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    " . . a somewhat less intact box," (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed May 19, 2010 at 05:36:36 PM EST
    Link Between Creativity and Mental Illness Revealed

    Creativity often goes hand-in-hand with mental illness, such as
    schizophrenia. Now scientists think they know why: The brain responds
    differently to the "feel good" chemical dopamine in both schizophrenics and
    the highly creative, a new study suggests.

    The results showed similarities between the brains in healthy, highly
    creative people and those with schizophrenia. The findings suggest that
    creative types might not be able to filter information in their heads as
    well as "normal" folks, leaving them better able to make novel connections
    and generate unique ideas.

    "Thinking outside the box might be facilitated by having a somewhat less intact box," said study researcher Fredrik Ullén, of the Karolinska Institutet in Stockholm, Sweden.




    I'm always dubious of studies ... (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by Robot Porter on Wed May 19, 2010 at 07:00:58 PM EST
    with this finding.  Because there always seems to the goal behind such findings of letting people off the hook for not being creative.  They can say to themselves they're not creative because they're not crazy.

    Although there may be some minimal innate abilities that aid in creativity.  Most of it comes from lots and lots of practice.  And, even after all that practice, it's still very hard work.

    Parent

    But: (none / 0) (#6)
    by oculus on Wed May 19, 2010 at 05:43:50 PM EST
    Ullén and his colleagues administered psychological tests to 14 participants with no history of mental illness.


    Parent
    right but the point was (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed May 19, 2010 at 05:47:21 PM EST
    this

    Ullén and his colleagues administered psychological tests to 14 participants with no history of mental illness. The tests were designed to measure creativity, asking the subjects to find many different solutions to a problem.

    Those who did well on this test, and were deemed "highly creative," had a lower density of specific receptors in their brains for dopamine, called D2 receptors, in a region called the thalamus, than did less creative people, according to Ullén.

    honestly it all makes perfect sense to me.
    I work in an insane asylum.


    Parent

    Have you read Nancy Milford's (none / 0) (#12)
    by oculus on Wed May 19, 2010 at 05:57:15 PM EST
    bio of Zelda Fitzgerald?  (1983)  "Zelda."  After I read it I got really worried.

    Parent
    Why? (none / 0) (#14)
    by squeaky on Wed May 19, 2010 at 06:00:41 PM EST
    Was she a prosecutor once too? Or did you identify in other ways?

    Parent
    Ha. (none / 0) (#16)
    by oculus on Wed May 19, 2010 at 06:03:24 PM EST
    Well, according to some, prosecutors (none / 0) (#20)
    by oculus on Wed May 19, 2010 at 06:06:37 PM EST
    create evidence/cases out of thin air.

    Parent
    Well (none / 0) (#23)
    by squeaky on Wed May 19, 2010 at 06:13:03 PM EST
    Getting snitches and out of work starlets to provide hearsay, when a defendant is looking to have his or her freedom taken away, seems pretty thin to me.

    Parent
    Did I miss the announcement? Has any (none / 0) (#29)
    by oculus on Wed May 19, 2010 at 06:25:12 PM EST
    prosecuting agency filed a new criminal case against Mr. Polanski?

    Parent
    Getting complicated. (none / 0) (#32)
    by oculus on Wed May 19, 2010 at 06:28:29 PM EST
    What Are The Charges? (none / 0) (#34)
    by squeaky on Wed May 19, 2010 at 06:33:42 PM EST
    I still can't figure out how the "sexual abuse in the worst possible way" translates into a crime, considering the report in the daily news or wherever it was that reported the meat and potatoes.

    Parent
    Prediction: there won't be any (none / 0) (#36)
    by oculus on Wed May 19, 2010 at 06:35:33 PM EST
    criminal charges filed re the latest allegations.  

    Parent
    Because (none / 0) (#38)
    by squeaky on Wed May 19, 2010 at 06:40:13 PM EST
    She either agreed to have sex with him in a country where she was one year older than the age of consent, or ????

    Parent
    I don't see why (5.00 / 2) (#44)
    by lilburro on Wed May 19, 2010 at 06:53:23 PM EST
    it's necessary to assume she's lying.  Or not lying.

    Parent
    Fine (none / 0) (#47)
    by squeaky on Wed May 19, 2010 at 06:56:04 PM EST
    Although it is clear what she is doing, which has more to do with her than Polanski, imo.

    Parent
    Because a prosecutor should only (none / 0) (#41)
    by oculus on Wed May 19, 2010 at 06:49:09 PM EST
    issue a criminal case if the issuing deputy believes the case can be proven to a jury beyond a reasonable doubt.  Witness' credibility is in question and case is "stale."  Statute of limitations may have run.  Don't know.

    Parent
    And the Charge (none / 0) (#46)
    by squeaky on Wed May 19, 2010 at 06:54:44 PM EST
    Which has been repeated ad nauseum: Sexually abused in the worst possible way?

    Libel? or Book deal...

    Unlike you, who take Lewis' quote on face value and find Polanski "disgusting", I find her PR innuendo blitz,  disgusting.

    Parent

    Excuse Me (none / 0) (#33)
    by squeaky on Wed May 19, 2010 at 06:30:11 PM EST
    I was responding to the general comment you made that "some" people think that prosecutors make cases out of thin air.

    And with the 24/7 PR blitz by Lewis about her "sexual abuse" charges, I am surprised that charges have not been filed, at the very least libel.

    Parent

    Why hasn't Polanski filed libel charges (5.00 / 2) (#53)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Wed May 19, 2010 at 07:29:40 PM EST
    against Charlotte Lewis -- if she is lying, as you suggest?

    I mean, if Polanski can disprove her account, why doesn't he go ahead and do that. It would help rebuild his brand, no? I would think he'd welcome the opportunity.

    Parent

    Dunno? (none / 0) (#54)
    by squeaky on Wed May 19, 2010 at 07:33:23 PM EST
    Write him a letter,and send a check, if you are so concerned.

    Parent
    Isn't your check in the mail already ;-) (none / 0) (#56)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Wed May 19, 2010 at 07:42:35 PM EST
    Your Sincerity is Disarming (none / 0) (#57)
    by squeaky on Wed May 19, 2010 at 07:52:11 PM EST
    I know it is. (none / 0) (#71)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Wed May 19, 2010 at 08:44:38 PM EST
    And they were as creative as (none / 0) (#8)
    by Militarytracy on Wed May 19, 2010 at 05:45:36 PM EST
    fence posts :)?

    Parent
    People who have SAD are extremely creative (none / 0) (#7)
    by Militarytracy on Wed May 19, 2010 at 05:44:46 PM EST
    I have bursts in the fall....but I don't have many symptoms living here and creativity has actually seemed to have fallen off a bit at that time.

    Parent
    snort (none / 0) (#11)
    by ZtoA on Wed May 19, 2010 at 05:55:07 PM EST
    the findings suggest that creative types might not be able to filter information in their heads as well as "normal" folks, leaving them better able to make novel connections and generate unique ideas.

    Having known many (and been) in a creative field for many decades I can say the information is processed in non-linear ways, but I doubt there is really such a thing as "normal". It is one reason so many artists are dyslexic. They do not see from left to right - their eyes don't track that way. Often they (we) back into information. And also, artists (sort of like athletes) process information in more ways than 'in their heads'.

    Parent

    also (5.00 / 2) (#17)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed May 19, 2010 at 06:03:39 PM EST
    the bit about

    leaving them better able to make novel connections and generate unique ideas.

    one only has to read my comments.

    Parent

    See, this is why I posted the cont. ed. (none / 0) (#18)
    by oculus on Wed May 19, 2010 at 06:05:29 PM EST
    course blurb above.  Who needs a course when we have TL?

    Parent
    ha (none / 0) (#21)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed May 19, 2010 at 06:06:46 PM EST
    as the article suggests there is an upside and a downside

    Parent
    well (none / 0) (#13)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed May 19, 2010 at 06:00:03 PM EST
    I share you experience and dyslexia but while I agree that "normal" is problematic I definitely think there are non creative people.

    the piece was mostly about problem solving in unusual ways.  I think highly creative people absolutely have abilities others do not in that respect.  and that those can translate to other parts of their lives.  

    my mothers favorite saying about me, for example, was that I could "fall into a bucket of sh!t and come out smelling like a rose".

    Parent

    creative problem solving AND (none / 0) (#27)
    by ZtoA on Wed May 19, 2010 at 06:20:42 PM EST
    creative problem finding! I hear that many corporations like to see art studio classes on the resumes of their best hires since these classes involve problem solving - and problem finding.

    I can't remember which car it was - American car - that was the most popular globally. It was one in the 50s with "wings" and lots of chrome. Both pure design (art) elements. Neither made the car faster or safer or (and at that time they did not care) more efficient. Just the pure art of the car.

    Parent

    Yeah (none / 0) (#15)
    by squeaky on Wed May 19, 2010 at 06:02:18 PM EST
    Science is always trying to ferret that secret out...  probably so that they can "can" it.

    Parent
    I'm plenty creative and I like to think my (none / 0) (#70)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Wed May 19, 2010 at 08:42:55 PM EST
    "box" is plenty "intact".

    Parent
    Gulf oil gusher (5.00 / 3) (#24)
    by ZtoA on Wed May 19, 2010 at 06:14:18 PM EST
    thanks, Fox, for the EcoEarth link.

    ------------
    But it is the use of the chemical dispersant in such depths that has become the increasing focus of concern. Until now, Corexit 9500 has been approved for surface use only.

    Chemical dispersants break oil into small globules, allowing it to disperse more quickly into the water or air before currents can wash it ashore...."Dispersants... are toxic to marine life, so there are trade-offs to consider," David Pettit of the Natural Resources Defence Council told the Washington Post last week. "And just because humans can't see oil on the surface doesn't mean it's not still in the water column, affecting marine life from plankton to whales."

    Another toxiciology expert, Dr William Sawyer, who has made a presentation to the US lawyers representing environmental and other interests after the spill has added to the concern: "The dispersants used in the BP clean-up efforts, known as Corexit 9500 and Corexit EC9527A, are also known as deodorized kerosene,"

    link

    -------

    Oil is described http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/dear-science/Content?oid=4040881 as

    Crude oil is the decay of things that died a long time ago--the end product of millennia of digestion (biological and chemical) in the absence of oxygen. The resultant chemical brew carries the taint of previous life--with all manner of complex organic compounds close enough to their living doppelgängers to wreak havoc on the still mortal. Best characterized are the cohort of nasty tricyclic aromatic compounds that kill the hearts (literally) of living things--from mammals to insects and microbes (shrimp included).

    So oil has a host of microorganisms that like to eat it and it is not a friend to the current organisms living in the gulf. Add to the oil (not just at the surface but pumped into the oil at deep levels) dispersants and the oil breaks up into bite sized globs and floats around in (not just on) the seawater. Marine animals like whales and turtles (?) who need to surface will face oil in their lungs, but the basic micro-environment will change.

    I hope the relief well works and the heavy mud and golf balls they are throwing at the hole works too. There is a new pipe that siphons off 3-5000 barrels a day. I don't think they still know how much oil is gushing - or they're not saying.

    Finally, an amazing "amateur" video of the oil slick here.

    I'm going to have an emotional tell all moment (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by ZtoA on Wed May 19, 2010 at 08:21:01 PM EST
    Global climate change has been a difficult and annoying subject for me. There, I've said it. Truth is, I could just not get my head around it. But the gulf disaster is changing that for me, and maybe it will for others.

    If I was some sort of person who counts in the environmental debate I would have been livid with those scientists who did their jobs so poorly to feed climate change deniers political meth. And I am not a huge fan of Al Gore. So, have I addressed all the climate change opposition? Think so.

    But, being a simple and direct sort of person making a small experiment in a cup in my work place that has water and oil and some chemicals it turns out to be similar to Corexit's and dispersing the oil in my cup and actually seeing the horrid mess I can see that the gulf is actually finite. Politicians (and others) who poo-poo this as a problem do not see the gulf as finite. And from this I've started seeing that if we dump particulate matter into the air it too is finite.

    OK, air and water are organic living things (or at least contain lots of such) and can absorb lots of crap. But does there come a tipping point? A point of no return? Those have been the questions. These are real questions. IMO yes, there is a tipping range, and we are playing in that range. I guess I just said what climate scientists have been saying. Just getting it now tho.

    Parent

    Hate to pop (1.00 / 0) (#81)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed May 19, 2010 at 09:03:04 PM EST
    your bubble climate change has nothing to do with man cleaning up the environment.


    Parent
    OK my bubble is popped, but (none / 0) (#83)
    by ZtoA on Wed May 19, 2010 at 09:28:53 PM EST
    just what do you think climate change is attributable to? Do you think that particulate matter in the atmosphere is completely inconsequential? Do you think that oil and dispersant in the gulf will be inconsequential?

    And I never said climate change is about "man" cleaning up "his" environment. I said that humans contribute to change. You have entirely too much fun on this site, Jim.

    Parent

    Keep in mind that (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by jondee on Wed May 19, 2010 at 09:42:57 PM EST
    you're taking to task someone who says he believes Intelligent Design has as much validity as scientific theory as the evolution of species.

    Discussing the human impact on the environment without bringing the wrath of God into it is too secularist an interpretation of the data for these people.

    Parent

    Well I have a great sympathy (none / 0) (#86)
    by ZtoA on Wed May 19, 2010 at 09:50:51 PM EST
    for evolution deniers.  :)

    In fact, Jim, I'll share a fun little exchange where you win (it pokes fun at the left as well as.... everyone). Here.  Jim, you get to be Phoebe, but instead of the "overloards" you can insert "god representatives". Jondee you might like the clip  - its been around for quite a while, but still fun!

    Parent

    I have some sympathy too (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by jondee on Wed May 19, 2010 at 10:12:10 PM EST
    just not with the ones who claim it's part of some larger "agenda" promulgated by radicals who have taken over our once proud seats of higher learning.

    Parent
    I'll share a little bit of facts with you (none / 0) (#95)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed May 19, 2010 at 11:09:11 PM EST
    I know no one who denies that evolution of species exists. It is a demonstrable fact.

    I know many, many, many, many people who do not believe that evolution has ever created a NEW species.

    I trust you can see the difference.

    You may insert what ever you want where you want when you want.

    Parent

    Point me to one (none / 0) (#97)
    by jondee on Wed May 19, 2010 at 11:20:47 PM EST
    of those many, many, many , many, many people who is a non-religious fundamentalist evolutionary biologist.

    We all know you can find many, many etc at any Mega Church or Tea Party.

    Parent

    Jim, (none / 0) (#120)
    by ZtoA on Thu May 20, 2010 at 10:35:11 AM EST
    I know no one who denies that evolution of species exists. It is a demonstrable fact.

    I know many, many, many, many people who do not believe that evolution has ever created a NEW species.

    Personally I think these issues are interesting until they get turned into politics and people head for a "camp" and get completely rigid in their thinking (which is how you are arguing, Jim, tho I suspect you actually CAN think better than that, but who knows?)

    Anyhow, as a science evolution should itself be able to be challenged. Good science needs to be challenged, it then proves its points or changes and gets stronger. Therefore I think new species is an interesting study for evolutionary scientists.

    You are not saying what you think comes into force at those critical evolutionary junctures, but may I assume you are thinking the judeo-christian god acts on matter in order affect it? You could just as well think that the alien overloards zap matter along the assembly line of their earth experiment. I think you mean the first, but they work out to be much the same.

    And the reason these two scenarios are similar is that a force is acting on matter from without. (one a corporeal, and one a non-corporeal source) Like the matter has evolved a bit and then hits a brick wall until a force acts on it. Personally, I think there is a non-corporeal force that acts, but not from without, it is part of the very nature of matter - down to the smallest part and up thru universes. That view argues for a self evolving, or self actualizing universe, humans included.

    If you see matter as separate from god then god needs to manage evolution. And I know that sometimes christian theology says that matter is completely inert and needs divine intervention (see Michaelangelo's god creates adam) but there is some theological debate as to how much and how often intervention is needed.

    These issues have been actively discussed in circles that you would probably describe as left. This is essentially included in the "progress" debates of modernism vs. postmodernism. When the issue gets into science and then into politics it degrades. oops, sorry for the rambling.

    Parent

    Jondee, you are showing (none / 0) (#96)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed May 19, 2010 at 11:18:50 PM EST
    that you are not intelligent enough to understand  that species do evolve and this has been shown...BUT

    .... No one has proven that NEW species have been created through evolution.

    Therefor both are a matter of faith.

    Kinda like all that faith back in the late 70's that we were entering into a global cooling period in which we would have food shortages and millions die.....

    Pardon me but I am ROFLMAO. At you.

    Parent

    Say a prayer for me, Pastor Jim (none / 0) (#98)
    by jondee on Wed May 19, 2010 at 11:22:07 PM EST
    You also might want (none / 0) (#102)
    by jondee on Wed May 19, 2010 at 11:56:12 PM EST
    to look into what people in that secular-humanist field of genetics have to say about why so many different species are closely related genetically and others aren't.

    Parent
    Jondee (none / 0) (#109)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu May 20, 2010 at 06:36:30 AM EST
    You're stuttering. Don't get spittle on yourself. Very uncool.

    BTW - "Closely related" is a qualifier. Call me when it is no longer needed.

    Parent

    Jim (none / 0) (#125)
    by jondee on Thu May 20, 2010 at 12:35:40 PM EST
    What's left of your cortex is stuttering. Back and forth between Revelations and whatever Hannity said last night.

    One name: of one evolutionary biologist you know of.
    And the no Dr Jones-the-biologist from Bob Jones U, please.

    Parent

    Glad to see you have stopped (none / 0) (#130)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu May 20, 2010 at 12:55:08 PM EST
    stuttering.

    Now, when you gonna provide some proof for all these claims?

    Parent

    ONE evolutionary biologist (none / 0) (#138)
    by jondee on Thu May 20, 2010 at 01:22:04 PM EST
    (who dosnt have a talk radio show), out of those "many, many, many" people. Dont be shy.

    Parent
    Unfortunately he has not proved anything. (none / 0) (#145)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu May 20, 2010 at 02:54:31 PM EST
    Crickets.. (none / 0) (#149)
    by jondee on Thu May 20, 2010 at 03:38:52 PM EST
    Or should I say locusts..

    Parent
    Oh noies (none / 0) (#132)
    by MKS on Thu May 20, 2010 at 12:59:30 PM EST
    Really?  You do not accept Evolution?

    The Earth is really 6,000 thousand years old?

    But this does explain a lot.  My theory is that what fuels most conservatives is at bottom all about religion.  Conservatives learn the truth in Sunday School and just use facts as useful tools in argument...but if those facts don't work, then they discard then.

    This is also why arguing with most conservatives is fruitless:  They will not accept as facts anything that contradicts their faith.....

     

    Parent

    First of all I see that you still think (none / 0) (#147)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu May 20, 2010 at 03:18:21 PM EST
    of me as a conservative. I am a classic social liberal and have so commented time and again on women's rights, gay rights, etc.

    I, and many others, view the Old Testament as a historical type document that quantifies the history of the Jews and their beliefs.

    And yes, I believe that God created heaven and earth and all else in 6 days.... He just didn't tell us the length of his days. Each moment may have been a million years. We just don't know.

    So IF someone finally proves that a NEW species was created through evolution I see that as just another brick in the wall and will be happy to accept it.

    But no one has. All we have is conjecture and theories.

    I would be just as happy to accept proof that God used ID, for lack of a better term.

    For me, and many like me, it is the knowledge that He did, not HOW he did, that is important.

    I think it would be helpful if you try applying a bit of open mindedness and tolerance.

    It is a liberal kinda thing.

    Parent

    You may be socially liberal (5.00 / 1) (#159)
    by MKS on Thu May 20, 2010 at 04:13:35 PM EST
    but you certainly do not sound like it....Bashing "lefties" at every turn.  But I suppose inside that Rush Limbaugh rhetoric a liberal exists(?)

    And why even bring up evolution in a poltical context?  It is a scientific issue.  Those who bring it up as a political issue are motivated by religious goals....  

    Parent

    I would agree with MKS (5.00 / 1) (#160)
    by ZtoA on Thu May 20, 2010 at 04:22:46 PM EST
    that evolution in a political context is neither science nor is it good theology. And, Jim, you spend a lot of time name calling and insulting which does not shine a glow on the religion you promote.

    Parent
    Woman's rights and gay right's (none / 0) (#148)
    by jondee on Thu May 20, 2010 at 03:33:02 PM EST
    in Iran, or any other country on the neocon hit list..

    Other than that, I havn't seen any commenting on women's rights or gay rights. Certainly none during the reign of faith-based bigotry ie, the Bush Administration.

    Parent

    A lot of scientist say that the (none / 0) (#92)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed May 19, 2010 at 11:00:52 PM EST
    sun is the driver. Do some research.

    Parent
    I've asked you before (none / 0) (#99)
    by jondee on Wed May 19, 2010 at 11:25:23 PM EST
    and know you wont-cant give me a straight answer, but lets try again: Is there such a thing as a man made greenhouse gas?

    Parent
    Do you still beat your wife? (none / 0) (#110)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu May 20, 2010 at 06:51:19 AM EST
    The question is, does the production of man made "anything" cause global warming. (Note the "global.")

    Here is what one of the chief hoaxers had to say in an email he thought would never be seen by anyone but his buds.

    Another Jones' e-mail read, "I would like to see the climate change happen so the science could be proved right."

    Think about that statement.

    "I would like to see climate change happen..."

    That statement is just so terrible on many levels. First, this is a man who claims that climate change is happening around us.

    Indeed so fast that we must not hesitate or put down the cup but drink the kool aid immediately. Yet in the privacy of what he thought would always be a confidential email he says....

    "I would like to see climate change happen..."

    That means that he knows that his claims are incorrect.

    But even worse, just think. Man made global warming is supposed to unleash floods and droughts and death and destruction... Yet he says,

    "I would like to see climate change happen..."

    That is just plain evil. Not just dishonest, but evil.

    And what is the reason for this wish? What is the motive?

    ".....so the science could be proved right."

    But wait. Jones and the other hoaxers claim consensus that the science is settled. That the science is "right."

    But again in what he thinks is a private conversation he admits that it hasn't been proven because if it had, he could not be wishing.

    Remember Jones' statement. You need no other argument for disbelieving  the fear mongers and hoaxers.

    Link

    Parent

    Well I don't beat my wife (none / 0) (#121)
    by ZtoA on Thu May 20, 2010 at 10:48:11 AM EST
    and I don't even get what you mean by that stupid question.

    Yes, I will agree with you that those scientists were terrible. And if they'd worked for me I'd fire them then fire myself for allowing such an unscientific environment to develop without oversight. They were working with political advocacy and not science. A human failing which should be called out.

    And I will say that global warming is not caused ONLY by human activity. The sun theory you mention about why there is global warming measured on every planet out to a moon of Neptune (don't know if they can measure after that) has been discredited to a large extent. Another theory is that the solar system is passing thru some sort of magnetic field. It is possible I guess.

    Nonetheless, human pollution is a major factor in the earth's climate. And looking at the gulf disaster I'd say one reason human pollution is dangerous is that the substances human release into the atmosphere are never found there naturally. In the gulf, not only is oil present but now deoderized kerosene which acts on the oil and makes the oil behave in very non-oil ways (breaking it up and changing its buoyancy).

    Jim, humans really need to be careful about not despoiling our sandbox.

    Parent

    The comment was to Jondee (none / 0) (#126)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu May 20, 2010 at 12:48:49 PM EST
    And no, the theory that the sun is controlling global climate has not been discredited.

    The sun does create a magnetic field that surrounds the earth. It becomes weaker/stronger with fewer/more sun spots. The weaker it becomes the greater the number of cosmic rays hit the earth causing more clouds which reduces temperature.. Climate temp vs sun activity has been correlated.

    Human activity can change LOCAL climate. This leads people to think that it can global climate. Not true. Carbon dioxide, in fact, in the atmosphere has not increased in the past (studied) 150 years....

    To assess whether the airborne fraction is indeed increasing, Wolfgang Knorr of the Department of Earth Sciences at the University of Bristol reanalyzed available atmospheric carbon dioxide and emissions data since 1850 and considers the uncertainties in the data.

    In contradiction to some recent studies, he finds that the airborne fraction of carbon dioxide has not increased either during the past 150 years or during the most recent five decades.

    Link

    In the western world we have done a great job of cleaning up and protecting the environment. This was not done in the east (Soviet ruled) and is not now being done in Africa, ME, India, China and SA.

    It is a double edge sword. Technology provides the means to have a clean environment.

    Parent

    reply to Jim #126 (none / 0) (#144)
    by ZtoA on Thu May 20, 2010 at 02:37:30 PM EST

    The radiation output of the Sun does fluctuate over the course of its 11-year solar cycle. But the change is only about one-tenth of 1 percent--not substantial enough to affect Earth's climate in dramatic ways, and certainly not enough to be the sole culprit of our planet's current warming trend, scientists say.
    ...
    Solar activity continues to be one of the last bastions of contrarians," Mann said. "People who don't accept the existence of anthropogenic climate change still try to point to solar activity."
    ...
    This is not to say that solar fluctuations never influence Earth's climate in substantial ways. During a 75-year period beginning in 1645, astronomers detected almost no sunspot activity on the Sun. Called the "Maunder Minimum," this event coincided with the coldest part of the Little Ice Age, a 350-year cold spell that gripped much of Europe and North America.

    Recent studies have cast doubt on this relationship, however. New estimates of the total change in the brightness of the Sun during the Maunder Minimum suggest it was only fractions of a percent, and perhaps not enough to create the global cooling commonly attributed to it.

    "The situation is pretty ambiguous," said David Rind, a senior climate researcher at NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies, who has modeled the Maunder Minimum.

    Based on current estimates, even if another Maunder Minimum were to occur, it might result in an average temperature decrease of about 2 degrees Fahrenheit, Rind said.

    This would still not be enough to counteract warming of between 2 to 12 degrees Fahrenheit from greenhouse gases by 2100, as predicted by the latest Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) report.


    link

    my bold. Really Jim I had not known that political conservatives (like you) are hawking the solar theory. What for too? In order to be able to pollute and soil our air and water even more?? The ones I know who are into the solar theory - and the solar system going thru a magnetic field - are sort of wacky 2012 alarmists. Are you one of those?

    Parent

    sigh.... (none / 0) (#150)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu May 20, 2010 at 03:43:58 PM EST
    You obviously haven't been around very long or you would know that I am a social liberal and have taken those positions on this site since 2003.

    However, political positions have nothing to do with scientific belief. My background was aviation and engineering before I moved into product management and sales and I have seen nothing that would make me believe what I originally did, that man can cause global warming.

    I changed my mind years ago when the "hockey stick" was proven false. And I haven't the vaguest about if the sun is the driver, but it makes as much sense as telling us that carbon dioxide is the cause and then we find out it has not increased in 150 years and then reading what Phil Jones wrote...

    As I left my engineering job I moved into product management. As one, I controlled the R&D money for various products. Much to my surprise I discovered that R&D people would tell you what they thought you wanted to hear to keep their projects funded. I see the same thing here. Plus, we have a huge political organization that is trying to use the issue to take control for a variety of reasons. So they lie and fund only those they think will tell them what they want to hear.

    What we need is someone with no axe to grind to throw out all the bad data and start over using strictly scientific methods.

    Parent

    Fine (none / 0) (#154)
    by ZtoA on Thu May 20, 2010 at 03:49:14 PM EST
    BTW I am not unsympathetic with your ideas as expressed in comment #150.

    Parent
    i've been around here almost (none / 0) (#162)
    by jondee on Thu May 20, 2010 at 06:05:22 PM EST
    as long as you have and all I "know" about you being a social liberal is that you claim to be one three or four times a week (or day).

    Parent
    Yeah (none / 0) (#163)
    by squeaky on Thu May 20, 2010 at 06:15:59 PM EST
    Like people who feel the need to tell you how honest they are all the time. Usually a tip off.  

    Parent
    Yes... all conservatives (none / 0) (#178)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu May 20, 2010 at 07:59:35 PM EST
    support gay marriage, women's right to choose, drug law rationalization, etc., etc.....

    ROFLMAO at you two.

    Parent

    Yes and people "for" those (none / 0) (#185)
    by jondee on Thu May 20, 2010 at 08:52:46 PM EST
    things, quite often shill continually for the people MOST against those things..

    It's more common than you think..lol

    My theory is the "social liberal" b.s is for trolling credentials at the site.

    Parent

    Sigh.. (none / 0) (#186)
    by jondee on Fri May 21, 2010 at 12:16:55 AM EST
    "Political positions have nothing to do with scientific belief."

    Unless it's "a huge political organization that is trying to use the issue to take control for a variety of reasons": then political positions have EVERYTHING to do scientific "belief."  

    The implication being of course, that it's only environmentalists who politicize science ("to take control"): NOT those who believe in industry self-regulation; want to teach faith-based science; believe human life begins at conception etc etc

    Im still waiting to hear though, who or what this huge organization trying to take control is..Freemasons, communists, The World Wildlife Federation and the ACLU working in concert with the U.N? Who is it, Jim?

     

    Parent

    That was a Fox NASCAR (none / 0) (#141)
    by jondee on Thu May 20, 2010 at 02:17:36 PM EST
    segment, and the son they were referring to was Earnhart Jr..Other than that, you're dead on..

    Parent
    Oh Jondee (none / 0) (#156)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu May 20, 2010 at 03:54:31 PM EST
    You are just soooooooooooooo smart.

    ROFLMAO

    Parent

    Jim (none / 0) (#124)
    by ZtoA on Thu May 20, 2010 at 10:57:30 AM EST
    your bubble climate change has nothing to do with man cleaning up the environment.

    Are you saying that women should clean up our environment? :(  

    Let's agree that some can clean up (for everyone) and you can pray, and some can make sacrificial offerings and others can do some chants. I won't stop you from praying or chanting, not sure about the sacrificial offerings. Just don't dirty up wherever someone cleans - or insist that you can make whatever mess where ever you want -  OK?

    Parent

    Why would you think (none / 0) (#127)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu May 20, 2010 at 12:51:16 PM EST
    that I would be praying or chanting or sacrificing regarding anything.

    Your comment is insulting and reveals a huge ignorance of my beliefs and of Christianity.

    Parent

    All those soldiers (none / 0) (#129)
    by jondee on Thu May 20, 2010 at 12:54:32 PM EST
    the chickenhawks always want to send out at the drop of a hat are the sacrifice. Pleasing to Moloch.

    Parent
    Yah, PPJ aint no Savage (none / 0) (#133)
    by squeaky on Thu May 20, 2010 at 01:03:29 PM EST
    Although, his God is bigger than your god... no doubt.

     

    Parent

    Like the song says: (none / 0) (#139)
    by jondee on Thu May 20, 2010 at 01:23:56 PM EST
    It aint the meat it's the motion..

    Parent
    did not mean to insult you (none / 0) (#152)
    by ZtoA on Thu May 20, 2010 at 03:46:22 PM EST
    or your religion. Actually I did not know you represent christianity. But you and christians are not the only humans or the only religion and some of them DO chant, or pray, and some DO make offerings. You, as a christian, are welcome to do anything you want to help.

    Parent
    Global warming? Here's Dr. Konrad Steffen... (none / 0) (#87)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Wed May 19, 2010 at 09:58:56 PM EST
    He's the ongoing Director of the Cooperative Institute for Research in Environmental Sciences (CIRES), at the University of Colorado. He's done extensive research on the Greenland Ice Sheet since his research station, Swiss Camp, was built there in 1990. He worked with NASA on the Program for Arctic Regional Climate and corroborated his findings with satellite observations collected since 1979.

    Here's an interview with Dr. Steffen, from 2008. Among many other things, he offered this astounding irrefutable fact:

    For the time period 1990 to the present, we had about a 8.1°F temperature increase (4.5°C) at the station we call Swiss Camp, which is 70° north, western slope, 1,100 meters above sea level, close to the town Ilulissat.

    I remember when that made the news in a big way a few years ago, probably 2005. There were TV reporters scrambling around the ice sheet sticking mics in Steffen's face. This was before Gore's "Inconvenient Truth". Thereafter, coverage of climate change took a nose dive.

    Within a bigger picture of global warming, Steffen documents how the Greenland Ice Sheet is melting fast and how lubrication from the melt is moving ice off the land and into the water thus contributing, double-fold, to rising sea levels. The Greenland Ice Sheet (660,235 sq mi) is the second largest ice body in the World, after the Antarctic Ice Sheet -- which is also melting as we speak.


    Parent

    heh (none / 0) (#93)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed May 19, 2010 at 11:05:05 PM EST
    Ice levels had been tracking lower throughout much of 2008, but rapidly recovered in the last quarter. In fact, the rate of increase from September onward is the fastest rate of change on record, either upwards or downwards.

    The data is being reported by the University of Illinois's Arctic Climate Research Center, and is derived from satellite observations of the Northern and Southern hemisphere polar regions.

    Link

    Parent

    Oh, just fade away and radiate while (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Thu May 20, 2010 at 12:02:21 AM EST
    I cry over the Louisiana Wetlands. WTF are you doing here anyway, Jimrod -- that's a biblical reference. Warning: my link is to Wikipedia rather than the bibble (my phonetic spelling for how I actually say it).

    Parent
    jimakaPPJ , you're SPAMMING us... (5.00 / 1) (#104)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Thu May 20, 2010 at 12:13:45 AM EST
    Some of us do r-e-a-d you know. The internal links within your global warming denial story both turn up as IBM ads. At least on my browser.

    I hope you haven't given me a virus.

    Parent

    Nonsense (none / 0) (#111)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu May 20, 2010 at 06:56:41 AM EST
    The link is and ad for an IBM data collection program and has nothing to do with the subject. You have to be smart enough to know that.

    Or else you think the University of Illinois is part of IBM...

    Come to think of it, yes, you probably do.

    Parent

    YOUR DATA LINKS CONTAIN NO DATA! (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Thu May 20, 2010 at 02:24:00 PM EST
    Deal with it Nimrod.

    Parent
    That was for JimakaPPJ. (none / 0) (#143)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Thu May 20, 2010 at 02:29:44 PM EST
    Bogus Links? (none / 0) (#146)
    by squeaky on Thu May 20, 2010 at 03:12:11 PM EST
    Yes, that is our ppj.

    The reason there are no links is that this discredited BS was circulated around the conservative blogosphere via Malkin, Limbaugh, Instapundit, etc.  The wingnut echo chamber is usually where ppj gets his facts, and he dutifully passes this crap along..

    Here is the quote listing its sources, and its corrections.

    Conservatives vs NASA on Global Warming (Update II)
    by chapter1


    Parent

    That's it (none / 0) (#151)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu May 20, 2010 at 03:45:36 PM EST
    We can't trust that ole heathen University of Illinois!

    Parent
    WHO (none / 0) (#158)
    by jondee on Thu May 20, 2010 at 04:08:48 PM EST
    precisely, at "the University of Illinois"?

    Parent
    Why don't you do an investigation (none / 0) (#176)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu May 20, 2010 at 07:56:25 PM EST
    and expose the University? Look what happened at East Anglia.

    Parent
    Are you really that dim (none / 0) (#105)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu May 20, 2010 at 12:37:57 AM EST
    as to think that change one way or another over the course of a couple of months has any bearing on this whatsoever?

    Parent
    Anecdotal vs anecdotal (none / 0) (#112)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu May 20, 2010 at 07:23:03 AM EST
    is what I did. Now let's look at what Dr. Phil Jones of East Anglia University and one of the chief hoaxers has been forced to admit. From this interview on BBC.

    B - Do you agree that from 1995 to the present there has been no statistically-significant global warming

    Yes, but only just. I also calculated the trend for the period 1995 to 2009. This trend (0.12C per decade) is positive, but not significant at the 95% significance level.

    Link

    There's other information.

    Dr. Kenneth Tapping is worried about the sun. Solar activity comes in regular cycles, but the latest one is refusing to start. Sunspots have all but vanished, and activity is suspiciously quiet. The last time this happened was 400 years ago -- and it signaled a solar event known as a "Maunder Minimum,"  along with the start of what we now call the "Little Ice Age."

    Tapping, a solar researcher and project director for Canada's National Research Council, says it may be happening again. Overseeing a giant radio telescope he calls a "stethoscope for the sun," Tapping says, if the pattern doesn't change quickly, the earth is in for some very chilly weather.

    snip

    Researcher Dr. Timothy Patterson, director of the Geoscience Center at Carleton University, shares the concern. Patterson is finding "excellent correlations" between solar fluctuations, a relationship that historically, he says doesn't exist between CO2 and past climate changes. According to Patterson. we shouldn't be surprised by a solar link. "The sun [is] the ultimate source of energy on this planet," he says.

    Such research dates back to 1991, when the Danish Meteorological Institute released a study showing that world temperatures over the past several centuries correlated very closely with solar cycles. A 2004 study by the Max Planck Institute found a similar correlation, but concluded the timing was only coincidental, as the solar variance seemed too small to explain temperature changes.

    Link

    Parent

    Also could affect insurance (none / 0) (#39)
    by ZtoA on Wed May 19, 2010 at 06:41:45 PM EST
    Already this year catastrophes such as the Chilean earthquake and the oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico, combined with low investment returns and weakening rates, will have a "very significant" impact on the insurance industry.

    Several insurers, including Amlin, the largest group in Lloyd's, have warned that the oil rig disaster will raise premiums. Much of the losses will end up being paid by reinsurance companies, which cover the losses made by direct insurers - triggering reinsurance price hikes that will be passed back to the insurers, who may then pass them on to clients.

    link

    Parent

    Overinsured rig (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by waldenpond on Wed May 19, 2010 at 07:28:31 PM EST
    Transocean made a large profit on the loss of it's rig by overinsuring it (score!).  So of course the insurer will have to up rates to recoup those overpayments.

    Parent
    BP was drilling in a mine field - literally. (5.00 / 2) (#107)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Thu May 20, 2010 at 12:50:13 AM EST
    I've heard this from a number of sources. I'm linking to Surburban Guerrilla (Crooks and Liars also carried the story): BP Was Drilling In A Mine Field! Gulf of Mexico Is Primary Dumping Ground For Unexploded Military Munitions:
    over 30 million pounds of bombs, projectiles and chemical ordnance. Many of these bombs are unstable. Just about anything could detonate them - say, an oil rig that's digging deeper than what owners noted on their permit application. So we're leasing offshore drilling rights to oil companies IN A FRICKIN' MINE FIELD.

    There is technology available to carefully map underwater hazards like UXO but so far, I haven't found anything that indicates offshore drilling lessees are required to do so. I have to assume that a company will try to protect their investment, but you never know.

    Transocean knew exactly what they were doing when they over-insured the rig. Lambert also made this point at Corrente.

    Parent

    that's interesting (none / 0) (#55)
    by ZtoA on Wed May 19, 2010 at 07:40:24 PM EST
    and doesn't Lloyds (who insures BP) have to pay all damages like losses to the fishing industry? Depending on the courts that could add up - for the insurer. Do you know if BP is covering its a$$ by overinsuring?

    I could be wrong (this whole area is confusing) but if the well is not capped very soon then there could be some real damage done to the gulf.

    Parent

    Overinsure unknowns? (none / 0) (#68)
    by waldenpond on Wed May 19, 2010 at 08:35:23 PM EST
    It's easy to value a rig, equipment, labor for direct clean-up, lost wages.... but lives lost and environmental damage will only be defined through the courts.  Transocean has 1.6 billion in insurance but who knows what that covers.  I have no idea how much insurance BP has.

    Parent
    Airlines do this all the time. (none / 0) (#79)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed May 19, 2010 at 09:01:10 PM EST
    My pleasure Z. Here are more BP links... (none / 0) (#69)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Wed May 19, 2010 at 08:40:29 PM EST
    So far, I've slogged through 250 headlines at EcoEarth -- nearly all of it from MSM sources -- still a lot more to go. I scanned the stories that I hadn't come across before. I haven't found anything overly "eureka" in there yet.

    I'm looking for a site that's a clearing house for stuff that's more alternative -- i.e. stuff that provides a more biting, reality-based analysis and critique of the whole schmear. Here's the slim picking I've found to date:

    *dandelionsalad (Below the Surface of Oil Hemorrhage). This site looks really good at first blush. It's got reams and reams of hot linkage to a range of stories and other sites/organizations/groups that are covering the spill.

    *Corrente (BP Oil Spill Link), imo, is doing a pretty damn amazing job of writing about it themselves and linking to sources.

    *Fishgrease (Dkos diarist). I'm still pimping his diaries on "fu@king proper fu@king booming".

    QUESTION: to all, are any of our better known prog blogs giving the spill any significant amount of space?  

    Parent

    Please know that I also appreciate (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by Cream City on Wed May 19, 2010 at 09:01:43 PM EST
    and read all that you (and some others) send on this.

    I haven't replied only because I simply cannot find words.  I love the lovely Gulf lands -- and waters, and the critters and coral therein.  I could cry.

    Parent

    OMFG, the oil is in the Louisiana Wetlands (5.00 / 2) (#89)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Wed May 19, 2010 at 10:13:26 PM EST
    Breaking news from the AP, via HuffPo, BLANKET OF OIL SMOTHERS LOUISIANA WETLANDS [their caps]; 'This Was The Day Everybody Was Worried About,' Says Governor:
    Jindal and Nungesser said they are awaiting approval from the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers for an emergency dredging permit to dredge sand from nearby areas for the construction of a line of sand berms-in effect, a series of new barrier islands-40 miles on either side of the river. The berms would block the oil, they said, and the new, man-made beaches would be much easier to clean than the marshes that teem with plant life.

    Neither official was certain what was holding up approval of the proposed dredging project. A telephone call to the Corps for comment was not immediately returned.


     

    Parent
    McClatchy is Good too (5.00 / 2) (#90)
    by squeaky on Wed May 19, 2010 at 10:38:34 PM EST
    Yes, McClatchy got it right on WMD and (5.00 / 3) (#101)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Wed May 19, 2010 at 11:51:00 PM EST
    it's been fairly up-front about the spill. Here are a few of the best from McClatchy:

    BP has a long record of legal, ethical violations, Saturday, May 08/10.

    U.S. agency lets oil industry write offshore drilling rules, Monday, May 10/10.

    Obama talks tough on oil spill, but avoids taking hands-on role, Friday, May 14/10.

    BP withholds oil spill facts -- and government lets it, Tuesday, May 18/10.

    Gulf oil spill may be 19 times bigger than originally thought, Wednesday, May 19/10, (h/t Squeaky).

    I want to see the headline where it says Obama, and Administration officials, used BP estimates to convey the message that the Gulf spill was 19 times smaller than it is.

    Parent

    good links, really appreciate the info (none / 0) (#76)
    by ZtoA on Wed May 19, 2010 at 08:56:58 PM EST
    I combed thru EcoEarth too and some science sites. Learned a lot from Fishgrease, so I'll revisit to see what he thinks of corn cobs(which are very oil absorbent and the cobs float and spin too making them very useful -- IF the oil is on the surface). The gulf is so beautiful.

    Parent
    More on immigration (5.00 / 3) (#40)
    by lilburro on Wed May 19, 2010 at 06:48:01 PM EST
    a 7 year old kid asks Michelle Obama today about her mom.  Read and watch video at  Jezebel.

    I was going to come up with something a little more clever, but F*CK ARIZONA.

    Nothing like planting a kid (1.00 / 0) (#82)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed May 19, 2010 at 09:04:29 PM EST
    to shill for you. And this is not new for Demos to do.

    Parent
    Like This? (none / 0) (#85)
    by squeaky on Wed May 19, 2010 at 09:45:52 PM EST
    I think you are smart enough to understand (none / 0) (#91)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed May 19, 2010 at 10:59:45 PM EST
    the difference between having a nominee show up with their family and planting questions in a child's mouth.

    So knock off the nonsense.

    Parent

    Sure (none / 0) (#94)
    by squeaky on Wed May 19, 2010 at 11:08:17 PM EST
    Roberts just decided that parading his wife and kids during his SC nomination hearings was only so that the Senators and American Public would know what a good SC Judge Roberts would make...

    Parent
    Oh right (none / 0) (#114)
    by lilburro on Thu May 20, 2010 at 07:50:52 AM EST
    that's TOTALLY what happened.  

    Of course even if it was a plant, which I do not believe for a number of reasons that you can read further about by checking out the comments of the thread I linked to, it doesn't change the fact that that conversation is absolutely happening all over the country.

    Parent

    You have no facts to support (none / 0) (#135)
    by MKS on Thu May 20, 2010 at 01:08:47 PM EST
    such an accusation.  

    This is just like Limbaugh saying that the explosion on the Deep Sea Horizon was caused by environmentalists....

    Objective reality, facts, mean not much to some....The Bible tells us all the truth we need, and we can just make up the rest.....  

    Parent

    This will infuriate you further: (none / 0) (#49)
    by oculus on Wed May 19, 2010 at 07:06:35 PM EST
    {me too)

    Tahoe Bonanza

    Author's CV is at end of op ed.

    Parent

    quote (none / 0) (#50)
    by lilburro on Wed May 19, 2010 at 07:19:02 PM EST
    saying it has reduced crime and neighborhood complaints and reduced the number of immigrants using county services such as public schools. [blockquote]

    "Hooray."  Guess who the first to b*tch about paying for remedial classes for frightened out of their mind formerly illegal immigrants will be?

    Parent

    there is a little bit of everything (none / 0) (#51)
    by ruffian on Wed May 19, 2010 at 07:23:03 PM EST
    in that one. Including a purely gratuitous Al Capp calling protesters SWINE reference. Has anyone ever thought of Forest Gump and Lil Abner in the same breath? I know I haven't.

    And continuing to the (faux)lack of understanding of why blacks would distrust police enforcing immigration laws as much as Hispanics. No racial profiling allowed here, see? The law says so!

    Infuriating indeed.

    Parent

    "Hordes" of people (none / 0) (#136)
    by MKS on Thu May 20, 2010 at 01:11:36 PM EST
    I stopped reading when he called the Latino protestors "hordes" of people....

    Is the GOP that tone deaf that they do not know how they sound?

    Parent

    WTF is wrong with us... (none / 0) (#116)
    by kdog on Thu May 20, 2010 at 08:06:41 AM EST
    the fright in that little girl's voice...thinking the people in grey are gonna take momma away...and it's a real fear, it happens.  

    WTF is wrong with us...seriously.

    Parent

    You are being had (none / 0) (#128)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu May 20, 2010 at 12:52:46 PM EST
    kdog. Really.

    Parent
    More Like You are the One Scamming a Con (5.00 / 0) (#131)
    by squeaky on Thu May 20, 2010 at 12:56:45 PM EST
    According to a report by the Inspector General's Office of DHS, at least 108,434 undocumented parents of US citizen children were removed from the US between 1998 and 2007.  This number is likely to be underreported, but still indicates that this is an issue even according to DHS.  Once children are separated from their immigrant parents, it can be difficult for those parents to get their children back.  They may not be able to pursue a custody case before removal from the United States, especially if parents are detained in a different state.  If immigrant parents are able to pursue a custody case, their deportation may hinder their case.

    link

    Parent

    Glad to see someone is doing their (none / 0) (#153)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu May 20, 2010 at 03:48:08 PM EST
    job.

    What if the kid was a US citizen and her mother had been convicted of murder and was going to jail for 20 years.....

    Should we let her stay out of jail because she has a daughter???

    Parent

    We're all being had Jim... (none / 0) (#134)
    by kdog on Thu May 20, 2010 at 01:04:40 PM EST
    you, me, and especially that little girl.

    Parent
    Porve it....Show me the facts that (none / 0) (#137)
    by MKS on Thu May 20, 2010 at 01:12:16 PM EST
    support this accusation....

    Parent
    Oh no, Jim's right (none / 0) (#140)
    by lilburro on Thu May 20, 2010 at 01:41:38 PM EST
    there's not a single person, not a single person, especially in Arizona, who feels this way, at all.  Not a single frightened child.  Where do the "Demos" get this stuff???

    Parent
    Remember the insurance (none / 0) (#155)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu May 20, 2010 at 03:49:28 PM EST
    bit?

    Also, see my comment 153.

    Parent

    No facts (none / 0) (#157)
    by MKS on Thu May 20, 2010 at 04:06:17 PM EST
    Just rhetoric.....

    I am disappointed that you want this girl's mom deported....Jesus was for deportation of parents without papers....I read it in the Bible somewhere....really....

    Parent

    I was refering to the children's insurance (none / 0) (#161)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu May 20, 2010 at 05:38:03 PM EST
    bit... about two years the proponents brought out a family, etc., etc. Think a bit, it will come.

    And to short cut future snarks, I ain't Jesus. Also remember, Render unto Caesar.

    Let me repeat.

    If the girl's mother was going to prison for murder, would you want her set free so she could be with her child?

    Parents have responsibilities. One of them is to not get themselves into situations that will result in them being separated.

    Parent

    Being undocumented=murder? (5.00 / 1) (#164)
    by MKS on Thu May 20, 2010 at 06:46:10 PM EST
    You've got to know how offensive and inappropirate that is....

    The way you guys talk about immigration just amazes me.  The tone and attitude seems calibrated to offend as much as possible.   But I should simply let you charge on without comment......

    Parent

    Yup (5.00 / 0) (#168)
    by squeaky on Thu May 20, 2010 at 07:44:10 PM EST
    Our ppj has a real contempt for furriners, particularly Mexicans and Muslims.

    THey all may as well be murderers as far as he is concerned.

    Parent

    I'm still waiting for his liberal soul (none / 0) (#172)
    by MKS on Thu May 20, 2010 at 07:50:50 PM EST
    to shine through.....

    Think it will be awhile?

    Parent

    Why don't you do some research (none / 0) (#182)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu May 20, 2010 at 08:03:54 PM EST
    instead of showing your hubris again about what you don't know????

    Parent
    Then you amaze easily. (none / 0) (#167)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu May 20, 2010 at 07:42:42 PM EST
    I see no reason to accept undocumented workers at the expense of our own workers.

    If that be harsh, so be it.

    Parent

    "harsh"? (none / 0) (#169)
    by MKS on Thu May 20, 2010 at 07:47:37 PM EST
    How about inaccurate?  The comparison to murder....

    Oh well, carry on....It will be very interesting to see how many Latinos are voting for Republicans in a few years.....

    Parent

    If you give away the country (none / 0) (#173)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu May 20, 2010 at 07:51:19 PM EST
    to elect yourself, what are you?

    Parent
    "giveaway"--huh? (none / 0) (#177)
    by MKS on Thu May 20, 2010 at 07:57:53 PM EST
    As far as I can tell, Latino immigrants aren't asking for "giveaways" or handouts....

    I am sure there will be many fossilized Republicans patting themselves on the back for their principled stand against the brown people.  I think all three or four of them will get together for reunions.....

    Parent

    I am referring to the (none / 0) (#180)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu May 20, 2010 at 08:02:47 PM EST
    de facto open borders policy you obviously
    support.

    Did you not understand that?

    Parent

    Okay, I'll trot out the (none / 0) (#188)
    by MKS on Fri May 21, 2010 at 02:12:37 PM EST
    denial once more of my being for Open Borders.....I thought about not even responding, but just to make sure, I deny it again....

    But of course, you will tell me that if I'm not in favor of deporting that little girl's mom, I'm for Open Borders.....

    Parent

    Open Borders (none / 0) (#190)
    by jondee on Fri May 21, 2010 at 02:15:47 PM EST
    But, it fits so well on a poorly thought out, right wing bumpersticker!

    Parent
    Oh good grief (none / 0) (#174)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu May 20, 2010 at 07:54:36 PM EST
    The point was what if she was going away... the reason makes no difference. You know that so why the cheap debating trick??

    Parent
    It's hopeless (none / 0) (#179)
    by MKS on Thu May 20, 2010 at 08:01:41 PM EST
    Ay Dios Mio!

    I give up....

    So how about those Lakers!

    Parent

    It's all part of some (none / 0) (#181)
    by jondee on Thu May 20, 2010 at 08:03:42 PM EST
    grand scheme to get Democratic votes, eh Jim?

    And here I was thinking some of those crocodile tears over the plight of the American worker actually pertained to the plight of the American worker..

    Parent

    You're the one who wants to (none / 0) (#183)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu May 20, 2010 at 08:11:55 PM EST
    let in undocumented workers to take the jobs away from American workers.

    Like it or not that is the result of your policy.

    And to think that Demos use to be the party of the working man.

    heh

    Parent

    Exactly what jobs are they (none / 0) (#184)
    by jondee on Thu May 20, 2010 at 08:34:06 PM EST
    "taking away"? All those fruit picking jobs formally held by disgruntled Teabaggers?

    And, aren't you the guy who's been revering every thought and deed of the deregulation-or-death folk here for the last several years? How many jobs have your heroes shipped out of the country?

    Parent

    Why don't you show us a link (none / 0) (#187)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri May 21, 2010 at 02:10:51 PM EST
    regarding deregulation?

    And you can snark all you like but your position is that you want to allow illegal immigrants to come into the country and take jobs from American citizens.

    That be facts.

    Parent

    Your heroes (none / 0) (#191)
    by jondee on Fri May 21, 2010 at 02:18:51 PM EST
    Shrub and Karl were opposed to deregulation?

    I just hope the playing dumb is just that, and not some undiagnosed form of mental dyslexia.

    Parent

    The fact is that you can't. (none / 0) (#192)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri May 21, 2010 at 11:00:10 PM EST
    You wouldnt know (none / 0) (#194)
    by jondee on Sat May 22, 2010 at 12:09:27 AM EST
    an honest fact if it waited till you passed overhead and lodged itself in your lower intestinal tract.

    Parent
    Come now Jondee (none / 0) (#195)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat May 22, 2010 at 08:30:41 PM EST
    show us some proof of your BS.

    You are embarrassing yourself.

    Parent

    jondee, Jim has given up (none / 0) (#189)
    by MKS on Fri May 21, 2010 at 02:15:10 PM EST
    "regulation" since the BP oil spill.....

    Republicans were always for environmental regulation, dontcha know....

    Parent

    And you try to act like you are (none / 0) (#193)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri May 21, 2010 at 11:01:16 PM EST
    a serious commentator.

    Looks like you are just another Jondee/Squeaky look alike.

    Parent

    Rending unto Caesar (none / 0) (#165)
    by jondee on Thu May 20, 2010 at 07:07:44 PM EST
    is one thing, bending over another..

    The girls mother isn't going to prison for murder, so throwing out that rotten red herring has less than nothing to do with the specific case under discussion.

    Parent

    I believe the word is "render" btw (none / 0) (#166)
    by jondee on Thu May 20, 2010 at 07:37:12 PM EST
    I like "rending" though (none / 0) (#170)
    by MKS on Thu May 20, 2010 at 07:49:26 PM EST
    A whole new meaning....A "tearing" away from and giving to Caeser...

    Parent
    Then change it to 10 years for (none / 0) (#171)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu May 20, 2010 at 07:50:10 PM EST
    robbery. Changes nothing.

    My point remains, and it is a very popular point outside the political and chattering class.

    1. Get control of the border. Close it so we get no more children crying about losing their mother.

    2. Give each one already here a green card if they can pass simple background check re criminal activities... lack thereof.

    3. Then we can figure out who and how many new immigrants we want.

    You know, do it like Mexico does.

    Parent
    Yeah (none / 0) (#175)
    by squeaky on Thu May 20, 2010 at 07:55:23 PM EST
    ....Then we can figure out who and how many new immigrants we want.
    Decide how many to keep, and do like the germans did give them all numbered tattoos, store them in camps, and use them as needed. Once the quota is reached drones on the border programed to shoot to kill...  Simple, efficient and republican.

    Parent
    Rand Paul and civil rights (5.00 / 2) (#66)
    by waldenpond on Wed May 19, 2010 at 08:23:14 PM EST
    Wait till you see this nut on Maddow.  Sheesh.  He thinks the 60s dealt with segregation of schools and transportation appropriately.... but private property rights are important.  He says bringing this up is a red herring as he has brought up no legislation and is personally against discrimination.  For someone like this to get elected in this day and age is disgusting.

    Rand Paul defines Libertarianism (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by christinep on Wed May 19, 2010 at 08:51:00 PM EST
    Some of the "let me do my own thing" and "lets keep out of involvements in other countries" can have an appeal to some individuals who distrust and dislike the perceived "heavy hand" of government. Peel back a layer or two and you see the old "me, mine, and more of mine" attitude that disavows any involvement with others that would take the libertarian's dollar (unless, as is the case with Doctor Rand Paul, it is federal subsidization of doctors.) My fond hope here is that his "I'm nobody's keeper" "Leave me alone" selfish arrogance is soon exposed for what it is. And, along with that exposure, maybe the surficially appealing call of this "philosophy" can be spelled out in all its ramifications for our society. Wonder about approaches to Social Security, economic assistance, agriculture, education, etc.? This could be an eye-opener.

    Parent
    Rand Paul... (none / 0) (#115)
    by kdog on Thu May 20, 2010 at 08:03:29 AM EST
    is no libertarian as far as I can tell, not even close...pro-immigration crackdown, pro-drug prohibition...he's a fraud.

    Parent
    He's not elected yet, right? (none / 0) (#73)
    by ruffian on Wed May 19, 2010 at 08:49:49 PM EST
    Let's hope for lots of TV appearances between now and November.

    Parent
    Go Pads. Beat L.A. (none / 0) (#1)
    by oculus on Wed May 19, 2010 at 05:18:09 PM EST


    Meanwhile, Hanley Ramirez (none / 0) (#2)
    by oculus on Wed May 19, 2010 at 05:31:11 PM EST
    is back in the Marlins' lineup at short stop.  What a relief!  Manager is a Mensch, as Ramirez sd., What does he know.  He never played in the bigs.  USA TODAY

    Parent
    No segue: continuing educ. course: (none / 0) (#3)
    by oculus on Wed May 19, 2010 at 05:34:53 PM EST
    Talk to Anyone, Anytime

    Take risks in communication at work or play.  Change your self-consciousness into spontaneity, and initiate conversations with new people.  Learn valuable tips to have more fun at social events.  2 weeks of once/week 3 hr. sessions.



    Parent
    They did it. 10-5. (none / 0) (#108)
    by oculus on Thu May 20, 2010 at 01:04:46 AM EST
    Was listening to CNN about the Bagram (none / 0) (#5)
    by Militarytracy on Wed May 19, 2010 at 05:41:41 PM EST
    attack.  The CNN associate said that the Taliban were able to strike at the heart of the military mission.  Can't imagine what she meant, the heart of Bagram is where the President is when he is there.  I think it is surrounded by three different perimeters.  These guys couldn't even make it through the first perimeter, and the attackers with the suicide vests were apparently "neutralized" before they could even get close.  I'm pretty certain that the perimeter...even the outer most perimeter of Bagram is no flimsy wimpy thing to breach and the heart of the mission, they weren't even remotely close.

    I heard a BBC correspondent on NPR (none / 0) (#10)
    by oculus on Wed May 19, 2010 at 05:50:46 PM EST
    yesterday.  She was out on patrol earlier in Marja.  Is now back in London.  She talked about U.S. troops certifying poppy farmers had destroyed their crops; certification leads to $$ from us.  On the other hand, she sd., Taliban came back after U.S. offensive to hit up the poppy farmers, as the Taliban's "take" finances their efforts in Afghanistan.  

    Parent
    I believe it (none / 0) (#64)
    by Militarytracy on Wed May 19, 2010 at 08:20:19 PM EST
    Not much of this is going to be simple.

    Parent
    How come the Celtics got so good (none / 0) (#19)
    by MKS on Wed May 19, 2010 at 06:05:35 PM EST
    recently?  They're even older now.....

    Chemistry, chemistry, chemistry... (none / 0) (#30)
    by Dadler on Wed May 19, 2010 at 06:26:06 PM EST
    Ray Allen is still, probably, the purest shooter in the league. Pierce isn't far behind, and Garnett's just a warrior. Rondo is on the verge of elevating his game to the next, and highest level, and they have bodies inside to bang around with.

    I have friends who were more worried about the Lakers meeting the Magic in the finals than the Celts, but I thought they were nuts. Boston is a tough team, very tough.  The NBA would love another Tinseltown/Beantown final. As would I.

    Parent

    Arizona Threatens LA Power Cutoff (none / 0) (#22)
    by squeaky on Wed May 19, 2010 at 06:08:38 PM EST
    If Los Angeles wants to boycott Arizona, it had better get used to reading by candlelight.

    That's the message from a member of Arizona's top government utilities agency, who threw down the gauntlet Tuesday in a letter to Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa by threatening to cut off the city's power supply as retribution.

    Faux News

    Actions have (none / 0) (#25)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed May 19, 2010 at 06:14:50 PM EST
    consequences....

    Pardon my laughter but it couldn't happen to a more deserving bunch.

    Parent

    And it wont happen (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by jondee on Wed May 19, 2010 at 08:33:52 PM EST
    so keep laughing..

    Meanwhile the 'thugs seem to be intent on slowly whittling their base of support down to some rag tag amalgam of the White Citizens Party and Focus on the (social liberal) Family.

    Parent

    Faux News? (none / 0) (#26)
    by squeaky on Wed May 19, 2010 at 06:19:50 PM EST
    And your point is that (none / 0) (#28)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed May 19, 2010 at 06:21:23 PM EST
    the info is not correct?

    Next thing I know you will be telling me the NYT didn't zapp a CT Demo...

    hahahahaa

    Parent

    Well (none / 0) (#31)
    by squeaky on Wed May 19, 2010 at 06:28:07 PM EST
    Considering that you are almost always too lazy to check links, I could tell you anything... lol

    Parent
    Click (none / 0) (#35)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed May 19, 2010 at 06:34:33 PM EST
    Link

    A member of Arizona's top government utilities agency threw down the gauntlet in a letter to Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa, threatening to cut off the city's power supply as retribution for the city's boycott of Arizona

    snip

    "I received your message; please receive mine. As a statewide elected member of the Arizona Corporation Commission overseeing Arizona's electric and water utilities, I too am keenly aware of the 'resources and ties' we share with the city of Los Angeles," Pierce wrote.

    "If an economic boycott is truly what you desire, I will be happy to encourage Arizona utilities to renegotiate your power agreements so Los Angeles no longer receives any power from Arizona-based generation."

    Link

    Parent

    Oh Well (5.00 / 0) (#37)
    by squeaky on Wed May 19, 2010 at 06:38:30 PM EST
    As usual the cliff notes version you read, do not tell the whole story.... Faux news sensationalizing does not make for wingnut party time:

    Pierce told FoxNews.com that he was speaking for himself, not the entire commission, though he has the support of at least one other member.

    Next time read the whole thing and you will look more educated.

    Parent

    And wouldn't AZ lose money (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by ruffian on Wed May 19, 2010 at 06:49:48 PM EST
    by not providing LA power? I'm thinking 'provide' means' sell' here.

    Nothing like boycotting yourself.

    Parent

    Good point, ruffian (none / 0) (#58)
    by christinep on Wed May 19, 2010 at 07:56:22 PM EST
    And that is Arizona's dilemma. Simply put, most of the money cards (or influence cards, as it were) are held by others.

    Parent
    How can they be so surprised at the reaction? (none / 0) (#61)
    by ruffian on Wed May 19, 2010 at 08:06:49 PM EST
    They just told their potential customers that there is a chance they will spend some time in jail if they happen to forget their birth documentation at home when they visit their fine state.

    Who could object?

    Parent

    Lose $$ Not (none / 0) (#77)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed May 19, 2010 at 08:58:41 PM EST
    Appearing to tap into local frustration in Arizona over the raft of boycotts and threatened boycotts from cities across the country, including Los Angeles, Pierce warned that Arizona companies are willing and ready to fight boycott with boycott.

    "I am confident that Arizona's utilities would be happy to take those electrons off your hands," Pierce wrote. "If, however, you find that the City Council lacks the strength of its convictions to turn off the lights in Los Angeles and boycott Arizona power, please reconsider the wisdom of attempting to harm Arizona's economy."

    Hard to say for sure but it appears that AZ utilities can cancel some daily purchases in favor of purchasing the newly available poiwer from AZ generators.

    There would be nothing unusual in this. Most utilities have long term contracts for X dollars worth of power and then buy some short term for flexibility.

    Parent

    Whistling past the graveyard, eh? (none / 0) (#72)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed May 19, 2010 at 08:45:42 PM EST
    That's where you guys (none / 0) (#74)
    by jondee on Wed May 19, 2010 at 08:50:52 PM EST
    are putting yourselves. Redundant as that may seem some.

    Parent
    Smells like abuse of office. (none / 0) (#43)
    by oculus on Wed May 19, 2010 at 06:51:08 PM EST
    Abuse of office (none / 0) (#62)
    by ZtoA on Wed May 19, 2010 at 08:07:50 PM EST
    by who?

    I have to admit that if CA attempts to economically damage AZ then AZ can do it right back. It is one of the limitations to a boycott. Too bad the issues are not being dealt with - I mean the core issues. The boycott (which I support, but not with eyes closed --and I might add I don't live in LA so its easy for me to say) adds a whole new level of issues. Issues like state's rights and states challenging the federal government to change. And it is not just about immigration - states have challenged the feds about issues like medical MJ and Oregon's dignity of death act, and CA's higher regulation of emissions.

    Parent

    The economic boycott & Arizona (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by christinep on Wed May 19, 2010 at 08:17:48 PM EST
    While I understand what you suggest about the mutual disadvantages attached to some boycotts--especially in an obviously mutually dependent situation--there is a peculiar advantage that a number of individuals and organizations not resident in Arizona have in this instance. Tourism (and related industry.) Perhaps some states rely on tourists/conventions/conferences from Arizona. Perhaps not. We can make an educated guess that Arizona does rely heavily on tourists/conventions/conferences and more from other states (and countries.)

    Parent
    Abuse of officer by a public utilities (none / 0) (#100)
    by oculus on Wed May 19, 2010 at 11:25:25 PM EST
    commissioner.

    Parent
    Yeah, I was wondering (none / 0) (#119)
    by ZtoA on Thu May 20, 2010 at 10:07:47 AM EST
    if there was something like this. All out warfare between states would not be legal and to deny LA power seems warlike. Of course it is a escalation of the boycott, which does call into question the effectiveness of a long term boycott. Not many good solutions here. Need the feds.

    Parent
    The people of Arizona do understand one thing (none / 0) (#45)
    by ruffian on Wed May 19, 2010 at 06:54:10 PM EST
    And that is that they can't enforce their bad laws with a huge budget deficit stsrig them in the face. They voted yesterday to raise sales taxes by 1% "temporarily".

    Yeah that tea party movement is coming on strong. Scared legislatures out of doing what needs to be done, but luckily some people aren't buying it.

    A real trooper (none / 0) (#59)
    by ruffian on Wed May 19, 2010 at 07:56:28 PM EST
    WH Chief of Protcol slips on her high heels on the WH steps while getting ready to greet Mexican president. Video at huffpost. To her credit she hops right back up and carries on.

    I watched a few times to see if the military honor guard registered any notice. They did not move a muscle.

    Ok, I watched a few times because it was funny. Is that so wrong?

    Linky goodness (none / 0) (#60)
    by ruffian on Wed May 19, 2010 at 08:02:25 PM EST
    The video.

    Parent
    What do yu want to bet (none / 0) (#78)
    by Cream City on Wed May 19, 2010 at 08:59:51 PM EST
    she's wearing new shoes, not yet scuffed on the sole for traction -- and she was on marble.  (I have been there and done not quite that, but close.)

    There is a practical reason for that red carpet, which she correctly did not use when the Obamas came down it.  So off she went onto the marble -- and whoops!

    Lovely dress, though.  Hope she does well.  Spotlight certainly is on her for her first state dinner, after the screwup by her predecessor.

    Parent

    Chief of protocol (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu May 20, 2010 at 12:41:20 AM EST
    is absolutely not the same as "social secretary."  Two different positions.

    Parent
    Probably little worn (none / 0) (#122)
    by ruffian on Thu May 20, 2010 at 10:51:01 AM EST
    if not brand new. You can see them a little in the video - look like 4 inch spikes to me.

    I can certainly relate - I would have fallen all the way down the stairs.

    Kudos for the great recovery. She certainly seems to be able to handle the unexpected - I suspect that is a good trait in a protocol officer.

    Parent

    Ooh! That made me cringe! (none / 0) (#113)
    by jbindc on Thu May 20, 2010 at 07:32:40 AM EST
    I've actually met Capricia Marshall - had an informational interview with her about a year or so ago.  That video, while funny, is cringeworthy when you've met the person!

    How embarassing, but good for her for the quick recovery!

    Parent

    But (none / 0) (#117)
    by CoralGables on Thu May 20, 2010 at 08:38:47 AM EST
    without question, one of the most graceful falls on record. Of course, a still photo would catch her sitting down on the job.

    Parent
    I (none / 0) (#118)
    by jbindc on Thu May 20, 2010 at 09:22:01 AM EST
    Would not have been nearly as graceful.  The fin part is watching the Obamas - you know they're thinking "do we help her or do we stand here??"

    I'm sure they all had a good laugh about it in private!

    Parent

    She will have a good story to tell (none / 0) (#123)
    by ruffian on Thu May 20, 2010 at 10:54:04 AM EST
    Her graceful fall and quick recovery are to her credit.

    Parent