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Fighting For Good Policy Is Good Politics

Matt Yglesias writes:

I think that where a lot of progressive political junkies go wrong is that they think “blame Republicans for failing to pass plan to fix the economy” is a close substitute for “fix the economy.” In reality, the evidence that fixing the economy would help Democrats politically is overwhelming, while the evidence that the plan/block/blame strategy would work is non-existent.

I don't know what "progressive political junkies" Yglesias is referring to, but most progressives critical of the Obama economic policies argue that Obama should have fought for better policies, because, you know, maybe he would have gotten them. A lot of folks are pretending the inadequate stimulus and the utter failure of a housing/foreclosure policy implemented by the Obama Administration was not what they wanted. In fact, it was. Was it the best they could do? No one knows because they didn't try to do better.

In the bad old days of Clinton Triangulation, the Clinton Administration enacted a policy they thought was best, the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993. That bill passed in the House by 218-216 and with Vice President Gore casting the tiebreaking vote in the Senate. The Obama Administration, with a less conservative Congress, did not fight as hard for a better economic policy. That is what I criticize.

Speaking for me only

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    Amen. (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by oldpro on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 10:36:06 AM EST
    A cacophony of followers.

    Can you imagine FDR, JFK, LBJ or Clinton putting up with this crap?

    Wimps reign these days and more in anger than in sorrow, I weep for the Democratic Party of old.

    Bernie for President.

    Pretend wimps (5.00 / 3) (#12)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 10:46:22 AM EST
    Wringing their hands, we just can't do anything about this, even though we had (in 2009) an overwhelming mandate, control of the house and "60" in the senate.

    But there was nothing we could do....sigh.

    Pretend wimps.  At least the Republicans don't pretend they care about the little guy.

    Parent

    "60" in the Senate (none / 0) (#27)
    by Politalkix on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 12:20:25 PM EST
    included Nelson, Bayh, Conrad, Baucus, Lincoln, Lieberman, Landreau.

    FDR had 313 Democrats in the House,59 in the Senate

    LBJ had 259 Democrats in the House, 68 in the Senate.

    The "overwhelming mandate" was for candidate Obama, not for all Democratic Party policies. Eg: I am a Democrat but I know enough Independents and Republicans who voted for Obama who do not feel that any country should have "Universal Health Care". They are opposed to Universal Health Care on philosophical grounds.

    Just as many of you did not wake up the morning after Reagan got his huge mandate and started imagining that everything Republicans said about policies were correct, many Republicans and Republican leaning Independents who voted for Obama did not vote for him because they realized the "follies of their political philosophies". They voted for him because they felt that he was a good person with good "family values" who would engage with them in constructive and civil fashion. I know that some of them will vote for him again in 2012.

    This is a very politically divided country. Ramming down your politics down the throats of people on the other side of the divide never works. It did not work for George Bush and it did not work for Bill Clinton between 1992-94.

    This does not mean that President Obama should not fight for policies that he believes in; however the contention that he got the mandate that he did to implement staple Democratic Party policies is simply wrong, IMO.

     

    Parent

    Right. I forgot (none / 0) (#28)
    by jbindc on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 12:32:50 PM EST
    "Presidentin' is hard".

    Parent
    I believe the notion that (none / 0) (#48)
    by BackFromOhio on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 05:33:01 PM EST
    the majority does not want "Universal Health Care", if true, is based on widespread ignorance about what the term means, and how it would benefit everyone.  If you ask the same people if they like having Medicare, and they'll say yes.  The problem is, unfortunately, that the Dems have not as a force been out there explaining the terms, why they want what they propose, and how their proposals benefit the average person.  

    Parent
    In this case, I think these are actual wimps. (none / 0) (#30)
    by masslib on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 12:59:18 PM EST
    I believe Obama at least had every intention of letting the tax cuts for the rich expire because not doing so makes his job so much harder.  I think he just effed up the execution and is now trying to save face with this "decoupling" BS.

    Parent
    Mush from the Wimp (none / 0) (#35)
    by waldenpond on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 01:16:10 PM EST
    Yeah, although Krugman's 'Mush from the Wimp' reference made me chuckle, the Dems aren't even believable anymore.  'We had to eff you over, that's how negotiation works' is getting really tedious.  

    I'll go with the prediction of a temp extention for both middle class and a 'bleed the suckers dry' tax cut for the wealthy for two years and then the Dems can do their fake cringing again just in time for the election.

    Parent

    Write in campaign for 2012. (none / 0) (#17)
    by MO Blue on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 11:19:37 AM EST
    You could be number 4. link

    Parent
    Where's my T-shirt? (none / 0) (#19)
    by oldpro on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 11:23:18 AM EST
    Number 4 on the back will do nicely, thanks.

    Parent
    Need to get more people and have a (none / 0) (#21)
    by MO Blue on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 11:28:15 AM EST
    t-shirt design contest sometime next year.  An additional 70 million more voters would do nicely between now and Nov. 2012.  

    Parent
    Count me in (none / 0) (#22)
    by DancingOpossum on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 11:30:10 AM EST
    But again, ONLY if he does not change his party affiliation to Democratic.

    Parent
    Hurray #5, Welcome aboard (none / 0) (#23)
    by MO Blue on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 11:33:56 AM EST
    I got 5 people to sign up. Everyone else needs to get 5 or more.

    Parent
    Jeez Louise...is this a pyramid (none / 0) (#24)
    by oldpro on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 11:41:23 AM EST
    or a political party?

    I don't do assignments.

    Parent

    I thought an "oldpro" like you (none / 0) (#25)
    by MO Blue on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 11:50:24 AM EST
    could drum up all kinds of support for the right candidate. All political parties have volunteers asking family, friends, neighbors and other like minded people to vote for their candidate.

    Parent
    Good point but (none / 0) (#32)
    by oldpro on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 01:03:38 PM EST
    ...sorry, kiddo.  Illness intervenes and chemo brain is making me short-tempered and crabby.  I don't expect to be 'around' when Bernie makes a run.  I wish you all well, tho.

    Parent
    Just glad that you are continuing to comment (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by MO Blue on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 01:20:50 PM EST
    here. Wish you well for whatever time is available and hope you are underestimating how long it will be.

    Parent
    Sorry. Me no likey. (none / 0) (#41)
    by jes on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 03:33:16 PM EST
    If he is going to be a one-termer fine. We will have to live with it and rebuild. But I'm not signing up to primary him - even if it is, I hope, in jest.

    You just do not abandon him. The risk is just to great.

    Parent

    But what if he's abandoned us? (5.00 / 2) (#42)
    by Anne on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 03:46:34 PM EST
    Which, it's worth noting, is how many, many people feel.

    I can't say that he abandoned me, because he never had me to begin with - I saw this coming from miles away - but I can say that as a Democratic president, he has most certainly turned his back on the platform, the principles and "the base," in favor of making goo-goo eyes - and more - at the folks on the other side if the aisle.

    He was cheating on you before he was even elected - and who just sticks with a cheater, anyway?  He's a politician, not your spouse - there were no vows involved.

    Parent

    I'm not an Obama fan. I didn't know (none / 0) (#46)
    by jes on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 05:21:02 PM EST
    if I'd vote for him until it came time to actually vote. It isn't about me. I have a lot of reasons to abandon him, and I would in a heartbeat but for one thing.

    African Americans have stuck with old white guys through thick and thin. They are loyal. I believe in loyalty (not that I think O does). So, unless African Americans take the lead on a primary challenge - I'll stand with them.

    Parent

    Your (none / 0) (#50)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 06:17:06 PM EST
    refrain is a common refrain I hear a lot but the truth of the matter is that the coalition is done. Many African Americans are going to abandon the party because Obama is not a success IMO and I believe the party will be blamed for that.

    Parent
    If so, the party is doomed. We aren't (none / 0) (#52)
    by jes on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 07:14:57 PM EST
    there yet and nothing could do more to further the resentment than actually primaring him.

    And the Rush types would have a field day with it - like with the "Driving Miss Daisy" stuff. They would love to drive the wedge as deep as possible.

    Parent

    No (none / 0) (#54)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 08:28:45 PM EST
    it's not doomed unless it completely adopts Obama's agenda for all eternity.

    Who cares what Rush thinks? He's done a great job of destroying the GOP. Let him continue.

    Parent

    That of course is your choice (none / 0) (#43)
    by MO Blue on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 03:59:29 PM EST
    Please don't lump me into your "we" category without my permission. We each have choices to make and you are free to make yours based on your best judgment and so can I. You do not have to like my choices but then again I do not need your approval.

    Parent
    ouch. (none / 0) (#45)
    by jes on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 05:13:32 PM EST
    Pretend Wimps is right (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by DancingOpossum on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 11:19:30 AM EST
    The meme of Democratic (or Obama's) weakness or incompetence is just another excuse for refusing to see what is really going on.

    These people are FAR from "weak." It takes enormous ego, a gut of steel, and the ability to twist numerous arms to run for any office. And incompetence? It's a dodge.

    They are getting exactly what they want, period, end of story, and doing so with enormous competence. And that is precisely the problem. Because what they want is very, very bad for the rest of us.

    I think you're closest (none / 0) (#44)
    by NYShooter on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 04:21:51 PM EST
     to what's really happening in this little drama.

    I, and some others (Anne) knew Obama was a con-man during the primaries, but what surprised me was the totally, saturated Rot permeating the Democratic Party, and especially "The Leadership." They talked a big game, and said all the right things when they were out of power, but then, ooops, they won.

    And the jig was up.


    Parent

    obama didn't even try (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by pluege2 on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 07:09:24 PM EST
    Obama should have fought for better policies, because, you know, maybe he would have gotten them.

    obama might have gotten even less done than he did if he tried to implement actual progressive policies. But that is besides the point. The point is, is that with large majorities in both houses of Congress and a decimated republican party, obama had the OPPORTUNITY to try to implment progressive polites and HE CHOSE TO NOT EVEN TRY!

    Instead obama approached EVERYTHING with his pre-capitulation BS, negotiating only to right. So with an unprecedented opportunity to enact and at least try progressive policies, obama cut our effing legs out, choosing instead to resurrect the defeated monsters of the right.

    Except that he is the first black POTUS, obama is otherwise an historically disgusting figure for his tragic wasting of a rare opportunity to actually help people and let them figure out if they like it.

    Instead, obama has doomed us and our posterity to decades of the sadistic whims of the worst that the human personality can conjure up.
    .

    Well done. (none / 0) (#1)
    by masslib on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 10:11:23 AM EST
    I've noticed alot of Obama got stuck with that lousy stimulus posts here and there, which is quite laughable.

    I think you hit the nail on the head (none / 0) (#2)
    by jbindc on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 10:14:31 AM EST
    All we've gotten are excuses from this administration and its apologists - "Give him some more time - he inherited a mess," "Hard to push through [legislation]," blah, blah, blah.  

    I don't know how much easier it could have gotten in the first 18 months of the administration when the Dems had an overwhelming majority in the House and a filibuster-proof Senate and (at least for the first 6 months) a president with a very high approval rating and the backing of the people (who were filled with "hope").

    I expect if the Dems held 400 seats in the House and 90 seats in the Senate, we would have still had excuses of why we have no comprehensive jobs bill or economic package.

    Comprehensive Jobs Bill? (none / 0) (#3)
    by Politalkix on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 10:33:24 AM EST
    If the Democrats tried to pass a "Comprehensive Jobs Bill" in the early days of the Obama administration, Fox News and all media heads would have cried "Communism", the stock market would have plummetted even more because "communism" is a bad word in stock exchages, private companies would have dumped more workers in layoffs because of falling stock prices, 401Ks would have plumetted and all of you would still have posted comments about why the President's incompetence caused the economic collapse.

    Parent
    They DID cry "socialism" (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by ruffian on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 11:01:10 AM EST
    about everything he did - the GM bailout, stimulus, right on down the line, including his father's political beliefs. I think the point is that if you are going to be called a socialist or communist no matter what you do, then why not fight your critics for the policies that have the best chance of success?

    Parent
    Oh my! The sky would have fallen for sure (none / 0) (#34)
    by hairspray on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 01:08:38 PM EST
    when Bill Clinton passed the Omnibus Budget bill in 1993.  the useless pundits and the GOP predicted that. So what?  It infuriated the GOP and the washington Post folks but Clinton's years were marked by trememdous growth and economic prosperity and no war!!!  Sure he lost the house and later the senate, but he made lemonaide out of lemons. That is why the working class loved him.  

    Parent
    Fun Game (none / 0) (#6)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 10:36:20 AM EST
    Count how many criticisms of Obama are based on alternative realities that no one can be sure would occur.

    It's easy to claim that X would have happened when there is no way to prove it.

    Parent

    Don't agree with your logic (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by Buckeye on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 11:24:43 AM EST
    That is like saying if a football coach decides to punt on 4th down with only 50 seconds left in a game down by 4 points, we should not criticize him because we don't know what would have happend had he tried.  

    The obvious move is to go for it on 4th.  If you pick it up, great.  If not, at least you tried to win the game and not just give up because you were afraid to try.

    Your argument is...we should not get mad or blame the coach because the alternate reality of X - would he have picked up the 1st down and if so, would he have still been able to score before time expires - can never be proven.

    For the same reason we be mad at the coach for not trying and making the right decisions b/c we do not know if we would have won or not is the same reason many are upset with Obama for not trying to deliver the right policies and strategy.

    Parent

    Hypothetical (none / 0) (#4)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 10:34:19 AM EST
    Obama does exactly what you propose and fights for the middle class tax breaks and refuses to budge on the upper class breaks.

    The odds of him winning that are very small, so let's deal with the likely reality: that he fails and either:

    1. He is forced to compromise before year end and he gives the GOP the tax cut structure they want to minimize the blow of the GOP taking credit for lowering everyone's taxes

    or

    2. Tax cuts expire for everyone and he has to compromise and give the GOP what it wants later.  In the meantime the dems take 100% of the blow back for all of the chaos that it causes.

    Game theory says that in either of these scenarios, the benefit of "putting up the good fight" is non-existent and carries significant consequences that could have long lasting ramifications.

    Taking that risk only makes sense if the chances of winning the good fight are real. I assert that in this climate and with the numbers we have now and after January 1, that they are not.

    Thus, the obvious and pragmatic move is to make this a short discussion and then cut a deal.   Now those who value the "good fight" balk at this, but I think that the analysis is solid and is exactly what Obama is considering.

    It's smart. I know it doesn't make his base happy but he's being crushed on all side simultaneously. It's the path that gives Dems the strongest position for 2010 while helping the economy short term.

    i don't think he'll cave as quickly as some here think, but I understand if he does.

    How about if you start with (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by Anne on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 12:00:22 PM EST
    the right policy, and work from there?  If you didn't know which party's president was in office, and you didn't know the party breakdown in Congress, what would be the right policy for where we are, at this moment, in the economy?  

    Another question: where will most of the pain be felt by letting the cuts expire?  On the wealthy, who still have money to spend, or on everyone else, a great number of whom will have to reduce their spending in the economy to accommodate the additional taxes?

    It's true that extending the cuts for the majority of taxpayers doesn't put more money into the economy, but at least it does not take more out of it.  

    Are we in an economy where we want to do things that reduce demand, or do we want, if nothing else, to maintain the current level of demand?

    And before anyone swallows his or her tongue in their haste to tell me that if the rich have to pay more into the government, they will spend that much less in the economy, they already aren't spending now.

    It appears that Obama believes the majority of tax-paying Americans should not have to pay even more come January, and the American people, by wide margins, agree.  And unless I missed something, he's held that position since the primaries - two whole years ago.  He came into office with a high approval rating, a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate and a big majority in the House; knowing - knowing - that this was an issue where the GOP was going to scream the loudest, why not take advantage of the imbalance of power and make the GOP irrelevant on this issue?

    Okay, so he didn't do that; he failed, in my opinion, to know the difference between campaigning and governing, and as a result, he failed to effectively govern on this issue.

    Good policy is being held hostage to GOP demands and ineffective leadership.  Again.

    It really doesn't matter what I think about this; it's going to go down as everything else has gone down, only this time, there's a chance we might be spared some pain come January.  I look for it to be used to justify what will be greater pain down the road - as in, "well, we managed to extend your tax cut, but the only way we could do it was to agree to do X, Y and Z - sorry!"

    When a pattern of behavior is established, and we continue to do the things that enable that pattern to continue - like defending and excusing what we know is bad policy, bad decision-making, poor leadership, failure of governance, etc. - we become complicit in whatever flows from all of that, and are as much to blame as the person we are "helping."  


    Parent

    The Right Policy (none / 0) (#33)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 01:04:02 PM EST
    is that no one gets tax cuts.

    You know how many people in America favor that policy? Less than 20%.

    So the next choice is middle class tax cuts (which are still horrible for us long term): he gets support there from the people but not from republicans or from moderate dems on their way out.

    Point: You can get to the point of approving broad tax cuts in far less steps than you think even if you start at a good policy position.

    Parent

    If you thought I was making the (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by Anne on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 01:56:37 PM EST
    argument that tax cuts are the best policy, you'd be wrong; if I didn't spend enough time with the obvious, that's my fault.

    I think one always first has to identify what the best policy is before possibly moving on to considering what the other options are; any fool can go from pure emotion or ideology, but the unintended consequences of doing so can take you where you never wanted to go.

    I think there is a huge leadership gap that has turned governing into ping-pong, muddled whatever message Democrats used to have, sacrificed way too much on the altar of comity.

    You know what they say: nature abhors a vacuum; if Obama and the Dems can't step up and lead, and govern, well, something else will come along to do it.  Be nice if Dems could just do it right and save us all from what may be around the corner, wouldn't it?

    Parent

    The (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 02:03:23 PM EST
    problem is that Obama doesn't hold a policy position on anything for long. If the GOP said they wanted to make tax cuts for the wealthy permanent I'm sure he would go along. He hasn't threatened to veto anything has he?

    This is so simple. Pelosi writes a bill with tax cuts for the middle class. It passes the house. Obama can sign it. The GOP can vote against it. Then then GOP can write a bill that includes the wealthy. Obama can veto that.

    He needs to get on the stick and pass it during the lame duck session but for some reason he thinks that he should wait for the GOP to write the bill.

    He's so politically inept at this stuff it is unbelievable.

    Parent

    He's not politically inept, he's (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by Anne on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 02:17:10 PM EST
    afraid to lead; he's much more comfortable as an observer, taking the measure of where the herd is going and then racing to be in front of it if it looks like there's credit to be taken and kudos to be given.

    He's the cook who, instead of greeting his guests with a menu of fabulous dishes he's going to make, asks everyone what they want, going back and forth from what this one wants to what that one wants, afraid to just pick something and sell the hell out of it to the others.  He ends up with a mish-mosh of flavors and cuisines that don't go together, and then wonders why no one's enjoying their meal.

    It's pretty much plucking on my last nerve.


    Parent

    Yeah (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 02:22:09 PM EST
    it's getting on my last nerve too. I think your statement the other day about Obama's personal psychodrama being played out in the WH was spot on. I'm sick of him constantly going after the approval of abusers and then turning around and abusing others.

    Parent
    I'm not sure he is afraid to lead (none / 0) (#49)
    by BackFromOhio on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 05:50:49 PM EST
    or just always caves in to the wishes of those who make the greatest contributions to political campaigns.  

    Parent
    And on cue (none / 0) (#7)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 10:38:32 AM EST
    Obama pushes back:

    "My number-one priority is making sure that we make the middle-class tax cuts permanent, that we give certainty to the 98 percent of Americans who are affected by those tax breaks," Obama said.

    Obama also said he remains opposed to a permanent extension of upper-income tax cuts:

    "I continue to believe that extending permanently the upper-income tax cuts would be a mistake and that we can't afford it,"

    It would be helpful is we all lined up to support him on this position.

    Parent

    If his number one priority is making (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by ruffian on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 11:11:29 AM EST
    sure the middle class tax cuts do not expire, then you are right, he might as well push through an extension of all the tax cuts right now. He does not say where raising taxes on the wealthy are on his priority list - I suspect they are way down the list.

    His priorities do not happen to align with mine. I'm a tax and stimulate liberal, he is not. So I don't think I'll be lining up anytime soon.

    Parent

    Are you a plant, or just (1.00 / 1) (#8)
    by observed on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 10:41:40 AM EST
    plain stupid??
    The absolutely clear reading of what Obama said is that he favors extending the tax cuts.
    Read the rest of the comments today.

    Parent
    Stop with the insults (none / 0) (#11)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 10:45:52 AM EST
    Sorry,you're right. (none / 0) (#47)
    by observed on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 05:25:30 PM EST
    I hope it holds up (none / 0) (#10)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 10:45:30 AM EST
    Holds what up? (none / 0) (#29)
    by masslib on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 12:56:30 PM EST
    He's moved the goalposts to a non-real debate about which tax cuts will be made "permanent" versus the prior legitimate debate of which would be extended at all.  Surely, you know that.

    Parent
    Permanent v. Non-Permanent (none / 0) (#31)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 01:02:04 PM EST
    really means "before the next election or after th next election".

    You know that. It's just that no one on either side can say that.

    Parent

    That's "pushing back"?!? (none / 0) (#53)
    by Yman on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 08:17:05 PM EST
    He's going to give them an extension to make a deal, then claim victory because it's not "permanent".

    "On cue", alright.

    Parent

    If you believe that (none / 0) (#9)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 10:45:08 AM EST
    then you are right - he should capitulate now and give the GOP what they want.

    Of course, after that, to be "fiscally responsible," he'll have to cut spending, reducing aggregate demand and sending the economy into a worse recession.

    Then Obama loses in 2012 and that will be that.

    Unlike you, I do not believe allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire is a bad move. In fact, I think it would be the opposite.

    Tax cuts are not stimulative. I understand the "who is for the middle class" rationale for Obama's stance on middle class tax cuts. It makes sense politically. But it is not good policy - precisely because tax cuts breed spending cuts.

    My view is simply different than yours, and Obama's maybe.  

    Parent

    Definitely Obama should extend the tax cuts (none / 0) (#14)
    by MO Blue on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 11:09:07 AM EST
    for the wealthy, spend a few trillion more to stay in Afghanistan with increased troop levels until past  2014 and cut Social Security and Medicare benefits to pay for it. The reverse Robin Hood effect will be very beneficial to the poor and the middle class. To paraphrase Krugman, janitors will love to work longer, will love trying to survive on   reduced benefits when their body finally give out, so that the mega rich can buy a few more homes in exotic place and a few more yachts. :-(

    Parent
    ABG (none / 0) (#18)
    by lilburro on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 11:22:52 AM EST
    what do you think is going to happen?  Permanent extension of all cuts, temporary extension of all cuts, or decoupling?

    Parent
    How many votes? (none / 0) (#55)
    by christinep on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 09:58:21 PM EST
    Explain why the Democrats do not have the votes to pass an extension of the middle-class tax cuts only in the lame duck Congress? When the hot spotlight is on (as it will be in December), who precisely will vote against or take any noticeable step against that extension? Yes, it is hardball.

    Parent
    Evan Bayh will vote against it (none / 0) (#56)
    by shoephone on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 10:34:00 PM EST
    Did you not read his NYT op-ed piece? He is dead set against decoupling the tax cuts.

    Well, (none / 0) (#57)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Nov 13, 2010 at 08:05:48 AM EST
    this is what you get when you have millionaires in congress. They are just interested in serving themselves and no one else.

    Parent