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Liberals Can Be Dumb Too

Case in point, via Digby, Jamelle Bouie of The American Prospect bemoaning Markos' new book American Taliban:

In another chapter, Moulitsas quotes a sermon by former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay: "Only Christianity offers a comprehensive worldview that covers all areas of life and thought, every aspect of creation. Only Christianity offers a way to live in response to the realities that we find in this world -- only Christianity." And how does Moulitsas respond to that banal statement of exclusive truth, heard weekly by millions of law-abiding, patriotic Americans? With this comically reductionist conclusion: "For DeLay, only Christianity offers a methodology for daily life, whereas for Osama bin Laden, only Islam does." Also, Hitler was a vegetarian.

(Emphasis supplied.) What in the hell is that supposed to mean? Markos' point is that theocratic tendencies found in extremist movements and regimes around the world are also a part of the Extreme Right in the United States. This is a bit more than being a vegetarian, as any C student of world history could explain to you. A C student of American history could also tell you that religious freedom was one of the cornerstone ideals of our Founding Fathers. In any event, now we know -- liberals can be just as dumb as conservatives. Digby has more.

Speaking for me only

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    What in the hell is that about? (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 02:01:04 PM EST
    I'm rolling on the floor giggling.  I have no false idol of the Kos anywhere in my house, he's just a dude.  But this is cracking me up to NO END
    Now, to be sure, American Taliban is clearly meant for activist consumption. Unlike myself, Moulitsas isn't a journalist, and his job isn't to be an honest broker for ideas

    Buwhahahahahahahahahaha....my life, surrounded by all these honest "journalists" preforming that daily job of being "honest brokers for ideas".  Whoa boy, it is thick in here and deep too.  One sentence comes to mind....the New York Times and the run up to the Iraq War :)

    Oh Oh Oh what was that one thing that Kos said that one time about demonstrations and activists going to there demonstration that really chapped me?  Something about how they were useless.  Was he meaner than that, did he say they were stupid?  I can't remember.  Anyhow, the Kos has now produced a book solely for activists consumption...Heh!

    Surprised you've kept the faith there (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 02:07:02 PM EST
    after the "women's studies" stuff.

    Parent
    That is completely because of Armando (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 02:12:17 PM EST
    There was this guy called Armando that was there during all that and he said a few times, "Hey, I know he isn't getting it but he is young and I am working with him".  So I let him live....a little longer :)  That was when I did have HOPE :)

    He hasn't said anything that stupid since then.  And he did hire all those girls right after that, and I sneered about it until I got over it...because he kept a lot of girls on :)  They saved his a$$, and probably his soul too :)

    Parent

    I didn't care for some of the stuff Kos (5.00 / 5) (#17)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 02:15:22 PM EST
    sd. about Hillary Clinton and her campaign while he was so vigorously supporting Obama.  Yes, I'm bitter.  However, I am not clinging to either guns or my religions.

    Parent
    Yeah, he was a hater then too (none / 0) (#29)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 04:14:58 PM EST
    But I didn't pay attention to him much then.  I still don't.

    Parent
    I'm caught on his site (none / 0) (#30)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 04:15:33 PM EST
    usually only uprating "activists" :)

    Parent
    Are you getting his e mails? I need (none / 0) (#49)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 07:58:41 PM EST
    to unsubscribe.

    Parent
    I don't get his emails (none / 0) (#52)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 08:26:49 PM EST
    I did once but I got a new email account.

    Parent
    Naw (none / 0) (#74)
    by hookfan on Thu Sep 02, 2010 at 11:52:18 AM EST
    Clinging to your gun will likely lead to disaster-- like shooting yourself in the foot! You have to learn to snuggle up, take aim at the right target(harder than expected these days), slowly breath out, and oh so lovingly squeeze the trigger. Prevents circular firing squads and such. . . figuratively speaking of course. . .

    Parent
    Did you just (none / 0) (#16)
    by hookfan on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 02:15:08 PM EST
    call women "girls"? Oy! Or is it "oink"? Sometimes I think I'm just old. . .

    Parent
    Is it a slam to call women girls? (none / 0) (#28)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 04:09:52 PM EST
    Used to be (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by hookfan on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 04:30:43 PM EST
    cf the girls in the office vs the "men". Who are the grown ups? And you live in the South, "Honey". . .Who do you think the "men" take seriously?
      But like I say, perhaps I'm just old and prefer equal titles of mutual respect. what do you think, "Sweety"?

    Parent
    Men in the South aren't men (none / 0) (#39)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 05:30:37 PM EST
    they are too pudgey to be men :)  I mean seriously, one thought that what I really wanted more than anything in this world was a trailer full of rocks.

    Parent
    You noticed (none / 0) (#68)
    by hookfan on Thu Sep 02, 2010 at 11:14:27 AM EST
    "men" was in quotes, didn't ya? Come on admit it. . .

    Parent
    Hey, and you know who was a (none / 0) (#42)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 05:37:06 PM EST
    serious woman over at Orange....Miss Laura.  If there ever was an inner girl within Miss Laura she beat it to death at birth.

    Parent
    Ha! (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 07:56:25 PM EST
    You are a "mean girl." (5.00 / 2) (#51)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 08:01:12 PM EST
    I think it is ok for a bunch of women (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 07:57:48 PM EST
    who are friends to refer to the whole bunch as "girls."  I once chastized a waiter who called our bunch "girls."  He sd. he doesn't usually but we were having so much fun.  

    Parent
    I call time out with my female (none / 0) (#53)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 08:29:20 PM EST
    friends girl's night out or girl get togethers.

    Parent
    Oh (none / 0) (#69)
    by hookfan on Thu Sep 02, 2010 at 11:24:09 AM EST
    I forgot Markos was a "girl". . .Or is he just getting "pudgy"? It would make a difference if he was a "girl" or "pudgy" as he's the one who "hired the girls". . . Maybe I can ask Governor Arnold what are the qualifications for a "girly man"? Or would that make me unisexist?

    Parent
    his soul is long gone (none / 0) (#31)
    by shaharazade on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 04:16:06 PM EST
     as a soul is not reality based, but now that he is out of the gates again he may find that being pragmatic might actually include listening to the Democratic base and not schilling for the new normal. You can't have it both ways either these are scary lunatics, a serious threat or they are your by=partisan partners who must be compromised with. Turning pages on the reality that you considered to be worth fighting for isn't pragmatic or reality based, but neither is saying that theses American Taliban are not dangerous.  

    Parent
    shilling for a new normal (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 05:33:07 PM EST
    is partially how we have arrived at a new sucksville.  He is still young, and this girl :) is still too mean spirited and bitter to take him terribly seriously.

    Parent
    If I were (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by hookfan on Thu Sep 02, 2010 at 11:31:07 AM EST
    of the right gender and race, I'd say, "You go girl!" But my dog ate my rules card, and I no longer know whether that's appropriate for an old white fuddy dud. . .

    Parent
    By the way (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by hookfan on Thu Sep 02, 2010 at 11:32:45 AM EST
    my dog is a female bitch. I wonder if that's why she ate my rule card. . .?

    Parent
    Me neither (none / 0) (#91)
    by shaharazade on Thu Sep 02, 2010 at 06:09:19 PM EST
    but I do take the blog he has created along with others, quite seriously. Perhaps this is wrong as it's POV is now the new normal. The gates crashed like an onion only seem to offer new gates. I stay because I think since I started there I should finish there. I also have a belief in the human spirit and the Democratic voters are at least and in most part liberals who work for the common good no matter how tossed and torn they get by the pols of mass deception. He's not that young,lol. I think that a lot of Kossacks would ban him if they could. His blog is now a business and he flits in and out. The guiding spirit is so vague that it is like a circus that uses the FAQ as fundies use the bible.    

    Parent
    The original pie fight? (none / 0) (#44)
    by MKS on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 05:44:28 PM EST
    That was a long time ago....

    Parent
    Activists? (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by shaharazade on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 02:15:41 PM EST
    Kos doesn't like activists. They are too out of the loop politically not partisan enough, not as interested in crashing the gates only to become the gatekeepers. He spawned a blog of bot's who all march to the strange concept that whatever the Democrat's do you need to STFU and GOTV. cause the reality is set in stone by the political machines that keep it all within the gates. He should stick to wonkery, numbers and like Nat Silver and Ezra spare us all his useless ideas and honest brokery. He has gotten feistier since they heaved him off MSNBC. But his reaction seems to be personal rather then politically astute.    

    Parent
    He certainly doesn't have much of a (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 05:33:40 PM EST
    history of respecting them.

    Parent
    Please, I will see silly writing (5.00 / 3) (#21)
    by Cream City on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 02:21:48 PM EST
    soon enough, with assignments starting next week from the "13th graders."

    Well, I will see some silly writing -- but this line re Hitler surpasses even some of the silliest I have seen.  And that's saying something. . . .

    When did (5.00 / 2) (#45)
    by MO Blue on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 05:45:44 PM EST
    Markos become a liberal? The Kos I read was a "win at any cost" Democrat. Not a liberal.

    Can someone remind me again (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by cawaltz on Thu Sep 02, 2010 at 06:44:59 PM EST
    which party theocrat Stupak was part of?

    Markos can wake me up when he's ready to give up the false dichtomy of this being a tendency of the right.

    There are theocrats on both sides of the aisle. Until the left fixes that(I'm not holding my breath), it doesn't make for a compelling argument against the right side of the aisle.

    oh and btw (none / 0) (#1)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 01:42:03 PM EST
    excuse me (none / 0) (#2)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 01:46:36 PM EST
    was that supposed to be the point.
    that both those clearly true statements were akin to saying Hitler was a vegetarian?

    Parent
    Sounds like Moulitsas (none / 0) (#4)
    by jondee on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 01:55:58 PM EST
    is mocking Lucianne Jr's riff in his new cat box liner "Liberal Fascism", in which Goldberg fumblingly tries to connect the push on the part of some for vegetarianism and organic foods with the followers of Hitler and Mussolini..

    Parent
    I think you've (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by Warren Terrer on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 02:17:13 PM EST
    misread it. It wasn't Markos who referred to Hitler's vegetarianism. It was Jamelle Bouie.

    Parent
    Disputed (none / 0) (#3)
    by squeaky on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 01:53:40 PM EST
    personally (none / 0) (#5)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 02:00:30 PM EST
    I have no trouble at all believing the vegetarian thing.
    some of the most vile and dangerous people I have ever known were vegetarians.

    Parent
    speaking for me only (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by CST on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 04:03:29 PM EST
    my vile and dangerous side can come out when I'm hungry.  Or at least my cranky/whiny/short-tempered/mean side.

    I think if I were a vegetarian I might be permanently dissatisfied... just sayin.

    I realize others might have sunnier dispositions under such strain.

    Parent

    You'd be surprised, I think (none / 0) (#56)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 11:47:27 PM EST
    Being a vegetarian does NOT doom you to being hungry all the time.  Far from it. You think all those vegetarian pro basketball players would tolerate being hungry?  Nah!

    The main problem with vegetarianism, at least from my point of view, is that it takes a lot more work and effort to put together really nifty meals.  I did it for a while and certainly was never hungry, but it takes more time/energy than I have in my life right now. I wish my odd life/work schedule these days allowed me the time to go back to it, but it's just vastly easier to put together a tasty meal quickly if it includes meat, unfortunately.

    Parent

    Has nothing to do with hunger (none / 0) (#72)
    by hookfan on Thu Sep 02, 2010 at 11:43:40 AM EST
    After all, most of the "men" in the South are Pudgy and perhaps rock hounds (according to MT). Naw, for the omnivores, many prefer the blood that runs down their face from raresteak and hamburger. You just don't get the same experience from vegetables. . .

    Parent
    I don't trust people... (5.00 / 2) (#62)
    by kdog on Thu Sep 02, 2010 at 08:53:31 AM EST
    who don't eat steak...but deep down I realize that's my own stupidity.

    Parent
    not it isnt (none / 0) (#64)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 02, 2010 at 08:55:09 AM EST
    trust those instincts

    Parent
    What about those who don't eat insects? (none / 0) (#73)
    by hookfan on Thu Sep 02, 2010 at 11:45:46 AM EST
    See? Many more to mistrust. After all,how many of our overlords eat insects?

    Parent
    I dont trust people (none / 0) (#75)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 02, 2010 at 11:53:34 AM EST
    who eat insects.

    Parent
    Nor should you (none / 0) (#76)
    by hookfan on Thu Sep 02, 2010 at 12:14:44 PM EST
    Now about our overlords. . .

    Parent
    hey, my brother is a vegetarian! (none / 0) (#7)
    by lilburro on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 02:04:39 PM EST
    you just called my brother dangerous and vile!

    Parent
    Wow. (none / 0) (#8)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 02:04:56 PM EST
    Some of my best friends are vegetarians!

    Parent
    Well (none / 0) (#13)
    by squeaky on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 02:11:08 PM EST
    Some of my friends are dangerous and vile....

    Parent
    them being vile and dangerous (none / 0) (#9)
    by jondee on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 02:05:54 PM EST
    probably had very little to do with them being vegetarians, though.

    It's just that there are a lot of lost people and some of them happen to be vegetarians..

    There are no enlightenment magic bullets. Would that there were.

    Parent

    didnt say there was (none / 0) (#11)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 02:09:13 PM EST
    Im just sayin.

    Parent
    Well (none / 0) (#12)
    by squeaky on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 02:09:21 PM EST
    Reading about Wagner and Hitler, it seems that they share more with PETA members than actual vegitanarians.

    It seems that many violent extremists defend animal rights to the death, usually to the death of other people though...

    Hitler had no problem with making soap out of jews but he had huge problems with cosmetics that were made from animal products...

    Recently a woman was caught on tape for putting a cat in a dumpster. The cat lived and from all accounts suffered no trauma. People were calling for her execution, slow and painful execution, and I believe that for the sake of protecting poor innocent animal rights, those calling for the torture and execution would have loved to personally carry it out.

    Parent

    The cat (5.00 / 4) (#25)
    by RenaRF on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 03:54:26 PM EST
    was in the dumpster for 15 hours until someone found it after hearing muffled cries.  And just an FYI - a cat's physiology requires many small meals throughout the day to keep everything running correctly.  Denial of food over an extended period of time (sometimes as short as 24 hours) impacts the liver by causing it to become clogged with fats that were released due to hunger but not processed as nutrients.  Denial of water (again, even over a short time period) can lead to acute kidney conditions.

    So in light of that - I'll just say - I don't think she should be executed.  But if she'd taken the cat and lit it on fire, the consequences would have been much graver.  Yet had that cat remained in the dumpster, the outcome could have been as serious.  Let's not even go there with the fact that she petted the cat first and then scruffed it and put it in the dumpster, or the fact that the cat was trying futilely to get out of said dumpster for hours on end.

    Cruelty is cruelty - whether we do it to Iraqis at Abu Ghraib or whether we put a cat in a dumpster and close the lid.  You may think that an extreme comparison, but cruelty stems from the same place, so nipping it in the bud is a benefit to ALL, human and otherwise.

    Parent

    She petted the cat (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 04:16:46 PM EST
    looked around to see if anyone was about, and then scruffed it and put it in the dumpster.  She knew she was being cruel.

    Parent
    Agreed (none / 0) (#55)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 11:43:22 PM EST
    I AM a cat person, very much so.  But I don't think very many people actually know about the fatty liver thing in cats, so likely she had no idea.  She's probably not right in the head, and confusedly thought that putting the cat in the trash barrel meant somebody would hear it and rescue it.  Why the heck people can't take an unwanted animal to the shelter, though, is beyond me.

    Parent
    "not right in the head" (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 02, 2010 at 08:48:12 AM EST
    well probably no more than lots of other people:

    Woman Who Dropped Cat in Trash Bin: It Was Fun
    45-Year-Old Bank Employee Mary Bale Tells British Tabloid: It Was a "Split-Second of Madness," Adding "It's Just a Cat"

    oh and btw
    the cat was not a stray.  it lived there.


    (CBS)   When his missing cat, Lola, was found in a trash bin, howling in distress, Darryl Mann, of Coventry, England, checked the surveillance video from a security camera outside his house.


    Parent
    why do you assume the cat was a stray (none / 0) (#59)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 02, 2010 at 07:47:36 AM EST
    and not in front of the house it belonged to?
    and why do you assume she was not "right"?
    she was smart enough to look around to make sure no one was looking.

    how about this, she was a cruel a$$hole who want to stick a cat in a trash can?

    Parent

    Actually, (none / 0) (#77)
    by RenaRF on Thu Sep 02, 2010 at 03:25:26 PM EST
    The cat wasn't hers.  It belonged to the people whose wheelie dumpster it was placed in, and it was they who heard the cat and rescued it, then checked the security tapes.

    Parent
    seriously (none / 0) (#79)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 02, 2010 at 03:37:41 PM EST
    whats up with the excuses for this sadistic cretin

    Parent
    Just one more thing on the subject (none / 0) (#78)
    by RenaRF on Thu Sep 02, 2010 at 03:35:49 PM EST
    of cats - and I should warn, I'm verifiably suffering from CCLS (Crazy Cat Lady Syndrome - smile).  

    I do a lot of rescue.  In this economy and especially in poorer areas, kill shelters are literally being overrun.  How long a cat survives in a kill shelter is a direct function of how crowded that kill shelter is. The first to be euthanized (if they're lucky - more on that in a moment) are adult cats who are surrendered by their owner(s).  The shelter assumes some behavioral issue on the part of the cat, rather than, say, financial difficulty or foreclosure on the part of the human.  The ones who aren't lucky get sold for research.  For RESEARCH (Link).

    Shelters are rarely a haven, sadly.  I routinely pull for five or six different rescue groups weekly - 6-8 cats at a time - who make it into private, no-kill rescues.  They're the lucky ones.  There are 3 million cats and kittens euthanized each year.  The key is spay/neuter programs at no cost, individual donations to no-kill rescues, and resources for those who need to rehome a cat - without taking it to a shelter.

    Parent

    thank you cat lady (none / 0) (#80)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 02, 2010 at 03:42:25 PM EST
    I currently have an orphan of the storm.  a coworker took a couple of cats in from a friend who lost a job and his kid was allergic so I ended up with him.

    he is a sweetheart.  and he is even getting used to the dogs.

    Parent

    AW... (none / 0) (#83)
    by RenaRF on Thu Sep 02, 2010 at 04:13:02 PM EST
    He's so handsome.  Did you name him?

    Parent
    his name (none / 0) (#86)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 02, 2010 at 04:34:57 PM EST
    was Jedi.  it seemed to fit.


    Parent
    What A Waste (none / 0) (#81)
    by squeaky on Thu Sep 02, 2010 at 04:07:37 PM EST
    From what I understand braised cat tastes and looks about the same as braised rabbit...  The shelters who kill cats and dogs etc should hook up with restaurants... or food banks, imo

    Too bad our cultural fetishes make us so irrational.

    Parent

    I certainly hope (none / 0) (#84)
    by RenaRF on Thu Sep 02, 2010 at 04:15:12 PM EST
    that was meant to be humorous.  I have no sense of humor on the subject - I don't eat anything that has to be murdered to make my meal.

    Parent
    Not Humorous At All (none / 0) (#88)
    by squeaky on Thu Sep 02, 2010 at 05:00:23 PM EST
    If people are going to kill animals and throw away it is a waste of good nutritious food.  Rather than being discarded they should be eaten, imo.

    You may prefer killing plants to killing animals, but for others who do eat meat, the cultural biases between pets and meat are silly, imo.

    Rabbits, fish, and pigs, are pets or meat, but cats, dogs, guinea pigs, hamsters, rats, snakes, birds, bugs, squirrel, etc, are only pets or pests, in the US.. strange, imo,

    Parent

    I actuall happen to think (none / 0) (#90)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 02, 2010 at 05:09:32 PM EST
    plants have a kind of consciousness
    not trying to be funny.


    Parent
    I keep forgetting (none / 0) (#93)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Sep 03, 2010 at 03:31:33 PM EST
    there is a such a thing.  Where I live in the NE, there aren't any.  They're all no-kill shelters.

    Parent
    hmmmm (none / 0) (#15)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 02:13:53 PM EST
    well
    as far as the cat woman.  execution, nah.
    however I would pay for the privileged of stuffing her in a closed trash can for several hours.

    and I am not even a big cat person.

    Parent

    Well You Are Infected Too... (none / 0) (#22)
    by squeaky on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 02:23:37 PM EST
    Eye for an eye is a a bad way of doing business, imo. and even more ludicrous when it is a human eye and a cat's eye...

    I certainly believe in humane treatment of animals, which includes the most humane slaughter of animals.

    But going into rage about someone putting a cat in a dumpster, when we kill rats, torture chickens, gas and poison insects to a slow death.... seems rather hypocritical....

    It must be the cultural cuteness factor that makes so many of us irrational when it comes to the unequal treatment of life that is not human.

    Parent

    Well You Are Infected Too... (none / 0) (#23)
    by squeaky on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 02:25:23 PM EST
    Eye for an eye is a a bad way of doing business, imo. and even more ludicrous when it is a human eye and a cat's eye...

    I certainly believe in humane treatment of animals, which includes the most humane slaughter of animals.

    But going into rage about someone putting a cat in a dumpster, when we kill rats, torture chickens, gas and poison insects to a slow death.... seems rather hypocritical....

    It must be the cultural cuteness factor that makes so many of us irrational when it comes to the unequal treatment of life that is not human.

    Parent

    infected (none / 0) (#46)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 05:50:10 PM EST
    I suppose I am.
    this video that was circulating the other day?

    I could care less about anyone in the stands.

    when I look at it I only feel sorry for the bull.

    Parent

    Yeah (none / 0) (#54)
    by squeaky on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 10:26:29 PM EST
    Bull fighting is very emotional.

    I was at a bullfight once in Rhonda, specially arranged for the opening of the Picasso museum in Malaga.

    It was fascinating.

    After the fight the meat was sold on the streets around the arena.

    Parent

    fascinating (none / 0) (#58)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 02, 2010 at 07:43:47 AM EST
    Im sure

    Parent
    I felt the SAME way. (none / 0) (#85)
    by RenaRF on Thu Sep 02, 2010 at 04:19:31 PM EST
    They killed the bull, by the way.  As if there was anything natural about the stressful situation they had him in.  I felt the same about Tilly the Killer Whale.  I felt for that trainer's family, but you're putting intelligent animals in stressful, unnatural situations: think to yourself - how would I feel if I was confined - imprisoned - in a stressful, unnatural situation?

    I don't eat meat.  Ever.  Gave it up 13 years ago.  I just decided that we, as a species, have no concept of restraint or respect.  We seem to believe that everything is just there for us to consume and to use.  It's more of a mentality issue for me than a cruelty issue, though cruelty is in there (although I know people who assiduously shop "cruelty free" in their meats - still wouldn't do it for me. It's one thing when you're growing and farming and hunting for the food to sustain your person or your family.  It's another when you're colonizing and over-growing and feeding over consumption and over population.  We long ago ramped into the latter.

    So to squeaky - it's not a cultural thing for me.  It's an abuse thing - abuse of everything around us, which is what humans do.  For my part, I'm going to try to lessen my own impact.

    Parent

    yeah (none / 0) (#87)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 02, 2010 at 04:38:42 PM EST
    the bull is the only one in the picture who does not have the option of not being there.

    I sort of agree about the meat thing.  but I grew up on a farm and I know that eating animals does not necessarily mean abusing them.
    I totally believe in treating them humanely in life and death.  and we do.  most of the meat I do eat still comes from the farm.  I rarely eat supermarket or even restaurant.  in fact I rarely eat meat at all.   but I eat it.  

    Parent

    There are plenty of decidedly (none / 0) (#89)
    by jondee on Thu Sep 02, 2010 at 05:02:45 PM EST
    "cultural things" the world would be better off without. Clitorectomy and abusing untouchables are cultural things too.

     

    Parent

    I remember a story about Sartre (none / 0) (#20)
    by jondee on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 02:18:05 PM EST
    and a friend of his walking through a pet cemetery in Paris, kicking some of the elaborate head stones and monuments out of frustration at the thought that each one was a monument to love withheld from 'one's fellow man'..

    Parent
    Sartre (none / 0) (#63)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 02, 2010 at 08:54:49 AM EST
    should have seen this film:

    The Gates of Heaven

    Parent

    Wagner re vivisection etc. (none / 0) (#26)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 04:01:35 PM EST
    Hey... (none / 0) (#24)
    by RenaRF on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 03:48:33 PM EST
    I'M a vegetarian!

    Parent
    Well (none / 0) (#82)
    by squeaky on Thu Sep 02, 2010 at 04:08:24 PM EST
    Plants have feelings too...

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    Save the money being paid to PPP (none / 0) (#36)
    by BTAL on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 04:40:17 PM EST
    just watch Leno's "Street Walking" clips for citizenry stupidity at its finest.

    Donate the PPP money to the WLC (Walking Lobotomized Charity).

    hilarious (none / 0) (#37)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 04:56:00 PM EST
    and terrifying.  I have absolutely no idea what I would do in that situation.

    hostages, I would guess.


    Already been done today (none / 0) (#43)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 05:38:29 PM EST
    I'll need something more original from you

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    I bet it was (none / 0) (#38)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 04:59:41 PM EST
    CVS, right?

    Do we really, really approve of calling 911 (none / 0) (#50)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 08:00:02 PM EST
    for this purpose?

    Parent
    How about the local library reference (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by oculus on Thu Sep 02, 2010 at 10:50:25 AM EST
    desk?

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    I don't... (none / 0) (#60)
    by kdog on Thu Sep 02, 2010 at 08:39:17 AM EST
    just walk away and give your business to a pharmacist who knows his arse from his elbow...I wouldn't want a clown who doesn't know there are 50 states filling my scripts anyway.

    Or hop the counter and fill your own prescription...anything but the dreaded 9-1-1.  Though Don was 100% in the right, people 100% in the right get tased too.

    Parent

    good for you (none / 0) (#66)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 02, 2010 at 09:06:03 AM EST
    and very smart.  would that I would have as much presence of mind in the same situation.

    CVS! (mumble &^%*& mumble #@!%^ mumble)

    Parent

    Oh. My. God. (none / 0) (#57)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Sep 01, 2010 at 11:51:25 PM EST
    That is absolutely incredible.  I'm stunned.

    And good for you.