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Thursday Afternoon Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 02:35:14 PM EST
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It's another busy work day. Here's an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    Thursday Afternoon Open Thread | 123 comments (123 topical)

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    Boxer/Carly (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by Lil on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 02:56:49 PM EST
    I hear Fiorina says Boxer is arrogant. My first thought about that was "what a projection!" Obviously I don't know either one personally but Fiorina comes off a little arrogant to me.

    Boxer was arrogant in her speaking to (3.00 / 2) (#3)
    by BTAL on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 03:07:03 PM EST
    the 3-star General who used the respectable term "Ma-am" towards her.

    YouTube

    Parent

    Respectable (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by squeaky on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 03:09:43 PM EST
    It was sexist. She is a Senator, and she didn't call him dude.

    Parent
    Personally... (5.00 / 3) (#16)
    by kdog on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 03:33:02 PM EST
    I don't see what is disrespectful about "ma'am", the female equivalent of "sir", both are respectful....or what is disrespectful about letting someone know how you prefer to be addressed.

    Much ado about absolutely nothing, imo, on both sides.

    Parent

    You obviously have zero experience with (none / 0) (#10)
    by BTAL on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 03:22:54 PM EST
    military customs and courtesies. Sir/Ma-am are specific terms used when addressing seniors.

    Parent
    Who can say without seeing the entire (5.00 / 1) (#113)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 24, 2010 at 10:40:30 AM EST
    exchange between Boxer and the General.  There was a time at the beginning of the Iraq War when a lot of military leadership was VERY disrepectful of "Liberal" Senators.  I have spoken of this before and it always pisses Jim off.  But in the time frame of the first year in Iraq, my husband bumped into Senator Clinton at an Ireland airport.  She was returning from Iraq and he was heading back after R/R at home.  He introduced himself mostly because I was such a fan of hers at the time.  He told her that his wife would never forgive him if he didn't go meet her.  He was returning home along with the flight surgeon who was a mega rightwing jacka$$ (and I spent a faux Thanksgiving with him and his family right before this happened).  The flight surgeon took offense to my husband seeking to shake the hand of a "Liberal" Senator and reported the event to my husband's Lt. Col who was also an insane winger.  My husband was constantly reminded of his bleeding heart liberal tendencies that whole tour.  The Lt. Col. had to retire early though when Iraq began to not go well, he couldn't handle it.  There is a distinct  possibility that this General needed to be reminded that Senator Boxer was his elected authority.  When did this recorded event actually take place and what was it about?  What was the General being questioned about as well?

    Parent
    He is the active duty Corps of Engineers (none / 0) (#114)
    by BTAL on Fri Sep 24, 2010 at 12:52:58 PM EST
    commander for the southern district/area.  It was in June or July at a committee meeting/hearing dealing with the status of the NOLA/Katrina Corps works.  He was beginning to respond to a question Boxer had asked him regarding a report.

    Parent
    Has this General been (none / 0) (#119)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Sep 25, 2010 at 03:30:19 AM EST
    flippant or disrespectful to her or other women or Senators in her presence during this questioning or in the past?  You don't know, I don't know, and there are still plenty of men out there who wish that women would remember their place.  I don't know what the history is.

    Parent
    You obviously have zero experience with (none / 0) (#18)
    by squeaky on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 03:35:14 PM EST
    Addressing Senators.

    And Boxer has lots of experience dealing with sexist creeps who think Ma'am is appropriate way to address a Senator.

    I am certain that he does not address the women Generals who rank above him as Ma'am.

    Parent

    Watch a little C-Span (none / 0) (#102)
    by coast on Fri Sep 24, 2010 at 07:10:14 AM EST
    and you will see that "sir" and ma'am" are perfectly acceptable when answering a Senator or House member.

    Parent
    Perfectly Acceptable? (none / 0) (#115)
    by squeaky on Fri Sep 24, 2010 at 12:57:28 PM EST
    Evidentially not.  

    Senator Boxer gets to set the standard, not you.

    Parent

    Senator Boxer doesn't get to set anything, (none / 0) (#116)
    by coast on Fri Sep 24, 2010 at 09:19:59 PM EST
    over two hundred years of decorum trumps anything she believes she is entitled to.

    Parent
    She Just Did (none / 0) (#117)
    by squeaky on Fri Sep 24, 2010 at 09:40:25 PM EST
    In case you did not notice.

    Parent
    Are you saying she can't request/correct (none / 0) (#118)
    by nycstray on Fri Sep 24, 2010 at 10:37:27 PM EST
    how she would like to be addressed?

    Parent
    Certainly not, its perfectly within her (none / 0) (#120)
    by coast on Sun Sep 26, 2010 at 07:28:09 PM EST
    right to make such a request.  But the General was not being sexist by using "ma'am" as some have suggested here.  He was responding using a term that has been used and will continue to be used when addressing members of Congress.

    Parent
    Sexist (none / 0) (#121)
    by squeaky on Sun Sep 26, 2010 at 08:01:35 PM EST
    Usage of "Ma'am" is becoming increasingly uncommon in the United States and in Western Canada and is already out of common usage in Australia, New Zealand and England. In the past the term was to be used only for married women, In practice, however, those who cling to the use of the term "Ma'am" tend to address only older women this way, while they address younger women as "Miss". Because of this age divide, most U.S. women object to the use of "Ma'am" or "Miss" as addresses as there is no formal equal address for a younger man in common use. Men are always called "Sir", whether they are 18 or 80, while an 18 year old woman would be called "Miss", and a 40 year old woman "Ma'am". As of 2010, most American women equate the label "Ma'am" as meaning "Old lady" and eschew its use. [5] In fact, in 2009 the European Union issued guidance against the use of status-specific titles for women [6] [7] as the title for men, Mr., makes no reference to a man's marital status [8]. By the same token, the use of "Ma'am" for women over 40 and of "Miss" for women in their teens, twenties and thirties is seen as expressing the same sexism. [9] [10] [11] [12] As society progresses, it is now more common to state, "Would you like milk with your tea this evening?" rather than, "Would you like milk with your tea, Ma'am." The former query is inclusive, as it does not label the person to whom the question is being made and therefore does not offend. The latter sentence does label the person being questioned, and is more likely to offend than to not offend.

    WiKi

    Parent

    Sorry Squeaky, but the way I raised (none / 0) (#123)
    by coast on Mon Sep 27, 2010 at 10:13:56 AM EST
    sir and ma'am are terms used out of respect.  If you wish to use WiKi as your frame of reference, so be it.  I'm rather old and I still use them when addressing both my contemporaries and elders.  My kids will continue to use them as well.  If you or someone else is offended by it.  Tough luck.

    Parent
    Well You Grew Up in A Sexist Home (none / 0) (#124)
    by squeaky on Mon Sep 27, 2010 at 02:01:23 PM EST
    Which is quite normal, but most people have realized that sexism is not something they want to keep around.

    Sorry to hear that you are still defending sexist behavior.

    Most US women today do not want to be called Maam. Senator Barbara Boxer has made it clear that she doesn't want to be called by the sexist term maam.

    General Walsh, unlike you, acquiesced and called her Senator Boxer. You may want to take a hint from both Boxer and Walsh, and rethink your position regarding how you address women.

    But there are still people who call black people n*gger, women maam, and jews k*kes. Not sure why anyone would want to offend other people as a matter of course, particularly after they are made aware that the respective terms of address are offensive.

    Parent

    Brigadier General wears one star; (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 03:23:10 PM EST
    Lieutenant General wears three. As far as appropriate ways to address senators, it's "senator." This video doesn't address whether Senator Boxer was replying to a "yes- or no- ma'am" answer. however, I'd expect that he began his remark or answer with "ma'am."

    Wrong on military counts, wrong on proper address, also.

    Parent

    My typo of 3 vs 1 (3.00 / 2) (#20)
    by BTAL on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 03:37:56 PM EST
    He was responding to a specific question and Ma'am is an acceptable term.  She just wanted to act self-important over a GO.  Poor political, poor "leadership" and poor discretion on her part.  

    Parent
    Of course.. (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by jondee on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 04:09:23 PM EST
    and as that savant Sean would say, that's been the pattern with Boxer and her elitist, liberal agenda from the beginning; which only goes to show, once again, how out-of-touch liberal elites like Barbara Boxer are..(slightly muted hissing and static sounds as "Sean's" program temporarily freezes, go to commercial).

    Parent
    Since I don't watch or listen to Hannity (3.00 / 2) (#37)
    by BTAL on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 04:15:26 PM EST
    I appreciate you keeping me up with the cliff notes.  Good job and keep up the good work!

    Parent
    so, you turn down (none / 0) (#40)
    by jondee on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 04:26:42 PM EST
    the volume or change the channel when his segment comes on?

    Parent
    Nope, haven't seen Fox News (none / 0) (#45)
    by BTAL on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 04:40:04 PM EST
    for at least the last 9 months or more.

    Parent
    Or, ... (5.00 / 2) (#46)
    by Yman on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 04:44:59 PM EST
    He was responding to a specific question and Ma'am is an acceptable term.  She just wanted to act self-important over a GO.

    ... she was gently correcting him and requesting he use the proper term ("Senator") rather than you believe is an "acceptable" term.

    Unless, of course ...

    ... you can read her mind.

    Parent

    Guess it was also indicative of her polite (none / 0) (#48)
    by BTAL on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 04:50:22 PM EST
    professionalism by interrupting before he finished his statement/sentence.

    My "belief" comes from an entire military career where all training and education specifically taught Ma'am was an acceptable and respectful term of address.

    Parent

    You can respectfully interrupt ... (5.00 / 2) (#70)
    by Yman on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 06:02:47 PM EST
    ... someone before they continue to address you incorrectly, which is what she did.

    BTW - Your "belief" that I questioned was not intent of the general, but what you claimed were Senator Boxer's motives in trying "to act self-important over a GO."

    BBTW - Did your entire career where all training and education" include the proper way to address US Senators, or just women in general?  If they taught you to address US Senators as "Ma'am", they got it wrong.

    Parent

    I agree; it's fine when my vet students (none / 0) (#63)
    by Cream City on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 05:47:14 PM EST
    and active-military students "ma'am" me, in the case of a yes-or-no question to which, if the Senator is a man, the reply would be "yessir."   Vets respect authority, almost without exception among many, many on our campuses now, and are very careful to use correct titles in other contexts, such as opening a conversation, emailing, etc.

    So, as ever, context of the conversation matters.

    And it beats calling me "sir" -- as some of my foreign students, still grappling with English, have done . . . the first time.  They, like so many of our vets, often come from cultures that put a lot of emphasis on courtesy, respect, etc., and on the importance of proper formalities, so they learn fast . . . while the other, American and non-vet younger students still are addressing their future job references as "hey you" or "yo."

    Parent

    I agree with your general point ... (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by Yman on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 06:10:44 PM EST
    ... (no pun intended) of vets being respectful to others in authority, and I don't question this general's sincerity in trying to be respectful with his reply.  I just don't have much patience for those who claim to be able to interpret Boxer's "real" motives simply because she corrected him and asked to be addressed as "Senator".

    Parent
    Whether Boxer made a verbal tpyo OR was simply (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by Ellie on Fri Sep 24, 2010 at 06:23:53 AM EST
    ... asking for the same accuracy of honorific and respect of position that's being directed the General's way, slamming Boxer for arrogance is unwarranted.

    Can't have it both ways favoring "your" side.

    Parent

    Looks like not a yes or no question. (none / 0) (#17)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 03:34:41 PM EST
    Youtube. Also does not look disrespective.

    Parent
    The Hot Air blog points out that Walsh had address (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 03:45:38 PM EST
    The Hot Air blog points out that Walsh had addressed Senator David Vitter as "sir," not "Senator," in the same hearing.


    Parent
    Well (none / 0) (#28)
    by squeaky on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 03:52:43 PM EST
    Obviously Gen Walsh screwed that one up as well.

    VItter is clearly does not deserve the respect of being called sir.

    And, just in case you were wondering, sir and maam are not equal, IOW language is not like math.

    Must be because there is so much sexism embedded in our language.

    Parent

    Ya, fair enough, they're not equal. (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 04:07:07 PM EST
    However, according to Language and Gender in the Military, in the military environment the use of maam and sir is obligatory and are rendered to officers of superior rank. I know, I know, the senate is not a military environment.

    Parent
    Back in the day when I used to call (none / 0) (#55)
    by oculus on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 05:29:41 PM EST
    the Navy cargo ship to which my husband was assigned, the always male officer of the day invariably answerd, office of the day, may I help you sir?

    Parent
    arrogant my as* (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by jondee on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 03:23:46 PM EST
    I realize any interpretation offal-for-brains Hannity puts forth HAS to be true (if I may be so arrogant), but she said that in a very polite deferential way: "would you please?..it's just a thing..I worked very hard to get that title.."

    Arrogant. Really. You have to come up with better stuff than that.  

    Parent

    I see some the "arrogance" sensitive (none / 0) (#13)
    by jondee on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 03:28:53 PM EST
    commenters at youtube already have him up to four stars..lol

    another mini-example of the dumb-down-through-dishonesty tactics of our friends on the Right.

    Parent

    the "silly season" (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by CST on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 03:49:55 PM EST
    is officially here

    Parent
    Sounds like Fiorina doesn't (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by brodie on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 03:53:52 PM EST
    want the campaign discussion to be about her role outsourcing jobs at H-P.  

    She'd rather try to change the topic to silly personal attacks involving nothing of real importance to the voting public.

    Parent

    Starting w/the open mic comment (none / 0) (#38)
    by oculus on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 04:20:30 PM EST
    re Sen. Boxer's hair.

    Parent
    Interesting book review. Author of the (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by oculus on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 03:08:43 PM EST
    book is a U.S. Naval Academy graduate.  Will this become a movie?  NYT

    Interesting indeed. (none / 0) (#9)
    by lilburro on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 03:20:50 PM EST
    His ideas, as he arrives at them, are held up as almost uniformly awesome.

    Made me laugh...

    I'll have to recommend it to my dad.  He was on a nuclear submarine as well (though not via Annapolis).  Check out the cover, much more subdued than I expected.

    Parent

    I am opting for John Le Carre's (none / 0) (#21)
    by oculus on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 03:37:59 PM EST
    newest novel.

    Parent
    Well no one handles (none / 0) (#15)
    by brodie on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 03:31:19 PM EST
    the theme of phony unexamined flag-waving patriotism and coming of age during wartime better than Ollie Stone, so I nominate him to do the movie honors.  And it would nicely complement Platoon and Born on the Fourth of July as well as W.

    Parent
    brodie, (none / 0) (#22)
    by jondee on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 03:38:03 PM EST
    have you seen South of the Border yet?

    Parent
    No but hope to (none / 0) (#27)
    by brodie on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 03:51:59 PM EST
    check out the DVD when it's available.  You saw it?  Reactions?

    I'm looking forward, hopefully this weekend, to his new Wall St movie.  Big Stone fan mostly, though not every last one of his films.

    Parent

    Hell yeah... (none / 0) (#30)
    by kdog on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 03:55:33 PM EST
    psyched to peep Wall St. II myself...probably not for a couple weeks so pass on your thoughts if you see it brodie.

    I saw Afleck's bankrobber flick "The Town" the other night...entertaining, but didn't live up to the rave reviews it's been getting.  The bank robbery and car chases were cool, if totally unrealistic.  Nobody robs banks with machine guns anymore, they use notes!

    Parent

    I was waiting for wider distribution of (none / 0) (#42)
    by oculus on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 04:30:17 PM EST
    "The Town."  Probably don't care now.

    Parent
    No, but it's high on my to-see list (none / 0) (#43)
    by jondee on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 04:38:07 PM EST


    Parent
    I'm going to have to read it (none / 0) (#74)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 06:14:07 PM EST
    It sounds great.

    Parent
    hey BTD (5.00 / 4) (#14)
    by Makarov on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 03:30:15 PM EST
    Looks like my creeping suspicions were right. There won't be a tax cut vote prior to the election:

    http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/09/house-dems-punt-on-upper-income-bush-tax-cuts.php?ref=fpa

    Democrats shooting themselves in the foot. Why not let Republicans vote against 'a permanent middle class tax cut'?

    Easy, because Obama et al don't really want one. They want themselves and their $30K/plate owners to get one too.

    Here's one easy way to link: (none / 0) (#19)
    by oculus on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 03:37:04 PM EST
    [link url]

    Parent
    Well, no one is going to get one anytime soon (none / 0) (#24)
    by ruffian on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 03:46:12 PM EST
    Dems missed an easy pre-election lay-up, but all in all, I'm good with letting all the tax cuts expire and having a look at it again in 2011 or even 2012 when the middle class is mad because their taxes got raised, Obama can sell cuts as true cuts, and Congress might not be so particular about ensuring the rich get tax cuts too.

    Parent
    Excuse me, but (none / 0) (#99)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 11:28:49 PM EST
    your political strategy would hit me really hard in the pocketbook in a way that I cannot afford if I'm to feed myself and stay warm over the winter.  I'm literally dead if they don't renew that tax cut.

    Parent
    It always seemed to me that Boehner's (none / 0) (#108)
    by ruffian on Fri Sep 24, 2010 at 08:44:43 AM EST
    bargaining position was better, for just that reason. He can afford to hold the middle class tax cuts hostage because people need them so badly. Probably there will be a lame duck session measure passed to just extend all the tax cuts.

    Parent
    And so the party of the middle class sold out... (none / 0) (#25)
    by mogal on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 03:47:17 PM EST
    there is not a bit of difference in the parties anymore. This is a sad day.

    They stole the presidential election and we didn't fight for democracy.

    They stole the democraic party primary and we did fight for democracy.

    They stole from the middle class and we didn't fight for democracy.

    And then there was nothing left to fight for.

    Parent

    Fk the middle class. (none / 0) (#91)
    by lentinel on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 07:56:12 PM EST
    The party of the middle class.
    What horsemanure.

    If either party took care for the poorest among us, the rest would take care of itself.

    Obama and the Dems are just pandering when they make claims about wanting to better things for the middle class.
    It really is insulting to be referred to by these millionaire aholes as middle class. Who the hell are they?

    And the proof of it all is that they don't even want to do anything meaningful for the middle class anyway. They're going to hide until after the election when they will extend, reluctantly, the Bush tax cuts for the upper class.

    I am so tired of these crocks that I almost welcome flakes like O'Donnell.

    Parent

    thanks lentinel (none / 0) (#103)
    by DFLer on Fri Sep 24, 2010 at 08:08:24 AM EST
    NOBODY talks about the poor anymore. It's all the the vaunted middle class. What is the economic definition of middle class now?

    Parent
    Double-digit hikes for some Medicare drug plans (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by nycstray on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 04:26:11 PM EST
    lovely . . .

    WASHINGTON - Millions of seniors face double-digit hikes in their Medicare prescription premiums next year unless they shop for cheaper coverage, a new analysis of government data finds.

    Premiums will go up an average of 10 percent among the top 10 drug plans that have signed up about 70 percent of seniors, according to an analysis of Medicare data by Avalere Health, a private research firm.

    Marketing for next year's drug plans gets under way Oct. 1, and seniors will see some of the biggest changes since the Medicare prescription benefit became available in 2006. More than 17 million are enrolled in private drug plans offered through Medicare.

    link

    According to the article, (none / 0) (#47)
    by MO Blue on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 04:47:43 PM EST
    I may actually pay less next year for my AARP Preferred plan. Was thinking of going to a cheaper plan next year but maybe not if my current plan actually costs less. Will have to take a close look at what is being offered.  

    Parent
    I just learned the malaria pills the M.D. (none / 0) (#51)
    by oculus on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 05:02:32 PM EST
    prescribed will cost me $225 unless my Blue Shield HMO will kick in.  So far--no.  

    Parent
    Why do they say you are not covered for (none / 0) (#57)
    by MO Blue on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 05:35:40 PM EST
    that particular drug?

    Parent
    At the moment they are telling the (none / 0) (#58)
    by oculus on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 05:38:55 PM EST
    doctor's office they never heard of me!  But, there are also cheaper anti-malarial drugs but the physician says they are not indicated for me due to other prescriptions drugs I am taking.  

    Parent
    Bet they know who you are when they collect (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by MO Blue on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 05:49:34 PM EST
    their premiums from you or your employer every month.

    BTW, you are supposed to bring home souvenirs from your travels abroad and not malaria. ;-)

    Parent

    I'm trying! But must resist the urge (5.00 / 2) (#68)
    by oculus on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 05:52:56 PM EST
    this time to accumulate "stuff."  Need a pashmina or six?

    Parent
    From what I can determine pashmina (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by MO Blue on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 06:10:27 PM EST
    would be really hard to resist. As I've told a friend of mine who has recently inherited a few bucks, sometimes it is O.K. just to buy an article of clothing because you like it and not just because you need it.

    Parent
    He brought me home one that (none / 0) (#86)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 06:48:50 PM EST
    is trying to mimic camo.  It is soooooooo ugly.  I can't imagine what he was thinking.  Will it be cold enough here this winter for the dogs to need a scarf?

    Parent
    Ughhh. Didn't see any like that. (none / 0) (#95)
    by oculus on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 09:42:05 PM EST


    Parent
    Probably a very limited number (none / 0) (#106)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 24, 2010 at 08:21:39 AM EST
    available, it would require some camo inspiration I think along with a desire to sell something to these camo clad people with all this money :)

    Parent
    This happened to me with Tricare (none / 0) (#83)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 06:45:49 PM EST
    once and I already had the prescription and had taken some of the meds.  It is stoopid.  Obviously your physician prescribed something newer and pricey and there is an older cheaper drug they expect you to take.  What do you do though?  Call the doctor and hope that the doctor finds the time to remedy the situation and doesn't forget about you?  Because he/she was laying around their office bored and waiting for your next call.

    Parent
    How cool would it be... (none / 0) (#87)
    by kdog on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 06:52:03 PM EST
    if you could go to the doctor for a reco, do your own research, and go to the drugstore and be able to buy whatever you want. Competing varieties of the same stuff, sh*t would be on sale!

    I'm tellin' ya, ya think I'm crazy but the prescription system sucks.

    Parent

    Except some of the malaria prevention (5.00 / 2) (#96)
    by oculus on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 09:44:37 PM EST
    drugs work better in some venues than others.  And then there are the drug interactions.  I prefer the M.D. decide which is appropriate for moi.

    Parent
    But (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by dead dancer on Fri Sep 24, 2010 at 07:06:08 AM EST
    it would be nice to have the option. No?

    Parent
    Exactly... (5.00 / 1) (#107)
    by kdog on Fri Sep 24, 2010 at 08:26:15 AM EST
    in a free drug market, you could still follow your doctor's reco and buy exactly what he tells you to buy, and the insurance company can still play their game as to what they cover and what they don't.

    Parent
    What do you think this is kdog? (none / 0) (#109)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Sep 24, 2010 at 08:45:16 AM EST
    Mexico or South Korea :)?

    Parent
    A man can dream... (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by kdog on Fri Sep 24, 2010 at 09:02:43 AM EST
    about controlling his own destiny and pursuing happiness and treatment as he sees fit...did the Pledge to America cover any of this brand of big government tyranny specifically? LOL

    Hey Oc...want me to see what they're charging for the malaria meds in beautiful Mexico next week?  

    Parent

    Yahoo (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by lentinel on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 05:04:35 PM EST
    Just read that the US delegation walked out on President Ahmadinejad's speech to the UN. It just looks so dumb to me.

    The Times report, written very objectively, said that the speech was being held in a building (the UN) that was located "just a few dozen blocks from the World Trade Center site". (!)

    Besides the fact that it is more like four dozen when you consider adding on the distance between the East River (UN) and the Hudson River (WTC), and the distance from Houston Street to the WTC it is really lousy journalism.

    It adds fuel to the fire of those who seek to move the UN elsewhere.

    But Goddam.
    Are we so thin-skinned and, frankly, dumb, that we won't listen to someone saying stuff we don't want to hear in an International Forum?

    How are we ever going to deal with this guy - a potentially powerful adversary - if we don't enter into a dialogue? If we don't know what he is thinking and saying? Not to mention to observe the reactions of other delegates in the room?

    Obama, at the start of his campaign, said he would meet with folks like Ahmadinejad without preconditions. It was one of the few thing he said that made me take notice and have a spark of hope that intelligence might enter the American political scene. Forget about it.

    Hillary assailed him as naive. He folded almost immediately and now we have another example of the fruit of his administration hanging on to the stupidity of his predecessor.

    Didn't Pres. Obama recently say (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by oculus on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 05:31:50 PM EST
    he couldn't rule out U.S. attack on Iran if Iran persists re nuclear development?

    Parent
    If I'm not mistaken, (5.00 / 2) (#59)
    by lentinel on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 05:43:16 PM EST
    he even wound up saying it during the campaign - as did McCain and Hillary.

    He even wouldn't rule out the use of nuclear weapons.

    What a choice we had.

    Parent

    Meanwhile Obama admins. oks (5.00 / 2) (#62)
    by oculus on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 05:46:34 PM EST
    sale of billions of dollars worth of heavy armaments to Saudi Arabia, home of the 9-11 terrorists.  Amazing.

    Parent
    but, but... (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by lentinel on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 06:16:39 PM EST
    he said we were attacked from Afghanistan...

    Parent
    Yes, and where is the (none / 0) (#104)
    by DFLer on Fri Sep 24, 2010 at 08:10:51 AM EST
    "the people speak in honor of 911 victims" protest against that?

    Parent
    If I'm (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by lentinel on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 05:09:41 PM EST
    not mistaken, we are about to have an American state execute a woman who is simultaneously described as having an IQ of 70, being on the borderline of mental retardation, and being a "mastermind".

    no, you are not mistaken. (none / 0) (#54)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 05:24:16 PM EST
    Those descriptions of her apparently are, though.

    Parent
    For those following the Feingold race (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by Cream City on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 05:54:26 PM EST
    . . . there are more new polls out today, with different timing, pools, methodologies, etc., that also put him behind his opponent, the wannabe "Senator Sunspots," if not by as much as did the Dkos poll.  

    More here at a new blog by the senior political reporter for the major newspaper in Wisconsin that will follow the campaign closely in weeks ahead -- and will continue to attempt to explain the state, too.

    Other local political blogs are at the JS site, and many more of all political stripes always can be found at wisopinion.com; also useful for finding non-blog coverage, reports, etc., is its partner, wispolitics.com.

    What would be interesting (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by lentinel on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 07:09:24 PM EST
    little optimism I have for the future of the US would be further diminished were Feingold to be defeated.

    Parent
    My (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by lentinel on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 08:04:56 PM EST
    subject above should have simply read, "what" -
    the rest filled in automatically from some previous subject and I did not catch it in time.

    I was trying to convey how a Feingold loss would feel to me - especially to someone who is peddling sunspots as the cause of the melting of the ice caps.

    And speaking of ice caps - I heard on the BBC that the melting of the ice caps is being seen as a marvelous investment opportunity by the US, Russia and Norway among others. It seems as if all that awful ice has been concealing vast deposits of oil.

    See - global warming and death to all human and animal life has its bright side.

    Parent

    That reminds me of (none / 0) (#94)
    by jondee on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 08:25:46 PM EST
    an old SNL skit, in which Bill Murray, playing a post-nuclear-apocalypse entrepeneur, was marketing a new line of cosmetics for people who'd undergone radiation-induced mutations.

    Now's your chance to get in on the ground floor..

    Parent

    A lil something.... (none / 0) (#2)
    by kdog on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 03:02:19 PM EST
    to feel better about our country, by putting another down:)

    Some Pastor Jones wanna-bes over in the UK burned some koran-age, and out came the chains.  How Taliban of the Brits...what, no stoning has been scheduled?  

    Summers resignation-- any comments here, (none / 0) (#4)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 03:08:23 PM EST
    or do we await possible replacements?

    All I can say (none / 0) (#33)
    by Zorba on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 04:04:56 PM EST
    is that I'm reasonably sure that he will be replaced with a corporate-friendly neoliberal.  Either a big-business/big-finance person, or a Clinton retread, or a Chicago University School of Economics/Milton Friedman edition "economist."  If I'm wrong, I'll be the most delighted person on the planet.  But I'll bet I'm not wrong.  (Elizabeth Warren, Paul Krugman, or Joseph Stiglitz would be my choices.)

    Parent
    If it is someone who can stimulate (none / 0) (#80)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 06:39:16 PM EST
    businesses to reinvesting in workers and U.S. manufacturing while getting along with Warren, I am all about that today.  It isn't impossible, just really hard work.

    Parent
    I agree (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by Zorba on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 06:48:21 PM EST
    But I'm not at all optimistic about that at all, Tracy.  This administration has not shown to me that they are friendly to the average American worker, unfortunately.  

    Parent
    oops...typos again (none / 0) (#81)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 06:39:53 PM EST
    stimulating business INTO

    Parent
    Heard rumors (none / 0) (#111)
    by jbindc on Fri Sep 24, 2010 at 09:17:49 AM EST
    It's going to be Anne Mulcahey, former CEO of Xerox.

    Parent
    Tend to agree with Zorba (none / 0) (#44)
    by MO Blue on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 04:39:13 PM EST
    Replacement will be to all intents and purposes a clone of Summers.

    Parent
    Not cloneable (5.00 / 2) (#79)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 06:37:26 PM EST


    Parent
    Thank God (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 11:25:27 PM EST


    Parent
    Don't let the door hit you in your big (none / 0) (#78)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 06:36:48 PM EST
    fat arrogant briefcase Larry :)

    Parent
    From the... (none / 0) (#7)
    by kdog on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 03:13:02 PM EST
    "police and thieves" file, a real doozy...

    Dude comes home from work, a couple thugs try to carjack him...he's able to fight 'em off.  Calls the police, they give him the business, and murder the family dog.

    Prince George's County, MD (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by Zorba on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 03:55:56 PM EST
    law enforcement officers seem to delight in shooting and killing dogs.  This isn't the first time.  Or even the second time.

    Parent
    Noticed that too Z... (none / 0) (#32)
    by kdog on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 03:58:23 PM EST
    quite a disturbing pattern down MD way.

    Parent
    Yes, kdog (none / 0) (#34)
    by Zorba on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 04:07:06 PM EST
    They seem to have a distressing pattern of "shoot first, ask questions later."  And, even worse, a pattern of "let's assume our citizens are guilty, guilty, guilty....forget the Constitution."

    Parent
    To be fair... (none / 0) (#60)
    by kdog on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 05:43:43 PM EST
    it's a national trend...not just MD.

    I regret it now, but I had to get a peak at the reality show "DEA" on Spike, have you seen it?Brutal.  They were in Jersey somewhere trying to bust a reefer cop spot...pulling people over and stopping pedestrians till they could get somebody on anything, then trying to flip 'em to informer right on the spot and go make a buy for 'em. It was worse than I thought and you know how I think.  Reckless and ridiculous.

    Parent

    Are actual DEA agents participating (none / 0) (#61)
    by oculus on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 05:45:13 PM EST
    on screen?  Surprising.

    Parent
    OT Kdog, but you'll love this... (none / 0) (#64)
    by Dadler on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 05:47:39 PM EST
    My $7.50 in freeroll money is now up to $1,875

    Parent
    What? (none / 0) (#75)
    by kdog on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 06:16:14 PM EST
    Holy sh*t...as they say at the tables, you've got a horseshoe up your arse my friend!  

    You're given me the jones but I'm on the gambling wagon, looking forward to falling off again soon.

    Caught this editorial yesterday on that very subject, check it out.  Love this bit.

    Legislation to restrict online gambling passed Congress four years ago only because it was tacked onto a bill related to port security at the eleventh hour. The bill's main proponent was former Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist (R-Tenn.), a man who admitted that during his medical school days, he collected cats from animal shelters under the false pretense of providing a home for them, and then killed them while conducting medical experiments. Forgive me if I - and the other 101,310 people logged into Full Tilt Poker as I write this - won't accept him as our moral compass.


    Parent
    Hit big in a 550 player tourney (none / 0) (#93)
    by Dadler on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 08:13:26 PM EST
    Gonna cash for a grand tomorrow. Not bad for absophuckinglutely nothing.

    As for the cat killer, yeah, amazing how sociopaths always moralize the loudest.

    Parent

    Of course, once anyone (none / 0) (#71)
    by jondee on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 06:06:13 PM EST
    gets their own teevee show, they automatically achieve at least partial righteous, hero status in the eyes of some (many?) in this country.

    Sometimes I wonder if the people who put these shows together feel they have to mollify those who they may to rely on to guard their gated communities in the not-so-distant future..

    Parent

    Not a bad theory... (none / 0) (#77)
    by kdog on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 06:33:10 PM EST
    They'd make excellent mercs.

    Parent
    Oh, they double as a lot (none / 0) (#82)
    by jondee on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 06:42:16 PM EST
    of things, in my experience. A lot of them have their own little throw-each-other-a-job, rent-a thug, old boy network going. Don't get me started. Bad memories..

     

    Parent

    I hear ya... (none / 0) (#85)
    by kdog on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 06:48:23 PM EST
    best not to dwell on such matters...it is what it is and it ain't pretty.

    Parent
    Oh, it's too true, Dog (none / 0) (#88)
    by Zorba on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 07:01:14 PM EST
    It's a national trend.  And, in a sense, I almost can't blame the local cops- they are just taking their cues from the whole federal "let's ignore the Constitution" attitude, backed up by a largely supine judiciary that allows them to get away with it.  I haven't seen "DEA," and I'm not sure I want to.  It will only raise my blood pressure.  (There's a reason that I've been a member of the ACLU for over 25 years.  I can't stand any of this kind of sh!t.)  

    Parent
    This doesn't speak to the shooting of (none / 0) (#41)
    by oculus on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 04:28:32 PM EST
    the dog but may illuminate why law enforcement may not have been thinking this family were entirely victims for purposes of investigation:

    The brother managed to fight them off, ran into the house and came back out firing his gun.

    and

    After a shootout with the alleged robbers, the two brothers called police.



    Parent
    Of course (none / 0) (#49)
    by jondee on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 04:56:05 PM EST
    because how the police said it happened, is always exactly how it happened. Because they never go off half-cocked and would never lie about it if they did.

    Parent
    The portions of the news report I quoted (none / 0) (#50)
    by oculus on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 04:58:34 PM EST
    are unattributed.  

    Parent
    you and I (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by jondee on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 07:31:11 PM EST
    both know 99% of the time it usually comes from an unchallenged police report. Just as prosecutors always get to draw first blood in making their case in the media about "what really happened" after an arrest is made in a high profile case.

    That kind of thing may make some people's jobs easier, but doesn't do much for the furthering of the pursuit of justice.

    Parent

    Sounds as if in this particular case the (none / 0) (#97)
    by oculus on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 09:47:21 PM EST
    family got to the press first and law enforcement had to dig out the arrest reports and respond second.  

    Parent
    Key word "may"... (none / 0) (#65)
    by kdog on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 05:47:40 PM EST
    it's gonna take half the lights on Broadway to illuminate this puppy.

    Parent
    As ever. Just the facts, sir. (none / 0) (#67)
    by oculus on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 05:51:12 PM EST


    Parent
    Atlanta pastor being sued (none / 0) (#8)
    by jbindc on Thu Sep 23, 2010 at 03:18:33 PM EST
    for allegedly coercing teenage boys into sexual relationships

    Rains and floods in southern Minnesota (none / 0) (#105)
    by DFLer on Fri Sep 24, 2010 at 08:17:02 AM EST
    Ground is already well-soaked. Crops are ready to harvest, but fields are too wet or flooded. It's a little too cool for the season and therefore evaporation is slowed. All the groundwater is likely to remain in the soil, freeze in the winter and add to the danger of spring floods. I live three blocks from the Mississippi, but no danger there due to the levees. It's the streams and creeks all around that can't handle all the rain. At least nobody's dying.

    Bringing the truthiness (none / 0) (#112)
    by ruffian on Fri Sep 24, 2010 at 10:02:18 AM EST
    Stephen Colbert's testimony before Congress.

    I'm afraid to watch. I am serioulsy in love with Stephen and don't want to ruin it.

    Thursday Afternoon Open Thread | 123 comments (123 topical)

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