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Tuesday Afternoon Open Thread

I have a confession to make - outside of a few races - Boxer, Feingold, Grijalva, Joe Garcia, Blumenthal, Eric Schneiderman- I really am not very engaged in this election. Part of it is I think the cake is baked. Part of it is disgust with the political ineptitude of the Democratic Party. But part of it is I'm not sure this election matters all that much, other than the progrssives who are threatened. Do I really care if Heath Shuler, Travis Childers, Jim Marshall, Bobby Bright or Stephanie Herseth, et al., win? Why? I suppose they are better than their opponents, but what happens if they lose? IS any policy going to change because of it? I will vote straight Dem on my ballot. But I am not sure that it matter all that much. 2012 will be very important of course. But this election? I am not so sure.

YMMV. In the meantime, my thoughts turn to Saturday afternoon in Tuscaloosa where my Gators face the Crimson Tide in the biggest game of the college football season so far. To be honest, I'm thinking a lot more about that than the election. Sorry, President Obama.

Open Thread.

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    Happy to learn my niece is home safe (5.00 / 5) (#1)
    by oculus on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 04:39:20 PM EST
    after tense times at U T in Austin this mrning. All reported by her in real time on Facebook b/4 I knew what was happening.

    Good to hear no (5.00 / 3) (#3)
    by brodie on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 04:43:43 PM EST
    one but the gunman was hurt.

    Lots of us probably immediately thought back to 1966 when we first heard this news item this morning, and things turned out so much differently back then ...

    Parent

    Good news (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 04:48:29 PM EST
    Good thoughts, good vibes to you both n/t (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by Ellie on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 04:57:35 PM EST
    Scary (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by MO Blue on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 05:26:32 PM EST
    Would hate to have a family member at an University while that was going on. Definitely would have me going crazy with worry until I knew they were safe.

    Parent
    Should have gone to Texas A&M! (1.00 / 0) (#60)
    by dead dancer on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 10:19:33 PM EST

    Glad she is okay.

    Still not too late for A&M!

    Parent

    A Dem "win" may be a bigger loss in time (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by BobTinKY on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 04:43:04 PM EST
    What will a slight Dem majority in Congress accomplish that solid Dem majorities failed at?  Nothing.

    And what can a slight GOP majority in Congress accomplish with Obama able to veto?  That's up to Obama, which is admittedly worrisome but hardly an argument around which to organize your progressive supporters ("Vote D because you know you can't trust me to veto the worst of GOP policies").

    And for what is sure to be little if any productive action from the next Congress who will be blamed by an irate electorate in 2012 when there is still a horrific economy and lingering senseless wars (not to mention ongoign attacks on civil liberties)?  Whichever party is in power.

    Better it be the GOP.  I'll vote Dem, but if they lose they earned it and will likely be better off for it in 2012.  Purge the Blue Dogs, let the majority GOP reveal its insanity once again for all to see and remind themselves about, and run some real progressives to finally get to work in 2012.


    What they'd try to (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by brodie on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 04:50:17 PM EST
    do with just a slim R majority is begin the witch hunt against Obama, tarnish him with some bogus scandalmongering investigations up the wazoo, then possibly finish the yearlong effort with an impeachment case for the Jud'ry Comm'ee.

    Apart from the several races I'm interested in CA and WI and a few other places (largely what btd listed), the only other matter is actually preventing the GOP goons from taking over a chamber of Congress, and the ugly aftermath that would entail for this country, possibly with plenty of racial animus stirred up as they go after the first black to hold the presidency.

    Parent

    is that all bad? bear with me (5.00 / 2) (#13)
    by BobTinKY on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 05:02:54 PM EST
    If the GOP has power & responsibility and chooses at a time of huge economic distress for millions to impeach Obama, goes on wild goose chases etc as you, I believe accurately describe, do you think voters in 2012 will reward that?

    Combine that with a purging of Blue Dogs and you can imagine a more progressive Dem Congressional majority in 2013.  I hate to say it, but given the state of affairs it is the best scenario I can conjure up.

    While there exists plenty of racial animus in the Tea PArty, do you really think that tired old GOP strategy plays well to the public at large anymore?  I think it pisses people off.

    Parent

    Yes (none / 0) (#16)
    by squeaky on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 05:06:21 PM EST
    If the GOP has power & responsibility and chooses at a time of huge economic distress for millions to impeach Obama, goes on wild goose chases etc as you, I believe accurately describe, do you think voters in 2012 will reward that?

    Yes they will, but it all depends on how they do it. The GOP has blocked almost all legislation and nominees to date since Obama has taken office, and yet the GOP is predicted to win landslide votes in NOv.

    If the GOP shuts down government, the weak Democrats will be to blame.

    Parent

    I was just thinking... (none / 0) (#22)
    by kdog on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 05:12:42 PM EST
    the last time a Repub majority was obsessed with taking down a Dem pres, instead of a whole country, gas was 99 cents a gallon and working people had more cashish in their pockets.  
    Coincidence?

    Parent
    While I'd hope for the (none / 0) (#30)
    by brodie on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 05:23:25 PM EST
    backlash effect to kick in for 2012, I'd also have to recall the unwarranted and abusive 1998 impeachment of Clinton and how just a year or so later in 2000 it was mostly a non-factor.   And instead of Dems learning the lesson about acting like Dems and standing strong for Dem principles, we continued to see DLCers and Blue Dogs elected time and again.

    Yes, the modern GOP is well capable of overplaying it and turning off millions of voters in the middle.  Just as possible however is that the public will go back to paying more attention to whatever the GOP/MSM tell them is the pressing issue du jour, like tax cuts for the "small businessman", eliminating forever the "death tax" and the like.

    We always talk about how such and such an outcome will result in lessons learned by pols and public alike, and a new glorious day will then be at hand with a better party and wiser public, but it never seems to turn out that way.

    Parent

    Good rejoinder, brodie (none / 0) (#43)
    by christinep on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 05:52:40 PM EST
    Those who win understand that the concept of deferral--"if we lose now, everyone will realize how bad it will become, and turn around and put us in again"--tends not to work out the way a dashed spirit might imagine. Those that get power and work together to move forward with it usually keep it for awhile (not always, but usually.) Thanks for your comments.

    Parent
    I'm not (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 05:18:05 PM EST
    so sure that the GOP won't win the presidency in 2012. It won't take that much for them to win. Bush got into office and reelection by squeaking by and the supreme court. I'm not sure that having a GOP congress will be good for Obama. He's no Bill Clinton who realizes what lengths the GOP will go to. The irony of all this is Obama is the one who thought we could "turn the page" on the 90's. He seems to have no concept of how actually crazy the GOP is.

    Parent
    What you mean "we"? (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Sep 29, 2010 at 12:07:21 AM EST
    "Obama is the one who thought we could "turn the page" on the 90's."

    Parent
    I guess that (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Sep 29, 2010 at 06:22:11 AM EST
    wasn't very clear. We as in the whole country. I never thought we could turn the page.

    Parent
    Who do you think they would run? (none / 0) (#28)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 05:22:44 PM EST
    I guess that's (none / 0) (#51)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 06:58:46 PM EST
    the million dollar question. Romney would be able to win a national election IMO but could he get out of the primary?

    Parent
    The Man from New Amsterdam (none / 0) (#68)
    by beowulf on Wed Sep 29, 2010 at 04:10:15 AM EST
    David Petreaus (a New Yorker whose father was  Dutch) with Mike Huckabee as his VP.


    Parent
    Possible (none / 0) (#77)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 29, 2010 at 08:17:33 AM EST
    He really has his hands full though right now.  The deadline for progress shown is 2011, perhaps he will be free to run.

    Parent
    Gotta tell ya though (none / 0) (#78)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 29, 2010 at 08:18:12 AM EST
    David Petraeus isn't picking Huck to run with him.

    Parent
    The more things change, the more.... (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by christinep on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 05:05:33 PM EST
    So, now there is a new poll from WSJ/NBC (full poll to be released at 6:30 eastern time.) It appears that former President Bill Clinton is now the most popular (favorably rated) political figure in the land...the article notes that it is quite a change from when he left office. Since I've always been a Bill Clinton proponent, I smiled.

    Polls sure are funny, aren't they? And...so are we?

    Well, (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 05:20:35 PM EST
    the 90's probably seem a wonderland after 8 years of Bush and Obama ineptitude. You can count me in on that thinking.

    Parent
    If I am not mistaken, Bill Clinton (5.00 / 2) (#45)
    by Anne on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 06:02:52 PM EST
    left office with one of the highest favorability ratings:

    Bill Clinton's approval ratings when he left office were actually higher than Reagan's, at 66 percent versus Reagan's 63 percent (Gallup, 1/10-14-01).  

    I even remember that right after the impeachment vote, his rating was near 70%.

    Here's a link to his ratings.

    His ratings came down in 2008, over the faux racist accusations by the Obama campaign, but have been steadily climbing since.

    Parent

    The haters will vapor lock :) (none / 0) (#23)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 05:13:40 PM EST
    He has been attempting to educate the public though, and whenever he has done that....for whatever reason people adore him.  When I watched him last week though I figured the haters were having a quiet conniption behind closed doors.  If Clinton finishes out history as more beloved than Obama, Booman will stroke out.

    Parent
    It is good to hear from, see, learn from Clinton (none / 0) (#46)
    by christinep on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 06:03:12 PM EST
    once again. The ability to explain at so many levels is in its own stratosphere.

    Let me add: I also believe that Clinton is acting as an important emissary for the current President...in many ways. Time plays strange games with all of us (as the poll shows.) Wishful thinking, but not entirely inaccurate on my part: Someday I expect to read about the transition of these two powerful, intelligent men--Clinton & Obama--as the relationship of the senior & junior deepens with the one with 16 years more maturation adapting the senior statesman as teacher mode. Now, that would be a genuine win for both of them, and all of us.

    Parent

    soooo . . . . (5.00 / 4) (#48)
    by nycstray on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 06:19:40 PM EST
    when is Jr gonna start some learnin'?

    Parent
    Oh, come on, christine... (5.00 / 5) (#54)
    by Anne on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 07:56:12 PM EST
    these men aren't gods, aren't even close; and as much fluency as Clinton has - and had - with the language of feel-good politics, he doesn't deserve your near-orgasmic rhapsody.

    We aren't supposed to love and adore these men - we're supposed to be holding their feet to the fire and reminding them who, exactly, they're working for.

    This over-the-top near-worship just makes me want to gag.

    Parent

    I don't adore them (none / 0) (#55)
    by christinep on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 08:46:25 PM EST
    But, there is a certain amount of admiration for these two gentlemen. Nor do I believe that these humans--no matter the power and intelligence--resemble "gods." Sic transit gloria mundi. I understand the difference between spirituality and politics; and, that is the reason--Anne--why my expectations were not dashed, because they were never put on a pedestal to begin with.  

    Yet, in learning about the art of governance in this country, it is my conclusion that former President Clinton can serve as statesman and, in some situations, mentor. In that vein, President Obama is just completing the first half of a first term. If my words were effusive...well, maybe I've just soaked up some of it from the atmosphere where others feel free to express their emotions in comments as well. (Hmmmm?)

    Parent

    Speak for yourself,, (none / 0) (#57)
    by Rojas on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 09:17:12 PM EST
    I had an orgasm..
    I may have another before I finish the thread.

    Parent
    Good for you (none / 0) (#61)
    by dead dancer on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 10:24:50 PM EST
    sounds like someone else needs one too!

    Good Morning Vietnam

    Parent

    Bill Clinton was (none / 0) (#63)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Sep 29, 2010 at 12:16:57 AM EST
    certainly flawed, as a president as well as a human being.  But damn, the guy totally understood on an instinctive level how to talk to people, and he still does.  Probably my greatest regret about the Monica/impeachment business was the fact that he stopped giving those just dazzling, tour de force press conferences.  The combination of intellect and empathy has always been just stunning to me.

    One of my biggest continuing problems with Obama is the fact that he disdains to explain in anything other than generalities and platitudes what he's doing and why.  Although not a policy wonk like Clinton, he surely knows more about the details of this stuff, but he seems to think we're not capable of understanding or caring about it.

    Parent

    Or (5.00 / 2) (#73)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Sep 29, 2010 at 06:24:58 AM EST
    he himself has said at times that he's not that interested in the details. It's really tiresome to hear more platitudes after 8 years of platitudes from Bush. The only advantage Bush had here was that he could fake empathy.

    Parent
    I could sit and listen to Bill (5.00 / 3) (#74)
    by Anne on Wed Sep 29, 2010 at 07:21:30 AM EST
    forever, I think; he's a great teacher, has the ability to instantly connect with the people because he not only has a command of the issues, but accords the people the respect of believing they are (1) entitled to the facts and (2) capable of understanding them; he can take complex issues and explain them sinply without oversimplifying them - if that makes sense.

    No, he's not perfect now, nor was he then, but I think it says something about the quality of the leaders we have that we keep looking back to Clinton - who's been out of office for 10 years - as a benchmark.  

    I think what America has learned is that when the bright lights of a campaign are turned off, when the music fades and the crowds wander off, people still want to feel connected to the person who is leading the country, and they want to take delivery on the promises made - and what people get from Obama is this sort of aloof, stand-offish, this-is-really-too-important-for-you-to-be-able-to-understand kind of vibe, that now comes with a you-aren't-grateful-enough attitude.  

    He laughs - as Bush did - when people aren't being funny; he depends on talking points to respond to people instead of hearing what they are saying and then mirroring their mood and affirming the reason for their question or comment.  When someone confronts him with, "I'm still waiting to see this positive change in my life," and he comes back with, "well, look at what we've already done...most progressive legislation in a lifetime...long list of accomplishments," he's not hearing that his list means nothing to people if they aren't seeing the results in their own lives.

    Browbeating and shaming people into voting for your party is not leadership, and it isn't a winning strategy; if this mid-term campaign is a test of his allegedly brilliant political skills, I think he fails.

    Parent

    I was never a Fan of WJC or HRC then or now ... (none / 0) (#76)
    by Ellie on Wed Sep 29, 2010 at 08:14:37 AM EST
    ... because I don't gauge leadership on traits that fit a basic profile to inspire and maintain a Personality Cult. (That's for celebs, public figures generally and any dead person whose hagiography is being revised to suit the whims of the present.)

    I did come to respect and admire WJC for weathering the unremitting attack of movement conservatism during his time in office. I've admired his genuine commitment to global initiatives that affect issues that are important to the progress of issues that matter to me.

    Separately, I meh about HRC overall (except for being impressed by her very early advocacy for health care and health insurance); she served well as FLOTUS, an unelected position and was just fine in that role.

    I was basically neutral about her record as Jr. Senator for NYC -- hits and misses IMO -- but impressed by her stand against movement conservatives, given that her contemporaries were quaking at the knees to go up against that tide.

    HRC earned my respect and admiration during her run for the presidency by standing up with grace and guts to an overwhelming, historically unprecedented and egregiously unfair assault based not on her qualifications or even platform but any randomly selected attribute or zombie gossip that suited the whims and agendas of her detractors.

    Independently, WJC and HRC have each earned the respect of the public, though that hasn't registered yet on people who are still padding their schtick with worn-out Monica jokes and other archaic references ... even while being nostalgic for their own better standard of living during the nineties.

    Parent

    Mostly agree, Ellie (none / 0) (#82)
    by christinep on Wed Sep 29, 2010 at 12:00:02 PM EST
    Your comments about the Clintons--individually--are definitely shared at this end. My only point of difference has to do with "personality."  While too much emphasis on style can trend toward cult (or to the opposite rejection because of discomfort with or speculation about what the politician "really is" in his/her inmost self) the dynamics of American politics sytemically highlight personality and, because it is not a strict party or parliamentary system, people focus on their perceptions of the man or woman without regard to philosophy.

    Parent
    On personality (none / 0) (#81)
    by christinep on Wed Sep 29, 2010 at 11:48:38 AM EST
    Like Anne, I could sit & listen to Bill Clinton all day. For the same reasons...we rhapsodize similarly. Another reason: Clinton has an open, gregarious--extrovert--personality; and, it is a style in him and others with which I connect. Barack Obama was "rhapsodized" by many as a person of ultimate cool...brilliant & thoughtful, etc. etc. The professor.

    Without it any way belittling personality styes or, certainly, without in any way minimizing the extensive issues that have confronted us in these past years, I would guess that people are very much effected by a politician's style...pro or con. For example: Check out a classic study in the mid-50s from the Michigan Survey Research Center about Presidential politics and Eisenhower v Stevenson. This study was later taught in many political science courses to illustrate the winning attribute of a smile (Eisenhower) in contrast to the aloofness emanating from the professorial type (Stevenson.) Now...communication improvements just might enhance personality differences. At least, it is something to consider.


    Parent

    In an elected public servant, knowledge and ... (none / 0) (#83)
    by Ellie on Wed Sep 29, 2010 at 02:48:05 PM EST
    ... leadership, ie, being out in FRONT of issues and the pack, rather than hiding behind polls, spokesthings and handlers, or superficialities like Imaging and Branding, is what matters the most.

    THAT's why most people don't accept whimsical psychological profiles or Fans and Personality followings.

    THAT's why I'm not a Fan or an unquestioning Follower of anyone in office.

    I take my vote seriously.

    Parent

    Voting is one of the most (none / 0) (#84)
    by christinep on Wed Sep 29, 2010 at 05:19:01 PM EST
    significant things we do. I agree.
    One thing we also do--and I agree with your suggestion that it doesn't matter--is ascribe deep psychological motives to the actor politician.
    What is accurate tho is that certain personality attributes are quite appealing or unappealing to the American voter. The MSRC work essentially started a series of political science studies over the years about "clusters of attitudes" that voters hold. While it is not a physical science, the pol-sci studies have been replicated many times.
    The leadership conundrum is fascinating too. I prefer my "leader" to be out in front. And, that is especially so in economic matters and in foreign policy issue given that a plebiscite on everything would spin us even in more circles than can seem to be the case. One area, tho, where we may want the leader to be the true "servant leader" is in areas where all citizens may be regarded as having the same degree of "expertise." Thats the bailiwick of the so-called social issues. (I guess my approach was formed on the leadership question, to some degree, by JFK's long ago "Profiles in Courage" where he illustrated the dichotomy of leadership as the command in front and leadership as the follower of the constituency. Maybe the real challenge is knowing what situation calls for what style?)


    Parent
    Well, (none / 0) (#27)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 05:21:39 PM EST
    the 90's probably seem a wonderland after 8 years of Bush and Obama ineptitude. You can count me in on that thinking.

    Parent
    Funny thing that (none / 0) (#42)
    by brodie on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 05:51:15 PM EST
    even with all that ballyhooed so-called Clinton Fatigue of the late 90s, if the Repubs of an earlier era hadn't arranged to re-arrange the Constitution, Bill could have probably easily won a 3d term in 2000, as he occasionally speculated about in private at the time.

    These days I too rate him highly and his slimmed-down vegan look, along with the regrets about what might have been, in his presidency and with Hillary in 2008.

    Parent

    If you haven't seen (none / 0) (#47)
    by BackFromOhio on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 06:06:25 PM EST
    Bill Clinton's interview on the WSJ Report this past Sunday, I'd take a look at it on youtube.com.  He had all sorts of specific suggestions for creating more jobs, with an analysis of why the proposals would work, etc. It was amazing, even for him.

    Parent
    No policy discussion (none / 0) (#64)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Sep 29, 2010 at 12:18:58 AM EST
    is amazing even for him.  The guy's a prodigy.

    Parent
    Another (none / 0) (#75)
    by lilburro on Wed Sep 29, 2010 at 07:59:46 AM EST
    Clinton tidbit:

    In a lengthy profile of Clinton and how his life is perfect now, Politico slips in this nugget about how Clinton, via his longtime personal aide Doug Band, reacted to John Edwards' sad plea for support following the outing of his affair with Rielle Hunter in 2008:

    "In 2008, John Edwards called, seeking a statement of support from Clinton when his affair with Rielle Hunter exploded publicly. A loyalist with a long memory, Band sent back word, asking whether Edwards recalled his own denunciation of Clinton during the Monica Lewinsky controversy."

    Heh heh heh...

    Parent

    Whitman/Brown debate (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by nycstray on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 05:24:53 PM EST
    tonight at 6 from UC Davis. sounds like a good time for a nice chill bottle of wine and some popcorn :)

    Jerry cooked her (none / 0) (#58)
    by Stellaaa on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 09:40:34 PM EST
    I can live with all the rest at least I want a Dem Governor for California.  I had enough with the billionaire politician.  

    Parent
    howdy!!! :) (none / 0) (#59)
    by nycstray on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 09:56:11 PM EST
    I want to keep Boxer also. Carly not an option for me.

    Last weekend Meg's booth at the farmers market was a no show for the first time in months. brown/boxer/miller had rep though. pretty sure it was through working families (?) not the dem party . . . . which is good for me as I can still vote '3rd party' :)

    Parent

    Hey-glad to hear it (none / 0) (#69)
    by ruffian on Wed Sep 29, 2010 at 05:32:49 AM EST
    and from a trusted source!

    Parent
    People whose hair is distinctively not on fire ... (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by Ellie on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 05:30:41 PM EST
    ... and have apparently fireproof hair have kept telling me that I must set my hair on fire just ... because.

    This has happened so often and in such wildly ranging circumstances, it stopped making sense too far back to remember when it ever did make sense.

    Now, I know why I won't set my hair on fire: I happen to like my hair overall and I particularly like how it catches the light as it keeps my brains warm.

    What's lapped the other nonsense is the stompiness following the big DUH! that I Simply Will Not Do it without some excellent reasons, detailed within good, non-insulting, rational answers first.

    I have yet to hear any.

    Do I really care if Heath Shuler, Travis Childers, Jim Marshall, Bobby Bright or Stephanie Herseth, et al., win? Why?

    See, this is a also a good, albeit non-hair related question, and I'm curious about that answer too.

    I don't know if you'll consider this a good reason (5.00 / 2) (#39)
    by ruffian on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 05:41:11 PM EST
    But here's mine: I live in Suzanne Kosmas' district, and a blue doggier blue dog than she you are unlikely to find. Little if anything will chanje if the Repub wins, except that all of the Repubs I work with, and they are loud, insulting, and impossible to avoid, will gloat for a long time. So for that reason my daily life will be a lot better if she wins. It's not much, but it's all I've got.

    Parent
    A good example of a decent answer ... (none / 0) (#44)
    by Ellie on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 05:56:26 PM EST
    I truly wish you well against the Repug crowing (bleccch, it's insufferable) and recc'd investment in good mobile audio and/or going into fake cel call mode at the salt mine until you're safely behind a personal firewall.

    I've been there; it's brutal, it sucks, but sooner than you think, it will suck less until you just become numb.

    Hang in there, but first and foremost, always protect the hair.

    Parent

    If my hair starts on fire over Suzanne Kosmas (5.00 / 3) (#50)
    by ruffian on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 06:39:47 PM EST
    I'll know I've lost it altogether.

    My cube setup is such that I have my back to the entrance. I hate to get startled or spyed on, so I don't wear headphones much in order to hear someone coming in. When it gets too bad I put them on though.

    Here's the real FL voter dilemma - the Senate race. I can't stand the thought of Rubio winning, so I'm thinking of voting for Crist if it looks like he has a shot.. Otherwise i'll go for Mek even though rit doesn't look good for him right now. sigh.

    Parent

    Question about Florida (none / 0) (#52)
    by christinep on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 07:10:01 PM EST
    From way out here, the Florida situation looks like the biggest dilemma of all for the Democratic voter. At what point(s) should a D. know whether or not to vote for Crist or Meek? Are there any markers? Any signals? (When does absentee or early voting start?)

    Parent
    I'm gonna start watching the polls (none / 0) (#53)
    by ruffian on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 07:30:53 PM EST
    I haven't paid that much attention to them yet, but I just got my absentee ballot in the mail today, so I'll focus. I can drop it off at the polling place election day if I need that much time.  I figure if Rubio is beating them both by double digits a week before, it will be over and I'll vote Meek. Else I'll vote for whoever has a chance to beat Rubio.

    Kind of depressed about the whole thing. I didn't think my choices would include both Rubio and Crist.

    Parent

    From afar (none / 0) (#66)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Sep 29, 2010 at 12:33:31 AM EST
    I think Crist is your best bet.  I don't think Meek has a chance in h**l, but it's at least possible there'll be late movement towards Crist.  Preventing Rubio is number one.  I've seen him interviewed several times now, and he's just breathtakingly awful, would be even if his policy positions were acceptable, IMO.

    I say that sitting here in VT, where we have no such dilemmas, only a choice for governor between a decent but not thrilling Dem. and a rather moderate, old-fashioned but inadequate Republican.

    Parent

    I think that's how it will end up (none / 0) (#71)
    by ruffian on Wed Sep 29, 2010 at 06:19:13 AM EST
    I think it will tighten up - there is not exactly palpable enthusiasm for Rubio. But it might not turn enough in Meek's favor as opposed to Crist.

    Marking a ballot for Kosmas and Crist....at least I can do it at home while drinking heavily. We do have Alex Sink for gov, and she has a real shot. I'm hoping she even has some coattails for Meek.  

    Parent

    I know what you mean, but (none / 0) (#65)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Sep 29, 2010 at 12:20:51 AM EST
    if your hair wasn't on fire during the Bush adminstration, I don't know what would set it on fire.

    Parent
    Daily I braced for the imminent head explosion (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by Ellie on Wed Sep 29, 2010 at 12:54:17 AM EST
    ... but during that whole unfortunate time everything held together. Credit where credit is due: good hair will see you through almost any dilemma.

    Parent
    I hope the Gators (none / 0) (#4)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 04:47:37 PM EST
    whup em.  I'm having a hard time finding Auburn clothing around here for War Eagle Joshua, since last year they aren't stocking team gear 50/50 and I've had it.  Meanwhile someone taught toddler Zoey to say, "Roll Tide Sucks".  I did not do this to the child.  I can't bring myself to teach toddlers to curse because I'm shopping challenged.

    As for the races, I find myself in the same boat.  There are a few I cannot abide losing but I haven't contributed anything to Bobby Bright nor sporting a yard sign.  I have seen very very few signs for him around town as well.  His voting block appears to be disenchanted.

    I love this story (none / 0) (#6)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 04:49:38 PM EST
    Fisherman's 'inseparable relationship' with crocodile

    he is so cute when he rolls over to get his belly scratched.

    How big is he I wonder? (none / 0) (#9)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 04:55:16 PM EST
    This past weekend Josh had something on the tube about North America monster crocs and the Florida area.  The crocs are apparently getting bigger.

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    17 feet (none / 0) (#10)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 04:56:10 PM EST
    wow

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    Now that's a watch dog (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 05:00:57 PM EST
    The Gators can't afford to have the (none / 0) (#8)
    by BTAL on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 04:52:42 PM EST
    slow starts they've exhibited and hope for some Demps big plays to change the game/momentum.  If they start slow, the Tide will be unstoppable.

    But, meh this is the big annual bragging rights battle between my two younger brothers.

    Go Buckeyes!

    SUO's movie reviews: (none / 0) (#14)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 05:04:47 PM EST
    Alpha and Omega (animation)

    Lame. Lame story overall. The central "hook" was the wolves' howling, which should have struck a strong emotional chord but instead annoyed me. I couldn't wait until they stopped.

    And the animation was lame. Both the characterizations and the execution. The lead wolf-ette's fur looked like a Patagonia fleece. Just weird, couldn't figure out why they made that choice.

    Co-production with Indian animation house.

    Pass.

    The Town

    Great frigging movie. Anti-hero, moral morass, etc. Easily suspended my disbelief. Based in Boston. Saw it on Sunday and I'm still thinking about it.

    Highly recommended - and not just for the Boston CST's and underdog kdog's of the TL world...

    you were twice (none / 0) (#18)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 05:08:01 PM EST
    referred to in the last thread as "SAO" I was about to ask if it was a typeo or a reason.


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    No clue. Unless they think I'm Portuguese (none / 0) (#19)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 05:10:20 PM EST
    and are giving me my righteous props.

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    That was me-typo! Sorry! (none / 0) (#36)
    by ruffian on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 05:32:10 PM EST
    And I deal with acronyms all day.

    Not that the unnamed one is not a Portuguese saint. I can't prove he/she is not!

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    on movies reviews (none / 0) (#20)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 05:10:43 PM EST
    I have just been watching "Anitchrist" the Lars Von Trier movie.  it streams from netflix.  and it is not safe for most work.  even mine got a couple of cat calls and "what the HELL are you watching" from over my shoulder.

    wow.

    not for the faint hearted but beautiful to look at.

    dont ask me what it means.  

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    I'll watch it tonight if I can't sleep (none / 0) (#24)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 05:14:42 PM EST
    Saw The Town... (none / 0) (#29)
    by kdog on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 05:23:18 PM EST
    My disbelief wasn't suspended...it was entertaining, and ya got me I love a bankrobber with a heart of gold story, but it wasn't all that.  I mighta let the reviews hype it up too much.

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    Fair enough. (none / 0) (#34)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 05:30:15 PM EST
    I didn't see any reviews beforehand, I didn't even know who was in it until the opening frames, so it was all new to me.

    His 0 to 100 mph in 5 minutes relationship with the bank manager was a little quick, but hey, it's a movie, you've only got a short amount of time to set it up.

    With the kids and all, Mrs. SUO and I don't get out to see grown-up movies very often. This one really worked for us.

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    I would have liked... (none / 0) (#37)
    by kdog on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 05:37:48 PM EST
    some more depth into the mom/dad/florist storyline...felt lacking.  Maybe too much going on.

    Some of the performances were really good...wasn't crazy about the bank manager though.  

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    Ya, I wasn't blown away by her either. (none / 0) (#40)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 05:45:02 PM EST
    Too funny though, at one point in the movie she flashed a smile and I leaned over to my wife and said "She just really reminded me of [a girl I went to HS with who's an actress out here in LA now] and my wife said "Too wierd, I just had the exact same thought!" so I spent the rest of the movie trying to remember if the girl I went to HS with had any younger sisters or cousins. Not related, I'm now sure.

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    I liked it too (none / 0) (#38)
    by Democratic Cat on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 05:39:30 PM EST
    I hadn't read any reviews before I went to see it last weekend, so maybe that helped. But I thought it was an interesting story with good plot twists and decent acting. Overall it was very entertaining.

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    The Life and Times of Young Dadler (none / 0) (#17)
    by Dadler on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 05:07:16 PM EST
    Will the Gators (none / 0) (#21)
    by brodie on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 05:11:07 PM EST
    have enough players actually out of jail or eligible under generous parole terms to play this weekend?  

    Lots of arrests lately of Gator players, some for felonies and violent misdemeanors, yet to date no NCAA investigations seem forthcoming.  A booster buys a recruit a candy bar and a coke -- the NCAA is interested in that and will crack down hard on the player and the school if further investigation shows a burger was also part of the free meal.  Felonies and violent misdemeanors?  Apparently not so interested ...  

    Forgot to mention: (none / 0) (#33)
    by brodie on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 05:27:29 PM EST
    to put down this cite.  Overall arrest numbers look kinda unflattering to Coach Meyer's program, though some argue they aren't completely out of line with the overall university student blotter.  Hmm.  Not entirely convincing logic ...

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    And in other news, Junkyard Dog bites Man (none / 0) (#49)
    by Ellie on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 06:27:45 PM EST
    Andrew Leonard (Salon's War Room) describes The dumbest attack on Paul Krugman, ever (09/28/2010).

    I don't concur. The dumbest would be that his photoshopped military drag was ill-fitting and clearly not up to the sartorial standards of the tear-away kits issued to chickenhawks. Otherwise, sheeze the attack wasn't just dumb but historically dumb.

    I went on the Daily Kos and posted this: (none / 0) (#56)
    by cpa1 on Tue Sep 28, 2010 at 08:53:07 PM EST
    Say it isn't So Barack and Dailykos Obama vigilantes!  

    After 30 years of trickle down economics that doesn't work, Obama wants to let the income tax on rates on dividends go up to only 20%, half of what hard working earned income is taxed.  Not only has it not worked, as we see under Bush we lost 8 million jobs, if has drained the Treasury so that the government could not invest in infrastructure and the things that would create jobs.  So, trickle down economics takes away jobs.

    Here is an article from Bloomberg that says Obama wants to cap the tax on dividends at 20%.  

    Intro
    You must enter an Intro for your Diary Entry between 300 and 1150 characters long (that's approximately 50-175 words without any html or formatting markup).
    After 30 years of trickle down economics that doesn't work, Obama wants to let the income tax on rates on dividends go up to only 20%, half of what hard working earned income is taxed.  Not only has it not worked, as we see under Bush we lost 8 million jobs, if has drained the Treasury so that the government could not invest in infrastructure and the things that would create jobs.  So, trickle down economics takes away jobs.

    Here is an article from Bloomberg that says Obama wants to cap the tax on dividends at 20%.  

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-09-28/house-democrats-push-to-keep-15-capital-gains-tax-rate-in-p elosi-letter.html

    Hello!  I told you that's what he would do.  I told you, after listening to that Reno Gazette interview that this guy is a waste of time.  Imagine if he caps the tax on dividends at 20%.  More jobs will be lost because the Treasury will have that much less money to spend.  Maybe the Obama Vigilantes can defend the lower tax on dividends now because Obama wants it.

    Wake the hell up and start understanding that the investment set doesn't make the economy grow, they just push around a lot of electronic entries.  Meanwhile, Americans are not spending and when they don't spend, dividends could be taxed at zero percent and business would not invest their capital.  It's about jobs, not the trust funder's portfolios.
    -----------------------------------------------

    They think I am a troll and they think that rasing the rate on dividends to 20% is fine just because it is going up.  Then they asked me how the PUMA convention was among other things

    A few years ago they silenced me because I warned them that Obama was not going to fight the Republicans on taxes and sure enough, we have no Estate Tax this year and he wants a tiny raise on dividends tax rate.  He is what I thought he was years ago when he praised Reagan to the Reno Gazette.  He is a huge disappoinment.


    If Rick Scott Wins In Florida (none / 0) (#70)
    by john horse on Wed Sep 29, 2010 at 05:58:23 AM EST
    its going to be "Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling! Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes...
    dead rising from the grave! Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together" (Ghostbusters)

    So BTD, how can you be complacent in the face of pure evil?

    I disagree, we need to throw the bums out (none / 0) (#79)
    by Bornagaindem on Wed Sep 29, 2010 at 08:21:54 AM EST
    Sorry Big TD I completely disagree. The last two years have clearly demonstrated that even if we elect the biggest majorities in whatever it was 50 years? we get nothing but republican lite. And as you have pointed out we are supposed to cheer for what we know are bad bills just because the leadership says so. Well I am done.

    In this two party system we are stuck with, we need to take the reins. The only way to do that is  for the next 2 or 3 election cycles in every race, we must throw the bums out. You can primary the incumbent but if not then if your rep is a dem throw them out. If they are a repug throw them out. It will make no difference who has the slight majority. If they can't stay in office they can't accomplish anything because we will throw them out again next election. It will finally force them to see us and it will mean we can get campaign finance reform and public financing of elections. Then we can get people other that the independently wealthy running for office and our reps will not have to spend all their time raising money from special interests instead of legislating. Without us tackling this our broken system will just continue and I won't play any more.  

    I can only think of one dem senator that deserves to be kept and that is Russ Feingold- he is the only one who has stood up for progressive values.

    So I am done perpetuating the old system and since a third party has been tried and tried I am taking a new tack. The slogan is Throw the bums out - everytime - until we get the change we want.

    Besides it is going to be fun to watch the contortions at the white house as his oliness tries to spin the fact that it is someone else's fault when he refuses to veto the worst of the repug excesses.

    Agree completely (none / 0) (#80)
    by DancingOpossum on Wed Sep 29, 2010 at 09:53:06 AM EST
    What liberals and Democratic voters keep forgetting is the simple truism that the GOP fears and respects its base, while the Democrats don't respect their base at night, in the morning, or any damn time. And it's because they know that their voters will take all the abuse and contempt they dish out, and happily sit up and beg for more (after complaining a little bit)--I can't count the number of irate, impassioned posts that list every fault, crime, and betrayal the Dems have committed that concludes "But of course I'll still vote for them...because the alternative is so much worse."

    This craven, cringing attitude would be hilarious if it were not so revolting. And why any self-respecting person wants any part of it is beyond me. This is America, damn it. Stand up for yourself.

    So does that mean Dems have to vote GOP? No--although there is nothing wrong with that as a protest vote. Some Hillary voters did just that to register their outrage with the DNC's vote-stealing antics. It doesn't mean they supported the GOP or McCain, it means they emphatically oppose the Democratic candidate and party. What's interesting is how many other Dems screamed and wailed and raged about this, calling them traitors, Republicans in disguise, etc etc. The concept of "protest" seems to have entirely eluded them--which explains a lot, I guess.

    There are other ways to register your discontent, of course. Not voting is one, although I think the least effective. Voting an affirmative NOTA or third party is probably the best. In sum, your vote is about the only thing the two parties have not yet managed to steal from you (unless you were a Florida or Michigan Democratic primary voter). Use it wisely.


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