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Sunday Morning Open Thread

World Cup - Ghana v. Serbia. Serbia should win.

Slovenia, the USA's next opponent, beat Algeria 1-0.

Open Thread.

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    Couple WC questions: (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 11:39:03 AM EST
    1. Did England really think they had a shot at winning the tournament?

    2. Is there anything more annoying than those friggin' horns?


    Read an article this AM on BBC (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by ruffian on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 01:20:19 PM EST
    That said South Africa was thinking of banning or limiting the horns. Some of the teams are complaining about noise keeping them from hearing one another. Broadcasters are complaining also.

    Besides, the organizers would rather have the traditional singing instead.

    Parent

    I was wondering how much damage (none / 0) (#31)
    by nycstray on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 01:26:41 PM EST
    it was doing to people's ears! No way could I handle them live . . .

    Parent
    I wouldn't be surprised (none / 0) (#33)
    by Jen M on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 01:39:46 PM EST
    If they do ban them sometime before the final rounds


    Parent
    well (none / 0) (#27)
    by Jen M on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 12:51:07 PM EST
    1. Hope springs eternal
    2. I am afraid to ask


    Parent
    Wow Slovenia and Ghana (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 11:49:03 AM EST
    I do love the World Cup.  Bring your best game.  Play the world.

    A few days ago (5.00 / 2) (#64)
    by NYShooter on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 04:22:17 PM EST
    We had a discussion (or tried to, anyway) about Ron Paul's botched attempt to explain his position Re: the Voting Right's Act. That proved impossible as the "discussion" immediately descended into a food fight: personal attacks, delusional motives, and all such nonsense.

    A couple of days later I wrote that I've pretty much quit posting as trying to discuss controversial, or unpopulal, topics in a calm, honest, and rational manner also proved impossible. My point was immediately confirmed as I was attacked for all sorts of nefarious motives, except, of course, the subject I was talking about. In trying to present an intellectual, albeit hypothetical, explanation of Paul's position i.e. private vs. public discrimination, the folly of such an attempt was also immediately confirmed.

    So, in a long-winded, roundabout way, my question is: if Paul's position was "absolutely odious, disgusting, and inhuman, even though he was talking about Private (not Public) actions, why the instant support of Pay Pal's position? Aren't they quite similar?

    I really would like have it explained to me; and no, I'm not jimakaPPJ`s barrister.

    exactly (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by The Addams Family on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 04:49:57 PM EST
    & i take it that the serial threadjackers are also down with Jerry Falwell's campaign against Amazon over selling books of which Falwell does not approve, & down with Amazon itself & its selective exclusion of so-called adult titles from book searches, & down with Augusta National Golf Club's sexist membership policies

    the "discussion" immediately descended into a food fight: personal attacks, delusional motives, and all such nonsense

    lately more the norm around here than not

    Parent

    Yes, actually (none / 0) (#70)
    by gyrfalcon on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 05:08:20 PM EST
    depending on what you mean by that cute phrase "down with."

    Falwell is perfectly entitled (or was) to launch a boycott of Amazon, or Disney, or Joe's Lunch Counter.  Just as back in the '60s and '70s, some of us were perfectly entitled to boycott table grapes and Gallo wines.  Or other folks are now boycotting Arizona (I would, but I never had any plans to go there anyway).

    I don't like Falwell's aims, of course, but that's a different subject.

    Parent

    agree with you (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by The Addams Family on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 05:18:11 PM EST
    & was not numbering you among the serial threadjackers

    just reflecting on how some of them would see & frame those actions

    Parent

    There's a VERY big difference (5.00 / 2) (#69)
    by gyrfalcon on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 05:04:34 PM EST
    between refusing to do business with someone because of what they say or do and refusing to do business with someone because of who they are-- ie, the color of their skin.

    As a shop owner, for instance, you are perfectly entitled to throw someone out of your store who is swearing a blue streak, for instance, but you may not throw someone out of your store for being African-American.

    Private clubs that are not open to the broad public may still, of course, discriminate freely on the basis of sex or race of hair color, and some still do.  But not a public business.

    Parent

    Jinx (none / 0) (#72)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 05:09:27 PM EST
    but is the line always clear (none / 0) (#73)
    by The Addams Family on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 05:14:50 PM EST
    between "what they say or do" and "who they are"?

    not always such a "VERY big difference" imo

    policies and decisions about what is "appropriate" can be and are selectively enforced

    Parent

    No, the line isn't (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 04:12:49 PM EST
    always clear, which is why this stuff gets litigated periodically.  But the law is clear that you may not throw someone out of your store because they're black or female or handicapped, which are specifically protected classes.  You may say you threw them out because they were rowdy, even though it was just because they were the wrong skin color, but that's a different matter.  Sorting out the truth of that is what lawsuits are for. :-)

    Parent
    I would have spent the rest of the game (none / 0) (#76)
    by nycstray on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 05:25:37 PM EST
    complaining about other people kissing. I'm a tad tired of all things turning into "family entertainment" for the most uptight. Dawg forbid you get a seat at the ball game next to the family sections. . . . . much less in one!

    Parent
    seriously (none / 0) (#77)
    by The Addams Family on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 05:36:06 PM EST
    complaints about who's kissing who kind of beg the question of where all those families came from . . .

    Parent
    What does the Votings Rights Act (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 05:09:03 PM EST
    have to do with private v. public?

    I have no idea about your squabble but I feel confident that you are referring to the Civil Rights Act.

    Without expressing an opinion on the PayPal issue (I am skeptical that Atlas Shrugged is telling us what the real story is), the issue of discrimination on the basis of race, sex or other suspect classification is not the issue, even giving Atlas Shrugged credibility (which, as I said, I don't.)

    Is it an issue of free speech? Well you must know the First Amendment does not apply to private actors.

    Atlas Shrugged can ban me as a commenter (or not ban someone I consider offensive.) Pay Pal can choose to associate with me or not (or associate with someone I consider offensive.)

    If Paul's logic is something like that you are describing, I see serious flaws in his approach.

    Parent

    Can Pay Pal (none / 0) (#82)
    by NYShooter on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 08:28:03 PM EST
    associate, or not, with you due to your race?

    Parent
    Not relevant (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by waldenpond on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 08:42:16 PM EST
    You are trying to connect something that has no connection.  None.

    Paypal is a business and seeks profit.  They are not a right-wing association seeking to repeal civil rights legislation.

    You are asking them to consider an irrational business decision. If they block black bloggers because of ideology, they would lose a greater number of white bloggers.


    Parent

    They can not (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 09:30:50 PM EST
    deny you service because of your race.

    The CAN deny you service because of your expressions.

    I do not understand what you find so hard about this point.

    Parent

    If (none / 0) (#88)
    by NYShooter on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 09:44:15 PM EST
    we all knew the answers to everything there wouldn't be any need for questions.

    Parent
    from a legal pov (none / 0) (#90)
    by ZtoA on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 12:17:17 AM EST
    They can not deny you service because of your race.

    The CAN deny you service because of your expressions.

    this might work. But are societal/legal definitions of "race" and "expression" so clearly defined? What about religion? Is is racial or "expression"? Can one deny business services for wearing a burka for instance?

    Parent

    The law defines protected classes (none / 0) (#91)
    by caseyOR on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 12:53:39 AM EST
    Federal and state laws are quite clear about who cannot be discriminated against and in what circumstances. In most cases one cannot discriminate against another person based race, religion, sex, ethnic origin, disability and sometimes sexual orientation.

    Areas where such discrimination is forbidden include employment, housing and public accomodations.

    Parent

    Not comparable (none / 0) (#74)
    by waldenpond on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 05:15:23 PM EST
    Not comparable to me.  Paypal is not encroaching others freedom.  Paypal's decision is a business decision, maximize profit.  If it keeps Atlas and loses 1000 other customers... bad business decision.   Prohibiting blacks from entering your business is a ideological decision that has social consequences beyond the financial.  To exclude customers is a bad business decision.  There are also ramifications beyond the individual having the right to practice bigotry... having to have infrastructure for whites and blacks is inefficient and the rest of us should not have to bear the financial burden of someone's personal bigotry.

    Taken to extremes..... Atlas has alternatives to receiving payment..... checks, money order, etc.  Prohibiting blacks... there were no places for blacks to use the restroom or eat when traveling in certain areas.

    Parent

    World Cup of Rugby (none / 0) (#1)
    by Saul on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 09:07:48 AM EST
    I had no idea that there was a world cup of Rugby until I saw Invictus last night.  

    This was a great movie.  Mandela is a very special person.  Up there with Mother Teresa.  How much he suffered and how nonbitter he was after his release and how he wanted to rid apartheid and forgive his trespassers  after he became president.

    Not in the same league as MT (none / 0) (#19)
    by Erehwon on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 12:29:00 PM EST
    Mandela is indeed a special person, but way above the league of the likes of MT. While I may not agree with every word here, Hitchens captures the true MT quite well: The fanatic, fraudulent Mother Teresa. Mandela is most definitely infinitely superior!

    Parent
    Paul Theroux lights into MT (none / 0) (#20)
    by oculus on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 12:31:13 PM EST
    in his latest novel, "The Dead Hand."

    Parent
    Paypal has threatened (none / 0) (#2)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 10:23:59 AM EST
    Atlas Shrugged with shutting down its account by 6/17 unless Atlas proves they are not a "hate" site.

    Now AS is a far Right site. And I do not agree with much of what it posts nor do I always believe what it posts.

    But laying aside the fact that Ebay, who owns Paypal, allows members to sell items that many would call hate speech (see link), do we want a "bank," and that is exactly what Paypal is, to get into the content censorship business?

    If Paypal thinks that a transaction is illegal or if a customer is involved in criminal activity it should immediately block the transaction and notify the proper law enforcement agency.

    It should not try to tell bloggers what they can and cannot write by shutting down their sources of revenue.

    This is the classic "When they came for...... I did nothing..." situation. Anyone who calls themselves a liberal or who cares about the freedom of the internet should be outraged.

    Link


    Free markets baby! (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by waldenpond on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 11:30:21 AM EST
    What?  You want the Dems to step up and propose legislation to somehow say paypal is suppressing 'free speech'?  Atlas needs to find other methods of getting paid that's all.  They can also get outside jobs and pay for the site themselves.

    This is the free market at work.  It's a particularly beautiful thing when it makes Republicans complain.

    Parent

    No, I want Paypal to quit (none / 0) (#25)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 12:43:28 PM EST
    doing things to suppress the free market of ideas.

    BTW - What did you think of the Ebay item for sale? No problem with that?

    I mean you being against anything anyone calls hate speech that must make your blood boil.

    No? Yes?

    Parent

    WTF? (none / 0) (#30)
    by squeaky on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 01:25:31 PM EST
    How does pay pal's dissociation with a site they feel is a hate site, suppress the" free market of ideas"? That is looney even by your standards.

    If you are really worried send Atlas Shrugged a check, and never do business with pay pal.

    Parent

    So what you're saying (none / 0) (#32)
    by nycstray on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 01:30:26 PM EST
    is everyone should be forced to do business with everyone, no matter how objectionable we find them? Should a model who is against fur be forced to model fur?

    Parent
    No. That is not what I am saying (none / 0) (#38)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 01:47:08 PM EST
    I am saying that Paypal's business is handling money for other people.

    Their rules and regulations should be reasonable and not arbitrary. They should not be allowed to quit doing business with anyone solely because someone disagrees with the content of Paypal's customer.

    I do not make the argument that Paypal has violated any laws, just that we, as people, should not allow a commercial company, especially one that has the huge market share that Paypal has. They have become defacto government censors.

    Parent

    Really? (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by Yman on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 02:10:15 PM EST
    They should not be allowed to quit doing business with anyone solely because someone disagrees with the content of Paypal's customer.

    Since when?  Private businesses make these decisions every day all over the country.  NBC, CBS and ABC aren't required to run ads from the KKK or ads from "Rev." Phelps.  I'm not required to take clients who's positions I find offensive.  If Paypal isn't violating a law, you're just angry because you disagree with their decision.

    That's a real shame.

    Parent

    As a private business (none / 0) (#42)
    by nycstray on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 01:53:58 PM EST
    I choose who I do business with. Does that make me a "defacto government censor"? Or does it only apply when you hit a certain market share?

    Parent
    Is PayPal A Monopoly? (none / 0) (#51)
    by squeaky on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 02:25:20 PM EST
    Sounds like this is a great opportunity for the tea party to set up a Halwa type system. Or a great opportunity for another company to move in and snatch away all of PayPal's customers.

    There are many businesses, organizations, unions, pension funds who use their influence to get their business associates to follow their guidelines. For instance McDonalds pressured slaughterhouses to adopt humane methods and worker safety measures by adopting a checklist of measures companies had to adhere to, in order to become their supplier  

    CALPERS, one of the largest pension funds in CA, will not invest any money in corporation stocks that do not meet their list of environmental and political qualifications.

    This move by pay pal is a business decision, and it does give Atlas Shrugged a chance to stop the hate. Many advertisers have ceased advertising during Beck's show because they have determined that he runs a show that promotes hate.

    So please stop with the censorship BS. This is a business decision. Atlas Shrugged is not censored by anyone.


    Parent

    Free Markets Baby! (none / 0) (#43)
    by waldenpond on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 01:55:47 PM EST
    I looooove YOU railing against free markets.  It isn't Paypal's job to push your ideology of what the 'market of ideas' consists of.  How absurd.  

    It exists to make a profit only.  If it will lose other customers by keeping nutjobs like Atlas, I demand Paypal do it's job of creating maximum returns for it's investors and kick the lying haters to the curb.

    Sme goes for Ebay.  Maximum profit only.

    When did I say I was against hate speech?  No one here ever said your site shouldn't exist.  I visited your site once and never would again.  I turn the page, change the channel and don't click.  I free up time ignoring the haters and the hate sites.....

    and smile when 'free marketers' get kicked in the teeth by the free market.

    Parent

    Sorry, not outraged. (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by Joan in VA on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 11:37:07 AM EST
    I think both Paypal and eBay have language in their user agreements that allow them to judge content. eBay will remove questionable items if they see them or get complaints. Paypal probably got complaints about AS or they wouldn't have known the site was objectionable. Geller will just have to use another payment processor or accept cash/checks. Maybe a nuisance for her but Paypal is not denying her revenue, just their processing service. They have the right not to have their company associated with hate speech as much as she has the right to publish it.

    If she was refused internet access altogether due to content, that would be an internet freedom issue.

    Parent

    May a brick and mortar bank refuse (none / 0) (#16)
    by oculus on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 11:40:16 AM EST
    to open an account for, say, a minority owned business?

    Parent
    Perhaps you have never heard of (none / 0) (#23)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 12:35:40 PM EST
    the Community Reinvestment Act.

    It's only been around 35 years or so.

    Parent

    Ah the old (none / 0) (#24)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 12:39:15 PM EST
    I have rules and regulations therefore I'm legal defense...

    Jim Crow had "Whites Only" signs.

    Think that was okay?

    No, and neither did I but I guess we have came to a parting of the ways.

    Parent

    Jim Crow laws?!? (none / 0) (#35)
    by Yman on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 01:43:12 PM EST
    These laws were promulgated and enforced by government agencies, not private businesses, like Paypal.  Beyond that, these laws were held to be in violation of the 14th Amendment, the Commerce Clause, the CRA of 1964 and the VRA of 1965, among others.

    What laws are being violated by Paypal?

    Parent

    This is a slippery slope. (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by EL seattle on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 01:40:22 PM EST
    Does PayPal enforce this policy in the same way for all businesses?  For instance, I'd imagine that a pro-Palestine company might offer items for sale that some folks would consider to be "promoting hate" towards Jewish people.  

    Does PayPal carefully judge "how much is too much" in every situation where someone has objected to a merchant's presence withing the PayPal universe?  Or is it easy enough for an individual concerned citizen (or troll) set the wheels of exclusion turning, and the organized members of a church organization or other moral enforcement agency could effectively deny a business from using online payment system that is essentially the industry standard?

    I thik that this a is serious issue.  It's a knife that can cut deeply to many, many ways.    

    Parent

    It may have more to do (none / 0) (#36)
    by Jen M on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 01:46:23 PM EST
    with the number of complaints they get

    Parent
    So a mosque or church or moose lodge (none / 0) (#46)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 01:58:17 PM EST
    could zap a business......

    Paypal/Ebay need to get out of the content business. If they thing the customer is engaged in an illegal act they should shut down the transaction and notify law enforcement.

    Parent

    Exactly. But... (none / 0) (#48)
    by EL seattle on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 02:08:42 PM EST
    That would mean that an organization that used a strategy like THIS (LINK: Activist organization Responsible for 99% of FCC Complaints) could make it very difficult for businesses that want to sell controversial material on the internet using the dominant transaction method.

    Parent
    Is Paypal subject to oversight (none / 0) (#37)
    by oculus on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 01:46:42 PM EST
    by any government entity?

    Parent
    I would hope (none / 0) (#39)
    by Jen M on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 01:48:59 PM EST
    but somehow I doubt it.

    Parent
    Not considered a "bank" by U.S. (none / 0) (#44)
    by oculus on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 01:55:56 PM EST
    More like Western Union.  "Bank status" section of Wiki link deals with regulation:  PayPal per Wiki

    Parent
    You can fund an account (none / 0) (#47)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 02:01:29 PM EST
    with a deposit, leave the funds there and have Paypal pay another party.... That may not be a bank but it it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, swims like a duck.... it's a duck.

    Parent
    Paypal is owned by Ebay (none / 0) (#40)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 01:51:18 PM EST
    and if you will follow the link in my original comment you will find an article that clearly demonstrates that they do not hold all customers to the same standard.

    And thank you for seeing and understanding my point.

    Parent

    Standard (none / 0) (#61)
    by squeaky on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 03:51:41 PM EST
    As if you have principals that would have you hold everyone to the same standard.... lol

    Oh great protector of ultra right wingers....  the rest, well let em drown...  

    Parent

    It's a knife that's already cutting (none / 0) (#60)
    by jondee on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 03:47:14 PM EST
    and been cutting for quite a while..

    Try finding a left-leaning show in the AM talk radio galaxy..Talk about the proverbial needle in a hay stack..

    Parent

    Censorship? (none / 0) (#4)
    by squeaky on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 10:52:49 AM EST
    Hey my bank turns down accounts all the time, that is not censorship, that is a business decision. But if you are going to insist that this is censorship, please explain.

    It should not try to tell bloggers what they can and cannot write by shutting down their sources of revenue.

    Shutting down their source of revenue? How are they doing that? Maybe Atlas Shrugged should look into the Halawa money exchange sysytem. The tea parties could make it happen.

    Parent

    I figured you would (none / 0) (#6)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 11:12:50 AM EST
    jump up to defend the removal.

    And yes, I understand the concept of commercial vs political free speech.

    But the point is this. If I only want free speech for people I agree with, what happens when those who disagree with me are in control?

    Parent

    Huh? (none / 0) (#8)
    by squeaky on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 11:16:13 AM EST
    You get to choose who you do business with. So does paypal.

    Paypal rejects accounts all the time. Besides, according to your comment, paypal has offered to continue doing business with Atlas Shrugged, if it can refute the claim that it is a hate site.

    But I bet you were against the boycott of SA apartheid too. So much for your social liberal creds... lol

    Parent

    Quit dodging (none / 0) (#10)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 11:27:09 AM EST
    the events in SA and the boycott have nothing to do with this.

    And the issue is that AS should not have to prove anything. That is the very essence of censorship, prior control of what is written, spoken or displayed.

    I repeat. Paypal should stop all transactions it thinks are illegal and report the situation to law enforcement.

    It should never seek to influence the legal actions of its customers.

    Parent

    It's not "censorship" (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by Yman on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 12:35:05 PM EST
    Paypal is a private entity which has set up rules regarding the use of its services.  They determined that AS was in violation of those "Acceptible Use" policies, and withdrew their services.  Paypal is not a government body deciding what is permissible content for AS, AS has no "right" to use Paypal, and Paypal has not even been accused of violating any laws by withdrawing its services.  Just as you would not be obligated to extend your services to the ACLU, Paypal is not required to extend its services to AS.

    Don't like it?

    Talk to Paypal.

    Parent

    Huh? (none / 0) (#12)
    by squeaky on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 11:32:19 AM EST
    I have dodged nothing. You on the other hand have called Pay Pals business decision censorship, which is absurd.

    If you want to turn this into anything other than a business decision by a private company affecting another private company, I would suggest you look into the idea of a boycott.

    And if that seems remotely analogous to you, well, the question remains, did you support the SA boycott?

    Parent

    Maybe you should (none / 0) (#58)
    by jondee on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 03:30:24 PM EST
    start by asking your heroes who control AM talk radio and The Fox Network that question..

    Amazing that after all this time, it took the jeopardizing of the status of some unoriginal, amateurish, wingnut website for the problems that occur when power has too much control over the info flow to occur to you..

    Parent

    Selective Fainting Spell? (none / 0) (#52)
    by squeaky on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 02:58:35 PM EST
    Oh and I did not see you complaining or dragging out the fainting couch when your pal David Horowitz published his blacklist, or did I miss that?

    And we know that you were 100% behind McCarthy's blacklist. You are on record here as his defender.

    But when one private company decides it does not want to do business with a right wing hate site, you drag out the constitution, cry censorship and call it unamerican.  

    Parent

    Well, there you go again (none / 0) (#65)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 04:30:19 PM EST
    Sooner or later we find you exercising Squeaky's Law.

    "If I can't prove something I'll just smear."

    Links are your friend.

    As for Joe, I have said before and say now. He was right. There were communists in the government. What sucked was how he tried to expose them.

    Venona: Decoding Soviet Espionage in America (Yale Nota Bene) by John Earl Haynes and Harvey Klehr (Paperback - Aug. 11, 2000)

    Parent

    Smear? (none / 0) (#67)
    by squeaky on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 04:49:38 PM EST
    Linking you to David Horowitz a smear? Hardly you espouse much of the same garbage and have even quoted him here.

    And of course we already know that you are a proud commie hunter and backed McCarthy 100%.

    As for changing the subject, what's with the selective outrage?

    Nothing to say about Horowitz's black list or your support of McCarthy making it so anyone suspected of being a commie blacklisted and out of work?

    Parent

    Yes I did (none / 0) (#92)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 07:15:50 AM EST
    say that he was right....

    There were communists in the government.

    But his method of exposing them sucked.

    Parent

    I See (none / 0) (#94)
    by squeaky on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 12:31:58 PM EST
    So you smear yourself, as usual.

    Parent
    I would never have suspected (none / 0) (#57)
    by jondee on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 03:18:56 PM EST
    that you agreeing with what Atlas Shat posts, or says would have anything whatsoever to do with you protesting what Ebay is doing, until you broached that possibility..

    Parent
    Ghana up by one (none / 0) (#3)
    by Jen M on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 10:44:09 AM EST
    penalty inside the box

    A handball called by an Argentine.

    I missed the game (none / 0) (#17)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 11:46:56 AM EST
    Was it good?

    Parent
    Second half was (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by Jen M on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 12:50:17 PM EST
    I sort of blew off the first half. Doing chores and looking whenever the voices grew excited.

    Parent
    BP Escrow Account and Speech (none / 0) (#5)
    by squeaky on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 10:56:10 AM EST
    WASHINGTON -- President Obama for the first time will address the nation about the ongoing oil disaster in the Gulf of Mexico on Tuesday night and outline his plans to legally force BP executives to create an escrow account reserving billions of dollars to compensate businesses and individuals if the company does not do so on its own, a senior administration official said on Sunday.

    NYT

    It would be nicer to hear (none / 0) (#7)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 11:15:46 AM EST
    him say he is calling all our scientific and engineering resources into service...

    But he's not.

    The first people he sent to the coast were lawyers..

    He'd rather sue...

    Parent

    Yeah (none / 0) (#9)
    by squeaky on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 11:18:30 AM EST
    I read the WSJ/Rove propaganda editorial too. There are some other political operatives on this site who you can align with about it, not me though.

    Parent
    Free markets baby! (none / 0) (#13)
    by waldenpond on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 11:35:41 AM EST
    Wow, you are ragging on your system today aren't you.  If a business does well, it makes money, it it if dumps toxins in the gulf it has to pay to clean it up.   I guess you go along with the welfare queen at the Chamber of Commerce and Boehner that I should be forced to bail out BP.

    Free markets at work again here.  Why do you hate free markets so much?  Why?

    The first sent were lawyers? oy.

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    You are not paying attention (none / 0) (#21)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 12:32:58 PM EST
    The first people he sent to the coast were lawyers..

    He'd rather sue...

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    We'd all rather have a speedy clean up (none / 0) (#28)
    by BackFromOhio on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 01:01:01 PM EST
    than a lawsuit or two or dozens.  Given that BP is considering transfer of its assets to entities beyond U.S. jurisdiction while leaving to potential claimants here the remaining liabilities of BP North America, the move might have made sense.

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    Interesting (none / 0) (#41)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 01:52:59 PM EST
    Do you have any background on the "transfers?"

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    Just google (none / 0) (#59)
    by BackFromOhio on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 03:41:22 PM EST
    BP bankruptcy assets

    you'll get lots of hits.

    Stories were plentiful this past week.

    Parent

    According to one site (none / 0) (#63)
    by BackFromOhio on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 04:15:59 PM EST
    BP North Amer already transferring assets:

    Link

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    OH NO (none / 0) (#45)
    by Jen M on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 01:58:06 PM EST
    Germany 2

    I can't look.

    COME ON, AUSSIES!

    Oh look (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by Jen M on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 02:14:28 PM EST
    Germany does have a goalie. It's been hard to tell so far since we NEVER SEE HIM.

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    Germany 4 (none / 0) (#53)
    by Jen M on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 03:02:52 PM EST
    The Australian team seems to have died or something.

    :p

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    Rooted for Germany but heart went out to Socceroos (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by Ellie on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 04:31:27 PM EST
    Ouch, what a thrashing.

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    Hilarious, embarrassing baseball video (none / 0) (#55)
    by Dadler on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 03:10:06 PM EST
    HOpe his career is effectively over. (none / 0) (#56)
    by oculus on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 03:18:30 PM EST
    Before he has an MI.  

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    actually it's an old video (none / 0) (#62)
    by Dadler on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 03:53:50 PM EST
    can't remember how old, not terribly. backman was going to be the manager of the diamondbacks, as i recall, but then it got pulled because of a couple of arrests he'd had that he didn't disclose.

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    "Let's go have a beer Doc" (none / 0) (#78)
    by Raskolnikov on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 06:38:08 PM EST
    Great vid

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    What (none / 0) (#79)
    by NYShooter on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 07:32:31 PM EST
    I'm trying to say, and I certainly can be wrong, is this:
     Paul is obviously an intelligent person; he is a doctor, after all. And, I think he was trying to explain, in an obviously convoluted way, that "freedom" is a double edged sword. Freedom of speech, as decided in the Skokie, Ill. Matter, is pretty much absolute. Obviously, unless the speech is of the "fire in the theater" kind, the content of the speech, however disgusting, is protected.

    I believe Paul feels that "freedom" goes even further. While virtually no one disputes the illegality of discrimination in public domains, or even private domains where monopolies exist, he questions why a private enterprise can't discriminate for any reason whatsoever.

    In other words, he feels the Constitution explicitly grants individuals the right, the "freedom" to be a jerk, however repellent that position may be.

    Now, I'm an absolutist when it comes to discrimination of any kind, but I haven't had it explained, in a legal sense, why it's interpreted to include the private sector.

    Google Is Your Friend (none / 0) (#80)
    by squeaky on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 07:46:56 PM EST
    thanks (none / 0) (#81)
    by NYShooter on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 08:21:29 PM EST
    we'll give it a try

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    Google is NOT your friend. (none / 0) (#87)
    by EL seattle on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 09:42:55 PM EST
    Google is a business.  Google is a tool.  Google can be used to find information, sometimes with little effort.  But Google is not a human being. Machines cannot be your friends.

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    Well (none / 0) (#89)
    by squeaky on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 10:43:29 PM EST
    Unlike machines, most some humans understand metaphors, aka figures of speech.

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    Public accommodations (none / 0) (#96)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Jun 15, 2010 at 04:19:15 PM EST
    and there's always that little "All men are created equal" bit in our founding documents.

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    Mega mineral deposits found in (none / 0) (#83)
    by caseyOR on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 08:40:43 PM EST
    Afghanistan. According to a NY Times story, United States' officials have discovered massive untapped mineral resources in Afghanistan.

    I don't know what to think about this. It could be good or it could be bad. Certainly, everyone and their brother will want to control these resources. I'm sure the USA wants some payoff for all the lives and $$$$ we've poured into the country. Won't the Taliban fight for this, too? And China?

    And then, of course, there is the massively corrupt Karzai administration.

    I'd like for this to be a good thing for the Afghan people, but the opportunities for things to go wrong are huge.

    I just saw this also (none / 0) (#86)
    by NYShooter on Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 09:41:34 PM EST
    Funny thing is that it went right into my spam folder.

    Omen?

    Parent

    BTDs (none / 0) (#93)
    by CST on Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 08:58:43 AM EST
    record on picks in this cup borders on the hilarious.

    I hope you picked up a German win at least.

    Go Ghana!