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Monday Afternoon Open Thread

BTD is busy today and I'm off to the jail. Here's an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    You guys see... (5.00 / 4) (#4)
    by kdog on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 01:48:54 PM EST
    how the muslim protesters watched the christian protesters backs for Sunday Mass in the square?  Just as christians watched muslim backs during prayer time.  Totally f*ckin' awesome...muslim and christian arm in arm, fighting for freedom...take note World.

    dude (none / 0) (#5)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 01:53:05 PM EST
    you are messin with the meme.  

    repeat after me:

    ITS ALL ABOUT MOOSLUM XTREAMISTS

    Parent

    I was going to add... (5.00 / 0) (#6)
    by kdog on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 01:55:44 PM EST
    and suck on that haters!  

    Seems the youth are sick and tired of the old divide and conquer.

    Parent

    the amazing part is (none / 0) (#9)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 01:58:16 PM EST
    youth in Israel seem to also feel the same way in large numbers.  "they just want to be free"

    Parent
    Yes. (none / 0) (#13)
    by Matt v on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 02:09:40 PM EST
     When will ours become sick of "Dulce et decorum est pro corporatum mori"???

    Parent
    Help a dummy out Matt... (none / 0) (#16)
    by kdog on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 02:16:33 PM EST
    Sweet to die for one's corporation?

    Parent
    Yep. (none / 0) (#43)
    by Matt v on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 03:07:34 PM EST
     If I'm allowed, it's not that much of a leap to think corporations will likely adapt Horace's famous line about it being glorious to die in war for one's fatherland to the exigencies of corporate warfare. After all, they also serve, who only sit in cubicles...  Wish I had Wilfred Owen's gift for verse when he wrote his poem in reply to Horace: http://www.warpoetry.co.uk/owen1.html  

    Parent
    Of course you're allowed... (none / 0) (#64)
    by kdog on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 03:45:33 PM EST
    I'm fond of borrowing a phrase myself...I just needed help with the latin.

    And in a sense, we're already there brother...in the CEO we trust, and starve for him if necessary.

    Parent

    I thought (none / 0) (#7)
    by Zorba on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 01:57:16 PM EST
    the same thing, Captain.  Don't anyone tell Fox News- it might create cognitive dissonance!

    Parent
    which is truly odd (none / 0) (#10)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 01:59:24 PM EST
    considering their feigned concern for christians there.

    Parent
    also (none / 0) (#8)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 01:57:21 PM EST
    I was hearing some demographic data that might put the "poll" thats been trotted out here over and over in a slightly different light.  it seems about half of the population is under 25.  which means, if polls are done the same way there as here - i have no idea if they are - that the poll was a poll of old people assuming that there, as here, most young people do not have land lines but cell phones.

    Parent
    Actually (none / 0) (#14)
    by jbindc on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 02:14:45 PM EST
    This the data in this poll was gotten in a face to face method (see p. 21).

    Cell phones had nothing to do with it, so your theory of "young people use the cell phone more exclusively" doesn't work here.

    Parent

    just wanted to (none / 0) (#17)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 02:16:34 PM EST
    make you google

    Parent
    Re-google (none / 0) (#20)
    by jbindc on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 02:18:51 PM EST
    I already knew that when I looked at the poll last week.

    Parent
    And I had heard the numbers (none / 0) (#100)
    by BackFromOhio on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 06:38:42 PM EST
    are 40% of population is 30 and under.  

    Parent
    whats more stupid - Alan Simpson (none / 0) (#15)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 02:15:31 PM EST
    in charge of the catfood commission or this guy in charge of anything related to Egypt:

    Frank Wisner, President Barack Obama's envoy to Cairo who infuriated the White House this weekend by urging Hosni Mubarak to remain President of Egypt, works for a New York and Washington law firm which works for the dictator's own Egyptian government.
    Mr Wisner's astonishing remarks - - shocked the democratic opposition in Egypt and called into question Mr Obama's judgement, as well as that of Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.
    The US State Department and Mr Wisner himself have now both claimed that his remarks were made in a "personal capacity". But there is nothing "personal" about Mr Wisner's connections with the litigation firm Patton Boggs, which openly boasts that it advises "the Egyptian military, the Egyptian Economic Development Agency, and has handled arbitrations and litigation on the [Mubarak] government's behalf in Europe and the US". Oddly, not a single journalist raised this extraordinary connection with US government officials - nor the blatant conflict of interest it appears to represent.


    Parent
    Wisner (none / 0) (#19)
    by jbindc on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 02:17:53 PM EST
    "doesn't speak for the administration"

    White House press secretary Robert Gibbs told reporters on Monday that Wisner "is not an employee of the government" and that he wasn't speaking for the administration when he made his comments at a conference in Munich.

    "He was, based on his broad experience in Egypt, asked by the State Department, and I would direct you to the State Department ... to travel to Cairo and have a specific conversation with President Mubarak," Gibbs said. "He did and reported that back to us. But his views on who should or shouldn't be the head of Egypt don't represent the views of our administration. The views of our administration are that those are the decisions that will be made by the Egyptians."



    Parent
    I think this is bunk (none / 0) (#21)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 02:20:08 PM EST
    based on his broad experience in Egypt

    it was because of his relationship with Mubarak

    Parent

    btw (none / 0) (#23)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 02:22:12 PM EST
    the point was not that they denied he had any authority.  it was that they had to deny it.

    Parent
    I'm not arguing with you (none / 0) (#27)
    by jbindc on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 02:32:36 PM EST
    Looks like another amateur mistake by the administration.

    Left hand needs to know what right hand is doing.

    Parent

    what left and right (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 02:33:25 PM EST
    I would think O made both of those decisions.

    Parent
    Think so? I don't. (none / 0) (#90)
    by Towanda on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 04:49:29 PM EST
    Wisner was sent by Obama's administration, so that it could send contradictory messages again.

    A new twist:  11th-dimensional diplomacy.

    Parent

    I am ope to that possibility (none / 0) (#92)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 04:52:35 PM EST
    I did hear Hillary say almost the same thing this weekend.

    Parent
    Just a guess, Capt. (none / 0) (#59)
    by christinep on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 03:35:37 PM EST
    But, "envoys" with or without portfolio are a typical means of contact in international crises. Given Wisner's purported background--esp.as one having a contact with Mubarak--an early dispatch of such a one follows normal "feelers" approaches, etc.  What seems a tad different here is that Wisner may either be trying to "burn them" (State) with his own approach or the communication got skewed. At this point, it doesn't really matter since the Administration has rightly distanced itself from Wisner's earlier push (and, undoubtedly, also obtained some intelligence about the Mubarak situation in the exchange.)

    Parent
    sure (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 03:47:18 PM EST
    but is he naive or uninformed?  not good either way.

    Parent
    Envoy Wisner abruptly left (none / 0) (#86)
    by KeysDan on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 04:40:23 PM EST
    Egypt after, apparently, not only failing to coax Hosni Mubarak's immediate departure but  also, gathering the  personal animus of Mubarak in the process.  This may not have augured well for Wisner's continued lobbying contracts.   While the State Department is distancing itself from Wisner, I am worried that it is not distancing itself from Wisner's idea, although presented in better gift wrapping.  

    While it is true that envoys selected to bear bad tidings may be "friends" so as to soften the blow, a visit to Mubarak might have been better orchestrated with a good cop/bad cop.  The bad cop's job would be to inform Mubarak that the jig is up.  This was, after all, a business deal--we paid for certain services and he agreed to provide them.  He can no longer deliver, hence, the deal is off.  We are moving on and so should you.  

    Parent

    What services has he not provided? (none / 0) (#87)
    by Towanda on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 04:43:30 PM EST
    From what I've read, the regime and elite and the like in Egypt understand that U.S. millions are a payoff for leaving Israel alone.  Egypt has done so.  

    When did we ever make part of the deal that Mubarak bring real democracy?  Doubtful we ever tied his hands that way.  We're not that good at this stuff (evidence: all of the countries that take our millions and don't get the money to their people).

    Parent

    Well, whatever services he was to (none / 0) (#98)
    by KeysDan on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 05:23:26 PM EST
    provide, he is no longer able to provide them with reasonable assurances for  stability and quiet in the streets.  

    Parent
    Task of Frank Wisner (none / 0) (#47)
    by Andreas on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 03:14:09 PM EST
    As was to be expected Frank Wisner was sent to Egypt by the Democrat Barack Obama is to help keep the Mubarak torture regime in power.

    Parent
    did you see downthread (none / 0) (#48)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 03:15:57 PM EST
    that Glen Beck is totally with you on the socialist/muslim thing?


    Parent
    What a combo (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by christinep on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 03:37:15 PM EST
    Beck & the Socialist Workers org., that is.

    Parent
    "The World Implodes" (none / 0) (#79)
    by Andreas on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 04:22:09 PM EST
    I have seen the "World Implodes" video. Beck represents the fear of imperialism that the international working class is continuing what began in 1917: world revolution. The world of imperialism implodes. I have no reason to object to that conclusion.

    Parent
    btw (none / 0) (#50)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 03:17:47 PM EST
    you DID see that the administration walked that back faster than a Micheal Jackson moonwalk right?

    Parent
    Words (none / 0) (#78)
    by Andreas on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 04:17:40 PM EST
    They did not explain why Wisner was selected as a special agent of the Obama administration. They were aware that he is a know supporter of the Mubarak regime.

    Parent
    no (none / 0) (#81)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 04:25:34 PM EST
    as a matter of fact they did not.  and it is an excellent question.  personally I lean more toward incompetence than evil.

    I actually believe that Obama may actually give a rats a$$ about the people who populate our puppet democracies.

     

    Parent

    and (none / 0) (#84)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 04:32:03 PM EST
    I think they like him.  its clear from watching those demonstrations that Obama is clearly an inspirational figure to those young people in the streets.

    lets hope he lives up to it.

    Parent

    Curious about something (none / 0) (#85)
    by Towanda on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 04:39:43 PM EST
    re your interesting field, which one of my nephews is pursuing.  Is there a lot of autonomy in terms of hours?  (I note that you must not have to work Mondays and Fridays.  Do you get to do, say, 10-hour days?)

    Parent
    autonomy in terms of hours (none / 0) (#88)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 04:45:30 PM EST
    depends entirely on the place.  we do because we have something they call the FWE. or flexible work environment.  the way that works is we only HAVE to be here 2 hours a day.  of course we still  have tons of work to do so 2 hour days never happen.  but what does happen is that you get to leave when you are waiting for someone to finish something or something else.  we spend a lot of time waiting it seems.
    are you assuming I dont have to work because I chatter all day?  sort of.  it just seems that I have a lot of free time on mondays and fridays for whatever reason.
    in general though like I said it studio by studio.  and in general we work a lot.  I have had a couple of 90 hour weeks in the last few months.  is gets much busier when we are closing on a deadline.  of which we have many.


    Parent
    oh (none / 0) (#91)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 04:51:32 PM EST
    and the last deadline was friday so today is planning and paperwork.  

    and blogclogging.


    Parent

    Thanks -- that would be good for him (none / 0) (#96)
    by Towanda on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 05:01:23 PM EST
    as he has some characteristics that would make him successful with a lot of autonomy -- especially with (I was trying to remember the term) flexible hours, as you say.  He's not ADD, he's not exactly Asperger's -- very smart, though, as often is the case in those cases -- but needs sometimes to just get up and get around.  At other times, he's OCD, capable of a binge of an incredible numbers of hours at a sitting.

    Then again, I've just described many a typical teenager, I guess!  But some of our metabolisms (I understand this oddly alternating set of characteristics well) just don't outgrow that so soon.

    Parent

    That's NOT OCD (none / 0) (#101)
    by BackFromOhio on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 06:44:51 PM EST
    It could just be plain ole ordinary concentration, OR, there is a type of ADD Amen calls "overfocused".


    Parent
    What are you saying? He was born in (none / 0) (#121)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Feb 08, 2011 at 07:58:45 AM EST
    Egypt, not Kenya? ;-P

    Parent
    trouble in paradise (we may need more popcorn) (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 02:44:27 PM EST
    Fox News's Glenn Beck lashed out at Weekly Standard editor Bill Kristol on his radio show this morning, accusing Kristol of betraying conservatism and missing the significance of what Beck sees as an alliance between Islamism and socialism.

    "I don't even know if you understand what conservatives are anymore, Billy," Beck said in his extended, sarcastic attack on Kristol. "People like Bill Kristol, I don't think they stand for anything any more. All they stand for is power. They'll do anything to keep their little fiefdom together, and they'll do anything to keep the Republican power entrenched."

    and Kristol on Beck?


    When Glenn Beck rants about the caliphate taking over the Middle East from Morocco to the Philippines, and lists (invents?) the connections between caliphate-promoters and the American left, he brings to mind no one so much as Robert Welch and the John Birch Society. He's marginalizing himself, just as his predecessors did back in the early 1960s.


    LOL (none / 0) (#38)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 02:59:56 PM EST
    might be the first time and the last time I ever agree with Beck. He is right about Crystal BUT the thing is conservatives in general don't know what conservatism stands for and Beck is included in that analysis unless you consider psychopathic behavior as a conservative stance.

    Parent
    I was thinking that (5.00 / 3) (#39)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 03:01:33 PM EST
    when Bill Kristol is the voice of reason . . .

    I honestly dont know how to finish that.

    Parent

    Something (none / 0) (#46)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 03:08:08 PM EST
    to think about. Huh?

    Parent
    Next will be dogs and cats laying together, (none / 0) (#122)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Feb 08, 2011 at 08:00:17 AM EST
    and ghostbusters getting called out in New York to fight the Stay-Puff Marshmallow Man.

    Parent
    Wait! (none / 0) (#89)
    by sj on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 04:46:29 PM EST
    They're both right!  Someone send them an anchor.

    Parent
    Ya see your boy Glenn... (none / 0) (#68)
    by kdog on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 03:48:35 PM EST
    all decked out in hooded cape and staff like some kind of druid high priest?  Pretty funny sh*t.

    Parent
    no (none / 0) (#70)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 03:50:57 PM EST
    if you are serious I need a link

    Parent
    Imus... (none / 0) (#71)
    by kdog on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 03:53:48 PM EST
    was in tears laughing about on his show this morning...I'm running out the door, google Glenn Beck Cape and it shall be yours good sir.

    Parent
    done (none / 0) (#73)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 03:59:01 PM EST
    wow
    and people still take this one seriously.  

    like I said.  we are a nation of idiots.


    Parent

    Wow is right (none / 0) (#82)
    by Zorba on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 04:29:00 PM EST
    I don't think Glenn has the intelligence to read Lord of the Rings, so he must be channeling one of the Harry Potter characters (and even Harry Potter would be a stretch for him).

    Parent
    I think Beck may think (none / 0) (#105)
    by DFLer on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 09:26:26 PM EST
    that he's channeling Moses, what with the staff and robe and all, leading (someone) out of Egypt??

    Parent
    Governed (none / 0) (#115)
    by cal1942 on Tue Feb 08, 2011 at 01:44:03 AM EST
    by idiots who were selected by idiots.

    There is a link on the same page to a story about Beck, the self-appointed arbiter of patriotism.


    Parent

    I think capes are an underused (none / 0) (#123)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Feb 08, 2011 at 08:01:58 AM EST
    fashion accessory. I am partial to the red-sil-lined Dracula type capes, though.

    Parent
    we are a nation (5.00 / 0) (#41)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 03:06:19 PM EST
    of idiots

    Only 27 percent of likely voters favor raising the nation's $14.3 trillion debt ceiling, while 62 percent oppose it, according to an exclusive poll for The Hill.

    congratulations fox news.  mission accomplished.

    How many people (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by jbindc on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 03:07:23 PM EST
    actually know what the debt ceiling is or why it's good or not good to raise it?  How many members of Congress could accurately answer that?

    Parent
    27% (5.00 / 0) (#45)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 03:08:06 PM EST
    apparently

    Parent
    I doubt that (none / 0) (#49)
    by jbindc on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 03:16:02 PM EST
    And I think you do too.

    Parent
    wrong again (5.00 / 0) (#51)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 03:18:13 PM EST
    I dont doubt it at all.

    Parent
    why do you doubt it? (none / 0) (#52)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 03:19:45 PM EST
    you LOVE polls.

    Parent
    Because (none / 0) (#56)
    by jbindc on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 03:31:00 PM EST
    This is one of those topics that is pretty complex and nuanced and to ask average people a question about a topic that economists can't agree on, is a silly poll that yields silly results.

    I don't "love" polls, but some are more in depth than others, and of course are a snapshot in time.

    I mean - here's the question:

    Should Congress Raise the Limit on
    How Much Government Can Borrow?

    It sounds bad - the average person can't have their credit limit (if they have one) upped, so why should the government?  Usually it's based on one's employment history and creditworthiness. But this is a simple question to a complex issue, worded in a way to make any sane person answer, "No - why they hell should it be raised!"

    The debt ceiling, it's based more on politics rather than economics.  Add to that, the fact that most people (including many around here) confuse "the debt" with "the deficit" and you can see why I think, all your snark aside, that most people who answered this question have no idea what they are talking about.

    Parent

    wow (5.00 / 0) (#62)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 03:44:04 PM EST
    all they really need to know is that it would be disastrous to default on the debt.

    thats not so complicated.  is it?


    Parent

    I don't believe (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by cal1942 on Tue Feb 08, 2011 at 01:50:04 AM EST
    that most people understand that.  

    If they did GOPers wouldn't dare make the threat.

    The GOP depends on ignorance to put and keep them in power.

    Parent

    The nation is not comprised of idiots (none / 0) (#102)
    by BackFromOhio on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 06:46:51 PM EST
    but rather many misinformed by the mainstream media noise about the dangers of the debt and the need to lower it at all costs.  

    Parent
    how to spot a meth lab (5.00 / 2) (#83)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 04:29:11 PM EST
    Students aren't worthless, (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 10:25:55 PM EST
     that was a cheap shot. Maybe this one is, but in general, students are wonderful, and have made my teaching experience a joy.

    But I won't tolerate fraud.

    Concerns grow (none / 0) (#1)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 01:33:46 PM EST
    With Egypt in revolt and the country's future uncertain, concern is growing over whether a new government in the Arab world's most militarily and industrially advanced country could accelerate an arms race in one of the world's most volatile regions.

    surely they must know that Israel is the only regional power allowed to have nukes.


    oops (none / 0) (#2)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 01:43:43 PM EST
    Drew Brees to run for office someday? (none / 0) (#3)
    by jbindc on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 01:45:42 PM EST
    Love Brees (none / 0) (#33)
    by lilburro on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 02:49:39 PM EST
    pretty sure he's a Dem.  Also I think he graduated with a poli sci degree.  He's always struck me as rather smart.

    Parent
    Where, Seattle ? (none / 0) (#63)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 03:45:08 PM EST
    Last I knew (none / 0) (#117)
    by cal1942 on Tue Feb 08, 2011 at 01:59:34 AM EST
    Brees was a Democrat.

    So many of the ex jocks in Congress are Republicans (former Senator Jim Bunning, Steve Largent, former Rep Tom Osbourne, etc.) it would be refreshing.

    Parent

    C & L has a really good question (none / 0) (#11)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 02:02:20 PM EST
    for congress woman Harmon:

    Wait...why did she wait until THREE WEEKS AFTER the new Congressional session started to leave? Why did she opt to run again at all? Wouldn't the more prudent thing be to make way for another candidate (like say, oh....Marcy Winograd or our very own John Amato)??? Now what is the state of California--teetering on the precipice of bankruptcy--supposed to do?

    Not to put too fine a point on it, but the additional expense of putting on a special election to replace Harman is one the state cannot really afford. Maybe Harman, who is among the wealthiest congresspeople, should be asked to cough up at least some of the money to cover expenses since it was her own short-sightedness that put us in this spot.



    she is actually (none / 0) (#12)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 02:03:14 PM EST
    the second wealthiest after Issa.

    Parent
    Obama on taxes with O'Reilly (none / 0) (#18)
    by ruffian on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 02:16:50 PM EST
    Commentary by Blue Texan at FDL with which I wholeheartedly concur.

    There is not some secret progressive Obama waiting till the coast is clear to raise taxes on the rich. Not gonna happen.


    it was a pretty (none / 0) (#22)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 02:20:51 PM EST
    interesting exchange

    Parent
    I also noted the (none / 0) (#24)
    by ruffian on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 02:25:47 PM EST
    comparison of the WSJ on the right with the NYT on the left. Was the NYT ever as liberal as the WSJ is conservative? Maybe, but not now.

    I thought Obama's answer (not quoted above) on O'Reilly's silly 'But people really hate you!' line of questioning was good. I do agree that what the righties really hate is a false image of who he is. Well, that and the racism.

    Parent

    ooops...quick writing there (none / 0) (#25)
    by ruffian on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 02:28:29 PM EST
    I mean that I believe racism is part of the right's hatred of Obnama - maybe that is what O'Reilly was trying to bait him into saying.

    Parent
    I thought Obama was good (none / 0) (#28)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 02:32:44 PM EST
    he was in complete control of the interview I thought.  OReilly looked like and idiot.  not that that is a hard thing to pull off or anything.

    I did find the exchange about moving to the center interesting.  not a surprise to some of us.

    Parent

    Yeah, Bill was his usual self (none / 0) (#30)
    by ruffian on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 02:37:03 PM EST
    The contrast between him and an intelligent, rational person is striking when you are used to seeing him talk mostly with others of his own ilk.

    Parent
    exactly (none / 0) (#31)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 02:40:18 PM EST
    I think it goes back to O playing the media, even the right wing media, like a fiddle.
    it was a very shrewd move to do that interview I think.

    Parent
    I don't believe (none / 0) (#118)
    by cal1942 on Tue Feb 08, 2011 at 02:02:31 AM EST
    the NYT was EVER as liberal as the WSJ (editorial page) is conservative.

    Parent
    I missed the interview (none / 0) (#35)
    by lilburro on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 02:54:39 PM EST
    but actually I think as far as the right-wing goes saying "I lowered taxes" isn't going to cut it.  They simply believe that he will raise taxes.  They think it's the logical result of government spending, esp. the health care bill.  So if he's putting out that line to soothe people it's just not going to work.  And it's true, taxes are not going to stay the same forever.  So Democrats might as well just address that head-on instead of living in the bizarro denial universe of the GOP.  That's what thinking seriously about our future should mean - not just "making cuts" and "finding savings."  I won't be holding my breath waiting for that to happen though.

    Parent
    David Dayen says it well (5.00 / 0) (#53)
    by Anne on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 03:25:04 PM EST
    in his post on Obama's speech to the Chamber of Commerce (bold is mine):

    The Administration seeks a truce between him and the business community, or at least a way to show himself as a business-friendly moderate to the 2012 general electorate. The President's advisors thinks they can't win next year without a business-friendly position, both to head off mountains of campaign spending and for political positioning. I think that completely misreads how political campaigns, particularly Presidential campaigns, get won in the modern age. The economy, for all intents and purposes, is the key determinant. And not the economy of corporate profits and stock markets, but the economy people feel and touch in their daily lives. And that's why this story should weigh far heavier on the minds of the Obama campaign team than any need to suck up to the titans of industry:

    The story he refers to cites higher 4th quarter earnings and sales, but also points out the lack of significant job gains 18 months after the recession was declared over:

    The lack of significant job gains 18 months after the recession was declared over isn't such a mystery when considering how companies were able to return to strong profit growth in a relatively short period. They mainly relied on aggressive job cuts, and with companies now pleased with their revitalized earnings and demand still choppy, they seem to be in no hurry to add to their payrolls.

    But, golly - won't it be a red-letter day when - if - Obama can get the Chamber to admit that it likes him, it really, really likes him?  And to hell with what that endeavor will mean for the American people.

    Parent

    I have a headache (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by Zorba on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 03:30:29 PM EST
    As far as I'm concerned, Obama has been doing everything he can to be business-friendly, at the expense of the average American worker.  This sucking up to the Chamber- it may not do him, personally, any good, but it does not bode well for the workers.  

    Parent
    Obama needs rich individuals and (none / 0) (#66)
    by MO Blue on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 03:45:52 PM EST
    corporate American if it is going to reach its stated goal of $1 billion in campaign funds for his 2012 election campaign. The Chamber and U.S. jobs:

       - In 2010, Naivstar CEO Daniel Ustian increased his total compensation by 27%, from $6.64 million in FY 2009 to $8.43 million in the year that ended October 31. The company has enjoyed healthy profits: in 2009, it earned $320 million, or $4.46 a share, and in 2010, it made $223 million, or $3.11 a share.

        - Navistar has slashed jobs at factories across the country. In Springfield, Ohio, Navistar laid off 250 workers from a truck assembly plant. At its plant in Arkansas, the company laid off 477 in 2009 after letting 300 workers go in 2008. Amid the layoffs and plant closures, Navistar, a major military contractor, opened a new factory in Mexico last year. link

    Similar stories for CEO's at AT&T, Deere and Co, and WellPoint.

    Parent

    from C & L (none / 0) (#77)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 04:15:35 PM EST
    Is the US Chamber of Commerce Committing Treason?

    Treason: "...[a]...citizen's actions to help a foreign government overthrow, make war against, or seriously injure the [parent nation]."

    Keep that definition in mind when you read Brian Beutler's report of the US Chamber of Commerce sending a message to Iran saying they oppose all US economic sanctions against them.



    Parent
    Constitution defines treason (none / 0) (#119)
    by cal1942 on Tue Feb 08, 2011 at 02:15:08 AM EST
    Article III Section 3

    Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.


    Parent
    Well, he sure (none / 0) (#80)
    by Zorba on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 04:24:12 PM EST
    as he!! isn't getting any from me, or many of the other non-rich individuals who gave to his last campaign.  Fool me once.....etc, etc, and so forth.

    Parent
    I dont think he was (none / 0) (#37)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 02:56:10 PM EST
    talking to the right wing.  he was talking to the center.  many of whom, unfortunately, watch fox.

    and he is doing much better with them.

    Parent

    yes... (none / 0) (#61)
    by lilburro on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 03:39:08 PM EST
    but for example, something like 90% of people did not know Obama had cut their taxes.  NYT:

    In a New York Times/CBS News Poll last month, fewer than one in 10 respondents knew that the Obama administration had lowered taxes for most Americans. Half of those polled said they thought that their taxes had stayed the same, a third thought that their taxes had gone up, and about a tenth said they did not know. As Thom Tillis, a Republican state representative, put it as the dinner wound down here, "This was the tax cut that fell in the woods -- nobody heard it."

    People get confused and Obama is portrayed as a "tax and spend" liberal so that's always what people will fall back on, unless he makes an effort to change his image or the conversation on taxes.

    Parent

    last week someone was wondering with me (none / 0) (#26)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 02:28:36 PM EST
    which Bobo would show up.  the sensible centrist or the right wing hack.
    looks like the sensible centrist made it:

    The biggest gap, by far, is political. The government has successfully prevented political parties from forming, with limited exceptions like the Muslim Brotherhood. Party-building is the country's screaming need and should be the top priority for outside assistance.

    Egypt is in much better shape than Iraq was under Saddam Hussein or Gaza was before Hamas took over. It's a 40 percent nation, mediocre in the world rankings, but not a basket case. Surveys showed that until about a week ago, Egyptians had extraordinarily low expectations for the future, among the lowest in the world.

    But now things seem to be changing. And while you wouldn't say that Egypt possesses the sort of human, social and institutional capital that will enable it to achieve miracles over the next few years, you'd have to say it has some decent underlying structures. And, if led wisely, it has a reasonable shot at joining the normal, democratic world.



    Egypt - where do we go from here? (none / 0) (#34)
    by jbindc on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 02:49:42 PM EST
    Some interesting essays and thoughts by a couple of experts.

    Daniel Kurtzer, former U.S. ambassador to Egypt and Israel

    If the entire Egyptian system collapses, it would likely pave the way for the Muslim Brotherhood to rise to prominence and transform the country to an Islamist state. Some have argued that this would not be so terrible -- that the Brotherhood is a relatively benign Islamist movement that is focused on social issues and religious piety. Nothing could be further from the truth. Since its founding in 1928, the Brotherhood has had the single goal of establishing an Islamist state and society in Egypt and throughout the Muslim world. It has been flexible tactically, but that should not be confused with the idea that the Brotherhood has abandoned its ultimate goal.  

    Fortunately, this is an unlikely scenario. The Egyptian army, which is still the ultimate arbiter of power in Egypt, is largely committed to ideals of the 1952 revolution, which would not support a totally Islamist state. Having spent the years since the 1981 assassination of Anwar Sadat -- who was killed by Muslim extremists from inside the army -- rooting out extremists from its ranks, the military would likely counter the installment of a Muslim Brotherhood regime.

    A more likely -- and desirable -- scenario is a mildly reformist government that operates within somewhat flexible parameters established by the military. But the military needs to make concessions if it is to maintain its power and do so peacefully. The current unrest in Egypt should teach the military that business as usual will not work. It will need to allow the next government to campaign against corruption, and in favor of expanded freedoms, increased political participation, and a more transparent political system. To be sure, the military will ensure that any liberalization proceeds cautiously so that events do not spiral out of control. But that doesn't mean it has to oppose these reforms.

    And Thomas Pickering, former Ambassador to the United Nations, Russia, India, Israel, and Jordan

    In the immediate term, the biggest question is who will lead in Egypt, and here, there are several possibilities: the Army, the Muslim Brotherhood, and the young people demonstrating together with the many organized and disorganized opposition parties who are now out on the streets. None of these possible leaders can move forward without taking into account the others; none can succeed on its own. For the United States, there is always an identification of the person with the politics, and we have yet to see any individuals emerge who could give us confidence about the future political order. The ideal for now would look something like a transitional authority, in which Mubarak would go and leave the government in the hands of someone or something. Vice President Omar Suleiman is the most frequently mentioned someone here. He is not known as a reformer and is still closely associated in the minds of the public with Mubarak and the intelligence establishment in Egypt.

    The second priority after leadership is to think about firm and forthright political change -- in the electoral process and in Egypt's constitution. As progress moves forward, the government will need to deal with the long-term grievances of those in the streets. There is a danger that the Muslim Brotherhood, presenting itself as benign force, might move into a position of power, and over time, adopt something of a more Islamic position. But I don't think that needs to be a barrier to what we're talking about, given the changes that are already underway. Egypt has a large and strong middle class as well as a lot of young people who are secular and who are tied together by technology. That can make a serious difference in the outcome.

    The impact of all this on American foreign policy will be striking. We have moved away from the notion that the dictatorships out there that are our friends are real moderates, seriously seeking to implement change. Instead, change is now coming up from the inside -- something we have long wished for. And we must support it. That is the challenge, and our policy is moving in that direction in my own view. We need to be careful, however; we tend to always assume the mantle that our role is to teleguide these changes. And yet now in Egypt, we are in a situation in which we have lost considerable influence and authority. We should think foremost about the first principle of medicine, and now diplomacy: First, do no harm.

    Plus more - too many to quote here

    first line of first comment (5.00 / 0) (#36)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 02:54:53 PM EST
    Who are we to determine where the Egyptian people go from here? I am tired of the hypocritical U.S. statements

    what he said

    Parent

    Yes, but (none / 0) (#40)
    by jbindc on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 03:06:12 PM EST
    Youhave to take his statement (plus the other 6) in their entirety.

    Otherwise you're just like FOX or MSNBC using selective quotes.

    Parent

    I judge (5.00 / 0) (#44)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 03:07:42 PM EST
    enough band width has been used for that particular purpose.

    they are there for anyone to read who is interested.

    Parent

    Yes (2.00 / 1) (#57)
    by jbindc on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 03:33:16 PM EST
    And it's been shown that those who watch or listen to only one or two sources do love the talking points.

    Parent
    I guess you would know (2.00 / 1) (#65)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 03:45:36 PM EST
    better than me

    Parent
    "Egypt - Where Do We Go From Here?" (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by KeysDan on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 03:58:56 PM EST
    is the question yet to be answered.  No shortage of good  suggestions and analysis by experts and others, and sometimes the others have the edge.   After faltering out of the gate (Egypt is stable, Mubarak is not a dictator) the Administration seemed to be getting a grip, starting with the "transition needs to begin, now."

    Frank Wisner's "private" comments (to which Gibbs directed us to the, wink, wink, State Department) brought into question his judgment and that of his dispatcher(s).  The latest seems to be that Hosni Mubarak needs to stay on for a while, to help with the transition and satisfy the (flawed) constitution.

    The recently minted vice president, Omar Suleiman, may have been an acceptable, albeit an unenthusiastic start for transition (while moving up the election dates a few months in a show of good intentions), provided Mubarak stepped down immediately.

    To state that Mubarak should stay even a little longer endangers the changes needed and the protesters themselves. . And, it does not bode well for our and the region's long term interests.  It seems as if there is an abundant amount of expert advice at the Administration's beckon call, what they need is some additional common sense and good judgment--and then stick with it and act on it.

    Parent

    The Salahis stike again (none / 0) (#54)
    by magster on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 03:30:27 PM EST
    posing with bigwigs in the owner's box at the SuperBowl. LOL

    Layoffs are getting rarers (none / 0) (#58)
    by jbindc on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 03:35:09 PM EST
    If you have a job, you are less likely to lose it than in any time in the last 14 years.

    However, if you are unemployed - well, it $ucks to be you.

    I Just Have to Let You Folks Know... (none / 0) (#69)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 03:49:38 PM EST
    ... the Green Bay Packers are now officially the best to team ever play the frozen tundra or Jerry Jones funky grass.
    - Cheese Head Extraordinaire

    Jim Geraghty. (none / 0) (#74)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 04:02:45 PM EST
    Rep. Heath Schuler, D-N.C. is one of the 20 Blue Dog Democats who plan to meet with businessman Donald Trump today in New York City. The meeting with Trump, who has expressed interest in running for president in 2012, is set to last an hour. Sources say they will talk about the economy and ideas Trump has for improving it.


    btw (none / 0) (#75)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 04:03:54 PM EST
    saw this Schuler guy this morning on Joe.  he is a steaming pile.

    Parent
    e.g. (none / 0) (#76)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 04:06:15 PM EST
    With the thumping they took (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by sj on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 04:59:58 PM EST
    at the last elections, you think they would be cozying up to leadership.  If, however, you see it as part of the crackpot rightwing 45 year effort to make themselves relevant it all makes sense.  

    They've been so successful at inserting themselves throughout the left/right spectrum that it's scary.  By not giving an inch, people who in saner times be Republican are are registered as Dems.  

    It's quite brilliant, actually.  Will it take 45 years to swing back the other way?

    Parent

    They can go eff themselves (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by andgarden on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 05:01:23 PM EST
    They are in no position to demand anything from anyone right now. And if the Democrats somehow win the House back in 2012, they will be back with their tails between their legs.

    I dare them to vote for the orange jerk for Speaker.

    Parent

    Won't happen (none / 0) (#133)
    by jbindc on Tue Feb 08, 2011 at 10:06:32 AM EST
    They'll be part of the new Republican majority.

    Since the midterm election, 24 state senators and representatives have made the switch in Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia and Texas.

    In some cases, the ramifications have been profound: In Louisiana, defecting Democrats gave Republicans a majority in the state House for the first time since Reconstruction; in Alabama, they delivered the GOP a House supermajority. Republicans have 65 votes to the Democrats' 39, enough to pass constitutional amendments over Democratic opposition.

    The trend continued through late January -- when nine officials in Lamar County in northeastern Texas left the Democratic Party -- and into last week, when Louisiana Atty. Gen. James D. "Buddy" Caldwell switched parties, leaving the GOP in control of every major state office in Baton Rouge.

    Democrats may remain competitive in some parts of the South in 2012. The Democratic Party's announcement last week that it will hold its national convention in Charlotte, N.C., may help President Obama's chances in what has become a Southern swing state -- and one that he narrowly won in 2008.

    But peering farther South, he will face a sea of red that is increasingly deep: Republicans hold every Southern governor's mansion except in North Carolina and Arkansas, and control most of the state legislative chambers.

    Merle Black, a political science professor at Emory University in Atlanta, said the party-switching -- in addition to big Republican legislative gains in the South in the November election -- reflect an ongoing "top-down realignment" of the region's white voters from old-school conservative Democrat to Republican.

    Hate to break it to you, but most people in this country are in the middle. And with the population moving south and west, this is not an issue that can be explained away by an election or two, but is a fundamental swing. I'm sure, of course it's just because every single one of these people is dumb and racist Southern hicks. <snark>

    Parent

    I don't follow your point (none / 0) (#138)
    by CST on Tue Feb 08, 2011 at 10:32:10 AM EST
    Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia and Texas are all south, not really west.  Plus Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama are all growing at much lower rates than the rest of the country (essentially, they are shrinking in comparison).

    Population shifts are in no way related to these states becomming more conservative.

    Whether people are "dumb and racist Southern hicks" is not something I feel qualified to answer.  But it is astonishing to me that year after year, the states with an overwhelming number of Republicans have the worst education in the country.  And no one ever seems to do the math.

    And "the middle" is a completely meaningless term.  Middle of what?  People have individual views on individual issues.  Some may be conservative, some liberal, but that doesn't mean they align with one another on those issues just because they aren't strictly one or the other.  I think most people just don't like labels, so it's easier to say "the middle" because it's non-committal.  That doesn't mean there's a consensus view there though.

    Parent

    CST, the flaw in your education logic (none / 0) (#141)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Feb 08, 2011 at 10:40:54 AM EST
    is that these states, when they had Democratic supermajorities, had the worst education in the country.

    It's a values issue, except the values are not followed inside the beltway. Lower taxes? not really a big deal for people who pay low taxes. Power int he hands of those perceived as elitist or corrupt? That's the issue.

    We're not talking about actual corruption or elitism, yust the perception.

    however, many in the south and southwest have been condescended to by DC, the democratic "chattering class," and even the 'bitterness, guns and God" comment. That one still resonates.

    Yes, other problems exist...

    Parent

    fair enough (5.00 / 1) (#144)
    by CST on Tue Feb 08, 2011 at 11:42:50 AM EST
    I guess what I really meant was liberal politics, although in fairness I don't really know much about the internal politics of southern states.

    A lot of it probably has to do with demographics, more rural areas make it harder to manage.

    I know the perception is there of the "elitist liberal northeasterners".  The frustrating part of that is that I think it stems from a deep mis-understanding of the northeast.

    The Democrats in the north tend to come from the same demographics as the Democrats in the south.  Minorities, urbanites, union workers, etc...

    It reminds me of a conversation I had here the other day when I talked about the difference between financial and political power in Boston.  Historically, the "brahmins" that everyone thinks about in terms of old-money elitist power are for the most part republican (from wiki - "Politically they were successively Federalists, Whigs, and Republicans.").  I feel like this is who people have in mind when they think of "elitist northeasterners".  But the Democratic political majorities historicaly came from the irish-catholic working-class.

    Parent

    the last to mention it, sorry.

    Time to get my banjo and my home made pop-skull whiskey, I suppose.

    Parent

    I'm not sure where I said (none / 0) (#143)
    by jbindc on Tue Feb 08, 2011 at 11:15:00 AM EST
    They were becoming more conservative - I said Dems are flipping like hotcakes to become Republicans - meaning more Republicans will be in the "political stable" and which is why I said this will be a larger shift in our very political fabric than one or two elections.

    You chose three states in the south that were hurt badly by something called "Hurricane Katrina", so I think a little perspective is in order here. (BTW - Texas is south AND southwest, in cultural and demographic terms).  Louisiana is losing a seat, but most of that is attributed to  the hurricane and subsequent diaspora Katrina" that happened since the last census.  The fact that Dems who turned Republican which in turn, flipped their Legislature for the first time since Reconstruction, I think, is the much bigger point.  Alabama's population increased by 300,000 (7.5%), which I don't think is any small gain, even if it is a bit smaller than between 1990 and 2000.  Mississippi, another hurricane hit state fared pretty well and didn't lose a seat (and in fact, some of their hardest hit communities managed to see double digit population growth).

    The nation as a whole suffered a very low growth rate (9.7%).

    And with the west and south gaining the most in population and redistricting, my point is still valid - flips by Dems (of which there have been many) will only continue to hurt the party as a whole.  Those on the very left may say "good riddance" to Blue Dogs or Centrist Dems, but in the end, all it does it hurt the Dems, because whether or not the lefty Dems like them, they need the centrists.

    Parent

    And why would they? (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by Zorba on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 05:03:47 PM EST
    They're Democrats in name only.  And I wish people would stop referring to them as "centrist."  They're not.  The money quote from your linked article is:
    In perhaps the ultimate rebuke to the Democratic leader, Shuler said Blue Dog Democrats often have more in common ideologically with former President Ronald Reagan than with Pelosi. What would have been Reagan's 100th birthday prompted remembrances over the weekend.


    Parent
    I'm all broke up :) (none / 0) (#103)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 07:22:48 PM EST
    geezuz (none / 0) (#120)
    by cal1942 on Tue Feb 08, 2011 at 02:32:56 AM EST
    just what we need.  

    We are really effed up.

    Parent

    The Rendells are breaking up (none / 0) (#93)
    by andgarden on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 04:56:28 PM EST
    I wish them both the best. Midge, of course, continues to serve.

    I had (none / 0) (#99)
    by CST on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 05:52:25 PM EST
    vietnamese-style roasted quail (Chim Cut) for the first time yesterday.

    It's meat, for people who want dessert.  Really delicious, savory dessert.

    Olbermann to join Current TV (none / 0) (#104)
    by Politalkix on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 08:46:31 PM EST
    Even fewer people can watch him now (none / 0) (#134)
    by jbindc on Tue Feb 08, 2011 at 10:07:13 AM EST
    As a student (for now) (none / 0) (#107)
    by andgarden on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 09:56:45 PM EST
    this hits close to home. I am dealing with a similar situation in the context of a student run journal. Not much fun.

    Andgarden, correct is correct. (none / 0) (#108)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 10:19:00 PM EST
    I'd rather lose this position, even at my age, than lose my integrity.

    I hope your issue resolves itself amicably. Sometimes enough guidance can lead one to the 'error of their ways.'

     I did my best. It's gone beyond me with the reply, and if I don't get backing, I don't need to be teaching here, anyway.

    Cutting grass is an honorable profession.

    Parent

    I have noticed (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by andgarden on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 10:23:50 PM EST
    that people who plagiarize almost dare you to try and hold them accountable. Nobody wants to be the one to put his/her foot down.

    Parent
    Not true, from many teachers I know (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by Towanda on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 11:34:21 PM EST
    but, sorry to say it on this blog, they tell me that administrators back down from fear of parents or older students with lawyers who can tie up immense amounts of time, and time is money, and other costs of such cases have a chilling effect.

    And so teachers (at all levels) who push hard on plagiarism cases are the ones seen as the troublemakers.  And yes, they get fired for something or other then, or their lives are just made so miserable that they leave.  And sometimes they do not just leave a school; they leave the profession.

    Teachers seem to have very little power these days.  Of course, that's the way that a lot of people want it, because the standard line these days is that teachers are too dumb to teach.

    Parent

    Not sure what the "not true" is for (none / 0) (#113)
    by andgarden on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 11:41:46 PM EST
    You actually seem to be agreeing with me.

    Parent
    Really? I don't agree with you at all. (none / 0) (#135)
    by Towanda on Tue Feb 08, 2011 at 10:07:27 AM EST
    Your term was absolutist:  "Nobody."

    I clearly don't agree that nobody is trying.

    Qualifiers are useful.  Few things in life are absolutes.

    Parent

    I didn't intend (none / 0) (#145)
    by andgarden on Tue Feb 08, 2011 at 02:01:38 PM EST
    an absolutist meaning of "nobody."

    Parent
    Are you sure you will be fired? (none / 0) (#111)
    by shoephone on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 10:44:05 PM EST
    If your case for plagiarism is as strong as it sounds, why won't your department heads investigate/back you up on it? Is the student the daughter of a wealthy alum?

    The Admin doesn't like 'troublemakers,' (none / 0) (#124)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Feb 08, 2011 at 08:05:44 AM EST
    and to the last part of your question, "yes."

    Parent
    I attended a private university (none / 0) (#128)
    by Harry Saxon on Tue Feb 08, 2011 at 08:40:29 AM EST
    and one day in my Genetics class, the teacher talked about the fact that he had caught some people cheating in their efforts to have their last test regraded, and he made it very clear what the consequences would be if said cheaters didn't meet with him after the class was over for the day.

    He had about twice as many people show up as he had discovered cheating with their regrades, and they all had to take a F in the class and have it appear on their academic record.

    That's how plagiarism should be treated, IMHO.

    Parent

    I'm a firm believer in (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Feb 08, 2011 at 09:08:33 AM EST
    transcripts being stamped, "academic dishonesty" or "academic fraud."  that was an official policy at a private university in which I taught. Too bad the state schools paid better and had better benefits.

    It was a wonderful place for professors, and students, for the most part, didn't cheat because of the consequences.

    Parent

    Very sorry for your predicament (none / 0) (#146)
    by shoephone on Wed Feb 09, 2011 at 01:34:20 AM EST
    But I hope your comment below means you will at least be staying around to annoy them all.

    Parent
    Shoephone, I'll have to be escorted (none / 0) (#147)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Feb 09, 2011 at 11:41:31 AM EST
    off of campus, I won't go gently into that good night... and then my union takes over. Too bad it's fairly toothless in a matter such as this.

    Parent
    Guess who loved the half-time show (none / 0) (#114)
    by oculus on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 11:53:23 PM EST
    yesterday?  Almost 13-yr. old tutoree. Re muffed national anthem, he sd. he didn't notice, as he doesn't know the words either.  So there.

    I hear many similar stories from (none / 0) (#125)
    by ruffian on Tue Feb 08, 2011 at 08:16:10 AM EST
    my brother who is a college professor. It always amazes me. He doesn't back down either, and it did make his life at one place he taught a living hell until he left by mutual agreement. He is tenured elsewhere now and I think he gets more support from the administration. The other place was a private school with heavy reliance on donors and football players.

    not Notre Dame, but I shouldn't say who it was (none / 0) (#126)
    by ruffian on Tue Feb 08, 2011 at 08:17:56 AM EST
    Sorry to hear... (none / 0) (#127)
    by kdog on Tue Feb 08, 2011 at 08:22:13 AM EST
    of your quandry Jeff...I have a saying, "Do what is right and come what may."  

    And I have another..."I came here looking for a job, and I'll leave here looking for a job."

    As for integrity...we stopped valuing it as a society.  Shady, sneaky, shortcuts, and on the sly is what we value and what we reward.  And thats what we taught our children, perhaps unintentionally.

    Thanks, kdog, I'm just a (none / 0) (#130)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Feb 08, 2011 at 09:14:55 AM EST
    19th Century man caught in the 21st.

    Funny you should say, ..."I came here looking for a job, and I'll leave here looking for a job." that's exactly what I told my department head today.

    It may amount to something less, but with talks of reducing employees, etc., any little thing can hurt... frowning at the wrong time, breaking wind in a meeting... it's kind of silly here.

    But more motivation to get to Colombia for those letters of Marque and Reprisal...

    Parent

    A man of your many talents... (none / 0) (#132)
    by kdog on Tue Feb 08, 2011 at 09:53:41 AM EST
    will land on his feet no matter what.

    And I hear ya...analog cats in a digital age.  Enough to make a man say "F*ck It".  

    The inner desire to hold your head high in the mirror...a blessing and a curse my good man, blessing and a curse.  It may be tempting to mail it in on integrity, give out undeserved A's, and cash them paychecks...but somebody must carry the flame.

    Parent

    N.B. for the pirate crew, (none / 0) (#137)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Feb 08, 2011 at 10:23:55 AM EST
    I watched "Pirates of the Caribbean at the worlds end" last night.

    I like the clothing styles, especially Captain Barbossa's hat!

    Parent

    Casey gets the fancy hat... (5.00 / 2) (#139)
    by kdog on Tue Feb 08, 2011 at 10:32:20 AM EST
    we get doo rags:)

    Parent
    That works, too, I suppose (none / 0) (#140)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Feb 08, 2011 at 10:34:16 AM EST
    China Drought. (none / 0) (#131)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Feb 08, 2011 at 09:27:56 AM EST
    Thirty seven percent of wheat crop affected. I didn't know until this article that China had supassed Canada as the world's largest wheat grower.

    Surge of Illegal Immigrants flood Texas (none / 0) (#136)
    by jbindc on Tue Feb 08, 2011 at 10:10:40 AM EST
    But they aren't who you'd expect and officials are puzzled.

    Thousands of immigrants from India have crossed into the United States illegally at the southern tip of Texas in the last year, part of a mysterious and rapidly growing human-smuggling pipeline that is backing up court dockets, filling detention centers and triggering investigations.

    The immigrants, mostly young men from poor villages, say they are fleeing religious and political persecution. More than 1,600 Indians have been caught since the influx began here early last year, while an undetermined number, perhaps thousands, are believed to have sneaked through undetected, according to U.S. border authorities.

    SNIP

    But analysts and human rights monitors say political conditions in India don't explain the migration. There is no evidence of the kind of persecution that would prompt a mass exodus, they say, and Sikhs haven't been targets since the 1980s. The prime minister of India, Manmohan Singh, is a Sikh.

    "There is no reason to believe these claims have any truth to them," said Sumit Ganguly, a political science professor and director of the India Studies Program at Indiana University.

    Some authorities think the immigrants are simply seeking economic opportunities and are willing to pay $12,000 to $20,000 to groups that smuggle them to staging grounds in northern Mexico. Kibble said smugglers may have shifted to the Southwest after ICE dismantled visa fraud rings that brought Indians to the Northeast.