for everything from listening to political and tech podcasts and music (I don't listen to the radio anymore and haven't in years) to entertainment (I watch HBO on the ipad while my wife dominates the big TV in the same room) to work, I rely on them as much as anyone else relies on their purse or personal organizer or even their car radio.  My phone is even my TV remote.

    I think in 5 years, most americans will be the same way.  Their phones will be the center of their entertainment and communication universe.

    Parent

    As prices come down, (none / 0) (#64)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 02:40:28 PM EST
    Adoption and diffusion do happen.

    One of the issues with any opinion polling done nowadays happens to be the lack of cellular calling use. Proscribed by law. So when the polls come out, those are landline only polls.

    Not the self-selection type used on the TV... where 94 percent support the opinion of Ed Schultz, for example, but 94 percent support the opposite from Bill O'Reilly.

    How can that be? Of the folks watching, that was the percentage that had the time and the inclination to call or text in. Also, no blocks on repeat calls in to these polls of convenience.

    Parent

    I understand (none / 0) (#87)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 03:11:23 PM EST
    My iPad is my basic news source, besides the morning paper. I don't watch TV news at all.

    I use my phone to stream XM/Sirius radio - only use the radio in my car and home for occasional NPR on short trips.

    Phone and iPad are my remote for my itunes music in the home, and now my TiVo.

    I don't have to fight for TV time, so I still watch the big screen and have not really gotten into watching much video on the iPad.

    Basically any information that is not in a hard book in my house, I get off the internet with my iPad. I hardly ever even use my laptop anymore except to write long passages.

    Parent

    My nieces and nephews communicate (none / 0) (#83)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 03:05:49 PM EST
    strictly by text...so I have learned to adapt. And I must admit often it is a lot easier to text out random thoughts to my sister that I would never take time out for a phone call. So the net result is more communication, which is a good thing.

    Parent
    I don't know any phone numbers (none / 0) (#36)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 01:50:26 PM EST
    by memory except my childhood best friend that lived across the street, whose mom still has the same number. I've always been terrible with that.

    I'm with you on watching movies on the devices. It will do if I had to, but I'd rather read than watch a movie on a little screen. I read a lot on my phone, and need reading glasses anyway these days, so that is no big deal.

    Also it is just a convenient way to access info on the internet, basically. Most of the non-gaming apps I have just package the internet in some more convenient way.

    Parent

    I had several days of frustration with (none / 0) (#100)
    by hairspray on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 03:25:52 PM EST
    the kindle.  It was a gift, and finding out how to register it was drawn out, then I used my husband's (we were leaving and I needed a couple of books) which "froze" and needed a $40 replacement.   Then I had to read the directions for hours about how to use the commands and finally I decided a plain old book from the library was better.

    Parent
    Has anyone tried Lion yet? (none / 0) (#17)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 01:12:22 PM EST
    I got it last night...only played around a little. The new Launchpad feature lets you arrange your apps on the desktop much like a mobile device. I feel sure touchscreen monitors are in our future.

    I've used them for years at work, but probably the Apple consumer versions will be less clunky than what I am used to in flight training display panels.

    Parent

    That Explains Alot (none / 0) (#18)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 01:12:30 PM EST
    An unrelenting devotion to a shiney product with so/so performance.

    Just kidding.

    Had an iPhone for a couple years, I really liked it until I got a Droid.  Apple doesn't have Google (except maps), and without that they will never stay competitive IMO.  

    Gmail, Gtalk, Music, Voice, Calendar, Maps (not the version Apple uses) all of them inferior to Apples product's on the devise (except Maps), but they are so above and beyond anything Apple has done in regards to integration, that it surprises me how Apple stays competitive.

    Parent

    heh - I was going to warn ABG he was (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 01:17:50 PM EST
    really letting himself in for it now!

    Parent
    I have gmail on my iphone (none / 0) (#19)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 01:16:04 PM EST
    and a google search app, don't have a personal need for the other stuff, but I have seen apps available for some of it.

    Have you tried the google +? what is that like?

    Parent

    Not a fan of google+ (none / 0) (#60)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 02:35:49 PM EST
    My tech geek comrades tell me I should love it but Idon't.  Facebook is just fine.

    Parent
    I had the opposite experience (none / 0) (#27)
    by republicratitarian on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 01:33:19 PM EST
    I was ready for something different than the iPhone so I gave the Droid a try. It didn't do one thing better than the iPhone and it seemed to take extra steps to get to everything. It's possible that I didn't give it enough time, but I was extremely happy to get back to go to the iPhone 4.

    Different strokes for different folks.

    Parent

    We do Droids (5.00 / 0) (#31)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 01:38:18 PM EST
    We are about to get new ones.  iphone is so proprietary, it is annoying...and then there is that freaky tracking program they have...a lot of things that bother us about going iphone.

    Parent
    The proprietary stuff sucks sometimes (5.00 / 2) (#61)
    by republicratitarian on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 02:36:13 PM EST
    and the tracking and storing of information bugs me. But I still like it better.

    I decided that if I'm going to commit a crime I'll just leave the phone at home.

    :)

    Parent

    Bad news, MT. (none / 0) (#66)
    by caseyOR on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 02:44:52 PM EST
    Droid, also, tracks your movements and stores them.

    I still remember Ben Mazel's advice. If you don't want to be tracked either leave the phone at home or remove the battery.

    Parent

    I figured they had to have something (none / 0) (#70)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 02:49:50 PM EST
    because you can watch yourself drive down the road on one :)  You can probably disable it though, you can't disable iphones.  I don't think it will change our choice though, Droids just seem superior to us and many more options.

    Parent
    You can disable the iphone's (none / 0) (#77)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 03:03:02 PM EST
    of course you would not be able to use the phone part either, but just put it in airplane more when you don't intent to use it.

    Also Apple no longer stores the data, supposedly.

    Parent

    ooops - airplane mode. (none / 0) (#78)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 03:03:25 PM EST


    Parent
    thereisnospoon (none / 0) (#2)
    by lilburro on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 11:42:21 AM EST
    has taken up residence at digby's blog as I'm sure many here have noticed.  I thought this post was pretty great and his thoughts on activism are pretty interesting as well.

    Thereisnospoon's thoughts (5.00 / 3) (#16)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 01:09:14 PM EST
    on activism seemed weak at best, and contradictory at best.  His theme that the Democratic party is what we have to work with at this time, e.g. President  Obama for better or worse. And, the argument of doing the best with what you have to work with, making best choices from a poor lot with hope for better choices in the future, was eerily reminiscent of Rumsfeld's Iraq talk: "you go to war with the army you have, not the army you might want or wish to have at a later time".
    And, no reminder is needed, except for Rummy,  on how that all turned out.  

    A flaw, too, in my view, is his call for a "balanced approach, neither a hater or a bot."----which seems to miss a place for his advocacy for dissent or criticism or one is left to equate them to hate.  Moreover, such balance appears counter to his call to change from either within the Democratic party or without.  His  dismissal by fear of "nutcases" like Michele Bachman and Rick Perry  further limits the range of options and suggests that our only hope is Obama  while acknowledging  that there is not much hope in that department, after all.  Just keep trucking and wait for a time to "refashion" the party.

    Parent

    Thanks; you saved me the time (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by Towanda on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 01:37:49 PM EST
    of clicking on the link to see if TINS had learned much in the last few years, since last I watched TINS, iceberg slim, and their ilk cause infamous orange meltdowns based on their assumptions rather than on the facts.  And when confronted with the facts, I well recall that they could not admit them and continued to make commenting fools of themselves.

    Parent
    Iceberg Slim (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 02:20:10 PM EST
    is now being called a "r***" and a "hater" over at the big orange for her diaries. Somewhere along the line she did a 180 on Obama but I don't know why. Of course, I doubt that she'd ever admit that she's part of the problem.

    Parent
    Wow. She was about the worst, IMO. (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by observed on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 02:24:17 PM EST
    In fact, there was a poster over here who sounded a lot like IBS to me.

    Parent
    I can barely (5.00 / 2) (#53)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 02:27:49 PM EST
    visit the site any more... I sigh and think about the days when I was a noob there, Armando was verbally pummeling people, and we all wanted the same things it seemed-- end Iraq, and get rid of W.

    Now Iraq is 'over.' and W is clearing brush.

    The more things change...

    Remember when Red State had the wingnuts and the cult of personality issues?

    Parent

    Is there a word (none / 0) (#148)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 05:26:08 PM EST
    for the left's version of wingnuts?

    [Hint: If you don't think there should be a left version of wingnuts, you are the left's version of wingnuts]

    Parent

    yes (5.00 / 1) (#188)
    by The Addams Family on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 08:10:09 PM EST
    that word is "moonbats"

    i'll give you an example

    some years ago, at a demonstration i attended against the war in Iraq, somebody showed up carrying the U.S. flag, & another participant said "If he's going to carry that flag, I'm not going to march"

    a compromise was reached, & the flag-bearer agreed to carry the flag upside down

    the woman who objected to the flag was a moonbat, & the guy who agreed to carry it upside down was a moonbat-enabler

    now, i suspect that you were looking for a "wingnut" equivalent so you could apply it to those of us who refrain from applying our lips to Obama's a$$

    but we already have a word: "Democrats"

    Parent

    Maybe Adam Bonin was the worst. (none / 0) (#52)
    by observed on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 02:24:57 PM EST


    Parent
    Actually (none / 0) (#91)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 03:15:53 PM EST
    I would say he actually was worse than IBS if you can believe that.

    Parent
    Well, I nominated him! (none / 0) (#94)
    by observed on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 03:18:51 PM EST


    Parent
    Caught one of those (none / 0) (#65)
    by Towanda on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 02:44:41 PM EST
    attacks when I linked over to the Orange recently, for the first time in a long time, and unknowingly.  Ugh.

    But then, they say that fanatics make the worst converts -- and often renege on their vows vs. the faithful.  I suspect that the Dems may see that soon and may miss the party's faithful.

    Parent

    Wow, I just read part of her latest (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by observed on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 02:54:59 PM EST
    diary. My inner Claude Rains is just as shocked as IBS that Obama is targeting SS and Medicare.
    Shocking, I tell you.
    How could anyone (like me) have predicted that 4 years ago? It's incredible!

    Parent
    Excuse me but (5.00 / 3) (#102)
    by MO Blue on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 03:26:31 PM EST
    Obama told IBS and everyone else that he planned to target SS. When people brought this up as a concern during the primaries, they were run out of the "orange" on a rail by IBS and her cohorts.

    When a Dem politician tells you they are going after SS during a time when the Republicans wouldn't touch the issue with a ten foot pole, maybe it would behoove you to take him seriously and not make up fantasy scenarios to justify his comments and silence others when they highlight the danger.

         

    Parent

    Pssst: "Shocking, I tell you" (5.00 / 1) (#107)
    by Towanda on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 03:29:22 PM EST
    = snark. :-)

    Parent
    Did you see the steam coming out of (5.00 / 1) (#118)
    by MO Blue on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 03:48:29 PM EST
    my ears when you read that comment? Old frustration...

    Parent
    I always look (5.00 / 2) (#133)
    by Towanda on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 04:44:44 PM EST
    for the steam coming out of your ears -- and your comments.  Your information in your comments is sufficient to keep me looking for them, but your informed passion ensures that I will do so!

    Parent
    I said this over and over again at (5.00 / 3) (#114)
    by observed on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 03:39:06 PM EST
    Orangistan, and was met by gangs of howling
    OBFers who called me the worst of names.
    Of course it was obvious.
    It's analogous to when a Republican uses certain coded language about abortion. Obama said SS was an entitlement and "all options were on the table". What more did people need to know???

    Parent
    Never read TINS before, (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 02:29:30 PM EST
    just followed the link recommendation of Burro.  Probably should give him another chance, but, on this issue, he was a mess.

    Parent
    Well (none / 0) (#72)
    by lilburro on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 02:54:49 PM EST
    who do you have to work with other than Obama?  It's not like there is a more liberal candidate running at the moment.  If there was, even if he/she went by the name of Ralph Nader, that would be different, but there's nobody there.

    If even 1/10 of the progressives writing online would become similarly involved and demand that the institutions of the Democratic Party be accountable to the progressive base and the well-polled progressive preferences of the majority of Americans, it would be a boon to our political system.

    That's what I got out of the article.  It's not a new idea, but it's an idea.  It's better than much of the online obsessiveness about the liberal "dream of Obama" which, regardless of what you want to blame (Tea Party, etc.), did not turn out the way people (including TINS) hoped.

    Parent

    TINS (5.00 / 2) (#98)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 03:23:16 PM EST
    is part of the problem. He refused to see Obama for what he was and while it is better than pontificating about the fantasy Obama it's not a whole lot better. Better might be to examine what exactly brought us to this point where we have someone like Obama as the party standard bearer and don't repeat the same mistake again.

    Parent
    TINS idea of demanding (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by MO Blue on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 03:33:42 PM EST
    that the institutions of the Democratic Party be accountable to the progressive base has no teeth since it is founded on the idea that he will promise his vote prior to making his demands. In fact, he is vigorously promoting that very idea even now.  

    No real in the world for the Dems to do anything other than please their corporate sponsors since the rubble is in their pocket no matter what.  

    Parent

    Negotiation (none / 0) (#159)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 05:42:33 PM EST
    by Obama Rules.

    Parent
    I, too, got that part of the TINS article, (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 03:52:05 PM EST
    but, that kernel seemed to be separated from the rest of the cob (need to refashion the party to fit the ideals the American people deserve, an aggressive uncompromising stance is required, need balance neither a hater or a bot, need to work with what we have even though it is a poor lot.   Obama, after all, is just a reflection of 30 years of an evolving culture in the Democratic party where bland messaging .....meets Wall St money and neoliberal economics....) His working idea of working within the party does not seem so promising if we think of Howard Dean--a supporter,  thrown under an already crowded space under the bus.  Perhaps, his thought of the Democratic party going the way of the Whigs, was misplaced in that there did seem a chance in late  2008 for that to be a direction for Republicans, only for that corpse to be resuscitated by  Democrat's bipartisanship.

    Parent
    well . . . (none / 0) (#75)
    by The Addams Family on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 03:00:36 PM EST
    It's not like there is a more liberal candidate running at the moment.

    on Medicare, Obama has now positioned himself to the right of the Tea Party

    the f^cking Tea Party

    but where you gonna go, right?

    i had dinner last weekend with 2 friends, big Obama supporters/cheerleaders

    they are so disillusioned, they told me they are planning to register as Republicans for the CA primary & vote for the Mittster

    they think he will be the least crazy of the GOP field & that this is what it will take for the Dems in Congress to grow a spine

    Parent

    "The least crazy" argument (none / 0) (#108)
    by Towanda on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 03:31:48 PM EST
    has replaced "the lesser of two evils" argument?  Oh, yes, the Dems -- at least, these sorts of Dems -- have made such a contribution to politics and to the country.

    Parent
    seriously (none / 0) (#137)
    by The Addams Family on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 04:57:24 PM EST
    these 2 friends, a straight white "progressive" Berkeley couple in their 40s, were seriously crushed out on Obama

    they had the Fairey Shepard poster over their bed

    remember this?

    just gotta quote squeaks here: lol!

    Parent

    Only 12 more days (none / 0) (#10)
    by lilburro on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 12:33:58 PM EST
    til our economic apocalypse!  Huzzah!

    HuffPo reports that McConnell-Reid is dying.  ...Okay.  And a bigger plan is in reach.  Yeah right.  I still don't see where the GOP gives on taxes.

    It's 4 trillion dimensional chess. (none / 0) (#11)
    by observed on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 12:36:52 PM EST
    Good thing we have a grandmaster on our side!!

    Parent
    Grover Norquist said that letting the Bush-Obama (none / 0) (#13)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 12:57:46 PM EST
    tax cuts for the rich expire would not constitute a break of the 'no tax raises' pledge, which seemed like it was letting the GOP off the hook for supporting the Gang of Six thing....but then his organization 'clarified' and said that if the result of that is a net increase in revenue that it does violate the (stupid) pledge.

    The longer it goes on the more the GOP reverts to form...they spent half the last month complaining that Obama would not say what he is for, and the rest of it reflexively going against anything he supports. Every time I get mad at the Dems, the GOP proves that the GOP, at the very least, still takes the cake for sheer a**holery.

    Parent

    The Grand Bargain returns (5.00 / 2) (#24)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 01:30:05 PM EST
    with more regularity than Freddy Krueger, but with less reason to the plot---unless the plot at this point is to get a compromise, any compromise that will pick-up the failed  Cat Food Commission's recommendations, except for Pentagon cuts.   The Gang of Six seems to be the most viable version probably because it has little or no details--not a budget plan but a precis of now too familiar talking points of real cuts to social safety nets and illusory changes to the tax code (e.g, new taxes may be acceptable, but only with new, and equal tax cuts elsewhere).  

    Parent
    I'm just reading that Obama and (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by Anne on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 01:40:40 PM EST
    Boehner are on the verge of a deal:

    With the government staring at a potential default in less than two weeks, the officials said the administration on Wednesday night notified top members of Congress that a bargain with Mr. Boehner could be imminent. The Congressional leaders, whose help Mr. Obama would need to bring a compromise forward, were told that the new revenue tied to the looming agreement to increase the debt limit by Aug. 2 would be produced in 2012 through a tax code rewrite that would lower individual and corporate rates, close loopholes, end tax breaks and make other adjustments to produce revenue gains.

    Officials knowledgeable about the conversations between the administration and Congressional leaders said the details of the potential package remained unknown but they presumed it would include cuts and adjustments in most federal programs, including Medicare.

    However, officials on all sides of the tense negotiations warned that no firm deal was in hand yet, and tried to downplay the progress -- if only to stave off attempts to block it or influence its shape by hardliners on both sides of the debate on taxes and spending.

    I wonder what it would be like to have an actual Democrat negotiating with the Republicans?

    Oh, wait, since both sides are denying this report, I guess we're just "posturing" again.

    Wish I could shake this feeling that that the only "posturing" that's going to matter is the one that will require us to bend over.  And be grateful that what follows isn't worse.

    Parent

    Like I have said (none / 0) (#74)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 02:59:08 PM EST
    Don't believe anything released because the releases are strategic for one side or another to weaken or strengthen positions.

    The "Obama is caving to a deal with no revenue increase" leak has already been reversed.  Here is the WH communication on twitter just now:

    "Anyone reporting a $3 trillion deal without revenues is incorrect. POTUS believes we need a balanced approach that includes revenues."

    I know you are itching to blast him and you may still get your chance, but it does no one any good to jump to such conclusions when we honestly have no idea what is happening.

    Parent

    The latest gossip (none / 0) (#38)
    by lilburro on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 01:53:09 PM EST
    A Congressional aide briefed on ongoing negotiations between House Speaker John Boehner and President Obama says the two principals may be nearing a "grand bargain" on to raise the debt limit which would contain large, set-in-stone spending cuts but only the possibility of future revenue increases.

    "All cuts," the aide said. "Maybe revenues some time in the future."

    TPM

    How that is really all that different from McConnell-Reid, I cannot tell you.

    Parent

    Apparently (none / 0) (#41)
    by lilburro on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 01:59:43 PM EST
    "aspirational revenue increases" means:

    In early negotiations that ultimately collapsed, Obama and Boehner considered passing a package of spending cuts with a promise to tackle tax reform in the coming months. But -- this is key -- a fail safe written in to the grand bargain would have decoupled most of the Bush tax cuts from those cuts benefiting only top earners. If comprehensive tax reform failed to pass this Congress, those top bracket cuts would expire.

    In terms of secret progressive dealmaking, that isn't terrible.  Depends what the cuts look like I guess.

    Parent

    An NPR correspondent (none / 0) (#125)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 04:03:17 PM EST
    from Capitol Hill was also reporting on "gossip"--the rampant gossip among legislators---apparently they do not know what is going on, and, goodness, they are perplexed since they do not know what to think or what to vote for.  All seem in the dark, what with the secretive negotiations.  However, my guess is that they are no more in the dark than the negotiators, other than they want a compromise now that must include cuts to social safety nets.  For if not now, when?  

    Parent
    How can this be? (5.00 / 2) (#131)
    by coast on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 04:42:11 PM EST
    This is the most open and transparent administration of all time. :)

    Parent
    I would bet there is no final deal (none / 0) (#14)
    by observed on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 01:02:47 PM EST
    by Aug. 2.


    Parent
    I think there will be some form of (none / 0) (#15)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 01:08:32 PM EST
    a deal to make a deal, and the debt ceiling vote will pass.

    Parent
    Yep, more opportunities for (none / 0) (#34)
    by observed on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 01:43:34 PM EST
    Obama to show his stuff at negotiation.

    Parent
    Everytime I see Grover Norquist (none / 0) (#35)
    by lilburro on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 01:48:43 PM EST
    he is about 100 years younger than I expect him to be.

    Norquist came up in something I was reading earlier this week, Mahablog quoting Joan Walsh.  I seem to remember being an extremely impassioned Obama supporter, so to read her now is interesting.  Anyway Joan said:

    But there's a deeper problem here: The fact that pundits and talking heads have become a stand-in for a politically engaged left. I watched GOP macher Grover Norquist on "Hardball" Monday; he was terrible. I realized I hadn't seen much of Norquist on TV before, and he's really not very good at it. But why should he care? By forcing his no new taxes pledge on Republicans, via Americans for Tax Reform, he's become one of the most powerful men in the country. I'm trying to think of Democratic activists who have had a comparable impact their party, and I can't. Instead, the relationship of the Democratic base, and progressives, to Obama and to his constituency is weirdly defined by talking heads, whether Huffington or Keith Olbermann or Rachel Maddow or Chris Matthews or the welcome new addition, perhaps temporary, of Rev. Al Sharpton to the MSNBC lineup.

    To which Barbara at Mahablog says the Right is orchestrated by a few individuals; the Left lacks that and lefties aren't very good followers anyway.  

    My take is that there are a lot of lefty blogs and lefty readers...I guess they are just poorly organized as such.  There is potential there though.

    Anyway, the two parties function very differently.  Not entirely differently, both have their corporate overlords.  But differently.  And obviously in the GOP's case, they function more effectively.  Democrats have to figure out a way to counter that.  Complaining about the Tea Party for 6 years is not going to make the country a better place.

    Parent

    When you enough indivuals (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by jondee on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 02:46:28 PM EST
    who believe all the important, vital, ideas and ideals have ALREADY all been conceived and codified for all time, it makes it a lot easier to organize people and keep them organized.

    Also, according to people who've been close to Norquist, the guy is practically Ahabian (with "big government" as the white whale).. on a single-minded, obsessed, libertarian jihad. Which doesn't make the guy a lot of fun to be around even for the people who agree with him. He sounds almost like a right wing Trotsky.

    Parent

    Bathing in the blood (none / 0) (#46)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 02:16:19 PM EST
    of virgins does wonders for the skin.

    Parent
    lilburro: Wars & rumors of wars.... (none / 0) (#39)
    by christinep on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 01:55:09 PM EST
    and rumors of whats in & whats out. As Sargent notes in the WashPo today, the turn may come when the House Repubs (&, IMO, everyone) faces the "here-we-are" abyss of the situation...and things that served as mirages or whatever today will look different in a few days.

    IMO, the more expansive plans are out there...for awhile, and not for long because the numbers are not there & there is too much antipathy on either side for grand/big deals effecting materially sacred cows on either side. The WH knows that. (It has a feel--not unexpected--of the one last swirl time or "go play, boys & girls, for a few more days before you tire a bit & get real.")

    After waltzing with all the big ideas and in the absence of a deus ex machina, the Reid/McConnell negotiations may be the real thing that is left by next week.

    Parent

    I don't understand how you can keep (5.00 / 2) (#57)
    by Anne on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 02:33:56 PM EST
    avoiding the one thing we know is going to happen: spending cuts.  In all the deals being discussed, that is the ever-present element.  

    And how do you also avoid the truth that cuts in spending do not create jobs?  More people working will start to reverse the downward spiral, but that's just not going to happen as long as spending cuts are the price paid for raising the debt ceiling.

    There is nothing that's going to make that look different, not now, not in a couple days, not ever.

    Whether it's kabuki or posturing or multi-dimensional chess, you also cannot avoid another truth: that a Democratic president, with the assistance of other Democrats, put cuts to the social safety net on the table - and you don't do that, you don't take the chance your bluff will be called, if you have a deep belief not just in the integrity of these programs, but in the responsibility government has to its citizens.  That door is now open, and going forward, whether or not these proposed changes happen now, it will be nearly impossible to close it.

    As for antipathy, you can't be serious.  This is a president who revels in ticking off the left, who uses the label "the left" the way others use the f-word - as an expletive; resistance from the right, on the other hand, is met with accommodation that borders on the obsequious - the president's temper tantrum the other day notwithstanding.  I mean, how many times can he accommodate before we stop pretending - well, before you stop pretending - that it isn't a pattern?

    At the heart of this whole goat rodeo is what I see as an inescapable reality: the cuts are coming, they are going to hurt, and they are not going to do diddly-squat to move the economy in the right direction; all we're really talking about now is just how bad it's going to be, who it's going to hurt the most, and how bad the pain is going to be.

    When I think of all the many, many times the debt ceiling has been raised almost as an administrative matter, and then consider how this president has used it to drive a decidedly non-Democratic agenda, I truly could just weep.

    Oh, darn - there I go, getting all "emotional"...

    Parent

    Yup. Spending cuts = job cuts (none / 0) (#68)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 02:46:30 PM EST
    Just what we don't need.

    Parent
    What if the spending cuts (none / 0) (#76)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 03:00:40 PM EST
    don't happen for 3 years and the recession is over?

    You still oppose the cuts right.

    #keepitreal

    Parent

    what if frogs had wings? (5.00 / 4) (#80)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 03:04:50 PM EST
    they wouldn't be bumping their a$$es hoppin' around.

    Parent
    #NewFriedmanUnit (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by The Addams Family on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 03:05:07 PM EST


    Parent
    I will always oppose cuts to (5.00 / 4) (#85)
    by caseyOR on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 03:08:05 PM EST
    Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. And when are cuts to WIC and food stamps ever a good thing?

    Want to cut $4 trillion over the next decade? Let the Bush/Obama tax cuts expire. Want to save some money on Medicare? Have the government negotiate the cost of drugs like they do for the VA. There is no good policy reason to give Big Pharma that windfall.

    There you go, big cut in the deficit, and nobody has to eat cat food.

    Parent

    Will the recession (none / 0) (#82)
    by lilburro on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 03:05:13 PM EST
    be over in 3 years?  That doesn't seem clear.

    Parent
    OK (none / 0) (#84)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 03:07:56 PM EST
    Make it 5 years.  I think it will be over by then.

    The point is that i don't think someone like Anne, for example, is going to be willing to agree to any entitlements or spending changes then either.  

    As with conservatives, the arguments will change to support the objective.

    I have been thinking about this a lot lately because the two poles are very different but in that way are more alike than people would be happy to admit.

    Parent

    But they're really not alike (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by lilburro on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 03:16:30 PM EST
    I have been thinking about this a lot lately because the two poles are very different but in that way are more alike than people would be happy to admit.

    Because 5 years ago, Democrats did not want any changes to SS, Medicare, or Medicaid.  And 5 years ago, what Obama offered to Boehner would've been snapped up immediately by the GOP.

    5 years later, Dems are still in the same position - don't touch the safety net, it's not necessary.  You do a disservice to Democrats to act like that's a radical position.

    Parent

    Entitlements (5.00 / 4) (#101)
    by Dadler on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 03:26:13 PM EST
    That you can equate help for the poor and elderly with lavish and necessary and factually destructive (history, history, history) tax breaks for the wildly wealthy, and see those as equivalent morally in terms of party hardline stances, well, I really cannot wrap my mind around the lack of logic.  But if one views politics on ONLY a game to be won or lost in the short-term election cycle, then I suppose virtually all proposals are negotiable (i.e. disposable).

    Parent
    proposals should be "principles" (none / 0) (#104)
    by Dadler on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 03:27:26 PM EST


    Parent
    Entitlement or spending "changes"-- (5.00 / 4) (#132)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 04:44:11 PM EST
    Where is the case for cutting social security benefits?  And who has made it, other than Alan Simpson and Pete Peterson--and that case is based on ideology and a desire to give Wall St. a chance. Are benefit cuts needed now to avoid possibly being able to pay only 80 percent of benefits in 27 years?  Are there other ways to "strengthen" social security, such as raising the maximum taxable earnings, as then Senator Obama once proposed?  Does the chained indexing make sense  or is it fair for the social security beneficiary demographic?  

    The president has acknowledged as did his failed Cat Food Commission that social security does not contribute to the deficit.  Now, if all these options can be explored at other than a Peterson Foundation Forum, and the answer is yes, we must cut social security benefits, it is the only possible way, and , after all,  that $12,000 a year for old timers is just too much, then maybe we can consider it.   Now, for "savings" in  Medicaid and Medicare---different but similar thinking for any "changes", including the complex issue of the progress of health care and its dissimilarities to the purchase of widgets.

    Parent

    According to most economists (none / 0) (#99)
    by CoralGables on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 03:25:16 PM EST
    it ended two years ago.

    Parent
    Then I would examine cuts on a case by case (none / 0) (#95)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 03:19:07 PM EST
    basis, as long as defense cuts were also in the mix. Which they are not at the moment.

    For SS, I would agree to tweak in the form of a lift in the FICA ceiling, and I am not against means testing after a person has reached a certain level of benefits accrual. For example, if someone has contributed x amount over their lifetime and gotten x + n% back already, I don't think it is unfair to means-test the rest.

    Medicare - i think there is no way around the eventual need for single payer-for-all. The sooner we get there the better. Any other discussion of health care is meaningless to me. To Congress: Leave it alone until you are ready to talk turkey n single payer.

    Parent

    The level of means testing for the (5.00 / 3) (#116)
    by MO Blue on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 03:43:19 PM EST
    chained CPI is 125% of poverty or a little over $13,000 a year but only for the first 5 years. After that, I guess their benefits can be cut since they won't effect Obama's reelection chances.

    When it comes to taxes people making $200,000 to billions they are too poor to pay a penny more but people making over $13,000 can have their benefits cut until they too reach poverty levels.

    With the chained CPI, people making $20,000 a year will be pushed into a higher tax bracket and will realize a 14% tax increase.

    Parent

    I was thinking of means testing (none / 0) (#124)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 04:03:13 PM EST
    in terms of people not getting as much from SS if they already have other sources of income. I'm against the chained CPI thing too. I didn't understand the thinking behind it until they explained it on NPR this morning. I see no reason to assume that if prices go up on some things, people just buy something else cheaper so there is really not much appreciable increase in their cost of living. I'd have to see some data on that.

    Parent
    Seniors on a limited income will find (none / 0) (#166)
    by MO Blue on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 06:01:44 PM EST
    it impossible to replace many of the bare necessities with cheaper items. Cutting way back on food means you can not purchase healthy food items. You really can't shop around for cheaper utilities. Also seniors benefits will continue to go down the older that they get. Most people are required to spend more of their incomes on medical care as they age. So the more their needs increase the less money that they will have. For most this will not be a case of purchasing a cheaper big screen TV or getting a smaller yacht. suszi (sp) provided this link of Rep. DeFazio explaining the chained CPI.

    Parent
    Any President needs the votes. for legislation (none / 0) (#172)
    by christinep on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 06:38:34 PM EST
    ...including raising the debt ceiling. Not words; numbers.

    Parent
    Google Music Rocks (none / 0) (#29)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 01:36:31 PM EST
    Google has a new Beta Music function that is fricken awesome.

    Took 10 days to upload my entire music collection, around 70GBs mainly because home internet uploads at like an eight of the speed it downloads.

    Anyways, I now have access to all of my music anywhere with internet.  You can stream or download.  I use it at work on my PC and in my car using my phone.

    It syncs with all my devises, so if I get music on one, it will upload and make available to all.  Plus the one biggest benefits, a copy of my music collection online.  No more worrying about a double harddrive crash or some crazy virus.

    Best new product this year IMO, and of course it's free.

    Won't upload DRM music.

    The thing that really surprise me is that it makes copying music so easy I can't believe it's legal.  Anyone I give my Google account info and password to could download the entire library and upload theirs.

    Just Google 'google music' and request an invitation, took about a month for me, that but that was months ago, a couple of friends got theirs in a couple days.

    Interesting! (none / 0) (#42)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 02:01:29 PM EST
    Sounds like the competition to what Apple is going to do for $25 per year. They will look at your itunes library and if you have not bought that song from itunes they will replace it with a high quality version in their cloud, that of course will be available all the time on all your Apple devices.

    The advantage for me is that I have 300 or so cds that I ripped years ago there was not such high quality ripping available, so they will replace those with better quality. I'll have to decide if the $25 a year is worth it, but will probably go with it.  

    Parent

    question - when you say (none / 0) (#48)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 02:18:34 PM EST
    Anyone I give my Google account info and password to could download the entire library and upload theirs

    Is it true that you actually download it, or just stream it from the cloud using your music player? You're right, it is hard to believe they could get away with the former.

    Parent

    I'd rather have (none / 0) (#180)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 07:28:51 PM EST
    the music on my iphone, ipod, ipad and computers. Why would you need the internet when you have it on your devices?  Internet connections are still spotty in a lot of places. At lunch today, I couldn't even get online in the restaurant (ground floor, heart of downtown Denver) with any of my devices (using AT&T) and either could my dining companion using Sprint.

    At the gym, which is another place I listen to music and watch videos while on the treadmill, an internet connection wouldn't be of much use, but I can plug my iphone/ipod right into it and watch on the large HD monitor attached to the machine. I watched a whole season of 24 that way. The 45 minutes just flew by.

    Also, online music/videos online glitch and take time to load. When I find one I like, either on a you tube or a tv station's website (like for musical performances on Letterman or Leno) I use an FLV recorder to save it on my hard drive and then convert it to mp4 (or whatever the format is) and upload it to iTunes. Then it plays and views flawlessly on every device I have - desktop, laptop, iPod, iPhone, IPad. I also can edit out the annoying commercials that are so prevalent on you tube these days.

    New cars these days come with hard drives in the music system so you can upload your entire music library and then don't need to plug anything in.

    Parent

    Showing my ignorance (none / 0) (#183)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 07:54:19 PM EST
    What's an FLV recorder, Jeralyn? I'd love to download some old videos and not have them skip.

    Parent
    Let's be honest (none / 0) (#79)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 03:03:45 PM EST
    We would have just as much hate for spending cuts even if the economy were cruising along well and unemployment was at 5% in just the same way that the conservatives want tax cuts/oppose increases regardless of whether the economy is in a boom or bust.

    We just don't want SS or other entitlements touched in any way and the conservatives don't want tax increases under any circumstances.

    The only question is how honest each side is going to be about it.

    Well yeah (5.00 / 3) (#86)
    by lilburro on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 03:10:27 PM EST
    federal spending supports a lot of programs - CHIP, food stamps, etc.  I'd have to be convinced cuts were necessary in a good economy.  I think that's a fair position.

    The GOP has gotten a lot more radical.  No tax increases whatsoever is radical.  Protecting the safety net was never radical.  

    Parent

    the Scaifes, Kochs and Coors etc (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by jondee on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 03:22:07 PM EST
    think a safety net IS radical: "the first step toward.." "the nanny state.." etc etc

    And they call the tune on the right.

    Parent

    They can think that (5.00 / 4) (#105)
    by lilburro on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 03:27:57 PM EST
    Dems shouldn't think that.

    What is the point in "cutting entitlements" other than to cause little people pain so as to pave the way for "greater political cooperation" to attain completely unspecified ends?  Are we going to fix global warming?  What's going to happen?  

    Leave money in the budget for the GOP and they'll just go to war with it.  Seriously.

    Parent

    they belong to same country clubs (none / 0) (#120)
    by jondee on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 03:52:43 PM EST
    meet with same lobbyists, and are offered the same type of jobs from the same type of people when they leave office. Most of them have never been poor, hungry, malnourished, or seriously in need of assistance (with anything besides campaign contributions) or personally known anyone who has..

    And people expect them to give a sh*t about whether people see them as "acting like Democrats". Not likely.

    As Warren Beatty's character, Sen. Jay Bulworth said in that movie: "who're you gonna vote for? The Republicans? You're not gonna vote for the Republicans.."

    Parent

    I quite open and honest about this. (5.00 / 4) (#88)
    by caseyOR on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 03:12:48 PM EST
    There is no good reason to make any cuts to the safety net. It already frayed almost to the point of no return.

    I will never support cuts to SS. Want to cut the cost of Medicare? Start negotiating the price of drugs. Stop paying so frikken' much more to private insurance companies for Medicare Advantage than we pay for regular Medicare. See, no good reason to increase premiums, deductibles or co-pays.

    Parent

    Strange comment. (5.00 / 2) (#89)
    by observed on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 03:12:59 PM EST
    It reads as if written by someone who is embarrassed to admit supporting SS and Medicare.


    Parent
    The Ds and Rs... (5.00 / 4) (#90)
    by Dadler on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 03:14:15 PM EST
    ...are equally dishonest and have been for some time.  This entire sham is a waste of time, effort and resources.  The notion, after throwing trillions of dollars without question at wars and plutocrats, tthat old people on SS and medicare, and poor people on medicaid, are the economic problem is a lie of inexcusable proportion.  

    Corruption rules this nation, and corruption is currently in the process of skimming more from the people who need help the most.

    Wake me up when someone wants to actually face reality, instead of the manufactured type we have to sit through now.  

    But the average person has absolutely no voice in the one dollar/one vote reality of our fetid political system.


    Parent

    What spending cuts? (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 03:26:40 PM EST
    I'd have to hear more specifics. Cuts to the safety net for those not benefiting from this new good economy - no. Cuts that kill other programs I support - no, of course not. Cuts to things I do not support - sure.

    My bottom line on SS is absolutely NO privatization. That is what Bush proposed that I so violently objected to. I recognize that minor tweaks have to be made from time to time. Raise the FICA cap and it would mostly take care of it.

    Parent

    We wouldn't need spending cuts if the (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by Anne on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 03:28:28 PM EST
    economy was cruising along - that's the whole point of getting people back to work.  Working people contribute to revenue and require fewer government services.  And, lookie at all those contributions to the safety net!  More people working, more people paying in to SS and Medicare.

    Duh.

    It isn't that we "just" don't want the safety net touched, it's that there is an inherent dishonesty in talking about "preserving" it by reducing the benefits to be paid.  The goal should be to both preserve the program and the benefits - even improve on them - but golly, we can't even consider raising the wage ceiling, can we?  

    I'd seriously like to suggest that you consider not using the word "honest" in any of its forms until you have a better idea what it means.

    Parent

    Your argument here is... weird. Slashing and (5.00 / 4) (#115)
    by tigercourse on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 03:39:41 PM EST
    burning government spending in a time of contraction or stagnation is far more dangerous then during a time of expansion. There is a decent economic argument to be made for pulling back on out of control growth during boom times. Arguing that a time of low employment is the perfect oppurtunity to fight against growth is ... weird.

    Parent
    Let's be honest. (5.00 / 12) (#117)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 03:47:03 PM EST
    Unemployment right now is GRIM. When the economy works, there may be some job out there that's a little out of a person's given field, or maybe with less pay...

    Right now, THERE ARE ALMOST NO JOBS.

    Social Security remains a promise. Medicare remains a promise.

    I was in Wal-mart yesterday watching three elderly African American ladies check out in front of me. The reason race matters in this context? Through even the late 1960s, most African Americans in the South did not get the opportunity to pay in to Social Security. Now you want to change the way cost of living adjustments are made, or cut benefits, in the name of some nebulous notion of a "Grand Compromise." One of the ladies had to put back three bars of soap because she didn't have enough money to get it. Sure, she probably didn't pay much in, but she's probably a widow, so her husband's benefits ought to be larger than hers, right?

    WRONG! Systematic racial discrimination meant that neither good jobs nor social security were readily available to African Americans in much of the country!

    I didn't know the lady, but I know the situation well... spent too much time studying this, and know too many elderly African Americans who get a pittance from Social Security. That check is their ONLY retirement.

    Dear GOD! Let me tell you a story about a fellow named jeffinalabama. His position got RIF'wd. That means Reduction In Force... it's the same as being fired.

    Jeffinalabama is an older worker. Discrimination against older workers exists.

    Jeffinalabama gets diagnosed with cancer. He and the doctors are trying to get everything scheduled before insurance runs out, because unemployment compensation pays less than 20 percent of what his wages were. Waiting to find out how much the bite will be.

    Jeffinalabama has some expenses that have to be paid. Child support, rent, car payment/insurance to be able to keep looking for work, go to interviews, etc. Add COBRA to the mix.

    No more payments on any bills or obligations except the car. Why? because x comes in, while with all of the bills, 2x needs to be going out. When making 5x, not a problem. when making x, what do you do?

    Jeffinalabama will not be eligible for unemployment following surgery for a few weeks. Why? Unemployment compensation depends on ABILITY to work, not simply being unemployed. That means income will be x*0. Remember basic math? x*0=0.

    So... how to pay for COBRA with no income? Without COBRA, what are the medical expenses going to do? Guess. Either not get covered, or treatments won't continue.

    How much do you know about short-term (under 12 months, or non-terminal) disability from Social Security? Do you know how much one is eligible for?  The answer is zero. No short-term disability EXISTS from the government.

    So your talk about cutting benefits is not just some intellectual exercise. The idea of cutting benefits means that, God forbid, I have a year-long recovery, I won't get either Social Security, disability, or unemployment. Only if I'm considered permanently disabled will I get Social Security disability.

    People in the real world have hard jobs. They get tired. they get swollen feet, high blood pressure, and don't even have time or money to eat healthy foods or join gyms. I have to right now, because there's no free gym, and I MUST lose between 25 ans 35 pounds before my surgery.

    Anyone who thinks that Reagan's 'Welfare Queens' ever actually existed, or that people are living on chicken and wine from disability or social security is not thinking.

    Wealthier people don't have the same worries as poorer people. Wealthier people have better access to medical care. Wealthier people have better diets, and jobs that put fewer strains on the body.

    Wake up and smell the coffee, Angry. President Obama's grand deal does NOT help the people of the United States. IT does, actually HURT people.

    To quote Linus Pauli, the great physicist. Obama's plans and directions "Aren't right. They aren't even wrong."

    In other words, the assumptions used to come up with the proposals were so screwed up that the end result may well be complete and utter trash.

    Thanks for putting me out on the ice floe because I can no longer chew the fat, buddy. I appreciate it.

    Why not end a war or two, end some military expenditures? Or better yet, how about picking up my COBRA and child support payments for me?

    There's a human face to all of this inside-the-beltway negotiating  crap. But a whole buttload of folks aren't thinking of the cost in human misery, stress, or anxiety. I would suggest that you fall into that category, the "Can't-make-an-omelet-without-breaking-eggs" type of guy. Well, when your eggs get broken, remember what you rallied for.

    Process remains important. But I think you've forgotten about outcomes.

    Parent

    I don't usually rate comments, (5.00 / 7) (#122)
    by caseyOR on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 04:02:50 PM EST
    but this comment gets a 25 from me, Jeff.

    I have gotten quite fed up with commenters here and other places who seem oblivious to the fact that this is not a game, that real people will be affected in real ways that will cause them real harm.

    Parent

    I absolutely agree, casey (5.00 / 4) (#126)
    by Zorba on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 04:06:37 PM EST
    There are people suffering, people hurting, people without homes, children going to bed hungry and/or without proper medical care.  This isn't just numbers in a ledger.  It is people, real people.  When a country cannot take care of "the least of these, my brethren," that country has lost it's way and lost its very soul.

    Parent
    Agree 100% (none / 0) (#190)
    by MO Blue on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 08:14:12 PM EST
    with the idea that Jeff's comment deserves a 25 and and I share your sentiments:

    I have gotten quite fed up with commenters here and other places who seem oblivious to the fact that this is not a game, that real people will be affected in real ways that will cause them real harm.

     

    Parent

    Jeff, this is simply (5.00 / 6) (#123)
    by Zorba on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 04:02:55 PM EST
    one of the best, most heart-rending comments I have read in a great while.  I agree with you 100%.  And dear G*d, I want to come down there and give you (and everyone else in a similar situation, of which there are far too many, unfortunately) a big hug.  Be well (from my keyboard to G*d's eyes), my friend, and try to think positive thoughts- I know it's hard, but I think it will help the healing process.  Peace and love.  

    Parent
    Thank you Zorba and CaseyOR... (5.00 / 2) (#127)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 04:20:54 PM EST
    I've noticed that since getting RIFed, witnessing firsthand the absolute incompetence in ICE, State, and DHS, then getting diagnosed with cancer, some of my self-imposed filters don't get imposed any more. I regret I made a mistake above, it was Wolfgang Pauli. I always want to conflate Linus Pauling to Wolfgang Pauli when I'm upset.

    I'm ready, or soon will be, physically, mentally and emotionally to lead folks to the barricades and to organize them into a cohesive internally supportive organization.

    For the longest time, I have had grave reservations about Thomas Jefferson's "tree of liberty" statement. As the situation on the ground makes me more radicalized, that position becomes much more tenable.

    Dammit, I was in a great mood for a while after that workout.

    Parent

    Well, Jeff, I'm sorry that bad things (5.00 / 5) (#130)
    by caseyOR on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 04:40:57 PM EST
    are happening to you, but losing your filters is a good thing. The time for circumspection and politeness is long past.

    Give me about another 4 weeks and my fractured ankle should be fixed and this air cast off. At that point I'll meet you at the barricades.

    And, in solidarity, I've decided to join you on the no-carb, lose weight plan. I need to drop about 30-40 lbs. myself if I want to be in any kind of fighting trim. If these cuts to SS go through, I may not be able to afford much in the way of food. So, might as well start now getting used to a much lower daily calorie intake.

    We can be a lose weight, get fit, fight the revolution support group.

    At some point people will reach their breaking point, and all hell will break lose in this country. I want to be as prepared as possible before that happens.

    Parent

    Save some room (5.00 / 4) (#134)
    by Zorba on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 04:47:07 PM EST
    at the barricades for me, too, mes amis.  My cane and I will be there.

    Parent
    Somebody has to operate (5.00 / 0) (#139)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 04:58:15 PM EST
    the radios or cell phones and concentrate on that... it's a fairly static position at a higher hq level ;-)

    Parent
    Hey, just because (5.00 / 2) (#143)
    by Zorba on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 05:21:38 PM EST
    I have a cane, doesn't mean I can only man the phones!  I can't run very fast, but I can wield a cane with the best of them!  I have some experience (in my very young life), after all, with the anti-Vietnam War movement.   ;-)  

    Parent
    Also, Zorba, people who can grow food (5.00 / 1) (#157)
    by caseyOR on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 05:38:04 PM EST
    will be critical. I don't think we can count on the usual big food conglomerates to keep us supplied. Besides, at some point we won't be able to afford their prices. I'm a decent gardener, but, based on what I have read in your comments, not at your level.

    IIRC, you are living on a mountain (or what passes for a mountain in the east, anyway) which means communications signals from your place should be less susceptible to interference.

    I do agree that being handy with your cane could prove useful.

    Parent

    Communications signals, (none / 0) (#168)
    by Zorba on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 06:08:56 PM EST
    at least via cell phones, are non-existent up here- no reception.  We'd have to get satellite phones.  Or use smoke signals.  ;-)

    Parent
    Old school solution: (none / 0) (#185)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 07:58:58 PM EST
    sound-powered telephone and running commo wire. Or battery powered phones... just need 2 d-cell batteries, but they work without them, too, after a fashion.

    Parent
    Good ideas (none / 0) (#187)
    by Zorba on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 08:05:14 PM EST
    You've been thinking about this, haven't you?  

    Parent
    Remember when I told (5.00 / 1) (#191)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 08:17:30 PM EST
    ABG that in the Army, there are contingencies for everything, including alien invasion? Well, I like to think, and come up with plans... can't help it. Plans for how to shop more efficiently and cheaper, living off the grid, what I'll do next year when Dadler and Jim and Kdog and I are the final 4 at the Main Event...

    I guess it used to be called daydreaming. I like to think of it as "free flowing planning optimization."

    Parent

    Not an insult! (none / 0) (#146)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 05:25:10 PM EST
    Recall in the book Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, Augusta Longbottom came to fight, cane, vulture hat, and all.

    Running comms is one EXTREMELY important mission. We'll make sure you have a place close to the shield wall, but behind it, so you can hear what's being transmitted ;-)

    Parent

    No umbrage taken (5.00 / 2) (#153)
    by Zorba on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 05:31:21 PM EST
    But listen up, jeff, we may be screaming left-wing pinko-commie semi-hippie liberals, but living way out in the boonies as we do, we are armed (shotguns, rifles, and a legal hand gun), and we know how to use them.  We also have enough food stored, and the ability to hunt, fish, and grow more, that if things totally go to pot, we can take care of ourselves, and a bunch of others, too.  You are welcome to come up to the mountains of Western Maryland.  ;-)

    Parent
    Thanks. (5.00 / 1) (#154)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 05:33:46 PM EST
    I can farm, and I once learned a recipe for home made white lightning!

    Parent
    Bring it along! (5.00 / 2) (#156)
    by Zorba on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 05:35:09 PM EST
    Mr. Z can make a mighty fine mead (honey wine) and beer, too!

    Parent
    Got enough room for me to join you (5.00 / 2) (#160)
    by caseyOR on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 05:43:19 PM EST
    up on that mountain, Zorba? As I said in another comment, I can garden.

    Sadly, with the way things are going, I'm only half kidding about moving to your mountain. I am genuinely worried about whether or not I will be able to survive any cuts to SS (and that includes chained CPI). Pay the rent or buy food. Hell of a choice to have to make.

    Parent

    Sweetie, we've got (5.00 / 1) (#164)
    by Zorba on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 05:56:33 PM EST
    plenty of room.  The house is small, but we've got a huge barn and several outbuildings that can be converted to dwellings.  Wood stoves, two smokers and one grill, and 40 acres of trees, if worse comes to worst.  I'm not so worried about us, but I am worried about our two kids finding jobs, so it may be "the more, the merrier."

    Parent
    We may all have to join you (5.00 / 1) (#192)
    by MO Blue on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 08:19:43 PM EST
    on your mountain top. I guess I could learn to love guns in exchange for food. ;o)

    Parent
    Apparently, (5.00 / 1) (#135)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 04:47:15 PM EST
    white wine is okay in moderation. I guess that means no more than two bottles a night?

    I agree. People are angry right now, and they can't put up with much more, no matter how many american idols, dancing with the stars, pageant children, bad girls, godzilla weddings, hey... if there's no NFL or no NBA, people might just begin to wake up.

    Ever seen the movie "They Live," by John Carpenter? I didn't get that it was a documentary, lol.

    Parent

    Pass on the white and stick to the red... (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by vml68 on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 04:58:01 PM EST
    and maybe keep it to one bottle a night... :-)
    Thanks for answering the question about the Catalan lessons.

    Speaking of solidarity, have decided to join Casey and you on the weight loss bandwagon. Can I please start on Monday?

    Parent

    Indulge in your favorites this weekend! (5.00 / 1) (#141)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 05:02:40 PM EST
    Pizza, different breads... beer for me was the one I cried over (not really). If you decide to wait a few more days, heck, this party's always going on for at least the next 12 weeks, and maybe longer. I've decided to set a target weight about 54 pounds lighter than I am now. As I approach it, I may decide on even more, because I used to be wiry, and wouldn't mind seeing that again.

    Mutual support. You've got my email, and I've got Casey's if she's willing for me to give it!

    Parent

    I love bread and pasta (none / 0) (#150)
    by vml68 on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 05:27:36 PM EST
    in any shape or form or flavor. So that is going to hurt. Don't have much of a sweet tooth, exception dark chocolate. And, my alcohol consumption has amounted to a few sips of wine in the last year and a half due to two pregnancies. Lost the babies did not lose the weight gained.

    Btw, never did get your e-mail address. Thought you decided not to share.

    Parent

    I'm so sorry (5.00 / 1) (#165)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 05:59:42 PM EST
    about the pregnancies. What a devastating and tragic thing to happen. My heart goes out to you.

    Parent
    Oh, so very sorry (5.00 / 1) (#170)
    by Zorba on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 06:20:56 PM EST
    about the pregnancies, vml68.  Peace and much love.

    Parent
    Thank-you all for your kind words. (5.00 / 4) (#200)
    by vml68 on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 09:40:08 PM EST
    I will admit that losing my second pregnancy was tough because I found out she had a fatal defect and I made the decision to terminate. I had just enough time to do it before the legal cut-off.

    This has been an incredible eye-opener for me mostly due to my own willful blindness/ignorance. It is hard for me to feel too sorry for myself because through support groups, I have spoken to some incredible women who did not have it as "easy" as I did. My perinatologist was wonderful, after giving me his diagnosis, he called specialists at other hospitals and got me in to see them for second opinions without me having to wait for appointments. After, it was determined that there was not much hope, his office staff took care of everything, finding me a dr who would perform the tx, making my appointment with him and with the hospital and my insurance covered every penny with no copays. All I had to do was show up.

    Many of the women I have been in touch with have not been so fortunate. They have had to take care of every detail themselves, figure out how they were going to pay for it because their insurance would not cover the procedure or because they did not have insurance at all. Some had to travel to different states and do it secretly because they got no support from their doctors or families.
    It angers, frustrates and saddens me that this great nation cannot provide the level of care that I got to everyone. It should be a right not a privelege.
    Sorry for the rant, I had to get this off my chest.
    When I read Jeff's posts about trying to get his surgery done before his insurance runs out, it just brings it all back and makes me furious.
    Since I am not a citizen, I can't even call my congressman or senator to give them an earful.

    Parent

    vml68, how awful that you lost the babies. (5.00 / 1) (#174)
    by caseyOR on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 06:44:30 PM EST
    I am so sorry. I can't even imagine how hard that must be.

    Parent
    So sorry about the babies (5.00 / 1) (#193)
    by MO Blue on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 08:37:15 PM EST
    My daughter had 3 miscarriages before carrying full term. I know how hard it was for her and the rest of the family.

    She now has two beautiful boys who are thriving both in body and spirit.

    Hope you have the same success that my daughter did in her last two pregnancies.

    BTW, dark chocolate is the best. There are some 70% dark chocolate bar that are only 100 calories and have only 7 grams of carbs. Can still lose weight if you have one every now and then.

    Parent

    jeffinalabama (none / 0) (#152)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 05:29:28 PM EST
    at gmail dot com

    Parent
    The thing that (none / 0) (#136)
    by Zorba on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 04:54:38 PM EST
    I'm most afraid of is that it will be the extreme right-wing, fringe, Tea Party, minuteman types that will be out, fomenting revolution against what they see as the "socialist agenda."  Too many on the other side (I like to think, "our" side) will shake their heads, frown, and "tsk, tsk" in their living rooms, rather than fight.  I'm ready to fight against the corporatist, right-wing, pseudo-libertarian, semi-theocratic take-over, if it comes to that, old and disabled as I am, and you and a few others here and there are, but how many does that make?

    Parent
    Hey, I'm willing to join (5.00 / 1) (#194)
    by MO Blue on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 08:40:30 PM EST
    Another aged warrior, bad knee, bad back and all.

    Parent
    Zorba, the folks funding (none / 0) (#151)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 05:28:51 PM EST
    that stuff give less than a damn about them. They are just useful idiots. And once they open their eyes, a lot would think, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend, at least temporarily."

    Besides, we'll have better command and control.

    (Hypothetically, in our new board battle game we're developing, NSA)

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    LOL! (5.00 / 1) (#176)
    by Zorba on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 06:58:54 PM EST
    I hope you're right.  And at least we have better food.   ;-)

    Parent
    Thank you. I see the 25 on this (5.00 / 6) (#140)
    by Towanda on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 04:58:49 PM EST
    and double it.

    Just the first part alone is so important, trying to educate people to how many women and minorities were deliberately constructed out of Social Security from the start, with its criteria.  I am trying to help an elderly African American woman here, in her 70s, too proud to take "charity" after having worked all of her life -- but with hardly any SS.  So our neighborhood is giving her "work" (a bit of dusting, a lot of chatting:-), but she deserves to put up her feet and rest. . . .

    As for the rest of your comment, that also ought to be a letter to the editor, an op-ed, or somehow disseminated to educate those in the public who think that you are, and I quote a Tea Partier I heard, "an entitled 21st century welfare queen"!

    (Translated: a teacher, a public employee, who apparently never paid a cent for benefits but now expects everyone else to take care of you.  As if.  Your pride shines through, Jeff, as much as does your hurt at being treated this way by the people you served in uniform and then served as a teacher -- and want to continue to so serve.)

    Parent

    Towanda, feel free (5.00 / 3) (#144)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 05:22:30 PM EST
    to use any and all, just make sure to correct the 'Linus' to "Wolfgang.'

    Make it your own, anything to help the cause. Poor people matter too.

    My mother almost lost tenure for my father 50 years ago by insisting our maid had Social Security taken out-- because the employer had to match it.

    The fat cats and old-money folks, including parts of the state government, fought against offering social security to 'menial laborers' as they were called. It's a forgotten part of history. I'm shocked and saddened that ABG doesn't know what happened to African Americans from the onset of social security up to the late 1960s. What has happened to history education k-12?

    Oh, I know, those damned Texas-approved books.

    I wish more people would read "A People's History of the United States," by Howard Zinn, I think...

    Parent

    Jeff, you should post this as a diary (5.00 / 5) (#181)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 07:41:26 PM EST
    I just changed your permissions to diarist. On the right side of your screen you should see a "new diary" link where you can post it, and other writings. We're all interested in your progress, and I think it would be great for you to have your own threads.

    By the way, any of you regular readers who want to write diaries rather than just being in comments, if you just email me and let me know, I'll be glad to change your permissions from user to diarist.

    Parent

    Thank you Jeralyn, (5.00 / 3) (#182)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 07:51:51 PM EST
    I am honored by your adding me as a diarist.

     I'll do a rewrite and post it. I think there are two themes I should examine here.

    This will also give me the opportunity to chronicle this process, and also the examination I'm doing comparing and contrasting iraq/afghanistan with French Indochina re: governmental conduct of the war from Paris and D.C.

    Thanks for giving me the permission.

    Parent

    Thank you, too (5.00 / 1) (#186)
    by Towanda on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 08:00:33 PM EST
    as posting it as a diary may mean more will see Jeff's stories of others and of himself, on other blogs, too.  There is so little understanding of these realities that face too many people today.

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    where can we read up (none / 0) (#184)
    by NYShooter on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 07:56:42 PM EST
    on the protocols of a "diarist?"

    Thanks.

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    There's a human face to all of this (5.00 / 2) (#189)
    by MO Blue on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 08:10:36 PM EST
    ...I think you've forgotten about outcomes.

    Well said Jeff. Some people don't care about the outcomes and others will benefit mightily from shifting funds from the poor and the middle class into their own pockets.  

    Parent
    Outcomes (none / 0) (#167)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 06:06:51 PM EST
    are what people vote on not process.

    Great post Jeff. I would give you a 100 if I could!

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    I've had to smell the coffee all my life, Jeff (none / 0) (#195)
    by christinep on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 08:50:15 PM EST
    First: Your statement is excellent, pulsing blood & reality. Second: It is the very situation you describe that cries for resolution--not standing pat on theoretical principle, not hortatory language about what would be the optimum situation...no, it is about delivering government in its most compassionate form to as many as possible as quickly as possible.  Here's the rub/the reality: It takes votes. Read Greg Sargent in the WashPo today for a quick summary of numbers (which, by now, are likely outdated.)  

    It is human. But, we can say that over & over to Repubs & we get nothing, nothing. Stalling bs, to put it nicely. The votes aren't there. Damn it...it takes the discipline to slowly, slowly tie the noose around their g--d necks to get any movement. And, whether that movement doesn't reach what we would like, well....the President cannot dictate, because it still takes votes.  When I smell the coffee, I know where the coffee is from & how it is made.

    Last winter, these same smug Repubs--fresh off their win--had to be finagled with what some here deride as The Deal to get Unemployment Insurance extensions and to get a small measure of relief via payroll tax holiday---because when you don't have the votes you figure out how to get relief for the least of our brethren. And, Obama did that.

    We are all on edge. And, rightly so.  The human face is haunting. But, the Congree is made of up numbers...there is no magic.  We know that many hurt. That is what increases the anguish: There can be no orders, directives, finger-snapping...it takes votes.

    Parent

    i think (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by The Addams Family on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 05:13:31 PM EST
    we should just trust our president in every decision that he makes and we should just support that.


    Parent
    HAH! (5.00 / 1) (#147)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 05:25:52 PM EST
    my loudest Tweety impersonation;-)

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    Obama is going to compromise (none / 0) (#169)
    by MO Blue on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 06:15:21 PM EST
    He is going to cut all domestic and safety net programs and keep the Bush/Obama tax cuts in place. The $4 T in spending cuts will offset the $4 T in tax cuts so there will be no effect to the deficit. Great compromise though since Obama will get the cuts to the safety net programs that he wants and the Republicans will get to not only keep the Bush/Obama tax cuts but an additional guarantee from Obama that he will cut taxes for corporations and the wealthy even further. A win win for the guys on Wall St. That is why it is called a "Grand Bargain."

    The pols and their savvy friends who are too rich to need the safety net programs can transfer these funds to their own bank accounts. Boy what a great deal. No wonder you are so supportive.  

     

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    No surprise at all. (none / 0) (#97)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 03:22:12 PM EST
    .
    Phone hacking by other Brit tabloids

    .

    So you see.. (none / 0) (#110)
    by jondee on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 03:33:12 PM EST
    Rupert's people were forced to do it -- by that competitive environment..

    What's a sleazy, cutthroat, media mogul and his minions to do in times like these?

    Parent

    Never good when the IRS is involved (none / 0) (#145)
    by CoralGables on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 05:24:15 PM EST

    Federal investigators have opened a second criminal probe of U.S. Rep. David Rivera (R), examining undisclosed payments from a Miami gambling enterprise to a company tied to the Republican congressman, The Miami Herald has learned.

    Agents with the FBI and the Internal Revenue Service have begun interviewing witnesses knowledgeable about a $1 million consulting contract...




    Reminder (none / 0) (#155)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 05:34:46 PM EST
    Sometimes patience is helpful:

    "Pentagon to announce Friday that defense secretary, joint chiefs have certified that military is ready to repeal Don't Ask Don't Tell - NBC"

    Obama signs off, 60 days and done.

    Glad to hear it. (5.00 / 4) (#163)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 05:52:10 PM EST
    Now, about those Billion-a-week wars...the orders come down from outside the pentagon as to fighting them or not...

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    Does that translate to (none / 0) (#197)
    by christinep on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 08:54:47 PM EST
    Quick okay...now waah waah waah? Cmon.

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    Repeal of DADT is progress for human rights: with (5.00 / 1) (#199)
    by BBQinDenver on Thu Jul 21, 2011 at 09:39:40 PM EST
    the added benefit of increasing the pool for meeting military recruitment demands. Just in time for boots on the ground in Libya (and other places of your choice). and just in time for more joystick jockeys for the automated airwars...

    Parent
    Thursday Open Thread | 200 comments (200 topical)