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Monday Night TV and Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Media
Posted on Mon May 24, 2010 at 07:51:27 PM EST
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I'm still at work but the series finale to "24" is about to begin. This year wasn't the most exciting, but I'm sorry to see the show end.

Also tonight, The Bachelorette begins with Ali Fedotowski, who was one of the women competing for Jake on last season's Bachelor, meeting her 25 suitors. The season was filmed in LA, New York, Iceland, Turkey, Portugal and Tahiti, so at least the locations will be good. Ali's crying jags, indecisiveness and whimpering really wore on me last season. While she's attractive, I don't think she's particularly exciting, but I'm still going to give her another chance.

There's also the finale to DWTS and a new Nurse Jackie.

Here's an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    Monday Night TV and Open Thread | 41 comments (41 topical)

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    Reply to comment by KeysDan from earlier: (5.00 / 0) (#1)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Mon May 24, 2010 at 09:01:06 PM EST
    Regarding info on the BP Gulf Oil Spill, as you may already know, Firedoglake and Corrente have been particularly good about keeping the heat on this thing; also Dan Froomkin, at HuffPo.

    I don't know how to explain the relative silence on the subject here at TL -- both in the editorials and the open threads. I don't think it's due to indifference or a lack of concern.

    Perhaps I have a hyper-vigilant, less than healthy, streak that compels me to scour oodles of MSM sources and prog blogs every day for hours on end, looking for more and more info on the BP catastrophe. All of which leaves me feeling overwhelmed and under-informed, but still determined to continue.

    I'm in the Maritimes, in Canada, for a spell and today I went to the beaches. There are fresh water marshes and intertidal salt marshes as far as the eye can see. It was a particularly warm day and the birds were even more plentiful and joyful than usual. I thought about the Keys and the Gulf Coast wetlands and about what you wrote here a couple of days ago. Your comments have really personalized the issue for me and I assume it has for others as well.

    I live in Key West, (5.00 / 1) (#164)
    by KeysDan on Fri May 21, 2010 at 06:07:30 PM EST
    --------------------------------------------------
    so everyone in the Florida Keys is on edge. In some way or another, everything and everyone here is dependent on tourism--fishing, scuba diving, spear-fishing and all forms of water-related sports. In turn, this tourism is dependent on the ecologically sensitive environs. The Keys are quite remarkable with atolls and lakes miles out in the middle of the Gulf or Atlantic ocean in which the water is so shallow you can actually stand up; the coral reef is critically important ecologically and for protection of the islands. For example, Key West is 140 miles from Miami out in the middle of the Gulf/Atlantic and there are, essentially, no waves until beyond the reef. Our local governments have been having workshops and there has been an outpouring of community support from residents. BP gave $10,000 to the Florida Keys Community College to train 100 people in a basic four-hour course to qualify volunteers to do beach clean-up in light of the toxic dangers. The College has requested another $131,000 from BP to train 585 people to deal with different levels of hazardous materials, but that request has gone unanswered. So, a tuition of $575 is now being charged to boat captains and other workers Apparently, an on-line course is in the works, thanks to BP. BP is controlling all  containment efforts, and many captains are frustrated in their attempts to help and are  left to sit on shore. Of course, the Coast Guard is the major spokespersons and enforcer for BP.  

    Wishing you all of the best. Keep talking Dan.

    Definitely interested (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by ruffian on Tue May 25, 2010 at 09:49:04 AM EST
    I've been reading at Corrente and your updates here.

    I think there is probably nothing that can be done to stop the link. I don't have a lot to say about it, since it is so obviously an epic disaster.

    Prevention of a disaster by not allowing this high risk drilling was the only way out, but obviously that ship sailed a long time ago.

    Parent

    also (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by CST on Tue May 25, 2010 at 09:58:08 AM EST
    there may be something that can be done.  But I have no idea what it might be, and so I feel like I'm stuck here, watching in horror, with no sense of control or hope that really anything can be done about it.

    It's really freaking depressing.

    On a gut level I agree with you, the only way to stop this was an ounce of prevention, and it's obviously too late for that.

    And I don't feel like I have the scientific knowledge to make a lot of statements about what they should be doing differently.  I have no idea what the right thing to do here is.

    Parent

    aaargh. stop the leak. (none / 0) (#7)
    by ruffian on Tue May 25, 2010 at 09:49:43 AM EST
    don't stop the link!

    Parent
    Also reading all from you and KeysDan (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Cream City on Tue May 25, 2010 at 10:37:04 AM EST
    and spent a lot of time (that I don't have right now, but I make it) at links you recommend -- so was telling friends last night about the weird looping of dated tapes and such when whatever went very wrong two days ago happened . . . and still waiting for any media recognition of that incident.

    I don't necessarily reply, though, because what is there to say, to do?  This situation just seems no different from several times in this administration, just as in the previous one, when I got all involved and made calls and emails and more -- even confronting one of my members of Congress f2f, publicly -- but was told only more lies.

    So I watch, I wait, I read you and others.  And I mourn for the lovely Gulf -- and that I was not able to get back there for the last couple of years, if it is devastated for decades ahead.

    Parent

    Same for me Dan (none / 0) (#2)
    by ZtoA on Mon May 24, 2010 at 10:24:47 PM EST
    I don't know you but you have become the voice of the Keys for me.

    I lived in NO for a couple of years when I was a young rebellious insane person. Even did portraits on the square. When NO became too much I'd take off for Pensacola to have complete solitude on the white beaches. At night the gentle waves would glow with phosphorescence. The Keys are unique and the wetlands all along the gulf are priceless.

    I don't know if you've both (or all) been following it but I've got to say the last day or so has been really confusing. I truly hope the top kill works. Wednesday is what I heard last.

    I've been very critical of Obama for lots of things, but for some reason I'm not enraged at him or the administration about this. Yet. I do hope they will rise to the occasion. They are getting kicked in the pants from their friends so that might help. I am not happy (understatement) with Bush/Cheney tho and the lack of regulations and the lack of oversight that was the standard they established.

    I've been reading FDL, and OilDrum and LifeAfterTheOilCrash Forum. And NOLA news - what sites do you recommend for a lay person to get info? I'm getting to the point that I can actually read it - can't speak it yet, like learning a new language, the comprehension comes first.

    My deepest best wishes for all who live on the gulf. I truly hope this well is stopped this week, they stop dumping toxic dispersants into the gulf and nature goes into overdrive to clean up. I also hope BP and Haliburton are actually held accountable and Obama grows more assertive.

    Parent

    I've been reading a much as I can (none / 0) (#3)
    by caseyOR on Mon May 24, 2010 at 10:43:04 PM EST
    stand to. Mostly at MonkeyFister and at Corrente. Things are so much worse than the WH and the press are letting on.

    Tonight both Katie Couric and Diane Sawyer reported from the Gulf Coast. It seemed that both of them are trying to find the truth of this disaster, but neither one seems willing to accept that both BP and the Obama administration are being less than truthful.

    And if I hear one more person (the OBP ceo, CG Admiral Thad Allen,) insist that we not look back at what happened (the many egregious decisions that led us to this catastrophe) but look to the future and fixing this, I will scream. Because really, this whole "look forward, not back" mantra means that nobody has to take responsibility (ala Bush/Cheney) and none of the perpetrators even gets called to account.

    Parent

    The Monkeyfister (none / 0) (#4)
    by ZtoA on Mon May 24, 2010 at 10:56:57 PM EST
    stuff has been interesting. And very confusing. All the stuff about the live feed being looped. There is a great deal of distrust in information from either BP or the government. That is very unfortunate. It breaks a level of trust - trust in information. So far, that is my greatest frustration - that information is not being released - and that which is is unreliable. People - regular nerds and geeks like engineers and other professional brilliant people - do not trust information released by the US government. And its understandable I guess. They (BP, Halliberton, that other engineering firm I can never remember the name of, and the US government) have a lot to lose. I'm usually down with (or at least understanding of) the US government being opaque, but this is physical. It is impacting food and life and beauty and people's (and life's) homes.

    BTW thanks for the Corrente head's up - hadn't been checking in there.

    Parent

    Query to all and Casey, do you watch TV news? (none / 0) (#25)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Tue May 25, 2010 at 12:07:14 PM EST
    Networks and/or cable. Is there any analysis or critique going on? What's the gist of what they're saying? What are they showing picture-wise. Are any of the networks doing a half-decent job of giving this adequate time and attention.

    I suspect a good portion of the public is getting their news on this from TV and it would good to know how public opinion is being managed in that arena.

    Parent

    All your comments of kindness and concern (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by KeysDan on Tue May 25, 2010 at 08:16:09 AM EST
    are greatly appreciated.  As member of our local Reef Relief, an organization that attempts to give strength and support to preserve and protect the coral reef ecosystems, I have been concerned with all manner of abuse, from individualized eco-insensitivies to cruise ship bilge discharges. So, the oil blow was of immediate worry which I have attempted to related to TL from the outset.  The blow was understated and underestimated by the BP/government and the media, including the NYT whose early editorial referred to this as a fluke and cautioned that it should not dissuade us from OSC drilling. I  have attempted to point out the criminal track record of BP and that it would be governmental malpractice to permit this criminal spiller to Control (with a capital C) the spill. The Coast Guard has been disappointing to the extent that I have come to believe that it should be transferred to DOD from Homeland Security.  My references to CG Admiral Landry as the Dana Perino of the oil blow was not to be interpreted as a compliment. Her briefings were stenographic utterances from BP, with her "managing expectations" bit.  CG chief Thad Allen is also a cheer leader for BP, giving the old line of not looking backward, only going forward. He is scheduled for retirement and he should be encouraged to go fishing as scheduled, but advise him to stay away from the Gulf. Some fresh eyes and ears are needed.  And, of course, MMS, becomes more despicable with each revelation.  The Sec of Energy who is as competent as the Sec of Interior is not, needs to be more involved (even he stumbled out of the gate with a "controversial" appointment, but the others from the Jason group, including a hydrogen bomb expert are tremendous problem solvers.)  My view that the response should be nationalized was initially taken as some sort of nasty comment about President Obama, but it was really a plea for actionable leadership. But even strong supporters of the President including James Carville, Donna Brazile, and Bob Herbert  (see his NYT op ed today) are among that chorus. Of course, if nationalization is too scary of a designation, maybe Salazar's "BP may soon be pushed out of the way", before he backed off,  plays better.  BP and the country's interests are not the same (BP originally wanted to capture the oil, and only later did it attempt efforts to kill the well). It is apparent, from the sorrowful state of affairs that we are reliant on BP, but it is a national catastrophe and requires national leadership, rather than BP as pilot and God as our copilot.

    I wish I thought there was something (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by ruffian on Tue May 25, 2010 at 09:51:22 AM EST
    the feds could do, even if they took over from BP. What would they do to stop the leak?

    Parent
    We will not know what, if anything, (none / 0) (#12)
    by KeysDan on Tue May 25, 2010 at 10:17:49 AM EST
    can be done by marshaling all the governmental resources to stop the well unless and until the government takes a stronger hand, including overriding the proprietary interests of BP. Right now, we do not know if BP is doing all the right things.  But we do know that BP has not stopped it.  Certainly, the government can do better with other aspects of the response. Even Admiral Landry is now acknowledging that the response has lagged and told reporters that she has called BP to task for failing to make sure boats do not sit idle if there is work to be done. There is no excuse for not having constant activity, she continued. In Louisiana, a local emergency manager commandeered all 40 boom-laying boats hired by BP that were sitting idly at Grand Isles as oil sloshed ashore.  Residents are going out in their own boats to lay booms around bird sanctuaries. BP is deciding on everything, the usual capture the oil or burn the oil is giving way to Corexit 9500, never used before in such quantities (almost l million gallons have been dumped, so far.)  Of course, the dispersants have been routinely used, but not at the site of wellhead gusher.  And, the EPA ever so softly ordered BP to use a less toxic dispersant, but they said no, we like the one we have on hand and have been using for 20 years.  And the government said, well OK then.  It has the BP advantage of keeping the oil from surfacing, and out of sight.  Salazar, when asked if he had confidence in what BP was doing, he was forced to reply, "no, not completely".  

    Parent
    Exactly (none / 0) (#16)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue May 25, 2010 at 10:41:32 AM EST
    Holding hands in the air and saying, "we can't do anything," BP has to do it!", is a bunch of garbage and everyone with an ounce of intellectual honesty knows it.

    I have one word for the "but what could he do?" crowd. That is, containment.  Contain the spilled oil.  Bring in the Navy and the Coast Guard and hire private contractors if required. Of course, after 30 days of waffling and hiding facts from the American public,  the administration has a larger mess than ever and it's continuing to grow larger. The situation down there is a disaster...and who owns the disaster?  The Democrats and the president.

    Plenty of people have made good suggestions about what to do....the bottom line is the president isn't doing them.  The rally squad here at Talk Left needs to ask itself WHY not, and stop with the throwing the hands in the air and supporting a vacuum of effort that you would be outraged about if it were in the hands of Bush.

    Parent

    Not quite what I meant (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by ruffian on Tue May 25, 2010 at 10:59:20 AM EST
    but I realize I did not elaborate.

    I don't trust that the government has any more expertise that BP does when it comes to stopping the leak. On one hand we are not trusting the government information that is coming out, and on the other we are asking them to take over. You want Salazar in charge? Not sure I do. I always said he was a lame appointment.

    Why are they not taking all the suggestions? I have no expertise in evaluating the suggestions for their efficacy, so I can't answer that.

    Yes, in the containment area they should be doing a lot more. The Coast Guard was brought in. Could the Navy help? If it is a manpower and equipment issue, they should be getting all available personnel down there.

    Should they loosen up other environmental protection rules to let people do more with berms around the islands, as Jindahl suggests? I can't say if that hurts more than helps in the log run.

    Of course the Dems and the Pres own the disaster. That's the way these things work (unless you happen to be GWB and there is a terrorist attack.)  they should be held accountable for what they do or do not do. I just don't know how to make the accounting myself at this point.  

    Parent

    exactly (none / 0) (#20)
    by CST on Tue May 25, 2010 at 11:08:03 AM EST
    and at the end of the day, I'd say the average commenter or citizen really does not have the scientific know-how to figure out what a "good idea" really is.  I mean, maybe this stuff is good, or maybe it's just crazy.  Personally, the suggestion that we nuke the leak sounds absolutely crazy to me, but maybe it's actually a good idea.

    That's not letting the government off the hook.  It's their job to know and they are not doing their job.  It's just admitting that I don't really have much to add to the discussion because I personally do not know.

    Parent

    I understand your point on (none / 0) (#22)
    by KeysDan on Tue May 25, 2010 at 11:41:35 AM EST
    the seeming inconsistency on untrustworthiness  of the government and wanting the government to take control.  The difference, to me, is that the government at this point is Charlie McCarthy to BP's Edgar Bergen.  However, put out on its own, it will be forced to make its own decisions and defend them--not hiding behind the Father BP knows best.  The Obama administration's early stake is sensed to be that BP will solve this quickly and our OSC drilling plan will not be jeopardized, and the egg-on-the-face of stating that offshore drilling, just one month before the blow,  does not result in spills anymore would be washed away in the shiny waves. Now, unless the Top Kill is reasonably successful, the options are narrowed and the next best shot is relief wells that may be ready by mid-August.  Hopefully they have been designed correctly.  And, if this is the only way to kill a wild well, maybe relief wells should be required at the same time as the main well is drilled. No time to build a fire department after a fire, even if it is claimed that fires never happen.  Of course that idea will be resisted since the relief wells now being drilled will set BP back about $100 million and they balked at a dead man's remote switch at $50,000 and prevailed.

    Parent
    But what if Father BP really (none / 0) (#24)
    by ruffian on Tue May 25, 2010 at 11:58:22 AM EST
    does know best? I don't know anyone in any government position likely to do any better, even if forced to make their own decisions and defend them. They would just hire some other oil company as consultants.

    Government was totally unprepared for an accident/negligent act of this magnitude.

    I think what will happen is that BP will not succeed in stopping the leak, government will take as much control as possible without it legally absolving BP from future events that come as a result, and we will see what happens.  Nothing good, is my prediction.

    Parent

    In the meantime (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by ruffian on Tue May 25, 2010 at 12:11:55 PM EST
    I think it should be able to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway: I support Sec. Chu's posItion for a moratorium on all new drilling. If the energy secretary is for that, I think it should prevail in the WH.  In fact it seems like a no-brainer to me.

    that's it for my opining until new data comes in....

    Parent

    Sec Chu (none / 0) (#28)
    by CST on Tue May 25, 2010 at 12:16:14 PM EST
    is pretty much the only one in this admin I could really trust on this issue anyway.

    very very smart man.

    Parent

    Here is first hit for "BP spill": (none / 0) (#30)
    by oculus on Tue May 25, 2010 at 12:25:07 PM EST
    BP.com

    Info about the Gulf of Mexico Spill Learn More about How BP is Helping.



    Parent
    Excellent comments, ruffian (none / 0) (#31)
    by christinep on Tue May 25, 2010 at 03:59:57 PM EST
    (1) People need to get info about who really has the technical know-how and resource power here. Cutbacks in inspections & enforcement throughout the govt. during the Bush years have had an effect. Namely, ruffian correctly surmises that the government may have no more expertise in this unique situation than the company has. And, the Coast Guard has said so. Wishing for it to be otherwise doesn't change that scary reality.
    (2) Meanwhile, the suggestions about marshalling continually any reasonable makes sense. The containment person-power of the Navy should be able to be coordinated with the CG.
    (3) By focusing totally on clean-up, we are looking ahead. (The eventual legal documentation of wrong doing will surely follow--as with Exxon--during the penalty phase.) I strongly urge everyone to take some part in what will surely be a reformulation of standards for permits in the Gulf, as that is a concrete action that can effect the desired outcome. (Of course, that the coming months will witness a proposed permitting standard for Gulf drilling is just my surmise. But--hey--that is probably a matter of when the Federal Register proposal is printed.)

    Parent
    I do have condfidence in Bob Graham (none / 0) (#37)
    by ruffian on Tue May 25, 2010 at 07:32:21 PM EST
    doing the digging into what went wrong and when. If he is half as diligent as he was looking into the intelligence failures that led to 9/11, he will get to the bottom of it.

    People have correctly said that a commission is not going to plug the leak, but the 'lessons learned' phase will be important too.

    Parent

    Help is on the way... (5.00 / 0) (#17)
    by kdog on Tue May 25, 2010 at 10:46:43 AM EST
    for less than white folks in AZ...the Gringo Mask.

    Buh bye Kwame Kilpatrick (none / 0) (#9)
    by jbindc on Tue May 25, 2010 at 09:53:56 AM EST
    Judge sentenced him to 18 months to 5 years for failure to pay restituion/ probation violation.  Goes above sentencing recommendation of 17 months. Judge says, "Probation is no longer an option.  That ship has sailed.". Also says, "This entire proceeding was precipitated by the actions of you."

    See the Detroit Free Press or the Detroit News.

    Good riddance to bad rubbish.

    BP Blast from the past... (none / 0) (#11)
    by kdog on Tue May 25, 2010 at 10:09:41 AM EST
    was just reminded via documentary whose bidding we were doing when we sent the CIA to overthrow Mosaddeq in Iran...you guessed it, British Freakin' Petroleum.

    There's a ton of competition, but they might be the corporate devil of the century, all things considered.

    About all I can think of to do is avoid BP like the plague...anybody know what other brands they sell under or sell to, to better boycott the mofos? I'm not googling well.  It's up to us folks...the government is in bed with 'em.  Bankrupt 'em, or at least try.

    Yes, and BP and its forerunners, (none / 0) (#13)
    by KeysDan on Tue May 25, 2010 at 10:20:32 AM EST
    got quite a sweetheart deal, Iran got its "fair share" but it was not allowed to see the books.

    Parent
    The Somali kid... (none / 0) (#14)
    by kdog on Tue May 25, 2010 at 10:31:27 AM EST
    got 27 years for piracy...I guess BP piracy was legal, is legal, and always will be legal...as well as their poisoning of the Gulf...inequality under the law strikes again and again and again.  

    If you or I dumped 1/1,000,000 of the poison BP dumped in the Gulf, we'd be in the system right now...bet yo arse.

    Parent

    kdog yes (none / 0) (#18)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue May 25, 2010 at 10:55:27 AM EST
    what BP has done was "legal."

    Piracy is not legal.

    If we don't like the laws, we can change'em.  Problem is the world runs on oil so those that provide oil are gonna get a seat at the head of the table.

    If want to do something constructive we should be pushing for shale leases to be passed out, ANWR to open up and ac crash program for nuclear power.

    Instead we have pushed ourselves into this mess by letting toxic environmentalism shut down the safer methods and places and we see the result.

    Parent

    I hear this a lot... (none / 0) (#21)
    by kdog on Tue May 25, 2010 at 11:19:06 AM EST
    "If we don't like the laws, we can change them."

    Not in this framework we can't...the only to way to change laws that I can think of is full-scale revolt.

    Yes, the world runs on oil and exploitation...and it always will if we let oil companies and exploiters continue to decide which democratically elected leaders can stay in office and which can't...continue to write their own regs...continue to dodge clean-up responsibility.  Thanks for the reminder of how truly farked this world is.

    Parent

    If we want to do something (none / 0) (#23)
    by ruffian on Tue May 25, 2010 at 11:43:07 AM EST
    really productive we would be working a lot harder to get off fossil fuels altogether. Repower America.

    Parent
    Okay (none / 0) (#32)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue May 25, 2010 at 04:55:51 PM EST
    You first.

    Tell me what we can do to replace oil.

    I mean I am all for replacing oil, I just can't think of anything that would replace it.

    And working harderwon't solve anything.

    Parent

    ANWR pops up a again (none / 0) (#26)
    by jondee on Tue May 25, 2010 at 12:07:53 PM EST
    like a right wing, talking-point-pimple that wont go away.

    And while you're at it, you might as well get a word in about runaway secularism, cutting off funding for public radio, the NEA and more money for charter schools..just get 'em all out of the way in one fell swoop.

    "Toxic environmentalism" lol As if that toxic deregulate-everything approach had been working out just swimmingly for all concerned these last few years..  

    Parent

    Your (none / 0) (#34)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue May 25, 2010 at 04:57:28 PM EST
    imagination exceeds normal expectations.

    Parent
    The expectations (none / 0) (#38)
    by jondee on Tue May 25, 2010 at 10:30:05 PM EST
    wither away to nothing when a person relies on the sources of information you do.

    Parent
    Rolling Dice (none / 0) (#29)
    by Rojas on Tue May 25, 2010 at 12:19:37 PM EST
    Mandatory minimums for everyone but the Players at the head of the table who roll the dice.
    Open up ANWR to BP so they can divert the operating expensise to their pockets again until the pipeline rots and the oil spills out on the tundra. It's all "legal" doncha know. Absolute madness.

    Parent
    Ultimately, the major blame (none / 0) (#33)
    by jondee on Tue May 25, 2010 at 04:56:01 PM EST
    lies with the environmentalists: like Rush said, make the Sierra Club pay for the clean up.

    Then we push ahead with gutting regulatory agencies and giving the remaining jobs to lobbyists. And of course, make the Bush tax cuts permanent.

    Because we on the Right are just THAT f*cking stupid: there's strength in having an extremely limited set of unalterable ideas.

    Parent

    Jondee (none / 0) (#35)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue May 25, 2010 at 05:00:06 PM EST
    all the child like screaming in the world won't solve the problem. The world runs on oil. Now, tell me how you would replace oil.

    Again. I'm all for it. I just don't see how it can be done in a manner that is acceptable.

    Parent

    First off (5.00 / 0) (#36)
    by jondee on Tue May 25, 2010 at 05:44:09 PM EST
    the fact that you automatically take the Limbaugh tack tells me you're about as open to new ideas as your average aboriginal witch doctor..

    And obviously turning it into a black and white, either-or scenario means not having to address constructive incremental change at all: such as, for starters, dropping once-and-for-all this ongoing charade of self-regulating industry benefiting us all; and politicizing what has been a bigger world crisis all along (the energy crisis) -- that requires a national effort, than the WOT, or any of the other innumerable distractions favored by the save-the-status-quo-at-all-costs folks. A national project for conservation, including re-education and the best minds put to work to research and develop  alternatives is the only recourse we have at this point. But you knew that..      

    Parent

    I will put you down as (none / 0) (#39)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue May 25, 2010 at 10:58:30 PM EST
    a chronic complainer who has no idea.

    Did I miss anything?

    Parent

    Quite a bit actually (none / 0) (#40)
    by jondee on Tue May 25, 2010 at 11:01:02 PM EST
    but, that's probably been going on for the last forty years at least.

    Parent
    Well, when you put nothing on display.... (none / 0) (#41)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu May 27, 2010 at 07:00:42 AM EST


    Parent
    Monday Night TV and Open Thread | 41 comments (41 topical)

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