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Amazon (And Consumers) Lose E-Book Pricing War

By Jeralyn, Section Media
Posted on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 11:59:04 AM EST
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To me, the attraction of the Kindle has been the pricing of books. Instead of paying $30 for a new hardcover, you can pay $9.99.

That price is now going to jump to $15.00 as the result of the top three publishers winning a price war with Amazon and Apple being on the publisher's side.

The e-book agreements, with CBS Corp.'s Simon & Schuster and News Corp.'s HarperCollins Publishers, mirror deals struck this year with Apple for the iPad: Some new best sellers will be priced at $9.99 but most will be priced at $12.99 to $14.99.

[More...]

The new deals ensure that Amazon will have the same array of titles that rival what Apple will offer on its digital bookstore. Apple has forged deals with five of the six major publishers to provide titles on the iPad, which will compete with Amazon's popular Kindle e-reader.

$15.00 for a book you can't thumb through or hold before buying and don't have a hard copy of after you've read it? I think the publishers just shot themselves in the foot. Their greed will come back to haunt them as people will buy way fewer books. I know I will. For $10, I'll take a chance and buy something I don't know much about. For $15, I'm going to ask myself if I really need or want it and decide to think about it. 9 times out of 10, I'll either forget to go back to it or decide I can do without it.

There's a huge market here for publishers. Instead of tapping into it, they are limiting it by over-pricing. Big mistake.

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    Amazon (And Consumers) Lose E-Book Pricing War | 65 comments (65 topical)

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    The book publishers like news publishers are dying (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by Gerald USN Ret on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 12:43:08 PM EST
    The book publishers like news publishers are dying, and they don't know how to stop the bleeding.

    Amazon has most of the "smarts" on their side here.  The publishers have good intentions for the most part but they are not facing the truth that the road to "hell" is paved with those kinds of good intentions.  

    They are trying to protect the store type book seller (especially the smaller ones), and that is a losing proposition for the most part.

    It reminds me of the Encyclopedia Britannica's early mistakes at the beginning of the Digital Age.

    They had a very close relationship to their sales force, those people that for years had gone out and sold sets of bound encyclopedias to people in their homes, usually in a nice book case with plenty of extras.

    Well those sales people looked at the sets of CDs with the Encyclopedia on them and said flatly that we can't charge people many hundreds of dollars for a few discs of plastic, so our "healthy" commissions will disappear.
    The company decided to go along with their sales people and ignore the new Digital Age.  Big mistake at the time.

    I really don't know if the Encyclopedia Britannica ever really recovered from that mistake.

    Jeralyn, here is a thought for you.
    I buy most of my books from Amazon or Barnes and Noble through their used book resellers like "Goodwill Industries" or others, for one (1) penny plus $3.99 shipping for a total of $4.00, because I still like to hold a book when I am reading it.  When I finish it, I return it to the local Goodwill.

    Thanks for mentioning Goodwill (none / 0) (#21)
    by MO Blue on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 01:10:56 PM EST
    as a place to recycle used books. It is past time for me to go through mine and reduce their number. Have a local Goodwill store blocks from my house so it will be very convenient.

    Parent
    Fixed costs (5.00 / 7) (#10)
    by Spamlet on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 12:43:54 PM EST
    The publisher's fixed costs--for advances, editing, design, marketing, and overhead--exist whether it's an e-book or a printed and bound version, so the publisher saves only about $3-$4 per copy with an e-book. Printing and shipping books are very minor costs in the overall picture.

    Then consider the fact that the typical book doesn't even earn out its advance, and the fact that book publishing (thanks to the archaic policy of deep discounts to and returns from retailers) essentially operates on the consignment model. Add in the fact that the e-book competes with print copies in bookstores, and you can see that the $9.99 price is unsustainable.

    Rather than cite publishers' greed, you might consider the idea that Amazon's $9.99 price was set artificially low, as one tactic in Amazon's overall strategy--to push sales of the Kindle.

    At least that is my perspective, and I've worked in the book publishing for 30+ years.

    Who bargainers on behalf of authors (none / 0) (#12)
    by oculus on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 12:47:15 PM EST
    as to author's share of e-book sales?

    Parent
    The agent does (n/t) (none / 0) (#14)
    by Spamlet on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 12:49:30 PM EST


    Parent
    If a regular paperback costs... (none / 0) (#25)
    by Julene on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 02:32:15 PM EST
    If a paperback I buy at Borders is $13, how is it undercutting the writer/publisher if I pay $9.99 on my kindle using the savings of $3-$4 that you cite? It's not. Now I have to pay the same price for a paperback that I pay for a paperless book that they can take away from me at any time? Ridiculous. Of course, leave it to Apple to ruin it for everyone. They did this to the music prices, as well.

    Waiting for the equivalent of Napster for my ebooks....

    Parent

    Borders (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by Spamlet on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 03:27:05 PM EST
    bought the $13 book from the publisher for $5.20 (deep discount of 60 percent of retail price to mass retailers), and the publisher's fixed costs per book (of which the $3 to $4 for printing and shipping are only a small portion) still exist. It's also true that if Borders doesn't manage to sell the book within the short period of the book's shelf life, Borders can return the book to the publisher for a refund (the archaic policy of returns, a leftover from when book publishing really was a "gentlemen's profession").

    Even when bookstore sales go through, publishers actually lose money on most of their books, so they try to make up for those losses with the blockbusters on their lists (or they simply decide to publish nothing but dumbed-down prefabricated blockbusters, to the detriment of our literary culture). The situation is more analogous to what has happened to American movies than to what has been going on the music industry.

    If the publisher is already losing money on the $13 paperback, the $3 to $4 in savings on the e-book won't matter, since the same book that Borders got for $5.20 is a book that Amazon will get for $3.97, but the same fixed expenses (minus the pittance for printing and shipping) still exist for the publisher.

    As for the author, his or her royalties are a small percentage of the book's retail price. But when you consider that the author's advance is an advance against royalties, and that most books don't earn out their advances, you can see that the $9.99 e-book is not in the author's economic interest, either.

    What is not in authors' and publishers' interests is ultimately not in the interests of serious readers, IMO.

    I hope this answers your questions.

    Parent

    Because the $13.00 price at Borders (none / 0) (#28)
    by ruffian on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 03:02:37 PM EST
    is also undercutting the write/publisher, just not as much. If the Kindle version were not $9.99, borders might be able to sell the the paper version for $15.00.

    Parent
    I'm sorry but I disagree (none / 0) (#35)
    by Gisleson on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 03:42:21 PM EST
    The vast majority of the publishers' fixed costs is printing and warehousing. Both of those expenses vanish once you go electronic.

    With electronic books, why pay advances? Just put the book out as quickly as possible and pay the royalties on time. I can reformat raw text into a polished looking e-book in a matter of minutes. It's really that easy (unless it's illustrated and then it takes a while longer). E-books should be able to go straight from editing to publication within a week or two at tops.

    The publishing industry needs to face up to the fact that they are selling very expensive products when very cheap alternatives are available.

    Parent

    As Truman Capote famously said (5.00 / 2) (#39)
    by Spamlet on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 03:52:17 PM EST
    of Jack Kerouac's work, "That's not writing, it's typing."

    The accuracy of Capote's judgment aside, you are making the same kind of mistake he accused Kerouac of making. You are confusing the handling of what you call "raw text" with writing.

    Think (or inform yourself) about where "raw text" comes from. Then maybe you can answer your own question:

    why pay advances?


    Parent
    I'm sorry (none / 0) (#44)
    by Gisleson on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 04:13:18 PM EST
    but what does that have to do with cheaper distribution models? E-distribution doesn't impact quality, just the cost of distribution.

    Unless you mean that publishers invest in promising authors which seems to speak more of ownership than anything else.

    Parent

    You can disagree (none / 0) (#37)
    by Spamlet on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 03:44:52 PM EST
    but you are deeply misinformed.

    Parent
    I would appreciate it (none / 0) (#38)
    by Gisleson on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 03:50:16 PM EST
    if you could be more specific. What percentage of book costs are tied in to printing, binding, warehousing and physical distribution?

    I've always understood that to be the majority of the fixed costs. I'd love to see a breakdown of where the money really goes.

    And I used to own a bookstore so I do understand that the publisher doesn't get $15 (or more likely $20+) for the book, but I also understand the incredibly low cost of producing ebooks (having created my own in literally minutes) and the cost of electronic distribution.

    Parent

    See my comments #10 and #31 (none / 0) (#40)
    by Spamlet on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 03:53:15 PM EST


    Parent
    I helped make extensive revisions to a book (none / 0) (#42)
    by Gisleson on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 04:10:03 PM EST
    back in the early '90s. We were working on Mac Pluses using Word 4.0. It was a grisly experience. Now, thanks to faster computers and more powerful software, what took three of us weeks would take me a day.

    A ready to go text file can be formatted in minutes. Proofing is far more time-consuming than the electronic publishing process. I doubt there's a single publishing house whose entire electronic catalog wouldn't fit on one $100 hard drive.

    Most of what you reference is the cost of printing and physically distributing a book. How does that impact the cost of publishing an e-book other the fact that hard copy publishers are stuck with overhead that doesn't apply to their e-business?

    A bound book is a special thing. Sadly, we degrade that investment of timber and ink into far too many unworthy projects that could as easily be e-distributed for next to nothing. As other commenters have made clear, some people will buy books no matter what. Limit the "publishing" industry to those readers and give everyone else what they really want: more affordable books.

    Better yet, don't print any book that can't sell 10,000 e copies. It's a crime to see warehouses full of books pulped because of over-sized press runs and tax laws that make it costly to maintain physical inventories.

    Parent

    Not true (none / 0) (#45)
    by Spamlet on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 04:13:59 PM EST
    Most of what you reference is the cost of printing and physically distributing a book.

    I said the exact opposite. You didn't read my comments, or you didn't understand them.

    And, sorry, you are misinformed. I've done my best to clear up your misunderstandings but have no more time to devote to that.

    Pirate away!

    Parent

    Authors like it (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by trillian on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 12:47:00 PM EST
    Amazon was squeezing them dry...

    Charlie Stross explains

    I'm not one for re-reading books, (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by Anne on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 01:15:24 PM EST
    and I read a lot, so buying books is not the best use of my money; I have a great public library, though, and that's where I get most of my reading material.

    They frequently have books for sale, so if there's anything I'd like to have forever, it's a really cheap way to go.

    E-books will never fully replace print imo (5.00 / 5) (#24)
    by tworivers on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 01:54:04 PM EST
    Sorry but I just can't imagine saying to my kids, "Hey, let's gather round the Kindle for a bedtime story".  

    Likewise, who would want to look at an art book on a Kindle or a Nook when you could have a nice coffee-table art monograph?

    By saying all this, I don't mean to dismiss e-books altogether.  E-books are ideally suited to many types of materials.  And to tell the truth, there are many books whose intellectual worth are not commensurate with the destruction of trees entailed by their production.  Not to mention the fact that the functionality of e-books is in some senses superior to the functionality of print books (but not in every way, I'd argue).

    But I guess I just don't see print books going away altogether.  There is something about the experience of holding a print book in your hands, smelling the paper, etc. that I am hard pressed to imagine an e-reader ever matching.

    In the interest of full disclosure, I should admit that I work in a library, so am admittedly a bit biased about such matters!

    I love real books and will always collect them (none / 0) (#27)
    by ruffian on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 02:52:27 PM EST
    Even if I don't re-read them I love to have them around, look at them, page through them from time to time. It relaxes me more than anything else. So I don't use the library much. I feel that I support the publishing of paper books more than most people I know.

    That said, I can't wait to read books on my iPad as well. I think it will be a different experience, and very helpful for some types of reading. For example I recently read to Jon Krakaeur's book on Pat Tillman, and frequently consulted maps of Afghanistan on my iPhone. What if that was built into the iBook on my Pad? I think ebooks in the future are going to be much more than just electronic versions of the text.

    I'll still read paper books too, and buy them. But  I'm really excited about the possibilities of electronic books on decent platforms, like the iPad.

    Parent

    I wonder how electronic books (none / 0) (#34)
    by Inspector Gadget on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 03:38:34 PM EST
    will impact the reading habits of parent to child. And young readers. Will the families who can now afford to buy the Harry Potter series for 2-3 kids in the house be able to buy all those Kindles and separate downloads so everyone can read when they want?

    No more borrowing or swapping books with friends, I guess.

    It will be a long, long time before I go the eBook route...I love real books. I love owning them, loaning them, and giving them as gifts.


    Parent

    I think there will still be (none / 0) (#47)
    by ruffian on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 04:48:53 PM EST
    all media types, for exactly those reasons.

    I think there is place for every sort of activity. I don't see eBooks ever taking over completely.

    Parent

    Seems that continuing to publish (none / 0) (#49)
    by Inspector Gadget on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 04:54:05 PM EST
    hardbound books would be cost prohibitive if the number of consumers gets cut by too much.


    Parent
    Until you have an entire generation... (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by Dadler on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 03:32:57 PM EST
    ...of people who have never turned a real page with any regularity, the traditional book will survive.  Not as it has previously, but it will remain with us.  I have a hunch, as well, like many things, it will go through a resurgence now and then, as clothing styles do, as music does, as other things do.  The ability to flip actual pages back and forth is so instinctive, I can't see it vanishing for some time.  But catch me when I'm seventy, we'll see how I'm feeling about it then.  

    It's probably safe to say that (5.00 / 2) (#51)
    by Inspector Gadget on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 05:21:50 PM EST
    the relationship between author, book and reader is by far more important than either's relationship with Amazon.com

    I sincerely hope that this "marketplace" for literature doesn't suffer at the hands of the corporate distribution chain.

    There really is no comparison between holding a book in one's lap and scrolling through an electronic transmission device. Will there be physical results from spending hours looking into yet another screen for hours on end, and the position one must sit in to be comfortable while reading? I can drop a book without worrying that I broke it and lost every book in my library. I think there is a big price to pay for technology becoming the vehicle in control of so many of our relationships with relaxation, and each other.

    Me too (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by Spamlet on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 05:39:29 PM EST
    I sincerely hope that this "marketplace" for literature doesn't suffer at the hands of the corporate distribution chain.

    And that the pernicious and deeply ignorant ideology of "content" won't invade every corner of art and thought.

    Bravo (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by shoephone on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 05:54:24 PM EST
    to that, and all your other comments here today.

    More than anything, a lot of the "content" on the web proves that professional editors are needed more than ever.

    Parent

    The Greed is all in Amazon's corner (4.00 / 4) (#1)
    by shoephone on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 12:10:48 PM EST
    Amazon's HQ's are here in Seattle and I have countless stories of friends and acquaintences that got screwed over working there. As a writer, I applaud the publishers for winning this round. Amazon has been undercutting publishers and writers all along, selling books below cost and forcing a race to the bottom with Walmart and others. If it's choice between stomping a ravenous weasel like Amazon, or watching yet another publishing house have to lay off worker or close altogether, I think I know which one I'd choose.

    I Agree (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by squeaky on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 12:29:30 PM EST


    Parent
    Would rate your comment 15 if I could (n/t) (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by Spamlet on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 01:08:08 PM EST


    Parent
    What you and Spamlet said (5.00 / 2) (#57)
    by otherlisa on Fri Apr 02, 2010 at 12:22:59 AM EST
    I'm a newly minted author, about to be published. I'm by no means an expert but the costs involved in producing a book go far beyond the physical materials and warehousing. There is still editing, marketing and promotion.

    Amazon has been keeping the cost of eBooks artificially low as an incentive for people to buy Kindles -- it's all about selling devices, not content, and accustoming buyers to expect content at this low price. There is just no way that authors will come out ahead under such an arrangement.

    I know that publishers aren't benign cultural overlords but I still believe that they are more likely to care about books and authors than a retailer would be, and I'd rather see some power remaining in their hands.

    Parent

    Congratulations! (none / 0) (#64)
    by shoephone on Sun Apr 04, 2010 at 02:09:45 AM EST
    I salute you and hope that your work is well-received -- and sells!

    Parent
    Agreed (none / 0) (#3)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 12:30:03 PM EST
    My nephew works there now.  A 2 year stint at Amazon is considered long-term.  Turnover is ridiculous because of the exploitatively long hours.

    I watch people say that they don't buy at Walmart, but they proudly buy at Amazon.  And I wonder if they really understand Amazon.

    I've defended Amazon on somethings, because I'm really defending smaller internet retailers (e.g. sales tax collection, because I think it would hurt smaller niche internet retailers more than it impacts Amazon, but Amazon is big enough to make an impact in the fight).  But on this Amazon is in the wrong.  Lowballing price because of your pricing power is anti-competitive and it should be stopped.

    Parent

    Agree (none / 0) (#26)
    by ruffian on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 02:43:20 PM EST
    Amazon was keeping the price to consumers artificially low for their own purposes, but should have known they could not make Kindle the be-all and end-all of platforms. Now they are cutting the price of Kindles way down and are going to a reasonable price for the content instead.

    As far as the price point, I think Apple has proven to be pretty good at figuring out what people will pay for media content. there will be more books sold at $15.99 than there were sold at $9.99, because the platforms and pleasure of reading will be advanced with the iPad and other devices to come.

    Parent

    Me, too, (none / 0) (#32)
    by Inspector Gadget on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 03:28:57 PM EST
    countless stories. They seem more like eBay these days in their business model, and definitely more like Wal-Mart in their employer role. I stopped buying through them over a decade ago.

    Parent
    Well (none / 0) (#4)
    by squeaky on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 12:33:37 PM EST
    I would not be surprised that this does well and the price increase will be forgotten soon enough. Besides, once you pay for a book, can't you always access it, again for free?

    Many younger people will experience reading this way for the rest of their lives, and the next gen as well..

    My guess is that paper books will be for collectors and connoisseurs at a much higher price than now and with limited editions.

    I hope your prediction is (5.00 / 3) (#6)
    by MO Blue on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 12:40:57 PM EST
    takes a long time to become reality.

    My guess is that paper books will be for collectors and connoisseurs at a much higher price than now and with limited editions.

    I love curling up on the couch or in bed with a paper book. Don't think it would be the same with a e-book.

    Parent

    I'm thinking if the Kindle were easier (none / 0) (#9)
    by oculus on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 12:43:23 PM EST
    to read in bed than my hardcover library books I might be interested.  Sometimes the typeface or contrast is not conducive to reading in bed.  Progressive lenses.

    Parent
    Large print books from the library (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by MO Blue on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 12:48:06 PM EST
    are great and wonderfully conducive to reading in bed. Luckily my library has a good selection since I'm a bookaholic.

    Parent
    THey are heavier to hold but lots (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by oculus on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 12:56:46 PM EST
    easier to read.

    Parent
    I have a lap (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by MO Blue on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 01:00:12 PM EST
    large enough to prop them up on. :-)

    Parent
    I think I'm covered (none / 0) (#48)
    by ruffian on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 04:51:28 PM EST
    I have so many unread books in the house now, I probably will need the rest of my life to catch up.

    Parent
    A Library (none / 0) (#50)
    by squeaky on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 05:08:06 PM EST
    There are two basic categories of personal libraries, imo and their owners. One, a small collection of books, each book read and re-read, cherished for what illumination or pleasure their words impart.

    The other, a rather large collection of books so vast that they can never all be read in a ones lifetime, yet no less pleasurable to a connoisseur or lover of books. Just to be able to touch and open any volume for a quick browse, is supremely pleasurable and illuminating in its own right.

    Unpacking My Library is a nice essay by Walter Benjamin, about his transition from the former category to the latter.

    Parent

    not everyone (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 12:41:26 PM EST
    re-reads books. I know I don't. I also don't re-watch movies, which is why I rent them but don't buy them, unless the price is like $5.00.

    I agree e-books are the future, but I think $15.00 as a price point for new books is too high and will result in far fewer books being sold.

    Parent

    Losses (none / 0) (#16)
    by squeaky on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 12:59:39 PM EST
    If they lose 1/3 of subscribers they make the same money. My guess is that all the new e-readers joining the kindle crowd, because of the iPad, will more than offset any losses.

    Many of the new hoards of soon to be e-readers who bought an iPad, do not know anything about kindle or its price structure.

    I am also sure that the pricing will change to suit the market, many big sellers, and super slow sellers, may wind up back at the $10.00 price.

    Parent

    Audible's audio books (none / 0) (#56)
    by Natal on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 09:25:00 PM EST
    are a bit more expensive than e-books. Comparatively speaking $15 e-books is an okay price.

    Parent
    Well, here's a different take (none / 0) (#5)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 12:38:48 PM EST
    I have never loved my Kindle because the screen is too gray. It's not ash, but gray. I always feel like I'm reading in the dark. And the Kindle does not have screen color adjustments.

    A few minutes ago I found the customer service phone number for Amazon and waited less than 1 minute for a real person. He was as nice as could be, did not sound harried and listened to my not too articulate attempt to describe the shade of gray.

    Even though my Kindle is 10 months old and this was my first complaint, and I don't know for sure there's something wrong with the screen (only that other people's kindles I've looked at seem way less gray) he's sending a new one at no charge. It will be here tomorrow.

    I love Amazon. I'm only sorry they canceled my associate account because I live in Colorado which now charges sales tax on internet purchases.

    I also don't see how you can complain they wanted to keep prices lower for the consumer.

    You can't complain (5.00 / 3) (#23)
    by Spamlet on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 01:21:23 PM EST
    if low prices for consumers are the be-all and end-all.

    But if the issue is literary "biodiversity"--with highly individual authors, midlist authors, and small/midsize literary publishers as its lifeblood--then Amazon takes its place as the latest aggressor in the economic cleansing of our literary culture (a form of de facto censorship) that has been going on now for several decades. (I thought things were bad even before Bertelsmann acquired Random House.)

    I also don't see how you can complain they wanted to keep prices lower for the consumer.


    Parent
    Authors will disappear (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by Inspector Gadget on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 03:21:33 PM EST
    if they are only writing to keep Jeff Bezos rich.

    Parent
    And I'd give THIS comment a 10 if I could! (none / 0) (#59)
    by otherlisa on Fri Apr 02, 2010 at 12:32:42 AM EST
    Jeralyn, I agree with you on most issues, but I really think you're wrong on this one.

    Parent
    And another Kudo for Amazon. (none / 0) (#18)
    by Gerald USN Ret on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 01:03:41 PM EST
    And another Kudo for Amazon.

    I have a relative in prison.  

    There isn't a lot we can do for him because he will be there a long time, but we do send him a couple of magazines and an occasional book (used from Amazon and B&N.)

    Anyway, one book (actually $3.99 used from a Amazon reseller plus their shipping fee $3.99) he wanted, seemed to be taking a long time to arrive. (We have a phone account so he can call us from prison.)  Then we got a email from Amazon saying that the reseller had never shipped the book, and they were refunding our money (unasked) to the credit card.  The supply of that book on used Amazon had decreased and there were only "collector" editions seemingly, so my wife went over to B&N and actually found it for a dollar less at $2.99 + $3.99 shipping.  It is now on the way to my relative.

    Anyway, the ability to buy used books at Amazon and B&N is just plain amazing and wonderful.

    I could carry on all day about the deals I have gotten at Amazon, but just recently in the last year a Garmin 855, a Sony Blue Ray player, an Epson Scanner, a couple dozen Christmas presents, etc., etc.

    "Long Live Amazon!!"

    And Wal-Mart, I guess (n/t) (none / 0) (#19)
    by Spamlet on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 01:07:16 PM EST


    Parent
    I am a pirate (none / 0) (#30)
    by Gisleson on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 03:22:40 PM EST
    I've admitted this on my blog countless times and have been as "out" about my piracy as possible. But because I have negative assets, the RIAA and MPAA have never sued me.

    I'm currently a member of three private torrent sites. Two of the three offer books (textbooks, especially for computer science or medicine, are very popular). The cost of distributing books on the internet is literally nothing. Free. Zippo. The average book file is incredibly small.

    Mike Masnick, a brilliant tech blogger focused on copyright has pointed out that we are only a few years at most away from being able to fit the Library of Congress onto an iPad. Except you would need to pay $2.13 billion to the publishers IF you could in fact track down the legitimate owners of the copyright on most of those books.

    Publishers could sell ebooks for $5 or less and make better profits than they do now because they would incur almost no cost for "failed" releases (their biggest expense). Congress needs to rewrite our copyright and patent laws.

    People don't steal books online to screw the authors, they steal them to keep from getting screwed by the publishers.

    And yes, I've had copyrighted material illegally reprinted. Thanks to thieves in China my old resume service experienced an upswing in clients from Asia back in the '90s.

    The arguments just don't hold up to scrutiny. Why shouldn't every school (and prison) in this country have the Library of Congress on a spare hard drive?

    So you're a pirate? (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by otherlisa on Fri Apr 02, 2010 at 12:31:30 AM EST
    And this is a good thing?

    How do you expect authors to get paid if our work is available for free? Are we just supposed to write because we love to write? Which, you know, I do. But in the kind of system you're proposing, it seems to me that the vast majority of authors would be hobbyists only. And really, to write a good book takes a tremendous amount of time and work.

    Would it be okay if I came into your house and stole your laptop? Your TV? You know, property is theft, right?

    Parent

    I would have no objections (none / 0) (#60)
    by Gisleson on Sat Apr 03, 2010 at 11:54:51 AM EST
    to your coming into my home (by appt, s'il vous plait) to make copies of my possessions.

    Our copyright laws are not up to date, and they are not being updated because they favor the publishers/corporations, not the content creators.

    How many great artists, composers and authors lived and died penniless? Those who exploit genius rarely do so for the benefit of the genius. The music industry did more to introduce musicians to drugs than any pusher ever did.

    And, as I have pointed out elsewhere in this thread, a published writer whose work has been appropriated. To my advantage.

    Please google Mike Masnick on "free." If you do not grasp how digital distribution works, you're ill-equipped to handle the changes that are coming whether you like it or not.

    And then please tell me why Jeralyn shouldn't charge for people to read her blog. This content is "free" and the fact that it's not printed on dead trees and bound in dead animal skins doesn't seem to detract from your enjoyment of the content.

    Then read this morning's NYTimes on "unpaid internships," or how the publishing industry treats its most vulnerable workers and by so doing keeps the offspring of the non-wealthy from pursuing careers in this "vital" industry.

    Parent

    Because it's Jeralyn's choice (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by otherlisa on Sun Apr 04, 2010 at 01:11:20 AM EST
    to make this content available to her readers in the way that she's chosen to do it.

    Please do not lecture me about the coming digital age. I do keep up to date on this stuff. And until someone can tell me how I as a writer can work hundreds upon hundreds of hours (I'm guestimating about 3000) to produce a good book and make a living doing so in your universe, then sorry. You're advocating theft. It's wrong. I do not choose to give you my intellectual content for free.

    You are stealing from people. Unless they've given their permission for you to appropriate their work, you are stealing. Rationalize it any way you want, but that's the truth.

    Parent

    ok, my point was not that writers (none / 0) (#63)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Apr 04, 2010 at 02:07:46 AM EST
    shouldn't get paid. It was that I think if publishers kept the price lower, they'd sell more books, especially given the larger market with e-book readers. And because of the greater sales volume, both the publishers and writers would make more money.

    As a writer on commission, or a publisher looking for maximum sales volume, I was thinking both would make more money selling 10,000 books at $9.99 than 5000 books at $15.00. I think fewer people will buy at the higher price.

    Parent

    My point is not to cause you pain or lecture you (none / 0) (#65)
    by Gisleson on Mon Apr 05, 2010 at 03:47:38 PM EST
    From 1988 through 2002 I worked with over 7,000 resume clients. The world changes and technology eliminates jobs constantly, and those jobs not eliminated get changed. A lot.

    I'm not advocating anything. I'm just pointing out what is. Is is here. But for someone to "steal" your book, they would first have to make a digital copy. For your book to be worth that much effort, it's hard to see how you could not make income from it.

    And yes, at the present time almost all downloading not involving a credit card is, by definition, stealing. Which is why governments must redefine the rules. Unlimited copying is part of the universe we now live in. Free distribution guarantees that anything that can be copied will be distributed to the extent that there is interest.

    My writing is different from yours. I get paid to write, but lose all control over my writing once I've finished a project. And my name is almost never attached to my copy. Other writers are learning how to make their fans/readers fund them, and that's working out quite well. Corey Doctorow gives away more content than anyone and as a result he keeps winning awards and selling more books.

    Things change. Those who don't change with the times will not enjoy the world we're living in.

    Parent

    I read that New York Times article too (none / 0) (#62)
    by shoephone on Sun Apr 04, 2010 at 02:05:50 AM EST
    and it sure as hell isn't just certain publishers that are exploiting writers. And it isn't just writers that are being exploited. Almost anyone looking for work right now is subject to it.

    I just saw an ad on Craiglist Seattle ten minutes ago from a visual arts agency that is pretending to be advertising for "internship" writers for its blog content. Trouble is, they couldn't decide whether to call it an "internship" or an "apprenticeship," so they leave it up to the job seeker to decide. They say they want the writer to "think of it as a class you don't get paid to be in." Beyond that, there is no mention in the ad of how real-life college class credits will be handled -- in which case, it is not really an internship.

    Please don't try and tell the rest of us what is actually going on in the industry. We know. Any excuses on behalf of Amazon's monopolistic, exploitive practices are unacceptable.

    Parent

    Great idea (none / 0) (#36)
    by Spamlet on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 03:43:59 PM EST
    as long as you also agree that authors and publishers will be fully compensated for their work.

    Now, where will that compensation come from? Maybe from the government? Come to think of it, the government could just become the publisher of all American authors, and of all foreign authors whose books are released in the United States. I foresee no problems of any kind with that model.

    </s>

    Why shouldn't every school (and prison) in this country have the Library of Congress on a spare hard drive?


    Parent
    Obviously (none / 0) (#41)
    by Gisleson on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 04:00:32 PM EST
    the entire industry needs to be rethought, especially from the point of view of removing traditional publishers as gatekeepers for knowledge.

    Copyrights and patents interfere with arts, culture, science and technology. The insistence that everything be owned necessitates a huge amount of overhead that just isn't needed.

    If you use someone's patent, you should pay a fee based on your profits from that patent. If you read someone's book, you should pay a modest fee for that privilege. How much does the average author get per book in royalties? Take that amount and make that and a small distribution fee the cost for accessing a book legally.

    I doubt very much that many readers would steal a $5 download. And instead of editing books, why not encourage authors who need help to partner with editors who'd share in the royalties?

    Again, ebooks for $5 would be moneymakers for anyone but the current publishing industry. On the internet, no one does power lunches.

    Parent

    You seem to be (none / 0) (#43)
    by Spamlet on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 04:10:36 PM EST
    confusing your feelings about copyright (perhaps based on your experience with the music industry) with the facts about how books get written and published. These are two different topics.

    And this idea is utterly unworkable, from a number of angles:

    instead of editing books, why not encourage authors who need help to partner with editors who'd share in the royalties

    There's nothing wrong with the Internet book publishing model that you propose, and it's available to everyone right now, including every writer editor, and publisher who is happy to work for free.

    I wish I had time today to write more about this topic, but I don't.


    Parent

    I think we've both said enough (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by Gisleson on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 04:17:34 PM EST
    to give others something to think about.

    Parent
    Another way to get good cheap books. (none / 0) (#53)
    by Gerald USN Ret on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 05:41:20 PM EST
    Another way to get cheap good books.

    I visit the Dollar stores every so often.
    You can get hard bound for $1.00 as well
    as paperback.

    I get all the books on politics and the war that I read that way.

    Yes, they may be a couple of years old, but books on politics and war shouldn't be read right away, anyway.  You can't really evaluate them until a few years later.

    For the most up to date contemporary news we have the INTERNET.

    Sherman Alexie hates e-books (none / 0) (#54)
    by shoephone on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 05:51:05 PM EST
    and has no love for Amazon's tactics. He refuses to participate in the kindle at present. Who knows if he will have a warmer attitude toward the i-pad? But it's a bit ironic that here in Seattle, where Amazon is based, we are repeatedly rated the #1 reading-est city in the nation. And though there is a huge tech footprint here, we buy actual books. Hard copy is not going away anytime soon.

    I'm not saying e-books are evil; I don't think anyone is saying that. E-books are part of the future and they are a good option for some people, especially those with sight-impairment issues. The problem is Amazon's
    typical scorched-earth strategy of monopoly.

    BTW, Sherman Alexie just won the PEN/Faulkner Award for War Dances.

    Amazon (And Consumers) Lose E-Book Pricing War | 65 comments (65 topical)

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