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    When is DOJ required to defend federal appeal? (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by robrecht on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 05:52:56 PM EST
    Not a lawyer so I appreciate your patience on this question.  

    To what extent is the DOJ obligated to defend federal laws that are challenged in court?  

    For example, when Judge Virginia A. Phillips issued an injunction against the enforcement of DADT this week, most people are expecting DOJ to appeal.  The NYT said, "The Department of Justice, however, is required to defend laws passed by Congress under most circumstances."

    Are there specific circumstances that require DOJ to appeal or is it just the traditional practice that is usually followed?

    Thanks in advance!

    I have never seen a statute that requires (5.00 / 2) (#23)
    by Peter G on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 07:55:19 PM EST
    the Atty General to take an appeal from a decision holding a federal statute unconstitutional.  (And no other department of government -- such as the Army or Defense Dept. -- can take an appeal if the AG declines.) Nor can an appeal be taken by the local U.S. Attorney against the advice of the Attorney General.  That said, the strong tradition is for the Dept. of Justice to defend the constitutionality of Congressional action if it is reasonably possible to do so on a non-frivolous legal basis, regardless of the President's political position on the wisdom or desirability of the legislation.  

    Parent
    Thanks (none / 0) (#30)
    by robrecht on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 08:53:44 PM EST
    I suspected it was more a matter of tradition rather than specific circumstances.  The other stuff is interesting too.  Thanks.

    Parent
    When Prop 187 passed in CA (none / 0) (#34)
    by Harry Saxon on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 10:05:18 PM EST
    It was tied up in the courts for so long that Gray Davis became Governor and dropped the appeal process in the Federal Courts, so something similar could take place on the Federal level as well.

    Parent
    Yes ... (none / 0) (#40)
    by robrecht on Fri Oct 15, 2010 at 08:00:34 AM EST
    And Ahnald didn't even contest the challenge to Prop 8.

    Parent
    What a governor or state Attorney General (none / 0) (#45)
    by Peter G on Fri Oct 15, 2010 at 09:04:07 AM EST
    must do in an analogous situation involving a state law -- or traditionally will do -- is not necessarily the same from one state to another, nor the same as what the Attorney General (or President) of the United States will do vis a vis a federal law.  Nor are a state attorney general's duties (or political considerations) necessarily the same with respect to defending legislation as they are vis a vis defending a ballot initiative that passes.

    Parent
    Um, in CA (none / 0) (#47)
    by Harry Saxon on Fri Oct 15, 2010 at 09:27:17 AM EST
    a ballot measure that passes is identical to legislation passed and signed into law, so your distinction is one without a difference.

    Parent
    The NYTimes (none / 0) (#38)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 11:31:12 PM EST
    screws up the details AGAIN.

    Parent
    How did they rescue the Chilean miners? (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 05:54:01 PM EST
    Juan by Juan.

    Job offer to former footballer, Franklin Lobos, (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by MO Blue on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 06:05:18 PM EST
    who was one of the Chilean miners rescued yesterday.

    Chile's football federation said it would offer a job with its youth teams to Franklin Lobos, a former national team player who had later found himself driving a taxi to make ends meet before he was caught in the mine collapse. AP

    That job offer which would allow Lobos to do something he truly loves could provide benefits long after the fame fades away. Article that also goes into several of the offers made to the miners.

    While the article quotes Manuel Gonzalez, the first rescuer down and the last to leave, on how various miners were positive leaders, it did not quote what Gonzales said to Chile's President when he returned to the surface. Manuel Gonzales understands what it means to speak truth to power and stated that the president needed to take action to ensure that it never happened again.

    Why does it take something like this... (none / 0) (#24)
    by Dadler on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 07:56:42 PM EST
    ...giant things, tragedies, rescues, to make us treat each other and appreciate each other as we should every day.

    Human condition, I suppose. But we could learn a simple lesson about the power of the real human(e) economy that holds up any currency.

    Parent

    Question for the lawyers who (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by MO Blue on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 06:30:04 PM EST
    contribute here.

    Obama's DOJ applied for stay on Judge Phillips DADT ruling, to be followed by an appeal 2.)even as the DOD says it will abide the judges' ruling.

    How will this work if based on the DOD's statement that they will abide by the judges' ruling, today gay servicemen/womenn announce that they are gay and tomorrow the DOJ obtains the stay and this judges' ruling is overturned in the appeal process? What happens to the gay servicemen/womenn?


    Servicemembers Legal Defense Network (5.00 / 3) (#25)
    by Peter G on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 08:02:37 PM EST
    ... the leading national organizing and counseling group on DADT ... is advising members not to rely on the injunction and not to risk coming out in the military in this interim period.  

    Parent
    It will, however (none / 0) (#39)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 11:34:57 PM EST
    I think, put an immediate stop to any discharge proceedings that are currently under way.

    Parent
    Thanks for posting that (none / 0) (#46)
    by jbindc on Fri Oct 15, 2010 at 09:04:09 AM EST
    My friend Trevor is the posted "press contact" for SDLN.  I'll have to let him know that his words are getting out!

    Parent
    Interesting question.... (none / 0) (#21)
    by NealB on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 07:27:05 PM EST
    ...if gay servicemembers come out while DADT enforcement is halted by court ordered injunction, then the injunction is stayed and enforcement starts up again, will those servicemembers that came out during the injunction immediately be discharged for telling? Or are they safe, like the bubble marriages in California?

    Also, is the stay Obama has requested effective from the time he asked for it, or from the time the court grants it?

    Parent

    Also... (none / 0) (#22)
    by NealB on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 07:29:50 PM EST
    ...what if, say, 30,000 servicemembers wrote letters to their COs right now saying that they're gay?

    Parent
    Probably (none / 0) (#43)
    by jbindc on Fri Oct 15, 2010 at 08:57:16 AM EST
    It's not just DADT.  The UCMJ strictly prohibits "homosexual conduct" (which is a much broader definition than you think - it includes things like saying, "I am gay.")

    The UCMJ will also have to changed.

    Parent

    Latest news on the health insurance legislation (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by MO Blue on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 06:36:03 PM EST
    Judge: Suit over health overhaul can go to trial

    PENSACOLA, Fla. (AP) -- Crucial pieces of a lawsuit challenging the Obama administration's health care overhaul can go to trial, with a judge ruling Thursday he wants to hear more arguments over whether it's constitutional to force citizens to buy health insurance.

    In a written ruling, U.S. District Judge Roger Vinson said it also needs to be decided whether it's constitutional to penalize people who do not buy insurance with taxes and to require states to expand their Medicaid programs. Another federal judge in Michigan threw out a similar lawsuit last week.



    All Sorts of Sports (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 10:16:05 PM EST
    A lost (and therefore unpublished) early work from Dr. Seuss up for auction.

    This is an eye-popping find, a Seuss book in its earliest stage, rough Seuss draft, an abandoned project not only never before seen on the market but never before seen or heard of, period.

    Sure wish I still had all of my old Dr. Seuss first editions...


    health care (none / 0) (#1)
    by 1jpb on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 05:08:14 PM EST
    Is it true that health care reform didn't have a severability clause, and therefore the entire thing will go away if any part of it  (e.g. the mandate to buy insurance) is tossed out by the SCOTUS?  

    You mean (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 05:31:32 PM EST
    health insurance reform.  And as an individual insuree whose rates have gone up 25% and coverage has gone down, GREATLY becuase of the insurance reform, I'm keeping my fingers crossed that what you're saying is true.

    Parent
    There is a severability provision (none / 0) (#16)
    by christinep on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 06:44:35 PM EST
    Have you been following... (none / 0) (#20)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 07:25:24 PM EST
    ...the latest on Buck?  

    The whole thing just makes me so angry.  Putting one's personal believes and biases before the law and the rights of a victim?  How anyone can support this man for any office, much less US Senator, really baffles me.

    I hope Jeralyn posts on it--given her unique POV.  There's been a lot of disagreement on whether a recording made by the victim of the suspect admitting to the crime is admissible in court and I'd love to know the answer to that.  

    Parent

    Someone said to me at a political gathering today (none / 0) (#29)
    by christinep on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 08:48:07 PM EST
    words very similar to yours. We also shared our conclusion that Ken Buck either resembles or is a misogynist.
    While I haven't delved into questions about whether the case was worth prosecuting or not, nevertheless it does seem clear that Buck's public comments during that time suggest a derogatory view of women in alleged rape (or date-rape) situations. Buck appears to be dismissive of the woman out-of-hand.
    Think about his earlier stump conduct with erstwhile Republican opponent Jane Norton (and I certainly am no fan of Norton & her positions.) As another indicator of an attitude, Buck played the macho cowboy role with his s***-kicking boots in mocked contrast to Norton's heels.
    Then, of course, there is the absolutist Buck position as to stem cell research, abortion, etc.

    It is sad that this guy may be getting a bit of a pass during our cyclical iteration of a "throw the bums out" election. And, replace them with what, by the by.  It is sad because this stuff is just the tip of the iceberg.

    Parent

    He's a real piece of work... (none / 0) (#32)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 09:27:02 PM EST
    ...that's for sure.  A dangerous, radical one at that.  

    Just like Mike Rosen and his "let's hope someone hijacks an Iranian airliner and crashes it into the NY masque" supposed "joke".  Lots to get my blood pressure up this week...

    On a lighter note--a political event, eh?  Probably wasn't the Congressional debate down in Pueblo, so I'm guessing it was to see a certain out-of-town VIP?  If so, are you fired up?

    Parent

    Rosen is another one, indeed (none / 0) (#50)
    by christinep on Fri Oct 15, 2010 at 01:38:15 PM EST
    As for blood pressure: It is hard to keep it down to normal these days.
    P.S. I am "fired up."

    Parent
    I don't think that's right (none / 0) (#36)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 11:28:12 PM EST
    At least, McCollum and the other GOP AGs have been crowing for months that it doesn't and that if any part of their legal challenge succeed, the whole law goes down and will have to be redone.

    Parent
    I believe that they are wrong (crowing aside) (none / 0) (#49)
    by christinep on Fri Oct 15, 2010 at 01:35:25 PM EST
    here's something (none / 0) (#51)
    by CST on Fri Oct 15, 2010 at 01:44:29 PM EST
    that I think might answer your question.  Link.

    No the clause was not included.  But it might not matter anyway.  It's a good article, also talks about the fact that a lack of such a clause might have been intentional, as they consider the mandate critical to the other regulatory changes.

    "During the legislative process, the House version of health care reform included a severability clause at several points, but that clause was not in the version the House passed. The Senate bill never included such a clause. ... . In any case, the bill Obama signed did not have the clause."

    but...

    " "On numerous occasions the Court has `severed' an unconstitutional provision from legislation even though Congress omitted a severability clause. In 1996, for example, the Court held: `Although the 1992 Act contains no express `severability clause,' we can find the Act's `severability' intention in its structure and purpose.'"

    Parent

    Thank you for setting the record straight (none / 0) (#52)
    by christinep on Fri Oct 15, 2010 at 07:15:56 PM EST
    Obama losing support of college students? (none / 0) (#2)
    by Cream City on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 05:20:46 PM EST
    So say an AP poll.  How that may have impact on states where Dems rely on high turnout of 18-to-25-year olds will be interesting.  To wit: Wisconsin, second-highest in the country for young-voter turnout for several elections now (midterms as well as presidential years).

    could that be why he's now (none / 0) (#7)
    by nycstray on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 05:59:07 PM EST
    tweeting? twittering? whatever it's called?

    O.2.0 . . . oy.  ;)

    Parent

    let me revise that . . . (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by nycstray on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 06:00:05 PM EST
    Obama 2.Oy  {grin}

    Parent
    How is Feingold with that age group? (none / 0) (#17)
    by christinep on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 06:45:45 PM EST
    Haven't seen polls on that (none / 0) (#27)
    by Cream City on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 08:32:33 PM EST
    here.  And as has been discussed here in past, the national pollsters tend to know so little about Wisconsin -- its voter registration laws, its high level of voting by the young'uns, etc. -- that they are not as useful as they may be for other states.

    Parent
    re polls (none / 0) (#31)
    by DFLer on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 09:10:50 PM EST
    heard mention on tevee by a vote latino spokeswoman, how polls don't reflect certain constituencies because those constituencies have cell phones only and are therefore not reached by pollsters...certainly true of the yutes.

    Parent
    This poll linked (none / 0) (#33)
    by Cream City on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 09:51:58 PM EST
    did keep calling until totals were reached for each demographic category.  Now, there still can be other design flaws, of course. . . .

    Parent
    FarveFAIL... (none / 0) (#4)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 05:50:15 PM EST
    ...or cosmic retribution for his alleged transgressions?

    An interesting read--Rolling Stone on Obama

    Yeah (none / 0) (#10)
    by squeaky on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 06:13:23 PM EST
    But he was so mean..... lol

    Not so bad from such an "empty suit" who loathes women, gays, seniors, whites, liberals, etc..

    Parent

    Ha! That's what Favre gets (none / 0) (#13)
    by Cream City on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 06:31:45 PM EST
    for wearing lavender shorts.

    Parent
    It is definately what he gets... (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 07:12:17 PM EST
    ...for being a show-off and trying to catch the ball with one hand.  

    Parent
    Well, the other hand (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by Cream City on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 08:30:36 PM EST
    probably was holding the camera to take another picture of his. . . .

    Parent
    I heard what really happened... (none / 0) (#28)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 08:43:19 PM EST
    ...was that Deanna showed up at practice.  The Viking were so impressed, they signed her on the spot.  

    Coach Chilly was heard to say "we finally got a Farve that can hit what they're aiming for".

    Parent

    As for the RS article (none / 0) (#14)
    by Cream City on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 06:34:45 PM EST
    I will have to have some more kool-aid to get past this sentence, which stopped me on the first take:

    The public option? A praiseworthy bargaining chip in the push for reform.

    There is so, so much incorrect in that sentence alone.

    Parent

    Saw a blurb on the (none / 0) (#11)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 06:16:51 PM EST
    flat-screen Tv in our firm's reception area late this afternoon - perpetually tuned to CNN - and it said something along the lines of: "VP says it's Obama/Biden in 2012."

    So, I checked the website, and apparently, that is what it said:

    While President Obama and his top aides have repeatedly said they're not even thinking about the 2012 campaign yet, Vice President Joe Biden revealed that they actually are considering it at least long enough for Obama to have recently asked Biden to run again as his running mate in two years.

    A senior White House official confirmed to CNN the accuracy of the quotes Biden gave this week to The New York Times, but downplayed the significance of the comments by saying it's an "accepted fact" that Obama is likely to run for re-election again.

    And after days of overheated media speculation about whether Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton may replace him on the ticket, the senior White House official said Biden was merely being forthcoming about a very brief conversation he had with Obama about their possible future plans.

    "I tell you what, there's real trust, that's why he's asked me to run again," Biden told the New York Times. "Look, he said, 'We're going to run together, are you going to run?' I said, 'Of course, you want me to run with you, I'm happy to run with you.'"

    Joe just can't stand it, I guess, all this speculation about Hillary, so he interrupts Obama's recent navel-gazing - currently on display in the NYT - to tell the world that yes, he is still the man!

    You'd think Joe would defer to Obama to make news like this, but maybe Joe's not been feeling relevant enough, so he decided to grab some media attention.

    It's like Frick and Frack.

    Speaking of which, it also turns out that Woodward's source for the Hillary rumor was none other than Mark Penn...

    It turns out that by his own acknowledgement, Woodward's claim was not based on inside information from the current White House, but instead came from a relatively old conversation he had with Mark Penn, one of Secretary Clinton's political advisers, for the journalist's new book "Obama's Wars."

    "Well I said it's on the table but you know, it's like, you know, a book's on the table, you may read it in the summer," Woodward told Foreign Policy magazine.

    Susan Glasser, editor of the magazine, pressed Woodward, "But you're not saying you have any independent knowledge of sources telling that right now President Obama is contemplating such a thing."

    "No, of course not," said Woodward.

    [shaking head/rolling eyes]

    Well Woodward even if your book is the only one (none / 0) (#18)
    by ruffian on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 06:49:10 PM EST
    on the table, I'm not reading it

    Yeah, Biden may have just singlehandedly sucked any interest out of the Dem half of the 2012 race. Guess he thought 2008 was exciting enough.

    Parent

    Amusing Tweet (none / 0) (#37)
    by MO Blue on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 11:29:04 PM EST
      karlfrisch

    in fairness, after debate o'donnell said she disagreed with little known scotus ruling of glenda v salem. #desen link


    Im finding the push (none / 0) (#41)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Oct 15, 2010 at 08:19:58 AM EST
    to appeal the DADT ruling with a "caveat" interesting.  

    people are saying what the administration should, and possibly may (I never hold my breath anymore), do is appeal it and say to the court "we are appealing it because it is what we are supposed to do and we do not think one federal judge should make a decision like this for the whole country but we think it is unconstitutional and we are not going to argue in support of it.  we will leave that to the 'friends of the court'".

    this, I think, would be fairly brilliant.  and it would satisfy a lot of people.  like me.

    Pastor Terry Jones ... (none / 0) (#42)
    by Yman on Fri Oct 15, 2010 at 08:31:45 AM EST
    I've also (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by CST on Fri Oct 15, 2010 at 09:03:32 AM EST
    never burned a Quran.

    Where's my car?!?!

    Parent

    The squeaky wheel... n/t (none / 0) (#48)
    by lilburro on Fri Oct 15, 2010 at 09:41:21 AM EST