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Sunday Night Open Thread

For those of you following the news and serious topics, here's an open thread. All topics welcome.

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    Heading to the store tomorrow to (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by jeffinalabama on Sun Jan 16, 2011 at 11:36:01 PM EST
    buy that lava lamp.

    Re-introduced my date to "The Princess Bride."

    Cannot underestimate that film...

    Ate jaegershnitzel, hot German potato salad, good rye bread, and had half of a 24-ounce lager. Conversation was much better than the beer.

    Admit it (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by CoralGables on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 10:04:23 AM EST
    you were just trying to get her to cuddle up when the ROUS's showed up.

    Parent
    Busted! (none / 0) (#44)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 10:14:11 AM EST
    I've got it bad... (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 12:00:26 PM EST
    This song was in my mind when I woke up this morning.

    Today's going to be a Sinatra day...

    Parent

    dare I ask. Was ist (none / 0) (#11)
    by oculus on Sun Jan 16, 2011 at 11:42:04 PM EST
    jaegerschnitzel?  (I know what schnitzel is!)

    Parent
    Spelled wrong, sorry (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 09:40:18 AM EST
    jagerscnitzel.

    Oh, she gave me a second-date gift...

    an Etch-a-Sketch!

    Parent

    mmmm... lava lamp (none / 0) (#12)
    by sj on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 12:04:07 AM EST
    Glad to hear the dates are going well. (none / 0) (#16)
    by caseyOR on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 01:35:30 AM EST
    The third date is definitely the lava lamp date.

    Did that viewing of "The Princess Bride," generate any interest in joining a pirate crew?

    Parent

    There's always hope, Casey... (none / 0) (#28)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 09:37:26 AM EST
    she did forensic accounting dueing the savings and loan crisis... an excellent addition for a 2011 pirate crew, I would think...

    Parent
    Sounds like a keeper Jeff... (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by kdog on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 09:47:14 AM EST
    she can review our case files to see who qualifies as dirty enough to steal from:)

    Parent
    I've decided that 50's/60's is the new 18, (none / 0) (#33)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 09:53:28 AM EST
    but without teenage angst.

    And if you fall asleep in front of the television, your date doesn't think you're 'bored.'

    Bad note, I did sleep through both of my classes this morning. MLK day isn't celebrated in Barcelona. I'll be getting chewed out, European university style, by COB today.

    Parent

    Coulda fooled me... (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by kdog on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 10:06:32 AM EST
    those 50-60 year old tea partiers got angst in spades:)

    Sleeping through morning classes...spoken like a true 19 year old!

    Parent

    Tea Partuers? Angst? (1.00 / 1) (#47)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 10:15:53 AM EST
    You ever see "West Side Story?"

    BTW - Your Jets better beat Pittsburg next week after I pulled for'em yesterday.

    Parent

    It would be a dream... (none / 0) (#54)
    by kdog on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 10:33:46 AM EST
    for a simple boy from NY who grew up in Freeman McNeil & Al Toon jerseys....just one big dance before I die or the world ends, please o' wise & powerful football gods.

    Parent
    I understand (none / 0) (#98)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 12:34:20 PM EST
    I had that feeling in '98 with UT.

    Parent
    Auburn this year for me. (none / 0) (#135)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 01:08:31 PM EST
    Anything else is gravy.

    Parent
    See you in the SEC (5.00 / 1) (#182)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 05:42:31 PM EST
    Championship game come December!

    Parent
    OT Captain Casey... (none / 0) (#46)
    by kdog on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 10:15:31 AM EST
    I'm in the home stretch of "Shantaram", 200 pgs. to go...should be done in a couple days then she is all yours.

    Parent
    Okay, kdog. (none / 0) (#179)
    by caseyOR on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 04:37:35 PM EST
    How shall we effect the transfer of the book? Sadly, I will not be among the participants in next month's NYC cultural meet-up.

    Let me know how you want tohandle it, please.

    Parent

    My email adress... (none / 0) (#189)
    by kdog on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 07:56:40 AM EST
    is listed on my TL user profile, if you wanna email me an address I'll put the book in the trusty hands of the USPS.  

    Just put 'casey' or something in the subject so I know its you, I get alotta spam.

    Parent

    Okay, one more Sinatra. (none / 0) (#87)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 12:23:28 PM EST
    (kdog, did I mention she's of Italian  ancestry? She actually asked me, "Which thing? The first thing or the second thing?"

    Maybe I should say, "You had me at fuggedaboudit."

    in.the.pocket.Here's Sinatra, 1959, I think, with Count Basie and His Orchestra. Nelson Riddle arrangement. Check the strings...

    Parent

    I'm guessing.. (none / 0) (#119)
    by kdog on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 12:55:10 PM EST
    ancestry from southern Italy, based on your usual taste in the fairer sex...a dark haired beauty with a brain to match.

    Havin' it bad is good bro...I'm real happy for ya.

    Parent

    Latin, Latina... (none / 0) (#123)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 12:59:12 PM EST
    to-may-to, to-mah-to... but an Ares, not Scorpius.

    Parent
    You would have me at Buttercup (none / 0) (#110)
    by ruffian on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 12:48:19 PM EST
    Nice choice!

    Parent
    If she calls Jeff (none / 0) (#125)
    by CoralGables on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 01:01:49 PM EST
    Farmboy, it's all over but the nuptials.

    Parent
    As you wish! (5.00 / 1) (#136)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 01:09:25 PM EST
    Today, Monday (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by lentinel on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 06:31:03 AM EST
    is Martin Luther King day.

    He will be celebrated for making his speech in which he declared that he had a "dream".

    As long as he is portrayed as a dreamer, the government has no problem with him.

    But let us also remember that he advocated and practiced civil disobedience. Without that, there would have been no action by the government and no civil rights bill. He was willing to be jailed for his beliefs and his actions in the pursuit of justice - and he was.

    Let us also remember that he finally also confronted the government over its war in Vietnam.

    They will not speak of his courage in confronting the government head on.

    They will refer to him as a dreamer.

    Very little is ever said (none / 0) (#65)
    by brodie on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 11:05:51 AM EST
    in the MSM about King's last planned march (which I briefly discuss in another post below), the Poor People's March on Washington, which he intended as a massive camp out that would force Congress to finally act on economic justice issues.  That one was meant not as some nice weekend camp out with some good PR and then everyone goes home, but one that wouldn't end until it got meaningful change.  Talk about directly confronting government.

    As important, and possibly more important, than his 1967 anti-VN War speech, at least according to some in King's camp like Andy Young, who directly linked the march to King's assassination.

    Parent

    well (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by CST on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 10:33:26 AM EST
    football was cancelled this weekend and I'm at work on a holiday.

    But I spent my weekend in heaven, so I think I'll survive.

    Although driving home was less fun.

    There she is:)... (none / 0) (#56)
    by kdog on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 10:36:09 AM EST
    trying to be as gracious as you were after the Monday Night debacle CST...but it is hard god damn work sister!

    Parent
    enjoy it.... (none / 0) (#60)
    by CST on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 10:48:04 AM EST
    it might not last :)

    I just keep repeating to myself the mantra - back in october this was a "rebuilding year".  The team is young, Brady still has plenty of good years left.  And good teams often lose in the playoffs...  But yea, it $ucked.

    It seems like they just never showed up last night.

    Parent

    Oh I will... (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by kdog on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 11:12:38 AM EST
    even if the Steelers blow us off the field, I'll have the Tom Brady "The NY Jets just kicked my arse in the playoffs, in my house" look to cherish all spring and summer long.

    Parent
    oh yea (5.00 / 2) (#55)
    by CST on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 10:35:06 AM EST
    and go Steelers!

    Jared Loughner to be tried in San Diego. (none / 0) (#1)
    by caseyOR on Sun Jan 16, 2011 at 10:27:38 PM EST
    I just got a WaPo news flash that said Loughner's trial will be held in San Diego, not Tucson.

    This is not surprising news.

    Hmmm. What are the ramifications? (none / 0) (#2)
    by oculus on Sun Jan 16, 2011 at 10:29:10 PM EST
    Apparently Loughner is not an alleged domestic terrorist.  Will the NRA turn out in force?  The Tea Party?  Who knows.

    Parent
    He's not a Muslim. So, of course, we (none / 0) (#5)
    by caseyOR on Sun Jan 16, 2011 at 10:33:38 PM EST
    don't consider him a terrorist. It seems that our government's current position is that, no matter what crime you commit, if you are not a Muslim you are not a terrorist.

    If you are Muslim, well, that;s a different matter.

    Parent

    Let me clarify my previous comment. (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by caseyOR on Sun Jan 16, 2011 at 10:35:22 PM EST
    I do not have any reason to think that Jared Loughner is a terrorist. I was just making an observation about how we officially sort these matters out.

    Parent
    You can take this to the bank (none / 0) (#35)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 10:04:07 AM EST
    Neither the Tea Party or the NRA had anything to do with this terrible crime and will not "turn out."

    Parent
    OTOH, the chances of (none / 0) (#51)
    by Harry Saxon on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 10:29:52 AM EST
    Sarah Palin being a serious candidate next year have dropped from slim to none, if you listen to this fellow here, from the America-hating nytimes(dot)com:

    It's a grim spectacle on both sides, and last week's pointless controversy was a particularly low point. So let me play the relationship counselor. To the media: Cover Sarah Palin if you want, but stop acting as if she's the most important conservative politician in America. Stop pretending that she has a plausible path to the presidency in 2012. (She doesn't.) Stop suggesting that she's the front-runner for the Republican nomination. (She isn't.) And every time you're tempted to parse her tweets for some secret code or crucial dog whistle, stop and think, this woman has fewer Twitter followers than Ben Stiller, and then go write about something else instead.

    To Palin: You were an actual politician once (remember that?), but you're becoming the kind of caricature that your enemies have always tried to make of you. So maybe it's time to turn off your iPad for a while, and take a break from Facebook and Fox News. The world won't end if you don't respond to every criticism, and you might even win a few more admirers if you cultivated a lighter touch and a more above-the-fray persona. Oh, and when that reality-TV producer sends you a pitch for "Sarah Plus Five Plus Kate Plus Eight," just say no.

    Breaking up is hard to do, of course. But for the majority of Americans who are neither Palinoiacs nor Palinistas, here's the good news: If the press (including this columnist!) and Sarah Palin can't quit each other, you can still quit us.

    Click or Ignore Me

    You need to give her some tips on self-restraint, PPJ, I can think of nobody else uniquely qualified for such a task:

    A Real American who has only lived in Real America for most of your civilian life,

    The greatest businessman since Henry Ford passed on into the next world,

    and the best poker player in the world since Cementman Clement was the card sharp of the day.

    This is for kdog:

    Police came to Maria Huff's Burbank home in 2007 after hearing that her son had written a letter threatening to shoot up his high school. They asked Rivera if they could come in and she said no, not without a warrant.

    When they asked if there were any guns in the house, Huff said she told them she would get her husband, then headed inside, followed by her son, who was also at the doorway, and four officers.

    After remaining for five to 10 minutes and finding no evidence of a crime, the officers left. In short order they were hit with a civil suit by Rivera, her husband and son - who had written no such threatening letter - for entering the home without any legal justification.

    A federal judge dismissed the suit, saying the officers had reason to believe there might be guns in the home and that the family could be in danger. But a federal appeals court in San Francisco ruled last week that "mere speculation" doesn't justify entering a home without consent from the residents, a warrant or actual evidence of a crime.



    Click or Ignore Me


    Parent
    The victimized family... (none / 0) (#76)
    by kdog on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 11:52:08 AM EST
    better get a settlement quick...I fear rule changes are indeed coming, as mentioned in the link, with the Supreme Court case and all, and it will be easier for the state to invade the sanctity of our homes shortly.

    Parent
    It's easier to ask forgiveness (5.00 / 0) (#147)
    by republicratitarian on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 01:16:59 PM EST
    than permission. The government has a habit of siding with itself in cases like this if you ask me. It'll pretty much end up being that if the police think you are doing something illegal, regardless of where you are, then they'll be justified in doing whatever they want.

    Parent
    Re: Sir William Pitt: (none / 0) (#85)
    by Harry Saxon on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 12:10:03 PM EST

    "The poorest man may, in his cottage, bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown.  It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storms may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter; all his forces dare not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement".

    "When then, my Lords, are all the generous efforts of our ancestors, are all those glorious contentions, by which they meant to secure themselves, and to transmit to their posterity, a known law, a certain rule of living, reduced to this conclusion, that instead of the arbitrary power of a King, we must submit to the arbitrary power of a House of Commons? If this be true, what benefit do we derive from the exchange? Tyranny, my Lords, is detestable in every shape; but in none is it so formidable as where it is assumed and exercised by a number of tyrants. But, my Lords, this is not the fact, this is not the constitution; we have a law of Parliament, we have a code in which every honest man may find it. We have Magna Charta, we have the Statute-book, and we have the Bill of Rights...It is to your ancestors, my Lords, it is to the English barons that we are indebted for the laws and constitution we possess. Their virtues were rude and uncultivated, but they were great and sincere...I think that history has not done justice to their conduct, when they obtained from their Sovereign that great acknowledgment of national rights contained in Magna Charta: they did not confine it to themselves alone, but delivered it as a common blessing to the whole people...A breach has been made in the constitution--the battlements are dismantled--the citadel is open to the first invader--the walls totter--the place is no longer tenable.--What then remains for us but to stand foremost in the breach, to repair it, or to perish in it?...let us consider which we ought to respect most--the representative or the collective body of the people. My Lords, five hundred gentlemen are not ten millions; and, if we must have a contention, let us take care to have the English nation on our side. If this question be given up, the freeholders of England are reduced to a condition baser than the peasantry of Poland...Unlimited power is apt to corrupt the minds of those who possess it; and this I know, my Lords, that where law ends, there tyranny begins. "

    The Rt Hon William Pitt

    Click or Ignore Me

    Parent

    I used the ignore me (4.00 / 3) (#90)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 12:26:05 PM EST
    Would you be willing to take (none / 0) (#140)
    by Harry Saxon on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 01:11:12 PM EST
    a customer service survey the next time you do so?


    Parent
    Re: Tea Party (none / 0) (#188)
    by Harry Saxon on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 11:13:02 PM EST

    "It's political gamesmanship," Humphries, who ran for office himself once, told the Guardian. "The real case is that she [Giffords] had no security whatsoever at this event. So if she lived under a constant fear of being targeted, if she lived under this constant fear of this rhetoric and hatred that was seething, why would she attend an event in full view of the public with no security whatsoever?"

    Trent Humphries, Tuscon Tea Party

    What sensitivity this fellow demonstrates towards Congresswoman Giffords.

    A sterling example to the rest of us.

    Click or Deplore Me.

    Parent

    I just read on FDL that Sara (none / 0) (#3)
    by observed on Sun Jan 16, 2011 at 10:32:25 PM EST
    from TheNextHurrah died. Sad news.

    Duvalier, former dictator, returns to (none / 0) (#4)
    by oculus on Sun Jan 16, 2011 at 10:32:46 PM EST
    Haiti.  LAT

    I saw that about Duvalier. (none / 0) (#8)
    by caseyOR on Sun Jan 16, 2011 at 10:37:08 PM EST
    I cannot for the life of me think of any good that can come out of Baby Doc's return to Haiti.


    Parent
    Sen. Charles Schumer [D-NY] says he will (none / 0) (#7)
    by oculus on Sun Jan 16, 2011 at 10:36:58 PM EST
    ask U.S. military to report to FBI re recruits who fail drug test.  Purpose:  prevent sd. failed recruits from acquiring firearms.  Does this make sense?  No.  LAT

    Strange (none / 0) (#22)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 08:26:15 AM EST
    A warning sign that someone is trying to deal with PTSD is testing positive for illegal drug use.  But it seems like Schumer is advocating singling someone out and punishing them just because they were a soldier.  I can't imagine what he's thinking.  This sounds personal.  I wonder if he didn't have a bad stalker experience at one time with someone who turned out to be ex-military.

    Parent
    It's only for recruits, not veterans (none / 0) (#24)
    by republicratitarian on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 09:15:50 AM EST
    But that would be the next logical step if you work for the Gov. And you are obviously correct about the connection between a positive drug test and dealing with PTSD. I've dealt with PTSD and positive drug tests with my soldiers and we've had to send more than a couple to get psychiatric help because they were a danger to themselves and others. I wonder if a positive drug test is covered under HIPAA laws or the Privacy Act.

    Parent
    In that light it gets more bizarre (none / 0) (#40)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 10:10:03 AM EST
    So you fail a drug test trying to get in the military and that means you are a crazy person seeking weapons training in order to become a terrific killer of innocents?  It's very weird to me, and once again seems blanketed in demonization of military service personalities in an offhanded way.

    Parent
    Just Schumer chest-beating (none / 0) (#186)
    by BackFromOhio on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 08:32:12 PM EST
    To show he's strong on defense, or so he thinks.

    He voted for the infamous Tax Deal.

    Parent

    It is for people who are rejected from joining (none / 0) (#42)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 10:10:41 AM EST
    not for members of the military, which a "recruit" would be.

    Sen. Charles E. Schumer urged the Obama administration on Sunday to require the military to inform the FBI when a prospective enlistee is rejected for excessive drug use, saying such a policy would have prevented suspected Tucson shooter Jared Lee Loughner from buying a weapon.


    Parent
    You think the military will stand for it? (none / 0) (#48)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 10:19:49 AM EST
    It will be interesting to watch if they have anything to say about this if it gets off the ground.  They don't like anything that impedes recruitment and getting to take a look at everyone, yet if they throw a fit about this it looks like they are fine putting weapons in the hands of at risk people :)  And what is "excessive" drug use?  Who measures that and what is the measure of that :)?  Your recruiter :)?  My understanding is that Loughner tested clean for drug use but admitted excessive drug use in the past, is that correct or did I hear wrong the first time?

    Parent
    Once you're in, (none / 0) (#58)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 10:37:46 AM EST
    stay awake pills and xanax can be given if the mission requires.

    HEck, those ineffective and dangerous anthrax vaccines, also.

    I wonder if Schumer wants to test folks for excessive caffiene and alcohol. How about nicotine?

    I love specific words, like 'excessive,' and 'forthwith.' /snk

    Parent

    He would only if it helped (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 12:28:56 PM EST
    get him elected.

    Parent
    Schumer's been elected by (none / 0) (#187)
    by BackFromOhio on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 08:33:31 PM EST
    extremely comfortable majorities. Seems to me he's jockeying for favor from Repubs in Senate?

    Parent
    Given that a failed drug test at (none / 0) (#93)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 12:27:53 PM EST
    recruitment keeps you out today I don't think it makes much difference.

    Parent
    yeah, just kind of a double standard. (none / 0) (#97)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 12:32:10 PM EST
    OT, looking into dancing lessons. No techno... 45 minutes of that and call the coroner!

    Parent
    Makes sense... (none / 0) (#23)
    by kdog on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 08:30:12 AM EST
    for Chuckie "Get outta my way there is a camera over there!" Schumer.

    But as sound civil liberty friendly policy?  of course it makes no sense...the right to bear arms is not subject to urine analysis, case closed.

    Parent

    When was the last time anything came from (none / 0) (#25)
    by republicratitarian on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 09:18:54 AM EST
    Washington that was "sound civil liberty friendly policy"?

    Parent
    Touche.... (none / 0) (#26)
    by kdog on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 09:31:10 AM EST
    Chuckie likes to push the envelope though.

    Need I start worrying that Chase will pass a little urine sample cup through the bulletproof glass as well as the fingerprint ink pad so I can cash my freakin' paycheck?  DC and the statehouses remind me of R. Kelly with the bodily waste fetish.

    Parent

    I'll send you a clean sample just in case :) (none / 0) (#30)
    by republicratitarian on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 09:44:15 AM EST
    But not in an R. Kelly kind of way.

    Parent
    that's a relief. (none / 0) (#32)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 09:50:18 AM EST
    Too much information, but a relief.

    Parent
    That's a relief? no pun intended right? :) (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by republicratitarian on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 11:01:41 AM EST
    You're a good egg:)... (none / 0) (#34)
    by kdog on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 09:54:29 AM EST
    For an outfit that should be encouraging the population to disarm, sometimes they make me feel like a major sucker for being anti-gun.

    They do their damndest to make the survivalist militia loons look sane, I swear...."clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right."

    Parent

    My poor husband just had to take (none / 0) (#43)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 10:12:31 AM EST
    "the test" this week.  He woke up that morning, and he's getting older, so he was hopping from one foot to other doing the I gotta pee dance getting dressed and trying to get on the post and get this test done with.

    Parent
    Just don't let him drink too much water... (none / 0) (#49)
    by kdog on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 10:20:20 AM EST
    they hit ya with the "negative/diluted" and make ya take it again.

    Parent
    :) He must be in leadership.

    Parent
    Define leadership :) (5.00 / 1) (#185)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 07:28:07 PM EST
    Yeah... (none / 0) (#132)
    by kdog on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 01:07:03 PM EST
    and my friends in the postal service, sanitation dept., and driving trucks for UPS/Fedex ain't supposed to know when p&ss day is either...luckily where there is a will to live free, there is a way...and there is some sympathy for liberty to be found amongst management.

    A shame such a charade must be played is all, and people's livelyhoods hang in the balance of a charade.

    Parent

    When someone in management (none / 0) (#139)
    by CoralGables on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 01:10:53 PM EST
    has a need to hold onto a valued employee, they will go out of their way to trick their own system.
    (speaking from experience for me only)

    Parent
    Civil liberties? (none / 0) (#59)
    by KeysDan on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 10:47:13 AM EST
    Senator Schumer is working on the civil part, the liberty component will just have to wait along with Godot.  Schumer asked Senator Tom Coburn (R. Ok) to sit with him during the State of the Union to show civility.  My guess is that the overheating of those cameras will only be surpassed by the overheated "lets all get along" by the media bloviators.

    Holding all applause until the end of the president's speech with all then rising in polite acknowledgment would never do, since the cameras need to repeatedly zero in on those standing and those sitting on their hands. Moreover, the number of applauses for each gem that falls from the president's mouth needs to be registered. Although, I expect that all those comments to cut social programs so as to tighten our belts just like all households, will receive bipartisan applause.

    Parent

    Waiting "for," not "with," (none / 0) (#162)
    by oculus on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 01:37:00 PM EST
    Godot.

    Parent
    Thanks, the (5.00 / 1) (#177)
    by KeysDan on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 03:28:14 PM EST
     meaning was to be: ...... along with (waiting for) Godot.

    Parent
    Nope, it makes no sense at all (none / 0) (#73)
    by ruffian on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 11:48:31 AM EST
    Designing a law and giving the FBI even more data on people just to fit one particular ( past) case. Ugh.

    What's next, the teenagers buying trench coats act

    Parent

    kdog (none / 0) (#9)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Jan 16, 2011 at 11:21:21 PM EST
    J-E-T-S! JETS! JETS! JETS!

    3 1/2 -1 on the money line.

    Cashed that ticket.


    YO! (none / 0) (#15)
    by nycstray on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 12:43:24 AM EST
    there are others here besides kdog that say
    J-E-T-S! JETS! JETS! JETS!
     {grin}

    enjoy yer "ticket"!!!  :)

    Parent

    Hey, another team won today, too. (none / 0) (#17)
    by caseyOR on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 01:36:44 AM EST
    YEAH, BEARS!!!

    Parent
    I was all in for da Bears!~ (none / 0) (#18)
    by nycstray on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 02:39:39 AM EST
    Oy, could we be hittin' a head2head in a couple weeks?!

    I'm thinking we have some good games next Sunday.

    Parent

    Yes! They sure looked good. (none / 0) (#112)
    by ruffian on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 12:50:35 PM EST
    Bring on the Pack!

    Parent
    I'm just the most obnoxious:)..n/t (none / 0) (#20)
    by kdog on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 08:12:02 AM EST
    Ooh kdog, if it's Bears v Jets in the SB (none / 0) (#75)
    by ruffian on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 11:50:49 AM EST
    We will have to place some drink wagers for February!

    Parent
    How about sending your cell no. (none / 0) (#86)
    by oculus on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 12:22:38 PM EST
    to kdog's e-mail (see Talk Left "info").  He's got mine.  

    Parent
    Cool - will do. (none / 0) (#114)
    by ruffian on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 12:51:27 PM EST
    kdog volunteered to check out places (none / 0) (#116)
    by oculus on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 12:53:17 PM EST
    in the vicinity of BAM for a pre-show lunch/meet up.

    Parent
    Perfect! So nice to have it to look to (none / 0) (#142)
    by ruffian on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 01:12:36 PM EST
    My roundabout ticket came over the weekend. Still siting forth BAM ticket.

    Parent
    The BAM tickets I bought via phone haven't (none / 0) (#146)
    by oculus on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 01:16:30 PM EST
    shown up yet either.  Did you find a hotel?

    Parent
    Have not chosen yet (none / 0) (#155)
    by ruffian on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 01:24:39 PM EST
    There seemed to be plenty of good deals to be had. I'm looking on hotwire.com in the broadway area. Any known bed bug plagued places I should avoid? That was going to be my next bit of research on trip advisor.

    Parent
    I haven't researched the bedbug issue. (none / 0) (#167)
    by oculus on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 01:44:13 PM EST
    I stayed at W & J on 51st between 8th and 9th in Dec. and have stayed there in the past--no bedbugs so far.  But their single room rate is kind of high now.  May go down.

    Parent
    I always read that the best deals can be had (none / 0) (#172)
    by ruffian on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 01:52:16 PM EST
    last minute, but I'm too much of a nervous nelly to wait that long. Will decide soon.  I like hotel shopping actually- I was looking at some of those new boutique hotels but fear I am way too unhip to pull that off.

    Parent
    Hilton on Ave. of the Americas (none / 0) (#173)
    by oculus on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 01:53:54 PM EST
    had an excellent single room rate last week--only $20 more than closet-sized room at W & J.

    Parent
    That's a bet... (none / 0) (#138)
    by kdog on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 01:10:43 PM EST
    conference championships permitting, we've each got a formidable opponent to get past first...Rodgers played out his mind, but Cutler looked good too.  Classic NFC Norris Division contest, supercharged playoff edition.  

    Parent
    Yeah, it worries me (none / 0) (#176)
    by ruffian on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 02:46:57 PM EST
    Nationally televised Bears-Packers showdowns rarely end well for the Bears.

    Parent
    Fortune favors the bold... (none / 0) (#21)
    by kdog on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 08:17:17 AM EST
    that was a bold bet my friend.

    Had to check ESPN first thing to make sure I didn't dream it all...no matter what happens next week, one and done-ing the mighty Pats will be one to cherish for a long time.  

    To quote Sexy Rexy..."Same old Jets, going back to the AFC Championship game."  How sweet it is!

    Parent

    I just love it when (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by smott on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 09:35:53 AM EST
    Hubris comes back to bite the coach in the nads. Such as the botched fake punt....

    Buh-Bye Belichek ya big CHEATER!! You and your NE Asterisks enjoy the off-season!!

    Meanwhile GO STEELERS!!!

    Parent

    The botched fake punt... (none / 0) (#38)
    by kdog on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 10:08:43 AM EST
    was the turning point in the game I thought...a sign of panic from the Pats, and way too soon to panic and gamble.

    Parent
    Belichick (none / 0) (#45)
    by CoralGables on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 10:14:36 AM EST
    doesn't gamble, he invests in the odds. On that play however it appears it was an audible called on the field of play by Patrick Chung. Dropping the snap doomed the play.

    Parent
    Call it gambling or (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by brodie on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 10:53:44 AM EST
    smartly playing the odds, the fact that Bellachick tends to try plays like that or tends to often go for it on 4th down is one of the things that I actually like about that guy.  Not your typical ultraconservative NFL coach, and at times very entertaining from this football fan's perspective.

    But I think the turning point probably was the way the Jets' defense confused the Pats and really got after Brady consistently, a few times hitting him hard, and seemed to unsettle him just enough to take him out of his usual machine-like precise and calm rhythm.  Very unusual to see Brady having to worry about the pass rush or at other times having to worry about being picked.

    And with all that, and down a couple of scores, then only one, darn if the Pats didn't almost set themselves up for a nailbiter final drive in the last 30 secs with that nearly successful onside kick, which the Jets had to play perfectly themselves in order to avoid catastrophe.  Credit the Pats for not quitting and almost coming all the way back.

    Parent

    yup (none / 0) (#62)
    by CST on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 11:00:26 AM EST
    belicheck gambles a lot more than you'd think for a "conservative" coach.  And yea, I love that about them, makes it fun to watch.  I liked that call, had they made it, they might've won, and by then, they really shouldn't have won...

    This game was lost on the o-line, which is shocking for this team.  5 sacks says it all to me.  After that, Brady made some bad throws, key dropped passes, they never got moving.  That will happen when you keep getting hit.  Combine that with the early pick and the offense struggled all game.

    I like that they kept fighting, I think that was big as this is also a young team.  They should be back next year, and they need something to build on.

    Parent

    Most coaches are too conservative... (none / 0) (#68)
    by kdog on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 11:16:47 AM EST
    and punt too often, to keep the margin of defeat down...I just thought it was way too early, and the game still too close, to attempt a fake punt in your own territory, at home, in the playoffs.  Reeked of a desperation play.

    Hindsight is 20/20 though, if it works and the Pats score its genius.

    Parent

    It was very impressive (none / 0) (#69)
    by brodie on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 11:17:05 AM EST
    seeing the Pats execute to near perfection not one but two onside kicks.  The first fortuitously for the Jets squirted out into the Jets' hands, the second one, another kick with just the right pace and distance, the Jets player fielded squarely and tucked away quickly, which doesn't always happen on those crazy plays.

    As for Brady, the key to this team's success, he's got at least another 5 yrs in him, provided he isn't knocked around from game to game as he was yesterday.  So, yeah, with plenty of youth surrounding him, the Pats are going to continue to be a high quality team.

    Parent

    The Pats kicker... (none / 0) (#70)
    by Dadler on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 11:36:36 AM EST
    ...could've dived right in there and gotten that first onside kick, but he just stood there and looked down at it.  Unless I'm wrong and kicker can't recover an onside dribbler.

    Parent
    It was funny - (none / 0) (#149)
    by smott on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 01:17:21 PM EST
    They did not seem to blitz that much, just went for zone D and got coverage sacks.

    But no question that Tommy Dreamboat is not the same QB once he gets his uniform dirty. You absolutely have to put him down a few times.

    Parent

    Ya think... (none / 0) (#50)
    by kdog on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 10:23:09 AM EST
    sounds downright un-Belicheck to give anybody but Tom Bundchen that kind of liberty.

    If true, sucks to be Pat Chung right now!

    Parent

    The papers today... (none / 0) (#143)
    by kdog on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 01:13:32 PM EST
    say Belicheck was mum about the botched fake post-game, fellow Pats players are throwing Chung under the bus.

    Sounds sketchy to me...I would think green light special teams audibles go out the window come playoff time, especially on a Belicheck team.

    Parent

    Yes, congrats to kdog (none / 0) (#72)
    by lilburro on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 11:48:26 AM EST
    I'm a Jets fan for the rest of the playoffs (since the Eagles got knocked out, which, grr, who knows how far they could've gone, the NFC playoffs have been weird).  I don't like the Patriots anyway but it does make me laugh that the Jets won after all that smack talk...I thought Welker crossed the line by involving Ryan's wife and whatever Ryan may like to do off the field.

    Parent
    I though Welker's... (none / 0) (#78)
    by kdog on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 12:00:17 PM EST
    foot jokes were hysterical actually, that dude can deadpan...and I think Rex can dish it and take it...all in good fun, imo.  He didn't break the story...our tabloid media did.

    My question is, did Welker even play yesterday? Regardless, he's the one with foot in mouth now:)

    Parent

    Meh (none / 0) (#82)
    by lilburro on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 12:03:35 PM EST
    it's funny that the Patriots were attempting to be "the bigger team" and Welker ended up sounding like a bigger jack@ss than all the Jets combined (to me anyway).  I do love some smack talk though >:D

    Parent
    Isn't the smack-talkin team supposed (none / 0) (#89)
    by oculus on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 12:24:02 PM EST
    to lose?  

    Parent
    Only if the stoic team... (none / 0) (#113)
    by kdog on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 12:51:07 PM EST
    gets amped up and silences them...which did not happen, this time...Rex and the boys' mouth wrote a check their arses could cash.

    Parent
    The New York Post (none / 0) (#84)
    by CoralGables on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 12:09:30 PM EST
    appeared to have a little fun with it too based on their Front Page Yesterday

    Parent
    GO STEELERS! (none / 0) (#88)
    by jbindc on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 12:23:35 PM EST
    Rather surprising the fact the parents (none / 0) (#13)
    by oculus on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 12:15:17 AM EST
    of the young Tucson victim donating her organs hasn't generated more attention.  

    I had never (none / 0) (#39)
    by CoralGables on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 10:09:39 AM EST
    been listed as a donor until I met a wonderful person that is a kidney transplant patient. It felt good standing in the line at the Dept of Motor Vehicles for a change knowing it was time for me to make a change.

    Parent
    Met a woman... (none / 0) (#178)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 04:18:00 PM EST
    ...at the lab this morning who was getting worked up to donate a kidney to her sister.  Sudden failure without any real explanation and suffering through the horrors of dialysis.  We had a nice chat and I wished her the best of luck for both of them and thanked her for her sacrifice.  

    The best gift one can give--especially to your sibling.  

    Parent

    50 Herbert Hoovers (none / 0) (#14)
    by andgarden on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 12:36:16 AM EST
    remembering 1968 (none / 0) (#41)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 10:10:31 AM EST
    and how things could have been different.

    Would have been (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by brodie on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 10:31:40 AM EST
    very interesting if things had been allowed to play out w/o the assassinations.  

    MLK was planning a major Poor People's Campaign march to Washington to demand Congress act on economic justice issues and poverty.  They were going to camp out there en masse and try to embarrass the pols into having no choice but to address their proposals.  This idea (originally proposed by RFK) greatly upset LBJ, who saw it as a mortal threat to the survival of his presidency.  I believe he might have expressed some security concerns to friend J. Edgar Hoover ...

    And RFK of course might well have gone on to compete against Nixon, making that the second Nixon vs Kennedy presidential race of the decade.  Top MLK aides who spoke with Dr King in his final days said he was planning on working for Kennedy's election that year.

    Parent

    David Lynch (none / 0) (#57)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 10:36:13 AM EST
    its all hands on deck (none / 0) (#66)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 11:06:46 AM EST
    And this (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 12:39:53 PM EST
    is the person that Obama wants to emulate?

    Parent
    A friend of my mother's... (none / 0) (#71)
    by Dadler on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 11:38:09 AM EST
    ...was a secret service agent in the WH during Reagan's entire two terms, and he says Ronnie was mentally addled from the go, could NEVER remember anyone's name or anything else.

    Parent
    this is a disaster (5.00 / 2) (#74)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 11:49:12 AM EST
    for the Reagan worshipers.  they even had Rons older brother come out and say Ron was an embarrassment to his father when he was alive and now he is an embarrassment to his mother.

    starting to have a good deal of respect for the younger Ron Reagan.


    Parent

    I thought r jr. was a compelling (none / 0) (#77)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 11:54:15 AM EST
     host on political programs. Of course, I agreed with much of what he said.

    Parent
    how long till the (none / 0) (#108)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 12:45:53 PM EST
    gay slurs come out?

    Parent
    I expect them any time. (none / 0) (#111)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 12:48:55 PM EST
    I won't even examine some blogs for some days. I don't want to upset myself. I try to keep an eye on some hate sites, the local hate groups... kind of important when you're an unabashed liberal on Sand Mountain Alabama.

    Parent
    Oh yeah, that will ease a ruckus (none / 0) (#80)
    by ruffian on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 12:00:49 PM EST
    Of course it was what many of us suspected. with the advances made in diagnosis non the intervening years maybe now  he would have been officially diagnosed. Ron Jr. seems to make no claim that doctors thought he had Alzheimers at the time, just his own personal observations.

    Interesting.....

    I'm not sure he would have been any better a president at the top of his game.

    Parent

    Raise a ruckus. Dang spellcheck (none / 0) (#81)
    by ruffian on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 12:01:14 PM EST
    what we need is (none / 0) (#104)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 12:41:42 PM EST
    "thought check" or maybe "brain check"

    Parent
    Yeah (none / 0) (#83)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 12:08:52 PM EST
    they are in full bore about this. Anyone who has dealt with Alzheimer's in their family knows that most of the times, especially back then, that people went undiagnosed until they had been suffering from the symptoms for quite a while.

    These Reagan worshipers remind me of the Communists that used to March around on Red Day or whatever it was around the preserved body of a former leader. (Sorry not good at all with Russian history).

    Parent

    Lenin. (5.00 / 2) (#91)
    by oculus on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 12:26:25 PM EST
    Faster typist (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by Zorba on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 12:28:38 PM EST
    wins!  Blue ribbon to oculus.  ;-)

    Parent
    Thanks (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 12:35:29 PM EST
    I knew there were people around here who knew the name!

    Parent
    Vladimir (5.00 / 2) (#92)
    by Zorba on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 12:27:41 PM EST
    Lenin.  You can still go see his body at his mausoleum in Red Square, if you wish to.  

    Parent
    and if they had their way (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 12:31:20 PM EST
    we would also be able view Reagans wax effigy.

    Parent
    Yep (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 12:36:33 PM EST
    that's the point I was trying to make.

    Parent
    I would equate the love of Reagan (none / 0) (#106)
    by Slado on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 12:44:31 PM EST
    by the right to the love of JFK by the left.

    Or maybe FDR.

    Either way belittling and criticizing Reagan however fair does not belittle his historical significance and the lame attempts by his critics to do so always fall short.

    He brought the country back from recession and defeated the Soviet union.   Historical facts are hard to belittle and his legacy will live on forever.

    Obama doesn't try to emulate him for no reason.

    Parent

    he gave birth to the republican (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 12:53:43 PM EST
    love of the unpaid for tax cut, starting our slide into the financial position of a third world country, and happened to be stumbling around the white house when the Soviet Union imploded.

    his legacy will live forever indeed.

    Parent

    When I think Reagan I immed. think (5.00 / 1) (#128)
    by oculus on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 01:05:36 PM EST
    Iran-Contra:  PBS

    Parent
    Another question: (none / 0) (#180)
    by jondee on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 04:39:17 PM EST
    did Reagan create the Religious Right, the way he Davey Crockett-Paul Bunyan-like "defeated the Soviet Union", or did he just go along for the ride while Creationists, Rapturists, and Planned Parenthood snipers installed themselves as an integral part of the Republican coalition starting in the late seventies, early eighties?

    Parent
    Really (5.00 / 1) (#124)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 01:01:20 PM EST
    you can't compare JFK since he was assassinated.

    If those facts are so strong, then why is the right trying so hard to undermine Ron Jr.? It seemed if they truly believe what you were saying then they would be silent and let the facts as you say stand where they are. Obviously even they don't believe that he did all of that if they are trying to destroy his son.

    When you build a legacy based on lies, this is what happens. There is a whole myth about Reagan that is built on lies so therefore the truth teller must be destroyed.

    Parent

    Revisionism? (5.00 / 1) (#157)
    by christinep on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 01:28:17 PM EST
    "...defeated the Soviet Union." I suppose that we all pick our historians...that agree with us. Yet, there does seem to be factual support (um, my understatement) for the conclusion that the Soviet Union was already undone by a number of things by the time Ronald Reagan approached the wall. The reality included a costly war in Afghanistan that not only dragged on, but cost a large number of Soviet military lives; that previous misadventure in Afghanistan topped a pattern of $$ costly military incursions in then Czechoslovakia, Hungary, and the long stay in Poland; the Polish situation--in fact--spawned the leadership of Lech Walesa and Solidarnosc which further weakened the Soviets on their doorstep; and, most certainly, the spiritual and astute practical/political leadership of Pope John Paul II, a direct & successful challenge to Soviet authority both at home and internationally.

    Not to take away from Ronald Reagan's address at the Wall--a timely political gesture, of course--but history shows a gradual economic & military undermining of the Soviet system for years prior to the culminating events circa 1989-90.

    Parent

    hmmmm (5.00 / 1) (#158)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 01:31:07 PM EST
    why does this sound familiar?

    reality included a costly war in Afghanistan that not only dragged on, but cost a large number of Soviet military lives; that previous misadventure in Afghanistan topped a pattern of $$ costly military incursions


    Parent
    Answers: (5.00 / 1) (#163)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 01:38:04 PM EST
    a) beginning of the decline of Alexander

    b) beginning of the decline of British Empire

    C) beginning of the decline of the Soviet Union

    D) beginning of the decline of toast as a breakfast food

    E) none of the above.

    Correlation isn't causation.  My knee hurt yesterday, so I knew I'd have a fantastic date. Last time my knee hurt on a date, it was fantastic.

    Parent

    still (none / 0) (#169)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 01:47:49 PM EST
    interesting that we now find ourselves bogged down there and financially circling the drain

    Parent
    Other factors (added to post # 157) (5.00 / 2) (#174)
    by Politalkix on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 02:24:38 PM EST
    Chernobyl, Glasnost, Perestroika, Gorbachev, nationalistic forces in former Soviet Republics (especially the Baltic states of Latvia, Lithunia and Estonia).

    Parent
    Thank you, Politalkix (none / 0) (#175)
    by christinep on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 02:32:45 PM EST
    It sure would be interesting to know what History will say about the demise of the Soviet system...after the political groupings of the 20th and early 20st centuries with their associated hero-worship have passed (and are, indeed, History?)

    Parent
    Slado, I think the effort to create a (none / 0) (#115)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 12:51:39 PM EST
    public, publically funded cult of personality around Reagan far exceeds a comparison to FDR... toward Kennedy in the early 70's yeah... sort of. Some parallels there without a doubt.

    Parent
    you wont see honesty (none / 0) (#120)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 12:55:31 PM EST
    like this about Reagan anytime soon:

    JFK's own dirty trick

    By Mark Feldstein
    Friday, January 14, 2011

    Fifty years ago next week, Richard Nixon stood uncomfortably on the Capitol's inaugural platform and watched his rival John F. Kennedy being sworn in as president. "We won" the election, Nixon fumed, "but they stole it from us."

    Indeed, the dirty tricks that helped defeat Nixon were more devious than merely the ballot-stuffing of political lore. In one of the least-known chapters of 20th-century political history, Kennedy operatives secretly paid off an informant and set in motion a Watergate-like burglary that sabotaged Nixon's campaign on the eve of the election.



    Parent
    First I've heard of that (none / 0) (#160)
    by brodie on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 01:34:18 PM EST
    election story and I'm a little skeptical.  Lots of large-sized assertions and insinuations, and not all of them may have a basis in fact.  Though it's no secret then or now that campaigns do oppo research and will find a way to get out the info if the press doesn't.  Important to check on this author's sourcing, especially for stories coming out a half century after the fact, and when, conveniently, all the principles are deceased and so anything can be asserted or alleged with legal impunity.

    Parent
    Defeated the Soviet Union? (none / 0) (#151)
    by kdog on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 01:17:43 PM EST
    Blue jeans & rock-n-roll did more to topple the USSR than Reagan and his drunken defense spending, that set the tone for the massive debt we've been in ever since.

    I fear the history books may end up saying Reaganomics toppled the USofA.

    Parent

    Reagan defeated the Soviet Union? (none / 0) (#154)
    by Politalkix on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 01:24:23 PM EST
    I always believed that it was Sylvester Stallone and James Bond!
    Snark.


    Parent
    Yeah. Reagan did it. (5.00 / 0) (#161)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 01:34:23 PM EST
    Don't you know that Truman, Ike, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, and Carter were appeasers?

    it was 'only' Reagan. It's such a crock that the surface economic and geopolitical evidence in reputable scholarship mention his role, but not that he suddenly made the USSR think, "gee."

    Post hoc ergo procter hoc. "After this, therefore because of this."

    So really, it was the '86 Mets world series victory that did it.

    Parent

    This book didn't credit Reagan. (none / 0) (#164)
    by oculus on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 01:39:55 PM EST
    An interesting read:

    Uncivil Society: 1989 and the Implosion of the Communist Establishment
    by Stephen Kotkin, with a contributionby Jan T. Gross
    Modern Library, 197 pp., $24.00


    Parent
    Amazon/library time again. (none / 0) (#170)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 01:48:33 PM EST
    I wasn't so much trying to quote the book as much as mention a commonly-held, but factually incorrect, belief.

    Keep me straight today!

    Parent

    I know. Just thought you might (none / 0) (#171)
    by oculus on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 01:50:57 PM EST
    be interested in reading this book.  

    Parent
    It always slays me that the same (none / 0) (#166)
    by ruffian on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 01:41:56 PM EST
    people who were so sure communism is a terrible policy argue that it needed a superman American president to make it fail. Their proper response should have been 'yawn, told ya so'

    Parent
    but he was so damn telegenic (none / 0) (#168)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 01:46:29 PM EST
    he MUST have had something to do with it


    Parent
    I'll let Nancy do the talking... (none / 0) (#103)
    by Slado on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 12:40:45 PM EST
    We believe Ron has written a wonderfully warm and engaging book about life with his father, Ronald Reagan," the foundation said. "It offers a tribute that only a son could present. As for the topic of Alzheimer's, this subject has been well documented over the years by both President Reagan's personal physicians, physicians who treated him after the diagnosis, as well as those who worked closely with him daily. All are consistent in their view that signs of Alzheimer's did not appear until well after President Reagan left the White House


    Parent
    certainly she would (5.00 / 0) (#105)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 12:44:13 PM EST
    have no reason I can think of to fudge the facts.

    (snark)

    Parent

    Neither would the son or your right? (none / 0) (#107)
    by Slado on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 12:45:26 PM EST
    (double snark)

    Parent
    why (none / 0) (#109)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 12:46:45 PM EST
    would Ron Reagan lie?

    seriously.

    we all know why Nancy would.  why would Ron.

    Parent

    1988 tests are the (none / 0) (#118)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 12:54:27 PM EST
    same ones used today. Back in 88, at the end of Reagan's term, people just got 'old' and 'forgetful,' because there was little understanding of medical aging, compared to what has been discovered over the past 20 odd years.

    Parent
    ^^Should be a question mark at the end of the (none / 0) (#121)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 12:55:37 PM EST
    first sentence.

    Parent
    Is there an accurate diagnosis (none / 0) (#131)
    by oculus on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 01:06:48 PM EST
    now for onset of Alzheimers?  Isn't confirmation limited to autopsy?

    Parent
    There are new non-intrusive (5.00 / 2) (#165)
    by Harry Saxon on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 01:41:34 PM EST
    technologies available just recently:

    Imaging

    When available as a diagnostic tool, single photon emission computed tomography (SPECT) and positron emission tomography (PET) neuroimaging are used to confirm a diagnosis of Alzheimer's in conjunction with evaluations involving mental status examination.[97] In a person already having dementia, SPECT appears to be superior in differentiating Alzheimer's disease from other possible causes, compared with the usual attempts employing mental testing and medical history analysis.[98] Advances have led to the proposal of new diagnostic criteria.[5][81]

    A new technique known as PiB PET has been developed for directly and clearly imaging beta-amyloid deposits in vivo using a tracer that binds selectively to the A-beta deposits.[99] The PiB-PET compound uses carbon-11 PET scanning. Recent studies suggest that PiB-PET is 86% accurate in predicting which people with mild cognitive impairment will develop Alzheimer's disease within two years, and 92% accurate in ruling out the likelihood of developing Alzheimer's.[100]

    A similar PET scanning radiopharmaceutical compound called (E)-4-(2-(6-(2-(2-(2-([18F]-fluoroethoxy)ethoxy)ethoxy)pyridin-3-yl)vinyl)-N-methyl benzenamine, or 18F AV-45, or florbetapir-fluorine-18, or simply florbetapir, contains the longer-lasting radionuclide fluorine-18, has recently been created, and tested as a possible diagnostic tool in Alzheimer's patients.[101][102][103][104] Florbetapir, like PiB, binds to beta-amyloid, but due to its use of fluorine-18 has a half-life of 110 minutes, in contrast to PiB's radioactive half life of 20 minutes. Wong et al. found that the longer life allowed the tracer to accumulate significantly more in the brains of the AD patients, particularly in the regions known to be associated with beta-amyloid deposits.[104]

    One review predicted that amyloid imaging is likely to be used in conjunction with other markers rather than as an alternative.[105]

    Volumetric MRI can detect changes in the size of brain regions. Measuring those regions that atrophy during the progress of Alzheimer's disease is showing promise as a diagnostic indicator. It may prove less expensive than other imaging methods currently under study.[106]

    Click or Snark Me

    You need an active nuclear reactor nearby to use PET,BTW.

    I'm sure they'll have a reliable biochemical marker for confirmation sooner or later.

    Parent

    Tests for Alzheimers and for (none / 0) (#144)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 01:14:15 PM EST
     foreign body dementia exist... going through end issues with my dad.

    Parent
    The real issue here like so many other (none / 0) (#129)
    by Slado on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 01:05:51 PM EST
    issues is it's impossible to prove Ron wrong.   He is suggesting that the early tests aren't as good as the ones today so it could have been missed.

    Does he have proof? No.  Can we prove him wrong? No.  Could he be right? Yes.  Could he be wrong? No.

    So in the court of public opinion since we don't have a choice we must allowed non expert testimony to a historical matter with no proof and no way to disprove it.

    Now what to do?   His father was old.  He probably was losing some mental capacity as all elderly people would.  Does that mean he had Alzheimers?  No.  Does it mean he didn't?  No.

    Does it even matter?  No.

    To me this is a cynical ploy by a disillusioned son to discredit his fathers legacy.

    What is so pitiful about the whole matter is it will convince no one.  His critics or his fans.

    They will use this allegation to bolster their own beliefs, as played out here, and move on to the next sound bite.

    Parent

    I don't think he's lying (none / 0) (#122)
    by Slado on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 12:58:22 PM EST
    I think he is suggesting the possibility of some sort of early onset to sell books.

    Even though his suggestions aren't backed by any facts or expertise other then his own "sense".

    We don't know Ron and we didn't know Ronald so we have no idea what sort of family drama they had and what would motivate a son to suggest such a thing if it wasn't true or what would cause him to reveal such a thing if it was.

    From what I've seen the majority of this book is about their relationship.   What's the point of even putting this in there other then to create a media item to sell books?

    Since I don't know either person and can't possibly know their motives I will side with the facts which in this case are the doctors and the hospital records that seem to indicate Ron is making this up to sell books.

    Why he'd do it?  He may have convinced himself that this is the truth but I con only wonder if there are deep issues between his dad and him that have motivated him to do many things in his life that always seem to be a direct reaction to his fathers legacy.

    Parent

    I see you (5.00 / 0) (#126)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 01:03:59 PM EST
    have the talking points down.  as usual.

    Parent
    People (5.00 / 1) (#130)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 01:06:41 PM EST
    who have family members with this horrible disease know the signs were there many years before they got an actual diagnosis. Read about Rita Hayworth. She didn't get a diagnosis until she was well into Alzheimer's.

    Maybe Ron wrote a book because he wanted to truth to be known? I mean we all love our family members warts and all. I'm sure he felt no differently than most but when you build a "legacy" based on secrets and lies like Nancy has apparently done, the truth will come out sooner or later. It always does and sometimes not in the best ways or at the best times.

    Parent

    Maybe Ron wrote the book to make (none / 0) (#134)
    by oculus on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 01:08:22 PM EST
    money?  

    Parent
    I am fairly sure he did (none / 0) (#141)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 01:11:16 PM EST
    but why open yourself up to the kind of broadside he surly knew would be coming by lying?

    Parent
    Heck, I'm sure Ron wrote the book (none / 0) (#148)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 01:17:21 PM EST
    to lose money and be excoriated by a. significant portion of the population.

    after all, isn't that the american dream? no respect, no money, plutocracy ranged against you and your 'kind'?

    Oh no, that's the reality.

    Parent

    LAT Sunday book review didn't (none / 0) (#152)
    by oculus on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 01:19:47 PM EST
    emphasize the Alzheimers statements:  LAT  

    More of a, why didn't my Dad pay more attention to me, overview.

    Parent

    Your are guilty of using your own (none / 0) (#150)
    by Slado on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 01:17:38 PM EST
    moral values to judge the actions of others.

    Never underestimate or overestimate the morals of your fellow man.

    You will constantly be surprised either way.

    Honestly, to your point I think in his own mind he feels he's doing the right thing.

    IMHO I think his intentions are misguided.

    Parent

    True (none / 0) (#145)
    by Slado on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 01:15:11 PM EST
    but the facts as we know them say he was diagnosed in 1994.

    that is 5-6 years after he left the White House.

    So that is several years for Alzheimers to start setting in.

    Now we are just speculating and as I've said so is Ron since he is writing this book 20 years later and quoting only his personal memory and no facts.

    Either way it probably doesn't matter.   Even if it was starting to set in it was only in the waning lame duck parts of his presidency.  Quite frankly I'd like nothing more then to use that as an excuse for Iran Contra.  In my mind the only bad part of his presidency.

    Parent

    Actually (5.00 / 1) (#156)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 01:24:43 PM EST
    back then it usually started 10 years before diagnosis and many times much earlier. He definitely appeared to have Alzheimer's in 1984 and perhaps the assassination attempt made it come on earlier and much stronger.

    Parent
    Where do you get 1984? (none / 0) (#181)
    by Slado on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 05:12:04 PM EST
    I will concede that it's possible that it could have started in his presidency.

    However to just act as if 1984 is fact is just wishful thinking.

    We will never know.

    I would say it doesn't matter.  He was of sound enough mind to defeat the Soviet Union.

    That's enough for me.

    Parent

    And if you (5.00 / 0) (#184)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 06:44:56 PM EST
    really want to get into who won the cold war and it be one person then you really should credit John Kennedy. He's the only president we've had that actually had to FACE them down during the Cuban Missile Crisis. A friend of mine who's a miliary expert said that's when the cold war was won because the Soviets backed down and we knew they weren't going to do anything. They never came face to face with us again did they? I know that conservatives like to cling to their myths because heaven knows they don't seem to really have anything else to cling to politically. The world is leaving them behind and they are still stuck in the cold war.

    Parent
    No, (none / 0) (#183)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 06:36:00 PM EST
    I'm talking about it showing up in the Presidential debate. Definitely showing signs of Alzheimer's in that case.

    Parent
    No snark or sarcasm in this reply, (none / 0) (#153)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 01:19:49 PM EST
    Slado... Alsheimers and other brain-changing disorders usually aren't sudden onset, and the sufferer more than likely had the disease for years before the symptoms got too obvious to ignore.

    PErsonal experience has led me to a lot of investigation on this one.

    Sorry for the snooty reply earlier, you deserved better.


    Parent

    and while we are on the subject (none / 0) (#127)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 01:05:12 PM EST
    why would he lie about his father having brain surgery?  all the "doctors and persons of note" contradict that one too.

    Parent
    Why is the burden of proof in your mind (none / 0) (#133)
    by Slado on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 01:07:58 PM EST
    not on Ron since the facts don't back up his accusation?

    It is an amazingly low burden of proof you've set forth for Ron.

    I suppose you believe GW took down the twin towers as well.

    Talking points?  Don't you mean facts?

    Parent

    this (none / 0) (#137)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 01:09:37 PM EST
    Besides playing amateur doctor, Ron Reagan reveals, if true, brain surgery on his dad never before reported. He accurately reports that Reagan, after leaving the presidency, was bucked from a horse on July 4, 1989, while in Mexico. Ron tells of how his dad, after initially refusing medical help, was transported to a San Diego hospital. "Surgeons opening his skull to relieve pressure on the brain emerged from the operating room with the news that they had detected what they took to be probable signs of Alzheimer's disease." Several Reagan associates, however, say there was no surgery in San Diego.

    What's more there is no reporting about any San Diego operation on Reagan. News reports at the time of his fall say Reagan was flown to a hospital in Arizona, where he was treated for scrapes and bruises and released after five hours...



    Parent
    there's something to be said for hindsight (none / 0) (#159)
    by nycstray on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 01:32:43 PM EST
    in situations like this. My mom is now realizing how long my Dad wasn't as functional mentally as she thought he was at the time. It def predates his diagnosis.

    Parent
    near Darwin winner (none / 0) (#99)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 12:34:23 PM EST
    Grenades Used As Bookends Blown Up In Neighborhood

    When deputies arrived in the DeLand neighborhood, they found the man, who told them he had pulled the pin on the grenade, put the pin back and placed the grenade outside.

    The man told deputies his neighbor had a second grenade.

    That woman told Local 6 the grenades belonged to her deceased husband, who fought in World War II, and were used as bookends for several years.