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Joran Van der Sloot's Mother Heading to Peru, Attorney Claims Confession Coerced

By Jeralyn, Section Crime in the News
Posted on Tue Jun 08, 2010 at 06:19:04 PM EST
Tags: Joran Van der Sloot (all tags)
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According to news reports in Peru, Joran Van der Sloot's mother, Anita Van der Sloot, is heading to Peru to support her son. (Google translation here.)

The article also states Joran will be moved to Miguel Castro Castro prison after being charged and sentenced. (My prior post on the prison is here. )Authorities have delayed his trip to the hotel to walk them through events due to security. It is now scheduled for tomorrow.

In other reports, Joran's Dutch attorney says Joran told his mother his confession was coerced.

the Dutch newspaper De Volkskrant quoted the suspect's lawyer in the Netherlands as suggesting the confession may have been coerced.

"Joran told his mother crying Monday that he was being interrogated under reasonably barbaric conditions," the paper quoted Bert De Rooij saying. "He said the police were trying to force him to confess." Under such conditions, he said, the "confession was possibly false."

The public defender assigned to Joran now says she wasn't at the confession.

The state-appointed lawyer who represented Van der Sloot in initial interrogations, Carla Odria, told the AP that a different lawyer, who she said was hired by the suspect, was with Van der Sloot on Monday. She said she did not know the lawyer's name. Authorities would not release the name of the lawyer.

To be continued....

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    Joran Van der Sloot's Mother Heading to Peru, Attorney Claims Confession Coerced | 107 comments (107 topical)

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    Having read that John Grisham book (none / 0) (#1)
    by ruffian on Tue Jun 08, 2010 at 06:27:58 PM EST
    The Innocent Man recently, I would need a lot more evidence that that confession if I were on the jury.

    Heck of a book (none / 0) (#10)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Jun 08, 2010 at 06:58:28 PM EST


    Parent
    That's what I was thinking! (none / 0) (#11)
    by mexboy on Tue Jun 08, 2010 at 07:16:43 PM EST


    Parent
    Horrible what they did to those (none / 0) (#15)
    by ruffian on Tue Jun 08, 2010 at 07:38:36 PM EST
    2 young guys with 'dream' confessions, much less the main subject of the book. They are still in prison. The Van Der Sloot marijuana story reminds me of that. Maybe unfairly, I can hear the cop- maybe you were high, and you did it then.

    Parent
    Wondering if Peruvian case law and/or (none / 0) (#2)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 08, 2010 at 06:28:21 PM EST
    constitution provide a remedy for a confession deemed not to be volunatary?

    Attorney claims (none / 0) (#3)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Jun 08, 2010 at 06:35:42 PM EST
    mother claims son claims confession was coerced seems more accurate to me.

    At least from the provided link.

    In fact (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Jun 08, 2010 at 06:39:12 PM EST
    that is pretty inaccurate as well.

    Thelawyer appears to say that the mother says that the son says that the questioning was under "barbaric" conditions.

    And the lawyer infers that under such conditions, the confession was "possibly false."

    It seems that Joran van der Sloot still has not decided whether to renounce the confession or not, but is leaving open that possibility.

    Parent

    Will that invaldiate (none / 0) (#5)
    by Zorba on Tue Jun 08, 2010 at 06:44:50 PM EST
    his confession?  Given the Peruvian justice system, and all.

    Parent
    Would it invalidate it under US law? (none / 0) (#7)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Jun 08, 2010 at 06:51:26 PM EST
    I understand Miranda warnings, I think, and my understanding is if a suspect invokes his right to remain silent, all questioning must stop. Similarly if a suspect invokes his right to an attorney.

    But suppose the suspect chooses not to be silent or avail himself of his right to an attorney, what then?

    What are the limits, if any regarding questioning of a suspect under US law?

    Parent

    Not sure (none / 0) (#8)
    by Zorba on Tue Jun 08, 2010 at 06:55:43 PM EST
    under US law, but I'm even more not sure under Peruvian law.  In fact, I have no frigging idea what the Peruvian justice system will find.

    Parent
    Obama-centric point (none / 0) (#9)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Jun 08, 2010 at 06:58:08 PM EST
    His sponsored Illinois law that all interrogations and confessions be videotaped would certainly be useful in all jurisdictions, including, apparently, Peru.  

    Parent
    LOL! (n/t) (none / 0) (#12)
    by Zorba on Tue Jun 08, 2010 at 07:25:01 PM EST


    Parent
    In the Napoleonic system (none / 0) (#13)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Jun 08, 2010 at 07:28:45 PM EST
    as it is/was practiced in Aruba/Netherlands, my memory from the Holloway case is that police interrogation has fewer limits than it does in the U.S. and I'm pretty sure the suspect does not have a right to have his lawyer present.  However, to balance that out, I guess, the suspect is under no obligation whatsoever to tell the truth and faces no legal penalty if he does not.  (And plea bargains, as I understood it, were expressly forbidden.)

    Don't know how similar Peru's version is, but from the bits and pieces we've heard, it sounds pretty similar.

    In the absence of a Peruvian legal expert here at TL, you (or somebody) might want to go back and look up what Van Der Sloot was subjected to in Aruba the times he was arrested and held for questioning there.

    There was considerable discussion of the Aruban/Dutch system for all this at least on Greta Van Susteren's show, and she regularly had on one or another Aruban attorney to explain the procedure and the fine points of legal restrictions on police and suspects.

    It's very, very different from our expectations here in the U.S.

    Parent

    Not interested enough (none / 0) (#14)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Jun 08, 2010 at 07:30:15 PM EST
    for that.

    Need to finish my World Cup previews anyway.

    Parent

    Under U.S. law, that is, (none / 0) (#21)
    by Peter G on Tue Jun 08, 2010 at 10:23:50 PM EST
    the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment (state and local cases) and the Self-Incrimination Clause of the Fifth (as to federal cases), a statement that is not "voluntarily" given is inadmissible.  All the facts and circumstances are to be taken into account -- police conduct, passage of time, defendant's mental and physical capacities and age, etc.  If the judge after a pretrial hearing finds the statement was compelled or involuntary, it must be excluded from evidence.  Even if the judge does not make this finding, the defendant is entitled to relitigate the question before the jury, and to have the benefit of an instruction that the jury should not consider any statement the defendant made if it was not voluntarily given.  (It was frustration with the fuzziness and subjectivity of this standard that led the Supreme Court in 1966 to adopt the supposedly bright-line and mechanical Miranda rules.)

    Parent
    well, first off, (none / 0) (#27)
    by cpinva on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 12:28:47 AM EST
    under current US case law, you must give up, at least temporarily, your right to remain silent, in order to claim your right to remain silent.

    if the peruvian supreme judicial body uses the same logic as the "gang o' five" does here, i'm surprised mr. van der sloot hasn't been executed already.

    Parent

    That's not true (none / 0) (#61)
    by Patrick on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 01:13:43 PM EST
    You can remain silent, you just need to remain silent, that means say nothing at all.  of course if you say, "I choose to remain silent" what have you given up?  Your right only extends to self incrimination, and the above statement does not incriminate you.  

    And again, that only applies to custodial interrogations.  U.S. Law does not give you the right not to answer questions about your identity if you've been lawfully detained. Not doing so could result in criminal charges.  

    Parent

    Question for criminal law experts (none / 0) (#6)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Jun 08, 2010 at 06:48:45 PM EST
    What constitutes "coercing a confession" under the law?

    Is it like the "giving the third degree" in the movies?

    Or, to make another movie reference, is it like what was portrayed in "In The Name of The Father" - making physical threats?

    Is haranguing a suspect the equivalent of coercion?

    What rules of the road, if any, are applied to confessions under federal law or the laws of the states?

    Can the police say something like  "we know you did it, we have the evidence, it will go better for you if you confess?" Is that a legal interrogation? Would a confess drawn from such questioning be permitted?


    Parent

    See my comment #21 (none / 0) (#23)
    by Peter G on Tue Jun 08, 2010 at 10:47:10 PM EST
    And specifically, yes, the case law says the police may lie and trick the arrested person into confessing by such tactics as misrepresenting the extent of the evidence they already have, falsely asserting that a co-defendant has fingered the person being interrogated, or promising that if only the suspect confesses everything will be all right (or better) for him, when the police know that the opposite it true.  Physical abuse and threats of violence are unlawful, but the question that decides whether the "confession" is admissible is not whether illegal tactics were used but rather whether the statement was voluntarily made.  Thus, haranguing may or may not produce an involuntary (i.e., inadmissible) statement.

    Parent
    per the USSC, (none / 0) (#28)
    by cpinva on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 12:33:47 AM EST
    the police can use any method, short of actual or threats of physical violence, to extract a confession. they can lie, cheat, steal, whatever, just no touching.

    Parent
    "Reasonably barbaric," (none / 0) (#26)
    by oculus on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 12:20:51 AM EST
    whatever that means.

    Parent
    His attorney said (none / 0) (#37)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 07:04:57 AM EST
    That his mother said, that Van der Sloot said (triple hearsay):

    Van der Sloot's mother spoke to her 22-year-old son and says the confession may have been coerced.

    She spoke to the family's Dutch attorney, Bert de Rooij, who told CBS News, "He said, 'I'm being interrogated in a very rude way' ... and he said, 'I think they are aiming at a coerced confession." '

    Let's see...last night he said he was high when he committed the crime, and now the interrogators are "being rude" and the attorney is saying that it's "aimed at a coerced confession". Hmmm...that would be pretty stupid of the Peruvian officials with the entire world watching them 24/7.  Of course, he is a demonstrated liar too.

    Can't wait to see what today's story is....

    Parent

    Blaming Marijuana (none / 0) (#62)
    by Patrick on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 01:15:03 PM EST
    for a murder?   Wow!  

    Parent
    Yeah (none / 0) (#63)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 01:18:19 PM EST
    I thought pot made people mellow, but then there are a few self-confessed users around here who are very aggressive, rude, and angry, so I guess anything is possible.

    Parent
    Defense Attorney on Nancy Grace (none / 0) (#16)
    by kasey9 on Tue Jun 08, 2010 at 07:41:28 PM EST
    States Joran had under gone days upon days of interrogation in Aruba and never spoke...now, he spends a day or so in Peru and all of sudden he confesses....He also finds it odd...there something wrong with this entire case from the very first second it was reported incorrectly as a stabbing...unbelievable!

    Perhaps, another innocent man will go to prison and may not in these Peru jail conditions, he may not make it out alive, simply because of the pressures and the politics the Peru authorites are under to convict a person and close this  case.

    For heaven's sake (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Jun 08, 2010 at 08:35:53 PM EST
    They didn't have a shred of evidence on him in Aruba.  Why would he confess?

    In Peru, they've pretty much got him cold, and by confessing he apparently is automatically entitled to a less severe sentence if his confession checks out.

    People have called Joran Van Der Sloot a lot of things, but "stupid" was never one of them.

    Also, you will have an easier time if you can make a habit of distinguishing between official police info and what distraught non-expert witnesses, like the victim's relatives or the person who discovers the body, tell reporters, or what their friends tell reporters they said.

    Hint: Early media reports of virtually every crime are always, always wrong in important particulars because of that.

    Parent

    Confession may have been coerced (none / 0) (#18)
    by kasey9 on Tue Jun 08, 2010 at 09:02:10 PM EST
    (I am not understanding your reply)

    My post was simply referring to the recent report and posting by Jeralyn - above - that the confession may have been coerced....and everyone in peru had him convicted simply due to the fact that he was the last person with her...(like Beth Halloway had him convicted in her eyes..as guilty because he was the last person with her daughter).  In minutes this story broke, no police reports, no investigation was completed, no dna was done...PERU police, the girls father, many people had him found Guilty. As the girls father stated...in his first tv statement that Joran killed his daughter like he did to the aruba girl.

    My post was questioning the interrogation, possibility of no attorney present and if Joran  confessed under barberic conditions - would it mean in the end...another innocent human being would spend years in prison because the police were under pressure to convict someone (who cares who) and solve the case.

    Parent

    You were apparently approvingly (none / 0) (#24)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Jun 08, 2010 at 11:43:14 PM EST
    quoting the silly attorney on Nancy Grace who was saying it made no sense for Joran to withstand months of scrutiny and questioning in Aruba and yet folded and confessed in two days in Peru.

    If you meant something else, I don't know what it is.

    "In minutes this story broke, no police reports, no investigation was completed, no dna was done."

    No idea what that sentence means.  You do not get police info until at least a day or two into a case, and often no DNA for a week or more, which is why you can't take initial reporting as anything other than hearsay and rumor and exaggerration.

    In addition, it is pretty routine for police and prosecutors the world over to keep some info to themselves until they have to reveal it in a legal proceeding.  SOP.  The police in Peru may well have fingernail DNA and clothing blood spots, tennis racket forensic evidence, etc., already in hand, but they're saving that info to see if Joran's reenactment is consistent with those things.

    Parent

    don't insult Kasey 9 (none / 0) (#34)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 01:21:37 AM EST
    or any other commenter please. You may disagree but don't ridicule his/her comments. (And I think he makes a good point.)

    Parent
    Jeralyn - Thank you. (none / 0) (#40)
    by kasey9 on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 09:17:20 AM EST


    Parent
    gyrfalcon (none / 0) (#39)
    by kasey9 on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 09:15:10 AM EST
    Perhaps in the future, you should read the entirety of someone's post and if you do not understand the overall trend of a post, perhaps you should ask a question instead of "trying" to refute it with lack of knowledge and inaccuracies.

    In addition you reposted half a sentence I wrote and state "I have no idea what that means" please take the time to read the entire sentence (ends with a period . )  

    "In minutes this story broke, no police reports, no investigation was completed, no dna was done...PERU police, the girls father, many people had him found Guilty".

     To define this sentence...again:  From the second they found the dead girl, the Peruvian police had him convicted as did Ms. Flores' father as his first interview I saw, he verbally speaks, holds a picture of Joran and states that Joran killed his daughter like he killed the Aruba girl. Period. End of sentence.

    If you are looking for a place to argue with people, this is not the platform.  Jeralyn obviously spends a large amount of time translating and posting comments and updates on this specific case as amongst others. Although, I agree with Jeralyns position and all her comments, some other comments I do not agree with...I respect everyones view, opinion and post etc.

    You had stated in one of your posts:

    "In Peru, they've pretty much got him cold, and by confessing he apparently is automatically entitled to a less severe sentence if his confession checks out".

    Have him Cold, I thought, how can they have him cold, just because he was the last person with the girl. That simply does not mean he was the one whom killed her...There are three hours of video that have not been revealed or played...how can you say have him cold...no dna evidence has been released, no exact time of death,  the investigation is not complete and the confession...well, That was possibly coerced...but, as an adult, I respected your statement, did not agree in any way shape or form, and I moved on...  

    From the way I understand the process, just because he confesses and shows that he takes responsibility, they examine the mitigating factors, the recreation of the scene (if he does it), mitigating factors, along with the evidence and then judge decides his sentence by reviewing the combination of everything described above...not simply because he "Supposedly"  confessed...

    Thank you.  


    Parent

    As politely as possible (none / 0) (#77)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 02:16:54 PM EST
    now it is you who is insulting and ridiculing.

    I quoted the part of your sentence I couldn't figure out.  The second half was entirely clear, if, in my opinion, entirely irrelevant.

    If by "In minutes this story broke" you meant to say "From the first minutes this story broke" or something like that, why not just say so?

    They've got him cold because the video surveillance is continuous and there's nobody else entering or leaving the room.  Why all 4 hours or whatever it is haven't been publicly released seems to me obvious.  They also almost certainly have his DNA from under her fingernails, her blood spots on his clothing and possibly her DNA on his tennis racket, though I'm dubious about that last one.

    If you prefer to think that it's all a grand conspiracy by the Peruvians and unnamed others to frame him, then you of course won't believe a word any of them says about anything.

    Parent

    Gayerfalcor - Really? Please provide link (none / 0) (#93)
    by kasey9 on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 04:34:56 PM EST
    "They've got him cold because the video surveillance is continuous and there's nobody else entering or leaving the room".

    REALLY????  Can you provide the link of that continuous footage....because the only footage I have seen was Joran and Ms.Flores entering the hotel.room, Joran leaving ONCE with his backbag & carry along bag...please show us where you saw the "continuous" uncut, unclipped, unedited video...because as I have read and saw there is also footage of him 1. leaving alone and returning with coffee, 2. the hotel personnel knocking on the door and 3. then the hotel staff entering with a key, 4. the police entering...so, obviously the video coverage you saw was the same everyone else saw...the clipped, cut, edited versions...

    "They also almost certainly have his DNA from under her fingernails" does not convict someone nor should it make the implication that they are guilty....which would mean they also almost certainly have his DNA from the knife that was reported in the stabbing...that doesn't exist either...assumptions are not good gayrfalcor.

    I do not respect your ongoing failed attempts to refute my opinions and/or your ignorance.

    Thank you, you have a good night and please do not try and refute any more, please follow the forum and be respectfulto all! Thank you.

    Parent

    Got him cold? (none / 0) (#19)
    by Untold Story on Tue Jun 08, 2010 at 10:15:15 PM EST
    Have not heard anything so far that makes me think Peru has Joran Van der Sloot cold?  

    The family kept saying in the beginning they were getting their information from the investigators, which has all proven to be misinformation.  So who can anyone believe?

    Unless we could see the video, verified by a reliable source, from the 5 p.m. entrance time until Joran left with his bag, it is difficult to know for certain that she didn't leave the room before he did.

    And at this point I ask, is this girl, Stephany, even dead?  

    Or, is this whole 'coincidence theory' a well devised plan?

    Does Peru have jurisdiction to question Van der Sloot about his actions in the Natalee Holloway case in Aruba as this seems to be their main focus?

    And how does the Flores family have the authority to pass along to the Holloway family the information obtained by the investigators from Joran regarding the possible location of Natalee's body in Aruba?  

    Dave Holloway said they now have a search team in place in Aruba and they have already been searching the two bird santuaries today.

    Seems the Flores and Holloway families and the investigators are all working together to quickly
    bring an end to both cases, and an end to Joran Van der Sloot, guilty or innocent, it doesn't matter, as long as he pays for what they think he did.

    Now this so-called confession under barbaric conditions - it is exactly what anyone would have expected.  

    This is not justice, it is a mockery of justice and human rights may be violated in the process.

    Parent

    That was something (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by waldenpond on Tue Jun 08, 2010 at 10:20:17 PM EST
    This:  And at this point I ask, is this girl, Stephany, even dead?

    Wow.... ha! ha!  Thanks for the best laugh of the day!

    and then this:  it is a mockery of justice

    Yup, I'll go with mockery.

    Parent

    I think Untold might be reading (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by ruffian on Tue Jun 08, 2010 at 10:31:31 PM EST
    the Stieg Larson novels, like I am. I don't think Stephany, may she RIP, is an unkillable super sleuth like Lizbeth Salendar.

    Parent
    Untold Story (none / 0) (#35)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 01:26:26 AM EST
    ignore the comments attacking you. I find your comments interesting.

    Walden and others, please don't attack other commenters.

    Parent

    Thank you (none / 0) (#90)
    by Untold Story on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 04:16:45 PM EST
    I am rather new at this - as if anyone couldn't tell -

    It is very interesting and great to be able to express different opinions, respectfully, to each other.

    Parent

    did some actual evidence (none / 0) (#29)
    by cpinva on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 12:36:51 AM EST
    come out recently, that actually ties mr. van der sloot to the young lady's death?

    In Peru, they've pretty much got him cold, and by confessing he apparently is automatically entitled to a less severe sentence if his confession checks out.

    if so, i haven't read about it anywhere. or are you just assuming the "confession" is it?

    Parent

    Let's see. Videotape shows him (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by oculus on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 12:43:44 AM EST
    going to his hotel room with the victim.  Videotape shows him leaving the hotel room but not her.  She is found dead in the hotel room after he left.  No intimation so far anyone was in that hotel room except the victim and him.  Analysis of substance(s) on clothing he had with him after he left has not been completed and/or revealed.  Plus his statements.  

    Parent
    No intimation she killed herself. (none / 0) (#32)
    by oculus on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 12:44:32 AM EST


    Parent
    Video Tapes (none / 0) (#41)
    by kasey9 on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 09:19:09 AM EST
    There are several hours of the video tapes that have not been released...or authenticated. Hard to determine if any one else entered the room without seeing the entire video...and wheres the video of the hotel staff entering the room and the time stamp that reflects that?

    Parent
    no hard evidence (none / 0) (#33)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 01:18:36 AM EST
    just sporadic videos. And a confession that followed an 18 hour drive from the Chile border to Lima in the company of cops, then paraded before the media in a bullet proof vest, then a full day of interrogation during which they had ample time to scare him into confessing.  Not to mention at the beginning of that long day they claimed he banged his head into the wall of the elevator. Where's the video of that to show he wasn't shoved?

    Parent
    Do you think the police are trying to frame him? (none / 0) (#36)
    by mexboy on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 03:45:21 AM EST
    We know they have video of them going into the room and him coming out of the room, which means there is a video camera by his room. Wouldn't the camera record everyone who went in and out of that room? We have no evidence the camera was turned off.

    If so, why would the police want to frame an innocent man and let a murderer go free?

    The police were heavily criticized for taking that 18 hour ride from Chile to Peru and they said they drove in order to bond with him and make him feel comfortable with them. That hardly sounds like barbaric treatment to me.

    Are they capable of dirty tactics if that didn't work? you bet, they are cops after all. But I still don't see why they would want to frame an innocent man, when they would have  video tape of anyone entering the room where the murder was committed.

    Parent

    Corruption, (none / 0) (#42)
    by kasey9 on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 09:25:37 AM EST
    Unfortunately, we have seen corruption, tampered evidence as well as police set ups in the past. We have seen Innocent people spend decades in jail, by the ways of our justice system....and later being exonerated...

    Its hard to tell by the bits and pieces of the video - they are showing the people what they want to show them so they can spot light Joran as being the last one in and out of the room.

    Where is the vidoe of the people knocing on the door, him leaving to get coffee & coming back...the hotel staff entering the room? It would not take much time to release those clips to the media and for all to see.

    Parent

    I still don't see the motive (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by mexboy on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 04:45:50 PM EST
    Unfortunately, we have seen corruption, tampered evidence as well as police set ups in the past.

    If the police have the video evidence of anyone else entering that room why wouldn't they pursue it?
    What's in it for them?
    Why would they target Joran?
    What do they get out of putting an innocent man in jail and letting a murderer go free?

    It doesn't make sense to me. Police do frame people, and innocent people are put in prison for murders they did not commit, but there is always a motive.

    What is the motive of the police here? The world's spotlight is on them. They must know the will be under intense scrutiny.  If evidence comes to light they are persecuting an innocent man and withholding exculpatory evidence, they will just look like inept fools. Not a good image for their country.


    Parent

    That is an excellent point. (none / 0) (#103)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 05:18:24 PM EST


    Parent
    You realize, of course (none / 0) (#43)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 09:41:54 AM EST
    That they aren't going to release all the evidence they have at this point, right?  So, we are seeing just a little bit of what's there.

    And of course, each side will put its spin on it -his mother and attorney having more freedom to speak to the case than the government, I imagine, since the government doesn't want to blow its case.

    Parent

    and where's the video (none / 0) (#50)
    by ding7777 on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 12:15:39 PM EST
    of Joran moving Stephany's car or dying his hair?

    Parent
    Am actually wondering (none / 0) (#107)
    by Untold Story on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 06:06:49 PM EST
    if Joran did dye his hair, or did he just shave it all off?

    Good question - with all the talk about the car being parked, etc., where are the keys?  Were they found with her wallet in the room?

    Parent

    Was banging his head in (none / 0) (#38)
    by ding7777 on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 07:18:18 AM EST
    the elevator a second blow?  I thought a bystander
    hit him in the hit as he entering the police building

    Parent
    yes (none / 0) (#45)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 11:01:30 AM EST
    a woman hit him in the head with her purse or something when they stopped 35  km outside of Lima to change cars. There's lots of articles on it.

    Parent
    24 hours before allegeded murder (none / 0) (#44)
    by Untold Story on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 10:13:19 AM EST
    Roberto Blake said he informed the cousin (head of the poker tables) of the casino's owner that Joran Van der Sloot, a 'murderer', was at the tables, twenty-four hours before the alleged murder ever took place.

    The Casino owner is a good friend of Stephany's father.

    According to the father, they were worried about Stephany because of the family fight on Friday and had not seen or heard from her from that time period.

    Since Stephany frequents the casino, leads a troubled life (according to her friend), and is often at odds with her family - isn't it reasonable to assume the father and the owner/friend of the casino had contact as to Stephanie's whereabouts?  And, perhaps shared the knowledge that a 'murderer' was sitting at the poker tables?  Perhaps then it was googled and a plan hatched . . .

    Was Stephany gambling addiction and lifestyle becoming an embarrassment for her family?  Perhaps the need to exile her to friends or family in another country seemed the only solution, who knows.

    Once law enforcement lies and loses credibility, much as in the OJ case, lines become blurred, in my opinion.  Juries tend to then question everything and would much rather let a guilty person go free than wrongly accuse an innocent person!

    The timing of all this, from the extortion plan set in place in late March, but never really carried through for a legal remedy, to the opening of the Natalee Rescue Center yesterday, and the second death on the fifth anniversary of Natalee going missing, is just too coincidental and convenient for my taste.

    The father is now insisting that many other young ladies died at the hands of Joran Van der Sloot.  Where is he getting his information?  Who are the other young women he is including and why is he so anxious to make Joran Van der Sloot into a serial killer?

    Police schematic drawing of how Stephany's body was found in Rm 309, as reported by Mark Fuhrman, shows a spread out body.  Yet, when one sees 206, it is apparent there isn't enough room between the bed and the wall for a human body to fit in any form let alone spread out.  One would assume Rm 309 to be the same dimensions as Rm 206.

    Why is this police drawing not of authentic dimensions to ensure accuracy?  It leaves, people like me, thinking, perhaps, this is all being made up in someone's head and not based on any truth at all.

    So, if you question the police drawing of the murder scene itself, why would you not question everything else?

    Presumption of Innocence? (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by robrecht on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 12:06:49 PM EST
    One would assume Rm 309 to be the same dimensions as Rm 206.

    Why would you assume this?

    Likewise, how does your idea that 'Stephany's gambling addiction and lifestyle becoming an embarrassment for her family, necessitating her exile to friends or family in another country' fit into your theory of this crime?

    Are you proposing that the victim or her family are guilty of something?

    Parent

    Assumption of innocence, perhaps (none / 0) (#52)
    by Untold Story on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 12:26:23 PM EST
    My assumption that 206 and 309 are the same dimensions is based on a television taping being transmitted worldwide.  For this reporting, the actual room 309 could not be used.  Therefore, I am assuming, the next best and closest to room 309 was used for reporting, 206.

    Also, since they have uneven numbers, one would (or, I would) assume they are on the same side of the building and from the exterior of the building the windows appear to be a uniform pattern, hence, comparable, if not close to exact dimensions.

    Stephany's friend indicated that she had a life contrary to what her family's wishes had been for her and that she had a gambling problem, both causing friction within the family life.  This friend also indicated it was not unusual for Stephanie to disappear for days.

    Her father stated, after a family fight on Friday, they had not heard from Stephany suggests to me that Stephany's friend's impressions may have merit.  Again, it is only an assumption.

    Parent

    Invalid assumption IMHO (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by robrecht on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 01:00:28 PM EST
    I saw something broadcast from Rm 206 or some such room that was not the crime scene and the 'journalist,' maybe it was Mark Furhman on Greta's show, specifically said that he did not know if the room had the same layout as the crime scene.

    Again, I do not understand the relevance of your idea that 'Stephany's gambling addiction and lifestyle were becoming an embarrassment for her family, necessitating her exile to friends or family in another country.' Are you proposing that the victim or her family are guilty of something?

    Parent

    Heres a good link &quotes frm Ex-girlfriend (none / 0) (#54)
    by kasey9 on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 12:33:11 PM EST
    Her ex-girlfriend Stephanie Jimenez told "Good Morning America".
    Jimenez said that Flores had recently been hitting the casinos especially hard, spending thousands of dollars at a time. She described Flores as a good girl whose intense insecurity shaped much of her behavior.

    Joran van der Sloot: Similarities Between Holloway Case and Peru Murder?
    Jimenez, now living in Miami, said that Flores would often flirt with men while gambling at the casino with her father, Peruvian businessman and racecar driver Ricardo Flores, even though she was out to the gay community.

    "She knew something bad was going to happen to her regarding gambling, regarding this environment," Jimenez said. "I mean, this guy appeared out of nowhere. They went to a hotel, and I can't believe this."

    Jimenez said it wasn't unusual for either Flores or her father to disappear for a few days at a time, but she's shocked her friend would go to a hotel with van der Sloot.

    http://www.whas11.com/home/Joran-Van-Der-Sloot-lawyer-questions-evidence-in-Peru-murder-95511634.htm l

    Parent

    Extreme views (5.00 / 2) (#56)
    by waldenpond on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 12:44:47 PM EST
    If I were a juror, I would find any of your ideas too extreme.

    You try to make out something nefarious of a family worried about a missing family member while the majority would think it odd a family didn't inquire.

    Liking to party and gamble do not make a person 'troubled'  (it makes you Kdog) nor it is unusual for a family to disagree about homosexuality.

    The father is probably referring to the Peru police reporting that someone from Columbia is coming to question Van Der Sloot about a woman missing from a casino there.  There is no official investigation and it sounds like nothing but when there is a person described as linked to two women missing from casinos, they are obligated to eliminate him.

    Why would you demand that officers be artists when there are multiple opportunites to gather info that could be used for evidence?  The room, rather than the preliminary drawing, is more relevant.  The room is not released.  There are photos.  There will be witnesses to describe the room dimension.

    and again.....  You can't get any more extreme than to keep denying there is a body.  You just can't.... and then to question the credibility of the police is not consistent.

    Parent

    Whose Radica? (none / 0) (#68)
    by Untold Story on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 01:57:38 PM EST
    Perhaps giving someone thirty or thirty-five years without a trial doesn't seem radical to you.  However, it does to me.

    Everyone needs to be given a chance to defend theselves.  In this case, so far, the misinformation, lies, and total disregard for any truth, is disturbing.

    If a crime has been committed the elementary item would be the body, the position of the body, etc.
    If even that cannot be displayed with accuracy then, perhaps, great mistrust for any reports as to guilt or innocent become cloudy at best.  

    And, as I said, one even begins to wonder if there was a body in the first place when it is forever changing - the cause of death to major details of how the body was clothed or positioned.  How can anyone be sure of the timing of the alleged murder either?  

    Put that together with the fact that twenty-four hours before this alleged murder took place, it was common knowledge by the owner of the casino and his family working there, that a 'murderer' was at their poker tables.  Why would they not have called police at that juncture if there was such a concern as this Roberto Blake seems to reveal in his interview?

    Personally, I find the people hammering for blood without any concrete evidence the radical people.  If I were on a jury and this is what was presented to me, I would always vote not guilty rather convict someone of a crime based on emotions rather than hard facts.

    These people wrongly accused never get their lives back, and the prosecution in each and every case seem to find it impossible to reverse any decision made earlier.  It is as if Lady Justice's blindfold fell off completely in so many of these case now becoming evident by the Innocence Project.  

    Sorry, to get off topic.  However, claiming someone guilty without proper proof can never be undone.

    Parent

    No trial??? (5.00 / 2) (#82)
    by waldenpond on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 02:46:10 PM EST
    What?

    In this case, so far, the misinformation, lies, and total disregard for any truth, is disturbing.

    Yes. Absolutely.  You hit the nail on the head.  I couldn't think of the word... I had 'odd' 'cringe' 'ugh'  but yes, denying that Stephanie is dead is deeply, deeply disturbing.

    and yes, I agree that some are demonstrating a disregard for some truths... you:30-35 years with no trial... truth: he will have a trial if he wants one.  truth: 6-10 years which is 12-20 years cut in half for good time(also, please note, alcohol/drug use a mitigating factor in Peru)

    However, claiming someone guilty without proper proof can never be undone.  Then why do you keep attacking the family and others?  To apply your own standards to you, stating that someone called Van Der Sloot a murderer can as easily be considered a lie as you have no video tape 'proof'.  Stating that Stephanie has run away, aren't you accusing others of crimes with no 'proof'

    BTW, no one has called anyone 'guilty' of anything.  One person has the opinion that there is enough data so far that they would be able to prosecute him.  I happen to think that they currently have enough info to charge him.

    Parent

    Wise One (none / 0) (#85)
    by Untold Story on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 03:42:53 PM EST

    May I call you that :)  Then why do they not include a video of Van der Sloot leaving and returning with the two cups of coffee?

    I would be very interested in what shirt he would be wearing?  The same shirt as a few hours before, or, the new shirt that we see him leave in?

    Also, love to see how he manages that heavy door with two cups of coffee and bread?  Does Stephany answer the door and help him?

    Please, I am not accusing the family members.  If you review my messages you will see that I have simply asked questions - and have never made statements about them.

    Thanks

    Parent

    Because (none / 0) (#86)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 03:46:29 PM EST
    They don't release all their evidence to the public, especially if it needs to be confirmed?

    Parent
    Confirmed? (none / 0) (#88)
    by Untold Story on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 04:12:15 PM EST
    If you have a video tape at 5:30 am and then one at 8:(whatever) am - aren't they 'confirmed'?  What prevents the video between these two absolute proof selections from being released or confirmed?

    Because of the misrepresentations already spun out to the press and media, one has to question why such selections are made, while others, that seem to be more proof of what was going on, are not?

    If Stephany was looking at the laptop, then, obviously she would have had time to turn it off before opening the door - plus the attire Joran had on.  In my opinion, these points are critical at a time like this.

    Parent

    Do you not understand (none / 0) (#89)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 04:16:37 PM EST
    How cases are developed?  The Lima police will do things (as will the defense, if there is a trial) like check the validity of the timestamps on the tapes, make sure they weren't doctored, etc.

    Police never publicly release all the evidence in a case like this.  All that leads to is more disinformation.  Why would you expect them to show all the evidence they have before any court proceedings take place?

    Parent

    Yeah but... (none / 0) (#91)
    by ks on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 04:28:19 PM EST
    Funny how they manage to release the stuff that helps their case.  I'm sure that's just the "confirmed" info.  Heh.

    Parent
    It's no different (none / 0) (#92)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 04:30:17 PM EST
    Than saying his confession was forced through "barbaric" treatment.

    Parent
    Actually (none / 0) (#96)
    by ks on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 04:43:34 PM EST
    It's quite a bit different.  One is supposed evidence that may or will be used in a trial while the other is simply a family/attorney statement and will have no bearing.  

    Parent
    No (none / 0) (#98)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 04:52:00 PM EST
    If there's a trial, you can be darn sure (based on the rules of evidence in Peru) that his attorney will introduce any evidence of "barbaric" treatment and his "coerced" confession.

    Parent
    Nice dodge (none / 0) (#104)
    by ks on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 05:25:49 PM EST
    The authorities have actually released evidence while the lawyer has just made a statement.

    Parent
    Because this is Peru (none / 0) (#94)
    by Untold Story on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 04:38:08 PM EST
    and they seem to want to do what Aruba was unable to do.  They have stated they were releasing video evidence that proves their case of guilt against Van der Sloot.  They produced these videos, I believe, while he was still in Chile.

    In the fine print somewhere, I believe also Chile expelled him because he was wanted for a theft charge in Peru.  What happened to the theft charge?

    I am simply asking for the video that, for me, is the meat of the sandwich.  The video showing the comings and goings of Van der Sloot's room during those crucial hours.

    Did Joran Van der Sloot ever leave for coffee?  The coffee shop where he is supposed to have gotten it, at something past eight o'clock, does  not serve coffee until 9 am!  Do they have carry out cups, and, if so, where did he get the coffee?  

    The conflicting statements, mistruths, misrepresentations, and lies make it frustrating to understand how this man can be considered guilty by so many.

    Parent

    He hasn't been charged with anything yet (none / 0) (#95)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 04:42:29 PM EST
    That's why the theft charge "disappeared" - nothing has happened yet.

    And the conflicting statements are coming from people in and around the case, each who have a small piece of the puzzle.

    Your questions should be answered in time - be patient, young Jedi warrior!

    Parent

    Steady and slow wins the race :) (none / 0) (#100)
    by Untold Story on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 05:02:04 PM EST


    Parent
    May never be seen (none / 0) (#108)
    by waldenpond on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 06:39:32 PM EST
    If Van Der Sloot does the walk through, the police investigation finds his statements match the info that would otherwise be presented as evidence and he chooses to plead guilty, the videos may never be seen.

    You consider things lies but I wonder if you're just getting your info from unverified sources.  He went to the convenience store/market not the coffee shop.  The market doesn't have cameras.

    I watch it on the news but then do searches to see if I can duplicate the info.

    Now, you'll have to excuse me... I am going to try and watch someone who makes Nancy Grace seem almost normal and disregard everything she says and see if they have an actual reporter on.

    Parent

    There may be other people (none / 0) (#102)
    by ding7777 on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 05:10:56 PM EST
    in the video who do not want their identities shown

    Parent
    Who (none / 0) (#105)
    by Untold Story on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 05:29:35 PM EST
    like the murderer?

    (Sorry, just had to - but I do get your point.)

    Parent

    Here's a question (none / 0) (#106)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 05:35:51 PM EST
    Why are you so sure he's innocent and is being framed?

    Parent
    link to 'murderer' quote (none / 0) (#87)
    by Untold Story on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 04:07:43 PM EST
    Roberto Blade indicated on the following tape that he knew Joran Van der Sloot as a murderer.

    I have never stated that Stephany ran away - that must have been someone else.

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,594143,00.html

    Parent

    Wait a minute (none / 0) (#70)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 02:08:27 PM EST
    You are saying he's not going to have a trial and won't be able to defend himself.  If he pleads, then he has given up that right to have a trial, so that isn't the government of Peru's problem. If he decides to go forward, he has legal representation, and then it will be up to the judicial system of Peru.

    And you still question whether or not there was a body???

    Parent

    His pleading (none / 0) (#75)
    by Untold Story on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 02:14:43 PM EST
    If he is pleading under barbaric conditions?

    There doesn't seem to be any answers to the questions I have as to why everyone pretty much has jumped on the bandwagon of guilt?  What evidence do you have for any of this, except to see Van der Sloot and Stephanie enter the room, and then Van der Sloot exit the room.  Although we are now supposed to believe it was not the first time he exited the room????

    Don't you have questions?

    Parent

    Yes (none / 0) (#78)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 02:18:17 PM EST
    But since I am not in charge of the investigation, nor Joran's attorney, we can only go by what is being reported and by his history.

    But I don't doubt there was a body.  

    Parent

    Rely on what's being reported? (none / 0) (#81)
    by Untold Story on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 02:43:08 PM EST
    Don't you find what's being reported a unrealiable source of factual information filled with emotion and speculation only?

    Parent
    Why Not! It has become a free for all (none / 0) (#71)
    by Untold Story on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 02:09:21 PM EST
    Columbia is getting into the act also?  Heavens.
    When was Van der Sloot in Columbia?  Was that on his way to Peru this May?

    Perhaps we should pin the Hofer murder on him also, darn, that happened before Van der Sloot was even born - can't do that one.

    Parent

    Were you not aware he went to Columbia first? (none / 0) (#73)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 02:13:06 PM EST
    That was reported the very first day this whole shebang started...

    Parent
    Not aware (none / 0) (#80)
    by Untold Story on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 02:31:40 PM EST
    Sorry, my thought was he merely passed through enroute to Peru - as in a stopover type thing.  Must look that up.  Do you know where he stayed and how long he was there?  Did he play poker while there?  When did these girls or girl go missing?

    Parent
    google is your friend. (none / 0) (#84)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 03:03:21 PM EST


    Parent
    Even Google is confused! (none / 0) (#99)
    by Untold Story on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 04:56:37 PM EST
    Columbia thinks he entered May 10th - don't have a date of him leaving, although apparently there are many borders he could have crossed without identification!

    Columbia also state he was in their country, at two different hotels (no names/no dates) and at the casinos (again no names/no dates) from where these two girls have gone missing (no names/no dates).  

    (No wonder he didn't worry too much about collecting his passport as he seems to have gotten in and out of Columbia without any and into Chile without any.)

    Aruba have him, and notice given to the FBI, leaving Aruba for Peru on May 13th.

    He arrived in Lima on the 14th.

    The girls in Columbia seemed to have gone missing (without names or date of missing) from May 6th thru the 14th.

    Parent

    Yes, I entered Columbia, back in the day, (none / 0) (#101)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 05:08:02 PM EST
    by bus from Venezuela, and (unbeknownst to me) I did not cross the border correctly and Columbia had no idea I was in their country...until weeks later when I left Columbia by plane and the officials at the airport wanted to know why I had no entry stamp in my passport.

    I really have not been following the Columbia story at all, I'm just aware that he went there first before Peru...

    Parent

    No, one would assume (none / 0) (#49)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 12:14:37 PM EST
    209 (and 109) to be the same dimensions as 309.

    Although I would not at all be surprised at inaccurate police drawings, as I have personally experienced that same exact thing...

    Parent

    Ground/first/top floors (none / 0) (#55)
    by Untold Story on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 12:42:02 PM EST
    109 may well differ than the floors above. . . what I have found is many times offices, for example, can be included on the bottom or lowest floor. The same goes for top floors, in my opinion.

    Again, if CNN HLN was airing a special report, somehow in absence of R309, I would think the closest possible to that room would be substituted.

    We all differ in opinions, which is what makes life interesting.

    Parent

    agree on 109, not on 206. (none / 0) (#59)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 01:01:15 PM EST
    Was looking at apartments in a retirement community just yesterday for my dad and saw this exact thing. 209 & 309 I would assume to be dimensionally identical. 206 & 309 certainly could be identical, but I would not automatically assume it to be so.

    Parent
    Usually (none / 0) (#65)
    by Untold Story on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 01:29:32 PM EST
    The first number in a condo building is the floor number, and the next number the configuration of the floor plan, i.e., one bedrooms indicated by a 2, two bedrooms by a four or three - in accordance with their north to west locations. There are different floor plans which, generally speaking, are stacked.

    What I find in hotel buildings, rooms are usually similar dimensions with either a right or left entry, thereby placing bathrooms wall to wall for economic reasons.

    I did note in the Mark Fuhrman report, the door opened to the left, the same as we saw Van der Sloot open the door in and to the left in the video.

     

    Parent

    I'm not sure what your point is (none / 0) (#69)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 02:00:09 PM EST
    but I would assume 309 is stacked on top of 209, just like 301 is stacked on top of 201, and 302 is stacked on top of 202, and 303 is stacked on top of 203, and so on, etc., and that the stacked rooms are dimensionally identical.

    Again, 206 certainly could be dimensionally identical 309, but I would not automatically assume that to be the case.

    Parent

    A condo or retirement apt for your father (none / 0) (#79)
    by Untold Story on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 02:27:34 PM EST
    My point is - a condo and, perhaps, a retirement apartment, differs from a hotel in that a 6 and a 9 could not be assumed to be the same as I understood you to be suggesting they were not in the building you just previewed for your father.

    A condo 6 could well indicate a two bedroom; i.e., 206.  However, a 309 in a condo building could indicate a four bedroom, and it is on the third floor.  The dimensions would not be similar.  

    However, in a hotel, my assumption is they are very similar and close to the same dimensions, except for the left or right entrance.

    Parent

    You understood incorrectly. (none / 0) (#83)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 03:02:50 PM EST
    The room numbers in the retirement apartment community we toured are assigned sequentially as you walk down the hall.

    The numbers have no relationship to the dimensions/classifications of the rooms, ie, to relationship to whether the rooms are studios, 1BR or 2BR.

    This is essentially the same way hotel and motel room numbers are assigned, ie, sequentially.

    Additionally, as was pointed out to us yesterday, not all of the rooms with the same  classification, ie, "studio" or "1BR" are dimensionally identical because of the shape of the building. iow, as the building is not perfectly square or rectangular, or whatever, the rooms inside have some variation.

    iow, not only are the rooms not numbered with any relation to the the room's classification but, also, rooms with the same classification are not always dimensionally identical.

    Again, I would expect 209 to be dimensionally identical to 309, because 309 is stacked on top of 209, and that 206 could be dimensionally identical to 309 - but I would not automatically assume that to be the case...

    Parent

    More (none / 0) (#46)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 11:48:46 AM EST
    Greta was on "Good Morning America" today and said Joran is on tape, counting the money believed to have financed his trip to Peru - money (more than likely) extorted from the Holloway family.

    Counting money that financed his trip to Peru (none / 0) (#47)
    by Untold Story on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 12:02:16 PM EST
    Then why wasn't he arrested at that time, before the extortion money turned into alleged blood money?

    Parent
    Ask Interpol and the FBI (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 12:17:49 PM EST


    Parent
    Questioning (none / 0) (#53)
    by Untold Story on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 12:32:24 PM EST
    May I suggest using the same 'barbaric' elements of questioning used on Van der Sloot :(

    Parent
    Joran's own attorney (none / 0) (#60)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 01:08:27 PM EST
    Quoted him as saying his interrogators were being "rude".  How that translates to "barbaric" is not clear.

    Parent
    rude/barbaric (none / 0) (#66)
    by Untold Story on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 01:37:23 PM EST
    The mother who apparently is the one that spoke directly to her son, stated it was barbaric.  The lawyer who spoke to the mother and then repeated it, labeled it as rude.

    Parent
    It could be (none / 0) (#67)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 01:52:55 PM EST
    just how they talk - like many Europeans who think Americans' manners are "barbaric".

    Of course, it's a kind of thing a mother would say. I would be surprised if she didn't. I would hope my mother would say the same thing if I was in that situation.

    Parent

    the "mother" (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by diogenes on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 06:58:48 PM EST
    Perhaps if the mother spent more time raising him to not act like a narcissistic, spoiled barbarian for all these years then he wouldn't be in such a mess.

    Parent
    That was US taxpayer money... (none / 0) (#57)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 12:57:14 PM EST
    that the FBI had sent to Sloot, wasn't it?  It was make-believe that the money came from the Holloways...it was a set-up.

    And it appears that was the money Sloot used to finance his trip to Peru.  Which leads to me to ask, if Peru is able to prove the murder charges and Sloot is convicted, can the Peruvian authorities go after the FBI for funding the crime?

    Parent

    More likely question: may Flores' (none / 0) (#111)
    by oculus on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 11:40:52 PM EST
    survivors sue the F.B.I. agents who provided the money which enabled him to go to Peru?  Well-you can sue for anything but that seems like a loser to me.

    Parent
    the money came from the fbi sting (none / 0) (#72)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 02:12:35 PM EST


    Parent
    no the Peru murder (none / 0) (#74)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 02:14:04 PM EST
    has no effect on the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. That Joran committed the Peru murder (if he is telling the truth that he did) doesn't change the lack of evidence in the Aruba case.

    "lack of evidence" (none / 0) (#110)
    by diogenes on Wed Jun 09, 2010 at 07:04:15 PM EST
    If Joran did commit the Peru murder, then although there is still a "lack of evidence" in the Holloway case, the likelihood that Joran killed Holloway (proof or not) becomes extremely high.  
    There is a difference between actual truth and legal truth.

    Parent
    Joran Van der Sloot's Mother Heading to Peru, Attorney Claims Confession Coerced | 107 comments (107 topical)

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