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Saturday Afternoon Open Thread

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Blog Related
Posted on Sat Dec 17, 2011 at 01:56:24 PM EST
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Florida v Texas A&M hoops starts now.

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Open Thread.

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    Saturday Afternoon Open Thread | 54 comments (54 topical)

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    More new toys on the horizon (none / 0) (#1)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2011 at 02:10:22 PM EST
    To make the coming police state terror goons as efficient as possible when dealing with those dirty f'ing regular people sleeping in parks unreasonably expecting that their constitutional rights will still accrue in the new world order.

    Yoo ain't seen nuthin' yet...

    Raytheon has a patent pending now for a new police shield that produces a low-frequency sound which resonates with the respiratory tract, making it hard to breathe. According to the patent, the intensity could be increased from causing discomfort to the point where targets become "temporarily incapacitated".

    Gizmodo explains: Future Riot Shields Will Suffocate Protestors with Low Frequency Speakers

    But Raytheon's non-lethal pressure shield creates a pulsed pressure wave that resonates the upper respiratory tract of a human, hindering breathing and eventually incapacitating the target. The patent points out that the sound waves being generated are actually not that powerful, so while protestors might collapse from a lack of oxygen reaching their brains, their eardrums won't be damaged in the process. Phew!

    And like Roman soldiers joining their shields to form a large impenetrable wall, these new riot shields can actually be networked together to form a larger acoustical horn, vastly improving their range, power, and effectiveness. There's no word on what the long-term medical implications might be if you find yourself on the wrong side of one of these shields. But I imagine the unpleasant experience is not unlike being force choked from afar by Darth Vader.

    Ooops. Sorry for accidentally suffocating you to death. Can you hear me?

    Oh, c'mon (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by NYShooter on Sat Dec 17, 2011 at 02:19:59 PM EST
    they're meant to be used strictly against those dirty feet Mooslims.

    They would never, never, ever use them against American citizens. I mean, throwing them into dungeons forever and ever, and shooting them on the President's whim is one thing, but irritating their breathing apparatus? Too bizarre.

    Hey, a new slogan for OWS: "I have but one ear drum to give for my country"

    Catchy, huh?

    Parent

    Maybe (none / 0) (#5)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2011 at 02:29:07 PM EST
    the cops could play AC/DC's Highway To Hell through these things? At 200 decibels?

    Parent
    Well, that ought to (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by Zorba on Sat Dec 17, 2011 at 02:22:35 PM EST
    work out quite well, especially for people who have asthma, chronic bronchitis, emphysema, use a portable respirator, or basically have any kind of breathing problem.  Once they're available, you can be sure that law enforcement agencies will buy them.  And once they buy them, they will use them.  Jeez, just what they need, more ways to intimidate, injure, and even kill people.  But it's so less messy than shooting people, after all- no blood splattered around.  (And yes, this is snark.)  

    Parent
    ought to work real well (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by Amiss on Sat Dec 17, 2011 at 10:36:31 PM EST
    with my state-of -the art pacemaker dont ya think?

    Parent
    I'm sure it will, Amiss (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by Zorba on Sun Dec 18, 2011 at 06:57:35 AM EST
    Just as it will with my asthma.  And nobody will be thinking this through until after they use it the first time on a large-scale basis and a whole bunch of people die and/or are hospitalized.  Even then, they'll make excuses, as they do now with the Taser deaths.

    Parent
    Rock & Roll (none / 0) (#6)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2011 at 02:29:37 PM EST
    Hoochie Koo?

    Parent
    Lol. (5.00 / 0) (#29)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2011 at 04:36:15 PM EST
    Elton wasn't bad either... ;-)

    Parent
    Agree. Classic lyrics in that one (none / 0) (#39)
    by Edger on Sat Dec 17, 2011 at 07:46:03 PM EST
    Also in this one...

    Us and Them
    And after all we're only ordinary men
    Me, and you
    God only knows it's not what we would choose to do

    Forward he cried from the rear
    and the front rank died
    And the General sat, as the lines on the map
    moved from side to side

    Black and Blue
    And who knows which is which and who is who
    Up and Down
    And in the end it's only round and round and round

    Haven't you heard it's a battle of words
    the poster bearer cried
    Listen son, said the man with the gun
    There's room for you inside

    Down and Out
    It can't be helped but there's a lot of it about
    With, without
    And who'll deny that's what the fightings all about

    Out of the way, it's a busy day
    And I've got things on my mind
    For want of the price of tea and a slice
    The old man died



    Parent
    OWS (none / 0) (#4)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Sat Dec 17, 2011 at 02:28:26 PM EST
    I wish there was a way to check the box on the moves OWS does that you do not support.

    I can't support this:

    "The displaced occupiers had asked the church, one of the city's largest landholders, to hand over a gravel lot, near Canal Street and Avenue of the Americas, for use as an alternate campsite and organizing hub. The church declined, calling the proposed encampment "wrong, unsafe, unhealthy and potentially injurious."

    And now the Occupy movement, after weeks of targeting big banks and large corporations, has chosen Trinity, one of the nation's most prominent Episcopal parishes, as its latest antagonist.

    "We need more; you have more," one protester, Amin Husain, 36, told a Trinity official on Thursday, during an impromptu sidewalk exchange between clergy members and demonstrators. "We are coming to you for sanctuary."

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/17/nyregion/church-that-aided-wall-st-protesters-is-now-their-target. html?_r=1&hp

    Trinty (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Dec 17, 2011 at 02:36:24 PM EST
    is one of the biggest landlords in NYC and runs its real estate empire like a 1%er.

    That said, this is probably not the way for OWS to go.

    But the story, or your quote of it anyway. is terribly misleading with regard to the nature of Trinity..

    Parent

    The rest of the story (5.00 / 3) (#9)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Dec 17, 2011 at 02:38:54 PM EST
    "The criticism of Trinity was coming not only from protesters, but even from some Episcopal priests and other Protestant clergy members.

    "Trinity Church had a fantastic opportunity to be a Christlike presence by openings its doors to the protesters," said the Rev. Milind Sojwal, the rector of All Angels Church, an Episcopal parish on the Upper West Side. "And I believe Trinity blew it."

    On Thursday, some church leaders and protesters brought a Nativity scene to Trinity's main entrance on Broadway, with a sign attached. "There was no room for them in the inn," it read in part. "Trinity has plenty of room."

    Occupy Wall Street plans to hold a demonstration on Saturday at the lot. Some clergy members have said they planned to attend, and a handful said they may join protesters who have discussed taking down the fences around the lot, risking arrest.

    "I'm willing to occupy space in an act of civil disobedience in order to shine a light on social and economic injustice," said the Rev. John Merz, of the Episcopal Church of the Ascension in Greenpoint, Brooklyn."


    Parent

    Do you read only the headlines? (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by NYShooter on Sat Dec 17, 2011 at 02:39:22 PM EST
    try reading the rest of the article.

    "The Rev. Stephen Chinlund, 77, an Episcopal priest who retired seven years ago, held a placard reading: "Trinity Hero of 9/11. Be a Hero Again."

    The mission of the church was to help those in need, the Rev. Chinlund said. "We have been on the side of the people who are right here," he said."


    Parent

    i will move (none / 0) (#11)
    by The Addams Family on Sat Dec 17, 2011 at 02:55:26 PM EST
    my response to you (you asked me the same question) up here from the other thread (where i wondered whether OWS had now succumbed to Circular Firing Squad Syndrome)

    yes, of course i read the entire article - i don't see how the portions you've quoted [also cited here by BTD] make my original question irrelevant (if that's what you're suggesting)

    if find it rather feckless of OWS to be bickering with a church that has been a supporter instead of, you know, actually occupying the headquarters of Goldman, Chase, et al., or even Wall Street itself instead of a nearby park

    but we may well disagree on this - see also, if you're interested, my links in previous threads to questions about OWS raised by working people & other residents of Oakland, where i live

    Parent

    Didn't ask me (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Dec 17, 2011 at 03:02:57 PM EST
    But I'll respond, if I OWS, I would leave the complaints to other Episcopalians, who seem willing to make the beef.

    But I do object to the notion that Trinity is some benign force in Manhattan. It is not.

    Parent

    of course it's not (none / 0) (#13)
    by The Addams Family on Sat Dec 17, 2011 at 03:15:15 PM EST
    I do object to the notion that Trinity is some benign force in Manhattan. It is not.

    did someone suggest otherwise?

    i basically file Trinity's earlier support of OWS under "strange bedfellows" & agree that OWS might choose its battles more wisely, as in not taking one side in what is essentially a dispute between factions within the church

    Parent

    Easy for the rector of further north (none / 0) (#19)
    by oculus on Sat Dec 17, 2011 at 03:28:49 PM EST
    parishes to support OWS at Trinity. Trinity has an unsullied reputation (in S. CA).  Is it the diocese or the parish that is the mega-property owner?

    Parent
    I don't see churches or religious (5.00 / 2) (#15)
    by Anne on Sat Dec 17, 2011 at 03:17:40 PM EST
    organizations as being exempt from scrutiny or question, and I certainly don't believe they are entitled to higher moral ground just because they are churches or religious organizations; they like everyone, have endless opportunities to demonstrate that they live their faith.

    I have been troubled, I guess, by your assertion that you believe in the movement, but not the methods - it seems there is nothing they do, lately, that you find an acceptable way to advance their cause.

    When all is said and done, where Occupy comes from is still a place of much greater good than what they are fighting against - and while I agree with you that the optics matter, and that they probably have to hold themselves to a higher standard because the media and the 1% have the long knives out, it would be gratifying, occasionally, for a supporter, which you say you are, to attempt to defend and advocate for them, rather than sound like another bitter, carping representative of the 1%.

    Parent

    Circular Firing Squad Syndrome (5.00 / 0) (#16)
    by The Addams Family on Sat Dec 17, 2011 at 03:24:22 PM EST
    ur doin it rite

    Parent
    BTD has it right (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by MKS on Sat Dec 17, 2011 at 03:55:08 PM EST
    Trinity may have less than clean hands, but there are better targets for the Occupiers....

    They have done really well when protesting foreclosures.....

    Parent

    ur avoiding the issue, (none / 0) (#20)
    by Anne on Sat Dec 17, 2011 at 03:41:57 PM EST
    Have lost count of your critical comments about Occupy, that always end with, "but I support them."

    Sure you do.

    Parent

    ok (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by The Addams Family on Sat Dec 17, 2011 at 04:15:25 PM EST
    here is a less flippant response, since i think the discussion is one worth having

    all you seem to be saying is (1) that you are disturbed by the tenor &/or substance of my recent critical comments about OWS & (2) that because you are disturbed, (a) i must not be a real supporter of OWS (despite my numerous statements of support here at TL, not to mention my numerous actions in support of OWS in my own community) and (b) nothing (according to you) that OWS has done lately is "acceptable" to me

    i don't mind disagreeing with you about aspects of OWS, but i do think that your argument is not well served by hyperbole & distortion

    as i see it, both from afar (in NYC) & at close range (here in Oakland), OWS has reached a critical juncture &, in this media-saturated culture of ours, runs the risk of becoming 2011's Tickle Me Elmo, both because of the inevitable workings of media but also because of some OWS tactics that i have criticized, explicitly & implicitly

    if criticism of OWS is out of bounds from a progressive standpoint, even when OWS is out of touch with & alienating working people & communities of color (as here in Oakland), & even when OWS is choosing its battles unwisely (as i think OWS is doing with respect to Trinity), then OWS is well on the way to being a phenomenon that has changed "the conversation" among elites but is otherwise irrelevant (at best)

    Parent

    The Occupiers have done (none / 0) (#24)
    by MKS on Sat Dec 17, 2011 at 04:06:34 PM EST
    untold Good, and have been invaluable.

    But, now, there are those of anti-Obama, nihilistic, and anarchistic ilk who are trying to steer the occupiers into the rocks.

    The Occupiers attempt to shut down the docks in Oakland created confusion with some union people opposing it....

    Parent

    Optics (none / 0) (#26)
    by MKS on Sat Dec 17, 2011 at 04:08:08 PM EST
    Protesting the Episcopal Church has no upside.....

    This will offend so many.....No need with so many other targets out there.  

    Parent

    Early on for the Gators (none / 0) (#7)
    by CoralGables on Sat Dec 17, 2011 at 02:32:48 PM EST
    Nothing but net. The Aggies must have left the 12th man back home at Kyle Field.

    Totally off the subject of (none / 0) (#14)
    by Zorba on Sat Dec 17, 2011 at 03:17:13 PM EST
    politics, law, or sports:  Doggone son of a biscuit-eater!  I got a new Henckels Professional 6-inch serrated knife- totally great for slicing bread, and also for slicing tomatoes without crushing them, and sharp as a razor.  So I'm slicing up tomatoes for dinner, and darned if I didn't slice a chunk out of my finger at the same time (not enough for stitches, but it did bleed all over the place).  It seems as though I simply cannot get a new knife without "baptizing" it with my own blood.  I cut myself all the time-  I simply cook (and use knives) way, way too much.  My hands are beginning to resemble the hands of professional chefs.  

    If there's a silver lining (5.00 / 0) (#17)
    by rdandrea on Sat Dec 17, 2011 at 03:26:41 PM EST
    Getting cut with a really sharp knife hurts less because there's less tearing of the tissue.

    But if you're really prone to cutting yourself, You might consider something like these.

    My daughter worked for a big food service outfit and all the prep cooks were required to wear them.

    Parent

    Yes, I've heard of these, (none / 0) (#22)
    by Zorba on Sat Dec 17, 2011 at 03:56:26 PM EST
    and they're really great for the prep cooks, doing the same, fairly repetitive slicing all the time.  But I doubt that you'll find many head chefs using them, and I doubt that I would.  I simply use my hands too much for other things (crumbling feta cheese, kneading bread, mixing stiff batters with my hands, putting things in and pulling them out of the oven, etc) at the same time that I'm slicing this and that, and it would simply be too annoying to take these gloves off and on all the time.  I not only cook a lot at home, I'm always cooking for my church's food sales, and I do a lot of unpaid catering for friends and neighbors (weddings, showers, big parties, and so on- I ought to go into business!).  But you're right that really sharp knives hurt less when you get cut, and they make a clean cut, not a jagged one.  

    Parent
    I might wear them (none / 0) (#49)
    by rdandrea on Sun Dec 18, 2011 at 01:02:44 PM EST
    I try to do all my prep at once.

    Parent
    I think I would wear them (none / 0) (#50)
    by Zorba on Sun Dec 18, 2011 at 02:17:47 PM EST
    if what I'm doing is cutting up big slabs of meat, a bunch of whole chickens, or a large fish- no need to take them off until the job is done in those cases.   ;-)  

    Parent
    Zorba, I am smiling as I read your comment, (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by Anne on Sat Dec 17, 2011 at 03:27:12 PM EST
    because, as someone once said, "I feel your pain."

    As someone who also loves to cook, and does a lot of it, I am always on the lookout for good knives, and this summer, I bought a couple of wonderful Cutco knives - and let me tell you, they are sharp as all get out.

    I haven't had any major accidents, but some close calls - and knowing how sharp these knives are, I'm convinced that, as easy as they have made cutting up a whole chicken into parts, I know I could actually cut a finger off - pssssht! - before I was actually aware it had happened.

    I use them very, very carefully...and everyone in the house knows to use extra care - in fact, I would prefer they not even use the knives because I'm not convinced they really appreciate just how sharp they are.

    I also got some Cutco kitchen scissors, and let me tell you, those things are really handy.

    When we're finally all reduced to fending for ourselves, you and I could supply the tools for the medical tent...

    Parent

    LOL! (none / 0) (#25)
    by Zorba on Sat Dec 17, 2011 at 04:07:39 PM EST
    Yes, with a good knife, you can easily do serious damage to yourself! Nobody, but nobody, except Mr. Zorba, who also knows what he's doing, uses my Henckels Professional or Hattori knives, or my Global meat cleaver- you could take someone's head off with that one; it's designed to cut right through bone!
    PS  No matter how careful you are, accidents happen.  I don't know any professional chefs (and I know several) who don't have a lot of scars from knife accidents.  Not to mention burn scars.  

    Parent
    Butterfly has again offed herself. End of (none / 0) (#23)
    by oculus on Sat Dec 17, 2011 at 04:00:39 PM EST
    Met radio broadcast.  Christmas music now--Marian Anderson.  Quite lovely.  

    According to local paper we have (none / 0) (#30)
    by oculus on Sat Dec 17, 2011 at 04:53:43 PM EST
    have "local holiday-music experts."  That's a surprise.  link

    No bets on... (none / 0) (#31)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Sat Dec 17, 2011 at 04:54:51 PM EST
    the "Canadian manufacturer of t-shirts and sweatshirts Albuquerque Bowl" (WTF) and the "Famous Idaho Potato Bowl"?  

    Totally forgot that Frank Solich ended up at Ohio after getting run out of Nebraska and I really don't like the "famous Blue Turf" they have at Boise State.  It should be outlawed.  

    No opinion on those games (none / 0) (#34)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Dec 17, 2011 at 06:46:41 PM EST
    I love the Chargers tomorrow though.

    Parent
    That's funny. Locals don't. (none / 0) (#35)
    by oculus on Sat Dec 17, 2011 at 06:58:53 PM EST


    Parent
    What's the line on that? (none / 0) (#36)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Sat Dec 17, 2011 at 07:21:59 PM EST
    Not going to bet the farm on the Fighting Tebows, err I mean Broncos?  

    Parent
    Chargers (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by CoralGables on Sat Dec 17, 2011 at 07:27:55 PM EST
    are a 2.5 point dog at home.

    The Broncos are 7.5 point dogs at home.

    Parent

    Cesária Evora (none / 0) (#33)
    by The Addams Family on Sat Dec 17, 2011 at 06:41:37 PM EST
    has died . . . so sad

    Mittens! (none / 0) (#37)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Sat Dec 17, 2011 at 07:27:20 PM EST
    Romney gets the coveted endorsement of the Des Moines Register.  

    Sobriety, wisdom and judgment.

    Those are qualities Mitt Romney said he looks for in a leader. Those are qualities Romney himself has demonstrated in his career in business, public service and government. Those qualities help the former Massachusetts governor stand out as the most qualified Republican candidate competing in the Iowa caucuses.

    In other words, of all the clowns in the clown car, Mittens is the least clown-like.  

    How often has the person endorsed by (none / 0) (#43)
    by oculus on Sun Dec 18, 2011 at 01:09:42 AM EST
    Des Moines Register one the Iowa caucuses?  

    Parent
    last night, on Charlie Rose (none / 0) (#40)
    by NYShooter on Sat Dec 17, 2011 at 09:16:19 PM EST
    there was a discussion about Obama and election politics, strategies, polls, and positions. The guests were four political reporters from the NYT, including Managing Editor, Jill Abramson.

    FWIW, their consensus was:

    Obama is eminently beatable, but his strongest opponents chose not to enter the race.

    Of the current crop of contenders, the Obama team fears Romney the most. The public perceives him as having Presidential gravitas and, being knowledgable about business and economics.

    Didn't need Chas. Rose to tell us that. That's pretty much what we've been saying here at TL for months now.


    yes (none / 0) (#41)
    by The Addams Family on Sat Dec 17, 2011 at 10:04:16 PM EST
    it's significant that this view was aired on Charlie Rose's show, however - Charlie's adulation of Obama is a matter of record & has been for years

    Parent
    A few years back in Aspen (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by christinep on Sun Dec 18, 2011 at 04:00:05 PM EST
    C. Rose was selected by Repubs to host their conservative think-tank forum that summer (ala Gloria Borger.)

    I've always wondered whether Rose is the "intellectual" equivalent of Larry King.

    Parent

    I know what you mean (none / 0) (#55)
    by NYShooter on Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 12:35:29 AM EST
    Charlie is very well versed on many, many subjects. But guests don't agree to appear there to be put on the "hot seat." And Charlie, the ultimate Insider's Insider is all too happy to see they remain "cool."


    Parent
    Charlie is making (none / 0) (#45)
    by NYShooter on Sun Dec 18, 2011 at 10:25:37 AM EST
     a long delayed U-turn regarding "O."
    I'm seeing, more and more, whenever the topic is wealth and income disparity, and/or the financial debacle, that Chuck won't let the guests go without asking the question, "why have no CEO's been prosecuted?"

    However, his problem, as with all talk show hosts, is that they may ask the right question but permit a slippery non-answer, and, of course no follow-up.


    Parent

    OMG. I just watched a Kazakh MJ! (none / 0) (#46)
    by observed on Sun Dec 18, 2011 at 11:30:26 AM EST
    I've been watching the 20th anniversary of independence celebration on TV. The level of musical performance is quite high. The dance outfits are a cross between Abba and traditional Kazakh styles; probably not to most peoples' taste, but I like them.
    They just had a little tiny boy, maybe 5  years old, doing MJ's "Beat it!" His singing was fantastic: perfectly on pitch, with great rhythm. He was singing in Kazakh, except for when he sang "beat it". The level of dance, both his and the troupe's, was not as good as the music.
    Still, it would bring a smile to anyone. Right now they have "it's my life".


    how is that malady (none / 0) (#47)
    by The Addams Family on Sun Dec 18, 2011 at 12:38:54 PM EST
    you reported a couple of weeks ago? has it resolved?

    often the first few weeks in a foreign land can be trying, but then you get used to the local flora

    Parent

    How open for talking??? (none / 0) (#52)
    by christinep on Sun Dec 18, 2011 at 04:03:58 PM EST
    The NYTimes has a front-pager today on two towns in western Kazakhstan about the oil workers strike, the decision to turn the guns on said strikers, and different reports of deaths from the ranks of the strikers (govt there says 13; whereas others--=relatives & opposition members--say it is many times higher.) What are you hearing?

    Parent
    That action is far from me, and I (none / 0) (#53)
    by observed on Sun Dec 18, 2011 at 05:49:11 PM EST
    left Astana for Almaty two days ago, so I can't talk with people I know.
    That said, people feel generally free to talk about anything.


    Parent
    yesterday i tried (none / 0) (#48)
    by The Addams Family on Sun Dec 18, 2011 at 12:46:52 PM EST
    this recipe for a shakshuka

    i halved the recipe to serve two, & in deference to the spousal unit i left out the jalapeños

    it was still delicious - easy, too

    next time, though, i think i will use pre-crushed tomatoes - the work of crushing them by hand was not worth the result, because the cooking time was not long enough to soften the hand-crushed tomatoes to the right degree

    Teeeeeboooow! Well maybe not so much. (none / 0) (#54)
    by Zorba on Sun Dec 18, 2011 at 06:36:00 PM EST
    Denver just got slaughtered by New England, 41-23.  By the way, BTD, son Zorba calls the Denver Broncos the "Denver Tebows."  And in a very sarcastic way.    ;-)  

    Tebow played well (none / 0) (#56)
    by rdandrea on Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 10:29:04 AM EST
    11-22 for 194 yards and no interceptions, 93 yards rushing for 12 attempts and 2 TDs.  Many of his incomplete passes were thrown away to avoid sacks or interceptions.  He made only one mistake, a fumble.  The Broncos didn't give him much help with two other fumbles.

    Tebowmania aside, you win as a team and lose as a team.

    You can't put the ball on the ground three times against New England and expect to win.

    Parent

    Saturday Afternoon Open Thread | 54 comments (54 topical)

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