A "Fifth Column" Rises In Iowa

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Other Politics
Posted on Thu Dec 22, 2011 at 10:00:00 AM EST
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Dorothy Rabinowitz of the WSJ Editorial Board writes of Ron Paul:

Some in Iowa are reportedly now taking a look at Dr. Paul, now risen high in the polls there. [. . .] It seemed improbable that the best-known of American propagandists for our enemies could be near the top of the pack in the Iowa contest, but there it is. An interesting status for a candidate of Dr. Paul's persuasion to have achieved, and he'll achieve even more if Iowans choose to give him a victory.

(Emphasis supplied.) Of course, this "Fifth Column" is not confined to Iowa. From his coastal enclave in Washington, DC, Andrew Sullivan writes:

[Paul] is the "Change You Can Believe In" on the right[.]

Ahhh, the Decadent in their coastal enclaves, mounting a "Fifth Column."

Speaking for me only

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A "Fifth Column" Rises In Iowa | 28 comments (28 topical)

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LOL LOL LOL (5.00 / 1) (#3)
by Ga6thDem on Thu Dec 22, 2011 at 10:37:16 AM EST

If they keep this up, I might have to go vote in the GA GOP primary for Paul.

If my state had open primaries... (none / 0) (#5)
by kdog on Thu Dec 22, 2011 at 11:00:21 AM EST

I would have done so in '08 and again next year.

Wouldn't it be rich if by some miracle he won the nom and the GOP candidate was the anti-war candidate in 2012? Depending on who the third-party also-rans might end up being I might have to vote for the crazy s.o.b. Gary Johnson much preferred though if he gets the Libertarian Party nom and gets on the ballot.


Gary Johnson is out (none / 0) (#11)
by jbindc on Thu Dec 22, 2011 at 12:56:12 PM EST

: Not out.... (none / 0) (#15)
by kdog on Thu Dec 22, 2011 at 01:22:06 PM EST

just wised up and ditched the GOP. He's shooting for the Libertarian Party nom and a third-party run.

Well... (none / 0) (#26)
by Edger on Fri Dec 23, 2011 at 09:08:38 AM EST

it would save all the Obamabots from having to pretend they are anti-war again. ;-)


Shirley she can't be serious.... (none / 0) (#1)
by kdog on Thu Dec 22, 2011 at 09:22:37 AM EST

She is serious, and her name is Dorothy:)

Propagandist for our enemies...too rich.

I've never seen Paul get so much mainstream press...me thinks he's got the warmongering empire lovin' neocons a wee bit nervous.

Forget the hundred selfish pseudo-libertarian (none / 0) (#2)
by Farmboy on Thu Dec 22, 2011 at 09:46:23 AM EST

things Ron Paul has said. Forget his statements about people of color, forget the claims that pretty much the entire federal gov't is unconstitutional. With one statement he crossed a line that right wing pundits can't forgive.

He suggested cutting off aid to Israel.

Game over.

Iowa and Israel (none / 0) (#4)
by Gisleson on Thu Dec 22, 2011 at 10:42:44 AM EST

This is the kind of thing political reporters won't touch with a ten-foot pole, but the biggest opposition to Ron Paul is from the Neocon/Jewish wing of the Republican party. In state after state and on blog after blog, the right equates support for Israel with being a good American.

Here's why that meme is damaged in Iowa: Postville. The Rubashkin clan established a sweat shop meat packing plant using undocumented Guatemalans for labor. This was a huge scandal in Iowa, and for most Iowa conservatives, it was their first serious look at a Jewish business operation.

While what they saw was sadly typical of a shoddy meat packing operation, it was a terrible introduction to Kosher butchering and Jewish business practices in general. This is the background the Israel uber alles crowd is now dealing with in Iowa, and it's part of the reason why the usual slime attacks on Ron Paul aren't gaining traction.

I live in Minnesota now, and the anti-Semitism up here is much worse than anything I ever was exposed to growing up in Iowa (not far from Postville). But the evangelicals are a new force in Iowa politics and I think the Postville scandal altered their perception of Israel more than the national Republican leadership understands.

Ron Paul may well win Iowa, but as the joke now goes, if he does, that will just mean that the Iowa Caucuses will have to go. And, if Paul wins, don't expect any serious discussion of Israel to come up on the Sunday morning talk shows.

Rubashkin plant & Israel (5.00 / 1) (#8)
by The Addams Family on Thu Dec 22, 2011 at 11:49:08 AM EST

is the Rubashkin plant a foreign (Israeli) operation?

if not, clan you clarify what you mean by "a Jewish business operation" & "Jewish business practices in general" (as opposed to Kosher butchering practices)?


Because the Rubashkins (none / 0) (#13)
by Gisleson on Thu Dec 22, 2011 at 01:09:02 PM EST

brought a closed culture with them to Postville (literally they refused to interact with local residents and kept themselves totally apart from the community), and all the locals knew was that they were running a Kosher meat processing plant. The people in charge were all Jewish.

Now think about how that would impact a small Iowa community whose idea of diversity was Catholics and Lutherans living together (but not necessarily intermarrying). I appreciate that my comment sounded awkward, but Orthodox Judaism is foreign to most Iowans, and their big introduction to it was a massive scam in which the Rubashkins ran a "dirty" meat processing plant and used undocumented workers for labor. And this scandal was literally the only "Jewish" news originating out of Iowa ever.

Having the Rubashkins as the highest profile Jews in Iowa did a lot to exacerbate the mostly long dormant anti-Semitism in my home state. It would be as if no Iowans had ever moved to New York City and then Steve King and Michele Bachmann ditched their spouses and set up housekeeping in Greenwich Village. I think New Yorkers might get a very distorted notion of what Iowans are about.

Does this have anything to do with Israel? No, but yes, it does. Before the Rubashkins, Israelis was, for Iowans, people from the Bible. Thanks to the Rubashkins, conservative Iowans now think about a family of Jewish kosher scamsters when they think of Israel.

Ironically, the Professor Bloom who recently upset Iowans with his very critical essay about them is the same Bloom who wrote the book about Postville and the Rubashkins.

Anyhow, I hope that answers your question. No, the Rubashkins have nothing to do with Israel, but yes, when Iowans think of Israel they now think about Postville and I have to suspect that's led a lot of Iowa conservatives to be more skeptical about Israel, and therefore more open to Ron Paul.


to say that the scandal (none / 0) (#16)
by The Addams Family on Thu Dec 22, 2011 at 02:01:46 PM EST

"was literally the only 'Jewish' news originating out of Iowa ever" is to say that the scandal was less about meat packing & the use of undocumented workers than it was about the Jews running the plant

by the terms of your analogy, those New Yorkers would have to see King & Bachmann primarily as Iowans, people who "keep to themselves" (as the old stereotype has it regarding Jews forced into European ghettoes), & there would also have to be a latent anti-Iowanism ready to be activated by the mere presence of these two Iowans, a set of prejudices promoted & perpetuated by fraudulent tracts like Protocols of the Elders of Iowa - but when i think of Steve King & Michele Bachmann, i do not think of them primarily as Iowans, nor am i aware of any undercurrents of anti-Iowanism in Greenwich Village

No, the Rubashkins have nothing to do with Israel, but yes, when Iowans think of Israel they now think about Postville and I have to suspect that's led a lot of Iowa conservatives to be more skeptical about Israel, and therefore more open to Ron Paul.

this is pure speculation, & rather convoluted at that - clearly you are speaking for yourself, but i don't see why you should also claim to be speaking for Iowans in general or for Iowa conservatives in particular


One of you is talking about facts (none / 0) (#17)
by Towanda on Thu Dec 22, 2011 at 02:07:54 PM EST

and one of you is talking about perceptions.

Guess which of those is more persuasive in politics?


well, one of us (none / 0) (#18)
by The Addams Family on Thu Dec 22, 2011 at 02:15:16 PM EST

is attributing his/her perceptions to others, & we are both talking about that in our different ways

what do you have to say about the "facts" of this case, such as they may be?

& i'm sure i can't guess whether you find facts or perceptions more persuasive in politics - care to answer your own question?


The perceptions I'm sharing (none / 0) (#19)
by Gisleson on Thu Dec 22, 2011 at 02:54:09 PM EST

stem from being from the same part of Iowa as Postville, and hearing from relatives and friends about this scandal as it mushroomed. It was covered somewhat by the NYTimes, but it was heavily covered in Iowa and it was a Jewish scandal in the sense that a scandal involving Jimmy Swaggart is an evangelical scandal.

I appreciate that my remarks touch on things that make many people uncomfortable. I'm just trying to give some background to readers who aren't from the upper Midwest. I live in Minnesota now, but I'm only a three-hour drive from Postville. What happened there is a issue, and one that resonated deeply with many Iowans.

In my readings on Ron Paul, it seems to me that the anti-Israel thing is the biggest club his opponents have to use against him. What I am saying is that that club is less effective in Iowa than it is in other places. Fwiw, I lived in Iowa for 35 years and am a former officer of the Polk County Democratic Party (Des Moines), but I grew up on a rural Republican family farm. I also just attended my 40th class reunion, and I feel quite comfortable in saying I do have a clue what Iowans think about these things. (That's one of the reasons I moved to Minnesota!)


: ok (none / 0) (#21)
by The Addams Family on Thu Dec 22, 2011 at 03:04:57 PM EST

kdog (comment #20) links to a 2008 post from Jeralyn on the truly horrifying conditions at the plant
as you know, my comment on your original post was a reaction to your having characterized those conditions as "Jewish business practices," a phrase which you originally used without reference to the expressed views of your former friends & neighbors in Iowa, & which you went on to justify by way of a false analogy in another comment
but you have acknowledged that your original comment was "awkward," & i am content to let that be the last word

I find facts more persuasive, personally (none / 0) (#28)
by Towanda on Tue Dec 27, 2011 at 02:41:37 PM EST

but I know that, sadly, that is not representative of how too many voters think, if they think.


I see a lot of Paul supporters in Ames (none / 0) (#6)
by Farmboy on Thu Dec 22, 2011 at 11:32:50 AM EST

which doesn't surprise me because in my experience you find more folks who think libertarian ideas are cool on college campuses than out in the "real world." Of course, most of these self-identified college libertarians can't describe what libertarianism is, but that's part of the charm of being that age.

Unlike the right wing, I don't think the no aid to Israel issue bothers the 20-somethings, and they don't hang with the older anti-Semite crowd.


: Pretty much (none / 0) (#9)
by Ga6thDem on Thu Dec 22, 2011 at 11:50:44 AM EST

the same thing here. The older Paul supporters tend to be the anti-Semites. The younger Paul supporters are against aid to Israel like they're against aid to a lot of other countries.

The question is, which Israel? (none / 0) (#7)
by jondee on Thu Dec 22, 2011 at 11:34:10 AM EST

the one that believes in prophecies of a "Greater Israel", (or cynically knows that in order to maintain power, it has to pet and network with those that do), or the Israel that believes in the possibility of more enlightened, sustainable approaches to peace in the region.


: Enlightned Israel is dead. (none / 0) (#24)
by redwolf on Fri Dec 23, 2011 at 03:51:27 AM EST

Demographics is going towards the hard core religious in Israel. They're simply out breeding everyone else. With in a generation the enlightened demographic will be a footnote in history.

While I have tried to understand your (none / 0) (#10)
by KeysDan on Thu Dec 22, 2011 at 12:36:27 PM EST

comment, I find it confusing and in need of clarification. Since I am not familiar with the meat packing plant cited, I will stipulate that it is, Indeed, shoddy as you say. However, the connection to business practices, as unsavory as they may be, by ownership that is in Jewish hands and your claim of eroding support for Israel by some Iowans is not made.

Unless, you are saying that Republican primary voters are stereotyping and extrapolating a local situation to the support for the state of Israel. Or, just plain old, ugly and unhinged anti-semitism. My understanding of the special support for Israel by Fundamentalist/Evangelicals relates to biblical interpretations known as dispensationalism, wherein the Holy Land is ground zero for events surrounding End Times (the second coming) and the restoration of the Jews. The present Jews being under the power of Satan and the glory of Israel being the future.


I hope my clarification above (none / 0) (#14)
by Gisleson on Thu Dec 22, 2011 at 01:17:03 PM EST

helped.

When I was young, I was seated at a table at a science fiction convention with a mix of people.
The guy next to me introduced himself as something Shapiro. I looked at him innocently and actually said, "Shapiro? What kind of name is that?"

I grew up in an area so free of Jews that even though I'd read some Philip Roth novels, I didn't recognize Shapiro as a Jewish name. Iowans really don't know much about Jewish culture, and the Rubashkins were a rude introduction to the concept of keeping kosher, a term many Iowans now associate with dirty meat.

The relationship between Israel and evangelicals is one that survives because neither side knows the other side very well. As that changes, that relationship will change as well. The important thing is that the usual Ron Paul bashing won't sell as well in Iowa because of what happened in Postville.


: Thank you for clarifying and (none / 0) (#22)
by KeysDan on Thu Dec 22, 2011 at 03:36:37 PM EST

explaining your point.

Our fine hostess... (none / 0) (#20)
by kdog on Thu Dec 22, 2011 at 02:54:13 PM EST

posted a piece on the immigration raid at the plant and the deplorable working conditions.

Linkage


Gandhi must be laughing his arse off (none / 0) (#12)
by SeeEmDee on Thu Dec 22, 2011 at 01:03:56 PM EST

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." I guess Paul is at Stage 3, now.

Like him or not, Paul is rattling the Establishment Republican cages, big time, for them to try to pull this. They have no idea of what awaits them if this keeps up. Google "AIPAC FBI" for a hint. A lot of people should be rotting in prison for the rest of their lives for the caught-red-handed treason they committed against this country.

De facto agents of foreign governments, foreign governments that can only live in glass houses paid for by US taxpayers, and then send their spies to commit espionage against their host shouldn't be pitching rocks, right about now. Real bad timing. A lot of very recent dirt could be kicked up very easily...and that dirt is truly explosive. But it won't be Paul that gets 'hoist' by this 'petard'...

The welfare state's not going anywhere. (none / 0) (#23)
by redwolf on Fri Dec 23, 2011 at 03:47:53 AM EST

Regan tried to end it and failed. Ron Paul is even less likely to succeed. Ron Paul has a decent chance ending the security state though. If you all aren't going to run a better DEM candidate than Obama by all means vote for Ron Paul in the primaries.

: If what appears to be demonstrated (5.00 / 1) (#27)
by christinep on Sat Dec 24, 2011 at 12:15:17 PM EST

Attitudes of racism as well as anti-gay statements doesn't concern a person, then it might make some sense to focus on the no-aid-to-anybody (except son Rand) routine. In that regard, I'm guessing that isolationist Paul opposes the UN & all forms of US aid for natural disaster effects in the world as well. Who knows...maybe some think that is tres cool.
Oh, but then. Paul also opposes Social Security, Medicare, environmental regs &the EPA, any federal involvement (read:financial aid) in education, etc. I wonder how cool those same "libertarians" think that is!
Many years ago, the term "ugly American" was coined as shorthand for a certain kind of know-nothingism displayed abroad by certain travelers. iMO, Ron Paul personifies the attributes of Ugly on many levels. It is sad to watch some confuse all-around selfish penury with a renewing romantic independence.

should Hector go to battle, I'm right behind him (none / 0) (#25)
by Compound F on Fri Dec 23, 2011 at 06:28:33 AM EST

Let me know, A, when you mean it.

ndaa, etc.

toodles, baby. without animosity, CF.