Not Caring About Tax Policy

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Media
Posted on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 12:07:03 PM EST
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It seems incredible to me that a historic victory for Dems in 2008 will likely end up with a permanent extension of the disastrous Bush tax cuts. Definitely NOT the most progressive 2 years in a generation. Kevin Drum writes:

Obama wants to pass DADT repeal, New START, and raise the debt ceiling. Conservatives want permanent extension of all tax cuts. That sure sounds like fertile ground for a deal to me. [. . . P]ermanent extension of the tax cuts isn't that big a deal for Dems. I'd trade it away for those other three things and live to fight another day on taxes.

Simply incredible. The lack of understanding contained in those sentences is simply incredible. Live to fight another day on taxes? What ~~day~~ century would that be? Pathetic. I hope these Beltway bloggers enjoy watching social programs get cut to the bone in the name of "deficit reduction" after they urge rolling over on tax cuts for the rich.

Speaking for me only

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Not Caring About Tax Policy | 31 comments (31 topical)

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I can't wait until Drum tells us that (5.00 / 1) (#3)
by MO Blue on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 12:30:37 PM EST

we must privatize Social Security, Medicare and eliminate all social programs to pay for even more tax cuts for the top 1 - 2%. They are after all "fertile ground" for another deal to strip the bottom 98 of all financial assets and security.

: He already has (5.00 / 3) (#8)
by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 12:46:51 PM EST

BTW, I wish someone with media access (5.00 / 4) (#4)
by MO Blue on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 12:36:22 PM EST

would tell the world that Klein and Drum is not the voice of liberals in the U.S. They do us and the country a lot of damage they spout this type of bad policy as a liberal POV.

: Me too (5.00 / 1) (#7)
by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 12:46:41 PM EST

$700 billion over ten years. (5.00 / 1) (#5)
by Buckeye on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 12:38:23 PM EST

If we are worried about the gutting of safety nets, why not push to let them all expire? Closer to $4 trillion in incremental revenue. All it would do is roll back the rates to where they were under Clinton. Those were good times economically I remember.

I am there (5.00 / 1) (#6)
by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 12:46:27 PM EST

I hope Obama does it. He won't.

But $70 billion a year is not chopped liver my friend.


Amen (5.00 / 2) (#15)
by ruffian on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 01:28:11 PM EST

I was all for using the the middle class only extension purely as a political issue before the election if the Dems had the finesse to pull it off, but of course they did not.

As a matter of policy rather than politics though, I'm for letting them all expire. If the serious people want an adult conversation about taxes, let's have it from the square one of the Clinton era tax structure, not this one.


Agree, and the short term politics of it are nice (none / 0) (#9)
by Buckeye on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 12:52:21 PM EST

as well. It's just that we REALLY need that revenue; otherwise, I fear the longer-term budget problems will eventually get solved on the backs of the poor, elderly, and working class.

I agree with you there is a long range strategy regarding the tax issue. So would it not be better in the long run for Dems who support keeping whatever safety nets we have in place to just let the tax cuts expire wholesale? They have already taken a beating in the last election, it cannot get much worse (other than Obama losing in 2012 but that is unlikely IMO considering the GOP contenders).

It would be the better strategic political play in the long-term. And it is easy, all Obama has to do is sit on his hands and do nothing.


As I said (5.00 / 1) (#12)
by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 12:57:59 PM EST

I agree with you. Let all the tax cuts expire now.

the long term gain is worth the short term pain, especially when you consider that you will relieve the pressure to cut government spending now.

It is all of a piece with these Beltway Bloggers - they simply do not see the connection between tax policy and fiscal policy. They have always been blind to it.

I've written often how they underestimate the importance of Clinton tax policy in 1993. I got into a big fight with Drum about it.


I am interested in this (none / 0) (#14)
by andgarden on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 12:59:22 PM EST

Is the connection based on increased wealth disparity? An increase in the deficit?

What exactly?


"Deficits" worriers now (5.00 / 1) (#21)
by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 02:15:27 PM EST

I actually foolishly thought the Catfood Commission was a ploy to stop more tax cuts for the rich.

Generally speaking though, in the 90s, Clinton forestalled Gingrich's attempt to cut social programs largely BECAUSE the budget was in balance.


: Obama was just as clear (5.00 / 1) (#31)
by observed on Sat Nov 20, 2010 at 07:53:54 PM EST

about his plans to cut SS as humanly possible, for a Democratic Presidential candidate. There's never been any doubt.

: Oh, honey... (none / 0) (#30)
by sj on Sat Nov 20, 2010 at 07:41:21 PM EST

You really thought that the Catfood Commission was a ploy? You do have an honest heart.
I do hope you're rethinking your position that their report is DOA. Although I would love for you to be right.

The case could be made from a political (none / 0) (#18)
by ruffian on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 01:35:36 PM EST

point of view that now is the best time to trade tax cuts, even the middle class tax cuts, for the safety net. Around 20% of the middle class is either underemployed or unemployed right now, and are not paying taxes anyway. I'm sure they would rather have a safety net. Those of us lucky enough to be working and making some money can afford to be paying the same taxes Clinton had us paying.


Pelosi still has a say in this (none / 0) (#10)
by andgarden on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 12:57:24 PM EST

It would take a discharge petition signed by 218 members of the House to get a vote on any bill she doesn't wanted on until next Congress.

The Republicans could offer a full extension in a motion to recommit, but at that point they would be forced to offer an up-or-down vote on tax cuts for the rich.

Perhaps the better move politically would be to offer an extension for sub-$250k earners as a suspension bill. No amendments. If the Republicans vote against that, they will be the ones causing a reset to 1990s levels.


: Sure (none / 0) (#13)
by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 12:58:28 PM EST

I agree completely. (none / 0) (#28)
by masslib on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 03:27:02 PM EST

That would be the responsible thing to do, so of course we won't do that.


do you think (5.00 / 1) (#11)
by Capt Howdy on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 12:57:59 PM EST

republicans take his lunch money? and give him wedgies?

it not its only a matter of time.

Fertile ground for a deal...hahahahahaha (5.00 / 2) (#16)
by ruffian on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 01:31:12 PM EST

On what planet does Drum think the Republicans would make that deal?

Here's the deal, Charlie Brown... (5.00 / 2) (#17)
by observed on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 01:32:22 PM EST

So, what do the Blogger Boyz care about? (5.00 / 1) (#20)
by Anne on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 02:09:29 PM EST

Any clue?

I almost never seek out their writing anymore, unless some idiotic morsel is dangled in front of me that I feel obligated to read the entirety of; when I do, I generally end up feeling like it's all about selling me on something that makes no sense. Something that causes me to mutter the Jon Lovitz tag-line: Yeah, that's the ticket...

Imagine if Kevin had written: "Women's reproductive rights aren't that big a deal for Dems. I'd trade it away for a health care bill and live to fight another day on abortion."

Oh, wait - someone did kind of say that - maybe not Kevin - but someone equally clueless.

Separate and apart from the fact that Kevin doesn't understand the whole tax policy thing, is he still, really, able to believe that Republicans have one honest bone in their collective body, on any issue, such that one could imagine a scenario where the GOP concedes on anything that matters to us?

If Kevin were doing stand-up, it might be possible to find a few laughs in what he's written, but in no universe that I inhabit can he be taken seriously on tax policy.

Re cutting (5.00 / 2) (#22)
by sas on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 02:23:17 PM EST

social programs to the bone.....

I have been writing everywhere I can about Social Security...especially when the media, and the cat-food commission continue to mis-inform.
Please tell others.....

It contributes NOT ONE PENNY to the deficit. It is totally off/removed from the budget.
It is NOT en entitlement program. It belongs to the people who contribute (the workers!) and those who get benefits.
Congress borrowed (embezzled) $2.2 trillion from it to fund things like unnecessary wars, and now it is time to PAY IT BACK to us.

They told everyone that women's (5.00 / 1) (#23)
by Militarytracy on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 02:24:20 PM EST

rights didn't matter either, just roll over on those too. The women fought them on such things and we were told to sit down and STFU, so we did what women then do in such instances....we removed ourselves from the vicinity of these ignorant disgusting A-holes. We did not show up at the polls. Going down that same old road again, about to fall into the exact same hole too. Just about the entire base will eat it on this tax issue that Drum is trying to make us all roll over on. What an idiot. Learn something Kevin before you blow your own self up!

Among other things (5.00 / 2) (#25)
by cal1942 on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 03:03:19 PM EST

keeping tax cuts for the wealthy will mean yet more money fleeing the country for still more overseas investment.

If Nancy Pelosi wants to do a real service to the nation she'll ignore any White House "deals."

Doing nothing at all is better than extending upper income tax cuts for even 1 day.

Not a big deal for Democrats? (5.00 / 1) (#27)
by masslib on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 03:24:34 PM EST

I s this guy nuts? Democrats ran strongly on ending Bush's tax cuts for the wealthy in '08. It was precisely a HUGE big deal. What an idiot.

He is giddy from his own stupidity (none / 0) (#1)
by Dadler on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 12:14:40 PM EST

Positively giddy.

Nothing like enthusiastic ignorance. At least he's passionate.

Ahem.

Holy sh*t! (none / 0) (#2)
by lilburro on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 12:16:56 PM EST

We went from possibly campaigning on the Obama middle class tax cut plan (no tax cuts for the wealthy) to giving that up because it would "endanger" Blue Dogs during the election. Then we went to trying to decouple the tax cuts for the wealthy and the middle class tax cuts. And now Kevin Drum is willing to give the GOP exactly what they want, full permanent extension?

That's what happens when you don't fight I guess. Sometimes I marvel at the fact that Kevin Drum is the same guy who wrote the essay "The Great Persuader."

Well Drum will be shocked when at the end (none / 0) (#19)
by me only on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 01:56:55 PM EST

of negotiating, the Republicans hold out for something more. Or, as it was put best by one of the great heroes of our time:

I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further..

: My boss is famous for (5.00 / 1) (#24)
by ruffian on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 02:50:51 PM EST

raising the price on a proposal after being told to go away and come back with a yet another 'best and final offer'. The customers were stunned - 'but the price is supposed to go down!' Gave us the job though, and learned not to mess around with him.

I thought Hoyer said they were going to force GOP (none / 0) (#26)
by BobTinKY on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 03:16:28 PM EST

to vote on Obama's middle class cuts?

Why not do that and let the Bush cuts expire whatever the outcome of Obama's cuts?

You're talking kevin drum here (none / 0) (#29)
by pluege2 on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 04:46:58 PM EST

The lack of understanding contained in those sentences is simply incredible.

so what else is new.
.