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Tuesday Open Thread

It's another busy work day for me. For those of you online, here's an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    Heading to the oncologist in a few (5.00 / 5) (#19)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 12:11:30 PM EST
    moments... life gets funner and funner!

    MilitaryTracy and Dadler, the amount of info on French indochina compared to
    Afghanistan, military and political... wow.

    Know of any linkies to quotes about "it's a volunteer army or it's a bunch of mercenaries," made by significant figures between 2003 and now? I've heard and read them, but need somebody or somebodies big... wasn't there a meet the press where some pol said that these folks in the military "were not the best and the brightest," somewhere along 2007?

    One valley name for those with long memories-- Dien Bien Phu...

    This baby is almost writing itself, I'm suprised nobody at the War College has written a thesis on it. Or maybe they have, and it's not available to the public for some reason... Hah!

    Was that a good Tweety impersonation?

    May or may not be back on later today... it's the first visit, so

    I'm expecting to get home and enter the realm of beer following this. 2 hr drive both ways.

    Later on, TL folks, Pirate Crew, and Fellow Betting Degenerates!

    Hoping for the best for you. (5.00 / 3) (#20)
    by oculus on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 12:13:23 PM EST
    good luck Jeff....hoping for the best (5.00 / 2) (#21)
    by ruffian on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 12:20:31 PM EST
    Best of luck, jeff (5.00 / 2) (#23)
    by Zorba on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 12:30:30 PM EST
    Good thoughts and positive energy (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by Anne on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 12:58:51 PM EST
    are being sent through the universe to you; will hope to hear the best news possible, and be able to lift a glass in celebration and offer a prayer in thanks.

    Keep us posted, no matter what.

    Parent

    I'll be thinking about you, Jeff, (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by caseyOR on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 12:59:50 PM EST
    and hoping for a good outcome today.

    My knowledge of military history is thin, but Dien Bien Phu lights up a big part of my brain. The utter devastation of the French should have tipped the U.S.A. to the fact that the Viet Cong and the N. Vietnamese meant business and would not be deterred.

    The Viet Nam War had a huge impact on the way I view our nation's actions in the world, and went a long way to making me skeptical of anything our "leaders" tell us about pretty much everything. One could say "the scales fell from my eyes," during that time.

    So, I eagerly await the opportunity to read your paper.

    Parent

    We need Jeff to tweet--just for today. (5.00 / 2) (#36)
    by oculus on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 01:04:19 PM EST
    Hehehe... (5.00 / 3) (#90)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 04:01:21 PM EST
    brought my computer to take notes, and my 4g is not proscribed.

    Tweet 1: Peed in a cup.
    Tweet 2: waiting...
    Tweet 3: isn't the difference between zero and nothing fascinating?

    Parent

    Oh (5.00 / 4) (#94)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 04:03:18 PM EST
    tweet 4 cell phone use is proscribed, but not computer. I told them I was going to take notes.

    Tweet 5: @ Oculus. Glad I am not streaming the video. Room is a hideous beige-ey/taupe-ey color, kind of like baby poop but not as appealing.

    Parent

    You are so funny (5.00 / 2) (#99)
    by MO Blue on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 04:16:46 PM EST
    Can't wait for further {tweets?} that have good news.

    Parent
    Hoping for good news here too! (5.00 / 2) (#100)
    by lilburro on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 04:17:41 PM EST
    Jeff: When I read your pithy comment (5.00 / 3) (#102)
    by christinep on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 04:18:42 PM EST
    mentioning Dien Bien Phu, I coulda peed in a cup. That droll sense & perspective...as good as medicine. 'Hope there will be no need for that medicine, and the news will be good & heartening. (Then, you can write about this short, intense episode in the midst of the ocean of our lives.)

    Parent
    Good luck Jeff. (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by tigercourse on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 01:06:39 PM EST
    good luck Jeff (5.00 / 2) (#38)
    by MO Blue on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 01:08:43 PM EST
    All positive thoughts coming your way.

    Parent
    Thoughts and prayers Jeff. (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 01:14:23 PM EST
    best of luck! (5.00 / 2) (#43)
    by CST on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 01:34:15 PM EST
    May the force be with you... (5.00 / 3) (#45)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 01:52:25 PM EST
    Positive Vibration comin' your way matey.

    Parent
    Best of luck to you. (5.00 / 3) (#50)
    by Dr Molly on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 02:18:36 PM EST
    I sure hope it's good news.

    Parent
    GL Jeff! (5.00 / 3) (#52)
    by republicratitarian on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 02:21:12 PM EST
    oncologist? (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by cpinva on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 02:21:44 PM EST
    ok, that can't be a good thing. good luck with that.

    as to your question:

    if you were the army, would you want an analysis, comparing us in iraq/afghanistan to the french in vietnam released to the general public? i think not.

    for that matter, us in indochina v us in afghanistan/iraq would be a pretty grisly read as well. not for the faint of heart, or the general public, who's footing the bill in blood and coin.

    Parent

    Jeff - hang tough! (5.00 / 3) (#73)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 03:14:38 PM EST
    And good luck.

    Parent
    I'll do research for you (5.00 / 3) (#88)
    by Dadler on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 03:54:36 PM EST
    I just need some clarifying on this one.  

    But that's beside the point.  Sending good vibes for your good health.  Next year, we figure out how to play the WSOPME together, maybe get K-Dog and PPJ and a friggin' rainbow team from TL.  Be like those Mizrachi brothers last year.

    Peace, my man.

    Parent

    Oncologists can be life saving! (5.00 / 4) (#96)
    by hairspray on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 04:11:46 PM EST
    My thoughts (5.00 / 3) (#128)
    by BackFromOhio on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 06:46:00 PM EST
    are with you....

    Parent
    My prayers are with you (5.00 / 3) (#135)
    by loveed on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 07:20:40 PM EST
    Eleanor Clift on McLaughlin Group? (none / 0) (#22)
    by oculus on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 12:29:10 PM EST
    link

    2005

    Parent

    ZOMG! I will have a phone interview (5.00 / 2) (#24)
    by observed on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 12:32:53 PM EST
    with a representative for the university in Kazakhstan in a few days.
    I DEFINITELY need to do some serious research, so I know what to ask.

    In which language? First question: (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by oculus on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 12:41:44 PM EST
    will I be able to get TalkLeft?

    Parent
    I'll give reviews of Kazakh opera. (5.00 / 3) (#31)
    by observed on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 12:49:19 PM EST
    I hope I don't have to report on yak butter tea.

    Parent
    Classes will be in Russian, maybe (none / 0) (#29)
    by observed on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 12:47:03 PM EST
    Kazakh---they offer training. I know some Russian and could get fluent within a year, I think.
    You can get CkazatbBlebo there.

    Parent
    Good luck. Twould be an adventure. (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by oculus on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 12:49:00 PM EST
    Fantastic experience. (5.00 / 0) (#178)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 06:24:26 PM EST
    Try to find out about a reverse-osmosis water filter to take or buy in Europe for your cooking and drinking needs! The fruits are supposed to be wonderful there.

    Parent
    The conservative, David Brooks, in (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by KeysDan on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 12:36:51 PM EST
    his column (NYT, July 19) takes an assortment of his fellow Republicans (Grover Norquist, Big Government Blowhards--talk radio jocks,  Show Horses, such as Sarah Palin and Michele Bachman, Permanent Campaigners) to task heaping scorn upon them for not seeing politics as the art of the possible.

    Brooks seems livid and chastises his wingers-in-arms for not having seized the  opportunity in the debt ceiling negotiations to make steady, messy progress toward  conservative goals.  "There was a Democratic president eager to move to the center (sic).  He floated ideas that would normally be unheard from a Democrat.  ...WH officials talked about raising Medicare eligibility age, cutting Social Security by changing the inflation index, freezing discretionary spending and offering to pre-empt the end of the Bush tax cuts in exchange for a broad tax reform process."  

    Brooks claims that Boehner took the offer seriously, and, from his own reporting, he attests that WH officials took the offer seriously.  This opportunity tragically missed by conservatives would have reduced the size of government by $3 trillion over a decade---amazingly big money since he notes, apparently for tea party consumption, three times larger than the cost of the Obama health care law.

    And, the crowning glory, he continues, would have been to "brutally fracture the Democratic Party."    Come on Republicans, never look a gift horse in the mouth--and it not too late, Obama is, no doubt, still willing and able.

    "Surprise, surprise, surprise! (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by MO Blue on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 02:15:15 PM EST
    Obama spoke briefly in the White House press room just hours after a bipartisan group of six senators resumed negotiating the plan. The senators said they were close to agreement on an immediate $500 billion "down payment" on cutting the deficit as the starting point toward cuts of more than $4 trillion over the coming decade that would be finalized in a second piece of legislation.

    The plan also would raise revenues by about $1 trillion over 10 years through a major overhaul of the tax code and cuts to popular benefit programs like Medicare and Medicaid, the federal programs that subsidize health care for the elderly and poor. There was no assurance such a plan would win support in the Republican-controlled House where most members have vowed not to increase taxes.

    The plan largely mirrors one put forward months ago by Obama's debt commission and he said on Tuesday that it "is broadly consistent with what I've proposed." link



    Parent
    Ugh. Here's more, if you can stand it. (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by Anne on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 02:26:17 PM EST
    From David Dayen:

    The best summary of the Gang of Six proposal can be found in this two-page document that's been floating around. And from what I see, it closely mirrors the Bowles-Simpson report while being sufficiently vague so as not to raise anyone's ire.

    Kent Conrad said this was a 3:1 ratio of spending to tax solutions. But, he was quick to point out, CBO would score this proposal as a tax cut of $1.5 trillion, and actually, I think that number would be bigger. The reason is the Bush tax cuts, which are set to expire at the end of 2012. Under current law, doing nothing would raise $4 trillion by returning tax rates to the Clinton level. But this deal would reduce marginal income tax rates and eliminate the alternative minimum tax. Then there's a lot of happy talk about "encouraging economic growth" and "enhancing the competitiveness of American businesses and workers against global competition." What they're talking about is the same stew of lowering the rates and broadening the base that we've seen countless times. So loopholes and tax expenditures would be thrown out, and rates would go down. It's not specified how this would be done.

    Actually, very little is specific in this framework. Of the $3.7 trillion in deficit reduction planned, only $500 billion would be immediate (and all on the spending cut side). The rest would come by directing Congressional committees to find savings in key programs, enforcing that through spending caps. The tax reform would happen on a separate track. Congress would need a 2/3 vote to exceed the spending caps installed in this package, and "emergency" spending would be restricted.

    Simply put, this is a recipe for depression. When the economy suffered and stimulus would be required to increase aggregate demand, the 2/3 vote needed would simply put a stop to it. The New Deal would have been out of order under this regime. Same with the Recovery Act. Any spending from the federal government would be restricted as much as it is in the states. So there could only be the status quo or contraction in fiscal policy in the event of a recession, which is a perfect way to create a depression.

    Here's a link to the summary David references (note - it's a pdf):

    A can of catfood for all!

    Just...ugh.

    Parent

    Horrible for the economy, horrible Dem politics (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by ruffian on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 03:06:55 PM EST
    Horrible legislative game playing, exactly what people mean when they say 'Washington does not work'.  

    Have I left anything out?

    Parent

    Sit back and enjoy (5.00 / 3) (#71)
    by KeysDan on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 03:08:25 PM EST
    the spin.   A smashing success, President Obama did it!  It was tough, but he persisted, showing real leadership.  And, the Republicans overreached and caved to  Obama's demands for  cuts to Medicare and Social Security, and tax loop holes were closed (but look at the shiny object, while we tell you about the corporate tax cuts or the new job incentives).   They wore the people down and everyone will be relieved to end it all, and see the debt ceiling rise. The Murdoch story is more interesting to watch, anyhow.

    Parent
    Change you can believe in (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by MO Blue on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 06:34:32 PM EST
    Obama cuts safety net programs so that he can  lower taxes for corporations and the rich even further.

    Finance would be required to reduce tax rates to three tax brackets of rates: of 8-12 percent, 14-22 percent and 23-29 percent. The current top marginal rate is 35 percent.

    The corporate tax rate would be between 23 percent and 29 percent, and tax reform would cease taxation of oversees profits. link



    Parent
    To quote Anne (none / 0) (#172)
    by sj on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 02:57:40 AM EST
    Just...ugh.

    Parent
    Is this one of those bills (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by ruffian on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 03:01:24 PM EST
    they know will fail, put forth only to make a point? A stupid point, I'll grant.

    Parent
    Bravo, Brooks. (none / 0) (#54)
    by KeysDan on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 02:24:25 PM EST
    He was apparently paving the way.

    Parent
    Did you forget something (none / 0) (#108)
    by christinep on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 04:34:07 PM EST
    KeysDan: Brooks suggests in that column that--of course--Obama's "offers" were not in writing, openly implying that they might be bait. So, the construct, while useful & needed in his present theme of chastising Repubs may be in need of the full quote.

    IMO, this part of the play is to counter the siren-song of the week's Repub performance of "balanced budget." (It has an allure...as we saw, to our misfortune, in CO several years back with the budget squeezing Tabor Amendment.) So, the Repubs try to gain media voice via the "we want a balanced budget" and Obama says " Hey, y'all, no need to go that far...we have real bipartisanship with the Senatorial "Gang of Six," etc. etc.  And, the President laments how we should all work together; but, says--in any event--the debt ceiling must be raised, and the fallback plan being worked on by McConnell & Reid may be the way if we can't get it together in short order (which, of course they can't, because of Grover & his dictates that would scuttle the Big Plans because they effect taxes for the wealthy...as the WH knows.)

    So, the "balanced budget" theatrics are countered a bit for weekly theme by Obama's "embrace" of the Gang of Six. And, we move ever so methodically to the fallback plan that everyone said was their third choice. Well-planned.
    And, the British  Murdoch Inquiry may trump it all in terms of Repub attempt to regain any ears.

    Parent

    Funny, but I see the circling back, always, (5.00 / 2) (#125)
    by Anne on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 06:10:42 PM EST
    to the kinds of ideas that were part and parcel of Simpson-Bowles - you remember that, right?  Obama's pet project?  Wait, don't tell me - that was all part of the plan!  Obama would create this commission, and when it couldn't vote out recommendations, would get the Gang of Six together to make some noise - even get Tom Coburn to walk out, so when he needed them, he could drag them and their new plan  - with Coburn returned to the fold - out in order to actually get votes for the McConnell plan, which Reid got involved in - for the bipartisan thing, you know - which is the plan Obama's wanted all along.  That $4 trillion Grand Bargain had to have been a head-fake, because - look! - the Gang of Six plan uses that exact same number!

    If you can make your way through that maze, take a gander at this:

    Here's a fuller documentation of the Gang of Six plan, with the $500 billion in up-front cuts. Most of it kicks the can down the road by simply putting in place "statutory discretionary spending caps" (without saying where the cuts will come from) and "numerous budget process reforms" (without saying what they are). But they do get concrete on a couple points:

    • The plan would shift to chained CPI, which the document calls "a more accurate measure of inflation." If by "more accurate" you mean "a way to keep money away from Social Security recipients," then yes, it's more accurate. Because chained CPI is nothing more than a benefit cut for seniors, veterans and the disabled. Oh, that, and a regressive tax increase that falls most on the working poor. The plan says that SSI would be exempt for five years and then phase in over the next five, but the end result is a benefit cut that will accumulate as time goes on. And there's no increase of the payroll tax cap to compensate on the other side. There's also talk of a "minimum benefit" for Social Security, but this is a typical throw-in to try and distort the issue of a benefit cut.

    • It would also repeal the CLASS Act, a Ted Kennedy-authored plan included in health care reform that would provide federal voluntary long-term care insurance. The powers that be have decided that it's too expensive, even though in the 10-year budget window it doesn't cost any money.

    So there's your up-front "shared sacrifice": cuts to Social Security, a regressive tax hike, repealing a benefit for older Americans on long-term care insurance.

    The rest of the package is basically worse. The Senate Finance Committee would instruct the committees of jurisdiction to find $400-$500 billion in health savings, mostly from payments to doctors but also possibly through elements like raising the Medicare eligibility age or increasing cost-sharing (i.e. raising co-pays and deductibles). Armed Services would "find" $80 billion. HELP would "find" $75 billion. Homeland Security would "find" $65 billion. The word "find" makes it sound so simple.

    Then you have a framework for tax reform with only three brackets, at 8-12%, 14-22% and 23-29% (the ranges depend on how many loopholes would get eliminated). The Earned Income Tax Credit and the Child Tax Credit would stay the same. The claim is that the whole reform would bring in an additional $1 trillion, but I think we saw with the last major tax reform that that's a temporary condition. We have a President who has touted 16 small business tax breaks since he came into office. Those are the same kinds of evil "tax expenditures" this plan talks about removing. They'll find their way back in over time.

    This amounts to a $1.5 trillion tax cut from current law, with the Bush tax cuts set to expire in 2012. In other words, this effort raises $1.5 trillion less than what would happen if the Bush tax cuts simply went away. And it would enshrine those higher rates into law, which are more formidable than keeping the inevitable loopholes out.

    By 2020, health spending has a "global budget," just like Bowles-Simpson, which means growth cannot exceed GDP +1%. That's just a magic asterisk, which says "keep costs down" without a plan about how to do it.

    You're basically looking at Bowles-Simpson all over again, with some minor tweaks here and there. It closes the deficit by no more than if you simply let the Bush tax cuts expire and we returned to the Clinton tax rates, which may not be a perfect solution, but which requires zero effort, protects Social Security and Medicare and Medicaid and food stamps and every discretionary policy there is. And that can be built upon in the areas of defense, among other places. I can't see how this jumble, which makes the poor and the elderly pay for the mistakes of the rich and the connected, improves upon it.

    Come on, christine, there's really only so much of this magical thinking one can engage in before the word "delusional" comes to mind.

    Parent

    Think what you will (none / 0) (#137)
    by christinep on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 07:29:19 PM EST
    but, the odds are strong that nothing of what you fear will happen. That is not magical thinking; it is deductive based upon what is a pretzel process. E.g.: When you are quite outnumbered, there are several options...to outlast, to survive, to prevail. You can thrash...and, believe me, there is a time & place for that, Anne. (I think that is the right & obligation of the base of both parties in a two-party system. So, I'm agreeing with your determined statements as part of the process.) You can threaten, yell, scream...and, if moving further is dependent upon an outside force (such as voters)...well...that might not get you the reward. Etc. Or, you can outmaneuver, using what you can (see, e.g., Clinton "triangulation" and now, I think, Obama's use of same) with the recognition that as a representative of one of two parties that one needs to win the confidence of the voters to do anything at all. Thats political life beond c'est la vie.

    During this process, Obama started with the wind to the face...considering the revolt of voters in 2010 and their subsequent (as measured by surveys, interviews, etc.) interest in all things debt-reduction. While we may have not liked where the polity was...well, it is a democracy. By now, via positioning in the middle, Obama is increasingly earning (or re-earning) the trust of Americans in the area of a balanced approach. The Republicans, obviously, made it easer for Obama to speak to the center. Again, whether we like it or not, that is where the polity is now headed (per any known measure of public attitudes.) We are not talking here about what is purely, morally right...we are talking about where the majority of people may be in a democratic nation.

    There are certainly reasons that one opts to ignore the will of the majority. (For one, the majority periodically is wrong.) Yet, it is difficult to claim where something is wrong/evil/dumb/irresponsible/against the people/what-have-you when the majority expresses its will to support Compromise.

    It is a classic, Anne. Compromise vs. No Compromise. (IMO, neither is inherently morally right or wrong in the context of governance. I just happen to gravitate toward some form of compromise as a way forward; others do not.)

    Parent

    Yes, in the polls the public supports (5.00 / 3) (#144)
    by caseyOR on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 08:17:48 PM EST
    compromise. Additionally, the public, and this crosses party lines, does not support cuts to Medicare, Social Security and Medicaid. And yet everyone, Republicans, Obama, the Gang of Six, seems bound and determined to cut these programs.

    If Obama's plan reflected what the people want, he would be calling for raising taxes on the wealthy and making bigger cuts to the military, all the while keeping his hands off the safety net program.

    This is the same thing we saw during the debate over his health insurance reform bill. The American public, by overwhelming numbers, wanted a government run Medicare-type program that would be available to anyone who wanted it. Wow, Obama really listened to the people on that one.

    Parent

    Again...lets see the writing (none / 0) (#148)
    by christinep on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 08:28:05 PM EST
    Talk is positioning...esp meant for negotiations (strong-arming, manipulating, all the tricks of the negotiation trade.) Wait for the writing; not the vague (fill-in-the-blank) exhortations. If I'm wrong, my mea culpa will be most sincere.

    Parent
    Waiting is a dangerous game. (5.00 / 4) (#151)
    by caseyOR on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 08:40:20 PM EST
    Once a final bill is hammered out, it will be too late. Nobody will fight to change an agreement once it is reached. At least, nobody in power will pay the least bit of attention to those who object. It will be a done deal.

    Bad policy ideas must be attacked and shot down the minute they are floated. If they are not, they all too often become part of the final product.

    I don't understand this wait and see position of yours. And, frankly, if you are wrong, your mea culpa, no matter how sincere, won't do anybody a d@mn bit of good.

    This is life and death for many people. We don't have the luxury of wait and see. And we certainly have no reason to trust that this president, anymore than the Republicans, has our best interests at heart.

    Parent

    I take your point, casey (none / 0) (#155)
    by christinep on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 08:56:57 PM EST
    Tho, the downside to what you lay out is that the "particulars" leaked/mentioned/referenced/heard as the negotiations have picked up steam leave a lot for interpretation or misinterpretation, as the case may be.

    IMO, high-level negotiations have limited opportunity for intercession by non-participants. And, that makes sense, because negotiations are not meant to be--in & of themselves--a series of elections & second-guessing or nothing much can be expected to happen. That is a separate area of discussion: In this fast tech communication age, what is the role of non-participants in national political negotiations? How much has that role changed from times not so long ago when talks were held (& we heard a bit maybe) & the next thing we knew, we had a decision or compromise.

    My question to you: Since you define this negotiation as "life and death for many," how would you propose that various interest groups can best make their voice heard during on-going, relatively fast-paced negotiations? What steps do you think could have an effect? And why?

    Parent

    Well, I'm not CaceyOR (5.00 / 2) (#170)
    by sj on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 02:56:45 AM EST
    But in my view the wrong steps would be sit back quietly and wait and see what happens.  

    Responding to the news of the day on a life and death matter is futile.  Instead take a stand and hold it, and advocate for it regardless of ditherings coming out of the WH and Congress.

    Parent

    I tend to agree we are witnessing (none / 0) (#109)
    by ruffian on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 04:39:00 PM EST
    battling theatrics.

    Is the fallback plan the McConnell feat of legislative kabuki, or the 1.5 trillion deal they talked about over the weekend?

    Parent

    Both, ruffian (none / 0) (#112)
    by christinep on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 04:54:18 PM EST
    The $1.5Trillion appears to be a combo of cuts long ago agreed to and planned for that would not effect Safety Net programs. As I understand it, the amount over a decade would be the equivalent of a nickel or so to the dollar. While not minimizing cuts, this is certainly part of the theatrics as well. Real, planned for...& not harmful. And, from the public's perspective: Good Compromise. Read: The classic type of compromise that we all knew growing up and that gets everyone out of a tight corner.

    Bottom line: The McConnell-Reid negotiations (at least, so far) do not seem to undercut traditional Democratic positions nor prevent competent governance. (What would be nice: Obtaining a one-time rather than a three-time revisit as a trade-off for the $$ "reductions.")

    Parent

    Yep, as compromises go, that is a (none / 0) (#117)
    by ruffian on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 05:22:35 PM EST
    better one by far.  I don't like all the game playing with the multiple votes, some planned to be vetoed, but at the same time I hear GWBs petulant voice in my head saying 'Congress hez just got to get me a bill I can sign'  and I feel better about it.

    Parent
    Do not believe (none / 0) (#122)
    by KeysDan on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 05:54:38 PM EST
    I was "forgetting" anything in Brooks piece, nor did I put anything in Brooks piece that was not there. I did not see any "open implications of bait",  but  I did see  Brooks claim of slipperiness on the part of Democrats and that President Obama didn't put his offers in writing.  If any open implication exists, it seems, to me, it is  a flank against his conservative's accusations of naivete. Nor does Brooks say as you do, 'of course'-Obama's offers were in writing--an addition that might support untrustworthiness that Brooks does not see.

    But, the crux of Brooks admonition to conservatives was...but " John Boehner, the House speaker, thought they were serious. The liberal activists thought they were alarmingly serious. (note: I did deliberately leave this part out).  I can tell you from my reporting that White House officials took them (the offers) seriously."   I just have more respect for President Obama that to believe he would be lying to Boehner or be so  disingenuous in his personal negotiations  on matter  with such serious consequences.

    Parent

    Note: not in writing. (none / 0) (#123)
    by KeysDan on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 05:56:36 PM EST
    IMO, people see what they want to see (none / 0) (#127)
    by christinep on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 06:38:52 PM EST
    I've demonstrated that...and, in this case, so have you. For one thing, I do not quote Brooks--who, even here, hedged his bets about "slipperiness (how cute!) to make his arguments to his erstwhile colleagues, the Repubs. My perception: This is all the orchestration of resolution...and, Brooks is intelligent enough to know that the Repubs have been had (after their several months of pronouncint how they were going to get kazillions in real cuts, etc. & strutting about it)...Brooks is trying to goad the Repubs into a more pragmatic world. Insofar as Obama is concerned: Look to the results...not to the posturing of negotiations, nor the "here is what my crystal ball tells me he is really thinking", nor the conspiracy theories of the Repubs. When it is all over, I predict: We will avoid the default; and, we will avoid it on the best terms to the WH in view of the number of votes in the House and in view of the elections/ demonstrated attitude in November and in view of the American public's clear penchant (see ABC/WP and NBC/WSJ polls today and how Obama has outdistanced the Repub maneuvers) for compromise.

    As I say until I bore your all: We all view things thru our own perceptual screen. Most Americans want compromise...every survey, every study shows that. While I support the importance of the further left to push for everything and to be skeptical about everything (that is the dynamic of the dialectic), I think you know that the President appears to be on the threshold of extricating himself from the losing hand dealt the Dems in November 2010. And--not only that--he has solidified his position as reasonable, caring, trusting, and caring about middle-class values of the American public...per all the latest surveys.

    The numbers are often the reality...in that, Obama looks to best the numbers.

    Parent

    Compromise is not a word that I (5.00 / 3) (#131)
    by MO Blue on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 07:07:48 PM EST
    would use to describe taking money from people they need to survive to give it to people that have more than they could use in 10 life times.

    Most Americans are strongly against cuts to SS, Medicare and Medicaid.

    You, of course, do not rely on these programs to live on so when they are cut it will cost you nothing. In fact, you will probably have more money in your pocket.

     

    Parent

    Tsk. tsk. You're making personal attacks. (2.00 / 1) (#139)
    by christinep on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 07:43:59 PM EST
    Have I attacked your personal choices, lifestyle, etc? :)  Enuf said.

    Parent
    I agree with MO Blue (5.00 / 2) (#171)
    by sj on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 02:57:24 AM EST
    Compromise is not a word that I would use to describe taking money from people they need to survive to give it to people that have more than they could use in 10 life times.


    Parent
    July approval of Obama's handling of economy (5.00 / 3) (#134)
    by MO Blue on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 07:16:09 PM EST
    Obama's Approval Rating on Economy Drops

    Economists have declared the economic recession over largely over, but most Americans don't share their optimism, and they are increasingly blaming President Obama for their money woes.

    Mr. Obama's approval rating on the economy has tumbled five percentage points from last month, according to a new CBS News poll, with just 40 percent of those polled expressing full confidence in his actions.

    More than half of those questioned (54 percent) said they disapproved of Mr. Obama's handling of the economy. Last month, 45 percent approved. The drop in approval has been seen mostly among independents, just 35 percent of whom now say they approve. link

    Boy, oh, boy look how he is impressing independents. You know those people who he says he is impressing with his willingness to cut the safety net programs.

    Parent

    The public is angry with everyone's (none / 0) (#138)
    by christinep on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 07:41:21 PM EST
    handling of the economy. As you know, MO Blue, the comparatives count. It is sad, I agree, that noone would appear to have much support in the matter of the economy. But, as the ABC & NBC polls today show, the public is markedly more angy with Repubs? Should people be happy with that? No.  But, it is where we are; and, given where we started, it is not unexpected. What amazes me--really--is how Obama has fared so well in the area of trust/sharing values during these tough economic times.

    The Republican crazies have contributed to Obama's ability to weather this long economic storm. IMO, people do respond to emotional stimulus of fear/hate (witness all manner of things), but--and, I'm an optimist--they discern the differences too. Looking into the body of the polls, it is very clear that people are justifiably unhappy with the economic state, but that they are circumspect about casting their anger on Obama. They see the difference between the President and the Republican measures (and, they have expressed total distrust of the Republican Congress, a mere 6 mos. after being sworn in.)

    Parent

    It was a Democratic president that put (5.00 / 2) (#157)
    by MO Blue on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 09:45:01 PM EST
    SS, Medicare and Medicaid on the table, not the Republicans. The Republicans got burned badly when Bush tried to dismantle SS and they would not have touched this with a ten foot pole if Obama had not put these programs up for grabs.

    When the average person realizes that they will be forced to live on much, much less when they retire so that corporations and Obama and his rich friends get a tax cut, 35% - 40 approval may well become the high.

    BTW, there was no personal attack. Just a statement of fact that it is easy for you to discount benefit cuts as not too draconian when they won't hit your bottom line at all.
     

    Parent

    My view is that Americans (none / 0) (#132)
    by KeysDan on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 07:11:30 PM EST
    want a decent compromise, not a compromise of any sort.  The back and forth has surely worn Americans down, for it is hard to keep, literally, up to the minute.  If Americans who depend on Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security wake up to find that they are on the short-end of the stick, and, once again, the corporations and the upper one percent on the long end, they may have different feelings about the wisdom of the compromise.  Right now, the Americans seem to be trusting the president to do right by them--time will tell if that trust has been misplaced.  From Brooks perspective he seems to be telling his conservatives that they missed an opportunity to further their agenda, maybe openly imply that this president will give them gifts beyond their wildest hopes.  But, I will stop at this point so as to avoid being accused of "forgetting something" that was important to Brooks position.

    Parent
    Wanting compromise is like being (5.00 / 1) (#136)
    by masslib on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 07:28:06 PM EST
    for clean air.  

    Parent
    I like the Clean Air Act (none / 0) (#141)
    by christinep on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 07:47:22 PM EST
    Now, now...don't take it personally (none / 0) (#140)
    by christinep on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 07:46:27 PM EST
    A suggestion? Look at the full internals of the NBC/WSJ and ABC/WashPo polls today. Compromise, once again (as so many times historically) is the option that Americans tend toward.

    Parent
    But, what if the people haven't been told (5.00 / 2) (#149)
    by Anne on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 08:28:30 PM EST
    the truth about what's going on, christine?  

    When the spectre of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse is foisted upon the public, day after day after day, it shouldn't surprise anyone that people would be willing to "compromise."

    When neither the president, most members of Congress, nor - the ones with the largest audience - the media, have been at all honest with the public about the entire situation, have created a crisis, engineered the only choices available to solve it - what else would you expect a poll to show?  

    For someone as smart as you are, who has been in government as long as you have, I'm surprised how unfamiliar you seem to be with the concept of "garbage in - garbage out."  If you want a refresher, go back and look at the discourse and the polling in the run-up to the Iraq war.  The lies that were told to the public gave the warmongers exactly the poll results they wanted.

    This is following the same template, with the same results.

    Parent

    Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (none / 0) (#152)
    by christinep on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 08:41:28 PM EST
    An interesting characterization, Anne.

    The "American public" has a lot of experience with hearing all kinds of stuff...from pablum, to bs, to all manner of rhetoric, to good ideas, to horrid ideas, to outright lies. I don't know how we can effectively police what people hear; we can & must debate. And, we have been doing that. (When the debate has been shortened to a rush like Iraq, e.g., then I almost hyperventilate over how the heck we make decisions.) But, the facts and non-facts--and all types of in-between things--have had opportunity to bounce around and be out there in the national forum. I really do have to trust that the public gets it right for all of us in the long run.

    "The public gets it right" is not naivete. Rather, it seems that we have to subsume individual desires to how the public defines what the public wants...from time to time. (And, sometimes is is with teeth grinding & a grimace...which soon leads to a relook at my own thinking and/or how to persuade better next time.)

    Parent

    Would be willing to bet big money (5.00 / 1) (#173)
    by MO Blue on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 07:58:01 AM EST
    that the polls would go strongly against the compromises that are currently on the table. If the question was "Do you support or oppose President Obama's compromise of cutting SS, Medicare and Medicaid and lowering taxes for corporations and the rich to raise the debt limit ?"

    The polls would strongly oppose that so called compromise as they have consistently opposed cuts to the safety net programs.

    Parent

    Yes, and that is probably why (5.00 / 1) (#174)
    by KeysDan on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 11:17:28 AM EST
    Obama is keeping his offer to a "four page blueprint", or just an offer in the negotiating room.   Not just details, but the basics---keep the "compromise" the goal, not what is in it.  And, keep the apologists in line, and the liberals at bay.  

    Parent
    Take what personally? (none / 0) (#143)
    by KeysDan on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 08:03:53 PM EST
    George Packer writes a (5.00 / 2) (#46)
    by Anne on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 01:56:19 PM EST
    not-to-be-missed column in the New Yorker; for me, it falls into the "read-it-and-weep" category.

    Here's an excerpt:

    The sociologist Max Weber, in his 1919 essay "Politics as a Vocation," drew a distinction between "the ethic of responsibility" and "the ethic of ultimate ends"--between those who act from a sense of practical consequence and those who act from higher conviction, regardless of consequences. These ethics are tragically opposed, but the true calling of politics requires a union of the two. On its own, the ethic of responsibility can become a devotion to technically correct procedure, while the ethic of ultimate ends can become fanaticism. Weber's terms perfectly capture the toxic dynamic between the President, who takes responsibility as an end in itself, and the Republicans in Congress, who are destructively consumed with their own dogma. Neither side can be said to possess what Weber calls a "leader's personality." Responsibility without conviction is weak, but it is sane. Conviction without responsibility, in the current incarnation of the Republican Party, is raving mad.

    Representative Austin Scott, from the Hartzells' new state of Georgia, is the president of the House Republicans' freshman class. Last week, Scott, addressing the possibility that the United States might default on its debt, offered this blithe assessment: "I certainly think you will see some short-term volatility. In the end, the sun is going to come up tomorrow." It was Lenin who first said, "The worse, the better," a mantra adopted by elements of the New Left in the nineteen-sixties. This nihilistic idea animates a large number of Republican officeholders. The battle over the debt ceiling is a contest between grown-up sobriety and juvenile righteousness, which doesn't leave much choice.

    Nor does it leave much hope. President Obama, responsibly acceding to the reality of divided government, is now the leading champion of fiscal austerity, and his proposals contain very little in the way of job creation. More important, he no longer uses his office's most powerful tool, rhetorical suasion, to keep the country focussed on the continued need for government activism. His opponents' approach to job creation is that of a cargo cult--just keep repeating "tax cuts"--even though the economic evidence of the past three decades refutes such magical thinking. What does either side have to offer the tens of millions of Americans who have settled into a semi-permanent state of economic depression? Virtually nothing. But if responsibility were fused with conviction--if politics were a vocation in Washington today--the Hartzells would be represented at the negotiating table.

    Thinking about the Hartzell family Packer describes at the beginning of the column, thinking about what our TL friend Jeff has been through, along with others here - what so many millions of people have been dealing with - well, it is to weep.

    Professor Balkin reveals the super-secret plan (5.00 / 3) (#57)
    by Peter G on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 02:28:48 PM EST
    well, as a cpa, (none / 0) (#77)
    by cpinva on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 03:19:26 PM EST
    it has always been my cash-flow strategy (and that's basically what we're talking about here) to have the cash flow only one way, in. solves that problem rather neatly. sure, sure, it kind of violates every rule of GAAP, but sometimes one must be creative.

    Parent
    Looks like the Egyptian (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by brodie on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 03:42:30 PM EST
    authorities have finally fired one Zahi Hawass, Minister of Antiquities who ran his domain as if a pharaoh, who humbly referred to himself as "the real Indiana Jones" and who was featured prominently for many years in numerous, absurdly Hawass-centric shows on cable outlets like NatGeo, THC and Discovery.

    Be sure to check out the video of reaction to his ouster by a group described as "young Egyptian archeologists", who apparently wanted to give Hawass' a sendoff appropriate to his rather tough, Mubarakesque reign.

    The Audacity Gap (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by ruffian on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 04:02:41 PM EST
    Really good post by Paul Waldman, referring also to Jonathan Bernstein, describing the GOP tactics. Good description and framing.

    Democrats don't do the same thing not necessarily because they're better people, but because they have a different view of what the costs are. Democrats tend to get freaked out by a tongue-lashing from the Washington Post editorial page over some bit of procedural bad sportsmanship, while Republicans not only don't care, they realize that no one else in the country does, either.

    While I agree with the above, I'm not sure that explains it all. I think Dems really do have scruples against impeaching someone for less than the most serious crimes, and have a higher standard for recalls. Maybe the WI Dems are paving the way in that regard, showing all Dems how to be a little more ruthless.

    "My Wealthy Masters Hate Me (5.00 / 2) (#110)
    by Dadler on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 04:47:36 PM EST
    And I Welcome Their Hatred."

    "Got Jobs?"

    "Will Work for Policies That Do"

    "Bad Compromises are NOT a Virtue"

    "Where'd All The Democrats Go?"

    "¿Tienes trabajo?"

    "The Wages of Sin are All I Have Right Now"

    "Wall Street Ate My Country"

    "Underwater and Overqualified"

    "We Really Can't Do Better Than This???"

    T-shirt ideas anyone?

    ART Party 2012*

    *Always Relentlessly Thinking (none / 0) (#111)
    by Dadler on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 04:53:46 PM EST
    or whatever you want it to be.

    Parent
    Rather interesting revelation about (none / 0) (#1)
    by inclusiveheart on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 10:40:51 AM EST
    the Casey Anthony trial from the New York TImes.

    Apparently, the computer expert who found through his analysis and then testified in the trial that the computer had been used to go to a page about chloroform 84 times realized that there was an error in his analysis.  He found that the computer had only visited the page one time.  

    He then informed the police and the prosecutors of his error on June 25th according to the article.

    Guess what the prosecutors - still in trial at the time that they were notified of the error - did with his information?  Nothing.

    Apparently, they did not notify the court, the defense, or attempt to correct the record.

    I thought the defense brought that out (none / 0) (#2)
    by ruffian on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 11:11:13 AM EST
    at the trial - possibly with their own expert. Not sure of the details there. But then it got overshadowed when they brought in Cindy Anthony with her questionable testimony about herself being the one who did the search.

    I think the jury did get the point though - that the prosecution way exaggerated the chloroform theory - and it may have played a big part in them looking at the rest of the prosecution's case with more skepticism.

    Parent

    The media as usual got it wrong (none / 0) (#5)
    by loveed on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 11:33:53 AM EST
    Cindy testifying about the chloroform had noting to to do with saving Kasey.

     Kasey boyfriend at the time had placed on his facebook page "Seduce her with chloroform". One of Kasey girlfriends mention this to her. She read the page, then searched once for "what is chloroform".

    Parent

    To briefly defend the media (none / 0) (#18)
    by ruffian on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 12:09:09 PM EST
    their take on Cindy's testimony was that no one believed it. They do not credit that testimony with Casey's acquittal.

    The story about the FB page leading to Casey performing the one search (two months before the child disappeared) just makes a lot more sense than Casey searching for chloroform as a means of drugging the child.

    Parent

    Cindy had told the prosecution (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by loveed on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 12:57:24 PM EST
    in July of 2008 at her deposition that she had searched for chloroform. This was not new to the prosecution, maybe to the media.

     The revelation about the facebook page was revealed early in the trial. During the prosecution case. Why the prosecution spent their whole rebuttal impeaching Cindy Anthony on this issue was a mystery to me.

     The software the prosecution used was flaw from the beginning. The prosecution knew this. But they continue using this flawed program to reinforce there theory. By the time the prosecutor was screaming at Cindy "did you search 84 times for chloroform". The prosecution knew this was a lie. The judge also knew this was a lie. The last day of closing arguments by the prosecution,Biaz brought this up again. The judge refused to instruct the jury,on this false information.

     The media pays their employee to watch these trials. They pay lawyers to watch and comment on these high profile cases(made high profile by the media). But the media never watches the whole case, only the prosecution side.

     The prosecution knows no one will hold them accountable. So they continue trying to win by any means necessary. And the hell with the truth.

    Parent

    The judge and/or defense counsel, or, (none / 0) (#35)
    by oculus on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 01:01:10 PM EST
    for that matter you or a juror or a spectator could report the prosecutor to the FL. state bar and request and investigation.  

    Parent
    Trying to use Google searches as (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 04:25:06 PM EST
    evidence in something like this is idiotic on its face, IMO.  I frequently find myself Googling for this or that odd thing after reading an article or something in a book or chit-chatting with a friend and wanting to satisfy my curiosity about some peripheral thing that came up.  I shudder to think of what some prosecutor could make of the things I've searched over the years.

    Parent
    You should shutter to think. (none / 0) (#129)
    by inclusiveheart on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 06:51:11 PM EST
    That's one of the things that is disturbing about how people are being tracked by so many different entities both government and commercial.

    Parent
    Yes, they did (none / 0) (#104)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 04:21:29 PM EST
    bring it out in testimony.  The prosecution sure should have fessed up to the '84 times' goof, but both sides played a lot of stupid games with each other about discovery issues.

    Parent
    Here's the article (none / 0) (#3)
    by loveed on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 11:25:08 AM EST
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/19/us/19casey.html?_r=1&ref=todayspaper

     The prosecution wanted to win. The hell with the search for truth. The defense tried to inform them several times this was false information. The judge knew also.

     The prosecution vouched and supported George Anthony. Anyone who actually watched both sides knows George was a liar from the beginning of the trial.

     There Dr. Vas another liar vouched for by the prosecution.He smells decomposition in the air.
    He also invented a sniffer machine, to find dead bodies.

      I have a lot of respect for the scientific community. They testified against him, with a vengeance. And they never charge the defense.

      I want you to know, there was no surprises in this trial. The defense and prosecutor had to submit all reports,experts,review of what the witness will say. They also had the opportunity to depose all witnesses.

    When will the prosecution who represent the state,be held accountable?

       

    Parent

    Re "They charge the defense." (none / 0) (#13)
    by oculus on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 11:49:57 AM EST
    How so?  Paid by the court?

    Parent
    No charge to the defense for their time (none / 0) (#16)
    by loveed on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 12:00:48 PM EST
    Only travel arraignment and hotel cost.

    Parent
    So,,, does anyone else think that all hope of (none / 0) (#4)
    by tigercourse on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 11:28:02 AM EST
    ever returning to unemployment below 8 or so is more or less gone? Seeing Borders collape (Barnes and Noble will go someday) and more and more products get moved over the internet, as well as the ever increasing efficency of other businesses, it seems to me that we are quickly reaching a point where even a healthy economy can't sustain a decent work force.

    A healthy society could (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Dadler on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 11:38:27 AM EST
    An economy is just a board game with bloodshed.

    Jobs for the sake of jobs.

    When the body count gets high enough, maybe we'll be moved to act.  Until then, we get to watch Obama try to pretend he's Doug Henning: "Everything's possible in the world of magic!"  Just BELIEVE.

    Parent

    That should read, "Jobs for the sake... (none / 0) (#9)
    by Dadler on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 11:39:20 AM EST
    "...of jobs is what we need."

    Parent
    I spent time in Brazil during the 1970's (5.00 / 3) (#105)
    by hairspray on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 04:23:35 PM EST
    and saw what a two tiered society looked like.  We are heading in that direction, only a lot of people don't yet realize it yet.

    Parent
    Our cops are becoming skinheads; (none / 0) (#163)
    by Mr Natural on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 10:47:30 PM EST
    Death squads aren't so far behind.

    Parent
    I have hope (none / 0) (#8)
    by loveed on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 11:38:36 AM EST
    With different leadership,it's possible.

     

    Parent

    I agree (none / 0) (#11)
    by shoephone on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 11:40:55 AM EST
    Forget cheap labor in Asia, we are busy "outsourcing" all our jobs to the internet. Very important to note that internet giant Amazon is at the forefront of the fight to avoid paying sales taxes. It will be interesting to see what happens in the California case.

    Parent
    It feels like further "efficencies" (none / 0) (#12)
    by tigercourse on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 11:49:34 AM EST
    will drive unemployment up in the long term, if not the near term. This brave new world of our is scaring the hell out of me.

    Parent
    Meh (none / 0) (#14)
    by lilburro on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 11:50:33 AM EST
    Ecommerce companies still have managers, marketing departments, warehouses, etc.  It can be a very useful model for small businesses.

    Parent
    Yeah, well not everyone (5.00 / 2) (#15)
    by shoephone on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 11:56:28 AM EST
    trusts the "security" of the web for buying products. I certainly don't. Secondly, these companies need to quit shirking their responsibility and PAY THEIR PHUCKING TAXES.

    Parent
    I think "these" companies do charge (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 12:35:08 PM EST
    sales tax in the appropriate states, just like every other co. that is involved in in and out-of-state sales whether they are "on-line" sellers or not.

    For example, here are the states in which Amazon has physical facilities and therefor charges sales tax:

    Amazon.com LLC: KS, KY, ND, NY and WA
    Amazon Digital Services, Inc.: KS, KY, ND, NY and WA

    They follow the same sales tax laws that every other co. follows and has followed for as long as there has been interstate commerce.

    Also, fwiw, sales tax is paid by the customer, not by the business. The business merely collects it on behalf of the state and then gives it directly to the state.

    Parent

    I understand quite well how it works (none / 0) (#114)
    by shoephone on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 05:09:55 PM EST
    I produced a research study on tax policy and business subsidies for a major non-profit  organization, thank you very much. Amazon is in the forefront of companies trying to escape charging and paying sales tax. Like a whole lotta online retailers.

    As for Amazon following the law here in WA... well, duh. They're headquarted in Seattle. They have to follow the law here.

    Parent

    Then you'd think you'd know better. (none / 0) (#121)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 05:50:13 PM EST
    A 1992 Supreme Court decision (affirming an earlier decision) grants sellers the right not to collect sales tax unless they have a physical presence in that state.


    Parent
    fwiw, my biz also does out of state sales (none / 0) (#124)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 06:01:19 PM EST
    and I also have no interest in spending the time and money collecting and remitting sales tax to any other state other than the one I'm in.

    It takes too many hours as it is for me just to figure out what I need to remit to CA, if I had to do it for every other "phucking" state I'd be pretty "phucking" pissed off too.

    It ain't just Amazon that has a dog in this fight...

    Parent

    Oh yeah, I am most assuredly (none / 0) (#130)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 06:54:15 PM EST
    not an online seller...

    Parent
    Not "paying" sales taxes (none / 0) (#107)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 04:27:24 PM EST
    just collecting them and sending them on to the state.


    Parent
    See above (none / 0) (#115)
    by shoephone on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 05:10:31 PM EST
    Yup. (none / 0) (#70)
    by sweetthings on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 03:08:18 PM EST
    Though the real danger isn't outsourcing, it's automation. American workers can compete with Chinese workers...it's not fun, and it's sure as heck not easy, but it is possible. But no human can compete with a specialized automated system. And those are getting cheaper and more prevalent by the day.

    Just wait till we have a cheap, reliable system for allowing computers to process visual information, or until RFID chips get cheap enough that they can replace traditional store labels. Then the computer can take over driving and stocking shelves and a whole host of other jobs that still require people.

    It will be glorious, as long as we're prepared, as a society, to handle the fact that there simply won't be jobs for everyone. I don't think we're quite there yet, though.

    Parent

    In the not too distant future they are (none / 0) (#74)
    by tigercourse on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 03:16:52 PM EST
    going to get rid of most checkout people in large supermarkets. Those self scan lines work well. One person covers 4 or 5 instead of one person per.

    Parent
    I just read that some stores are (5.00 / 2) (#75)
    by observed on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 03:18:53 PM EST
    getting rid of self checkout lines.

    Parent
    One of the stores I shop (5.00 / 0) (#113)
    by ding7777 on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 04:55:56 PM EST
    at has converted the self-scanners to cashiers because  1) those lanes were rarely used and 2 )a human had to be on hand to help anyway

     - it also replaced the self-service lottery machine with another instant ticket kiosk machine

    Parent

    That's good to hear. (none / 0) (#119)
    by tigercourse on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 05:47:21 PM EST
    I refuse to use the self-checkouts (5.00 / 3) (#116)
    by Zorba on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 05:22:29 PM EST
    Call me an old curmudgeon, but there's little enough service in today's world as it is, and I like the checkers in the stores I use and don't want to see them laid off.  When my grocery store first put in the self scanners some years ago, one of the employees was bouncing around, urging people to use them.  When she got to me, I said "Are you going to give me a 5% discount on my groceries if I do the work?"  She looked absolutely shocked and said "Why, no!"  I said, "Then I'm not using them."  The next time I went in, another employee was touting the benefits of the self checkout; this time, I just said "It's against my religion."  I got another totally confused look.

    Parent
    Haha (none / 0) (#120)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 05:50:02 PM EST
    you're are funny. It hate the self scanner because they seem to hate me and always start beeping and screaming at me because somehow I have done something wrong. I, of course, have no idea what I did and I have to wait for someone to come and correct my "error". Honestly, it takes me LONGER to get through those things than if I had just gone to cashier.

    Parent
    A sense of humor (none / 0) (#133)
    by Zorba on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 07:14:25 PM EST
    (with a healthy dollop of sarcasm) is one of the few defenses I have in this crazy world.   ;-)  

    Parent
    Also, I'm lousy at (none / 0) (#167)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 12:47:26 AM EST
    bagging stuff.

    Those self-checkout things are reasonable to use if you have a small number of things and they've all got their bar codes on straight, but otherwise, forget it.  I think they could be useful as alternatives to the so-called "express" lanes you never come close to getting whiplash in.


    Parent

    In Germany, the self-bagging is (none / 0) (#168)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 12:52:28 AM EST
    preferred. Imagine that.

    Parent
    Interesting argument (none / 0) (#6)
    by lilburro on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 11:35:13 AM EST
    going on across a number of blogs.  Via Lawyers, Guns & Money, Crooked Timber:

    Neo-liberals tend to favor a combination of market mechanisms and technocratic solutions to solve social problems. But these kinds of solutions tend to discount politics - and in particular political collective action, which requires strong collective actors such as trade unions. This means that vaguely-leftish versions of neo-liberalism often have weak theories of politics, and in particular of the politics of collective action. I see Doug and others as arguing that successful political change requires large scale organized collective action, and that this in turn requires the correction of major power imbalances (e.g. between labor and capital). They're also arguing that neo-liberal policies at best tend not to help correct these imbalances, and they seem to me to have a pretty good case. Even if left-leaning neo-liberals are right to claim that technocratic solutions and market mechanisms can work to relieve disparities etc, it's hard for me to see how left-leaning neo-liberalism can generate any self-sustaining politics.

    Kevin Drum comments as well.

    From the jail beat... (none / 0) (#10)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 11:39:26 AM EST
    Bumbling jailers atb Rikers let 65,000 pounds of meat rot while the state cuts the food ration to prisoners due to the budget crunch.  The incaring incompetence speaks for itself, but I am particularly appalled they cut the bread ration in half...if thats what we gotta do to get in the black, I say we go bust-o and be done with it.

    And another settlement doled out because the NYPD is clueless about diabetes and almost killed another poor slob diabetic arrested for a non-crime.

    With cops and jailers like these, who needs criminals?  


    More correctional officers to monitor (none / 0) (#17)
    by oculus on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 12:03:24 PM EST
    freezer temps.?

    Seabrook [president of the Correction Officers' Benevolent Association] called on the department to hire more officers to help monitor the food - and suggested heads should roll.


    Parent
    Kdog, remind me (none / 0) (#28)
    by Zorba on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 12:45:54 PM EST
    not to read the comments on some of these linked sites.  The first article, from the Daily News, had some particularly vicious and obnoxious comments.  Some people seem to think, "Eh, they're prisoners, who cares what happens to them?"  Or even worse comments.  Jeez.  

    Parent
    My dear Z... (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 01:14:04 PM EST
    in all of the intertubes, only Talkleft comments are worth a damn:)

    Parent
    Ha. I've been curious about the (none / 0) (#42)
    by oculus on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 01:19:21 PM EST
    comments to Armando posts at DK.  More comments than here but not necessarily more cogent, though some are.  

    Parent
    That is a VERY true statement (none / 0) (#169)
    by sj on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 01:25:39 AM EST
    No job growth with capital flight (none / 0) (#41)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 01:19:06 PM EST
    Which "wierd political pholosophy" (none / 0) (#44)
    by ruffian on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 01:52:11 PM EST
    is he referring to? The insistence on compromise with the GOP?

    Parent
    Change (none / 0) (#47)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 02:04:20 PM EST
    Obama just became the first president to openly support gay marriages.

    Link

    Glad to hear the Pres. changed his mind. (5.00 / 3) (#48)
    by oculus on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 02:09:46 PM EST
    Me too (none / 0) (#56)
    by MO Blue on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 02:27:08 PM EST
    Hope DOMA actually gets repealed either through legislation or the courts. Unconstitutional and bigoted discrimination in IMO.

    Parent
    Another Increment (5.00 / 5) (#59)
    by davnee on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 02:33:11 PM EST
    I wouldn't use the words you just did to describe his endorsement of DOMA's repeal.  It's a big step in his "evolution", no doubt, but I fully expect him to continue to claim that he still believes that marriage is between a man and a woman, but that the matter lies with the states and that the federal government should not discriminate as between gay and straight married couples.  Hope I'm wrong, but I doubt it.

    And the cynic in me can't help but note that this is a great liberal fig leaf to hide behind when he goes ahead and sells the American people out this week with the debt ceiling settlement.  Just watch as progressives cheer his "evolved" liberal consciousness and rush to fill his campaign coffers all while he enthusiastically embraces conservative fiscal policy and crushes the economic futures of working and middle class Americans under his boot.

    All that said, it's a great step forward for equality.


    Parent

    the article to which you linked (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by The Addams Family on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 02:46:55 PM EST
    reports that Obama

    is throwing his support behind the Respect For Marriage Act--the bill to repeal the 1996 Defense Of Marriage Act, which banned the federal government from recognizing same-sex marriage even for couples married under state law

    it took him long enough, but OK - that's nice

    does this mean that Obama has also repudiated his long-held & despicable "states' rights" position regarding marriage equality?

    maybe it's just me but i'm not seeing that

    i'm sure i seem ungrateful

    Parent

    yup (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by lilburro on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 03:01:52 PM EST
    getting rid of DOMA is good, so cheers to Obama, but it is not quite the same as supporting gay marriage.

    Parent
    it's roughly analogous (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by The Addams Family on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 03:26:41 PM EST
    to Obama's signing of the Lilly Ledbetter Act, a signing that Obama & his cheerleaders like to crow about

    yes, it's good that Obama signed it - the Act reverses an earlier Supreme Court decision & makes it easier for employees to sue for past pay discrimination - but it doesn't go far enough

    Employees will still face obstacles to enforcing their substantive rights against pay discrimination - lack of knowledge of disparate pay or its causes, cognitive obstacles to the quick perception of discrimination, as well as fear of -- and insufficient protection from - retaliation.

    the analogy would be perfect if Obama had "evolved" after spending months on the campaign trail saying he believed that fair pay is meant for white men only & if he had invited Goodyear execs to share the stage at his rallies & speak at his inauguration

    & yes, again, i am sure i sound ungrateful

    Parent

    The Act (none / 0) (#81)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 03:36:41 PM EST
    Does everything that the federal government is constitutionally able to do, including specifically granting federal rights and protections to gay couples and families living in states that recognize marriage equality.

    "Under the RMA, same-sex couples and their families would be eligible for important federal benefits and protections such as family and medical leave or Social Security spousal and survivors' benefits, but the federal government could not grant state-level rights."

    As with many things, you are banging on Obama for not going far enough when it is impossible for him to do so.  This is as far as he can go without the states all signing on as well.

    You don't sound ungrateful.  You just sound like you aren't being very fair in what you are demanding from the President.

    Parent

    in other words, the Act, (5.00 / 2) (#85)
    by The Addams Family on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 03:45:08 PM EST
    if it had to do with marriage equality as that ideal applies to interracial couples, would make interracial couples

    eligible for important federal benefits and protections such as family and medical leave or Social Security spousal and survivors' benefits, but the federal government could not grant state-level rights.

    what would be a "state-level right" with respect to marriage equality for two people of different races?

    ever heard of Loving v. Virginia, 388 U.S. 1 (1967)?

    The Court declared Virginia's anti-miscegenation statute, the "Racial Integrity Act of 1924", unconstitutional, thereby ending all race-based legal restriction on marriage in the United States.


    Parent
    More information: (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by Anne on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 03:46:37 PM EST
    By repealing Section 2, the Respect for Marriage Act returns to traditional principles of comity and Full Faith and Credit.  Under the RMA, same-sex couples and their families would be eligible for important federal benefits and protections such as family and medical leave or Social Security spousal and survivors' benefits, but the federal government could not grant state-level rights.  The bill does not require states that have not yet enacted legal protections for same-sex couples to recognize a marriage.  Nor does it obligate any person, state, locality, or religious organization to celebrate or license a marriage between two persons of the same sex.  This legislation only requires the federal government to equally apply its policy of looking to the states in determining what legal relationships are eligible for federal benefits.

    Link

    Parent

    President Barack "States' Rights" Obama (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by The Addams Family on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 03:51:31 PM EST
    change you can believe in

    unless you choose to believe your lyin' eyes

    Parent

    Repealing DOMA (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by lilburro on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 03:59:12 PM EST
    does not exactly mean supporting gay marriage.  Saying "I believe in marriage equality" and supporting the repeal of DOMA are not quite the same.  That said, repealing DOMA is incredibly important.  If someone asked the President point blank his stance on gay marriage (and they do every so often) it would be interesting to hear what he would have to say after this announcement today.

    Parent
    I would have posted pretty much the (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by Anne on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 03:19:24 PM EST
    same comment, but I figured I'd get the "there's just no pleasing you!" comments from a certain commenter whose name rhymes with ABG...

    My first thought was, he's not supporting same-sex marriage, he's taking the path of least resistance, now that there are a number of states that have paved the way for same-sex couples to marry.  To me, support for same-sex marriage sounds like, "I support the right of all adults to marry, to have that marriage recognized by the government with all the rights and privileges married couples enjoy, regardless of their sexual orientation, and regardless of where they live."

    Granted, support for repeal of DOMA is a good thing - but doesn't it almost have to happen if the restrictions imposed by DADT are to be fully repealed? And it's better to voice that support than not, but it's Obama's usual half-measure, one that will likely be followed by some incomprehensible move by DOJ that suggests, well, maybe he's not so supportive.  

    Or something.

    The other shoe always drops, the WORM always shows up, so as usual, it's probably best to wait and see just how "supportive" this support turns out to be.

    Parent

    Anne (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 03:39:53 PM EST
    Remember when I said to someone here that no matter how positive a act Obama does (including one that is completely unprecedented by a sitting POTUS) that he wouldn't be given any credit or the credit would somehow be twisted into another attack.

    This is one of those times.

    I would note that no legitimate candidate for President has ever advocated doing more than what Obama has just done.

    Parent

    I'm still waiting for your analysis (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by Anne on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 04:03:13 PM EST
    of the "deal" that's shaping up on the debt ceiling - you know, the one you were so positive was going to be a nothing-but-net 3-pointer for Obama?

    I said support for repeal of DOMA was a good thing, but I am not going to breathlessly moon over Obama's statement since, frankly, I should have been able to expect nothing less from him from before he was elected - you know, almost three years ago - and experience tells me that it probably will be walked back or sideways in some form, probably before the day is out.

    Parent

    There is no analysis (2.00 / 1) (#97)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 04:13:14 PM EST
    from me because everything you see is just talk at this point.  I have said for weeks that we have no idea how this will end and people on all sides simply use the latest leak to attack the person or group they don't like.

    I have no comment until we have a proposal being voted on.  Everything else is just posturing.

    However, in more good news today, Obama may be pushing to make all birth control free to women with insurance.

    Link

    That's been a huge feminist goal for years and he's making a path towards it happening.  

    Parent

    that would be very good (5.00 / 3) (#101)
    by The Addams Family on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 04:18:15 PM EST
    although in fact the huge feminist (not postfeminist) goal, while certainly not disregarding the needs of insured women, has been to make birth control free to all women

    since you are a feminist & a scholar of feminism, i'm sure you can appreciate the correction

    Parent

    "May be?" I think that's a generous (5.00 / 2) (#118)
    by Anne on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 05:32:52 PM EST
    spin of what the article states, namely:

    The Obama Administration commissioned the non-partisan Institute of Medicine (IOM) panel to recommend which preventative health services all insurance plans should fully cover under the Affordable Care Act. In addition to covering birth control, the IOM suggested in its report that health insurers pay for HPV testing, contraceptive and lactation counseling, HIV screening and breast-feeding equipment.

    Nowhere in the article is there a quote or a leak or a whisper of Obama taking any stand or position on the IOM's report.

    Going to the link embedded in the HuffPo article, one finds this:

    The list of approved preventable services such as cancer screenings, colonoscopies, and flu shots is selected by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. Clinical Preventive Services for Women: Closing the Gaps, a new report from the IOM, reviews the current list of preventive services for women, examines additional screenings and services that have been shown to be effective, and recommends those that should be considered for inclusion in the guidelines.

    You seem to be the poster child for "truthiness."

    Parent

    "free to women with insurance." (5.00 / 2) (#165)
    by Mr Natural on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 10:56:13 PM EST
    The only problem being that when you've factored in the enormous cost of insurance it is hardly free.

    Parent
    "legitimate" candidates for president? (4.00 / 1) (#95)
    by The Addams Family on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 04:03:52 PM EST
    what are those?

    was Dennis Kucinich an illegitimate candidate?

    was Carol Mosely Braun?

    was Al Sharpton?

    were they pulling off some kind of caucus fraud?

    The Rev. Al Sharpton . . . said the very question of whether gays ought to be eligible for marriage was insulting.

    "It's like asking 'do I support black marriage or white marriage. . . . The inference of the question is that gays are not like other human beings."

    Rep. Dennis Kucinich, D-Ohio, and former Illinois Sen. Carol Moseley Braun also said they supported gay marriage.

    this was in 2003, by the way

    i find Obama's "states' rights" position contemptible

    Parent

    None of those people (none / 0) (#98)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 04:14:24 PM EST
    Had any shot of being president, which is why they could say and do whatever they want.

    It's easy to be bold when you have nothing to lose.

    Parent

    your response (5.00 / 3) (#103)
    by The Addams Family on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 04:20:10 PM EST
    speaks very eloquently for itself

    Parent
    Brilliant timing... (5.00 / 1) (#164)
    by Mr Natural on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 10:51:49 PM EST
    It will distract some of us from his [expected] capitulation on the budget deal.

    Parent
    To the New Yorkers: (none / 0) (#51)
    by Dr Molly on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 02:20:39 PM EST
    Headed to NYC mid-August (I know, bad time to go, but only time available) with a group of family and friends, to celebrate many milestones and have tons of fun.

    Suggestions for things not to miss? eats? plays? (I know I won't be getting tix to Book of Mormon, but others?) It's been years since I've been to NYC.

    Peep the (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 02:49:48 PM EST
    Summerstage schedule...lots of free fun, some fun for a fee.  Get on line early for the free shows, they fill up quick sometimes.

    If you venture outside Manhattan...the best pizza is in Queens at Amore, the best Lebanese is in Brooklyn at Sally's...Wo Hop is my spot in Chinatown.

    And The Lemon Ice King of Corona for dessert...accept no imitations!

    Remember its a police state here, so jot down my email if ya need bail:)


    Parent

    thanks kdog. (none / 0) (#65)
    by Dr Molly on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 03:00:47 PM EST
    My pleasure... (none / 0) (#68)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 03:06:33 PM EST
    and like I urge all NYC visitors, if feasible get out of Manhattan and see the real NY...so much diversity.

    Consider a day trip to one of Long Island's beaches to beat the heat.

    And The Bronx Zoo rocks.

    Parent

    jones beach is really nice (none / 0) (#72)
    by CST on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 03:14:24 PM EST
    it's the only one i've been to, but it's relatively close to the city too.

    Parent
    Trying to remeber the name... (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 03:32:05 PM EST
    of the beach/town I went to just outside Boston, where a seagull stole a bite of my sandwich right out my hand.  

    I remember thinking even the local seagulls are Mass-holes:)

    Loved the beaches up in Maine though...dog days of August and the water was still ice cold.

    Parent

    was it north or south? (none / 0) (#82)
    by CST on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 03:38:30 PM EST
    If you know.  Hull, Ipswich, Revere, Manchester...

    There's a lot of coastal towns, but the really nice beaches are down on the cape & islands if you're willing to treck there.  The cape is a solid day/weekend trip though, and it's totally worth it.  Even though sitting in traffic blows, once you cross the bridge over the canal, the drive is pretty nice.  The cape is a lot like long island minus any remnant of the city.

    I remember when I went to Jamaica a few years back, and all the locals were complaining that the water wasn't as nice as it usually is since it was only 70 degrees or something.  Ha!  I swim in the north atlantic.  That $hit does not mess around.  The best time to go in is definitely late August/early September, but even then it's not exactly a hot tub.

    Parent

    I prefer Robert Moses... (none / 0) (#78)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 03:23:24 PM EST
    a little further east...not as crowded.  But Jones is nice, and Long Beach is cool too even closer to the city.  And thats just South Shore!

    Montauk is way the f*ck out (next stop Europe!), too far for a day trip...but a cool little scene out there, without all the Hamptons rich mofo airs.

    Parent

    Plays: "Jerusalem" and "The Man (none / 0) (#58)
    by oculus on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 02:32:23 PM EST
    with the Motherf*ucking Hat," both avail. at half price booth in early July, although not the greatest seats.  Delacorte Theater (Central Park):  "All's Well that Ends Well."  Free, but you need to wait in line for tickets:  see Public Theatre website.  "Book of Mormon" is clever and very funny.  Also tres expensive.  Royal Shakespeare Co. at Park Ave. Armory--don't know when that ends.  "As You Like" is excellently done.  

    Parent
    P.S. Not a "New Yorker." (none / 0) (#60)
    by oculus on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 02:37:05 PM EST
    Thanks (none / 0) (#64)
    by Dr Molly on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 03:00:30 PM EST
    good suggestions.

    Parent
    You can sign up (none / 0) (#145)
    by BackFromOhio on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 08:21:30 PM EST
    for Goldstar for free -- there are deals on tix to many events around NYC (and other cities).

    Parent
    thank you (none / 0) (#147)
    by Dr Molly on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 08:27:25 PM EST
    Also (none / 0) (#181)
    by BackFromOhio on Fri Jul 22, 2011 at 12:47:52 PM EST
    if you google craigslist for nyc, go to things for sale and click on tickets, then click on by owner, and check daily, you can find discount tickets for Bway shows, Lincoln Center, etc.

    Parent
    You can also take AmTrack up the Hudson (none / 0) (#166)
    by nycstray on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 11:36:12 PM EST
    to those locations and enjoy the view. Cold Springs is another nice stop. That's what we car-less folks in NYC did :)

    Parent
    i have a question, (none / 0) (#61)
    by cpinva on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 02:39:03 PM EST
    directed specifically to jeralyn/BTD/any other attorneys who regularly post on here:

    as a general rule, how egregiously must one breach the ABA and state bar code of ethics, before one is subject to disbarment?

    i have a specific reason for asking, not merely idle curiousity. rep. bachman has been publicly accusing an entire class of litigants of committing wholesale fraud, in their class-action (and fairly recently settled) suit against the agricultural dept., for race discrimination in farm lending. i refer to the pigford case, of an entire group of african american farmers, denied loans solely because of race.

    this goes well beyond mere political campaign hyperbole, into outright slander/defamation. reps. bachmann and steven king have both asserted, in public, on multiple occasions, absent any tangible evidence to support their allegations, that members of the pigford class filed fraudulent claims.

    if reps. bachmann & king had evidence to support these claims, why didn't they provide said evidence to the DOJ, while the case was ongoing? if they have no verifiable evidence to support their allegations, why isn't she being stripped of her license to practice law?

    yes, both bachmann & king are acknowledged whackjobs, but bachmann is an attorney, and should know better. perhaps she feels the rules don't apply to her, because some invisible guy in the sky is on her side, or not. i really have no clue how the gray jellied substance, masquerading as a brain in her skull functions. i don't care. it's just time someone slapped her down, and pointed to the bright-line even she can't cross, without repercussions.

    Not a winner, IMO. Expressing opinion, (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by oculus on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 04:02:49 PM EST
    not really practicing law.  

    Parent
    yes, (none / 0) (#142)
    by cpinva on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 07:49:27 PM EST
    but she makes a big deal out of LLM in tax (though she apparently didn't learn much in the program), and that she worked her way through law school. as well, she's a "family values" kinda gal. of course, she neglects to mention that the family she's refering to is the soprano's.

    Parent
    According to a post at (none / 0) (#146)
    by BackFromOhio on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 08:24:37 PM EST
    well, er, orangeland, Wm & Mary has never offered an LL.M. in tax.  

    Parent
    That appears to be correct (4.50 / 2) (#159)
    by Peter G on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 10:07:14 PM EST
    William & Mary says it offers an LL.M. for foreign lawyers in the U.S. legal system.  It does not offer any other LL.M. degree.  It does sponsor an annual advanced tax law conference.  Perhaps she attended that one time.  What she told 60 minutes was "I'm not only a lawyer, I have a post-doctorate degree in federal tax law from William and Mary. I've worked in serious scholarship."  Assuming that by "doctorate" she means her Oral Roberts (now Regent) J.D. (most lawyers do not refer to their J.D. as a "doctoral" degree or a "doctorate"), that implies an LL.M., which is a specialized degree above the J.D., usually reflecting an additional year of full-time study.  A lie about what degrees you have can be the end of a campaign.  A claim that getting a law degree involves "serious scholarship" is puffery, not quite a lie (but close).

    Parent
    apparently, (none / 0) (#161)
    by cpinva on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 10:30:18 PM EST
    W & M did, at one time (concurrent with rep. bachmann's matriculation there) offer an LLM in tax, as a host of attorneys represent that they too are possessed of one, earned at W & M. they no longer offer it, and haven't for some time, but it did used to be part of the wythe school of law offerings.

    not opinion, bachmann and king have stated, as fact, that they know the pigford litigants engaged in fraudulent claims, not that they thought they did. there is a difference between a declarative statement and a statement of opinion.

    Parent

    Ok, I see that does seem to be so (5.00 / 1) (#162)
    by Peter G on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 10:43:47 PM EST
    My prior comment (although cast in terms of what "appears") was wrong in its primary implication.  See here, for example.  The rest of what I wrote is correct, about the "doctorate" in law.

    Parent
    According to (none / 0) (#150)
    by BackFromOhio on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 08:36:09 PM EST
    martindalehubbell.com, Michele M. Bachmann received her J.D. from Oral Roberts University -- year not indicated, and was admitted to practice in 1986. There is no mention in martindale of her having an LL.M.

    Parent
    Great new Keiser Report (none / 0) (#153)
    by Dadler on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 08:43:42 PM EST
    "Satan called, and . . . (none / 0) (#175)
    by Towanda on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 03:22:07 PM EST
    . . . he wants his weather back."  A sign just shared by friends on FB.

    The temp has hit 98, the heat index is 110 here in aka Chicago -- and before 3 p.m., so the temps still are climbing.

    This is horrible.  Did anyone else see the video of that fog yesterday that would have caused Carl Sandburg to swoon, the fog that closed the city beaches, when so many people most needed to stay cool?  Because the wind across the lake was hotter than the lake, the fog was so dense that lifeguards could not see folks in the water, even a few feet away.

    The winds from Minnesota, Canada, etc., do not happen.  Except in Hades, perhaps. Or Chicago, whichever.  

    Hades or Chicago? (none / 0) (#176)
    by Zorba on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 03:25:01 PM EST
    There's a difference?  Sorry, just kidding!  I love Chicago, and have many happy memories of my visits there when I was growing up.  ;-)

    Parent
    It's too hot to make sense here (5.00 / 0) (#177)
    by Towanda on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 03:38:54 PM EST
    clearly!  Corrected post:

    The temp has hit 98, the heat index is 110 here in Hades aka Chicago -- and before 3 p.m., so the temps still are climbing.

    This is horrible.  Did anyone else see the video of that fog yesterday that would have caused Carl Sandburg to swoon, the fog that closed the city beaches, when so many people most needed to stay cool?  Because the wind across the lake was hotter than the lake, the fog was so dense that lifeguards could not see folks in the water, even a few feet away.

    Our winds are from Minnesota, Canada, etc., so these warm winds do not happen.  Except in Hades, perhaps. Or Chicago, whichever.  


    Parent

    I worry about y'all up north (5.00 / 0) (#180)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 06:53:38 PM EST
    during these heatwaves. We're accustomed to this, but  a 110 heat index kills. Amazing how many folks in northern areas don't have central air or even window units.

    Y'all stay cool and STAY HYDRATED! Force yourselves to drink water or sports drinks if nothing else. If you work outside, consider yourself a quart low of water pretty much all the time. Inside, a pint low. Seriously, keep up the hydration, and make your friends and family hydrate, also.

    Alcohol, even beer, avoid it in this heat. It just dehydrates you. Coffee, the same.

    Have water drinking contests with co-workers to see who can drink a bottle the fastest... everyone put either a quarter or a buck in the pot to make it competitive. In the Army, we'd hold hydration formation-- everyone had to drink a canteen of water, then hold it upside down to make sure it was gone.

    Parent

    So sorry! (none / 0) (#179)
    by Zorba on Wed Jul 20, 2011 at 06:44:45 PM EST
    And yet, there are still many idiots who do not believe in climate change.

    Parent