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Monday Night Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Mon Nov 15, 2010 at 08:55:22 PM EST
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I've missed the news today and will catch up soon. But for now, it's the season finale of Weeds which promises to have an astounding final five minutes. And yes, it will be back for Season 7.

No spoilers, please, until after it's aired on all coasts.

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    Weeds - wow! Don't miss it! (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by ruffian on Mon Nov 15, 2010 at 10:42:17 PM EST


    I did not see that ending coming (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 12:53:36 AM EST
    Great cliffhanger. Can't wait to see what the back end of "Plan C" is.

    Weeds creator tonight says next season will probably be the last.

    What I thought would happen tonight but didn't: Warren would have a gun when arrested at the airport, pull it out to shoot himself, Nancy or Shane would get it from him and it would go off accidentally, killing Esteban or Guillermo.

    Guillermo might be the most evil drug guy ever. Even Caesar and Esteban had hearts.

    In any event, great finale, very emotional and rollercoasty.

    Parent

    I didn't either! (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by ruffian on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 09:17:44 AM EST
    that was by far the most emotional episode since the season finale of...was it season 2 when they were in the kitchen of the growhouse?

    Anyway, very well done. The scenes with the boys were all tearjerkers and funny, and the ones with Nancy, Esteban and Guillermo very tight and suspenseful, with great dialog all around.

    It is probably time for one more season and done. I thought the writing was wonderful this year. The show was starting to annoy me, and there were two things I needed to see: people telling the truth to Nancy about how badly she was treating them, and Nancy reveal more of why she does what she does. I felt both of those areas were better explored this season.

    Nancy needs a good lawyer Jeralyn!!

    Parent

    I think (none / 0) (#36)
    by CST on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 09:24:07 AM EST
    Nancy was just getting hard to root for, and a show with an unsympathetic lead is sometimes hard to watch.

    But I think they managed to humanize her a bit more, and developed the rest of the cast well.  You always root for the others, and Nancy is the leader for better or worse.  Usually worse.

    That being said, I found myself rooting for her in the end.  Plan C in my mind was less about what happened to her personally, and more about everyone else.  And it was her plan.

    Parent

    it was great (none / 0) (#22)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 08:36:08 AM EST
    I wouldnt be surprised if we were closing in on the last season of Dexter also.  this is 5.  5 years is a long time and I have a feeling they do not want to let it turn into the Simpsons and run out of gas.  so far they have done an amazing job of making every season better (on both Weeds and Dexter) than the last but I dont see how they can keep doing that.

    hope I am wrong.  and this doesnt feel like the last season of Dexter.  at least so far.  they are getting into some very interesting territory with Dexters new female friend.

    Parent

    Fun and games in D.C. (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by MO Blue on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 08:23:01 AM EST
    Maryland physician Andy Harris (R) just soundly defeated Frank Kratovil, one of the most endangered Democrats on Capitol Hill going into the November election. And he did it in large part by railing against 'Obamacare' and pledging to repeal Health Care Reform.
    ...
    ...Harris created a stir at the orientation meeting by demanding to know why he had to wait a month after he was sworn in in January for his government-subsidized health care to kick in. After responding in a huff, he even asked if there was some way he could buy into the government care in advance, seemingly thinking there might be a government program similar to the so-called 'public option' championed by progressive Democrats in 2009.

    According to an unnamed congressional staffer quoted by Thrush, Harris stood up at the meeting "and asked the two ladies who were answering questions why it had to take so long, what he would do without 28 days of health care." link

    Somehow I don't think I will be shedding any tears over Harris' problem.

    Just by way of background... (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by Anne on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 09:28:37 AM EST
    Frank Kratovil barely defeated Harris for the seat that opened up in 2006, when incumbent Wayne Gilchrist decided not to run for re-election.  It is -and has been for many years - a solidly Republican district that Kratovil only won because he was well-known and respected in the Eastern Shore counties; he was, essentially, an acceptable place-holder for what most people expected would be the GOP's return to owning the seat.  A very conservative Democrat, so not much help in getting votes for Democratic legislation.

    Harris is out of his depth, rabidly anti-choice, has insane ideas about taxes - of course - and it's good to see that, as per usual, he is just another Republican who feels entitled to perks and benefits that he would happily deny to others.

    On behalf of the State of Maryland, I apologize for the 1st District voters who sent Harris to the House of Representatives (not my district, but even so...)


    Parent

    Gilchrist didn't retire (none / 0) (#41)
    by andgarden on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 09:44:58 AM EST
    He got Club[bed] for Growth by Andy Harris in 2008.

    Parent
    Oh, you're right...they (none / 0) (#49)
    by Anne on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 10:03:39 AM EST
    put a bull's eye on him and never looked back; I do remember that he caught a lot of flak for some of his positions that weren't rigid and conservative enough; if I'm not mistaken, he endorsed Democrat O'Malley for governor in 2006, and he did it again this year.  

    Republicans have no problem eating their own; Dems, on the other hand...


    Parent

    Maybe he can sign up for COBRA in the meantime (none / 0) (#21)
    by republicratitarian on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 08:32:37 AM EST


    Parent
    The individual market has just the policy (5.00 / 2) (#24)
    by MO Blue on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 08:40:45 AM EST
    for him. Full price with no subsidies.

    Parent
    Anyone other than me see KO's (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 09:03:55 AM EST
    'special comment' last night? I saw it at midnight or one am, and I wasn't particularly impressed. Journalism has changed drastically, but that's not because of Ted Koppel or any one person, but because of technology.

    It seemed over the top to me. Some valid points, but just...not quite accurate. I don't know. I've stopped watching him for the most part, the schtick was getting in the way.

    Seemed to miss the mark for me too (none / 0) (#44)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 09:54:15 AM EST


    Parent
    One of KO's best SCs, imo. (none / 0) (#46)
    by brodie on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 09:57:07 AM EST
    Hit Koppel properly for Ted's false equivalency nonsense (KO/Rachel/Ed=O'Reilly/Hannity), and for TK's silly belief in the false god of "objective" journalism.  

    Informative and spirited commentary, not over the top that I saw, nor inaccurate in the basic facts and larger truths.

    Keith has a much more informed and intelligent grasp of the journalistic landscape than either Koppel or the other somewhat overrated and smug media critic, Jon Stewart.  Too bad neither Koppel nor Stewart will likely be doing any extended sit-downs with Keith in the near future -- they both probably know they'll have more than met their match.

    Parent

    digby on Obama apologizing for not (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by MO Blue on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 09:44:08 AM EST
    compromising with Republicans enough in his first two years.

    So despite the fact that he spent the first two years of his presidency doing back flips to get even one Republican to vote for his program, even as they demonized him as a socialist and a coward, he is assuming responsibility for the failure and earnestly promising to do better. And just like before, when the Republicans rebuff his every gesture, the American people will see someone who is unable to fulfill his promises and will blame this failure for all their problems.

    If Obama wanted to be like Gandhi or Jesus he should have started a movement or a religion instead of becoming a politician. Politics is about persuasion and power, not transcending human nature. He's going to lose in two years if he doesn't start using the power of his office to fix this economy instead of moping around about "tone." If he doesn't fight, the only politicians the voters will see fighting for them are the Tea Partiers. link
    Digby just hammers it in for me (none / 0) (#48)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 10:03:21 AM EST
    It irritates me witnessing Obama desire to be Ghandi too.  He should have started a movement then and not attempted to run the larger dynamics of my life.  Ghandi was also a dysfunctional destructive father, he probably never should have had children if he was going to be so intent on sacrificing himself for his world.  It didn't leave much of a functional self for his kids who needed a father like any other child does.

    Parent
    Peter Daou (none / 0) (#1)
    by andgarden on Mon Nov 15, 2010 at 09:20:21 PM EST
    is suing Arianna Huffington.

    This could get ugly.

    If this is true, would anyone really be shocked? (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by EL seattle on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 03:37:30 AM EST
    Still, between this story and Politico's account of the behind-the-scenes messiness of the Olbermann circus, I probably wouldn't be surprised if someone came out and revealed that Josh Marshall had actually been kidnapped after all.

    Parent
    What kind of court complaint (none / 0) (#4)
    by Peter G on Mon Nov 15, 2010 at 10:19:06 PM EST
    refers to the parties by their first names?

    Parent
    heh, (none / 0) (#5)
    by andgarden on Mon Nov 15, 2010 at 10:34:59 PM EST
    this guy apparently.

    Parent
    good looking lawyer (none / 0) (#14)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 12:58:42 AM EST
    I thought the complaint was very well written, grammatically. (I can't speak to the claims, I don't do civil cases.)

    As for the wait, the complaint explains they had to wait until their campaign jobs were over, the fight could have negatively impacted everyone.

    Are any progressives writing about the lawsuit or is everyone staying away because it's too hot a potato?

    Parent

    Good question (none / 0) (#16)
    by andgarden on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 07:20:51 AM EST
    I haven't seen another writeup yet.

    Parent
    Oh, my (none / 0) (#10)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Nov 15, 2010 at 11:17:18 PM EST
    Now that's interesting.  Where did you hear about this?  I wonder what took them so long, failed negotiations behind the scenes maybe?

    (As a trivial side note, I had no idea Arianna had hired Breitbart to put the site together, did you?)

    Parent

    It came through RSS (none / 0) (#11)
    by andgarden on Mon Nov 15, 2010 at 11:23:36 PM EST
    (you'll see that the PDF link is to Politico. . .)

    As for Breitbart, no, I did not know about that. Of course, I had never heard of him until about a year or so ago.

    Parent

    12-yr. old tutoree taught (none / 0) (#2)
    by oculus on Mon Nov 15, 2010 at 09:36:58 PM EST
    me algebra tonight. And the past tense of Spanish verbd. And, most amazing, gave me a detailed summary of his recent study, in history class, of Islam. Did any of my secondary education include study of 0islam?  No.

    Interestingly, (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by andgarden on Mon Nov 15, 2010 at 09:43:21 PM EST
    the Islamic world was refining modern algebra while Europe was stuck in the inward-focused Middle Ages (i.e., why do you think we call digits "arabic" or "hindu-arabic" numbers?)

    Parent
    Well, in juvenile court and (none / 0) (#6)
    by oculus on Mon Nov 15, 2010 at 10:39:04 PM EST
    And in adult court where a juvi is named in the complaint, the juvi is referred to by first name and first initial of last name. Are these litigants juvenile in nature?

    Some might say so :D (none / 0) (#7)
    by andgarden on Mon Nov 15, 2010 at 10:39:44 PM EST


    Parent
    So I shouldn't cancel cable? (none / 0) (#9)
    by oculus on Mon Nov 15, 2010 at 10:47:08 PM EST
    Afterall. Baseball season is over. And I must finish Shantaram if it klls me!  936 pp.!!!!

    great that you are reading it (none / 0) (#12)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 12:46:48 AM EST
    What do you think so far?

    Parent
    I have about 200 pp. to go. (none / 0) (#87)
    by oculus on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 12:20:35 PM EST
    Exhausting.  I'm thinking you wrote it under a nom de plume!  Definitely a criminal defense framework.  He is a good, if fairly long-winded, storyteller.  

    Parent
    the defense framework (none / 0) (#94)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 01:14:10 PM EST
    is probably the major reason I love the book so much, but the characters and the detail about life in India is another reason. I was mesmerized throughout the whole thing. I only wish I had that story-telling ability and could write a book like that.

    Parent
    I am definitely in India mode and (none / 0) (#96)
    by oculus on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 01:46:03 PM EST
    so far nothing I've read in this novel strikes me as false.  Although, as a tourist instead of resident, hard to tell.  I respect the author's love and admiration for the hard working Indian people.

    Parent
    GO EAGLES!!! (none / 0) (#17)
    by lilburro on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 07:58:13 AM EST
    That was EXHILARATING.

    Good for Michael Vick (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by republicratitarian on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 08:22:27 AM EST
    He did the crime, he did the time, hope he does the most with his second chance. He looks like the MVP.

    Parent
    Insane game... (5.00 / 2) (#31)
    by kdog on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 09:01:39 AM EST
    great to see Vick doing so well on the field, and staying out of trouble off of it.

    Parent
    I believe in redemption, (none / 0) (#33)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 09:05:18 AM EST
    and I love pit bulls, so he's not my favorite guy, but he's amazing. I think I'm just going to keep repeating the redemption side...

    Parent
    yeah (none / 0) (#39)
    by lilburro on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 09:43:04 AM EST
    Pro athletes are constantly committing crimes and making fools of themselves.  I feel a lot better cheering for Vick than some other pro athletes.  

    Parent
    I'm so glad... (none / 0) (#47)
    by kdog on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 09:57:32 AM EST
    Vick picked up the redemption ball and ran with it...it's so much bigger than him.  Hopefully it insures second chances for others without highly marketable & rare talents.

    Society has taken a swing back towards "Scarlet Letter" style crime & punishment...maybe this feel-good story can help stall or reverse that awful trend.  

    I've been hard on the commish and his law-n-order stance with player's off the field conduct...credit to him as well for giving Vick the opportunity, I'm sure he got ear-fulls from PETA over it.

    Parent

    Can someone suggest (none / 0) (#56)
    by smott on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 10:48:54 AM EST
    Proper punishment and/or redemption for Ben Roethlisberger?

    I'd like to root for the Steelers again someday...

    Parent

    Already punished by the league... (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by kdog on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 11:02:16 AM EST
    no criminal charges stemmed from his incident.

    The redemption, of course, is on Ben.

    Parent

    No, but certainly having (none / 0) (#81)
    by smott on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 11:42:57 AM EST
    off duty cops in your posse to ensure video tapes are overwritten,crimescenes are left unsecured  and swabbed with Lysol, help to keep charges from being filed, as do presumably enormous payouts to the woman.

    Of course the court case in Tahoe is
    still pending so we'll see where that goes.

    I just think he's a long way from rehabilitation, redemption or anything else.

    If this happens a 3rd time (on the record) I wonder what Goodell will do.

    Parent

    People Eating Tasty Animals? (none / 0) (#64)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 11:09:23 AM EST
    Dam Giants better get their heads on straight for Vick on Sunday night.

    Parent
    You said it... (none / 0) (#70)
    by kdog on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 11:14:52 AM EST
    he was piloting a juggernaut last night boy...made the 'skins D look like a roll of Charmin.

    Your G-Men have their work cut out for 'em.

    Parent

    I'm very much a doggy person (none / 0) (#26)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 08:56:02 AM EST
    and I hope he does well too.  I don't need for him to be forever ruined.

    Parent
    sorta did the time (none / 0) (#50)
    by nycstray on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 10:09:42 AM EST
    iirc, he did time for the gambling charges, but not for the torture and killing of the dogs. . . .

    Parent
    I don't know why he did what he did (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 10:30:43 AM EST
    But it is a social problem.  It is a really tough social problem down here where I live, and they offer a $35,000 fine for information leading to arrest and conviction.  In our culture though, where we are so willing to treat human beings like garbage and slap price tags on them...all life beneath us will be devalued.  As things for human beings gets worse, so it will go for animals too.  Outside of social problems and self esteem issues, what if Vick now knows who he is and respects himself much more going through what he has?  And what if in doing that he is a better human being overall till the day he dies now, more accountable to other living things than most other people around him?  It does happen.

    I am surprised at the dog world where the two Champion German Shepherds were found starving to death too...both were full grown males and weighed less than 40 lbs and probably only had a few days left to live when they were found.  When people chat about it though many of them agree that the woman should never have dogs in her possession again, but she has been exposed, confronted, and many of them seek to forgive her but not forget....not trust her with a dog ever again, but hope that she heals and overcomes whatever demons within that brought about the circumstances that occurred.

    Parent

    Oops, they offer a reward (none / 0) (#104)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 04:13:45 PM EST
    not a fine :)  This is what happens without coffee :)

    Parent
    Watching Weeds right now (none / 0) (#18)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 08:19:44 AM EST
    Josh and I were finishing his science fair exhibit last night.

    Dexter (none / 0) (#23)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 08:37:28 AM EST
    getting interesting.

    Parent
    My husband now predicts (none / 0) (#27)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 08:56:43 AM EST
    that Lumen will kill Dexter next season and that will be the end :)

    Parent
    I think Quinn (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 09:00:28 AM EST
    has the potential to redeem himself and I think he will.  Deb is circling the drain and one more disastrous boyfriend might just push her over the edge.  cant believe they would do that to her.

    Im thinkin Quinn may be the one to take care of the detective problem.

    but anything can happen and I cant wait to find out.


    Parent

    At some point Deb is going to find out (none / 0) (#38)
    by ruffian on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 09:30:44 AM EST
    about Dexter. Probably not this season - I think that will be the final season. I can't stand the thought of anything else bad happening to Deb - I love her so. She reminds me so much of my own sister, it is funny/scary.

    I'm a horrible show predictor though - I rarely see anything coming. It does make me easy to entertain however.

    Parent

    I think everyone feels that way about Deb (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 09:56:48 AM EST
    which is why I think they may let Quinn redeem himself.

    I said last season she would find out this season.  but it does not seem to be shaping up that way.

    but something is going to give when the detective reports back with this pics of them dumping bags over the side of Dexters boat.

    Parent

    I think that detective (none / 0) (#51)
    by Lil on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 10:15:07 AM EST
    is a dead man along with his camera.

    Parent
    eventually for sure (none / 0) (#52)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 10:20:26 AM EST
    I think he may have some more trouble to make.

    Parent
    I'm not a good entertainment predictor (none / 0) (#42)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 09:52:25 AM EST
    either, but heck...I'm there to entertained and surprised.

    Parent
    um (none / 0) (#28)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 08:58:20 AM EST
    I disagree

    Parent
    Joshua has already "beaten" (none / 0) (#62)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 11:05:10 AM EST
    the new Call of Duty.  He said that in the final level he was JFK and his character says, "I'm an idealist with a sniper rifle".  He tells this gamer stuff to me and I don't know if I'm supposed to laugh or be scared.  He says also that he is fighting with Dick Cheney and he says, "Mom, you can't believe how paranoid Dick Cheney is!"

    Parent
    He was talking about the new (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 11:11:57 AM EST
    Natal system too last night and then he shrugged and said he didn't know how well it was going to go over long term having gamers jump around for hours.  I told him that was something that some designers were thinking about too.

    Parent
    very smart (none / 0) (#72)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 11:16:39 AM EST
    kid

    Parent
    Does (none / 0) (#68)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 11:12:46 AM EST
    he want you to be all "into" his video games? My kids want to tell me all this stuff too and I'm glad they want to "share" but darn it I have really no idea what they are talking about most of the time and don't really have the time to spend sitting and playing games with them to find out.

    Parent
    Yup (none / 0) (#71)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 11:16:26 AM EST
    I do a lot of reflexive listening :)  He got my attention though when he tells me that in a war game he is JFK with a sniper rifle :)  Then he threw in the Dick Cheney thing and it was too funny.

    Parent
    in our conversation with (none / 0) (#73)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 11:20:28 AM EST
    "he who shall not be named" (sorry if that makes no sense but we have been threatened that even if other people are talking about "it" we cant) anyway, the big name director said that the reason he wanted to get into game design was because it was so immersive and that people developed a much closer and more personal relationship with immersive games.

    its true

    Parent

    How cool (none / 0) (#80)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 11:37:02 AM EST
    I wonder what directors out there could be interested in that truthiness?  I can think of at least three I suspect right now.

    Parent
    My tutoree is working on his very first (none / 0) (#88)
    by oculus on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 12:24:54 PM EST
    science fair project.  Assigned topic:  Hooke's Law.  We are both learning.  He found a website entitled "Virtual Hooke's Law."  I told him to check You Tube also.  And I found many university-sponsored hits, some with detailed illustrations and discussion.  

    Parent
    I wish the science project Joshua (none / 0) (#106)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 04:21:16 PM EST
    chose was "that" science oriented, it was more of a mythbusterish project.  He tried to improve the distance that a factory Nerf gun shoots.  If you just drill the air restrictors out though that doesn't do anything, the manufacturers seem to have adjusted for that possible modification.  But if you stretch the spring out longer with a blow torch it improves the distance.....then if you drill the air restrictors out when have done that you get even more distance.  I pushed for something more "real science" oriented, but I was pushed out :)

    Parent
    See the segue? Hooke's Law and springs? (none / 0) (#107)
    by oculus on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 04:55:19 PM EST


    Parent
    They already turned it in this a.m. (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 05:23:37 PM EST
    With no Hooke's law explanations or even a hat tip.  A lot of focus on blow torches though effectively stretching springs:)

    Parent
    Someone should write a column (none / 0) (#25)
    by MO Blue on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 08:45:00 AM EST
    titled Fun and Games in D.C.

    Report: Rangel Will Run For Ranking Member Of Ways And Means

    He is fire isn't he? (none / 0) (#29)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 08:58:56 AM EST
    I'm so tired of wussies in D.C., I pray everyday for fewer wussies and then I get Charlie.  And on a bad day what the hell am I supposed to do with him :D

    Parent
    He's just in it for the good health care. (none / 0) (#34)
    by observed on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 09:10:24 AM EST


    Parent
    That's gotta be it :) (none / 0) (#43)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 09:53:38 AM EST
    God knows he's no youngster.  He has probably peaked.

    Parent
    What (none / 0) (#54)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 10:36:13 AM EST
    does everybody think about continuing to have Pelosi in the leadership position?

    I'm of the belief that we need new leaders everywhere.

    Obama is the person to (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by brodie on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 10:57:28 AM EST
    be focused on, not our House leader, who's done a fairly good job of shepherding a lot of legislation successfully through that chamber, though I wish her public face were more forceful and articulate.  And I wouldn't want to unnecessarily reward the anti-Pelosi crazies among the GOP by removing her.  

    Plus, as a lightning rod for the Right, she takes some of the heat away from Obama, who otherwise might not be able for security reasons to travel outside of the WH by this point.

    Parent

    My mind pretty much reels trying (none / 0) (#84)
    by Anne on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 11:59:09 AM EST
    to sort out where, exactly the Congressional Dems stand, how to get them to push back instead of shrugging their collective shoulders and saying, "oh, okay, sure," so that if there have to be negotiations, they don't begin with the Dems already conceding on some of the most important elements.

    I guess what I don't know - maybe no one knows - is whether push-back from the Democratic caucus would actually push Obama more in the direction we want him to go - or whether those Dems then join those of us here on the left who have been chastised for not being compliant enough, and he seeks comfort with Republicans who will be able to pretty much get what they want without having to be accountable for the results.

    Talk about being between a rock and a hard place...

    It's very discouraging, and I truly have no idea how to turn things around.  Pelosi is better than Hoyer and miles better than Shuler - but it feels a lot like saying that, all things considered, I will take a kick in the shins over a sharp stick in my eye.  Some choice.

    Reid?  There are no words, other than that this group of Democrats must be among the dumbest on the planet.  Maybe we need to watch more Dog Whisperer to see if Cesar's techniques would work in the Congress; WE need to be the pack leader, I think.

    I'm clearly willing to try anything other than complete capitulation, or another two years (or, dear God, six more) of them going through the motions before telling us that's really the best they could do.


    Parent

    Usually loss of control (none / 0) (#55)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 10:48:29 AM EST
    means a change of leadership... I think she did a good job, but look at the country's attitude toward her.

    I don't want a blue dog as house leader, so I'll stick with her.

    Parent

    I'm with Jeff (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 10:59:34 AM EST
    If it is Pelosi or a blue dog, I am with Pelosi

    Parent
    I'm not (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 11:10:09 AM EST
    advocating for a blue dog either. I'm of mixed opinion on her. The GOP kept Gingrich in '96 but that was a huge mistake.

    I feel like supporting her is just a knee jerk response by people because the GOP hates her and I don't think that's rational.

    Anyway, I think we need to start "growing" new leaders for the party. What has been done the last four years has not worked.

    What I worry about Pelosi is that she'll not oppose Obama when he produces bad policy like the cat food commission.

    Parent

    The GOP (none / 0) (#91)
    by jbindc on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 01:05:18 PM EST
    Would love for her to stay as Minority Leader - it's great fodder for them and fills their fundraising coffers.

    Parent
    if it wasn't Nancy (none / 0) (#93)
    by CST on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 01:09:04 PM EST
    they would do the same thing to whomever replaced her.

    Personally, I think the more the right wing of this country hates you, the better you are at your job.

    Parent

    I doubt it (none / 0) (#102)
    by jbindc on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 03:49:27 PM EST
    She's a fundraising goldmine for the GOP right now.  A Minority Leader Heath Shuler just doesn't have the same impact.

    Parent
    that's because (none / 0) (#103)
    by CST on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 03:54:54 PM EST
    Health Shuler is practically a republican.

    I'll take the Democrat over the money.

    Parent

    The only thing I disagree with (none / 0) (#110)
    by MO Blue on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 05:28:18 PM EST
    in your comment is the use of the word "practically."

    Parent
    Heath Shuler as minority leader (none / 0) (#105)
    by MO Blue on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 04:20:15 PM EST
    would result in me not voting for any member of the Democratic Party. I still vote for some members of the party but I have no intention of ever voting for a party that has Heath Shuler in leadership.

    Parent
    that's only because the Dems are too f*cking (none / 0) (#111)
    by nycstray on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 10:45:22 PM EST
    stupid to point out that she's echoing what the American people want. No on upper income tax cuts, No on SS cuts etc . . .

    Shuler may not have the same impact with the Repubs now, but give it a week or 2 . . . I'm sure they'll start throwing some sh*t that sticks . . .

    Parent

    Yeah (none / 0) (#99)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 03:24:53 PM EST
    but the GOP used Hillary for fodder too and we were told that we couldn't nominate her because of that. Right?

    Parent
    umm (none / 0) (#100)
    by CST on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 03:30:49 PM EST
    I don't think that's why Obama got the nomination.  Although some people brought it up - I don't see that it had any relevance.

    I'm certain that I would have been just fine with her as president, and she would have won the general election, GOP opposition nonwithstanding.

    Parent

    oh (none / 0) (#101)
    by CST on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 03:31:33 PM EST
    I just realized who you responded to.

    Nevermind.  I think we are in agreement here.

    Parent

    Yeah because doing what... (none / 0) (#108)
    by sj on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 05:08:32 PM EST
    ... Republicans approve of has gotten us so far.

    Parent
    Yes, it is not a choice made in a vacuum (none / 0) (#98)
    by ruffian on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 03:02:14 PM EST
    It depends on the options. I'd prefer her to any of the other names I've seen, like Hoyer. I can't think of who I would prefer to her.

    Parent
    Double edged sword (none / 0) (#58)
    by republicratitarian on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 10:58:33 AM EST
    She is the face of evil to many in this country and the Republicans will still use her to their advantage at every opportunity, but you can't question her ability to make things happen.

    If I were picking, I'd replace her.

    Parent

    She was not a very affective (none / 0) (#60)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 11:00:56 AM EST
    House leader when dealing with Bush.  Based on her past preformance in dealing with Republicans in power, I find her terribly lacking.

    Parent
    I think that Nancy is the best we (none / 0) (#66)
    by MO Blue on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 11:10:41 AM EST
    could get elected. Much better than Hoyer or heaven forbid Shuler.

    The person who I truly wish they had replaced is Reid. They just voted to retain him. Maybe this change will help. Almost anyone would be an improvement IMO.

    In a sign that Democrats hope to do a better job claiming credit for their accomplishments, and emphasizing the differences between themselves and the GOP, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid has merged the Senate Dems' policy and communications shops, and tasked Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-NY) with chairing the new office as a member of party leadership.

    Schumer has developed a reputation among his colleagues, and across Washington, as a shrewd political strategist and a master of message control. link



    Parent
    Kind (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 11:14:28 AM EST
    of a sad statement if she's the best we have. I still can't get over how she let Bush run over her for two years.

    Parent
    Might not be the best we "have" (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by MO Blue on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 11:20:41 AM EST
    Just the best the Dems will elect. Not one any the same thing by any means.

    Parent
    My typing and my proof reading is (none / 0) (#77)
    by MO Blue on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 11:31:43 AM EST
    really, really bad.

    Not one and the same thing by any means.

    Seems to get worse each day.

    Parent

    Charlie Rangel has been found guilty (none / 0) (#63)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 11:07:45 AM EST
    on 12 counts.  One of the counts had been rolled into another one.

    Sad (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by MO Blue on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 11:51:01 AM EST


    Parent
    We haven't discussed... (none / 0) (#75)
    by kdog on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 11:23:04 AM EST
    our new 21st century catchphrase..."If you touch my junk I'll have you arrested".  I can see such a statement being used in tandem with our other 21st century catchphrase, "Don't tase me bro."

    I'm really hoping this is the moment we turn the tide on the security theater at the airport jazz...we need to rise in unison and tell Janet "no mas"....it's gone well past ridiculous.

    I was totally thinking the same thing (none / 0) (#89)
    by republicratitarian on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 12:39:33 PM EST
    Every time I see the headline "If you touch my junk I'll have you arrested" I instantly think of "Don't tase me bro". lol

    And as far as this airport biz goes, screw that. I'm not inclined to fly anywhere now, it's obscene.

    Parent

    I hear that... (none / 0) (#90)
    by kdog on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 01:04:17 PM EST
    but I'm gonna have to fly if I wanna see my special lady...I'll get there and be all groped out:)

    And we're only #33 on the list of countries under the greatest threat of terrorist attack, behind Somalia, Iraq, Pakistan, Colombia, and Spain...I hate to think how we'd be treated by our "protectors" if we were #1.

    Parent

    Watch Colbert from last night (none / 0) (#92)
    by jbindc on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 01:06:20 PM EST


    Parent
    Have you read this yet? (none / 0) (#95)
    by MO Blue on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 01:38:37 PM EST
    The transportation Security Administration has opened an investigation targeting John Tyner, the Oceanside man who was ejected from the airport Saturday morning after refusing to undertake a full body scan and, subsequently, an invasive body search.

    Tyner recorded the half-hour long encounter on his cell phone and later posted it to his personal blog, along with an extensive account of the incident. That blog and a subsequent story on signonsandiego.com posted Saturday night and gone viral, attracting hundreds of thousands of readers, and thousands of comments.

    Michael J. Aguilar, chief of the TSA office in San Diego, called a press conference at the office Monday afternoon to announce the probe. The investigation could lead to prosecution and "civil penalties" of up to $11,000, he said. link



    Parent
    I had not MO... (none / 0) (#97)
    by kdog on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 01:55:30 PM EST
    I figured he'd end up on a list or something, prosecution is a bit much, but not all that suprising...remember when they put out the APB to grab the guy who crossed a security line at Newark to kiss his lover goodbye?  These bastards are sick puppies.

    Parent
    Dude philosophy (none / 0) (#76)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 11:24:17 AM EST
    Things the guys in this house said this weekend that I had to put in the personal diary.  Eating at a really good Mexican eatery with Joshua, he picks up a sprig of cilantro on his plate and eats it.  Then he announces that if you are going to eat cilantro you should eat on a taco or something, otherwise it tastes mostly like a leaf.  And a waitress brings him a plate of free sopapillas and I still don't get how that qualifies for sopapillas :)

    They announce on the morning news that refudiate is the word of the year.  My husband asks me WTF this is about.  I tell him that Sarah Palin combined the words refute and repudiate.  My husband tells the television that if the spanking new refudiate and the common word repudiate mean the same thing, the speaker is not brilliant or creative, only stoopid :)

    I was wandering around the house (none / 0) (#78)
    by nycstray on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 11:34:10 AM EST
    not coffee-d up yet when I heard the refudiate piece, but didn't catch it all and wondered why the heck it was back in the news :P they need to update spell check, lol!~

    an I thought we had pretty much dumbed down America. I guess we still have a ways to go . . .

    Parent

    beyond belief (none / 0) (#79)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 11:36:47 AM EST
    A conservative Maryland physician elected to Congress on an anti-Obamacare platform surprised fellow freshmen at a Monday orientation session by demanding to know why his government-subsidized health care plan takes a month to kick in.
    "He stood up and asked the two ladies who were answering questions why it had to take so long, what he would do without 28 days of health care," said a congressional staffer who saw the exchange.
    "Perks for me, but not for thee" (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by Anne on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 12:03:53 PM EST
    is pretty much the norm among these conservatives, isn't it?

    Please do not get me started on Andy Harris, in particular; I'm not in his district, but I do apologize on Maryland's behalf for him being sent to DC.

    Not that Frank Kratovil, the very conservative Democrat he beat, was much better, but Harris takes things to a whole new level - as his behavior on the subject of the heavily-subsidized health care he will be receiving indicates.

    Parent

    A very common mallody in D.C. (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by MO Blue on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 12:11:18 PM EST
    "Perks for me, but not for thee" disease seems to have infected most of the pols in the WH and Congress.  

    Parent
    perhaps I should send him an email (none / 0) (#82)
    by nycstray on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 11:44:33 AM EST
    with a few suggestions as to what us common folk do without it . . . :)

    Parent
    Monday Night Open Thread | 111 comments (111 topical)

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