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    This isn't a First Amendment case... (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 11:09:49 AM EST
    Geez Louise. The Government didn't do anything to her, to stop her freedom of expression! People were outraged. This is a sequel to the Imus affair!

    Agreed (5.00 / 2) (#72)
    by CoralGables on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 01:03:52 PM EST
    It's her company. She wasn't fired. She is closing up shop. She is free to say these things all she wants and others are free to stop advertising with her or to boycott those that do advertise with her.

    It's not a first amendment case but rather a case of the first amendment working. We are free to say what we want and also free to suffer the consequences from our choice of words.

    Parent

    But isn't Imsu back on the air? (none / 0) (#5)
    by oculus on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 11:14:28 AM EST
    Yep, he's on satellite radio, I think. (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 11:17:11 AM EST
    It's just NOT a 1st Amendment case.

    Parent
    WABC 770... (none / 0) (#35)
    by kdog on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 12:03:04 PM EST
    on my morning drive...I'll give a listen sometimes cuz Warner Wolf is his sports guy, and my 20 min. commute is timed perfectly with the sports.

    Warner once zinged a Golden Glove boxer from my old neighborhood real good when he was on CBS Channel 2 back in the day...something like "get that bum outta there!". Classic.  

    And he was one of the last to cover everyday horse racing on the evening news.

    "Lets go to the videotape!"

    Parent

    wow (none / 0) (#46)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 12:23:31 PM EST
    Warner Wolf is still alive?  he was goin to the video tape when I lived in Manhattan.


    Parent
    Yep... (none / 0) (#60)
    by kdog on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 12:50:00 PM EST
    the guy who once interviewed Rocky Marciano in the back of a cab is still doing sports...lucky for us.

    He's got his own show on ESPN Radio on Saturdays too.

    Parent

    much smaller (none / 0) (#7)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 11:16:33 AM EST
    venue no?

    Parent
    He's on Fox (none / 0) (#12)
    by jbindc on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 11:23:01 AM EST
    Much BIGGER venue

    Parent
    when is Imus on (none / 0) (#13)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 11:24:18 AM EST
    FOX.  FOX tv?

    Parent
    Sorry (none / 0) (#17)
    by jbindc on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 11:25:59 AM EST
    Fox Business from 6-9 am

    Parent
    and you think (none / 0) (#20)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 11:26:47 AM EST
    fox business is a much bigger audience?

    Parent
    That's why I said "sorry" (none / 0) (#22)
    by jbindc on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 11:33:53 AM EST
    When I was flipping channels this morning at 4am, I wasn't paying attention to whether the replay was on Fox or Fox N
    Business.

    But Glenn Beck was his guest....

    Parent

    tomorrow (none / 0) (#23)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 11:34:53 AM EST
    Dr Loser.  they can have a little support group action.

    Parent
    Yeah (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by jbindc on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 11:38:36 AM EST
    It was not the first thing I wanted to see first thing in the morning - Beck and Imus!

    Parent
    although (none / 0) (#25)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 11:36:30 AM EST
    that is really unfair to Imus.  what he did was in no way as heinous as what she did IMO.


    Parent
    Disagree--politely. (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by oculus on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 11:56:36 AM EST
    well (none / 0) (#34)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 12:00:07 PM EST
    he was joking.  his was a comedy show.  I dont think any serious person thinks Imus with his background and good works is a racist.

    its hard to read that transcript and come to the same decision about her

    Parent

    Interesting. At the time I didn't hear (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by oculus on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 12:22:08 PM EST
    anyone defending Mr. Imus on the basis he wss just joking.  

    Parent
    there certainly (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 12:27:02 PM EST
    were people defending him on that basis.  I was not one of them and I am not defending what he did.  I am just saying hers is the worser of the offenses.
    IMO.
    he personally berated a individual who seemed to really be asking for advise.  god only knows for what reason.


    Parent
    First, why the need to rate offenses? (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by Cream City on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 02:32:00 PM EST
    Both were despicable.

    But I would not begin to attempt to rank one as worse than the other -- but then again, I seem to have been one of the few I have found who closely watched the team's news conferences and watched the faces of those marvelous young women, some of our best and brightest and strong and hard-working ones, who essentially had been called whores.

    And I also never will forget the faces of their mothers and fathers who were there.

    Ask any of them whether it was a gendered slur or a racial slur.  It was both, but who cares? when it's your daughter so denigrated in front of the country.

    Parent

    you have a point of course (none / 0) (#104)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 02:41:08 PM EST
    I suppose the only thing I was trying to say is that the intent seemed different.
    Dr Loser honestly seem to just be trying to get on the train.  you know, the train illustrated by the comment down thread about the Pew poll.  it just seems craven and totally intentional.  at least to me.
    I dont think Imus was so blatantly intentional.  he said a very bad and hurtful thing about people who had done nothing to deserve it.  but really, that is how he has made his living for years.  and he paid for it.


    Parent
    sorry (none / 0) (#49)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 12:27:55 PM EST
    SHE berated an individual asking for advise

    Parent
    not that would be (none / 0) (#16)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 11:25:33 AM EST
    in any way a real surprise.  Dr. Loser probably already has an offer.  no way she is riding off into the sunset.

    Parent
    I didnt know that much about the (none / 0) (#11)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 11:21:29 AM EST
    whole thing but nojo has a great post up at stinque that does a good wrap of it.
    I recommend reading it.  it was rather stunning.

    a comment:


    I just read the whole transcript. The least of her transgressions was shouting a racial epithet. Basically, she just called Jade a stupid, self-pitying person exhibiting these characteristics as racially programmed behavioral deficits - and then found a lame-ass excuse to start shouting racial epithets. The caller was looking for a strategy to deal with some cruel stereotyping from her husband and his friends that had nothing to do with racial epithets and the radio lady decided she just needed to be put in her place for interpreting this vile abuse accurately as emotional violence. This is where she crossed the line into white supremacist rhetoric: "And what I just heard from Jade is a lot of what I hear from black-think"


    Parent
    pencil led art (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 12:22:02 PM EST
    I usually dont get excited about this stuff but this is pretty cool.


    That's impressive. (none / 0) (#50)
    by nycstray on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 12:28:24 PM EST
    Dr Laura (none / 0) (#1)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 11:03:19 AM EST
    no thanks to the devine ms P (none / 0) (#2)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 11:04:12 AM EST
       SarahPalinUSA Dr.Laura:don't retreat...reload! (Steps aside bc her 1st Amend.rights ceased 2exist thx 2activists trying 2silence"isn't American,not fair")

        SarahPalinUSA Dr.Laura=even more powerful & effective w/out the shackles, so watch out Constitutional obstructionists. And b thankful 4 her voice,America!



    Parent
    quote from another blog (stinque) (none / 0) (#3)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 11:05:37 AM EST
    But here's the executive summary: Sarah Palin is applauding the insulting use of "ni**er" by a White person to a Black person in polite conversation.

    Not just applauding -- encouraging.

    Parent

    If Palin mattered (none / 0) (#6)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 11:14:38 AM EST
    I'd be having fun with this.

    I want her to be the nominee. I fear Romney.

    Parent

    judging from the wave of (none / 0) (#10)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 11:18:24 AM EST
    Angles and Pauls I think it could happen.
    could depend on how these people do in the fall.  if they all lose (likely?) it might hurt her chances it seems to me.


    Parent
    Bah (none / 0) (#14)
    by jbindc on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 11:24:24 AM EST
    She's sinking like the Titanic nationally.  It'll be "Sarah, who?" by 2012.

    Parent
    bull (none / 0) (#18)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 11:26:16 AM EST
    her wingnut audience grow by the day.

    Parent
    Too bad (none / 0) (#24)
    by jbindc on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 11:34:53 AM EST
    Her wingnut base aren't the only people who get to vote.

    Parent
    in primaries? (none / 0) (#26)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 11:37:01 AM EST
    surely you jest?


    Parent
    The diehards (none / 0) (#29)
    by jbindc on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 11:43:52 AM EST
    Will vote for her.  The Republicans that actually want to win the WH will not.

    I predict here and now that she is gone after Super Tuesday (if not before).

    Don't forget - ALL the focus will be on the Republicans, so every Tweet, every quote, every FB entry will be magnified.  Not to mention that the media hates her, so she will get no fawning adoration or halos airbrushed in photos.

    Parent

    not sure where you get that (none / 0) (#38)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 12:07:10 PM EST
    she is a FAUX "contributor"
    THEY will sell her big time.  thats all she needs.
    and I doubt is Romney is exactly extolled in the media either.  particularly on FOX.

    Parent
    Huckabee (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by jbindc on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 12:14:07 PM EST
    Has his own show on Fox - so what? They would promote the heck out of him too.

    They are hungry to win.  She'll get spikes in the polls when she says something that throws them red meat, but she cannot sustain for the long term through a campaign on her own.  

    She'll be used as a fundraiser, but when many Republicans don't even like her, she doesn't stand a chance.  

    Parent

    we will (none / 0) (#43)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 12:21:11 PM EST
    see, I guess.

    and about Huckabee.  I think he could also be a threat.  possibly more so than Romney.  he is a very skilled politician. unlike some people.


    Parent

    Personally, I see Palin and Huckabee (none / 0) (#53)
    by Untold Story on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 12:31:40 PM EST
    as clowns in a political arena and often wonder how anyone can take them seriously after they have been so exposed, with faults dangling mercilessly from each appearance!

    Romney - noticed from a recent photo has stopped his Botox treatments.  He does have deep furrows across his forehead - wonder if networks, other than Fox, will air brush those out!

    Parent

    three words on (none / 0) (#54)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 12:36:07 PM EST
    the unelectability of clowns.

    George Dubya Bush

    Parent

    Bush (none / 0) (#122)
    by jondee on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 04:31:36 PM EST
    precisely. A two-term talking bass/pet rock..

    Parent
    also (none / 0) (#55)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 12:37:40 PM EST
    I gotta tell you being a resident of arkansas I have seen a different side of Huck.  he is no clown.
    he is a very shrewd pol.  I actually think in some ways he is made to order for the current rebublican party.


    Parent
    'Seem to recall Bill Clinton saying (none / 0) (#115)
    by christinep on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 03:42:46 PM EST
    that Huckabee may surprise a lot of people in that way. He was speaking in a cautionary way about the potentially strong appeal of Huckabee.

    Parent
    Appeal? (none / 0) (#130)
    by Untold Story on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 05:17:15 PM EST
    Why doesn't having a brain count anymore?

    Appealing - Bill Clinton must have been making a joke!

    Parent

    trust me (none / 0) (#135)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 05:29:40 PM EST
    he was not joking.  Huck has gobs of appeal to the thumpers he wants to appeal to.  
    Bubba is a smart pol and he knows one when he sees one.  and he saw Huck up close and personal.

    and more importantly he is no Palin stupid.  he is smart and articulate (in a neanderthal way) and he knows the issues.

    be afraid.  

    Parent

    Who knew - or could ever know! (none / 0) (#138)
    by Untold Story on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 05:50:55 PM EST
    But take your word on that.

    Parent
    watch this (none / 0) (#141)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 05:58:13 PM EST
    or as much as you can take.  and tell me you dont think he is a pretty skillful pol.

    Parent
    Agree (none / 0) (#145)
    by Untold Story on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 07:47:50 PM EST
    Thanks - always discounted him.  Quite the slick fellow, folksy as all get out!

    Parent
    I was afraid when he was running (none / 0) (#147)
    by nycstray on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 09:30:47 PM EST
    and getting votes. OY. But he's good at what he does. I even called my R parents (mom being the main target for me) and did a quick check. They both had him down as an extreme/not going there. But they have more moderate tendencies . . .

    He is smarter than Palin, and still has that folksy (sp??) way. I think he can go beyond thumpers in another run. If he pulls back a bit, his "base" already knows him, he could fool others . . .

    I can't tell ya how much I want to live somewhere where I don't have to deal with this sh*t.

    Parent

    Continuing my theme (none / 0) (#21)
    by vicndabx on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 11:30:07 AM EST
    YouTube is one of the better inventions of the net.  

    Chris Rock and more Chris Rock.

    Please note: maybe offensive language or maybe not

    Parent

    Why is it? (none / 0) (#30)
    by efm on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 11:48:51 AM EST
    I just listened to audio and think Dr. Laura has a point.  Why is it socially acceptable for people of color to use the N word, but not when a white person uses the N word. Even in the context of asking why its OK for black people to use it and not white people, she is a racist and has to give up her show.   Jade never said the context of her husband's friend's or neighbor's use of the N word. It could very well have been racist, but maybe it was used in the sense that the black comics on HBO use it, which somehow socially it is not considered to be racist.

    Parent
    Is that really the point, though? (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by Anne on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 12:05:58 PM EST
    Speaking for myself, whether or not someone thinks it's okay within some defined zone to refer to other people with labels that are demeaning, stereotypical and/or abusive, isn't really the point.

    I think it would be a good thing if demeaning language was not tolerated within anyone's own cultural, ethnic, family or community group, because it serves no overall positive purpose.

    Parent

    I agree with you (none / 0) (#42)
    by efm on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 12:15:33 PM EST
    I don't think anyone should be using the word, no matter what their cultural or ethnic background is.  But thats not the way it is right now, its perfectly OK, if not cool, for black people to use the word in any context, but white people can't even think the word, again no matter what context, or be labled a racist.

    Parent
    Language Police? (5.00 / 1) (#134)
    by squeaky on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 05:27:34 PM EST
    Should tomato be outlawed too...  how about Sweetie, Pussy, Dick.

    Words gain their meaning by the intent of the speaker. Two people could use the word nigger and mean completely opposite things. In fact Dr Laura's use of the word was not offensive at all. What was offensive were all the other normal every day words she used to show what a racist she was.

    Parent

    I see it differently from oppressed groups (none / 0) (#56)
    by Untold Story on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 12:38:43 PM EST
    it is an ownership - a right to have roots which belong to these groups alone.

    Parent
    If groups don't want to be separated (none / 0) (#119)
    by Inspector Gadget on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 04:19:01 PM EST
    and treated differently, shouldn't they stop with the separation tactics?

    "I can say this and do that because I'm in the group where it is allowed and you're not" is just plain asking to be offended.


    Parent

    maybe (none / 0) (#121)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 04:20:58 PM EST
    one group should stop telling other groups what they should and should not do?


    Parent
    I think that's what (none / 0) (#128)
    by Inspector Gadget on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 05:13:55 PM EST
    I said :)

    Parent
    I understand the 'entitlement' there is (none / 0) (#133)
    by Untold Story on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 05:22:02 PM EST
    to owning a word, more or less.  It has been a long and difficult road.  Those that traveled or travel the road have earned the honor of calling themselves a hurtful and hateful word of years ago (and, in some cases, not that long ago, and yet to be).

    It is their right alone - not those that didn't face the oppression and discrimination.

    (Trying to make sense in words what I feel in my heart.)

    Parent

    thats not at all (none / 0) (#136)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 05:30:59 PM EST
    what you said.  and the fact that you dont know that illustrates the problem.

    Parent
    Actually, Capt, you are (none / 0) (#139)
    by Inspector Gadget on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 05:51:59 PM EST
    misreading.

    As long as you have not heard the exchange, you really don't know have a firm grasp on what you are talking about.

    Parent

    so (none / 0) (#140)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 05:55:17 PM EST
    the printed word, or what she actually said, is irrelevant.  interesting.

    I guess I will have to live with that because I would rather pierce both my eardrums with rusty forks than listen the that braying harpy.
     

    Parent

    I think... (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by kdog on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 01:26:45 PM EST
    all words are available for everyone to use...words are like tools in a toolbox, all have their uses.  None are "never to be uttered".

    Just don't be surprised if your use of certain words reflects poorly on you, or offends others...that's all.  Dr. Laura's use, apparently, offended others and reflected poorly on her.

    Parent

    well said (none / 0) (#82)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 01:28:29 PM EST
    you or I can certainly use that word.  we do not depend on advertising dollars.  if you depend on advertising dollars you live by different rules.  this should not be news to Dr Loser.


    Parent
    She didn't (5.00 / 1) (#120)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 04:19:24 PM EST
    "have to give up her show."  She decided to quit in a snit, braying nonsense on Larry King about her "1st amendment rights" being infringed by "some special interest."

    Parent
    "some special interest"? (none / 0) (#127)
    by nycstray on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 05:08:31 PM EST
    is she referring to all the people she offended?

    Parent
    Did you listen to it (none / 0) (#129)
    by Inspector Gadget on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 05:16:05 PM EST
    or just read the transcript?

    Hearing it is much different than reading it.

    Parent

    I hear if you read (none / 0) (#137)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 05:39:05 PM EST
    the transcripts Nixon won the famous Kennedy Nixon debate.

    I did not and will not hear it.  I read it.  I know what she said.  and even if I did I doubt very much her engaging folksy style would change my opinion of what she said.


    Parent

    Not just read the transcripts (none / 0) (#142)
    by caseyOR on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 06:27:28 PM EST
    of the Kennedy-Nixon debate. People who listened to the debate on the radio generally thought Nixon did the better job. This debate was televised though, and Jack Kennedy was made for TV. Nixon just could not compete in that medium.

    Parent
    True. Apparently, JFK's accent (none / 0) (#143)
    by Cream City on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 06:45:11 PM EST
    was off-putting to many, in part.  And according to the experts/pundits then, Nixon exhibited more encyclopedic knowledge, reflect his far more extensive experience (as VP, on specific Senate committees, etc.).  

    Some say experience mattered more then, personality less -- but personality communicated on the screen apparently mattered most, at least in the debate.  Interestingly different factors were delineated in the election, though -- but some factors then were discounted in later studies of the election.  

    And it was early days in trying to assess the impact of teevee -- as well as the impact of a presidential candidates' debate at all, with no basis for comparison.

    Parent

    I've read that Nixon did not (none / 0) (#144)
    by caseyOR on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 07:07:41 PM EST
    understand the medium of TV the way Kennedy did. Examples I've seen include Nixon's refusing to wear make-up which would have concealed his heavy beard; Kennedy wearing a blue shirt instead of a white one, blue being a better color for the lights used at that time; and Nixon obviously perspiring during the debate, due I would imagine to the hot lights.

    Parent
    Yep, on all counts (none / 0) (#146)
    by Cream City on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 08:09:00 PM EST
    as was Ike.  Imagine the difference after Ike and Mamie (ohhhh, those bangs), the impact on the country of Jack and Jackie.  Good-looking as he was, she was just gorgeous.  I think that the impact of candidates' spouses still has not been adequately measured, either.

    Parent
    Yup. She was referring (none / 0) (#148)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 11:10:09 PM EST
    to African-Americans as "some special interest group."

    She's a nasty, nasty piece of work, IMHO.

    To me, the worst thing she said in her whole tirade was after the caller objected to her use of the "N" word, she said to her, "Don't NAACP me."  Wow.

    Parent

    and that is ignoring (none / 0) (#33)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 11:57:44 AM EST
    the "black-think" tripe

    Parent
    Points of view (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by efm on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 12:40:10 PM EST
    "OK, what do blacks think? What do whites think? What do Jews think? What do Catholics think?" Of course there isn't a one-think per se. But in general there's "think."

    I agree, with her here.  How is that racist. People of different backgrounds have different points of view.  I'm a white person, and with this Arizona law I asked some of my latino friends what they thought of it, because they are latino and may have a different point of view on the subject because of it.

    Parent

    Intent (none / 0) (#132)
    by squeaky on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 05:18:25 PM EST
    Another "Sweet Claire" in the making? (none / 0) (#9)
    by MO Blue on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 11:18:06 AM EST
    Breaking from the president and the majority of her party, Robin Carnahan, the Democratic Senate candidate in Missouri, announced on Thursday that she supports extending the Bush tax cuts for all recipients, including the wealthy.

    In an appearance before the state fair in Sedalia, Missouri, Carnahan stressed that "now [was] not the time to raise taxes" for members of any income class. Tony Messenger, a reporter with the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, was at the fair and tweeted the news. A Carnahan campaign aide confirmed the Secretary of State's position to the Huffington Post. link



    At the state fair? Stupid. (none / 0) (#15)
    by oculus on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 11:25:28 AM EST
    See TL sidebar for link to Lewis Black (none / 0) (#19)
    by oculus on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 11:26:39 AM EST
    emoting over EPL, the book.  And panning the movie.  Really funny.

    P.S.  I abandoned the book when the protagonist jumped out the window at the ashram.  Talk about a navel gazer.

    I thought it was really funny too (none / 0) (#28)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 11:43:44 AM EST
    I got distracted though over there by another story about Dr. Laura takes the beaver and goes home.  That one is waaaaay wrong.  I heard there were naked pictures of Dr. Laura, the paragon of virtue, out there.

    Parent
    There are (5.00 / 1) (#118)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 04:15:29 PM EST
    though to be fair, they were taken long, long ago.  But they're crude cr*tch shots.  Yech.

    Parent
    I believe (none / 0) (#52)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 12:31:30 PM EST
    you heard correctly.

    Parent
    That doesn't say anything (none / 0) (#37)
    by efm on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 12:06:21 PM EST
    If anything that post emphasize my question.  Its good that Pryor later disowned the word. But how was it OK for him to say it, but not his wife? That doesn't seem very equal to me.   Dr. Laura said the N word asking why its ok for black people to say it and not white people.  

    for the same reason (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 12:08:42 PM EST
    its ok for me to call my friends faggots but its not ok for you to.
    assuming you are straight.
    if you dont get that I probably can not explain it to you.

    Parent
    Or women call one another (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by vicndabx on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 12:11:20 PM EST
    b!tches.  Or any other group that has a term reserved for itself.  Context is what matters in all cases.

    Parent
    yup (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by CST on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 12:45:21 PM EST
    this is really obvious to me.

    You can use words that apply to yourself differently than you use words that apply to others.  Period.

    And that's true no matter what group you self-identify with.

    Parent

    I honestly (none / 0) (#61)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 12:50:38 PM EST
    dont get what is difficult to understand about that

    Parent
    Then why (none / 0) (#63)
    by efm on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 12:53:12 PM EST
    is it perfectly acceptable for black people to call white people crackers.

    Parent
    cracker (none / 0) (#65)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 12:56:41 PM EST
    is not the same as the n word.  it just isnt.
    there are hundreds of years of history involved.

    Parent
    that's true (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by CST on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 12:59:17 PM EST
    but lets face it, it's certainly not a nice thing to call someone.  And I certainly can't see someone like Obama or even Oprah really getting away with it.

    But there is the history and power-relationship factor to the n word which does not exist with cracker - that's true as well.

    Parent

    it is (none / 0) (#70)
    by efm on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 01:00:13 PM EST
    still a derogatory word. Just like white trash is a derogatory phrase, but nobody cares when people who don't fit into that category say it.

    Parent
    that's because (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by CST on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 01:04:50 PM EST
    of the balance of power.

    Parent
    But I thought (none / 0) (#76)
    by efm on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 01:16:37 PM EST
    You can use words that apply to yourself differently than you use words that apply to others.  Period.

    And that's true no matter what group you self-identify with.



    Parent
    yes (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by CST on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 01:20:20 PM EST
    and white people can use cracker differently than black people can.  There are scales of "badness" in all words.  For example, I would consider c*nt to be worse than b*tch.  That doesn't mean it's not still worse for a guy to call me a b*tch than a girl to call me the same thing.

    Parent
    But in reality (none / 0) (#85)
    by efm on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 01:34:19 PM EST
    that is not the case. How often do you hear white people calling each other cracker. Honesly, I can't think of an instance in which I've heard that. But I also can't count how many times I've heard minorities call white people that. That is acceptable today, but my point was that why was it unacceptable to for Dr. Laura to ask why can black people say the N word over and over again, but white people can not say it, or think it.

    So in todays society, for the most part, its ok for black people to call black people the N word, for white people to call white people cracker, for black people to call white people cracker (or any other derogitory term), but its unacceptable for white people to say the N word in any context at all.

    Parent

    "I can't think of an instance . . (none / 0) (#86)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 01:39:41 PM EST
    . . . in which I've heard that."

    read more of my comments.  you will.

    Parent

    I'm sorry (none / 0) (#91)
    by efm on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 01:49:52 PM EST
    I'm sure that it has happend. I have not heard or read every conversation that everyone has ever had. It is my experience that minorities call white people cracker far more than white call each other the term.

    Parent
    I disagree (none / 0) (#87)
    by CST on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 01:40:48 PM EST
    on a lot of that.  I don't think it's really acceptable for black people to use the word cracker.  If someone said that to my face I would probably say something (sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shut and keep walking).  And I've also heard plenty of white people who are free with the n word - sometimes even in front of black people (who kept their mouth shut and kept walking...).

    But I don't think public figures could really get away with either one.  Can you imagine Oprah getting away with calling someone a cracker?  I sure can't.

    Unless they are comedians.  And I've certainly heard white comedians who are free with the N word and do not get heat for it - because of how it's used.

    Parent

    Public and political (none / 0) (#94)
    by efm on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 02:06:38 PM EST
    figures can't get away with saying a lot of things, swearing and such. But those words are generally accepted by Americans. They may or may not be polite but its acceptable. But I also don't think Obama or Oprah would get away with causually using the N word, even though they are black.

    I didn't even know who Dr. Laura was before this happend, but I listened to the audio to form my own opinion and she was asking why its ok to hear the word over and over again from black people, but if a white person says it then they are a racist, no matter what context they used it in. It may not have been the best way to ask the question, but I don't think it was a racist question.


    Parent

    from Nah right (none / 0) (#97)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 02:15:28 PM EST
    maybe we should hear what those effected think?

    So I caught that Oprah episode with the cast of `Crash' last night and I am now inclined to believe that the Chappelle Theory is at least somewhat based in fact. It was so disgusting how Oprah sat up there and chastised Terrence Howard, Luda, and Don Cheadle for using the word nigga, while the camera cuts to shots of her 90% white audience nodding their heads in blind agreement. Oh please, you mindless middle class white soccer moms who can't even go into a bookstore on your own and buy something unless Oprah deems it worthy, can spare me your irrelevant opinions. Like who the hell asked ya'll anyway what you think of that word? Your ancestors created it, but now you can't even hear it because it offends your politically correct sensibilities? And then they all want to cry and sh!t while Howard tells the story about his father getting beat up and thrown in jail? Kill yourselves. And did you see that racist black chick talking about she wouldn't let a black locksmith change her locks because she's afraid he would turn around and sell the key to somebody? Luda looked like he wanted to slap spit outta her mouth.  I will say however, that although it was obvious that Luda's comments were edited, I don't feel like he came across as `the ignorant rapper.' He made some decent comments, but  it was painfully obvious that Oprah didn't appreciate his presence on the show. It's all good though Oprah, `cuz in 20 years when somebody like Hov or Russell are in the position you're in, we won't have to deal with close minded fools like yourself that feel they should control the domestic policy of black people. To borrow a phrase from Bol, let's hunt and kill Oprah.


    Parent
    Is there a difference between (none / 0) (#131)
    by Inspector Gadget on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 05:17:26 PM EST
    calling someone something and simply saying the word?

    Parent
    I don't think it is (none / 0) (#67)
    by CST on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 12:57:36 PM EST
    socially acceptable at all in polite conversation.

    Do some comedians do it and get away with it?  Sure.  But I know plenty of white comedians who get away with the other one too because of context.  Comedians will always have more leeway than others, depending on how it's being used.

    But I don't think you'll really see too many people defending the use of the word cracker in other contexts.  Do people use it?  Sure.  But it's meant to be offensive.  Kind of like all the white people who use the "n" word (sorry Louis C.K.) when they are talking about black people to each other - which does happen.

    Parent

    Lisa Lampinelli (none / 0) (#71)
    by vicndabx on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 01:01:11 PM EST
    how about context. (none / 0) (#47)
    by efm on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 12:24:25 PM EST
    Context is what matters, they are your friends. I'm sure if you go up to some complete stranger thats gay and call them a faggot it wouldn't be OK, just as its not OK for me to call your friends that.

    Parent
    wrong (none / 0) (#51)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 12:30:08 PM EST
    it is pretty universally used.

    Parent
    I think its context (none / 0) (#62)
    by efm on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 12:51:45 PM EST
    I shared a small room with a gay guy for a year while deployed in Iraq. We called each other all sorts of names, but we were close and we did it in that weird sense of male comradery where you make fun of your friends.  But if I went to some gay guy that I didn't know and said "Hey, Faggot" then it would be wrong.

    Parent
    wouldnt argue with that (none / 0) (#64)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 12:55:57 PM EST
    personal relationships change things

    Parent
    Fair Game (none / 0) (#58)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 12:44:15 PM EST
    Summit Entertainment have released the movie trailer for Doug Liman's political drama Fair Game. The film stars Naomi Watts as real-life undercover CIA operative Valerie Plame and Sean Penn  as her husband Joe Wilson. We all know the story which captured the news headlines, but the movie tells the tale from a more personal perspective. I had a chance to screen this film at the Cannes Film Festival and very much enjoyed it. I think a lot of people will be surprised at just how uninteresting the life of an undercover CIA operative really is, definitely nothing like it has been portrayed in most of the films over the years. But the political story that results from Plame's identity leak is far more interesting and compelling.

    Watch the trailer now embedded after the jump.




    surprised (none / 0) (#80)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 01:26:59 PM EST
    no one has any thoughts on this.  the trailer looks really good.


    Parent
    Sports and the Law (none / 0) (#66)
    by CoralGables on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 12:57:04 PM EST
    "Federal authorities have decided to indict Roger Clemens on charges of making false statements to Congress about his use of performance-enhancing drugs..."

    I'm getting so tired... (none / 0) (#75)
    by kdog on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 01:09:15 PM EST
    of these federal authorities...what a drain, what a drag.  

    Somebody get them real jobs...pretty please:)

    Parent

    I agree with you, get them real jobs.

    Parent
    Yes, Dog (none / 0) (#81)
    by Zorba on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 01:27:52 PM EST
    I'm getting tired of this, too.  Our taxpayer money has better things to do than this type of thing.

    Parent
    Besides... (none / 0) (#89)
    by kdog on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 01:44:40 PM EST
    who needs an authority figure to tell 'em Roger Freakin' Clemens is a liar and a roid-head...I certainly don't, no more so than I need a federal authority to tell me the sun will rise tomorrow:)

    And I couldn't care less that Roger Clemens was on the juice and lied about to Congress...you're supposed to lie to authorities about your illegal drug use...I mean duh!  

    Parent

    Selective aren't they! (none / 0) (#88)
    by mmc9431 on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 01:41:54 PM EST
    And why Clemens? There was an entire parade of players that testified.

    What about all the Bush people that lied on every subject for 8 yrs? Whether it was leaks, wire tapping or torture.

    As a citizen I am a lot more concerned about what the crooks in government are doing, than what some athlete is doing. (Like we didn't know steroids are common in all sports today).

    Parent

    Inequality under the law... (none / 0) (#90)
    by kdog on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 01:45:58 PM EST
    authorities are totally allowed to lie to us, we are not allowed to lie to them.  The ultimate double standard.

    Parent
    LOL! (none / 0) (#96)
    by Zorba on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 02:08:35 PM EST
    Yes, I've always wondered why it's acceptable for the police and the feds to lie to suspects, or the American public, but heaven forbid that we lie to them!  I'm not talking about lying under oath in a courtroom, I'm talking about lying to any local, state, or federal cop.  It's what Rod Blagojevich got convicted of, it's what Martha Stewart got convicted of, and spent time in the clink for.  I tell everyone I know, if a cop of any jurisdiction starts asking you questions- shut up, say nothing!- and call your lawyer.

    Parent
    I agree with the "don't talk" advice. (5.00 / 1) (#107)
    by oculus on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 02:48:21 PM EST
    But I don't think it is a crime to lie to a local law enforcement officer.  

    Parent
    Depends... (none / 0) (#111)
    by kdog on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 03:13:53 PM EST
    they can call a lie "obstruction" and slap the chains on ya, then its up to the DA to make it stick.

    Parent
    Ah, yes (none / 0) (#126)
    by Zorba on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 05:06:20 PM EST
    "Obstruction of justice."  A great catch-all, along with "conspiracy" and, for that matter, the RICO laws.

    Parent
    Normally I'd be a little (none / 0) (#103)
    by brodie on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 02:36:31 PM EST
    annoyed that the feds went after this, but reading the story it appears he had two witnesses, under oath, who contradicted him about using steroids, including the person who injected him.

    Also relevant, as I recall his career, were his stints playing for teams like the TX Rangers, Boston RedSox, and NY Yankees -- just about the trifecta as far as despised baseball teams for me.  Although I didn't mind the cursed Sox so much until Schilling came along and they actually started winning WS.

    That said, I'd gladly trade a Clemons indictment for the fed going after look-the-other-way MLB Comm'r Bud Selig, if that could be arranged.

    Parent

    as a red sox fan (none / 0) (#105)
    by CST on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 02:42:06 PM EST
    I have to say... f*ck Clemens.

    Yes, I'm that petty.

    Parent

    Wondering how Yankee fans feel (none / 0) (#125)
    by oculus on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 04:44:53 PM EST
    about Clemens.

    Parent
    We should give him credit (none / 0) (#110)
    by CoralGables on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 02:52:34 PM EST
    for ingenuity when he blamed his wife for the HGH saying she used it for her SI photo shoot. He may deserve the slap down for that alone.

    Parent
    AND (none / 0) (#68)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 12:58:32 PM EST
    Dexter season five trailer.
    Dexters world is turned upside down.

    I. cant. wait.
    sept 26th

    Law and Order Beat... (none / 0) (#74)
    by kdog on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 01:08:03 PM EST
    I can't get down with this Jersey Shore thing, but that doesn't mean it's ok for the DA to pile charges on Snooki...like "criminal annoyance".  Another one so vague half the country could be charged...get a life DA.

    And the NYPD must be so proud...another pointless drug sweep, but this time it is they netted a 12 year old girl.  Naturally she will be charged with felonies...we're as bad as the crew that put her on the streets to sling dope, I swear.  This girl surely needs some hugs, not chains and a cage.

    incredible (none / 0) (#83)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 01:30:33 PM EST
    The results from a new Pew make you want to shake your head about, well, the entire media landscape of the 21st century. Per the survey, only 34% believe -- correctly -- that President Obama is a Christian (down 17 points since 2008); 18% think he's a Muslim (up six points since '08); and 43% say they don't know his religion (up 11 points). Inside the numbers: "The belief that Obama is a Muslim has increased most sharply among Republicans (up 14 points since 2009), especially conservative Republicans (up 16 points)," the poll's press release says. "But the number of independents who say Obama is a Muslim has also increased significantly (up eight points)." These results don't many anyone look good -- Obama's political opponents (who have helped spread false information about the president's religion and birthplace), the press (which obviously hasn't done its job here, thanks to some outlets even serving as a megaphone by running false equivalency debates), and the American populace (which should be embarrassed).


    Head, meet desk (5.00 / 2) (#98)
    by Zorba on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 02:15:34 PM EST
    I'm increasingly pounding my head over the absolute stupidity of the American public.  Personally, I don't give a fig if Obama is Christian, Muslim, Wiccan, atheist, or believes in the Flying Spaghetti Monster.  But clearly, he's not a Muslim, and clearly, the fact that so many Americans think that he is, and think that this is "Oh, horrible, he must be a terrorist because all Muslims are obviously terrorists!" makes me want to weep for my country, and almost wish that we could have IQ tests before voting (not really, given the history of "literacy tests" to keep blacks from voting in the past, but you know what I mean).

    Parent
    and (none / 0) (#99)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 02:20:02 PM EST
    the numbers are INCREASING.

    wtf

    Parent

    Remember the recent reports the (5.00 / 2) (#109)
    by oculus on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 02:51:25 PM EST
    Obamas don't attend an organized church because it would disturb other worshippers.  But the Pres. gets prayers on his Blackberry.  Bet the First Family starts publicly and frequently attending Sunday services very soon.

    Parent
    I hope (none / 0) (#113)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 03:15:30 PM EST
    not

    Parent
    Really makes me wonder what the point is (none / 0) (#95)
    by ruffian on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 02:08:11 PM EST
    of even trying to have an intelligent discussion of issues. There I go getting all intellectually elite, but really, why bother?

    Parent
    One reason to bother... (none / 0) (#102)
    by kdog on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 02:34:39 PM EST
    is someone might overhear you debating that brick wall of blissful ignorance.

    And ya never know, miracles happen and a lighbulb can illuminate in the dimmest of craniums.

    Parent

    It's worth it to hang in there (none / 0) (#108)
    by Cream City on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 02:48:30 PM EST
    and try.  I'm at the end of my last summer course now, yay!, when we're up to the present time in U.S. history.  So we are reading and discussing all sorts of still-current issues.  And believe me, many of my students are fundamentalists, evangelicals, etc.  

    But with all sorts of ground rules established early on about civility -- and especially even encouraging compliments to each other before critiquing -- most in this very disparate group are able to discuss, if agreeing to disagree.

    What is important, I think, is not challenging religiously held beliefs -- so imposing my own -- but challenging misinformation.  So I just wrote yet another of my many, many clarifications of the facts (about Roe v. Wade, about subsequent rulings, about the Thomas-Hill hearings, about the ERA, etc. -- or in other courses, it would e all those and about antiwar protests in the Vietnam Era, etc., etc.).  Sigh.  

    Will they change their beliefs?  I hope not, not based on one college course.  Will they examine their beliefs, in the light of some corrected information?  I hope so.  If we have better informed conservatives, especially those who learn from this to challenge all that they will hear ahead without clarifications to find out on their own, we may be able to get back to civil discourse and effective compromises in this country.

    Parent

    Purity Troll? (none / 0) (#84)
    by vicndabx on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 01:30:50 PM EST
    Federal authorities have decided to indict Roger Clemens on charges of making false statements to Congress about his use of performance-enhancing drugs

    NY Times

    old people (none / 0) (#93)
    by CST on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 02:01:18 PM EST
    in general I think get away with saying some things others wouldn't.

    I went out to lunch one day with some co-workers, and there was an elderly gentleman outside the restaurant handing out recipes.  One of my male co-workers asked for one.  The man told him "just get your wife to make it for you" and handed the recipe to the woman standing next to him - who most certainly was not his wife.  Jaws dropped but we all just kind of laughed about it, and she gave him the recipe when we were inside.

    If that was anyone under 70 I guarantee they both would have said something.

    in the Midwest in an earlier era this (none / 0) (#106)
    by oculus on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 02:42:50 PM EST
    was what everyone I knew called Brazil nuts.

    funny (none / 0) (#112)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 03:14:39 PM EST
    My son (none / 0) (#123)
    by Molly Pitcher on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 04:32:29 PM EST
    Went to Thailand with his 'husband.'  Does that mean he's gay?  But his favorite TV show was Wonder Woman.

    Tho' I sort of think gaydar exists.

    Parent

    gaydar (none / 0) (#124)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 04:37:47 PM EST
    totally and definitely exists.

    wonder woman?

    Parent

    also funny (none / 0) (#114)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 03:29:14 PM EST
    attempted hijacking? (none / 0) (#116)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 04:14:07 PM EST
    Passengers Detained On Delayed SFO Flight

    SAN FRANCISCO -- Two people were detained on an American Airlines 767 aircraft Thursday after a phone threat was called to local authorities, a witness on the plane told KTVU.

    A threat of a potential hijacker onboard an American Airlines 767 jet at San Francisco International Airport Thursday forced the flight to be delayed and the passengers rescreened, officials said.

    A spokesman for the San Francisco International Airport said a threat was called in to the Alameda County Sheriff's Department reporting that a hijacker may be onboard.

    The plane was taken to the tarmac and the passengers were to be removed and rescreened.



    For us hillbillies, (none / 0) (#117)
    by Molly Pitcher on Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 04:15:23 PM EST
    those were common words for Brazil nuts.  (Altho i will cop to being a hillbilly, I do not use the n-word to or about anyone.  Even the family elders who might use it 'just between us' knew that 'nice' folks did not say it.