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Has Obama Created A Dem Party Death Panel?

More affectionately known as the Catfood Commission. Jane Hamsher writes:

Nancy Altman and Eric Kingson, who had served as Obama’s Social Security advisors on both the campaign and his transition team, sounded the alarm in a piece that appeared in Harvard’s Nieman Watchdog entitled Has Obama created a Social Security ‘death panel’?:

President Obama and the leadership in Congress have delegated enormous, unaccountable authority to 18 unrepresentative, inordinately wealthy individuals. The 18 individuals are meeting regularly, in secret, behind closed doors, until safely beyond this year’s mid-term election. If they reach agreement, their proposal will be voted on in December by a lame duck Congress, without the benefit of open hearings and deliberations in the pertinent committees and without the opportunity for open debate and amendment on the floors of the House and Senate. Despite the speed and lack of accountability, the legislation will affect, in substantial ways, every man, woman, and child in this nation.

(Emphasis supplied.) It is also the Dem Party Death Panel as it will certainly destroy the Democratic Party for the foreseeable future if the Congress votes for the Catfood Commission's recommendations to destroy Social Security.

Change you can believe in.

Speaking for me only

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  • Display: Sort:
    hopefully (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 12:48:09 PM EST
    this is not his idea of "legacy"

    He won't even (5.00 / 4) (#2)
    by Jackson Hunter on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 12:50:41 PM EST
    fire Alan Simpson for God's sake.  If the Dem party does anything major to SS then you're right, we are deader than Dillinger.  If Obama can't see that, then he is obviously in on it because he is no fool.

    (Shakes head in disgusted frustration.)

    Jackson

    President plays golf for 4th time on (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by oculus on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 01:02:17 PM EST
    vacation.  I thought this was a mean, stupid headline.  But, really . . . .

    not everyone (none / 0) (#7)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 01:03:59 PM EST
    is into clearing brush for the press corpse

    Parent
    I am confused (none / 0) (#11)
    by me only on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 01:21:30 PM EST
    But, really... what?  

    The man is on vacation.

    Parent

    Confused? (1.50 / 4) (#14)
    by squeaky on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 01:27:52 PM EST
    It is all about Hillary... the wound.

    Parent
    squeaky plays the Hillary card (5.00 / 7) (#17)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 01:32:23 PM EST
    some things change, and some things will remain the same :)

    Parent
    I'm pretty sure that squeaky (5.00 / 10) (#19)
    by Anne on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 01:38:10 PM EST
    refers to his roll of duct tape as "Hillary;" they both have so many uses, it's easy to confuse them, you know?

    Parent
    He has three rolls (5.00 / 4) (#87)
    by Yman on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 05:17:24 PM EST
    "Hillary", "Racist!" and "bedwetter", ...

    ... and a never-ending supply of each ...

    Parent

    Bedwetter is my favorite (5.00 / 2) (#105)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 06:08:21 PM EST
    Careful - ® (5.00 / 4) (#123)
    by Yman on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 06:31:13 PM EST
    I think he has it trademarked.

    Parent
    Probably uses it (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by jondee on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 05:54:00 PM EST
    to abuse, in unforgivable fashion, another cardboard cutout..

    Parent
    the duct tape.. (none / 0) (#99)
    by jondee on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 05:54:59 PM EST
    I mean..

    Parent
    LOL! (none / 0) (#21)
    by vml68 on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 01:40:54 PM EST
    n/t

    Parent
    Squeaky is a guy (none / 0) (#24)
    by me only on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 01:47:51 PM EST
    are you sure?

    Parent
    are you? (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 01:53:26 PM EST
    does it matter?

    Parent
    You're hitting home runs today (none / 0) (#27)
    by hookfan on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 01:58:13 PM EST
    Captain. Either you or I have undergone a brain transplant.

    Parent
    different days (none / 0) (#31)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 02:04:26 PM EST
    different meds

    8-)

    Parent

    LOL (none / 0) (#34)
    by hookfan on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 02:09:37 PM EST
    me too. Maybe we see the same shrink. . .

    Parent
    Yes, calling a she a he (none / 0) (#44)
    by me only on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 02:23:43 PM EST
    isn't generally acceptable.

    Parent
    Im thinkin (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 02:29:08 PM EST
    squeaky has been called worse.

    they?

    Parent

    Clintonista (none / 0) (#48)
    by me only on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 02:33:58 PM EST
    Has nothing to do with gender. (5.00 / 3) (#51)
    by Anne on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 02:40:37 PM EST
    Has to do with:

    Need to fix almost anything - get the duct tape.

    Need a reason why someone has a negative opinion about Obama - Hillary works for that, and so much more!

    A million problems, one solution.

    Parent

    Well (1.00 / 7) (#54)
    by squeaky on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 02:44:03 PM EST
    Glad to hear that you are supporting the lazy negro meme, since oculus' golf comment has nothing to do with Hillary, and certainly nothing to do with the topic.

    Parent
    Of course it didn't (5.00 / 2) (#56)
    by jbindc on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 02:45:59 PM EST
    You were the one who mentioned Hillary after oculus' comment.

    But the strawman liveth.

    Parent

    Yes (none / 0) (#58)
    by squeaky on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 02:47:45 PM EST
    To clear up me only's confusion as to what Obama playing golf has to do with this topic.

    Parent
    Because (5.00 / 4) (#60)
    by jbindc on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 02:48:55 PM EST
    Hillary is central to a discussion about Obama playing golf...how?  Besides only in your head?

    Parent
    Something (none / 0) (#167)
    by jondee on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 10:54:47 PM EST
    about it being the same outraged avenging angels, who descended on the site in '08, being the same one's who are perpetually outraged about everything big and small related in any way to Obama..

    Why on earth would anyone feel the need to bring up Hillary, aka Our lady of Wronged Women, in that context?

    Parent

    Why? Easy (5.00 / 2) (#180)
    by Yman on Fri Aug 27, 2010 at 07:43:39 AM EST
    Because they're obsessed and bitter - trying to provoke a fight - and their only answer to any criticism of Obama, not matter how justified, is to accuse others of being "racists", "bedwetters", "avenging angels of our Lady of Wronged Women", etc.

    Oh, wait ...

    ... was that rhetorical?

    Parent

    Well, at least you did not (5.00 / 2) (#62)
    by Molly Pitcher on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 02:52:46 PM EST
    use the n-word.  Even if you did borrow an outdated southron insult.

    Parent
    Hardly Outdated (none / 0) (#82)
    by squeaky on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 04:49:45 PM EST
    The lazy welfare queen, for example is alive and well.

    Maybe in your house it is outdated, as a racist stereotype is it quite current.

    Parent

    In the sunny (hot) south (none / 0) (#111)
    by Molly Pitcher on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 06:16:40 PM EST
    welfare queens are usually assumed to be living a good deal farther north; it's pretty sweaty down here.  And I don't hear any thing about laziness either.  Would hope folks in the rest of the lower 48 would wake up to the 21st century, also.

    Parent
    Lucky You (none / 0) (#165)
    by squeaky on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 09:53:04 PM EST
    Not my experience in the South..  or North either. Racism is alive and well.

    Parent
    Down here, (none / 0) (#190)
    by Molly Pitcher on Fri Aug 27, 2010 at 02:23:05 PM EST
    we are all headed toward a color-scheme of brown.  

    Parent
    Perfect Solution IMO (none / 0) (#191)
    by squeaky on Fri Aug 27, 2010 at 02:29:18 PM EST
    Truth is that most families who have been here a few hundred years are already brown, even if they do not look it...

    that is the tough part..

    Parent

    I did no such thing, and you know it. (5.00 / 5) (#86)
    by Anne on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 05:10:38 PM EST
    You were the one who deemed Hillary as the reason oculus said what she did, Tracy commented that nothing ever changes with you in that regard; I was responding to your obsessive penchant for invoking Hillary for as many reasons as there are for using duct tape, leading you to refer to your duct tape as "Hillary."

    Since you have decided that the golf comment had nothing to do with Hillary, what should have followed was your apology for bringing her up again.

    Instead, you've gone cheap-shot once again in order to have the argument you want to have.

    That's sad, but your invoking of a racist theme where none exists is just flat-out repugnant.

    Parent

    Golfing? (none / 0) (#88)
    by squeaky on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 05:22:02 PM EST
    Well, you seem to be arguing that oculus golfing comment has nothing to do with Hillary. OK, I can accept your argument.

    What does golf have to do with the cat food commission? You appear to understand the secret symbolism that makes it on topic.

    Please explain.

    Parent

    The person who can best explain (none / 0) (#91)
    by Anne on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 05:38:26 PM EST
    what she intended by the golfing comment is oculus; I am not her spokesperson.

    Once again, I was only commenting on your predictable invocation of Hillary; maybe next time, you could try the more honest response: "I don't know what it means, maybe she's around and can explain."

    My honest take on what she said? "Maybe she meant this for the open thread."

    Parent

    Lol (none / 0) (#94)
    by squeaky on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 05:41:11 PM EST
    Funny how you take issue with my comments but, oculus... maybe she was thinking about the open thread.....

    bwahahahhaha....

    Talk about the den mother lecturing.... lol

    Parent

    Waiting For Your Explanation (none / 0) (#92)
    by squeaky on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 05:38:55 PM EST
    As to what Obama's golfing has to do with death panels....

    Lazy Obama meme appears to be the most reasonable, so far....

    Oh by the way Obama is black, and lazy is one of the more virulent racist stereotypes going..

    Parent

    It isn't my explanation to make, (5.00 / 3) (#106)
    by Anne on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 06:08:23 PM EST
    because I wasn't the one who dropped that comment into the thread, so as far as I'm concerned you will be waiting until hell freezes over.

    Ask the person who made the comment; that's generally the best way to find out what you want to know.

    As near as I can tell, the only laziness on exhibit here is yours, in expecting others to explain something they didn't say.  

    Parent

    I See (none / 0) (#108)
    by squeaky on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 06:13:20 PM EST
    It isn't my explanation to make, because I wasn't the one who dropped that comment into the thread, so as far as I'm concerned you will be waiting until hell freezes over.

    But you feel no hesitation to explain my comment...

    Tacit approval, and overt disapproval...  

    Don't worry you do not have to explain.

    Parent

    I guess you decided not to take that (5.00 / 1) (#120)
    by Anne on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 06:29:02 PM EST
    reading comprehension class this summer...if you had you might understand that I didn't explain your comment about Hillary - I expressed my reaction to it.

    There's a difference, but I don't expect you to understand what it is.

    Parent

    Clever (none / 0) (#168)
    by squeaky on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 11:16:56 PM EST
    Saint Anne

    Parent
    Factual (5.00 / 1) (#181)
    by Yman on Fri Aug 27, 2010 at 07:44:55 AM EST
    Demon Squeaky.

    Parent
    Is that you (none / 0) (#184)
    by hookfan on Fri Aug 27, 2010 at 12:59:21 PM EST
    Wormtongue? My how I've missed our conversations. . .

    Parent
    Wow (5.00 / 3) (#107)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 06:10:38 PM EST
    Speaking of meds...someone loan some to squeaky or pass them to me to make reading the rest of the thread something I can endure.

    Parent
    But it is parsimonious! (none / 0) (#59)
    by hookfan on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 02:48:44 PM EST
    It's an artistic wonder of simplicity and efficiency.

    Parent
    Parsimonious? (none / 0) (#110)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 06:14:37 PM EST
    Whew....I feel myself flunking the next Reader's Digest quiz.

    Parent
    But ,but. . . (5.00 / 1) (#162)
    by hookfan on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 09:46:17 PM EST
    I waited two weeks to use that word. It's one of the few big words I know!

    Parent
    I'm trying to figure out how to (5.00 / 1) (#169)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 11:20:35 PM EST
    use it in a conversation around here and keep a straight face.  It is a great word though.

    Parent
    I'm working on a new word (none / 0) (#183)
    by hookfan on Fri Aug 27, 2010 at 12:53:46 PM EST
    Pusillanimous-- but it looks like Mark Twain beat me too it, especially about current politics:

        * 1882 -- Mark Twain, On the Decay of the Art of Lying [1].

              Therefore, the wise thing is for us diligently to train ourselves to lie thoughtfully, judiciously; to lie with a good object, and not an evil one; to lie for others' advantage, and not our own; to lie healingly, charitably, humanely, not cruelly, hurtfully, maliciously; to lie gracefully and graciously, not awkwardly and clumsily; to lie firmly, frankly, squarely, with head erect, not haltingly, tortuously, with pusillanimous mien, as being ashamed of our high calling.

     I think it can be added as an addendum to BTD's refrain of "pols will be pols. . ." under the title, "There are Pols, then there are POLS. . ."

    Parent

    While You Are On The Letter P (none / 0) (#187)
    by squeaky on Fri Aug 27, 2010 at 01:06:16 PM EST
    Don't forget that Priapism should never be confused with Pleonasm even is the later is a function of the former...

    Parent
    Thanks (none / 0) (#188)
    by hookfan on Fri Aug 27, 2010 at 01:11:39 PM EST
    for being so up front (as it were) about things. I wouldn't want to get overly rigid and stiff by limiting myself to the p's though. . .

    Parent
    lol (none / 0) (#189)
    by squeaky on Fri Aug 27, 2010 at 01:19:08 PM EST
    Obama Playing Golf? (1.00 / 5) (#50)
    by squeaky on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 02:39:51 PM EST
    Well oculus is playing the lazy negro card.

    Parent
    Squeaky plays the race card (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by hookfan on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 02:53:07 PM EST
    Remind me not to play poker with you. . .

    Parent
    wow (5.00 / 4) (#80)
    by The Addams Family on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 04:44:57 PM EST
    looks to me like "lazy negro" is in the eye of the beholder

    as you are fond of saying: check your mirror

    just wow

    Parent

    Apparently (5.00 / 1) (#122)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 06:30:54 PM EST
    Apparently Bush was also a "lazy Negro"?  I doubt that.  Both of our incompetent presidents have a penchant for golf.  (Now watch this drive!)

    But somehow "golfing" is a code word now?  

    Boy, talk about duct tape words.

    Parent

    If eye rolls (none / 0) (#177)
    by jondee on Fri Aug 27, 2010 at 01:17:56 AM EST
    and face scratches can be code - for hidden messages some still haven't completely gotten over - why cant cracks about playing golf be code?

    Parent
    With or without (none / 0) (#185)
    by hookfan on Fri Aug 27, 2010 at 01:01:21 PM EST
    the middle finger?

    Parent
    How you got from Obama playing (5.00 / 2) (#174)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 27, 2010 at 12:06:11 AM EST
    golf to "lazy Negro" is beyond my comprehension.

    Parent
    Headlines (none / 0) (#176)
    by squeaky on Fri Aug 27, 2010 at 12:20:03 AM EST
    Critical of Obama for playing golf...  lazy meme..

    Obama plays golf while his death panel forces poor old people to eat catfood...  

    The mean spirited headlines, as you characterized them, were implying that Obama should be working not playing so much golf. IOW he is lazy.

    Parent

    Lazy meme? (5.00 / 1) (#179)
    by dk on Fri Aug 27, 2010 at 07:21:10 AM EST
    Interesting.  To me what you describe (the whole Nero fiddling while Rome burns concept) carries less of a laziness message than one of insensitivity to the suffering of one's subjects/consitituents.

    In other words, I thought the criticism of golf playing Presidents/Corporate Executives/Law Firm Partners, high priced doctors, etc. always had less of an accusation of laziness behind it than an accusation of insensitivity and out of whack priorities.  Sort of an "I've got mine, so screw the rest of you" kind of thing.  

    The counterargument to this is typically one of "Well they are human beings, don't they deserve to have a little fun just like everyone else?"  

    Parent

    Lazy or (none / 0) (#186)
    by hookfan on Fri Aug 27, 2010 at 01:05:55 PM EST
    disconnected, or cowardly, or pusillanimous (there I did it-- see Tracy!), or thoughtful, or just really, really poor at golf and needs to overpractice his swing. We don't need anymore slices to the right after all. . .

    Parent
    How in the world you came to (none / 0) (#52)
    by coast on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 02:43:15 PM EST
    that conclusion is beyond me.

    Parent
    Well (none / 0) (#55)
    by squeaky on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 02:45:21 PM EST
    What does Obama playing golf 4 times, have to do with this topic.

    Usually when politicians are cited for playing golf, it is to point out that they are lazy.

    Parent

    Yeah.... (5.00 / 4) (#61)
    by masslib on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 02:49:59 PM EST
    I remember lots of jokes about Bush clearing brush at the ranch while Rome was burning, also an example of the "lazy negro card"?

    Parent
    Yeah (none / 0) (#70)
    by squeaky on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 02:58:29 PM EST
    Well Bush was a self proclaimed lazy president. He was not black, so no need to think of him as a lazy negro.

    But considering that there is no indication that Obama is lazy, or that his playing golf 4 times has anything to do with the topic,
    save for a gratuitous swipe, lazy negro seems about right.

    But please tell me what you think Obama's playing golf 4 times, means to you, in the context of the deficit commission or in the context of Death Panels.

    Parent

    Well, oculus said he/she was (5.00 / 4) (#73)
    by masslib on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 04:18:53 PM EST
    thinking Simpson seized a moment when the President was away to air his views.  But what I don't get is where you make the leap from someone commenting on Obama's vacation and golf habits(even if they were asserting he takes too much time off) as having anything to do with a "lazy negro" stereotype.  That's a HUGE leap in logic.

    Parent
    Huge Leap? (none / 0) (#170)
    by squeaky on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 11:21:01 PM EST
    How forgetful....., as far as I remember you were here for the barbecue.

    Parent
    Yeah (none / 0) (#71)
    by squeaky on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 02:59:56 PM EST
    Well Bush was a self proclaimed lazy president. He was not black, so no need to think of him as a lazy negro.

    But considering that there is no indication that Obama is lazy, or that his playing golf 4 times has anything to do with the topic,
    save for a gratuitous swipe, lazy negro seems about right.

    But please tell me what you think Obama's playing golf 4 times, means to you, in the context of the deficit commission or in the context of Death Panels.

    Parent

    Tiger Woods envy? (none / 0) (#192)
    by hookfan on Fri Aug 27, 2010 at 03:26:48 PM EST
    Hey! If you've ever suffered a bad slice with people watching, you'd know it's darned embarrassing. So he's a little over focused on avoiding any further embarrassment post Gibbs non-brilliance, or he wants to allow others every opportunity to embarrass themselves, before he comes in as a White Knight (hopefully that's not racist) and saves social security and peeps from their vapors. . . who knows.
     Or maybe I'm just suffering from neurological priapism. . .

    Parent
    Rather convenient for Simpson to (none / 0) (#12)
    by oculus on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 01:25:25 PM EST
    to the very public point man while the Pres. is away on vacation.  Just my opinion.

    Parent
    convenient (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 01:28:41 PM EST
    to have the sneering wretched scarecrow in the spotlight?

    dont think so.


    Parent

    So you are not objecting (none / 0) (#22)
    by me only on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 01:47:15 PM EST
    to the golfing.  Are you objecting to vacationing?

    Parent
    I don't understand why that would be wrong. (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by masslib on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 02:54:12 PM EST
    I think oculus is not doing so, but what's wrong with criticizing the President for taking lots of time off?  I certainly did so with Bush.  I do admire a workaholic like Bill Clinton.  Rare, actually, in the presidency.  But I don't see why it's controversial to think a President is spending too much time vacationing, clearing brush, golfing, etc..

    Parent
    Clinton took vacations (none / 0) (#68)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 02:57:09 PM EST
    and played golf

    probably more than Obama.

    Parent

    Uh, no. (none / 0) (#72)
    by masslib on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 04:15:21 PM EST
    He was notoriuos for taking few vactions.  Indeed, in 2000 he cut his typical one week vacation down to 3 days so Hillary could get back to her Senate Race.

    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#75)
    by squeaky on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 04:24:38 PM EST
    President Clinton took 21 days of vacation during his first year in office, President Obama took 26.

    Only Carter had a lower number than Clinton, he took 17 vacation days off during his first year in office.

    Parent

    well (none / 0) (#77)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 04:31:02 PM EST
    thats a huge difference.  I would imagine he played golf when he was not on vacation.

    Parent
    Too Much Vacation? (none / 0) (#74)
    by squeaky on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 04:19:10 PM EST
    What a load of BS....  

    Please back up this absurd claim.

    Parent

    I didn't make a claim. LOL. (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by masslib on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 04:26:31 PM EST
    I said I don't see what is wrong with someone suggesting that.  It's common for people to complain about Presidents and their vacations.  It's not unusual.  And, Obama doesn't have the reputation of a Bill Clinton, who was a notorious workaholic.  My point was actually that you have nothing to back up your cliam that such a suggestion has anything to do with a "lazy nergo" stereotype.

    Parent
    BS (none / 0) (#78)
    by squeaky on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 04:32:21 PM EST
    You made the claim that Obama is taking lots of time off and that oculus is correct in criticizing him for it, even if it is off topic non-sequitur.

    Calling Obama lazy is a load of crap. Just because he is disappointing to progressives/liberals does not mean that gratuitous slams about him being lazy are called for.

    I would think that those who call themselves liberals or progressives would be sensitive to racist stereotypes and avoid them at all costs.

    Parent

    No I didn't. (none / 0) (#79)
    by masslib on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 04:41:07 PM EST
    I said Id din't see what would be wrong with saying that.  People complain about Presidents vacationing too much all the time.  It's not unusual, and it doesn't automatically insinuate a "lazy negro" sterotype.

    Parent
    Nice Try (1.00 / 2) (#81)
    by squeaky on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 04:47:28 PM EST
    I said Id din't see what would be wrong with saying that

    That is a claim. And someone who takes a lot of vacations instead of working is considered lazy in our society.

    But I am sure you also believe that racism is dead.

    Parent

    Of course I don't believe racism is dead. (none / 0) (#84)
    by masslib on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 04:55:30 PM EST
    But I also don't see racism in every complaint anyone every lodges at the President.  I actually take racism seriously.

    Parent
    And, again, I make no " claim". (none / 0) (#85)
    by masslib on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 04:57:00 PM EST
    But, nice try.

    Parent
    LOL (none / 0) (#172)
    by squeaky on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 11:44:11 PM EST
    More like a rather mean, stupid headline...  but really.....

    that you chose to bring into the discussion....  Simpson?

    lol

    Parent

    Well, I took off to attend a most beautiful (none / 0) (#173)
    by oculus on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 11:56:55 PM EST
    performance of Beethoven chamber music by the young up-and-coming performers I have heard in the coaching sessions so frequently in the past several weeks.

    As to the President's vacation--no problem.  He and his family have earned and are entitled, like any other federal government employee, to use their vacation time.  What I was pointing out is it is kind of convenient to be out of town for any reason when the person you appointed as co-chair of the commission, i.e., Simpson, utters such foolish words, which are sure to enrage a large portion of the Dem. electorate.  Kind of like a Friday night news dump.

    Parent

    OK (none / 0) (#175)
    by squeaky on Fri Aug 27, 2010 at 12:11:33 AM EST
    Unusual for you saying that Obama deserves anything, but barbs.... and the but really....  suggested that you also felt Obama was being lazy. Some of the right wing papers were clearly implying that all he does is play golf...

    And, quite the oblique comment, considering that this thread was about Death Panel...  not Simpson...  Not unusual though, as you often come out with enigmatic one liners..  at least enigmatic for me...

    In anycase always nice to hear Beethoven chamber muslc when it is played well... sounds like a wonderful afternoon/evening..

    Parent

    as a motivater (none / 0) (#125)
    by jondee on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 06:33:22 PM EST
    he should be looking forward to the time when he'll be getting more than some African villages make in a year for a 1/2 hr ghost written speech..

    Improvisations on a cigar - while the shrew is away - have been known to have a restful allure, as well.

    Parent

    Dean Baker, also writing (5.00 / 3) (#8)
    by KeysDan on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 01:07:32 PM EST
    in Firedoglake (8/26) points out that Simpson is not just offensive but ignorant.  Mr. Baker has experienced, first hand, both of these 'attributes' in an interview he conducted recently with Simpson. Baker, who is very well versed in social security finances, reinforces the fact that the shortfall is relatively minor and distant.

    Moreover, Baker notes that Simpson has repeatedly made references to "retirees driving up to their gated communities in their Lexuses." A sentiment that reflects just  how out-of-touch a co-chair of the presidential Catfood Commission is. Most pensioners have little income other than social security and those  at and nearing retirement have encountered the disappearance of their meager wealth in declining home equity and 40lk's. Dependence on near zero interest from savings, another potential source of income, has hit the finances of retirees.

    As Dean Baker also opines, "cutting benefits of the small group of genuinely affluent elderly would make almost no difference in the finances of the program."  It would, however, move social security toward a welfare program with the increasing political vulnerabilities for the entire program.

    David Dayen also has a good post (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by Anne on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 01:31:26 PM EST
    up on this at the FDL News Desk today:

    He [Simpson] keeps mentioning Stephen Goss' report to the cat food commission from May 12 of this year. I've obtained the slides from that speech, and I have to say, I don't think Simpson knows enough about Social Security to even collect it, let alone head a commission devoted to its future.

    The presentation basically explains the Social Security system and how it works. It's a primer, if you will. Slide 5 shows, in my view, that a commission focused on the budget deficit has no business involving itself in a separately funded program. It says that "Trust Funds enforce long-term budget neutrality" and if the Trust Funds get exhausted by 2037, which is the current schedule, "Spending is limited---NO annual budget deficit." In other words, Social Security cannot run a deficit and will adjust to the available funds. Regardless of whether you think that's a good idea, the fact is that the program has basically no impact on the budget deficit whatsoever, unless you contort yourself into the lie that paying back the US Treasury bonds in the Trust Fund represents a "raid" on the budget. That's what Matt Bai did in his preposterous story today, claiming that the $2.5 trillion in the Trust Fund, backed by the full faith and credit of the US government, "is sort of like saying that you're rich because your friend has promised to give you 10 million bucks just as soon as he wins the lottery." No, it's like saying you're rich because your friend owes you 10 million bucks by force of law.

    Slide 6, which Simpson specifically pointed out, is merely the recitation of what the trustee's report showed this year: all scheduled benefits can pay out until 2037. That's 27 years of solvency, which I'd gather is better than practically every program in the federal government. What's more, it makes Bai (and Simpson, who has made the same argument on occasion) look like an idiot for his stupid Trust Fund metaphor, because the 27 years of solvency assumes full repayment of the Trust Fund. That would be the point of Slide 7, "Solvent as Long as the Trust Fund Has Assets." Slide 10 also shows this. It may look "scary, scary, scary," but it's showing the completely normal data from the trustee's report. Simpson must think we never saw that before. I think he hasn't.

    As for the best solution in the future, I hardly think the answer for the potential cuts in 27 years is to make cuts today. As Goss says on Slide 11, the current program structure is sustainable with adjustments. It's far more sustainable than Medicare, Ag subsidies, or just about 100 other things in the budget. Goss continues, "Sustainable is what Americans want and are willing to pay for."

    Hardly anyone knows that the payroll tax which pays for Social Security is capped at $106,000. Even if we carved out up to, say, $300,000 and then continued the tax on up, to capture the amount of compensation - 90% - expected by the program at the outset, we would have filled the gap almost entirely. As for the rest, believing so strongly in a 27-year projection is kind of nuts. We didn't budget for any other program in 1983 based on what would happen in 2010: only Social Security.

    As Goss concludes on Slide 19: "No Need to "Bend" the Cost Curve (% of GDP) for Social Security." Medicare is clearly the bigger problem, and the changes in the Affordable Care Act only covered part of the job. If Simpson were in any way credible, he'd get to work, not only on a better overall health care system, which would lower Medicare costs concurrently, but the inefficiencies in the overall budget, like runaway defense spending, Ag subsidies, contracting and a host of other problems. Social Security, despite being a lower-order issue, seems like all this commission is going to deal with. And Simpson's comments show a bias against the program as well as a lack of understanding about it. That's why he should be fired, not for obscenity or anything else.

    Bold is mine.

    Since, with a few exceptions, we have a media that is incapable of doing the simplest of research in order to fact-check the politicians and educate the public, lying to the American public is easier than ever.

    As for what the Dems plan to run against this election, I believe they are confining themselves to the privatization issue; while privatization is certainly well worth running against, I think it better to keep a close eye on the "adjustments" and "tweaks" that keep being mentioned in Democratic circles in a very general way.  Do not be distracted by the fight against privatization, or lulled into thinking that's the entirety of what is on the table.

    In my opinion, the act of creating the commission sent Democratic credibility on this issue into the toilet.

    Parent

    Yuppers (none / 0) (#42)
    by me only on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 02:22:41 PM EST
    First:
    - Clearly scheduled benefits NOT sustainable
    with scheduled income

    Eliminate 2.00% Actuarial Deficit
    Eliminate unfunded obligation
    - 0.7% of GDP or $5.3 trillion over next 75 years
    BUT, Sustainability is about timing and trend
    - Meet or reduce obligations when shortfalls occur
    Enact soon with changes implemented later
    - Gradual changes with time for planning




    Parent
    Al Simpson was put on this (5.00 / 4) (#18)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 01:33:43 PM EST
    commission for one reason and one reason only, to deal some damage to the entitlement program known as Social Security.

    Parent
    Retirees and their employers paid the (5.00 / 4) (#90)
    by MO Blue on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 05:30:04 PM EST
    premiums for SS benefits. They deserve to get the benefits that they paid for regardless of their financial situation.

    The U.S. government required people to purchase SS old age insurance and they should not be able to default on their financial obligation.

    Also, raising the eligibility age for SS will impact the poorest among us since they are the ones who have manual labor jobs and will through necessity need to retire earlier.

    Parent

    Transparency...LOL (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by coast on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 01:13:01 PM EST


    My response to the White House (5.00 / 6) (#13)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 01:25:55 PM EST
    declaring that he will continue to serve is, "Serve who and serve what?"

    And Mo Blue and backfromohio and I seem to be correct in exactly why he was chosen by Obama to sit on the commission and why he will remain.  Our stuff will be tweaked whether we like it or not or whether it needs it or not.

    Obama needs to be primaried!  The planning should begin NOW!  And I'm sorry Teddy, you were wrong about him and it is a bummer that generations will suffer because you aren't here to stand up to him.  Someone else is going to have to step up.

    A consideration (5.00 / 0) (#41)
    by christinep on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 02:20:23 PM EST
    My family started supporting Jimmy Carter in spring, 1975. We were fortunate enough to meet and speak with him in the early days when it was "Jimmy who." In the ensuing months, my husband became a paid campaign staffer and my sister flew a few "peanut brigade" flights in our state. Forward/backward to late 1979 and early 1980: Iran hostages situation creating angst at home, gas prices rising (we had the "malaise" speech by then), inflation. A sour mood in the country...and, in the Democratic party. Being a federal employee and Hatched at the time, I became increasingly disenchanted with slow progress, etc., and really began to support emotionally the challenger, the late Senator Kennedy.
    Well, the party split. Oh, Senator Kennedy gave a magnificent bring-you-to-tears speech at the 1980 convention. But, we could not recover from the split. That one we all thought a joke, etc. etc--Ronald Reagan--took the ascendancy (with myself & friends still pouty about Kennedy's loss), we never recovered. All these years later, and Reagan's appointees and sub-appointees are pulling a lot a strings. Shudders.
    Ups & downs. Then, Carter went down; Kennedy went down. And, the result: People did not see the error of their ways or anything I thought would happen. Nope. We're still paying for it. (Shudder.)

    Parent
    It wasn't the split that killed us (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 05:39:51 PM EST
    It was just plain old Jimmy Carter.  Kennedy was the one thing that could have saved the party but he couldn't manage to swing it unfortunately.  The party was just flat doomed though due to Carter and nothing else.

    And it is Jimmy Carter who gave us the Reagan years and opened the door wide for Reaganomics, because if there is no hope out there for the people with the Democrats the voters will try the Republican.  And sadly, at this point in the Obama Presidency.....Ronald Reagan did quite a few things more liberal and progressive than Barack Obama has thusfar managed to get done with literally unheard of majorities.

    Parent

    Holy Toledo, Batman (none / 0) (#109)
    by BTAL on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 06:13:49 PM EST
    Ronald Reagan did quite a few things more liberal and progressive than Barack Obama has thusfar managed to get done with literally unheard of majorities.


    Parent
    Don't ask for a list (none / 0) (#114)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 06:18:07 PM EST
    I'm not going that far to blow your mind.  It wasn't as if he wanted to, but unlike Obama he wanted more than one term.

    Parent
    Oh, wasn't going to ask (none / 0) (#118)
    by BTAL on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 06:27:20 PM EST
    Just thought what would happen if I had made such a comment.  ;)

    Parent
    Why on earth would you (5.00 / 3) (#129)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 06:38:56 PM EST
    declare any one thing that Ronald Reagan had done a move to the left or a give away to the left or just plain a moment of sanity where a liberal solution was the working solution?  That just is not your way is it?  The only reason I can get away with it is because I will list things if need be and Obama's track record thusfar is too dismal for the weak hearted to dig into.  And he is completely up to his armpits in with the Cat Food Commission.

    This is the same $hit though as what went down with the expansion of off shore drilling.  When Bush said it the liberals burnt all the rest of the brush on his ranch to the ground, but Obama DOES IT and they act like they are in a coma or something.  If Bush had come up with a Cat Food Commission with folks sitting on it like the one Obama has put together though you couldn't have been able to hear yourself think for all the screaming night and day.  But Obama does it and still half the libs are comatose.  And those of us who are awake are racists, or fire baggers, or so in love with Hillary we can't think clearly.

    Parent

    Whoa, I wasn't taking a pro-Reagan (none / 0) (#140)
    by BTAL on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 07:05:19 PM EST
    position with my comment(s), nor an anti-Obama.  So, the first paragraph is a bit mute (commission issue aside).

    However, to address Reagan, he and Tip O'Neal understood how to work together, whether one agrees or disagrees with the ultimate outcome.  

    Parent

    They were different than the $hit we have now (none / 0) (#143)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 07:12:19 PM EST
    That is for sure.

    Parent
    And who signed the Americans with (5.00 / 1) (#144)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 07:16:13 PM EST
    Disabilities Act into law....something that affects my life greatly every single day?  The first Bush did that.  Barack Obama doesn't even have anything of that caliber to point to and if I keep having the problems with my son's school that I've been having lately it will be that President that has empowered me to care for my child.

    Parent
    Obama's Cat Food Commission would (5.00 / 1) (#145)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 07:17:57 PM EST
    like the military to have to pay for its own health insurance now which means my son goes into a high risk pool.  That is just too special for words.

    Parent
    Obama Agrees With You (none / 0) (#147)
    by squeaky on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 07:23:31 PM EST
    President Obama ended his day by addressing a ceremony honoring the 20th anniversary of the Americans With Disabilities Act, calling it "one of the most comprehensive civil rights bills in the history of this country."

    And signed an EO to that effect.

    Parent

    He has compared himself to everyone (5.00 / 2) (#151)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 07:41:50 PM EST
    who has done anything meaningful.  He has given speeches for no reason other than he is "The One" where JFK gave momentous speeches for deeply meaningful reasons.  He has compared himself to Lincoln, he has tried to be anyone who accomplished anything of monumental meaning and change.  But he has not done anything at all of his own to compare to any of them, he just keeps trying to steal what is left of their spotlights.

    Parent
    Nah, it was the split (none / 0) (#155)
    by christinep on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 08:06:34 PM EST
    People can argue--as they say--til the cows come home. But, when a party fights itself, it loses. In Colorado, today, we might be the beneficiary of such a Republican split in the gubernatorial race (where Tancredo got in on a third party ticket.) Of course, the Repugs are going back & forth about whether this person would have been stronger, etc. It doesn't matter; that party is throwing away lots of things (including key redistricting decisions) due to their split. (As I recall, we had the same party discontent in 1968--a very close election--and, as everyone realizes now, that split gave us the one & only Richard Nixon.) So, I beg to differ: Party splits are losers.

    Parent
    I would have no problem with a recommendation (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by steviez314 on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 01:40:19 PM EST
    to collect SS taxes on amounts over $300K.

    No more Mosque politics (5.00 / 2) (#47)
    by MKS on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 02:31:36 PM EST
    Legally, there is no question about the Mosque.

    Neither Congress nor the President can do anything about it....

    In the meantime, apparently in the shadows, the Catfood Commission proceeds.....

    If we had the same Drudge/Fox mahcine on the left, we would have leftist bloggers and t.v. personalities railing about the Catfood Commission.

    No more being distracted by the Mosque....

    frame trap (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 02:43:54 PM EST
    its not a mosque

    ;-)

    Parent

    Dem Party death (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by The Addams Family on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 04:55:15 PM EST
    This is from 2005:

    An old friend of mine refers to the Democratic Party as the "activists' graveyard," which is not only funny but profoundly true. It's only half the story, though. The Democratic Party is not only a necropolis where activists decay into bureaucrats; it's also a toxic growth poisoning the soil where activism grows -- the crabgrass or milfoil that crowds out all the other species and devours all the nutrients. It is not merely an alternative to activism; it is the enemy of activism, and thus the enemy of any politics worthy of the name -- by which I mean politics that goes beyond an empty, meaningless rivalry between two white-collar street gangs for the spoils of office.

    Obama and his Cat Food Commission are just doing their job, and the job of the dead and death-dealing Democratic Party.


    Am I the only one (5.00 / 5) (#97)
    by BackFromOhio on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 05:53:14 PM EST
    who is ripping mad about the secrecy of the meetings and the seeming failure of "progressive" or "Liberal" Dems or the media to call this out.

    Parent
    Secrecy? (2.00 / 1) (#130)
    by squeaky on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 06:43:01 PM EST
    Have you bothered to look at the youtube archives of the meetings online?

    Apparently not....

    All four meetings, approx 2.5 hours each, are available for viewing...

    Parent

    while the real work gets done (5.00 / 1) (#133)
    by The Addams Family on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 06:50:22 PM EST
    on the golf course maybe?

    Parent
    Oh, you mean @ the 10 hours of ... (5.00 / 4) (#138)
    by Yman on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 07:02:27 PM EST
    ... the monthly public meetings?

    wow?

    How many hours of the weekly working meetings are "available for viewing"?

    Here's a hint ...

    .... it's 10 less than that.

    Parent

    Thank you (none / 0) (#159)
    by BackFromOhio on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 08:55:48 PM EST
    apparently (none / 0) (#127)
    by The Addams Family on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 06:38:18 PM EST
    this is now a feature - not a bug

    the secrecy of the meetings and the seeming failure of "progressive" or "Liberal" Dems or the media to call this out


    Parent
    Pretty Hilarious IMO (2.00 / 1) (#9)
    by squeaky on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 01:09:54 PM EST
    Messing with Social Security is toxic for GOP and Dems. But, death panel rhetoric, is great for rallying the troops.

    Catfood Commission? (2.00 / 1) (#28)
    by vicndabx on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 01:58:35 PM EST
    c'mon.  

    I know Obama hasn't been as righteous as many wanted, but one can't seriously believe he's going to cut SS.

    then why (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 02:02:55 PM EST
    is count dracula on it?

    understand I hope you are correct.


    Parent

    strange isn't it? (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by hookfan on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 02:06:49 PM EST
    Democratic Party control of both Chambers AND the Presidency-- Yet we still must be concerned about social security. The death panel may be better ascribed to the death of any progressivity in the Democratic (so called) Party.

    Parent
    I'm pretty sure he is going to try (5.00 / 3) (#35)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 02:10:04 PM EST
    Now's the time to stop it (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by MKS on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 02:15:58 PM EST
    Wihtout much Dem leadership in 2005, the attempt was thwarted.....

    Parent
    Maybe some are living in (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by christinep on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 02:28:24 PM EST
    Plato's Caves. The shadowy images can be frightening.
    It is important to keep a watchful eye on anything a commission recommends. (Historically, commissions recommend all sorts of things; and, they are often appointed to show openness to all ideas, thereby to diffuse criticism.) Sometimes commissions backfire. Just as important is the need to rein in any chicken-little tendency in a time of increasing fears.

    Parent
    I would really like it if you would stop (5.00 / 6) (#89)
    by Anne on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 05:24:48 PM EST
    treating us as if we are all children worried that there might be monsters under the bed...

    I think you can rule out "openness" as a feature of this particular commission, given that they are meeting in secret and do not have to provide anyone with transcripts or recordings of those meetings.

    You can also rule out the "openness" of diverse views, since the commission is stacked with on-the-record and long-time opponents of entitlement programs.

    You can rule out any check on the committee's recommendations, as they are not subject to congressional hearings, nor are they subject to amendment, debate or filibister: they get a straight up-or-down vote, period.

    The only hope is that there won't be enough votes to pass these recommendations, but given the near-hysteria over debts and deficits - both of which are wholly irrelevant to Social Security - and the post-election timing of the delivery of recommendations - AND - the shocking ignorance among members of Congress of how Social Security works, I'm not sure that hope floats.

    I truly do not think it's possible to give this commission - or the president who established it - the benefit of the doubt, given how it was structured and who was appointed to it; I fail to see the point in trying to soothe fears with the hope that maybe it won't be as bad as it seems.

    With so much on the line for so many people, I think it would be extraordinarily foolish not to face the reality of how bad it could be, and bring as much pressure to bear as possible to deep-six the commission altogether.

    Parent

    14 Votes out of 18 Needed (2.00 / 1) (#100)
    by squeaky on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 05:56:35 PM EST
    And 5 are Democrats that believe Social Security should remain untouched.

    But hyperventilation does oxygenate the brain, so it is not all for naught.

    Parent

    Care to name them? (5.00 / 1) (#113)
    by Anne on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 06:17:58 PM EST
    Or provide some evidence that this list, from FDL, has changed?

    Parent
    There goes Anne (5.00 / 1) (#115)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 06:20:36 PM EST
    pulling the facts of real life out of her hyperventilating backside.

    Parent
    OK (none / 0) (#121)
    by squeaky on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 06:30:43 PM EST
    I already provided it but here it is again.

    Xavier Becerra 100% ARA rating

    Kent Conrad 70% ARA rating

    Richard Durbin 90% ARA rating

    Jan Schakowsky 100% ARA rating

    John Spratt 100% ARA rating

    Parent

    Yeah and Obama had a 100% (5.00 / 5) (#126)
    by Anne on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 06:34:38 PM EST
    rating with NARAL and/or NOW, and we know how reliable that was, don't we?

    Try again, and this time give us something other than ratings.

    Parent

    Why Should I Try Again (none / 0) (#128)
    by squeaky on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 06:38:46 PM EST
    These are ratings by a retirement group. I have no worries that Social Security is in any danger.

    And Obama has appointed more women to the this administration than any POTUS.

    But you are sure he is a sexist pig. Facts, opinions never seem to allay the wound you suffered.

    Parent

    Source? I commonly see (none / 0) (#149)
    by Cream City on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 07:34:45 PM EST
    the statement that Obama has appointed more women and people of color, but I have not been able to find a comparison just of women appointees -- total, current, etc. (as several have left).

    Parent
    Yeah (none / 0) (#153)
    by squeaky on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 07:58:11 PM EST
    The main factiod is that 7 out of 10 of Obama court appointees are "non traditional". IOW has appointed more women and minorities to the courts in his first year, but congress has blocked them...

    So far he is setting records for the number of women and minorities nominated to lifetime appointments. Nearly half of the 73 candidates he has tapped for the bench have been women. In all, 25% have been African Americans, 10% Hispanics and 11% Asian Americans.

    USA today

    WaPo has a database of senior political appointments.

    Out of 447 nominated 145 were women 302 men.

    264 white
    55 black
    40 hispanic
    20 asian
    68 unknown

    Not sure how those compare to other POTUS in their first 1.5 years.

    Parent

    Ah, then no different (5.00 / 2) (#158)
    by Cream City on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 08:46:50 PM EST
    from what I have found -- and about the same as by Clinton, after all.  Thanks.

    Parent
    Ah so --then, Clinton & Obama both did good (none / 0) (#166)
    by christinep on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 10:25:12 PM EST
    Yep. Well, they did better (5.00 / 1) (#171)
    by Cream City on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 11:36:36 PM EST
    than presidents before them or the president in between, anyway.

    Whether that suffices as "good" is subjective.

    It could be said, for example, that "good" would be when appointments are proportionately representative of a group in the larger population.

    But even the best of presidents by this measure still were and are well short of appointing women to 51 percent of the positions. :-)

    Parent

    "Subjective" indeed . . . (none / 0) (#193)
    by markpkessinger on Fri Aug 27, 2010 at 07:37:27 PM EST
    . . . especially where the Clinton Administration was concerned.  Let's see, they gave us NAFTA, the dismantling of the Glass-Steagall Act, Don't Ask Don't Tell, and the Defense of Marriage Act.  Quite a list, eh?

    Parent
    Subjective. Indeed. (none / 0) (#194)
    by Yman on Sat Aug 28, 2010 at 08:50:20 AM EST
    Particularly considering that NAFTA didn't cause a loss of jobs, Glass-Steagall didn't cause the financial crisis and DADT was a compromise forced when a complete repeal of the ban was strongly opposed by the DOD, Congress and the public in general.

    Not much of a list after all.

    Parent

    Then why would you make a claim otherwise? (none / 0) (#156)
    by BTAL on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 08:29:33 PM EST
    Not sure how those compare to other POTUS in their first 1.5 years.

    If you are not sure???

    Makes one recall the old adage of "etter to keep your mouth closed and be thought a ...."

    Parent

    Then why would you make a claim otherwise? (none / 0) (#157)
    by BTAL on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 08:29:58 PM EST
    Not sure how those compare to other POTUS in their first 1.5 years.

    If you are not sure???

    Makes one recall the old adage of "Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a ...."

    Parent

    You Missed This: (none / 0) (#164)
    by squeaky on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 09:51:02 PM EST
    So far he is setting records for the number of women and minorities nominated to lifetime appointments. Nearly half of the 73 candidates he has tapped for the bench have been women. In all, 25% have been African Americans, 10% Hispanics and 11% Asian Americans.


    Parent
    "Untouched" Really? (5.00 / 2) (#134)
    by Yman on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 06:50:49 PM EST
    Spratt -
    House Budget Committee Chairman John Spratt of South Carolina and his counterpart in the Senate, Kent Conrad of North Dakota are promoting a "grand bargain" in which a bipartisan commission enacts spending caps on social insurance as the offset for current deficits." (2/23/2009) ... favors supplementing Social Security with a private savings plan that would either be mandatory "or else so attractive that everyone would sign up for it." He also advocates investing about 20 percent of the Social Security trust fund in the stock market."

    Durbin -

    admonished "bleeding heart liberals" to be open to program reductions to restore fiscal balance.

    Conrad - see Spratt, above re: the "grand bargain", and his openness to exploring individual accounts.

    Looks like only 2 (out of 18), appear to believe that Social Security should remain "untouched" - as far as we know.  Of course, most of us are at a disadvantage, ...

    ... since we can't read minds.

    Parent

    That is the voting criteria (none / 0) (#102)
    by BTAL on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 06:00:40 PM EST
    to include an item in their report.  

    The commission has no legislative authority.

    Parent

    Correction Jan 1 2011 (none / 0) (#103)
    by squeaky on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 06:05:45 PM EST
    The Commission will meet as a whole once a month while Congress is in session. The Commission will vote on a final report containing a set of recommendations to achieve its mission no later than December 1, 2010. The final report will require the approval of at least 14 of the Commission's 18 members.

    Sec. 2. Membership. The Commission shall be composed of 18 members who shall be selected as follows:

    (a) six members appointed by the President, not more than four of whom shall be from the same political party;
    (b) three members selected by the Majority Leader of the Senate, all of whom shall be current Members of the Senate;
    (c) three members selected by the Speaker of the House of Representatives, all of whom shall be current Members of the House of Representatives;
    (d) three members selected by the Minority Leader of the Senate, all of whom shall be current Members of the Senate; and
    (e) three members selected by the Minority Leader of the House of Representatives, all of whom shall be current Members of the House of Representatives.

    Sec. 3. Co-Chairs. From among his appointees, the President shall designate two members, who shall not be of the same political party, to serve as Co-Chairs of the Commission.

    (c) This order is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity by any party against the United States, its departments, agencies, or entities, its officers, employees, or agents, or any other person.

    Parent

    Damn Autofill (none / 0) (#104)
    by squeaky on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 06:07:29 PM EST
    Header should read Correct...

    Parent
    You are misinformed on the numbers. (none / 0) (#161)
    by Romberry on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 09:38:27 PM EST
    I'll leave it to you to go back and do your homework. The info is available all over the place.

    Parent
    Really? (none / 0) (#163)
    by squeaky on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 09:48:12 PM EST
    The Commission will meet as a whole once a month while Congress is in session. The Commission will vote on a final report containing a set of recommendations to achieve its mission no later than December 1, 2010. The final report will require the approval of at least 14 of the Commission's 18 members.

    Fiscal Commission.gov

    Parent

    Yes, really (none / 0) (#195)
    by Romberry on Sat Sep 04, 2010 at 11:56:17 AM EST
    The commission requires 14 of 18 to pass a recommendation. Conveniently enough, 14 of 18 members are on record as wanting to cut Social Security.

    Parent
    Fact Check (2.00 / 1) (#112)
    by squeaky on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 06:17:42 PM EST
    I think you can rule out "openness" as a feature of this particular commission, given that they are meeting in secret and do not have to provide anyone with transcripts or recordings of those meetings.

    Meetings online here

    Parent

    Guess you missed (5.00 / 4) (#117)
    by Anne on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 06:25:10 PM EST
    this little tidbit:

    The working groups are operating under 41 CFR 102-3.35(a) which permits subcommittees that do not report directly to a federal agency or official to meet without regard to FACA's open meeting requirements. The working groups will report their findings directly to the Commission at regularly scheduled open meetings of the Commission.

    From Jamie Galbraith's testimony to the commission on June 30:

    First, most of your meetings are secret, apart from two open sessions before this one, which were plainly for show. There is no justification for secret meetings on deficit reduction. No secrets of any kind are involved. Nothing you say will affect financial markets. Congress long ago -- in 1975 -- reformed its procedures to hold far more sensitive and complicated meetings, notably legislative markups, in the broad light of day.

    Any curiousity what the working groups are meeting about that they don't have to make public?

    Parent

    Not Interested (none / 0) (#135)
    by squeaky on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 06:51:23 PM EST
    Any curiousity what the working groups are meeting about that they don't have to make public?

    But then again, I am not worried about Social Security getting eated.

    The commission's final report is advisory. Nothing can be done about Social Security without Congress.

    I do not believe that Congress is going to risk tampering with Social Security, no chance, imo.

    Parent

    The members have secret meetings (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 06:28:10 PM EST
    all the time squeak.

    Parent
    I Am Sure That They Do (2.00 / 1) (#124)
    by squeaky on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 06:32:19 PM EST
    But to claim that they are super secret and entirely inaccessible is patently false. The meetings and agendas are online. They meet once a month while congress is in session.

    Parent
    Until that comment, squeaky, I (5.00 / 6) (#131)
    by caseyOR on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 06:43:58 PM EST
    had never thought of you as gullible. I think your Hillary obsession, which appears to require that you close a blind eye to what Obama actually does, is affecting your critical thinking skills.

    The real work is done in those secret subcommittee meetings. The open meetings are just for show. And, really, anyone who has ever served on any board or committee knows how worthless the official agenda can be.

    Parent

    I Don't Disagree (none / 0) (#150)
    by squeaky on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 07:37:33 PM EST
    And I am sure that they are ripping each others throat out, or plotting to destroy Social Security.

    From my point of view, it is toothless, led by 10X loser Simpson.

    Congress does not even have to look at the crap this committee produces. And, I really do not believe that any of the congress critters are going to vote for tampering with Social Security.

    Parent

    Misplaced optimism, I fear. (none / 0) (#152)
    by caseyOR on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 07:56:24 PM EST
    Even my own, super-duper liberal congressman, Earl Blumenauer (D-OR) is proposing "fixes" to SS. He figures prominently in Matt Bai's disgraceful NY Times story.

    And, since Earl is very close with both Obama and Pelosi, I doubt he is some kind of outlier. Oh,and, like our president, Earl prides himself on his "pragmatism".

    Just the fact that these "deficit reduction" meetings are focused on "entitlements" is cause for major alarm. Why aren't we hearing about major cuts to ag subsidies and oil/gas/coal subsidies and the Pentagon? Why isn't there outrage about the insane cost of outside contracting?

    SS, which has its own revenue stream and is fully funded for at least 27 years, is not even close to being a cause of the deficit.

    Obama intends to "fix" SS, which to me sounds a whole lot like "destroy the village to save it", to reference another sad and disgraceful action by a Democratic president.

    Parent

    Could Be (none / 0) (#154)
    by squeaky on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 08:02:56 PM EST
    But one thing to consider is that the noise about Social Security may be overpowering discussions about VAT and other deficit reduction proposals.

    We'll see, come December. I do not think that they will agree on  a final proposal, which does not exclude Obama from picking through their findings and making recommendations to congress.

    Parent

    The agendas are online? Heh (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 06:44:41 PM EST
    Look, your apologist making silly excuses bunch totally fecked me on the healthcare crap.  I will not go there again.  The agendas of those on the Cat Food Commission have been known for decades.  The whole Commission is stacked to the gills with FDR New Deal Social Security haters.  Some of them have done little else for twenty years other than try to find ways to kill Social Security.

    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#136)
    by squeaky on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 06:55:01 PM EST
    And it is a loser. No one is going to cast a vote in congress to weaken, or even tamper with Social Security. That would be extremely unpopular, imo.

    But bedwetting is fun sometimes...  like a good scary movie.

    Parent

    After all the other sellouts (5.00 / 2) (#139)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 07:03:23 PM EST
    I do not believe in your shiny pony faith for one minute.  Social Security is an insane line in the sand for me too.  When I saw what made up the Cat Food Commission it was obvious where this was meant to go.  If he didn't want me up his arse he should have never gone here with these people!  Call me a bedwetter all day long but I got totally fecked on healthcare reform and finance reform and all the people he fecked me over for are the same ones who want Social Security tweaked.....and all that that could entail while we negotiate pushing that legislation through.  OH HELL NO I won't be going there!

    Just because you have a difficult time dealing with reality doesn't mean that I do.

    Parent

    Hey! Congrats! (5.00 / 3) (#141)
    by Yman on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 07:06:30 PM EST
    But bedwetting is fun sometimes...  like a good scary movie.

    You got a piece from your favorite roll!

    Parent

    Knock Yourself Out (none / 0) (#142)
    by squeaky on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 07:11:18 PM EST
    I think that this Unanimous Senate Vote on January 26, 2010, has more heft than any advisory catfood commission's suggestions could ever be.

    Parent
    I have no faith in this President (5.00 / 1) (#146)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 07:20:02 PM EST
    and who he has sold me out to behind my back.

    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#148)
    by squeaky on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 07:25:01 PM EST
    You appear to be suffering a great deal.

    Parent
    My understanding is the the House will (none / 0) (#95)
    by BTAL on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 05:50:14 PM EST
    only vote on any legislation that comes out of the Senate based on the commission's report - aka the Pelosi "rule" vote stunt.

    Did I miss something that established a predetermined action by the Senate?  If, I'd like to find out about it.

    Parent

    Not sorry, Anne (none / 0) (#137)
    by christinep on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 06:58:32 PM EST
    I believe that some of the reactions about the Commission's recommendations verge on mini-hysteria. That is my take. Obviously, you have your opinion as well. And, I will not comment on the tone of your writing...because I appreciate the different tones that people with different views use.  In any event, I also find Alan Simpson's comments worrisome, tho not new coming from our Wyoming neighbor. It will be interesting if he can be used as the focal point for us Democrats to respond to in the immediate political sense as well as in the longer term policy sense. (After all, to the extent that we Democrats recognize once again the stakes with the likes of Simpson and cohorts the more likely that the number of motivated voters will rise in the fall.  Hmmm?)

    Parent
    We're all (none / 0) (#49)
    by hookfan on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 02:39:38 PM EST
    living in Plato's caves. And there are no Philosopher Kings either. Well except for BTD. But he's only self appointed anyway. . .

    Parent
    Get the facts on Jane Hamsher's piece. (5.00 / 2) (#116)
    by rennies on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 06:24:07 PM EST
    (Cited by BTD at the begining of his comments.) Read this and you will know that Obama is in on this boots and all. And why would that surprise anyone?

    Parent
    I read the piece (none / 0) (#182)
    by vicndabx on Fri Aug 27, 2010 at 08:10:08 AM EST
    and as many here have already noted, see things that are concerning, but ultimately, side-show entertainment.  I'd rather wait for the actual recommendations.

    Parent
    You have got to be kidding. (none / 0) (#67)
    by observed on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 02:56:18 PM EST
    It's as if Hitler were on (none / 0) (#69)
    by observed on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 02:57:30 PM EST
    Obama's Commission on the Jewish problem.

    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#101)
    by squeaky on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 05:57:32 PM EST
    And enough Jews as well to make him look the fool.

    Parent
    That will not happen. (none / 0) (#3)
    by Buckeye on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 12:58:13 PM EST
    The Dems will not destroy social security...especially after running ads stating that is what the Repubs want to do.

    We will probably not like what they do, but they will not destroy it.  There are limits even to stupidity.

    little recent history (5.00 / 4) (#5)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 01:00:55 PM EST
    supports this:

    There are limits even to stupidity.


    Parent
    I think you're missing the point of those ads (5.00 / 2) (#160)
    by Romberry on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 09:36:01 PM EST
    The ads are for electoral advantage and nothing more. Atrios at Eschaton had it right earlier today:

    Judging by all the emails I get from various campaigns and party organizations, the Dem plan for the campaign is to run against social security privatization and then come December vote to cut benefits and raise the retirement age.

    I think that's spot on. The Dem plan amounts to setting up the extreme Republican position (which stands no chance of becoming law for many reasons) as what we have to fight against, and then to come in with the "centrist" solution of cuts in benefits and increases in retirement age. That's the game that's being played.

    Parent

    Agree you and Atrios 100% (none / 0) (#178)
    by MO Blue on Fri Aug 27, 2010 at 01:53:48 AM EST
    Death by 100 cuts. Cut benefits, raise the retirement age and means testing is the first step. The more they can reduce its benefits and make it into some kind of welfare program (reducing popularity), the easier it will be privatize it in the not to distant future. The commission which can easily be stacked by any president to reach whatever outcome that is desired.

    Parent
    That will not happen (none / 0) (#4)
    by Buckeye on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 12:58:24 PM EST
    The Dems will not destroy social security...especially after running ads stating that is what the Repubs want to do.

    We will probably not like what they do, but they will not destroy it.  There are limits even to stupidity.

    Could Catfood Commission recommendations (none / 0) (#23)
    by MKS on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 01:47:24 PM EST
    be filibustered?

    No reconciliation possible this go round because no budget resolution for it, I think.

    Reverse the Republican playbook....

    Bloggers helped hold the line in 2005 with Josh Marshall leading the way....

    I used to be in a band called Dem Party (none / 0) (#25)
    by tigercourse on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 01:53:23 PM EST
    Death Panel.

    Never got a gig.

    Klein is out today with his three ways to fix (none / 0) (#30)
    by BTAL on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 02:03:13 PM EST
    SS.

    snip

    The left wing of the Democratic Party is wildly--I'd say, excessively--opposed to limiting it in any way. I disagree: a few minor fixes, similar to those made in 1983, would be a fair, sane and relatively painless way to solve the problem (and those who say that there is no problem because a discrete social security trust fund "exists" are not only blowing smoke, but also resurrecting one of the stupidest arguments in recent memory--Al Gore's 2000 notion that he would put social security funds in a "lock box.")

    Link

    Klein is stupid of course (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 02:09:37 PM EST
    Just in case anyone wondered what I thought of him.

    Parent
    Case in point (5.00 / 2) (#36)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 02:11:48 PM EST
    "Matt Bai has a good column in the Times today about the looming debate over controlling the costs of old age entitlements, especially social security."

    Klein remains an idiot as always.

    Parent

    Second case in point (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 02:13:46 PM EST
    "First, as we saw when Bill Clinton chose to address the federal deficit in 1993, markets respond to fiscal responsibility. In that case, interest rates declined and the economy boomed (despite higher taxes, I must repeat again and again); now, a move toward federal fiscal responsibility might encourage the U.S. business community to start investing the $1.8 trillion in cash it is hoarding and thereby create some jobs.
    "

    The lack of demand is what is causing a lag in business investment, not a "lack of fiscal responsibility."

    Klein is, yes, an idiot who knows nothing about what he is writing about.

    Parent

    What's most idiotic is the (none / 0) (#96)
    by BackFromOhio on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 05:50:33 PM EST
    compulsion to write about topics on which one is ignorant.  No one seems to believe in education any more -- indeed, continuing ed.

    Parent
    Joke Line (none / 0) (#38)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 02:14:03 PM EST
    for a reason

    Parent
    Agree, his is an idiot (none / 0) (#40)
    by BTAL on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 02:19:47 PM EST
    But the purpose of bringing it up is it appears that there is a faction of the party may know and/or support whatever the WH is up to.

    Parent
    I dont think (none / 0) (#43)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 02:23:08 PM EST
    that is a surprise is it?

    Parent
    Interesting article (none / 0) (#57)
    by CST on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 02:46:08 PM EST
    in the nytimes about public opinion, social security, and age.

    The responses might surprise you - and Obama - you might want to pay attention to these numbers.

    Key exerpts:

    "90 percent of those ages 18 to 29 deemed Social Security important"

    "almost half of them agreed with the statement that it is "one of the very most important government programs,""

    "Among all non-retired adults in the survey, about half say they're willing to pay higher payroll taxes now to ensure that Social Security remains available for today's older people and for themselves when they retire, a proportion that varies little by age."

    emphasis mine.

    however -

    "only a third of the younger respondents, and only a third of all respondents, expressed confidence in the program's future"

    well, if you asked me (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by nycstray on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 02:52:59 PM EST
    about confidence in the program's future today, I would say I don't have confidence in it. There's that lil' thing called "the Catfood Commission"  ;)

    18-29yos are prob seeing their parents retirement futures disappear before their eyes. wake-up call . . .  90% is a pretty impressive number though.

    Parent

    This is one of those campaign issues (none / 0) (#66)
    by masslib on Thu Aug 26, 2010 at 02:55:43 PM EST
    where I did think there was a dimes worth of difference between the candidates.