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Monday Open Thread

Big immigration news day: The Supreme Court strikes down Arizona's law requiring additional proof of citizenship for voter registration, and ICE raids and seizes 14 East Coast 7-Eleven stores .

On the Supreme Court Case, the court held

The National Voter Registration Act of 1993 trumps Arizona’s Proposition 200. The federal law “precludes Arizona from requiring a federal form applicant to submit information beyond that required by the form itself,” Justice Antonin Scalia wrote for the majority.

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    Big news on the Fifth Amendment, too... (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by Anne on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 02:52:19 PM EST
    bmaz is on it over at emptywheel:

    Today the United States Supreme Court let a bit of the 5th Amendment backbone right to silence slip away down the slippery slope. In the case of Salinas v. Texas, with Justice Alito writing for the Court (rarely a good sign), it was held that a criminal defendant's silence can be used against him at trial. This is a stunning decision placing a knife blade in the age old general rule that a defendant's silence cannot be taken against him at trial.

    The facts, as laid out in the court's syllabus are as follows:

       Petitioner [Salinas], without being placed in custody or receiving Miranda warn- ings, voluntarily answered some of a police officer’'s questions about a murder, but fell silent when asked whether ballistics testing would match his shotgun to shell casings found at the scene of the crime. At petitioner’'s murder trial in Texas state court, and over his objection, the prosecution used his failure to answer the question as evidence of guilt. He was convicted, and both the State Court of Appeals and Court of Criminal Appeals affirmed, rejecting his claim that the pros- ecution’'s use of his silence in its case in chief violated the Fifth Amendment.

    Alito held that petitioner’'s Fifth Amendment claim fails because he did not "expressly" invoke his privilege to silence affirmatively in response to the police officer’'s questions. The upshot is that the word "silence" in "right to silence" does not necessarily mean "silence". This follows a long line of similarly disquieting cases going back to the likes of the 1984 decision in Minnesota v. Murphy to the quite recent decision in Berghuis v. Thompkins, where the Court held that a defendant failed to invoke his Miranda right by remaining silent for nearly three hours.

    [snip]

    Salinas may, on the surface, seem like an incremental decision, but it has the characteristics of something more, and more dangerous. The concurrence of Thomas and Scalia is a dead give away why. The Roberts Court conservative bloc has a disdain for Miranda, not just as to evidentiary admission, but as to comment on right to silence as well. These are linchpins of a criminal suspect/defendant's constitutional rights, and the chipping away is being accomplished by big hatchets.

    And the hits just keep on comin'...

    Hey, Thanks! (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by bmaz on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 04:59:24 PM EST
    It is an absolutely horrid decision, even if mildly predictable.

    Parent
    AN AXE LENGTH AWAY, vol. 39 (none / 0) (#1)
    by Dadler on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 02:44:18 PM EST
    Holy Sh*t! (none / 0) (#3)
    by kdog on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 03:07:50 PM EST
    I think that's my 7-11 in the NY Times photo, but only if the caption is incorrect.  It says Carleton Ave. in Islip Terrace, which is like one neighborhood over from me, but I don't think thats the Sevs in the photo, it looks like my local Sevs on Calebs Path in Central Islip.

    I know all 7-11's kinda look alike but I'm pretty sure that's the Calebs Path location...right down to the firewood and garbage pail location.  If I'm not mistaken the Carleton Ave has a different layout.  I gotta check it out on the way home, maybe I'm confused.

    What a shame if my spot did get raided...all the clerks are real nice guys and always let me slide when I'm a nickel short.  I know the owner is Pakistani, he seems like a good dude too.  

    What a shame regardless...I've never seen ICE in my neck of the woods like that, and I'm in a heavy immigrant population area.  It's creepy man.

    kdog...you gotta get outta that place (none / 0) (#23)
    by fishcamp on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 06:09:33 PM EST
    if it's the last thing you ever do and c'mon down here where you can stop wishin and start fishin...I know where they live and we're not even down to rock bottom...yet.

    Parent
    No (none / 0) (#4)
    by jbindc on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 03:10:14 PM EST
    It didn't quite say that a criminal defendant's silence can be used at trial.  It said the silence by a suspect before arrest can be used at trial.

    From SCOTUSblog (sorry, no link)

    As almost all Americans who have ever watched television or gone to a movie know, the Supreme Court held in a case called Miranda v. Arizona that a criminal suspect who is in police custody must be advised of his right to remain silent; if the suspect chooses to remain silent, that silence cannot be used against him in a trial.  The question before the Court in this case was whether this protection of silence applies before a suspect is actually arrested.  The defendant in this case, Genevevo Salinas, voluntarily went to the police station, where officers interviewed him about a pair of 1992 murders.  When asked whether a shotgun given to police by his father would match shell casings found at the crime scene, Salinas did not answer.  At his trial for the murders, prosecutors used Salinas's silence as evidence of his guilt; Salinas was convicted and sentenced to twenty years in prison.

    Over the years, the lower courts had been divided on whether prosecutors can point to the "precustodial" silence of suspects.  Today the Court resolved that conflict, holding that because Salinas failed to invoke his right to remain silent in response to the officers' questions, his silence was fair game at his trial. The Court reasoned that the privilege against self-incrimination applies only when it is asserted, and that merely remaining silent in response to questions is not enough.



    So, you can't actually be silent until (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by Anne on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 03:38:22 PM EST
    you state that you are about to be silent.  

    Because no one would know for sure what the silence meant unless you told them.  I mean, it could be that God had struck you dumb, or you had a stroke and couldn't speak, or that your English wasn't good enough for you to understand the questions, or that it was Silent Saturday, not Talkative Tuesday.

    Jesus.

    Parent

    It would certainly seem to me (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by Zorba on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 05:14:05 PM EST
    to be a strong argument for never saying anything whatsoever to the police in the first place without your lawyer present.  And for pity's sake, don't ever walk into a police station voluntarily to answer questions, even about outstanding traffic tickets, without having your lawyer there.
    Precustodial, my @ss.

    Parent
    Apparently, it isn't enough to not say (5.00 / 2) (#21)
    by Anne on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 05:42:27 PM EST
    anything; it seems like there is a requirement in some situations to affirmatively state that you are invoking your right to remain silent - even if you're told that you're not under arrest.

    "I'm invoking my right to remain silent, and if I'm not under arrest, I'm leaving.  If you refuse to let me leave, I will need to speak to an attorney.  If you won't let me speak to an attorney, I'm putting you on notice that I have the right to remain silent, and am invoking that right from this point forward."

    Now, what are the chances that if you are poor, have no access to legal advice, may not have much education, or good English language skills, that you won't be taken advantage of when it comes to the right to remain silent?

    Pretty low, I would think.

    Parent

    Extremely low, I would think. (none / 0) (#22)
    by Zorba on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 05:56:49 PM EST
    Unfortunately.
    Everyone, memorize Anne's statement in any dealings with the police.
    "I'm invoking my right to remain silent, and if I'm not under arrest, I'm leaving.  If you refuse to let me leave, I will need to speak to an attorney.  If you won't let me speak to an attorney, I'm putting you on notice that I have the right to remain silent, and am invoking that right from this point forward."

    Print it out and carry it in your wallet.  
    Not that this will help the poor, the uneducated, etc, all that much.  If you know anyone in this situation, give them a copy, too, and explain it to them.

    Parent
    Well, I love the entire (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by fishcamp on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 06:21:11 PM EST
    statement except for the "Im putting you on notice".  That part could get you a ride downtown instantly here in South Florida.  Cops just do not like citizens down here.   Granted there's a lotta dumb citizens here and a lotta dumb co...oh oh are they watching me type?

    Parent
    They probably are. (none / 0) (#32)
    by Zorba on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 08:20:40 PM EST
    n/t

    Parent
    I Was Thinking How That Logic... (none / 0) (#12)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 04:19:38 PM EST
    ...would apply to the First Amendment.  

    Never realized that our rights had to be announced before they become effective.

    I kinda get it in this case, the police are asking him questions he's answering them, then they ask if his gun will match the bullets at the murder scene and he clams up.  And they want to mention it at trial.

    The real question to me is if he wasn't in custody or a suspect why did they ask him the question that started this whole mess.  Seems like a real incentive for the police to use this 'gotchcha' method for people they actually do suspect, but claim in court they didn't at the time.

    Parent

    He apparently (none / 0) (#13)
    by jbindc on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 04:48:29 PM EST
    Walked into the police station, of his own free will, to answer questions about a 1992 murder. He was never in custody and was always free to leave.

    On the morning of December 18, 1992, two brothers were shot and killed in their Houston home. There were no witnesses to the murders, but a neighbor who heard gun shots saw someone run out of the house and speed away in a dark-colored car. Police recovered six shotgun shell casings at the scene. The investigation led police to petitioner, who had been a guest at a party the victims hosted the night before they were killed. Police visited petitioner at his home, where they saw a dark blue car in the driveway. He agreed to hand over his shotgun for ballistics testing and to accompany police to the station for questioning.

    Petitioner's interview with the police lasted approximately one hour. All agree that the interview was noncustodial, and the parties litigated this case on the assumption that he was not read Miranda warnings. See Miranda v. Arizona, 384 U. S. 436 (1966). For most of the interview, petitioner answered the officer's questions. But when asked whether his shotgun "would match the shells recovered at the scene of the murder," App. 17, petitioner declined to answer. Instead, petitioner "[l]ooked down at the floor, shuffled his feet, bit his bottom lip, cl[e]nched his hands in his lap, [and] began to tighten up." Id., at 18. After a few moments of silence, the officer asked additional questions, which petitioner answered. Ibid.

    Following the interview, police arrested petitioner that there was insufficient evidence to charge him with the murders, and he was released. A few days later, police obtained a statement from a man who said he had heard petitioner confess to the killings. On the strength of that additional evidence, prosecutors decided to charge petitioner, but by this time he had absconded. In 2007, police discovered petitioner living in the Houston area under an assumed name.

    And apparently, this isn't really new.  From the opinion:

    It has long been settled that the privilege "generally is not self-executing" and that a witness who desires its protection "`must claim it.'" Minnesota v. Murphy, 465 U. S. 420, 425, 427 (1984) (quoting United States v. Monia, 317 U. S. 424, 427 (1943)). Although "no ritualistic formula is necessary in order to invoke the privilege," Quinn v. United States, 349 U. S. 155, 164 (1955), a witness does not do so by simply standing mute.

    Continuing on through pages 7, the opinion spells out exactly how an express claiming of the privilege has been settled law, and lays out the two exceptions where an express claim does not have to be made.  The Court also points out that neither of the exceptions apply here.

    Parent

    Oops (none / 0) (#15)
    by jbindc on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 04:52:17 PM EST
    I missed a bit of the facts - after the interview:

    police arrested petitioner onoutstanding traffic warrants. Prosecutors soon concluded there was insufficient evidence to charge him with the murders....

    Sorry about that.

    Parent

    JB inDC... (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by bmaz on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 06:21:05 PM EST
    ... If you didn't pay attention to the concurrence coupled with the majority, you don't have a full grip on what the decision both stands for now and importunes for the future. Even the majority absolutely said silence could be used against a defendant at trial. Full Stop. The fact that, in this case, a temporal distinction of before/after Miranda was made is of little solace.

    Parent
    Supposed to be in response to Anne (none / 0) (#5)
    by jbindc on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 03:11:10 PM EST
    While the Court may have struck down (none / 0) (#6)
    by Anne on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 03:32:24 PM EST
    Arizona's law, it seems it left the door wide open, and provided a handy trail of legal bread crumbs over the threshold, with its ruling today.

    From Scotusblog:

    If a reader of the Scalia opinion stopped at the top of page 13, the impression would be very clear that Congress had won hands down in the field of regulating federal elections.   But from that point on, there is abundant encouragement for what is essentially a states' rights argument: that is, that the states have very wide authority to define who gets to vote, in both state and federal elections.

    On the particular point at issue in this case -- Arizona's requirement of proof of citizenship before one may register to vote or actually vote -- the Scalia opinion said that a state was free to ask the federal government for permission to add that requirement.   And, Scalia said, if that doesn't work -- either because the federal agency that would deal with such a request is either not functioning or says no -- then a state would be free to go to court and make an argument that it has a constitutional right to insist on proof of citizenship as an absolute qualification for voting, in all elections.

    The opinion seemed to leave little doubt that, if Arizona or another state went to court to try to establish such a constitutional power, it might well get a very sympathetic hearing, because that part of the Scalia opinion laid a very heavy stress on the power of states under the Constitution to decide who gets to vote.   Indeed, that part of the opinion said that the Constitution simply does not give Congress the power to decide who can qualify, but only how federal elections are run procedurally.

    It will be up to lower courts -- and election-law specialists -- to sort out just how to reconcile the two parts of the Court's majority opinion.   And it appears there may well be quite a few opportunities to do so, because of the rising number of efforts -- particularly in states in which Republicans have control of state governments -- to impose new voter ID and other restrictions on the right to vote.

    Sure makes me wonder how different things would look if we'd been able to have a Democratic president fill the seats Justices Alito and Roberts now hold...

    Wonder if (none / 0) (#10)
    by jbindc on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 03:59:32 PM EST
    They will start going after people for perjury? The federal law allows:

    The federal law, the National Voter Registration Act of 1993, allows voters to register using a federal form that asks, "Are you a citizen of the United States?" Prospective voters must check a box for yes or no, and they must sign the form, swearing under the penalty of perjury that they are citizens.


    Parent
    Yup (none / 0) (#20)
    by squeaky on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 05:22:34 PM EST
    Arizona officials said they will continue to use state voter registration forms that require a prospective voter to prove citizenship, despite a Supreme Court ruling that struck down the requirement on federal forms.

    Hours after voting rights advocates were hailing Monday's Supreme Court decision, officials indicated that Arizona will take advantage of a provision in the ruling allowing the state to seek to continue requiring the added documentation while it appeals to a federal agency. In effect, the Supreme Court's ruling, which was viewed as a step forward in national voter registration law, could have a less of an immediate impact within the state.

    link

    Parent

    Congress can only regulate Congressional elections (none / 0) (#31)
    by kramartini on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 08:04:55 PM EST
    It would seem that Arizona can still request, but not require, those who use the Federal form to provide proof of citizenship.

    Those who provide the proof would be registered for all purposes.

    Those who fail to provide the proof would then be registered only for Congressional elections.

    Parent

    Another Supreme Court ruling (none / 0) (#8)
    by MO Blue on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 03:38:54 PM EST
    Thanks to the Supreme Court, it may soon become slightly easier to get the  cheaper generic version of some medications.  In the case of FTC v. Actavis, Inc. the Court decided 5-3 that the FTC has the power to try to stop "pay for delay" on anti-trust grounds.  This is a practice in which drug companies pay generic drug makers not to bring the generic version to the market. Without the competition the price of brand name drug remains high and the two companies basically split the extra profits.

    Justice Kennedy joined with the four liberals on the court to form the majority. Justice Alito recused himself. link



    More (none / 0) (#9)
    by jbindc on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 03:44:19 PM EST
    SCOTUSblog:

    What was at stake in the case was a legal practice that has shown up most prominently in the drug industry: the so-called "pay to delay" practice under which a holder of a brand-name patent, after having its patent rights challenged, fends off the potential competition from a generic company with a big dollar payoff, running into tens of millions of dollars, in order to keep the patent monopoly intact.

    Although the new style of antitrust lawsuit that the decision will permit was not free from ambiguity, the majority opinion written by Justice Stephen G. Breyer made two things very clear: first, that the mere fact that the generic was being held off only during the remaining period of a patent's validity was not enough to make such a payoff immune to antitrust lawsuit, and, second, that such payment arrangements will not face a challenge under antitrust law in which they are presumed at the outset to be illegal.

    Challengers will have to prove that the payoff was harmful to competition and thus illegal, under the customary "rule of reason."  That is a theory under antitrust, not patent, law.  And, while the Breyer opinion expressed the expectation that this would not turn such antitrust cases into mini-trials on whether the patent was or was not valid, the dissenting opinion by Chief Justice John G. Roberts, Jr., argued that patent validity will be at the core, severely complicating -- and raising the cost of -- such lawsuits.

    While Justice Breyer insisted that the Court was not really doing anything new or different, but merely applying conventional antitrust principles, the Chief Justice argued in dissent that the Court had never before -- in the 123 years of the Sherman Antitrust Act -- crossed the "Rubicon" of allowing antitrust law to dictate the legality of patent infringement settlements.



    Parent
    NCAA College World Series, Days 3 & 4: (none / 0) (#11)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 04:15:13 PM EST
    Remember, it's a double elimination tournament in NCAA baseball.

    Game No. 1: Mississippi State 5, Oregon State 4.

    Game No. 2: Indiana 2, Louisville 0.

    Game No. 3: North Carolina State 8, North Carolina 1.

    Game 4: UCLA 2, LSU 1.

    Game No. 5 (Mon. 3:00 p.m. EDT): Oregon State v. Louisville
    (Loser will be eliminated, and winner will play the loser of Game No. 6 on Wed., June 19)

    Game No. 6 (Mon. 8:00 p.m. EDT): Mississippi State v. Indiana

    Game No. 7 (Tues. 3:00 p.m. EDT): North Carolina v. LSU
    (Loser will be eliminated, and winner will play the loser of Game No. 8 on Wed., June 19)

    Game No. 8 (Tues. 8:00 p.m. EDT): North Carolina State v. UCLA

    C'mon OSU, pull it together! (none / 0) (#14)
    by ruffian on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 04:51:16 PM EST
    The Beavers are looking good (none / 0) (#16)
    by CoralGables on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 04:59:24 PM EST
    Up 10-4 through 6 innings today in a win or go home game.

    Parent
    You have history on your side. (none / 0) (#24)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 06:11:16 PM EST
    I believe the Beavers played their way back through the loser's bracket to win the 2007 NCAA title.

    It's certainly not uncommon; the last team to do it was Fresno State in 2008. it's just that in order to do so, you have to win four games to get to the championship final rather than only three, as you otherwise would if you went through the winner's bracket.

    Parent

    And the Beavers win. They beat Louisville 11-4. (none / 0) (#33)
    by caseyOR on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 08:31:07 PM EST
    The year the Beavs played their way back through the loser's bracket was 2006, not 2007. They won the CWS in both '06 and '07.

    Go, Beavers!

    Parent

    Thank you for the correction. (none / 0) (#34)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jun 18, 2013 at 01:05:37 AM EST
    I knew the Beavers did it in one of those two years. They went on to beat North Carolina in the finals both times.

    Mississippi State came from behind tonight in Game No. 6 (winner's bracket) to beat Indiana, 5-4. So, Oregon State will now face the Hoosiers on Wednesday in Game No. 9, which is another elimination game for the Beavers. The winner will have to beat MSU twice to gain the College World Series finals, while the Bulldogs only have to win once.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Professor Blastoff Podcast (none / 0) (#19)
    by ruffian on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 05:21:17 PM EST
    Have to share my newest source of funny with you all. This is a podcast with 4 comedians that talk weekly about a variety of subjects, mostly something generally scientific, philosophical, or life in general in nature - no specific politics or media/cultural topics, which is a relief sometimes. They have a special guest 'expert' on the topic of the week -sometimes the expert is another friend that has a special interest in something, other times it is a listener that has some kind of credentials. It is the combination of learning, ruminating, and comedic riffing on a topic that makes it great. Like having a chat with your 4 funniest friends.

    They started this podcast in 2011, and since then one of them, Tig Notaro, got more exposure in a painful way when she was diagnosed with breast cancer last summer, and went on stage that night talking about it. Louis CK saw her and posted it on his site. She is since in remission after a mastectomy. I had not heard of the other 3 before, but looking at their credits they have done lots of work.

    I started listening a few weeks ago - basically picked one at random from the list in itunes to get me started...there are a few running jokes that take more than one listen to tune into, but you get into it pretty quick. One of the guys, Kyle Dunnegan, does really funny impressions and characters.

    It is hard to describe, but I am guaranteed one real LOL moment per podcast,which is enough to get me going in the morning.

    Look for the live show with Ira Glass from Dec. 2012 - it is pretty accessible to start out with, and had me doubled over laughing this morning.

    Blood on Trayvon's Hands (none / 0) (#27)
    by rickroberts on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 07:10:35 PM EST
    Did the autopsy report show George's blood on Trayvon's hands? If not, I wonder why not. Was it not there, or did the examiner miss it?

    Are you assuming that ... (none / 0) (#28)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 07:26:13 PM EST
    ... there would've been blood on the deceased's hands at autopsy, without offering any supporting proof on your part -- and then further suggesting that prosecutors not only demonstrate to your satisfaction that George Zimmerman's blood was NOT found on the deceased's hands, but also that it was never there in the first place?

    How exactly does one prove such a negative?

    Parent

    Nope (none / 0) (#29)
    by rickroberts on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 07:33:03 PM EST
    I'm not saying that at all. I have been of the opinion all along that GZ acted in self-defense, but the blood question keeps being thrown at me. I just wonder if there is an answer. Is there something I have missed, have not read, whatever?

    Parent
    There are lots of answers (none / 0) (#30)
    by Yman on Mon Jun 17, 2013 at 07:51:54 PM EST
    Rain washed away any blood, there wasn't any blood to begin with, etc.

    I think the least likely explanation is that the coroner somehow "missed it".  In a case such as this, he/she would have paid particularly close attention to any blood, particularly on his hands.

    Parent