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15 Years For Recording Your Police Encounter?

Many states only require the consent of one party to a conversation to legally record it. Some states require the consent of both parties (Think Linda Tripp and Monica Lewinsky.)

Illinois takes the two party consent rule to a whole new level. For years, it has been a felony to record a conversation unless all parties agree. And, if you record a conversation with a police officer or prosecutor without their consent, it's a class 1 felony punishable by 15 years in prison.

Illinois is charging people who record their conversations with police without their knowledge and consent. The Times article tells the story of one woman who recorded her conversation with an officer when filing a complaint for sexual harassment against another officer. And another of a man who sold art on the sidewalk without a permit and taped his conversation with an officer who arrested him for the violation.

The ACLU has been trying to have the law declared invalid, to no avail so far. Other states with similar laws: Oregon and Massachusetts. Here's a handy state-by-state guide (but check to see that it's up to date on your state.)

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    To borrow... (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by kdog on Thu Jan 27, 2011 at 09:34:46 AM EST
    an often used phrase by the authoritarians..."if you've got nothing to hide, what's the problem with being recorded?"

    And to borrow another from Jagger/Richards..."these days its all secrecy, no privacy."

    5475 days cage time and no corpse?  Who are the criminals again?

    You beat me to the nothing to hide comment (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by republicratitarian on Thu Jan 27, 2011 at 09:41:41 AM EST
    On the money

    Parent
    Bingo! (none / 0) (#13)
    by NYShooter on Thu Jan 27, 2011 at 09:52:36 AM EST
    And to Capt Howdy's position on "stupidity," this could be the litmus test. Anyone who agrees with the statement, "if you have nothing to hide........." should be treated benignly, but restricted to plastic utensils.


    Parent
    so (none / 0) (#14)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jan 27, 2011 at 09:54:33 AM EST
    are you agreeing or disagreeing with Kdog

    Parent
    Jeeesh, you know (none / 0) (#15)
    by NYShooter on Thu Jan 27, 2011 at 10:00:45 AM EST
    My buddy, dogman, sometimes speaks in a strange, cryptic, urban-tongues  manner. So, I'm not sure how to interpret his comment, and don't want to guess. But, as for me, the "If you don't....." statement would make #1 on Letterman's 10 dumbest statements off all time.


    Parent
    than I would (none / 0) (#16)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jan 27, 2011 at 10:01:48 AM EST
    agree with you.  and disagree (I believe) with Kdog.

    Parent
    No, that's snark from kdog. (5.00 / 0) (#17)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Jan 27, 2011 at 10:03:42 AM EST
    Dry snark, served cold.

    Parent
    Yes sir... (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by kdog on Thu Jan 27, 2011 at 10:08:07 AM EST
    Just throwing an authoritarian catch-phrase back in their face...I believe you've got a right to privacy whether you've got something to hide or not:)

    What I don't believe in is different rules different fools.

    Parent

    however I am not sure (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jan 27, 2011 at 10:13:56 AM EST
    I would place the private sort of conversation that I absolutely think should not be recorded without permission and the sort of interchange you would have with a police officer in different frames.

    IMO if a cop has nothing to  hide in the way he treats you he should have no reason to care if he is being recorded.

    and if frogs had wings they would not bump their a$$ when they hop around.


    Parent

    I'm flexible... (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by kdog on Thu Jan 27, 2011 at 10:31:54 AM EST
    if the man doesn't wanna be recorded, stop recording us without our consent...works for me.

    But if they wanna keep recording and spying on us, we must have the right to record and spy on them...simple really.

    Parent

    did you see the (none / 0) (#26)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jan 27, 2011 at 10:37:17 AM EST
    "recording" today of the guy sending pot across the border with a catapult?

    pretty funny.  its on cnn I think.


    Parent

    I'll have to check that out... (none / 0) (#29)
    by kdog on Thu Jan 27, 2011 at 10:43:40 AM EST
    drug war necessity, the mother of ingenuity and invention!  I love it.

    Parent
    and a question (none / 0) (#22)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jan 27, 2011 at 10:19:19 AM EST
    arent almost all police stops recorded now?  and do we have the right to get that recording?

    Parent
    Don't know about "most" places, but ... (none / 0) (#27)
    by Yman on Thu Jan 27, 2011 at 10:37:27 AM EST
    ... here in NJ, most municipalities and the state police have their cruisers equipped to record their stops automatically when they turn on their lights/siren.  Some of the units have a "loop" that will record an interval (i.e. 30 seconds) before the lights are activated.  You can request a copy of the recording by way of discovery.

    I'm guessing that most cities and urban/suburban areas have their cruisers equipped to record stops, but maybe not all rural areas.

    Parent

    I see (none / 0) (#28)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jan 27, 2011 at 10:42:00 AM EST
    Websters defines tort as

    : a wrongful act other than a breach of contract for which relief may be obtained in the form of damages or an injunction

    I would have thought in this case it meant using it in a legal sense as in court to prove or disprove something.  I guess not.

     

    Parent

    Nah (none / 0) (#30)
    by jbindc on Thu Jan 27, 2011 at 10:44:34 AM EST
    A "tort" is basically a civil wrong against another party.  Trespassing, negligence, etc. are torts.

    Parent
    good (none / 0) (#19)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jan 27, 2011 at 10:08:38 AM EST
    to know

    Parent
    The irony is that... (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by owenz on Thu Jan 27, 2011 at 11:00:43 PM EST
    Virtually all of the eavesdropping laws, starting with the federal (one party consent) law and the more protective state laws (two party consent) were all a direct response to the Supreme Court's 1967 rulings in Katz and Berger, which held that government eavesdropping without probable cause violated the Forth Amendment's prohibition on eavesdropping on private citizens without a warrant.  

    The vast majority of these statutes address eavesdropping from a Forth Amendment perspective; that is preventing governement intrusion on citizens.  Accordingly, the extension of the law to probit eavesdropping by private citizens that were stuck onto these bills is awkward, given that the Forth Amendment constrains only government activity, not the acts of private citizens.  

    Regardless, the notion that state governments would now wield a body of law designed to restrain the government to punish citizens is truly warped.  The Massachusetts case law and statutory construction is especially egregious.   In Comm. v. Hyde, decided in 2003, the MA Supreme Judicial Court held:

    Every State, with the exception of Vermont, has some type of eavesdropping or wiretapping statute. The majority contain language that, to some degree, prohibits only the surreptitious recording of another's words when spoken with a reasonable expectation of privacy. .... We conclude that the Legislature intended [the statute], [to] strictly to prohibit all secret recordings by members of the public, including recordings of police officers or other public officials interacting with members of the public, when made without their permission or knowledge. .... [W]e would render meaningless the Legislature's careful choice of words if we were to interpret `secretly' as encompassing only those situations where an individual has a reasonable expectation of privacy.

    ----

    The Massachusetts eavesdropping statute, enacted in 1968, was the state's response to the Supreme Court's landmark 1967 rulings in two separate cases (Berger and Katz), in which the Warren court held for the first time that government wiretapping requires a warrant based on probable cause.  In other words, government wiretaps by the police and FBI "triggered" the law.  A brief review of the Massachusetts wiretapping statute reveals that roughly 90% of its provisions apply to police wiretapping.  That cops would use the same law to prevent citizens from recording official government activity, conducted in public, is both warped and seriously out of touch with the times, given that a plain reading of the statute and caselaw suggests that recording anyone's words on your cell phone on a busy street and posting the recording to YouTube is a felony.

    Of course, nobody thinks of it this way because at this point, the only group that is prosecuting people for recording actions taken by people in the plain view of others in the street are cops who have been recorded.  

    Who needs ACLU? (2.00 / 1) (#35)
    by diogenes on Thu Jan 27, 2011 at 03:53:12 PM EST
    The legislature and governor of Illinois can easily repeal this law if they see fit.

    So don't worry your wonderful minds (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by Harry Saxon on Thu Jan 27, 2011 at 04:06:54 PM EST
    about the possibility that it may be unconstitutional to prevent citizens from recording abuse by LEO officers.

    Parent
    See CA law, found to be unduly (none / 0) (#37)
    by oculus on Thu Jan 27, 2011 at 09:59:17 PM EST
    burdensome on freedom of speech.  It used to be a crime to file an frivolous lawsuit against a law enforcement officer.

    Parent
    alabama citizens' defense (none / 0) (#1)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Jan 27, 2011 at 07:46:47 AM EST
    and it has proved well in the past, is that for instance, "I knew I was taping it. If the police didn't, not my problem." The issue comes in 3rd party areas in this state.

    Does not look like NC is that bad (none / 0) (#2)
    by Buckeye on Thu Jan 27, 2011 at 08:08:52 AM EST
    unless I am reading it wrong.